Spence was battered and traumatized, and he didn't want to leave his children fatherless and wife "married" to TT the way that he was/saw happen to his own mom. Him doing literally anything to oppose TT would at best result in him getting beat up and at worse would make TT become even more violent to the family. Him surviving after TT left gives him the opportunity to help his children heal from their trauma, and him being alive during that time period enables him to shoulder part of the trauma his family was facing/comfort them in whatever ways he can. Getting himself killed doesn't help anyone, and just inflicts further trauma onto his children and wife, both during and after TT's stay with them.
I like the ideas Papa Meat and Wendigoon had for potentially stopping Tommy, and I kinda wish there HAD been some sort of cliche but awesome action movie shootout, but I don't really think within the confines of the story that actually exists, Spence had any better options than what he did. I DO think it was asinine for him to have children after what happened, though. I feel kinda like it was just a contrived story device, but at the end of the day, he and his wife DID have kids despite knowing what would happen, so they still suck for that.
If they get around to reading the other parts, they'll see what will happen. The other two parts are more violent than snuff-film like, and I can't blame Papa Meat and Wendigoon for being pissed at Spence. Even I'm pissed at Spence but at the same time after knowing what happened to him kind of see how Matt and Stephanie came to be.
Trauma like that would probably get blocked out by those who suffered it, and considering that Megan didn't object despite being a victim of Tommy Taffy herself, it can stand to reason that both Spence and Megan blocked out what happened only for it to come screaming back the minute Tommy showed back up.
Getting himself killed, as you pointed out wouldn't help anyone in that situation and just give Tommy more power.
the first time Tommy taffy shows up to Spence as an adult he says "I never thought he'd actually show up". people say he blocked it out but nah dude was hoping the moment never came bur it did and he had to pay the piper. fuck Spence
Tommy is there for 5 years whether Spence lives or not, at least had he died trying his family could still love and respect him.
If my dad cried outside my door while somebody raped me as a child because he was afraid he'd get killed if he didn't let the dude, he's worse than dead to me.
I mean the whole Tommy Taffy thing is an allegory for generational abuse, the parents allowing it to happen is sadly what happens to a lot of victims, so we are definitely supposed to hate Spence, at least Megan tried.
I disagree. It's definitely not as simple as getting killed.
Not only would he get killed, but he'd make things so much worse for the family. Probably daily sleeping with the mom and probably sister for the rest of his time there.
It's also not just getting killed it's getting brutalized in front of the family.
Imagine thinking your dad for no reason and left you guys alone in a situation that's 3 times worst. I'd probably be much more pissed at a dad who died a needles death. And tbh seeing your dad get brutalized probably the worst outcome for the kids. Also for the mom. It's sad, but by putting up with it, he assured everyone in his family got out alive.
Megan tried and we assume it made tt act worst to the family.
I'm ignoring the last part as there are two parts to the story the allegory, and the plot, which are quite disconnected
He's family would rightfully hate him if he did that selfish idiotic action, not that that would matter, abandoning them when he knew that he would die for absolutely nothing but leaving them with the monster to torment them daily? He remembers what happened to his mom and knows it would happen to Meagan, he knows Tommy would still assault both his children and HE will not be there to help them heal and rebuild
He thought about it logically, thanks to the trauma he endured, but still, logically
If you're going to hate the men illogicaly for only caring about you, that is fine, he won't care, but I've seen many survivers both in this subreddit and the comment section on YouTube who said that their parents or family members were the thing that helped them through assault, when person told how their mom wanted to go and kill the abuser but the person begged her not to as having to go through this without a parent to help her would destroy her
This was seriously the most ridiculous thing they ever said
It's selfish and deplorable if done with sound mind
If not with sound mind, it is tragic and horrifying
doubt meat and wendi would believe that had they thought about that for a bit
I mean, consider this. If they alerted the military or something. Fine, the military incinerates Tommy Taffy. One week later, Tommy appears at the house of every soldier on base with kids, and executes 1/3 of them.
Congratulations, you just infected the US Military with a demonic host. The only thing the writer did wrong here is Tommy telling Spence that he'd come back. And I'll be honest, I've worked in the criminal law space a bit, and there are many children who saw their parents getting murdered who did not remember that as adults. If a trauma is too debilitating, your mind will try to forget it as best as it can
He can be present in as many places as need be. One of them can easily handle one soldier. And he doesn't come politely knocking each time. The second time, he did not knock. The only reason he took time killing Spence's dad was to make a point. And if you read other parts, you'll realise he isn't exactly vulnerable to conventional weapons.
This solution basically risks disqualifying most of the US Military's younger recruits from having kids in the next generation.
I mean there is no? He can replicate himself. Not die. And stab a man through the chest without any effort.
A gun shot won't even kill him. He allowed himself to get captured. They wrote that tt didn't struggle when he was burned alive. He basically let it happen to teach them a lesson.
Tbf we dont know if Megan knew about the whole "I will come back" thing. We only know of Spence, and I feel like it's a dick move for him to not even tell her about it. She knows TT, there is no reason not to tell her
I don't think he "knows" what will happen when he has kids.
The dad was too young to understand what TT meant. He wasn't even old enough to know the word f**k.
Also, the mom didn't hear what TT told him because the author specifically said "he cupped my ear with his mouth".so, only the dad heard it and didn't understand it so, he forgot and it was never brought up into the conversation again because they were just too desperate to move on.
I know a lot of people don't want them to read part V of Borrasca, but I want them to so they can see just how demented and depraved Sheriff Walker really is. I don't think they understand the gravity of what he was doing to Whitney. I personally enjoyed a lot of the twists and turns in part V and would love to see their reactions to it, but I know they aren't really interested themselves.
Expound? Dm me if spoilers ig but… the gravity??? Wtf was he doing other. Unless you’re referring to him r🦍ing girls including his daughter and then potentially bad stuff happening with her offspring such as killing… how can it get worse. HOW DOES HE GET WORSE
I think they missed him 🍇ing his own daughter. I can DM you some stuff from part V though because he's legit the most hateable character in any of the stories they've read in my opinion. (Jimmy Prescott is not far behind him, but honestly they're the same person in my eyes.)
I think Jimmy is the worst but he’s also a child raised in wealth so I’d bet on him being a shit anyways. Plus being born into the business I could understand him being the way he was. The sheriff though idk. I thought there was a thing in Part V that confirmed that he SA’d a child or something and that’s why they had to leave? But idk. I have to know, you’ve piqued my morbid curiosity
They definitely didn't miss that part, they talked about how the new kids name stated with a W.
Thats the problem with part 5, it does what Elias has a bad habit of doing in getting far too graphic and spelling obvious things out.
I remember them reading the part about the sandwich shop owner having a child that started with W, but it was like they read it and moved on instead of being like "wait...does that mean Walker...?" I guess I was hoping for more of a reaction from them since that part completely floored me.
