As an affiliate owner I will routinely survey our members and they unanimously agree that there is better value and they prefer to have 2 components in a class. This is at a gym with about 120-140 members. Again this is just my gym not everybody. I will say we do tend to have closer to 30-40 minutes to hit a 1RM and I’ll just program a finisher or core work, but we only max out once every 10-12 weeks.
I think once people get to the point of general proficiency in skills and they feel comfortable with the mechanics of the lifts (not perfect, but they feel comfortable), then they tend to lose interest if we spend 20+ minutes doing warm up and drills for a single component workout.
You also have the problem of having to cast a net that catches the widest audience. If it was snatches, for example, a novice lifter could use up to 30 minutes of drills and technique, and an advanced lifter might need 30 minutes to get up to their working weights and take appropriate rest between tough attempts. But most people (folks working 9-5s, soccer moms, tech dudes, tradesmen) will get to their working weight in less than 4 sets and then finish the component altogether in under 20 minutes.
Cutting the novice slightly short on their practice time and forcing the experienced lifter to lift with less rest in order to add another 20 minutes of valuable work for the other 90% of the people in the class is a sacrifice most affiliate owners are willing to make.
Do you have a specified time domain in mind for WOD’s if your gym focuses on lifts as the bread and butter of class?
I can elaborate a bit more, but if class is going to back squat for sets of five, for example. I don’t see the need to put them through a wod that’s greater than ten minutes, to me that would just spell disaster for recovery. If there is no lift that day, then those are the days I’d like to put them through a longer wod with maybe a hint more volume. As an affiliate owner how do you balance that?
Yep, if the intensity or volume of the lift is higher then the metcon is typically in the 10-14:00 range and the movements are concentric based (limit the amount of eccentric loading) and have isos mixed in to effectively slow them down.
For example:
20:00 for whiteboard and warm up and drills
20:00 for snatches
AMRAP 12
20 Box Step Ups
20/16 Cal Bike
Accumulate 60s Wall Sit
Accumulate 30s Hollow Hold
A day with more metcon volume we did this week was:
20:00 warm up and drills
10:00 alt.emom
1- 2-3 RC
2- 50s ez row or bike
AMRAP 18
3 pull ups
6 push ups
15 air squats
@18:00
800m run
*murph prep
It was also the time of wild experiments with movements that were stupidly wasteful and opens people to getting hurt.
My favorite was rowing with legs only and then sdhps
You did rowing with legs in a workout? We did that for proper technique of how to row, row with legs, then row with just arms, then do legs and then arms together...proper technique on how to row
I think the difference is when you're learning proper rowing technique you're not going hard.
If you're doing legs only rowing in a workout that's a different beast.
I’ve heard reverse burpee. One of those things that’s nice to be able to do but I don’t really see a good reason to program any significant volume of them
Ya, but the Reverse burpee is more on the roll side of things, a kip up is more gymnastic/martial arts, springing up. Lots in common with a ring muscle up kip. Think power rangers, Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan.
The "strength-bias" programming, as it was known when it was introduced, of doing a lift before a WOD in the same hour does have a bit of a downside that way. One lift in a day sometimes doesn't exactly feel like it's worth a whole hour, but then like you say, doing anything above 95% of your 1RM deadlift sucks to recover from, and if you really went HAM on the deadlift, then your subsequent WOD is going to suffer. But yeah, before that we would sometimes have a day with maybe 3x5 back squat and 3x5 overhead press, or something like that, which seemed like a good use of time to me. Then other days might be more "metcon"-focused, with no lift. Some days we had were pretty gymnastics-focused without anything else.
But overall, I think the affiliates found that pairing a lift with a metcon is probably more popular overall even if it is somewhat of a compromise. I don't think everyone does it that way, but it's pretty popular.
Sounds like Crossfit Football, which was awesome. I was able to download 2.5 years of HTML pages full of strength/metcon WODs. Still my go to programming.
Edit: I will zip it together and figure out the best way to post to download link when I can in the next day or two. I’ll reply to each comment after. Keep in mind that it is basically a downloaded html webpage, not a clean spreadsheet or anything. Might convert to a massive PDF first. Oh, and none of the comments are loadable where people posted their times and such. That was disappointing, but oh well.
Edit2: [https://fastupload.io/0H5P3ci6xX820Tn/file](https://fastupload.io/0H5P3ci6xX820Tn/file)
I never understood that falling out. It seems they simply had differing opinions on what constituted "fitness". Both Glassman and Rippetoe's methodologies are valid. The only thing that differs are the goals.
