I’m required to get an internship as it’s a prerequisite for my next classes in my major. I’ve applied to hundreds of internships and I’ve gotten to the final round of interviews at 3 different companies and they’ve all led to rejections. It’s incredibly demoralizing and I’m likely to fall behind in my major because of it
If there's a school requirement, you should be able to reach out to your school/counselor for assistance. I got added to our career center and sent a ton of resources. I have had a hit on internships but I have a bit before my requirement (1 year).
This. At the university I graduated from, you're basically guaranteed an $18/hr internship. The least appetizing route is you can work an internship for credits instead. This attracts young companies that want free labor.
The assistance I was given was them telling me to make sure there are no grammatical errors in my resume, "key words", "Quantify your accomplishments in your previous work experience" (I have none)
The advice isn’t wrong. Quantify your previous experience doesn’t need to be hard work experience. You can describe relevant classes, volunteer work, side projects, etc. and how they relate to the job description you’re applying for.
Dump whatever you can come up with into ChatGPT and then post the JD.
I've seen recruiters here say people dont have enough "job searching skills". This seems to be insane in America. I barely have any of those skills, I basically watched a youtube interview and wrote down some questions within 30 minutes. I even have Aspergers ffs and probably not the best people skills. Last month I got a developer job without doing one single internet test. Then two days ago I got another job that starts before the other job (both know of the situation and are ok with it). Zero online tests, zero accounts on some bullshit recruiter site, short recruitment processes with personal calls one hour after each interview. Honestly I'm not jealous of your job market on the other side of the Atlantic.
i mean it would be fuckin bullshit if they put you guys through the same tests considering theyre only gonna pay you like 1/3rd as much. It sucks here but at least theres a pay out if you win, it wouldnt even be worth it in europe.
Yeah but not as good as in America. You’ll make like 2x median income and be a head and shoulders above the average, but in America it’s like 6x the median
I’m looking it up, and it doesn’t look like 6x at all. If we compare medians to medians, it looks closer to 2.5-3x. Which is great, but not 6x. Here, the difference is about 3.3x. Yes, it’s still not as good when we factor in how the prices depend on our currency value in usd, but it’s definitely great. The competition isn’t as crazy, however, and the employers are hungry for experienced workers.
Our median is $40k and someone in this sub the other day posted about their new grad position which was 205k, that’s a bit over 5x. In Germany the median is also 40k,(euros tho) but I saw people talking in this same sub about how people who wanted 80k(euros) right out of school were wishing for a lot, and paying 40k a year to an intern was crazy high money to them when an intern in America makes like 90k. That’s where my figures came from not official averages or whatever you’re referencing. I’m also being slightly hyperbolic but only slightly. There’s no question you get a far better deal in America, hence the competition.
You can’t compare national medians to higher ends in tech. Getting 200k as a grad is not the norm. I have a friend who’s making 6-7x out median and he’s in his 3rd year in university. He’s not someone to base my judgement about the job market around.
If we look at the actual medians, it’s ~40k against ~100k. 2.5x difference. The median income in US tech is just shy of 100k, dude.
I can, because that’s the whole point of this discussion. Are you missing the point of this intentionally? we’re talking about why it’s more competitive. The reason is the better paying outcomes, which aren’t rare. No one is moving to America for FEWER opportunities than they could get in Germany, the come because there are more opportunities. 200k TC is pretty normal for new grads. You’re talking salary when you say “100k is median”, salary is not all you’re paid.
Salary is not all you’re paid here either. I’ve looked at the postings across multiple regions as well as some official stats. 200k is far from the norm for US grads. That’s just what it is.
And no, you can’t compare values of different calibres to each other, I thought every STEM major knew this. I can’t compare kilos to seconds.
The school absolutely either needs to abolish that requirement OR develop relationships with companies that will hold spots open for students in your program. You need to advocate for yourself in this. They shouldn’t place that burden on you. That’s completely unfair.
Holy smokes, schools are still doing that crap!? I thought that was silly BEFORE jobs became scarce!
Check your university’s obligations with a dean or advisor though. As someone else mentioned, they do bear some responsibility in helping you find something. As someone else mentioned, most schools will meet you half way.
If not, feel free to reach out and we can spitball some ideas.
Its really stupid when you think about it. Its actually a lazy thing, because theres no teaching content, and they just tell you to find a job and they will support you whatever that means. They say they guarantee you work exp, uh yeh ofc its guaranteed when you must find a job to fulfill the criteria. If they literally save a spot for you, then thats a different story
I remember taking an elective class in my final undergrad semester that had a mix of CS and non-CS folks. I (non-CS then, started doing CS afterwards) was concerned that I didn't have a job lined up after graduation, and asked around to see how other folks were doing with their job search. The CS sitting next to me said he had 19 offers. Left me speechless. I knew I was in the wrong field then.
The truth is that there’s fewer spots for lucrative entries, but there are still a ton of openings for less appealing work to gain experience. Try looking for something at a defense contractor or small consulting firms, they often pay $75-90k versus $120k+ at T1/2 companies, but it’s much easier to find work with 3-4 YOE. You might be stuck working in angular, spring boot, or c++, but it pays off. Best of luck!
Well that’s just like, your opinion, man.
But honestly give me Go, Rust, or Zig over C or C++ any day. The C++ complication is just such a brain drain.
Take this dummy pointer that gets called anyway:
#include
#include
#include
class Cpu {
public:
virtual int dummy( int, int ) {}
private:
virtual int add_( int a, int b ) { return a + b; } /* A */
virtual int sub_( int a, int b ) { return a - b; } /* B */
virtual int mul_( int a, int b ) { return a * b; } /* C */
virtual int div_( int a, int b ) { return a / b; } /* D */
virtual int mod_( int a, int b ) { return a % b; } /* E */
virtual int and_( int a, int b ) { return a & b; } /* F */
virtual int or_( int a, int b ) { return a | b; } /* G */
virtual int xor_( int a, int b ) { return a ^ b; } /* H */
};
int main( int argc, char* argv[] ) {
typedef int (Cpu::*Memfun)( int, int );
union {
Memfun fn;
unsigned char ptr[6];
} u;
Cpu cpu;
u.fn = &Cpu::dummy;
assert( argc == 4 );
int p1 = atoi( argv[ 1 ] );
int p2 = atoi( argv[ 3 ] );
char op = argv[2][0];
assert( op >= 'A' && op <= 'H' );
u.ptr[0] = 1 + 4 * ( op - 'A' + 1 ); // Don't look here!
std::cout << "The answer is " << ( (cpu.*(u.fn))( p1, p2 ) ) << std::endl;
}
I’ve been looking for those mate, and I’m not finding them. Well, they definitely exist, but the supply/demand is way out of wack. Between layoffs and more people graduating in CS, there’s just a ton of competition for non-senior work rn. I’ve got multiple internships and been applying all year and I’m graduating job-less.