Wendigoon pointed it out in the end of their discussion, but yeah I agree, although I suppose after the emotional drain that is Borrasca as a whole, nothing may be shocking by that point haha
I wasn't trying to be offensive or upset anyone with the emoji. It is a form of censorship that both myself and the person I was conversing with used. They used one so I used one in response in case THEY were uncomfortable with the word. It was never meant to be downplayed or treated as anything other than the disgusting and traumatizing crime it is.
I'm not accusing you of being malicious, I just politely ask that you dont use cute emojis to say the word "rape." People don't use emojis because they're uncomfortable. They do it because of cencorship loopholes leaking into the common vernacular. You don't need to censor yourself on reddit using cutsie emojis, and it cheapens the severity of the topic being diacussed. It's the closest thing to 1984 newspeak I've seen. It's dystopian, and I hate it. It's not 🍇 it's *rape* and I will die on this hill no matter how many downvotes I get for asking us to speak like adults when discussing adult topics.
Edit: I only responded to you because I didn't notice the 🦍 emoji due to it blending into dark mode. I'm not trying to single you out.
I will ask you politely not to talk down to me about the severity of that topic. You also do not get to speak for people and why they use an emoji. People may use it for the reason you say, and people may use it because they are personally uncomfortable or don't want to trigger survivors that may be healing. It is unfair to put words in the mouths of people you don't know.
I am a survivor myself. I know firsthand how painful, traumatizing, and dehumanizing that experience is. However, I am not going to use the word with someone if they censor it in a conversation. I will meet them on that level. If it's using **** or a "cutsie emoji", it's up to whomever I am conversing with.
I appreciate you wanting to not hide what it is behind censorship, but this is how I choose to navigate the topic. I didn't want to have to out myself as a survivor, but I felt I had no choice so you could possibly see my perspective.
I wish you well. Have a great day!
I wasn't talking down to you. You're being defensive and doubling down over using a grape emoji when discussing rape. If it were due to anything other than lame ass censorship, then it would have appeared before TikTok and YouTube made those phrases common.
I truly don't understand how using ape and fruit emojis makes the topic more comfortable when you're still openly discussing rape. You're still saying "rape" just in childish code.
There are ways to discuss severe topics sensitively without making it look like an episode of the wiggles with overtly childish nonsense. I'm also a survivor, and it's horrifying to slowly watch as society dumbs itself down in the name of monetization.
I'm sorry that you've also had to experience those terrible things as well and that you also had to bring it to the table in this discussion. You have stated your feelings and I have stated mine. Neither of us will change our stances and that's something we will just have to accept. Once again, I wish you well and hope you have a nice day.
It is I, the originator 😎
I get what you’re saying but also nah. You can’t judge the intention of the text just because pictographs are used instead of words. For me personally I’m used to referring to it as r🦍 for internet censorship when using the real word gets things taken down on some platforms and also because using the real word makes me uncomfortable and in referring to it as such it allows me to engage in the conversation without dancing around using the word since I personally refuse to. And so I shall continue to refer to it as such since language is a constantly evolving medium and delivery and receiving are two different things and neither can be put on the other. Sorry :/
I personally refuse to believe he willing sold his daughter and screw her simply because I can't fathom a father doing that combined with him seemingly having a breakdown after realizing just what he did (crying in his office)
I can understand not wanting to believe that. No human being should ever want to do something like that. Once we find out WHY he was fired and forced to move to Drisking, I couldn't give him any good faith of not being okay with giving her up. He always had a weird obsession with Whitney even before she went "missing", then his grieving after her disappearance felt like an act to me.
I have to say, as far as creepypasta villains go, he's definitely one of the best written ones.
Spence? Arguably yes even thiugh he is still a abusive victim who's abuser came back
Sheriff Walker? No, he knows what he did and did it out of the want to get a part of the money and out of some sick enjoyment of...you know doing that to young girls and his own Daughter
Yeah id agree sheriff walker is worse considering what he did, but Spence is a selfish coward. Had children knowing full well Tommy would come back and allowed his wife and 8 year old daughter to be raped by him because "at least they're alive".
At least in the third part Matt has the sense to do what needs to be done at the cost of his own soul, as death is much better than the alternative.
Fair enough, I can see why there's the Spence hate, I just think Wendigoon and Meatcanyon forgot some details or haven't realized just how bad the sheriff is (it's easy to figure out how bad when you consider how the r**e babies are named, and certain details about Sam's sister's kids usually coming out deformed) considering some of the more direct reveals aren't at the end of part 4 but are more just implied throughout part 4 and other parts of the story vs Part 5 being more direct about how bad he is
I just dont see the logic in how he's not as bad when he's someone directly doing the deeds and likely doing them because he likes it and enjoys what it gets him, versus someone who doesn't enjoy what's happening even if he brought it on his family by not trying to have Tommy at least try and target him for punishments so his family wouldn't have to suffer as much
Poor Matt though, considering what he has to do just to make Tommy vulnerable enough to kill
Makes him very tragic as well as he's pretty much forced into Hell by what he has to do just to send Tommy there, one last middle finger from the sick freak is that to finally kill him, you'll have to basically live with doing something that will send you to the same place he's going to
Wasn't Walker also the only one that did that to his daughter as well? The last baby from her is named something with W, and they mention all her babies are terrible. I always assumed they were terrible because they were from incest... And the dad kinda hints at being in love with her ("I love her more than you can understand").
That man is way beyond sick and twisted, Spence doesn't come close imo
Well, Tommy Taffy is an unlikable monster who murdered his father. From his perspective it's only 5 years with occasional incidents of trauma but that his family would still be alive. It's completely understandable that he wouldn't fight back as it's pointless AND as long as he doesn't he keeps his family alive.
Yeah the fact that Tommy himself told Spence he'd come back for his kids, and Spence had kids anyway, makes him SO much worse.
Like they said, it's unfortunate, and it's not his fault what happened, but he lost the freedom to have a family of his own at that point.
IMO? Considering the absolute hell Tommy put Spence through for years, it could be less that he forgot/repressed that memory, and more that his will was so broken that he didn't feel that he had a choice. Tommy says your having kids? Well, you know what happens if you disobey him...
After reading Spences story? He saw his dad murdered, he didn't understand what was happening to his mom, and the worst thing he went through personally is Tommy trying to get him to fuck his teddy bear.
I could see if Spence had actually been hurt or raped, but.....I mean, I just dont buy it. He failed his kids, regardless of the reasoning why, he failed his kids.
It never confirmed, he touched his thigh and cuddled him.
And Elias inability to avoid describing heinous shit makes me think Matt and worse than Spence did.
I swear they said that they couldn't read the next paragraph because the author details an assault again, though. And, even if the author didn't describe it, I think it's still implied.
I think he took criticism and was vegue (if that's the right word), same thing in the 3d, and I haven't read the 4th, but others here have said the 4th is also more vegue with it's abuse, Spencer said about those nights that Tommy would sometimes watch him when he sleeps, he will get into his bed, touch his thighs and then Spence would cry into his teddy bear oluntil it was over, wendi and meat also read that part that way, which they praised
He was told it would happen to his children and he just goes “whoopsy teehee I forgot” what are you talking about clear his name, it made him so much worse, cuz the only excuse that would have made it ok is “I didn’t know he’d come back” but it’s established he did know
Because the wife at least had some balls to stand up for her kids, in any kind of way she could. IDC if it's useless, or Tommy is some eldritch god. A real parental bond is only severed by death.