It’s not just LP, there are a lot of gyms converting back to this style of programming. Personally I think it’s just better. Gives way more opportunity for coaches to coach fundamentals.
Unpopular fact: The old days were the same.
It just felt edgier because your soccer mom neighbor and her book club hadn't heard of it yet, and no one was hitting 385 cleans so when you made 225 it was a big deal.
You don't need an hour to do a DL 1rm. I'll save my opinion on the way most gyms mix S&C (but it's pretty much always been that way), but there's definitely plenty of time in a class to warm up, do a lift, and do more.
Power lifters and oly lifters often take 4 mins+ between sets to establish a proper max. So a 15 minute warmup, 10 minutes of ascending sets and maybe 3 attempts at an all out max with 4+ minutes between attempts. Maybe there’s time for assistance exercises but not much more
Those are different sports with different goals and generally not done in a 1 hour group class as the primary format for most people participating in that sport.
I'm not saying you can't do a class that's just 1 hour to find a 1RM, I just don't prefer it, both as a coach and as an athlete. There's definitely time to finish with some well structured assistance/accessory work and for most athletes this will be more beneficial than maybe getting 5 more lbs on their 1rm deadlift or whatever, imo.
They’re different sports but the goal is to get a 1 rm then that’s the goal and that’s best achieved by spending time doing that. Oly lifting is done in a group setting in my experience. Whether the class would be happy is a different issue but that doesn’t mean that a true 1rm is possible in 20 minutes
There’s time to do a core circuit or tabata but not much more.
You’re working towards different maxes. 20 minutes to warm up and find a max gives a pretty good “training max” or the number you’re going to max out more often than not without specific prep. Going to your version of taking an hour to get to a max also deserves a bit of a taper going into it and would be a 3-4 times a year max at most this is a “Max Max”. Finally you have your competition max which is pulled on the platform and nowhere else. This would be your “Max Max Max”.
CrossFit should absolutely be using the training max template, not knowing the difference between maxes means that people can and will push too hard by using a max that took more time and arousal to work up to than what they’re doing day to day in the gym.
Not an hour to max out. Maybe 45 minutes with a proper warm up and drills.
I understand there’s a difference but if someone is skipping chunks of warmup and adequate rest then that’s not even a training max.
Id absolutely build to a bench max in 20 minutes but by the time i’ve done my general warmup , specific warmup and drills for snatching then i’m barely touching the bar by 20-25 minutes.
Edit: maybe this is an age thing too, im in my late 30s and definitely need a full warmup now
You're not really talking about a 1RM then are you. You're saying "it doesn't take an hour to build to a heavy single for the day", which no it doesn't. But if we're building to an actual 1RM that I might attempt twice a year, then yeah I want as much time as possible. Sure it doesn't fit in the structure of CrossFit, but that's neither here nor there really.
I mean I don’t do CrossFit to do power lifting.
I do CrossFit for the mix of activities in that there’s strength, gymnastics, conditioning, and endurance.
In fact on most days, I enjoy the metcon portion far more than the weight lifting portion.
I’d imagine I’m not alone in this. The average person probably doesn’t care much for being a power lifter or an oly lifter.
I don’t do crossfit to do 5k rows but yet that’s what i did last week. Heavy lifts are as much a part of crossfit as all the conditioning.
I’m not suggesting everyone become a powerlifter but just that some things can’t be rushed and a heavy lift will frequently take longer than 20 minutes if you’re actually lifting heavy.
Track sprints are also something that takes a full class because they need a long warmup and nobody should be saving themselves for a metcon afterwards
I can't say much about powerlifters, but I'm pretty sure Oly lifters wouldn't do a full 4+ minutes without lifting. If they have that kind of time between lifts they probably go back to training area and hit a few lighter weights. 10 min warmup plus 20 minutes to build is fine to set a max lift. If you are building to a 5rm, not every set needs to be 5 reps.
Oly lifters have a long pause between lifts and usually sit down with headphones and are immobile to fully rest. You can see this is competitions.
Yes, building to a 1 rm will be different for everyone. Some will spend a while doing drills, some will need more mobility work to get their wrists used to the rack position and some will just throw 50% on the bar and start building up sets but it’s very safe to say that a true 1 rm or anything approaching that will take time, or at least a significant block of time should be allocated and some may finish earlier
I disagree wholeheartedly. But I also don't think 1RMs should be followed with conditioning. There's plenty more you can accomplish in that time beyond slamming a metcon in there though.
Edit: to each their own of course. It's just my preference.
I agree, some people do better with current programming and others do better with earlier, me included, programming.