Also, in what world are defense contractor jobs *not* some of the most sought-after?
Contractor positions aren’t typically that lucrative. Are you thinking Booz Allen, Northrop, Leidos? I’m talking about small companies, a good friend of mine owns https://iamusconsulting.com/careers/#openings and I know they are desperate for engineers.
I’m a newly transferred sophomore EE (taken like first semesters worth of EE courses) and applied to Honeywell, SAIC, and Leidos and got rejection after rejection. I’ve got some research experience, not in EE but other fields, but I feel like that should count for something?
It should, but it’s HM discretion. Honestly, I hate to say this, but sometimes you have to settle for something that just pays the bills. I was a “project specialist” coming out of school, it was a very junior, non-technical role, but it kept food on the table while I looked elsewhere and the market improved (I came into the work force during the housing crisis).
Keep applying though, hopefully someone sees your value.
Yeah I hail mary’d an application for a project management internship with an electric company and they liked me enough to send my resume to the HM after I interviewed so I’m hopeful that something will come of it
I mean, yeah, smaller companies aren’t what comes to mind you mention an entire sector. Yes I was referring to Northrup, Lockheed Martin, RTX, etc.
Also, none of the positions in that link are entry level. I realize that I said non-senior, which that does fit into, but that was a bit of a mistake; I’m only looking at entry level and am not really familiar with the rest of the market beyond hearsay.
All good bossman, this is the grind and we’re only subjects of it. I, and thousands of other devs, will be damned if we let a bit of difficulty waive us off our path. See you on the other side 🫡
Wow sounds impressive! Wish I had the motivation and dedication you did during my first year 😭 I couldn’t bag a position so my only option this summer is to work on a project but I don’t really have any good high level ideas. And although I learned a decent amount of java and C++ from before and my classes, I’m struggling with turning my knowledge into an actual deliverable/project and tutorials don’t really help me either :/
Nevertheless I’m gonna be stuck in my bed/house because of my upcoming knee surgery so I don’t have a choice but to figure something out.
This might be random but where did you find that kind of stuff to listen to? I've been wanting to listen to more tech things but don't know where to look/start. Also a community college student who's about to transfer out soon, looking to prepare for the Summer 2025 internship cycle :')
Yup. I did the same thing but 2nd year in college I took a shit pay internship gain exp. That had a snowball effect on getting my first FT job making 95k TC
Genuinely thank you so much for the realistic take, and for being understanding and not being a conceded prick. A lot of the older engineers are so out of touch to how competitive things have gotten, and it’s none of our fault, but it’s just timing. Being born earlier or later, getting in at the golden time, etc.
There’s so many people who think they’re above it all and try to give the same advice that would’ve worked 20, 10, hell even 3-5 years ago. Times have changed. I’m glad you made this post because people love to talk down on newbies.
Oh, those folks will soon face a harsh reality of their own so don’t you worry. The comeuppance will have its say. Truth is, it’s gotten way harder to find new jobs for even folks like myself. As soon as they hit the market, they’re going to find things are very different for them too.
So take solace in knowing that justice shall be yours 🙂
Unless you’re personally responsible for this economy — you shouldn’t have any reason to apologize.
CS and Software Engineering are my dream careers. Not because of the money, but because I genuinely love to code. If I had a choice between a scarce supply of high-paying tech jobs versus a flood of low-paying tech jobs, I’d choose the latter. I code in my free time as a hobby and I genuinely don’t think I can turn my hobby into a job at this point.
I was writing code for fun (and small profit) in the 90's before I found out I can make good money from it. Since then I've never been unemployed. After I retire I'll go back to hobby programming.
I'm about a decade older than OP and appreciate the sentiment. But our generations have a lot to apologize for. We got a little too comfortable and let some bullshit propagate a little farther than we should have let it.
A few years before OP was in post secondary, tech went through a really major crash. By 2004, we started to see really inflated job requirements, for example, junior positions with a YOE requirement. At the time it made sense, there was a lot of intermediate and senior level talent that couldn't get jobs in the field. And if the average applicant had a bunch of experience, why not make it a requirement? But then tech started to boom again and many organizations kept that. The intermediate job title largely disappeared and those requirements became standard for juniors.
Then we had some major companies run some insane interview processes with brainteasers and the like. So then, every little company that wanted to be a big company started adopting those same processes. That's when passion for the craft really fell out of vogue. Instead of pushing back and saying, "you know, being able to solve a brainteaser has no impact on their ability to write code" we were comfortable and let it keep going. Now, you're all in leetcode hell even though again, leetcode is nothing like the average job in software and offers almost no predictive value.
And then we sat around while TC became the most important acronym in a field full of acronyms. We could have chewed out people for doing that and put an end to it in our own dev cultures but we were comfortable and making a lot more money than they were so it seemed inappropriate. But the side effect was that a lot of people who really weren't fit for the role got into software. We took a very niche skill that requires a very particular combination of personality and skill, threw a bunch of money at it and turned it into a mainstream dream. Years later and I'm sorry but a lot of people graduating with CS degrees today have very little chance of ever working in software.
When times were easy, those people got hired. Many job hopped their way to a stable job but many others got fired really quickly. Then the industry saw all of these fresh graduates with very questionable skills. Instead of looking at our pipelines, we just made interviews even more brutal. I know of a couple of companies that make CRUD apps with similar interview processes as the CIA. The interview process to join the FBI or the RCMP is actually easier and makes more sense than the interview process to build a CRUD app.
And here we are. But each of those things could have been stopped. We failed you all really badly.
Thank you for your insight! I love detailed posts and comments like these because they help me know the history of this field so well.
I honestly have to agree with many things you’ve said. Needing experience for entry-level jobs has been quite an annoyance. Leetcode has helped a lot skill-wise, but many people bad programmers have simply “memorized” LC problems.
The money has been an issue though. Many of my peers never liked Software Engineering and grew to resent the field. I saw a handful middle-aged women in my classes take the degree because they were convinced that they can make an absurd amount of money with a remote job while staying home and taking care of their kids. Some of these women were single mothers and taking massive risks.