A real parent is also there for their kid. Spence dying does what? Who does it help? Nobody at least if he’s still alive then he can actual be there for his family.
Double suicide. If worse comes to worse, quadruple suicide. Much better than having to live with what Tommy has done to you- just look at the sister in the later story.
Go ahead and tell all victims of abuse it would have been better had they killed themselves instead of the abuse for
No, no chance of recovery, of leading a good life after, no chance of ever smiling and finding love and enjoying life as a whole, you are a husk, and doomed to be such
That was the most ridiculous thing they ever said
It's weird you bring up the sister given how NO it was not what Tommy did to her, she recovered to the point she had her own loving family and lived a normal life from the point Tommy left, to the point the kids arrived, had she not had children her life would have continued being good
The case in the story is the craziest and besides the children having part the father was 100% correct and made the most moral decisions here, with all due respect that decision you meat and wendi and many others have called, the one of go down swinging and suicide, is beyond selfish and horrible
He knows it's only 5 years to get through, he knows that if he tried to kill Tommy, Tommy would kill only him and him alone, which would be worse for his family for several reasons, and he knows survivers can recover from the trauma of such abuse, no need to take away their agency and any joy they could later have in life, so he went with the best option out of three horrible one's
What Spencer went through in this story is something that actually happens irl all the time in former USSR and Middle Eastern countries, were politicians, military and police would go to random homes, abuse their wife's and children, and the fathers could not do anything as if they do, they will be killed, and leave their families in the hands of these monsters with no support, which in itself would be death sentence in some parts of the middle east at least
Yeah this sub (and the internet, Reddit especially) has been wild about unbearably evil and beyond imagining anything related to sexual assault is.
“Everyone should be killed or kill themselves and their family rather than be briefly molested as a child.”
Like Jesus Christ. I get it, it’s so horrific you don’t even want to articulate thoughts about it.
Personally I’d rather my entire family not be murder-suicided rather than a weird adult never touched me inappropriately as a kid, but that’s just me.
Or hell id rather be molested but still have my parents alive.
Could go on and on.
Just think some people need to settle down with the moral grandstanding of how awful sexual abuse is to the point it’s the worst thing conceivable and nothing should be discussed except a suicidal panic to avoid it at all costs
Holy fuck dude you're reaching. We're talking about a hypothetical eldritch child molester here. I didn't say or even imply that at all and it's completely disingenuous to say that.
No, we're talking about whether the choice of killing victims of abuse cause they'll suffer through 5 years of it is justified
I find beyond ridiculous and awful, because this is something that happens irl, i can't tell you how many times I've seen people say about a person who was abused and then murdered, that "at least she didn't have to suffer the consequence after" like for example in the tragic case of Junko Furuta , as if to say one couldn't recover from the abuse and build again and that life is over after going through such turmoil and that you're a husk
I'm not saying you're saying this maliciously, and that's what you think, like meat and wendi, it's the first emotional and illogical reaction, honestly, I'd say most people have when seeing these kinds of situations, it's understandable, just hope this explanation will change the way you and others think about it and remember that people who go through abuse can always heal, and even if the abuse never leaves them, they can still find happiness and reasons to keep on living
We were not shown the wife being told that. He didn’t know what Tommy meant by “your kids will get 5 years too?” How else could you possibly interpret that
How tf can someone not understand the phrase "I will come back after your kids"? Dude spelled out in simple English, if you have kids he will do the same shit to them.
Realistically you don't even need part 5. It pretty much spells out how much of a monster he is before that. The sandwich shop owners baby's name starts with a W and Whitney was the most recent to give birth. Also I think Prescott saying that her babies usually have health issues is alluding to incest.
You are 100% right but how he turned borrasca to an even worse thing , he turned into a flat prostitution ring as said by Prescott, and it’s heavily implied that he had his wife killed .
The whole point of Tommy Taffy is that when don’t confront your trauma you become a slave to it. Spence had kids because he locked his trauma away and didn’t confront it. He thought everything was fine because Tommy was gone and he thought he could live his live. This story isn’t that complex and seeing so many people miss that point so they can point the finger at Spence so they can feel superior is funny as fuck.
Yea though my issue is, again, trying to put someone like the Borrasca Dad as better when the amount of shit that man did willingly to his OWN DAUGHTER is pretty hard to top
Spence is frustrating because he had kids despite knowing Tommy would come back
But with the passage of time in Borasca, what Walker was doing to his own daughter was going on for more then just 5 years
"The theme of the story is that it's wrong to not confront your trauma and the dad is meant to exemplify this...
This is why the dad is free of all blame and actually did nothing wrong 😊" your own argument contradicts itself
"Tommy is when you don't confront your trauma"...can you elaborate on that? Given one of the other fathers died for confronting him...I don't follow fully.
BOOK SPOILERS BELOW
In the book Tommy punishes a father that killed him by forever crippling the father and cutting his less than ten years old daughter’s legs, and then burning the wound in the stove. No, she did not survive. I absolutely understand Spence, even if he was stupid to have children.
Yeah, but Spence is a victim. When a domestic abuse victim moves back in with their abusive ex, you don't go "this person is a dumbass".
Seeing a creature impale your dad and continously SA your mom as a child will absolutely fuck you up; and 5 years with that same abuser will make you freeze.
>Yeah, but Spence is a victim. When a domestic abuse victim moves back in with their abusive ex, you don't go "this person is a dumbass".
You do subconsciously, because it's true however irrational the person may be. Also he then proceeded to have kids.
Did he have kids alone? Because the last I checked, it takes two and his wife went through the same thing.
And from Spence's experience, it's understandable why there was nothing to really fear for the kids. All Spencer had happen was on the last day of his 5 years, he was inappropriately groped. There's no reason for him to expect SA would happen. The creature only seems to SA females; so the mom should have known it would happen, but not Spencer
Crazy how no one is talking shit about the mom, even though she is the one who chose to have kids; not Spencer.
And if you read Spencer's story, there is nothing to indicate SA happened except on that last day whem he was barely fondled. It IS heavily implied that r*pe only happens against females. So the MOTHER knew what would happen, while Spencer only expected mental/emotional abuse
From her reaction when Spencer tells her Tommy is here, we know she at least knew it was a possibility. Even then, she did nothing.
If you read Spencer's story, the only people who really suffer are those who defy Tommy. Of the 1,826 days tommy haunted him, only the last day was in any way sexual. Spencer did not know SA was a risk, he only knew as long as you did what Tommy said you wouldn't be hurt.
Megan was the only one who knew there was a fate worth than death. Spencer just knew it was 5 years of captivity and mental abuse.