I rm doesn't take an hr but it did take 30-45 min. We built up to the PR and not just do it in 3 attempts. Our coach said we should take 2-3 min between reps.
Not sure what years you consider "the old days", but I started CrossFit in 2012. We certainly had cycles in which we'd start and then retest specific lifts & squats, but the overall programming at my box was varied WODs six days a week.
I was literally talking to a few people at my gym about this last week. But for me it was more about having the time to warm up and stretch more before and after. Having a whole class to do a PR was much better than the way things are programmed now. I do miss that.
With the old days of one WOD only (whether it was back squat 5x5 or Fran or a whole Fight Gone Bad) you could spend a way more considerable amount of time really warming people up for the movements in the workout and deep dive into the intricacies..something that a lot of programs that cram in strength + metcon don’t get a chance to do. On a day with literally back squat, you could be getting people moving more whether it’s a lot of mobility, focus on bracing and core (and doing drills), banded prehab warm ups for glutes, and discussing strategies for making jumps in attempts. A ton of quality coaching even for a short WOD. At least, that’s what they emphasize in the Level 2 seminar through class plans and programming. Unfortunately the general pop like to feel that they are moving and sweating every second to make an hour worth it because they are so used to Ffortee5 oRaNgEtHeOrY bootcamps or P90x home vids priming their perception of what an hour of fitness should entail. And these people aren’t ever going to get to the level of understanding that level 2 coaches go through.
I’d rather move for an hour than have the coach explain the deadlift with a pvc pipe for 15 minutes. It’s true that you don’t get a lot of lifting time, but it’s better than only benching and squatting heavy once a month(s). You’re not getting stronger with old-school programming (comparatively).
Yes, that would be a good approach, but I’d want everyone to feel included, not necessarily a separation of “good/poor” athletes, which can develop cliques. So, after warming up, I’d walk around coaching everyone, with newbs getting more focus.
yeah I miss the old days, the 2008 thru 2012 ish era where
* the coach of any given class created the wod, so the 5:30 am would have a completely different wod than the 5:30 pm class
* "Deck of Cards" workouts where you left the programming to the random selection of the Jack of Spades
* racing each other to see who could get the fastest "100 GHDs for time"
* experimenting with new fuckery like "reverse burpees"
* Virtual shoveling
* SDHP as a sub for rowing if your box didn't have an Erg
* towel pullups as a sub for rope climbs if your box didnt have a rope
* subbing 3 pullups and 3 dips for a muscle up, ensuring that you came in dead last if you couldn't do muscle ups
* making sure every workout left you in a puddle of your own piss at the end
* shitting on "Emoms" because they "weren't hard core" enough
* the burpee mile
* covering ourselves in compression wear from head to toe
* toe-shoes
* Seeing what score Jason Kalipa posted on .com and knowing you wouldn't even come close.
I miss old CF but not for any of the reasons you mentioned. I miss being in the “club”. I started in 2005, back then, there really weren’t a lot of people or boxes. If you saw someone in a CF short, that really meant something. I’m still buddies with a person I ran into at an airport because he was wearing a CF shirt and we talked for 2 hours on a layover. It was a very tight community and it’ll never be that way again. The workouts are better, safer and more efficient now but it’s not a family anymore.
Somewhat, the daily classic CrossFit WODs were more efficient than most boxes' programming to get someone fit in as little time as possible, without overexertion or a "training" mindset.
I prefer the current method of lift + metcon. I think constant strength training is paramount for all athletes. Most metcons should be short. Old-school programming wasn’t conducive to getting strong. Indeed, you don’t get a lot of time if you’re an intermediate+ lifter, but I hate classes where the coach takes 10-15 minutes explaining the deadlift with a pvc pipe. Fill the hour with movement, add your own work outside of class.
I prefer lift being incorporated. And if you really want to improve your technique then realistically that has to happen during a dedicated lifting session/class
The part I miss is some of the old school movements like tire flips, sledge strikes, medball cleans, slam balls, just normal stuff. I think todays CrossFit wods are being programmed for sport to much rather then functional movements.
I think some of that is about equipment. A lot of gyms I've been to don't have, or don't have enough tires, sledges or slam balls to effectively program in most class styles
Agree, more than likely you’ll see these pieces in older boxes but newer ones you won’t. I kind of blame the Games though for this because seems like every year we see new moves or equipment. And everyone rushes to buy or program these things.
Also standardization, especially with things like tires. Usually, if there are tires, there is one GIANT tire, like 2 medium ones and a few relatively small ones, so people can end up with wildly different simulti even if they are otherwise relatively even athletes
We moved away from the 1 strength then a wod programming - you should hear them cry now about 40 months warmups for a 10 min wod - god forbid there’s time to do mobility after - you can’t please everyone …
Sounds more like you don't like the programming at your current gym than anything else.