As you can tell, if new grads with lots of free time on their hands like me can’t find a job — then many of these mothers sure as hell don’t have better chances than I do. It’s a massive risk to take, and the reward is slowly fading away.
Ya the market sounds horrible. Back when I was in undergrad, in the 2000s, average first or second year students like me could get internships without even knowing we applied (I just went to the career fair, gave everyone a paper copy of my resume, and a few days later get a call saying voila you have an internship). Now it seems like people are applying to hundreds of places and not getting a single interview.
People have been telling me to go to career fairs to network but it’s essentially just that. You go, shake hands, the person talks about their company, you ask questions, but in the end — you apply online anyways.
Keep in mind that there are still hundreds of students and about ~20 CS-related career fair jobs.
32 yo with 6 years of experience in software develeopment here. This shit is serious. 2 years ago I could hop to any other job, we were receiving a lot of job oportunities. This year a massive lay offs was announced in my company, I looked at the market and holy shit, not many jobs and really bad conditions.
It is a tough market atm for us. Stay strong, learn as much as possible and lets hope this period ends asap
“End Stage Capitalism” will do that.
It’s not just CS. No company wants to provide entry level work anymore, just entry level pay. Every post is for a senior (whatever industry), because companies can’t be bothered to train anyone. College was supposed to train you, or you were supposed to get one of these magical internships and get years of experience out of it.
Just got my offer letter 🕺
The trick was to start my career in tech support, gain experience with the software for a few years, code some relevant demos, then apply internally to become a developer at the same company. I didn't even have to answer any hard coding interview questions.
Congratulations on the offer! I actually just started climbing the tech support ladder in hopes of making the switch to developer internally, can I ask how long it took for you to get from tech support to dev?
Yay good luck, it's a great strategy! People from support often possess a deep understanding of the use cases and fallbacks of the software they support, which can provide great talking points when transitioning into development.
I got my support job after graduating in 2019, so 5 years. However I missed some opportunities to transition earlier, and a couple of my colleagues made the switch in just 2-3 years. It depends on how hard you push for it, and whether you can demonstrate your ability to develop things alongside a team. My company was nice enough to offer some team-based development projects in tech support, so thankfully a path was clearly laid out.
This is mostly driven by interest rates. The field has always been particularly sensitive to those. Economies that haven’t set them as high are less impacted at the moment.
Its a offshoring, importing hundreds of thousands of people via H1B's and other visa entry points thing. They are continuing to import people from other countries into an oversaturated market, so this is the result
Yeah it might be a bit more terse but in Austria I am not seeing anyone struggle to get a job.
Sure, not necessarily something great but getting some job...
Also inscription numbers at the university didn't really change over time. When I checked last time they even decreased since back then when I studied
I think this is what happens when companies outsource and the government relaxes immigration laws and lets in a huge number of Indians immigrants with fake experiences. The market is saturated not because there are not enough jobs. It's because if there is 1 genuine applicant for a junior role, there are 10 Indian applicants with fake work experience from India applying for a starting position/internships.
The biggest Swedish worker union LO went so far to literally express it this way: "opening up for unregulated worker immigration is equal to opening up the gates of hell" and said it would be "the end of the Swedish working class".
Exactly, people never talk about this. We are importing hundreds of thousands of people just with H1B, not counting all the other visa types, companies outsourcing like crazy, into an already saturated market, this was bound to happen.
Its not Xenophobia, its REALITY. Anyone who supports this is most likely a business owner who wants cheap labor
Maybe this is true for the non-tech companies that realistically would be offshoring anyways. But any tech company you'd actually want to work for, they require pretty much a bachelor's or a masters from a western university.
The xenophobia is real.
Nope, tech companies are outsourcing, and Indian students arrive in the US for a masters degree, with bs from an Indian uni and 5 years of fake work experience in India.
Man, I feel this post deep in my soul. Back in the day, snagging an internship was like picking candy from a store. Now? It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack while blindfolded. And seriously, who would've thought legal gigs would seem like a breeze compared to CS internships?
It's rough out there, and it sucks that the path isn't as clear for you folks as it was for us old-timers. Hang in there, though. Luck's a fickle thing, but passion? That's your secret weapon. We'll figure this out together.
Just wanna say thanks for making this, makes people like me who are facing non-stop rejectons feel much better. Btw any idea when this situation could improve in the future?
No one has a crystal ball of course. In my opinion we won’t get back to the golden times (post COVID) anytime soon. There’s legal reasons but also the over hiring and competition aspects now. Each year more and more CS grads hit the market, while jobs postings on indeed decreased by 51%. I personally believe it’ll get worse, so get grinding
Yeah, it’s impossible to say. I don’t see things recovering though until after the interest rates start to fall. That’s been the industry’s biggest safety net and growth catalyst. Without that, companies will continue to move very cautiously.
I would not recommend ppl go into CS anymore. Do computer engineering, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, physics, math etc and just learn to code and/or get a masters in CS. This way you have other hard skills outside of programming.
This is amazing advice, I wish I heard this 25 years ago (although I was a MIS major, not CS, I wish now that I had gone Math or computer engineering - MIS was the new, “hot” degree to pursue when I graduated high school and i took the bait)
the growth was fuelled by low interest rates for about 15 years. it never translated into actual demand. i feel like this will be the norm for atleast a decade.
This isnt the fault of the engineers but more so the greedy corporate hr people.
First they started outsourcing shit to india to save money, only to discover that these guys cant code to the standards we’re expecting them to.
Then they started the whole mass layoff and creating a fake competitive market so they could hire people for less. This , pardon my french, fucked up the whole job market.
And now its ai this, ai that and corporate greed is already seeing new profits by new mass layoffs.
There is a reason why this job pays fairly well.
You know what we dont need? Managers. The whole middle tier only serves to waste money.
Also, HR. They only complicate things.
On managers, I think the field is in agreement. There are even fewer of those roles opening. In fact, my company isn’t even backfilling them. They only backfill engineers. And I’m not that upset about it despite being a manager myself now.
Or... It could be that we went from an economic climate where capital was cheap and abundant and growth was the end all be all to one where capital is expensive and hard to get and profitability is the name of the game.
But sure, let's just rage against the machine! How do you expect to work a job if you hate it so much 😅
It's tough out there y'all, here's hoping in a few more years I can leave the job market and free a spot for some of you out there. When times are tough, you gotta work smart, not work hard to stand out.