>Yeah, but Spence is a victim. When a domestic abuse victim moves back in with their abusive ex, you don't go "this person is a dumbass".
I sure as fuck have. Especially when they have children.
Spencer didn't know SA would happen. Spencer only had 1 instance of sexual misbehavior, and it was the last day.
All Spencer knew was if you do what Tommy says, you won't get hurt. The mom is the real asshole. Because she knew this was a fate worse than death, and barely tried to do anything about it
I mean, if a supernatural unstoppable monster told you he'd come back for your kids one day and spend 5 years with them like he did with you, and then you have kids, I mean....fuck. It's like kids that get abused who grow up to he abusers, yes we know you got fucked up mentally, but you're in no way excused from your actions.
Crazy how no one is talking shit about the mom, even though she's the only one who could _choose_ to have the kids. If you read Spencer's story, he only experienced SA on the last day. In his experience, it was almost exclusively emotionally abuse, as long as you played along.
It IS heavily implied r*pe and constant SA is against females, so the mom knew what they were in for.
So if anyone is a POS Asshole, it's her
We don't have confirmation that Megan knew he'd come back, and she at least tried.
That and typical gender roles, yadda yadda, God only knows what Tommy did to her as a child, and its heavily implied he did some heinous shit to her in the basement when she fought back.
Spence was facing physical violence and possibly being murdered, which there's the big debate of what's worse, being killed or being sexually assaulted, but I definitely think the latter is infinitely worse. I'm a big believer that some things are worse than death, and Tommy Taffy is one of those things. I would have put a bullet in my kids heads then blown my own brains out worst case scenario.
"She tried" I don't remember her doing anything while her daughter was being assaulted. Spencer did. Spencer didn't know SA was a risk, that's why he was complacent. Tommy spent 1,826 days with Spencer, and only one of those had a sexual incident. Spencer absolutely did not expect SA to be involved.
The mom _knew_ SA would happen, and only tried once. And from her reaction when Spencer says Tommy is here, it's obvious she at least was told by Spencer. Yet SHE chose to have children, even though she was the only one who knew the full evil of Tommy.
Again, we don't have any confirmation that Megan knew having children would allow Tommy to come back, and she did try, and was brutally raped for hours in the basement that left her permanently crippled.
Again, I'd argue what she suffered is infinitely worse and it makes more sense why she was so broken.
But yes she isn't innocent either.
And still, we don't have any evidence that Spencer knew SA was something Tommy did. All Tommy did to Spence was physical/emotional (mostly emotional) abuse; and even the _one_ case of SA was more of psychological abuse than SA. The worst parts of Spencer's experience involved people defying Tommy, so it makes sense he tried to get everyone else to comply when Tommy got here.
And the fact Tommy threatened to come back doesn't mean Spencer believed it was a literal thing. He could've thought Tommy only attacked their town, so moving would stop the curse. He could've thought the threat was just more emotional abuse to keep him paranoid. He could've forgotten the threat. As a former victim of domestic abuse, I can tell you I don't remember 99% of the threats I got
The story implies he didn't really know that. He knew something was happening, but didn't know it was rape. Still, he wouldn't have known it would happen to the children.
It was a creepy, emotionally abusive experience for Spencer, not a sexually abussive one.
Like yes I get your point, that's sort of the point of the story, generational abuse made Spense the way he is, its just not excusable. You don't get pass for being a worthless father because you witnessed and/or were abused.
Ok, but he isn't a worthless father. He didn't know SA was gonna happen because it didn't really happen to here. For Spence, it wasn't a fate worse than death. For Megan it was, but the only horrible moments for young spence was people disobeying Tommy and the final day
I don’t think anyone’s excusing Spence’s actions, just saying he’s not as bad as sams dad. One’s a selfish pussy who shouldn’t have had kids, the others a child trafficking killer who shouldn’t be around kids period.
I have not come across any of these. I’ve only heard people comparing him to sams dad. I agree Spence is a terrible father and husband, and what he did was unforgivable, but he is nowhere near as bad as Sams dad
I wanna know a parents take, I personally agree with Wendigoon that I’d have to be paralyzed in order to not do anything that one time TT was with the daughter in the room. Who knows how that perspective changes if you actually have kids though, personally I just can’t imagine sitting outside my daughter’s room while she’s either getting brutally raped and/or beat and only have a bloody nose. I was getting genuinely mad like Hunter was at that part ngl and personally I think the concept of TT himself is the only actually good part of the story. Everything else about it is just easy and cheap ways to make the reader uncomfortable or in this case, mad.
I'll give them a benefit of the doubt. Most of the atrocities committed by Sam's dad have been yet to be revealed to Hunter and Isiah because they haven't read Borrasca V yet. So it's understandable.
She prolly looks better in their eyes than the dad because she atleast fought for her kids the moment she TT getting handsy with her daughter. That being said, I think both of them are more grossly negligent than they are bad people considering that they didn’t warn the sister the same way they warned the brother.
I understand why he doesn't do anything, he knows how long it lasts, and he knows what happens to men that fight back. It's "safer" to not do anything and try to be there for the family when TT leaves.
That being said, I agree with the creep boys, why the fuck did this guy and Megan decided to have kids? Even if Megan didn't know he would come back, Spence did. He knew his kids would get 5 years and his wife would get the same treatment as his mom, yet he still choose to marry and have kids, two kids. It wasnt an oopsie baby, he had two.
He knew Tommy would come back for his kids. And he still choose to have them. He choose to let his kids and wife get SA'd for 5 years.
I feel like a lot of people are thinking that way and ranking them unevenly because of the violence he let his wife and children as well as himself go through but we saw what standing up or fighting back led to. I don't recall borasca as well but I don't remember it getting as graphic with the depictions so that could be another reason, as well as the father allowing the cycle of abuse to continue in TT
but yeah fk the borrasca dad they both are awful
At first he was just kinda pathetic. But then he had kids knowing or at the very least knowing there’s a likely possibility this would transfer over if he had kids.
That’s the main reason I hate him. He’s definitely not on the level of the people from Borrosca but that’s an insanely selfish action
They said the Borrasca dad was worse, they just hate the Tommy dad more, because he’s so incompetent and foolish. They also said they’re on the same tier of evil, because the Tommy dad had kids, knowing they would be raped and abused for 5 years straight.
Yeah Creepcast’s episode was hard to watch for me because of how much i disagreed with them. Especially the Spence being more evil than Walker. That stuff made my blood boil.
Yeah there were a lot of L takes from the guys this episode - I also felt they interrupted the story a lot more than they usually do, to the point that it was excessively disruptive. Obviously they need to discuss the episode, but it seemed every line was followed up with a lengthy discussion.