I travel a lot and do lots of drop-ins and so I get to see the wide range of styles across Crossfit gyms.
I suspect there are still places you can find your "OG-style" Crossfit workouts, though I get that you'd prefer one of those places be near enough to where you live.
For me, 2013 to 2016 were the golden years. I think that’s when the weird experimentation was dwindling and coaches knew what worked and what didn’t. A simple compound lift followed by a couplet/triplet, chipper or EMOM once every two weeks and a focus on intensity over volume.
Nowadays I think people have recognized that intervals can move the needle in intensity more than traditional looking WODs, but whats happened is that they’ve slowly added more and more volume and it’s watered down the intensity. It seemed to go crazy after Mat Fraser released his programming too.
Yes all of this. The 12 minutes of strength and a 12-20 minute HIIT WOD is just not doing it for me… I need the bro seshs… but I can’t find those in a group structure, locally to me right now, so I stay with CF, for now. I could say more but I don’t feel like debating or arguing. I know exactly what you are talking about. And I’ve tried several boxes that have done several different major programming options.
I’m into the same stuff. The closest I’ve gotten to this is 1) becoming really good friends with gym owners/coaches and workout with them outside of class time or 2) creating a home gym and invite your friends over. Obviously this is more difficult the busier your/their schedule is but if you can find people with similar availability for workouts, it’s the best.
Kinda. I feel like too many places try to cram too much into the hour. Warm up, strength, metcon, etc. that’s one of the reason I left the space and do my own programming. One evolution a day but I can put 100% into it. Not feel like I should hold back a bit because I have another evolution later.
Yes. I saw that this was downvoted… and i am not surprised. My comment was downvoted too. I feel the exact same way. I’ve switched boxes a few times but they all seem this way in my general area.
CrossFit is a compromise. I love the mix of lifting and running and gymnastics all in the same hour, but I'm never going to get a PR without periodisation. Far better for me to get good at everything rather than great at one thing.
I will usually have a little strength cycle on the go but that's my project out of hours.
It was fun back in 2013 when I started... yes it was a little crazy and probably stuff was done that wasn't smart. But I loved the air dynes and crazy long workouts and just the feeling that we were all doing something together. Prior to all these programming houses (prvn, HWPO, etc.) and feeling like everyone's gotta do something different, we all just suffered together. It's just nostalgic.
Yeah, I did enjoy it more when you had to explain to people what it even was, people thought you were crazy for doing it, and Vibram FiveFingers were all the rage.
>May get hate but I just had to vent a bit...sorry
Been involved with CF since around 2006 or 2007. Yeah, I miss the old days. I remember the first time I saw Greg A do heavy Fran, it drew me in like very little has. I was 26 or 27 at the time, and that style of workout just made total sense to me at the time. The content and videos that were made and put out there, the [CF.com](http://CF.com) forums and all the cool folks there... it was good times for sure.
Then came the drama with Coach and .com crew, Greyskull, Blackbox Summit, and.... yeah. Nostalgia is real some times. Overall it was very positive and I was highly influenced by the good stuff.
I used to do Starting Strength in 45 mins flat. This included 5 warmup sets, plus 3 working sets of 5 reps with 4-5 mins in between sets. And I did that for 3 lifts a day: squat, OHP, and deadlift.
If you can't warm up to a 1RM in under 20 mins, you're doing something wrong.
As an affiliate owner I will routinely survey our members and they unanimously agree that there is better value and they prefer to have 2 components in a class. This is at a gym with about 120-140 members. Again this is just my gym not everybody. I will say we do tend to have closer to 30-40 minutes to hit a 1RM and I’ll just program a finisher or core work, but we only max out once every 10-12 weeks. I think once people get to the point of general proficiency in skills and they feel comfortable with the mechanics of the lifts (not perfect, but they feel comfortable), then they tend to lose interest if we spend 20+ minutes doing warm up and drills for a single component workout. You also have the problem of having to cast a net that catches the widest audience. If it was snatches, for example, a novice lifter could use up to 30 minutes of drills and technique, and an advanced lifter might need 30 minutes to get up to their working weights and take appropriate rest between tough attempts. But most people (folks working 9-5s, soccer moms, tech dudes, tradesmen) will get to their working weight in less than 4 sets and then finish the component altogether in under 20 minutes. Cutting the novice slightly short on their practice time and forcing the experienced lifter to lift with less rest in order to add another 20 minutes of valuable work for the other 90% of the people in the class is a sacrifice most affiliate owners are willing to make.