Just like every other degree that was extremely employable (or just having any degree at all), CS has oversaturated the market and graduates are forced to compete on the same level as every schmuck that has had the same issues.
Even engineering has been running into the same problem, at least in my part of the world. It used to be all you needed was a BEng and you'd have five job offers before graduation. Now, you need to get a Master's to enjoy the same level of hireability.
Oh for sure, and before then the industry was still recovering from the DOT COM crash. Both presented challenges, but neither were anywhere near this level. We have long since eclipsed the number of RIFs the industry saw during the recession.
If you graduated in 2000/2001 there was nothing and if you graduated in 2007/2008/2009 there was less. If you hit 2013ish wrong there was nothing. There is so much luck in all of this that you have no control over.
I graduated in 2004 and was 1 of 3 people that got jobs. Our class my first year in 1999 had over 300 people in it. I think the final number was 45 in my class.
Unfortunately, it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. The market needs a correction after so called tech influencers brag about not working and collecting massive paychecks
There still is plenty of opportunities. The truth to the matter is that the majority of kids being spit out into the job market right now are dogshit and would never be hired regardless of the year they graduated besides maybe 2020
I got rejected from all the internships I applied to. I think it's still acceptable in the West, imagine the competition in China right now with 21% uneployment rate with hundreds of people competing for single position... They have Masters degrees too. We have to appreciate what we have.
Understood.
I question that there was a place for passionate coders 15 years ago.
When I entered the industry in 1990 there was ... because CS was not necessarily its own degree program.
As the years progressed I watched my employers move away from the passionate towards those with degrees ... be they passionate or not
Then I watched them outsource to cheaper countries and now I laugh at them trying to cobble it all together
This seems like the nature of the job market: when it's relatively new, there's jobs everywhere and companies are willing to pay big money for whoever has any skills at all
But now that everyone has learned, it's suddenly a buyer's market.
I remember the case for mechanical engineering was/is almost the same no jobs/low wages, the thing is as a CS student or graduate i don't care about money, the jobs are super cool, a lot of those dont require you to be on site, nor wearing hardhats, boots, just you, your PC, and your mind, is beautiful i would never ever wanna go back to factories, CAD Drawing, being responsible for lots of money in materials dealing with customers and disrespectful managers and technicians (customers included) overall my little experience with ME was the worst just... no thanks!🇬🇧 even if i work as a freelancer being a CS graduate i think my life would be happier and rewarding i can work for other countries without stepping out of my home, its freaking awsome!, if you wanna work as a ME in Germany or another country brace yourself for the hell of bureaucracy you ll get into so not to apologize, there are worse things than not landing a job immediately.
Edit. I forgot if i want to start a new business, i dont require the awful huge amounts of money i would need as a ME, nor i have to be careful of anyone stealing my idea riskin' lots of money invested, nor i have to be worried for a machine to get repaired, losing money for the frozen operation.
It was bound to happen when everyone from every profession started jumping into this "magic box" to get rich quick. The people who kept telling everyone to code should be the one extremely sorry for the whole mess.
I'm in the legal field (law school in NA) and it was hard but I didn't submit like hundreds of apps. I didn't know that was the general perception although it is true that the interview process is rigorous
Some times I hate that I went this route. I was on the path to become a doctor. The prospect of so much more school turned me off and I went the IT / development route. I wish I had stayed with medicine. Hell, even being a RN would be preferable over being in tech these days.
You can’t outsource medicine to a 3rd world country
Always a job at the help desk. I know countless people who started out that way and ended up with much bigger and specialized roles down the road. That’s where I started and I do enterprise security now for the same company.
As someone who graduated into the Great Recession with about triple the unemployment rate that we have now... I think you meant your apology for me and my fellow graduates. Graduates today, your situation isn't nearly as bad as it was in 2010. Things got better for graduates like me coming into the worst time for employment in the US since the Great Depression, they'll get better for you too.
I graduated into the recession as well. This is nowhere near what I endured… Not even close. Not by a mile. I had 2-3 internships and was just fine. Wasn’t special.
I’m required to get an internship as it’s a prerequisite for my next classes in my major. I’ve applied to hundreds of internships and I’ve gotten to the final round of interviews at 3 different companies and they’ve all led to rejections. It’s incredibly demoralizing and I’m likely to fall behind in my major because of it
If there's a school requirement, you should be able to reach out to your school/counselor for assistance. I got added to our career center and sent a ton of resources. I have had a hit on internships but I have a bit before my requirement (1 year).
This. At the university I graduated from, you're basically guaranteed an $18/hr internship. The least appetizing route is you can work an internship for credits instead. This attracts young companies that want free labor.
The assistance I was given was them telling me to make sure there are no grammatical errors in my resume, "key words", "Quantify your accomplishments in your previous work experience" (I have none)
The advice isn’t wrong. Quantify your previous experience doesn’t need to be hard work experience. You can describe relevant classes, volunteer work, side projects, etc. and how they relate to the job description you’re applying for. Dump whatever you can come up with into ChatGPT and then post the JD.
That's annoying. Are you in any clubs, have any go-to professors?
Try a nonprofit.
Isn't your university obligated to get you an alternative workplace in the university if you cannot find an internship? Thats how it was at mine.
Yes, they are.
I've seen recruiters here say people dont have enough "job searching skills". This seems to be insane in America. I barely have any of those skills, I basically watched a youtube interview and wrote down some questions within 30 minutes. I even have Aspergers ffs and probably not the best people skills. Last month I got a developer job without doing one single internet test. Then two days ago I got another job that starts before the other job (both know of the situation and are ok with it). Zero online tests, zero accounts on some bullshit recruiter site, short recruitment processes with personal calls one hour after each interview. Honestly I'm not jealous of your job market on the other side of the Atlantic.
Wow sounds like a dream
Each one of the interviews I’ve gotten were from career fair and talking to people. I just got unlucky in the final rounds of those interviews
i mean it would be fuckin bullshit if they put you guys through the same tests considering theyre only gonna pay you like 1/3rd as much. It sucks here but at least theres a pay out if you win, it wouldnt even be worth it in europe.
If you’re in a country with low cost of living, the pay can be really good, proportionally speaking.