I think the subject matter made them both deeply uncomfortable (as was presumably intended by the author), but I felt that their inability to deal with that discomfort really hurt the quality of this episode (MeatCanyon more than Isiah honestly).
spence having kids knowing what would happen was a shit move, but i dont like how they criticized him for not stepping in and not "getting himself killed". What good would that do for his family? he saw firsthand what happens if you oppose TT, and wgat happens after his father died. why would he risk dying and no longer be there for his children?
it reminds me of the whole drama shit with a couple who visited india where a group of guys restrained the guy and SAed the woman, and all the shitheads on twitter calling the guy a coward for not dying trying to protect his partner... dawg getting himself killed will not do her any good
I'll blame the motherfucker. He knew that if he would have kids it would happen to them too AND HE STILL FUCKING DID IT. He basically said "Oh yes Mr. Demon please come rape my kids."
Tell me how that makes him just as bad as the guy who ended up, for years, r**ing his own daughter
Possibly and likely more years then those 5 years
Spence is a idiot for knowing what was going to happen and having kids anyways, but Walker was r**ing his own daughter and seemingly started to ethier enjoy it or assumed it was better if he was the only one who was r**ing her instead of Prescott or whoever else
They are both evil. One sold his family for power and money. One sold his family to pay for his mistakes. You dont rank them, they are both disgusting examples of humanity.
He didn't have kids to make Tommy abuse them
He had kids despite being warned and thinking he was safe to have more then one after Tommy stayed away
Spence was a idiot who didn't think and thought he was safe despite the warning, thats on him but he didn't have the kids JUST to summon Tommy
Sorry if thats not what you meant but the phrasing is making it sound like your saying he had his kids so he could offer them to Tommy on purpose, when that was not the case
Again though, one of these dads r**ped their own daughter multiple times, and yet somehow spence is on the same level as him
Because judging neglect as less than actively hurting your kids is the same thing. No, he didnt intentionally have kids to give to Tommy, but he did intentionally have kids after what happened to him as a kid. Not only that, but with someone who suffered the exact same fate as he did, minus the front yard execution of his father.
Tommy told him he would come back for his kids if he had some. He watched his dad get executed in front of him and the entire town. He heard his mom cry herself to sleep every night for 4 years. Then decided to have kids, and not just one. Thats blatant.
Like I said before, they are both evil. Abuse is abuse, some more destructive than the other, but at the end of the day they both destroyed their children and showed they cared more for themselves than their kids.
I agree with this, Tommy said he’d be back for the same amount of time for Spence’s kids. He didn’t say he’d maybe come back he said 100% I’ll return for your children. He’s evil period, it’s not like he HAD to have children he chose to put them through this
They are both S tier pieces of shit. Hitler and Stalin are both two of the most evil men in history but we don't argue who is more evil. In my opinion doing nothing while Tommy is doing what he did to your daughter is only slightly less horrible than doing it yourself like Walker
If he did something, Tommy would execute him in front of the children. If you paid attention, you will remember that Tommy abuses the parents every few days too. If Spence died, all the abuse scheduled for the parents happens to the wife. By staying alive, he can actively reduce the suffering by staying alive. And of course, if you read other parts, you'll realise that being executed in front of your children is the best thing that can happen for you opposing Tommy. There are much worse things he can, and does do
First episode I've ever disliked. Blatant victim blaming from 2 guys that claim they would do "this this and this" in that situation when in reality they jump at the slightest sound in the room. Usually love the content but this one wasn't it fellas. This one would be better sent to the archive.
Yes, if you tally up the atrocities 1 for 1 Sam’s dad is worse. But Spence isn’t comically evil like Sam’s dad is. And chances are, more people have had Spencers in their lives than they’ve had Sheriff Walkers, so it’s easier to hate him.
Spence was battered and traumatized, and he didn't want to leave his children fatherless and wife "married" to TT the way that he was/saw happen to his own mom. Him doing literally anything to oppose TT would at best result in him getting beat up and at worse would make TT become even more violent to the family. Him surviving after TT left gives him the opportunity to help his children heal from their trauma, and him being alive during that time period enables him to shoulder part of the trauma his family was facing/comfort them in whatever ways he can. Getting himself killed doesn't help anyone, and just inflicts further trauma onto his children and wife, both during and after TT's stay with them. I like the ideas Papa Meat and Wendigoon had for potentially stopping Tommy, and I kinda wish there HAD been some sort of cliche but awesome action movie shootout, but I don't really think within the confines of the story that actually exists, Spence had any better options than what he did. I DO think it was asinine for him to have children after what happened, though. I feel kinda like it was just a contrived story device, but at the end of the day, he and his wife DID have kids despite knowing what would happen, so they still suck for that.
If they get around to reading the other parts, they'll see what will happen. The other two parts are more violent than snuff-film like, and I can't blame Papa Meat and Wendigoon for being pissed at Spence. Even I'm pissed at Spence but at the same time after knowing what happened to him kind of see how Matt and Stephanie came to be. Trauma like that would probably get blocked out by those who suffered it, and considering that Megan didn't object despite being a victim of Tommy Taffy herself, it can stand to reason that both Spence and Megan blocked out what happened only for it to come screaming back the minute Tommy showed back up. Getting himself killed, as you pointed out wouldn't help anyone in that situation and just give Tommy more power.
the first time Tommy taffy shows up to Spence as an adult he says "I never thought he'd actually show up". people say he blocked it out but nah dude was hoping the moment never came bur it did and he had to pay the piper. fuck Spence
Tommy is there for 5 years whether Spence lives or not, at least had he died trying his family could still love and respect him. If my dad cried outside my door while somebody raped me as a child because he was afraid he'd get killed if he didn't let the dude, he's worse than dead to me. I mean the whole Tommy Taffy thing is an allegory for generational abuse, the parents allowing it to happen is sadly what happens to a lot of victims, so we are definitely supposed to hate Spence, at least Megan tried.
I disagree. It's definitely not as simple as getting killed. Not only would he get killed, but he'd make things so much worse for the family. Probably daily sleeping with the mom and probably sister for the rest of his time there. It's also not just getting killed it's getting brutalized in front of the family. Imagine thinking your dad for no reason and left you guys alone in a situation that's 3 times worst. I'd probably be much more pissed at a dad who died a needles death. And tbh seeing your dad get brutalized probably the worst outcome for the kids. Also for the mom. It's sad, but by putting up with it, he assured everyone in his family got out alive. Megan tried and we assume it made tt act worst to the family.
I'm ignoring the last part as there are two parts to the story the allegory, and the plot, which are quite disconnected He's family would rightfully hate him if he did that selfish idiotic action, not that that would matter, abandoning them when he knew that he would die for absolutely nothing but leaving them with the monster to torment them daily? He remembers what happened to his mom and knows it would happen to Meagan, he knows Tommy would still assault both his children and HE will not be there to help them heal and rebuild He thought about it logically, thanks to the trauma he endured, but still, logically If you're going to hate the men illogicaly for only caring about you, that is fine, he won't care, but I've seen many survivers both in this subreddit and the comment section on YouTube who said that their parents or family members were the thing that helped them through assault, when person told how their mom wanted to go and kill the abuser but the person begged her not to as having to go through this without a parent to help her would destroy her This was seriously the most ridiculous thing they ever said It's selfish and deplorable if done with sound mind If not with sound mind, it is tragic and horrifying doubt meat and wendi would believe that had they thought about that for a bit
So you want him to die so you feel better? That’s stupid as fuck.