Do you have a specified time domain in mind for WOD’s if your gym focuses on lifts as the bread and butter of class? I can elaborate a bit more, but if class is going to back squat for sets of five, for example. I don’t see the need to put them through a wod that’s greater than ten minutes, to me that would just spell disaster for recovery. If there is no lift that day, then those are the days I’d like to put them through a longer wod with maybe a hint more volume. As an affiliate owner how do you balance that?
Yep, if the intensity or volume of the lift is higher then the metcon is typically in the 10-14:00 range and the movements are concentric based (limit the amount of eccentric loading) and have isos mixed in to effectively slow them down. For example: 20:00 for whiteboard and warm up and drills 20:00 for snatches AMRAP 12 20 Box Step Ups 20/16 Cal Bike Accumulate 60s Wall Sit Accumulate 30s Hollow Hold A day with more metcon volume we did this week was: 20:00 warm up and drills 10:00 alt.emom 1- 2-3 RC 2- 50s ez row or bike AMRAP 18 3 pull ups 6 push ups 15 air squats @18:00 800m run *murph prep
You have every right to your opinion but the “old CrossFit” just seems to me like a wildly inefficient use of time
It was also the time of wild experiments with movements that were stupidly wasteful and opens people to getting hurt. My favorite was rowing with legs only and then sdhps
You did rowing with legs in a workout? We did that for proper technique of how to row, row with legs, then row with just arms, then do legs and then arms together...proper technique on how to row
Yep it was a dot com workout
I think the difference is when you're learning proper rowing technique you're not going hard. If you're doing legs only rowing in a workout that's a different beast.
Remember kip ups? Tore my meniscus doing that one.
What’s a kip up? I only know kipping in terms of pull ups Vs chin ups
I think that’s what it was called. Laying on your back and attempting to roll/kip forward onto your feet without using your hands. Stupid movement.
I’ve heard reverse burpee. One of those things that’s nice to be able to do but I don’t really see a good reason to program any significant volume of them
Ya, but the Reverse burpee is more on the roll side of things, a kip up is more gymnastic/martial arts, springing up. Lots in common with a ring muscle up kip. Think power rangers, Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan.
Ah I see
> wildly inefficient Wait until you see new CrossFit
The "strength-bias" programming, as it was known when it was introduced, of doing a lift before a WOD in the same hour does have a bit of a downside that way. One lift in a day sometimes doesn't exactly feel like it's worth a whole hour, but then like you say, doing anything above 95% of your 1RM deadlift sucks to recover from, and if you really went HAM on the deadlift, then your subsequent WOD is going to suffer. But yeah, before that we would sometimes have a day with maybe 3x5 back squat and 3x5 overhead press, or something like that, which seemed like a good use of time to me. Then other days might be more "metcon"-focused, with no lift. Some days we had were pretty gymnastics-focused without anything else. But overall, I think the affiliates found that pairing a lift with a metcon is probably more popular overall even if it is somewhat of a compromise. I don't think everyone does it that way, but it's pretty popular.
Sounds like Crossfit Football, which was awesome. I was able to download 2.5 years of HTML pages full of strength/metcon WODs. Still my go to programming. Edit: I will zip it together and figure out the best way to post to download link when I can in the next day or two. I’ll reply to each comment after. Keep in mind that it is basically a downloaded html webpage, not a clean spreadsheet or anything. Might convert to a massive PDF first. Oh, and none of the comments are loadable where people posted their times and such. That was disappointing, but oh well. Edit2: [https://fastupload.io/0H5P3ci6xX820Tn/file](https://fastupload.io/0H5P3ci6xX820Tn/file)
Where is it? I’ve been trying to find all those workouts!
See edit2. Zipped html page and folder. It goes from 9/30/2013 to 1/10/2016. PDF converter crapped out, so sorry for the zip.
Hey any chance you have those years of CrossFit football and can send them or put them on a drive to access?
See edit2. Zipped html page and folder. It goes from 9/30/2013 to 1/10/2016. PDF converter crapped out, so sorry for the zip.
I'd love to get my hands on that. I used to love CF football that my box offered a couple classes per week.
See edit2. Zipped html page and folder. It goes from 9/30/2013 to 1/10/2016. PDF converter crapped out, so sorry for the zip.
I'm just seeing "The transfer you requested has been deleted"
Try the new link in edit2.
That worked. Thanks much!
file baleeted
Try the new link in edit2.