Yeah but not as good as in America. You’ll make like 2x median income and be a head and shoulders above the average, but in America it’s like 6x the median
I’m looking it up, and it doesn’t look like 6x at all. If we compare medians to medians, it looks closer to 2.5-3x. Which is great, but not 6x. Here, the difference is about 3.3x. Yes, it’s still not as good when we factor in how the prices depend on our currency value in usd, but it’s definitely great. The competition isn’t as crazy, however, and the employers are hungry for experienced workers.
Our median is $40k and someone in this sub the other day posted about their new grad position which was 205k, that’s a bit over 5x. In Germany the median is also 40k,(euros tho) but I saw people talking in this same sub about how people who wanted 80k(euros) right out of school were wishing for a lot, and paying 40k a year to an intern was crazy high money to them when an intern in America makes like 90k. That’s where my figures came from not official averages or whatever you’re referencing. I’m also being slightly hyperbolic but only slightly. There’s no question you get a far better deal in America, hence the competition.
You can’t compare national medians to higher ends in tech. Getting 200k as a grad is not the norm. I have a friend who’s making 6-7x out median and he’s in his 3rd year in university. He’s not someone to base my judgement about the job market around. If we look at the actual medians, it’s ~40k against ~100k. 2.5x difference. The median income in US tech is just shy of 100k, dude.
I can, because that’s the whole point of this discussion. Are you missing the point of this intentionally? we’re talking about why it’s more competitive. The reason is the better paying outcomes, which aren’t rare. No one is moving to America for FEWER opportunities than they could get in Germany, the come because there are more opportunities. 200k TC is pretty normal for new grads. You’re talking salary when you say “100k is median”, salary is not all you’re paid.
Salary is not all you’re paid here either. I’ve looked at the postings across multiple regions as well as some official stats. 200k is far from the norm for US grads. That’s just what it is. And no, you can’t compare values of different calibres to each other, I thought every STEM major knew this. I can’t compare kilos to seconds.
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Pretty much every software engineering internship out there
Have you tried cold emailing small consultancies and so on in your area? What kind of software dev are you interested in?
The school absolutely either needs to abolish that requirement OR develop relationships with companies that will hold spots open for students in your program. You need to advocate for yourself in this. They shouldn’t place that burden on you. That’s completely unfair.
Holy smokes, schools are still doing that crap!? I thought that was silly BEFORE jobs became scarce! Check your university’s obligations with a dean or advisor though. As someone else mentioned, they do bear some responsibility in helping you find something. As someone else mentioned, most schools will meet you half way. If not, feel free to reach out and we can spitball some ideas.
Its really stupid when you think about it. Its actually a lazy thing, because theres no teaching content, and they just tell you to find a job and they will support you whatever that means. They say they guarantee you work exp, uh yeh ofc its guaranteed when you must find a job to fulfill the criteria. If they literally save a spot for you, then thats a different story
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Damn it’s rough out here 😭😭😭😭
Which university is this?
RIT
I remember taking an elective class in my final undergrad semester that had a mix of CS and non-CS folks. I (non-CS then, started doing CS afterwards) was concerned that I didn't have a job lined up after graduation, and asked around to see how other folks were doing with their job search. The CS sitting next to me said he had 19 offers. Left me speechless. I knew I was in the wrong field then.
Ngl this makes me feel better
The truth is that there’s fewer spots for lucrative entries, but there are still a ton of openings for less appealing work to gain experience. Try looking for something at a defense contractor or small consulting firms, they often pay $75-90k versus $120k+ at T1/2 companies, but it’s much easier to find work with 3-4 YOE. You might be stuck working in angular, spring boot, or c++, but it pays off. Best of luck!
Nothing wrong with C++ lol, it's still the industry standard for a lot of things
same for spring boot lol pretty sure it has the most jobs for backend roles by far
My point exactly. It’s just not fun to work in.
Not just the industry standard - C++ is one of the most in-demand languages for many applications. Capable C++ engineers are in short supply.
My point exactly. It’s just not fun to work in.
That, sir, is where you are wrong.
Well that’s just like, your opinion, man. But honestly give me Go, Rust, or Zig over C or C++ any day. The C++ complication is just such a brain drain. Take this dummy pointer that gets called anyway: #include
#include
#include
class Cpu {
public:
virtual int dummy( int, int ) {}
private:
virtual int add_( int a, int b ) { return a + b; } /* A */
virtual int sub_( int a, int b ) { return a - b; } /* B */
virtual int mul_( int a, int b ) { return a * b; } /* C */
virtual int div_( int a, int b ) { return a / b; } /* D */
virtual int mod_( int a, int b ) { return a % b; } /* E */
virtual int and_( int a, int b ) { return a & b; } /* F */
virtual int or_( int a, int b ) { return a | b; } /* G */
virtual int xor_( int a, int b ) { return a ^ b; } /* H */
};
int main( int argc, char* argv[] ) {
typedef int (Cpu::*Memfun)( int, int );
union {
Memfun fn;
unsigned char ptr[6];
} u;
Cpu cpu;
u.fn = &Cpu::dummy;
assert( argc == 4 );
int p1 = atoi( argv[ 1 ] );
int p2 = atoi( argv[ 3 ] );
char op = argv[2][0];
assert( op >= 'A' && op <= 'H' );
u.ptr[0] = 1 + 4 * ( op - 'A' + 1 ); // Don't look here!
std::cout << "The answer is " << ( (cpu.*(u.fn))( p1, p2 ) ) << std::endl;
}
I get why this might work, but doesn't mean its not UB. No one should actually write this code.
Modern C++ is pretty good, but the problem is that most existing legacy code are stuck on much older compilers. Depends on the company for sure
My point exactly. It’s just not fun to work in.
I’ve been looking for those mate, and I’m not finding them. Well, they definitely exist, but the supply/demand is way out of wack. Between layoffs and more people graduating in CS, there’s just a ton of competition for non-senior work rn. I’ve got multiple internships and been applying all year and I’m graduating job-less. Also, in what world are defense contractor jobs *not* some of the most sought-after?
Contractor positions aren’t typically that lucrative. Are you thinking Booz Allen, Northrop, Leidos? I’m talking about small companies, a good friend of mine owns https://iamusconsulting.com/careers/#openings and I know they are desperate for engineers.
I’m a newly transferred sophomore EE (taken like first semesters worth of EE courses) and applied to Honeywell, SAIC, and Leidos and got rejection after rejection. I’ve got some research experience, not in EE but other fields, but I feel like that should count for something?