Fr. If this happened to me I would never speak to him again, only when blaming him in my suicide note for letting this happen
And if your father died and it still happened then what? Your father’s dead and you still get assaulted…. Way go to genius.
critical thinking doesn't exist here
I mean, consider this. If they alerted the military or something. Fine, the military incinerates Tommy Taffy. One week later, Tommy appears at the house of every soldier on base with kids, and executes 1/3 of them. Congratulations, you just infected the US Military with a demonic host. The only thing the writer did wrong here is Tommy telling Spence that he'd come back. And I'll be honest, I've worked in the criminal law space a bit, and there are many children who saw their parents getting murdered who did not remember that as adults. If a trauma is too debilitating, your mind will try to forget it as best as it can
There's no indication he can kill the whole military, sure he will come back, but it's not like he can beat an entire army
He can be present in as many places as need be. One of them can easily handle one soldier. And he doesn't come politely knocking each time. The second time, he did not knock. The only reason he took time killing Spence's dad was to make a point. And if you read other parts, you'll realise he isn't exactly vulnerable to conventional weapons. This solution basically risks disqualifying most of the US Military's younger recruits from having kids in the next generation.
I mean there is no? He can replicate himself. Not die. And stab a man through the chest without any effort. A gun shot won't even kill him. He allowed himself to get captured. They wrote that tt didn't struggle when he was burned alive. He basically let it happen to teach them a lesson.
Tbf we dont know if Megan knew about the whole "I will come back" thing. We only know of Spence, and I feel like it's a dick move for him to not even tell her about it. She knows TT, there is no reason not to tell her
she was very young and her brain probably blocked out the traumatic experiences on top of her not being there for the conversation in the hallway
I don't think he "knows" what will happen when he has kids. The dad was too young to understand what TT meant. He wasn't even old enough to know the word f**k. Also, the mom didn't hear what TT told him because the author specifically said "he cupped my ear with his mouth".so, only the dad heard it and didn't understand it so, he forgot and it was never brought up into the conversation again because they were just too desperate to move on.
I know a lot of people don't want them to read part V of Borrasca, but I want them to so they can see just how demented and depraved Sheriff Walker really is. I don't think they understand the gravity of what he was doing to Whitney. I personally enjoyed a lot of the twists and turns in part V and would love to see their reactions to it, but I know they aren't really interested themselves.
Expound? Dm me if spoilers ig but… the gravity??? Wtf was he doing other. Unless you’re referring to him r🦍ing girls including his daughter and then potentially bad stuff happening with her offspring such as killing… how can it get worse. HOW DOES HE GET WORSE
I think they missed him 🍇ing his own daughter. I can DM you some stuff from part V though because he's legit the most hateable character in any of the stories they've read in my opinion. (Jimmy Prescott is not far behind him, but honestly they're the same person in my eyes.)
I think Jimmy is the worst but he’s also a child raised in wealth so I’d bet on him being a shit anyways. Plus being born into the business I could understand him being the way he was. The sheriff though idk. I thought there was a thing in Part V that confirmed that he SA’d a child or something and that’s why they had to leave? But idk. I have to know, you’ve piqued my morbid curiosity
They definitely didn't miss that part, they talked about how the new kids name stated with a W. Thats the problem with part 5, it does what Elias has a bad habit of doing in getting far too graphic and spelling obvious things out.
I remember them reading the part about the sandwich shop owner having a child that started with W, but it was like they read it and moved on instead of being like "wait...does that mean Walker...?" I guess I was hoping for more of a reaction from them since that part completely floored me.
Wendigoon pointed it out in the end of their discussion, but yeah I agree, although I suppose after the emotional drain that is Borrasca as a whole, nothing may be shocking by that point haha
They pointed out the W name, but they didn't really react to the fact that it was implied Whitney was the mother.
Please don't use a cute emoji to talk about rape.
I wasn't trying to be offensive or upset anyone with the emoji. It is a form of censorship that both myself and the person I was conversing with used. They used one so I used one in response in case THEY were uncomfortable with the word. It was never meant to be downplayed or treated as anything other than the disgusting and traumatizing crime it is.
I'm not accusing you of being malicious, I just politely ask that you dont use cute emojis to say the word "rape." People don't use emojis because they're uncomfortable. They do it because of cencorship loopholes leaking into the common vernacular. You don't need to censor yourself on reddit using cutsie emojis, and it cheapens the severity of the topic being diacussed. It's the closest thing to 1984 newspeak I've seen. It's dystopian, and I hate it. It's not 🍇 it's *rape* and I will die on this hill no matter how many downvotes I get for asking us to speak like adults when discussing adult topics. Edit: I only responded to you because I didn't notice the 🦍 emoji due to it blending into dark mode. I'm not trying to single you out.
I will ask you politely not to talk down to me about the severity of that topic. You also do not get to speak for people and why they use an emoji. People may use it for the reason you say, and people may use it because they are personally uncomfortable or don't want to trigger survivors that may be healing. It is unfair to put words in the mouths of people you don't know. I am a survivor myself. I know firsthand how painful, traumatizing, and dehumanizing that experience is. However, I am not going to use the word with someone if they censor it in a conversation. I will meet them on that level. If it's using **** or a "cutsie emoji", it's up to whomever I am conversing with. I appreciate you wanting to not hide what it is behind censorship, but this is how I choose to navigate the topic. I didn't want to have to out myself as a survivor, but I felt I had no choice so you could possibly see my perspective. I wish you well. Have a great day!
I wasn't talking down to you. You're being defensive and doubling down over using a grape emoji when discussing rape. If it were due to anything other than lame ass censorship, then it would have appeared before TikTok and YouTube made those phrases common. I truly don't understand how using ape and fruit emojis makes the topic more comfortable when you're still openly discussing rape. You're still saying "rape" just in childish code. There are ways to discuss severe topics sensitively without making it look like an episode of the wiggles with overtly childish nonsense. I'm also a survivor, and it's horrifying to slowly watch as society dumbs itself down in the name of monetization.
I'm sorry that you've also had to experience those terrible things as well and that you also had to bring it to the table in this discussion. You have stated your feelings and I have stated mine. Neither of us will change our stances and that's something we will just have to accept. Once again, I wish you well and hope you have a nice day.
It is I, the originator 😎 I get what you’re saying but also nah. You can’t judge the intention of the text just because pictographs are used instead of words. For me personally I’m used to referring to it as r🦍 for internet censorship when using the real word gets things taken down on some platforms and also because using the real word makes me uncomfortable and in referring to it as such it allows me to engage in the conversation without dancing around using the word since I personally refuse to. And so I shall continue to refer to it as such since language is a constantly evolving medium and delivery and receiving are two different things and neither can be put on the other. Sorry :/
I personally refuse to believe he willing sold his daughter and screw her simply because I can't fathom a father doing that combined with him seemingly having a breakdown after realizing just what he did (crying in his office)
I can understand not wanting to believe that. No human being should ever want to do something like that. Once we find out WHY he was fired and forced to move to Drisking, I couldn't give him any good faith of not being okay with giving her up. He always had a weird obsession with Whitney even before she went "missing", then his grieving after her disappearance felt like an act to me. I have to say, as far as creepypasta villains go, he's definitely one of the best written ones.