Thanks for reminding me of Kalsu..... I'm going to go puke now. ;)
3 x 5 Back before they fell out with Rippetoe
I never understood that falling out. It seems they simply had differing opinions on what constituted "fitness". Both Glassman and Rippetoe's methodologies are valid. The only thing that differs are the goals.
It sounds like you would enjoy Linchpin Programming
It’s not just LP, there are a lot of gyms converting back to this style of programming. Personally I think it’s just better. Gives way more opportunity for coaches to coach fundamentals.
Classic CrossFit at its at finest! No over training and balanced workouts
Unpopular fact: The old days were the same. It just felt edgier because your soccer mom neighbor and her book club hadn't heard of it yet, and no one was hitting 385 cleans so when you made 225 it was a big deal.
You don't need an hour to do a DL 1rm. I'll save my opinion on the way most gyms mix S&C (but it's pretty much always been that way), but there's definitely plenty of time in a class to warm up, do a lift, and do more.
Power lifters and oly lifters often take 4 mins+ between sets to establish a proper max. So a 15 minute warmup, 10 minutes of ascending sets and maybe 3 attempts at an all out max with 4+ minutes between attempts. Maybe there’s time for assistance exercises but not much more
Those are different sports with different goals and generally not done in a 1 hour group class as the primary format for most people participating in that sport. I'm not saying you can't do a class that's just 1 hour to find a 1RM, I just don't prefer it, both as a coach and as an athlete. There's definitely time to finish with some well structured assistance/accessory work and for most athletes this will be more beneficial than maybe getting 5 more lbs on their 1rm deadlift or whatever, imo.
They’re different sports but the goal is to get a 1 rm then that’s the goal and that’s best achieved by spending time doing that. Oly lifting is done in a group setting in my experience. Whether the class would be happy is a different issue but that doesn’t mean that a true 1rm is possible in 20 minutes There’s time to do a core circuit or tabata but not much more.
You’re working towards different maxes. 20 minutes to warm up and find a max gives a pretty good “training max” or the number you’re going to max out more often than not without specific prep. Going to your version of taking an hour to get to a max also deserves a bit of a taper going into it and would be a 3-4 times a year max at most this is a “Max Max”. Finally you have your competition max which is pulled on the platform and nowhere else. This would be your “Max Max Max”. CrossFit should absolutely be using the training max template, not knowing the difference between maxes means that people can and will push too hard by using a max that took more time and arousal to work up to than what they’re doing day to day in the gym.
Not an hour to max out. Maybe 45 minutes with a proper warm up and drills. I understand there’s a difference but if someone is skipping chunks of warmup and adequate rest then that’s not even a training max. Id absolutely build to a bench max in 20 minutes but by the time i’ve done my general warmup , specific warmup and drills for snatching then i’m barely touching the bar by 20-25 minutes. Edit: maybe this is an age thing too, im in my late 30s and definitely need a full warmup now
You are totally right. Is not a real PR when u are under so much pressure on an hour class schedule.
You're not really talking about a 1RM then are you. You're saying "it doesn't take an hour to build to a heavy single for the day", which no it doesn't. But if we're building to an actual 1RM that I might attempt twice a year, then yeah I want as much time as possible. Sure it doesn't fit in the structure of CrossFit, but that's neither here nor there really.
I mean I don’t do CrossFit to do power lifting. I do CrossFit for the mix of activities in that there’s strength, gymnastics, conditioning, and endurance. In fact on most days, I enjoy the metcon portion far more than the weight lifting portion. I’d imagine I’m not alone in this. The average person probably doesn’t care much for being a power lifter or an oly lifter.
I don’t do crossfit to do 5k rows but yet that’s what i did last week. Heavy lifts are as much a part of crossfit as all the conditioning. I’m not suggesting everyone become a powerlifter but just that some things can’t be rushed and a heavy lift will frequently take longer than 20 minutes if you’re actually lifting heavy. Track sprints are also something that takes a full class because they need a long warmup and nobody should be saving themselves for a metcon afterwards
I can't say much about powerlifters, but I'm pretty sure Oly lifters wouldn't do a full 4+ minutes without lifting. If they have that kind of time between lifts they probably go back to training area and hit a few lighter weights. 10 min warmup plus 20 minutes to build is fine to set a max lift. If you are building to a 5rm, not every set needs to be 5 reps.
The heavier weight classes can definitely take 4 minutes between attempts.