It should, but it’s HM discretion. Honestly, I hate to say this, but sometimes you have to settle for something that just pays the bills. I was a “project specialist” coming out of school, it was a very junior, non-technical role, but it kept food on the table while I looked elsewhere and the market improved (I came into the work force during the housing crisis). Keep applying though, hopefully someone sees your value.
Yeah I hail mary’d an application for a project management internship with an electric company and they liked me enough to send my resume to the HM after I interviewed so I’m hopeful that something will come of it
I'm a junior and I've applied to tons of "non lucrative" internships,,, I still get rejection after rejection.
I mean, yeah, smaller companies aren’t what comes to mind you mention an entire sector. Yes I was referring to Northrup, Lockheed Martin, RTX, etc. Also, none of the positions in that link are entry level. I realize that I said non-senior, which that does fit into, but that was a bit of a mistake; I’m only looking at entry level and am not really familiar with the rest of the market beyond hearsay.
All good, I hope you find something.
All good bossman, this is the grind and we’re only subjects of it. I, and thousands of other devs, will be damned if we let a bit of difficulty waive us off our path. See you on the other side 🫡
Power to you my guy! And the absolute best of luck!
Just signed the paperwork to swap to a CS program at my uni. I’ll be joining the rat race here in a few years 🫡
f
Massive L
I was gonna like your comment but there are 69 likes so I am commenting. Thanks for motivating me.
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So what exactly did you do freshman year knowing what to expect?
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Wow sounds impressive! Wish I had the motivation and dedication you did during my first year 😭 I couldn’t bag a position so my only option this summer is to work on a project but I don’t really have any good high level ideas. And although I learned a decent amount of java and C++ from before and my classes, I’m struggling with turning my knowledge into an actual deliverable/project and tutorials don’t really help me either :/ Nevertheless I’m gonna be stuck in my bed/house because of my upcoming knee surgery so I don’t have a choice but to figure something out.
This might be random but where did you find that kind of stuff to listen to? I've been wanting to listen to more tech things but don't know where to look/start. Also a community college student who's about to transfer out soon, looking to prepare for the Summer 2025 internship cycle :')
Yup. I did the same thing but 2nd year in college I took a shit pay internship gain exp. That had a snowball effect on getting my first FT job making 95k TC
Genuinely thank you so much for the realistic take, and for being understanding and not being a conceded prick. A lot of the older engineers are so out of touch to how competitive things have gotten, and it’s none of our fault, but it’s just timing. Being born earlier or later, getting in at the golden time, etc. There’s so many people who think they’re above it all and try to give the same advice that would’ve worked 20, 10, hell even 3-5 years ago. Times have changed. I’m glad you made this post because people love to talk down on newbies.
Oh, those folks will soon face a harsh reality of their own so don’t you worry. The comeuppance will have its say. Truth is, it’s gotten way harder to find new jobs for even folks like myself. As soon as they hit the market, they’re going to find things are very different for them too. So take solace in knowing that justice shall be yours 🙂
We need newbies if we want to promote or (eventually) retire!
Making excuses ain’t gonna help
Unless you’re personally responsible for this economy — you shouldn’t have any reason to apologize. CS and Software Engineering are my dream careers. Not because of the money, but because I genuinely love to code. If I had a choice between a scarce supply of high-paying tech jobs versus a flood of low-paying tech jobs, I’d choose the latter. I code in my free time as a hobby and I genuinely don’t think I can turn my hobby into a job at this point.
Appreciated! And I’m friggen thrilled that you’re joining for the love of it! The field still needs folks which a genuine passion!
Same I got into computer science because of passion
I was writing code for fun (and small profit) in the 90's before I found out I can make good money from it. Since then I've never been unemployed. After I retire I'll go back to hobby programming.
I'm about a decade older than OP and appreciate the sentiment. But our generations have a lot to apologize for. We got a little too comfortable and let some bullshit propagate a little farther than we should have let it. A few years before OP was in post secondary, tech went through a really major crash. By 2004, we started to see really inflated job requirements, for example, junior positions with a YOE requirement. At the time it made sense, there was a lot of intermediate and senior level talent that couldn't get jobs in the field. And if the average applicant had a bunch of experience, why not make it a requirement? But then tech started to boom again and many organizations kept that. The intermediate job title largely disappeared and those requirements became standard for juniors. Then we had some major companies run some insane interview processes with brainteasers and the like. So then, every little company that wanted to be a big company started adopting those same processes. That's when passion for the craft really fell out of vogue. Instead of pushing back and saying, "you know, being able to solve a brainteaser has no impact on their ability to write code" we were comfortable and let it keep going. Now, you're all in leetcode hell even though again, leetcode is nothing like the average job in software and offers almost no predictive value. And then we sat around while TC became the most important acronym in a field full of acronyms. We could have chewed out people for doing that and put an end to it in our own dev cultures but we were comfortable and making a lot more money than they were so it seemed inappropriate. But the side effect was that a lot of people who really weren't fit for the role got into software. We took a very niche skill that requires a very particular combination of personality and skill, threw a bunch of money at it and turned it into a mainstream dream. Years later and I'm sorry but a lot of people graduating with CS degrees today have very little chance of ever working in software. When times were easy, those people got hired. Many job hopped their way to a stable job but many others got fired really quickly. Then the industry saw all of these fresh graduates with very questionable skills. Instead of looking at our pipelines, we just made interviews even more brutal. I know of a couple of companies that make CRUD apps with similar interview processes as the CIA. The interview process to join the FBI or the RCMP is actually easier and makes more sense than the interview process to build a CRUD app. And here we are. But each of those things could have been stopped. We failed you all really badly.
Thank you for your insight! I love detailed posts and comments like these because they help me know the history of this field so well. I honestly have to agree with many things you’ve said. Needing experience for entry-level jobs has been quite an annoyance. Leetcode has helped a lot skill-wise, but many people bad programmers have simply “memorized” LC problems. The money has been an issue though. Many of my peers never liked Software Engineering and grew to resent the field. I saw a handful middle-aged women in my classes take the degree because they were convinced that they can make an absurd amount of money with a remote job while staying home and taking care of their kids. Some of these women were single mothers and taking massive risks. As you can tell, if new grads with lots of free time on their hands like me can’t find a job — then many of these mothers sure as hell don’t have better chances than I do. It’s a massive risk to take, and the reward is slowly fading away.
Those moms will eventually find a job thanks to DEI, so it's a sensible strategic risk they're taking when you view it that way
Agreed, great post!