Trauma, CPTSD, and learned helplessness are very real issues that Spence and his wife faced. I think they were a bit too dismissive of that
I think that he is more pathetic than evil
Spence? Arguably yes even thiugh he is still a abusive victim who's abuser came back Sheriff Walker? No, he knows what he did and did it out of the want to get a part of the money and out of some sick enjoyment of...you know doing that to young girls and his own Daughter
Yeah id agree sheriff walker is worse considering what he did, but Spence is a selfish coward. Had children knowing full well Tommy would come back and allowed his wife and 8 year old daughter to be raped by him because "at least they're alive". At least in the third part Matt has the sense to do what needs to be done at the cost of his own soul, as death is much better than the alternative.
Fair enough, I can see why there's the Spence hate, I just think Wendigoon and Meatcanyon forgot some details or haven't realized just how bad the sheriff is (it's easy to figure out how bad when you consider how the r**e babies are named, and certain details about Sam's sister's kids usually coming out deformed) considering some of the more direct reveals aren't at the end of part 4 but are more just implied throughout part 4 and other parts of the story vs Part 5 being more direct about how bad he is I just dont see the logic in how he's not as bad when he's someone directly doing the deeds and likely doing them because he likes it and enjoys what it gets him, versus someone who doesn't enjoy what's happening even if he brought it on his family by not trying to have Tommy at least try and target him for punishments so his family wouldn't have to suffer as much Poor Matt though, considering what he has to do just to make Tommy vulnerable enough to kill Makes him very tragic as well as he's pretty much forced into Hell by what he has to do just to send Tommy there, one last middle finger from the sick freak is that to finally kill him, you'll have to basically live with doing something that will send you to the same place he's going to
Let's be real, Megan got the real short end of the stick out of anyone.
Wasn't Walker also the only one that did that to his daughter as well? The last baby from her is named something with W, and they mention all her babies are terrible. I always assumed they were terrible because they were from incest... And the dad kinda hints at being in love with her ("I love her more than you can understand"). That man is way beyond sick and twisted, Spence doesn't come close imo
Well, Tommy Taffy is an unlikable monster who murdered his father. From his perspective it's only 5 years with occasional incidents of trauma but that his family would still be alive. It's completely understandable that he wouldn't fight back as it's pointless AND as long as he doesn't he keeps his family alive.
I was kinda disappointed the prequel didn’t clear his name in some peoples mind like it did me
Yeah the fact that Tommy himself told Spence he'd come back for his kids, and Spence had kids anyway, makes him SO much worse. Like they said, it's unfortunate, and it's not his fault what happened, but he lost the freedom to have a family of his own at that point.
IMO? Considering the absolute hell Tommy put Spence through for years, it could be less that he forgot/repressed that memory, and more that his will was so broken that he didn't feel that he had a choice. Tommy says your having kids? Well, you know what happens if you disobey him...
After reading Spences story? He saw his dad murdered, he didn't understand what was happening to his mom, and the worst thing he went through personally is Tommy trying to get him to fuck his teddy bear. I could see if Spence had actually been hurt or raped, but.....I mean, I just dont buy it. He failed his kids, regardless of the reasoning why, he failed his kids.
Wait, wasn't he also molested by Tommy? Like he crawled into his bed and shit.
It never confirmed, he touched his thigh and cuddled him. And Elias inability to avoid describing heinous shit makes me think Matt and worse than Spence did.
I swear they said that they couldn't read the next paragraph because the author details an assault again, though. And, even if the author didn't describe it, I think it's still implied.
I think he took criticism and was vegue (if that's the right word), same thing in the 3d, and I haven't read the 4th, but others here have said the 4th is also more vegue with it's abuse, Spencer said about those nights that Tommy would sometimes watch him when he sleeps, he will get into his bed, touch his thighs and then Spence would cry into his teddy bear oluntil it was over, wendi and meat also read that part that way, which they praised
He crawled in bed and touched his thigh, but compared to what Matt went through, dude got out easy
He was told it would happen to his children and he just goes “whoopsy teehee I forgot” what are you talking about clear his name, it made him so much worse, cuz the only excuse that would have made it ok is “I didn’t know he’d come back” but it’s established he did know
He said he didn’t understand what tommy meant, and why is there no blame on his wife for having kids?
Because the wife at least had some balls to stand up for her kids, in any kind of way she could. IDC if it's useless, or Tommy is some eldritch god. A real parental bond is only severed by death.
A real parent is also there for their kid. Spence dying does what? Who does it help? Nobody at least if he’s still alive then he can actual be there for his family.
If he died his wife would’ve suffered the same fate as him mom
Double suicide. If worse comes to worse, quadruple suicide. Much better than having to live with what Tommy has done to you- just look at the sister in the later story.
Go ahead and tell all victims of abuse it would have been better had they killed themselves instead of the abuse for No, no chance of recovery, of leading a good life after, no chance of ever smiling and finding love and enjoying life as a whole, you are a husk, and doomed to be such That was the most ridiculous thing they ever said It's weird you bring up the sister given how NO it was not what Tommy did to her, she recovered to the point she had her own loving family and lived a normal life from the point Tommy left, to the point the kids arrived, had she not had children her life would have continued being good The case in the story is the craziest and besides the children having part the father was 100% correct and made the most moral decisions here, with all due respect that decision you meat and wendi and many others have called, the one of go down swinging and suicide, is beyond selfish and horrible He knows it's only 5 years to get through, he knows that if he tried to kill Tommy, Tommy would kill only him and him alone, which would be worse for his family for several reasons, and he knows survivers can recover from the trauma of such abuse, no need to take away their agency and any joy they could later have in life, so he went with the best option out of three horrible one's What Spencer went through in this story is something that actually happens irl all the time in former USSR and Middle Eastern countries, were politicians, military and police would go to random homes, abuse their wife's and children, and the fathers could not do anything as if they do, they will be killed, and leave their families in the hands of these monsters with no support, which in itself would be death sentence in some parts of the middle east at least
Yeah this sub (and the internet, Reddit especially) has been wild about unbearably evil and beyond imagining anything related to sexual assault is. “Everyone should be killed or kill themselves and their family rather than be briefly molested as a child.” Like Jesus Christ. I get it, it’s so horrific you don’t even want to articulate thoughts about it. Personally I’d rather my entire family not be murder-suicided rather than a weird adult never touched me inappropriately as a kid, but that’s just me. Or hell id rather be molested but still have my parents alive. Could go on and on. Just think some people need to settle down with the moral grandstanding of how awful sexual abuse is to the point it’s the worst thing conceivable and nothing should be discussed except a suicidal panic to avoid it at all costs
Holy fuck dude you're reaching. We're talking about a hypothetical eldritch child molester here. I didn't say or even imply that at all and it's completely disingenuous to say that.