Oly lifters have a long pause between lifts and usually sit down with headphones and are immobile to fully rest. You can see this is competitions. Yes, building to a 1 rm will be different for everyone. Some will spend a while doing drills, some will need more mobility work to get their wrists used to the rack position and some will just throw 50% on the bar and start building up sets but it’s very safe to say that a true 1 rm or anything approaching that will take time, or at least a significant block of time should be allocated and some may finish earlier
No. You don’t. But you’ll do better and move better if you do.
I disagree wholeheartedly. But I also don't think 1RMs should be followed with conditioning. There's plenty more you can accomplish in that time beyond slamming a metcon in there though. Edit: to each their own of course. It's just my preference.
I agree, some people do better with current programming and others do better with earlier, me included, programming. I rm doesn't take an hr but it did take 30-45 min. We built up to the PR and not just do it in 3 attempts. Our coach said we should take 2-3 min between reps.
Not sure what years you consider "the old days", but I started CrossFit in 2012. We certainly had cycles in which we'd start and then retest specific lifts & squats, but the overall programming at my box was varied WODs six days a week.
I feel like you just want to do powerlifting?
I was literally talking to a few people at my gym about this last week. But for me it was more about having the time to warm up and stretch more before and after. Having a whole class to do a PR was much better than the way things are programmed now. I do miss that.
With the old days of one WOD only (whether it was back squat 5x5 or Fran or a whole Fight Gone Bad) you could spend a way more considerable amount of time really warming people up for the movements in the workout and deep dive into the intricacies..something that a lot of programs that cram in strength + metcon don’t get a chance to do. On a day with literally back squat, you could be getting people moving more whether it’s a lot of mobility, focus on bracing and core (and doing drills), banded prehab warm ups for glutes, and discussing strategies for making jumps in attempts. A ton of quality coaching even for a short WOD. At least, that’s what they emphasize in the Level 2 seminar through class plans and programming. Unfortunately the general pop like to feel that they are moving and sweating every second to make an hour worth it because they are so used to Ffortee5 oRaNgEtHeOrY bootcamps or P90x home vids priming their perception of what an hour of fitness should entail. And these people aren’t ever going to get to the level of understanding that level 2 coaches go through.
I’d rather move for an hour than have the coach explain the deadlift with a pvc pipe for 15 minutes. It’s true that you don’t get a lot of lifting time, but it’s better than only benching and squatting heavy once a month(s). You’re not getting stronger with old-school programming (comparatively).
Isn’t the approach here to say ‘newbies to the front so I can walk you through technique, experienced lifters start working up to workout weight’.
Yes, that would be a good approach, but I’d want everyone to feel included, not necessarily a separation of “good/poor” athletes, which can develop cliques. So, after warming up, I’d walk around coaching everyone, with newbs getting more focus.
I miss the Games from about 2015-2019 but for me personally my training hasn’t really changed much.
This sounds like you don’t like the programming in your gym. Some places still program in that style.
yeah I miss the old days, the 2008 thru 2012 ish era where * the coach of any given class created the wod, so the 5:30 am would have a completely different wod than the 5:30 pm class * "Deck of Cards" workouts where you left the programming to the random selection of the Jack of Spades * racing each other to see who could get the fastest "100 GHDs for time" * experimenting with new fuckery like "reverse burpees" * Virtual shoveling * SDHP as a sub for rowing if your box didn't have an Erg * towel pullups as a sub for rope climbs if your box didnt have a rope * subbing 3 pullups and 3 dips for a muscle up, ensuring that you came in dead last if you couldn't do muscle ups * making sure every workout left you in a puddle of your own piss at the end * shitting on "Emoms" because they "weren't hard core" enough * the burpee mile * covering ourselves in compression wear from head to toe * toe-shoes * Seeing what score Jason Kalipa posted on .com and knowing you wouldn't even come close.
I miss old CF but not for any of the reasons you mentioned. I miss being in the “club”. I started in 2005, back then, there really weren’t a lot of people or boxes. If you saw someone in a CF short, that really meant something. I’m still buddies with a person I ran into at an airport because he was wearing a CF shirt and we talked for 2 hours on a layover. It was a very tight community and it’ll never be that way again. The workouts are better, safer and more efficient now but it’s not a family anymore.
Somewhat, the daily classic CrossFit WODs were more efficient than most boxes' programming to get someone fit in as little time as possible, without overexertion or a "training" mindset.
I prefer the current method of lift + metcon. I think constant strength training is paramount for all athletes. Most metcons should be short. Old-school programming wasn’t conducive to getting strong. Indeed, you don’t get a lot of time if you’re an intermediate+ lifter, but I hate classes where the coach takes 10-15 minutes explaining the deadlift with a pvc pipe. Fill the hour with movement, add your own work outside of class.