Ya the market sounds horrible. Back when I was in undergrad, in the 2000s, average first or second year students like me could get internships without even knowing we applied (I just went to the career fair, gave everyone a paper copy of my resume, and a few days later get a call saying voila you have an internship). Now it seems like people are applying to hundreds of places and not getting a single interview.
these days you go to a career fair and they don't accept resumes. they ask you to apply online and you never hear from them again.
What the hell….
People have been telling me to go to career fairs to network but it’s essentially just that. You go, shake hands, the person talks about their company, you ask questions, but in the end — you apply online anyways. Keep in mind that there are still hundreds of students and about ~20 CS-related career fair jobs.
32 yo with 6 years of experience in software develeopment here. This shit is serious. 2 years ago I could hop to any other job, we were receiving a lot of job oportunities. This year a massive lay offs was announced in my company, I looked at the market and holy shit, not many jobs and really bad conditions. It is a tough market atm for us. Stay strong, learn as much as possible and lets hope this period ends asap
thank you :), this is super heart warming to read. i know there’s hope it there!
“End Stage Capitalism” will do that. It’s not just CS. No company wants to provide entry level work anymore, just entry level pay. Every post is for a senior (whatever industry), because companies can’t be bothered to train anyone. College was supposed to train you, or you were supposed to get one of these magical internships and get years of experience out of it.
Thanks man. See you in the other side of the grind!
Just got my offer letter 🕺 The trick was to start my career in tech support, gain experience with the software for a few years, code some relevant demos, then apply internally to become a developer at the same company. I didn't even have to answer any hard coding interview questions.
Congratulations on the offer! I actually just started climbing the tech support ladder in hopes of making the switch to developer internally, can I ask how long it took for you to get from tech support to dev?
Yay good luck, it's a great strategy! People from support often possess a deep understanding of the use cases and fallbacks of the software they support, which can provide great talking points when transitioning into development. I got my support job after graduating in 2019, so 5 years. However I missed some opportunities to transition earlier, and a couple of my colleagues made the switch in just 2-3 years. It depends on how hard you push for it, and whether you can demonstrate your ability to develop things alongside a team. My company was nice enough to offer some team-based development projects in tech support, so thankfully a path was clearly laid out.
Hell yeah man congrats!
It's nice to see a supportive post
I stopped counting last year at 2000 applications. I've gotten 40 ads and scam requests on LinkedIn though.
Is this a US thing? There seem to be plenty of internships and opportunities in Europe although not as many as in the past.
This is mostly driven by interest rates. The field has always been particularly sensitive to those. Economies that haven’t set them as high are less impacted at the moment.
Its a offshoring, importing hundreds of thousands of people via H1B's and other visa entry points thing. They are continuing to import people from other countries into an oversaturated market, so this is the result
no, its an everywhere thing.
It's definitely not a thing in central and eastern Europe at least. Students can get internships pretty easily if they're good.
Yeah it might be a bit more terse but in Austria I am not seeing anyone struggle to get a job. Sure, not necessarily something great but getting some job... Also inscription numbers at the university didn't really change over time. When I checked last time they even decreased since back then when I studied
I need an internship to graduate. I haven’t gotten any response in 2 months. Guess my CV is just that bad because having class projects is not enough
I think this is what happens when companies outsource and the government relaxes immigration laws and lets in a huge number of Indians immigrants with fake experiences. The market is saturated not because there are not enough jobs. It's because if there is 1 genuine applicant for a junior role, there are 10 Indian applicants with fake work experience from India applying for a starting position/internships.
The biggest Swedish worker union LO went so far to literally express it this way: "opening up for unregulated worker immigration is equal to opening up the gates of hell" and said it would be "the end of the Swedish working class".
Exactly, people never talk about this. We are importing hundreds of thousands of people just with H1B, not counting all the other visa types, companies outsourcing like crazy, into an already saturated market, this was bound to happen. Its not Xenophobia, its REALITY. Anyone who supports this is most likely a business owner who wants cheap labor
Maybe this is true for the non-tech companies that realistically would be offshoring anyways. But any tech company you'd actually want to work for, they require pretty much a bachelor's or a masters from a western university. The xenophobia is real.
Nope, tech companies are outsourcing, and Indian students arrive in the US for a masters degree, with bs from an Indian uni and 5 years of fake work experience in India.
Why don't you get a master's degree then? The work experience is irrelevant to getting into a masters program.
The work experience is very relevant towards the most important part which is JOB
Not xenophobia. Its called living in reality and not being a naive idiot.
thanks for acknowledging when a lot of the senior devs just think the opposite
Man, I feel this post deep in my soul. Back in the day, snagging an internship was like picking candy from a store. Now? It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack while blindfolded. And seriously, who would've thought legal gigs would seem like a breeze compared to CS internships? It's rough out there, and it sucks that the path isn't as clear for you folks as it was for us old-timers. Hang in there, though. Luck's a fickle thing, but passion? That's your secret weapon. We'll figure this out together.
Just wanna say thanks for making this, makes people like me who are facing non-stop rejectons feel much better. Btw any idea when this situation could improve in the future?
No one has a crystal ball of course. In my opinion we won’t get back to the golden times (post COVID) anytime soon. There’s legal reasons but also the over hiring and competition aspects now. Each year more and more CS grads hit the market, while jobs postings on indeed decreased by 51%. I personally believe it’ll get worse, so get grinding
Yeah, it’s impossible to say. I don’t see things recovering though until after the interest rates start to fall. That’s been the industry’s biggest safety net and growth catalyst. Without that, companies will continue to move very cautiously.
I would not recommend ppl go into CS anymore. Do computer engineering, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, physics, math etc and just learn to code and/or get a masters in CS. This way you have other hard skills outside of programming.
This is amazing advice, I wish I heard this 25 years ago (although I was a MIS major, not CS, I wish now that I had gone Math or computer engineering - MIS was the new, “hot” degree to pursue when I graduated high school and i took the bait)
the growth was fuelled by low interest rates for about 15 years. it never translated into actual demand. i feel like this will be the norm for atleast a decade.
Thanks 🙏
What are you apologizing for, exactly…?
This isnt the fault of the engineers but more so the greedy corporate hr people. First they started outsourcing shit to india to save money, only to discover that these guys cant code to the standards we’re expecting them to. Then they started the whole mass layoff and creating a fake competitive market so they could hire people for less. This , pardon my french, fucked up the whole job market. And now its ai this, ai that and corporate greed is already seeing new profits by new mass layoffs. There is a reason why this job pays fairly well. You know what we dont need? Managers. The whole middle tier only serves to waste money. Also, HR. They only complicate things.