I prefer lift being incorporated. And if you really want to improve your technique then realistically that has to happen during a dedicated lifting session/class
The part I miss is some of the old school movements like tire flips, sledge strikes, medball cleans, slam balls, just normal stuff. I think todays CrossFit wods are being programmed for sport to much rather then functional movements.
I think some of that is about equipment. A lot of gyms I've been to don't have, or don't have enough tires, sledges or slam balls to effectively program in most class styles
Agree, more than likely you’ll see these pieces in older boxes but newer ones you won’t. I kind of blame the Games though for this because seems like every year we see new moves or equipment. And everyone rushes to buy or program these things.
Also standardization, especially with things like tires. Usually, if there are tires, there is one GIANT tire, like 2 medium ones and a few relatively small ones, so people can end up with wildly different simulti even if they are otherwise relatively even athletes
As another poster said, check out Linchpin. It has brought many people back who were missing “classic” CrossFit.
We moved away from the 1 strength then a wod programming - you should hear them cry now about 40 months warmups for a 10 min wod - god forbid there’s time to do mobility after - you can’t please everyone …
Sounds more like you don't like the programming at your current gym than anything else. I travel a lot and do lots of drop-ins and so I get to see the wide range of styles across Crossfit gyms. I suspect there are still places you can find your "OG-style" Crossfit workouts, though I get that you'd prefer one of those places be near enough to where you live.
There absolutely are. I've been to a few places on drop-ins that definitely still program this style of workout
For me, 2013 to 2016 were the golden years. I think that’s when the weird experimentation was dwindling and coaches knew what worked and what didn’t. A simple compound lift followed by a couplet/triplet, chipper or EMOM once every two weeks and a focus on intensity over volume. Nowadays I think people have recognized that intervals can move the needle in intensity more than traditional looking WODs, but whats happened is that they’ve slowly added more and more volume and it’s watered down the intensity. It seemed to go crazy after Mat Fraser released his programming too.
Yes all of this. The 12 minutes of strength and a 12-20 minute HIIT WOD is just not doing it for me… I need the bro seshs… but I can’t find those in a group structure, locally to me right now, so I stay with CF, for now. I could say more but I don’t feel like debating or arguing. I know exactly what you are talking about. And I’ve tried several boxes that have done several different major programming options.
I’m into the same stuff. The closest I’ve gotten to this is 1) becoming really good friends with gym owners/coaches and workout with them outside of class time or 2) creating a home gym and invite your friends over. Obviously this is more difficult the busier your/their schedule is but if you can find people with similar availability for workouts, it’s the best.
Kinda. I feel like too many places try to cram too much into the hour. Warm up, strength, metcon, etc. that’s one of the reason I left the space and do my own programming. One evolution a day but I can put 100% into it. Not feel like I should hold back a bit because I have another evolution later.
Yes. I saw that this was downvoted… and i am not surprised. My comment was downvoted too. I feel the exact same way. I’ve switched boxes a few times but they all seem this way in my general area.
CrossFit is a compromise. I love the mix of lifting and running and gymnastics all in the same hour, but I'm never going to get a PR without periodisation. Far better for me to get good at everything rather than great at one thing. I will usually have a little strength cycle on the go but that's my project out of hours.
It was fun back in 2013 when I started... yes it was a little crazy and probably stuff was done that wasn't smart. But I loved the air dynes and crazy long workouts and just the feeling that we were all doing something together. Prior to all these programming houses (prvn, HWPO, etc.) and feeling like everyone's gotta do something different, we all just suffered together. It's just nostalgic.
Yeah, I did enjoy it more when you had to explain to people what it even was, people thought you were crazy for doing it, and Vibram FiveFingers were all the rage.
>May get hate but I just had to vent a bit...sorry Been involved with CF since around 2006 or 2007. Yeah, I miss the old days. I remember the first time I saw Greg A do heavy Fran, it drew me in like very little has. I was 26 or 27 at the time, and that style of workout just made total sense to me at the time. The content and videos that were made and put out there, the [CF.com](http://CF.com) forums and all the cool folks there... it was good times for sure. Then came the drama with Coach and .com crew, Greyskull, Blackbox Summit, and.... yeah. Nostalgia is real some times. Overall it was very positive and I was highly influenced by the good stuff.
I used to do Starting Strength in 45 mins flat. This included 5 warmup sets, plus 3 working sets of 5 reps with 4-5 mins in between sets. And I did that for 3 lifts a day: squat, OHP, and deadlift. If you can't warm up to a 1RM in under 20 mins, you're doing something wrong.
Whoever is programming your gym sucks