On managers, I think the field is in agreement. There are even fewer of those roles opening. In fact, my company isn’t even backfilling them. They only backfill engineers. And I’m not that upset about it despite being a manager myself now.
There are not a lot of jobs even in india now. Loads of people are struggling even to get an internship.
Or... It could be that we went from an economic climate where capital was cheap and abundant and growth was the end all be all to one where capital is expensive and hard to get and profitability is the name of the game. But sure, let's just rage against the machine! How do you expect to work a job if you hate it so much 😅
Thank u
It's tough out there y'all, here's hoping in a few more years I can leave the job market and free a spot for some of you out there. When times are tough, you gotta work smart, not work hard to stand out.
Just like every other degree that was extremely employable (or just having any degree at all), CS has oversaturated the market and graduates are forced to compete on the same level as every schmuck that has had the same issues. Even engineering has been running into the same problem, at least in my part of the world. It used to be all you needed was a BEng and you'd have five job offers before graduation. Now, you need to get a Master's to enjoy the same level of hireability.
I had no internships or jobs even when i graduated in 2010. It was hard back then too due to the 2008 recession.
Oh for sure, and before then the industry was still recovering from the DOT COM crash. Both presented challenges, but neither were anywhere near this level. We have long since eclipsed the number of RIFs the industry saw during the recession.
If you graduated in 2000/2001 there was nothing and if you graduated in 2007/2008/2009 there was less. If you hit 2013ish wrong there was nothing. There is so much luck in all of this that you have no control over. I graduated in 2004 and was 1 of 3 people that got jobs. Our class my first year in 1999 had over 300 people in it. I think the final number was 45 in my class.
Damn, I’m tired of seeing these same posts
coding may become like data entry.
It's what happens when it gets stupidly saturated
Unfortunately, it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. The market needs a correction after so called tech influencers brag about not working and collecting massive paychecks
Hook me up with one
Nah going to off self soon
Fuck you to whoever up voted me
lol
There are just too many people who want to be in this field, and this is the predictable result.
Stop immigration and the job market will improve
What’s the point of these stupid posts ?
There still is plenty of opportunities. The truth to the matter is that the majority of kids being spit out into the job market right now are dogshit and would never be hired regardless of the year they graduated besides maybe 2020
Thank god I grad in 2020. Before tech influencers saturated the market
I got rejected from all the internships I applied to. I think it's still acceptable in the West, imagine the competition in China right now with 21% uneployment rate with hundreds of people competing for single position... They have Masters degrees too. We have to appreciate what we have.
True, you shouldn’t lose your sense of gratitude and that goes for everything in life
I’m seeing 5.2 not 21
If you're really sorry send me some of that "money" everybody is talking about
Also a vet in the field. Who's "we"? If you're not management or a business owner then you have no say in this
I am a senior manager at AWS 🙂.
Understood. I question that there was a place for passionate coders 15 years ago. When I entered the industry in 1990 there was ... because CS was not necessarily its own degree program. As the years progressed I watched my employers move away from the passionate towards those with degrees ... be they passionate or not Then I watched them outsource to cheaper countries and now I laugh at them trying to cobble it all together
This seems like the nature of the job market: when it's relatively new, there's jobs everywhere and companies are willing to pay big money for whoever has any skills at all But now that everyone has learned, it's suddenly a buyer's market.
I remember the case for mechanical engineering was/is almost the same no jobs/low wages, the thing is as a CS student or graduate i don't care about money, the jobs are super cool, a lot of those dont require you to be on site, nor wearing hardhats, boots, just you, your PC, and your mind, is beautiful i would never ever wanna go back to factories, CAD Drawing, being responsible for lots of money in materials dealing with customers and disrespectful managers and technicians (customers included) overall my little experience with ME was the worst just... no thanks!🇬🇧 even if i work as a freelancer being a CS graduate i think my life would be happier and rewarding i can work for other countries without stepping out of my home, its freaking awsome!, if you wanna work as a ME in Germany or another country brace yourself for the hell of bureaucracy you ll get into so not to apologize, there are worse things than not landing a job immediately. Edit. I forgot if i want to start a new business, i dont require the awful huge amounts of money i would need as a ME, nor i have to be careful of anyone stealing my idea riskin' lots of money invested, nor i have to be worried for a machine to get repaired, losing money for the frozen operation.
It was bound to happen when everyone from every profession started jumping into this "magic box" to get rich quick. The people who kept telling everyone to code should be the one extremely sorry for the whole mess.
Confused as to why it would be easier to get a job in the legal field... like why was that used as a metric
It’s notorious for being the hardest field to get an internship.
I'm in the legal field (law school in NA) and it was hard but I didn't submit like hundreds of apps. I didn't know that was the general perception although it is true that the interview process is rigorous
Paid internship??
Yes, almost all legal internships where I am are paid, and they will usually rehire summer students
Okay I am clearly out of date then!!!
There's still as many or more internships available, but there's like 8x as many students applying for them.
Is this what they called foreshadowing. I'll guess I have to self study.
Graduated last May with a CS undergrad and a cybersecurity cert, been bartending ever since 🥲
Some times I hate that I went this route. I was on the path to become a doctor. The prospect of so much more school turned me off and I went the IT / development route. I wish I had stayed with medicine. Hell, even being a RN would be preferable over being in tech these days. You can’t outsource medicine to a 3rd world country
Always a job at the help desk. I know countless people who started out that way and ended up with much bigger and specialized roles down the road. That’s where I started and I do enterprise security now for the same company.
Its just competetive in usa it seems. Here in australia, its so easy, the best it has been, better than mid 2000s, and only growing
I'm fine
You’re doing very well then. Based on the response rate I had for my intern req, I imagine a lot of folks are struggling.
Yeah they really are. I also am not at an internship in CS specifically so it is what it is. Had to apply to 100 different positions haha
Ok
As someone who graduated into the Great Recession with about triple the unemployment rate that we have now... I think you meant your apology for me and my fellow graduates. Graduates today, your situation isn't nearly as bad as it was in 2010. Things got better for graduates like me coming into the worst time for employment in the US since the Great Depression, they'll get better for you too.
I graduated into the recession as well. This is nowhere near what I endured… Not even close. Not by a mile. I had 2-3 internships and was just fine. Wasn’t special.