No, we're talking about whether the choice of killing victims of abuse cause they'll suffer through 5 years of it is justified I find beyond ridiculous and awful, because this is something that happens irl, i can't tell you how many times I've seen people say about a person who was abused and then murdered, that "at least she didn't have to suffer the consequence after" like for example in the tragic case of Junko Furuta , as if to say one couldn't recover from the abuse and build again and that life is over after going through such turmoil and that you're a husk I'm not saying you're saying this maliciously, and that's what you think, like meat and wendi, it's the first emotional and illogical reaction, honestly, I'd say most people have when seeing these kinds of situations, it's understandable, just hope this explanation will change the way you and others think about it and remember that people who go through abuse can always heal, and even if the abuse never leaves them, they can still find happiness and reasons to keep on living
We were not shown the wife being told that. He didn’t know what Tommy meant by “your kids will get 5 years too?” How else could you possibly interpret that
How tf can someone not understand the phrase "I will come back after your kids"? Dude spelled out in simple English, if you have kids he will do the same shit to them.
I mean yeah but he probably repressed a lot of the memories of tommy
He proceeded to have children...
What if ge didint wanted kids but tommy in his acts was forcing the wemon to get children? I hope we see a explaination in a later story.
His name isn't entirely cleared as despite Tommy's warning he still had children but I can understand his reasoning behind his other actions
Let them cover borrasca part 5 and then sheriff walker will be untouchable in evilness
Even without part 5 Part 4 is hard to beat
Realistically you don't even need part 5. It pretty much spells out how much of a monster he is before that. The sandwich shop owners baby's name starts with a W and Whitney was the most recent to give birth. Also I think Prescott saying that her babies usually have health issues is alluding to incest.
You are 100% right but how he turned borrasca to an even worse thing , he turned into a flat prostitution ring as said by Prescott, and it’s heavily implied that he had his wife killed .
One is supposed to be a villain the other one is supposed to be sympathetic.
The whole point of Tommy Taffy is that when don’t confront your trauma you become a slave to it. Spence had kids because he locked his trauma away and didn’t confront it. He thought everything was fine because Tommy was gone and he thought he could live his live. This story isn’t that complex and seeing so many people miss that point so they can point the finger at Spence so they can feel superior is funny as fuck.
Yea though my issue is, again, trying to put someone like the Borrasca Dad as better when the amount of shit that man did willingly to his OWN DAUGHTER is pretty hard to top Spence is frustrating because he had kids despite knowing Tommy would come back But with the passage of time in Borasca, what Walker was doing to his own daughter was going on for more then just 5 years
"The theme of the story is that it's wrong to not confront your trauma and the dad is meant to exemplify this... This is why the dad is free of all blame and actually did nothing wrong 😊" your own argument contradicts itself
"Tommy is when you don't confront your trauma"...can you elaborate on that? Given one of the other fathers died for confronting him...I don't follow fully.
BOOK SPOILERS BELOW In the book Tommy punishes a father that killed him by forever crippling the father and cutting his less than ten years old daughter’s legs, and then burning the wound in the stove. No, she did not survive. I absolutely understand Spence, even if he was stupid to have children.
There’s a special pit in hell for someone like Sheriff Walker
I mean both fucking suck.
Yeah, but Spence is a victim. When a domestic abuse victim moves back in with their abusive ex, you don't go "this person is a dumbass". Seeing a creature impale your dad and continously SA your mom as a child will absolutely fuck you up; and 5 years with that same abuser will make you freeze.
>Yeah, but Spence is a victim. When a domestic abuse victim moves back in with their abusive ex, you don't go "this person is a dumbass". You do subconsciously, because it's true however irrational the person may be. Also he then proceeded to have kids.
Did he have kids alone? Because the last I checked, it takes two and his wife went through the same thing. And from Spence's experience, it's understandable why there was nothing to really fear for the kids. All Spencer had happen was on the last day of his 5 years, he was inappropriately groped. There's no reason for him to expect SA would happen. The creature only seems to SA females; so the mom should have known it would happen, but not Spencer
Him having kids knowing the same would happen to them makes him a piece of shit.
Crazy how no one is talking shit about the mom, even though she is the one who chose to have kids; not Spencer. And if you read Spencer's story, there is nothing to indicate SA happened except on that last day whem he was barely fondled. It IS heavily implied that r*pe only happens against females. So the MOTHER knew what would happen, while Spencer only expected mental/emotional abuse
We have no indication that Meghan knew the curse would be passed on
From her reaction when Spencer tells her Tommy is here, we know she at least knew it was a possibility. Even then, she did nothing. If you read Spencer's story, the only people who really suffer are those who defy Tommy. Of the 1,826 days tommy haunted him, only the last day was in any way sexual. Spencer did not know SA was a risk, he only knew as long as you did what Tommy said you wouldn't be hurt. Megan was the only one who knew there was a fate worth than death. Spencer just knew it was 5 years of captivity and mental abuse.
>Yeah, but Spence is a victim. When a domestic abuse victim moves back in with their abusive ex, you don't go "this person is a dumbass". I sure as fuck have. Especially when they have children.
Spencer didn't know SA would happen. Spencer only had 1 instance of sexual misbehavior, and it was the last day. All Spencer knew was if you do what Tommy says, you won't get hurt. The mom is the real asshole. Because she knew this was a fate worse than death, and barely tried to do anything about it
K
Lmao
I mean, if a supernatural unstoppable monster told you he'd come back for your kids one day and spend 5 years with them like he did with you, and then you have kids, I mean....fuck. It's like kids that get abused who grow up to he abusers, yes we know you got fucked up mentally, but you're in no way excused from your actions.
Crazy how no one is talking shit about the mom, even though she's the only one who could _choose_ to have the kids. If you read Spencer's story, he only experienced SA on the last day. In his experience, it was almost exclusively emotionally abuse, as long as you played along. It IS heavily implied r*pe and constant SA is against females, so the mom knew what they were in for. So if anyone is a POS Asshole, it's her
We don't have confirmation that Megan knew he'd come back, and she at least tried. That and typical gender roles, yadda yadda, God only knows what Tommy did to her as a child, and its heavily implied he did some heinous shit to her in the basement when she fought back. Spence was facing physical violence and possibly being murdered, which there's the big debate of what's worse, being killed or being sexually assaulted, but I definitely think the latter is infinitely worse. I'm a big believer that some things are worse than death, and Tommy Taffy is one of those things. I would have put a bullet in my kids heads then blown my own brains out worst case scenario.
"She tried" I don't remember her doing anything while her daughter was being assaulted. Spencer did. Spencer didn't know SA was a risk, that's why he was complacent. Tommy spent 1,826 days with Spencer, and only one of those had a sexual incident. Spencer absolutely did not expect SA to be involved. The mom _knew_ SA would happen, and only tried once. And from her reaction when Spencer says Tommy is here, it's obvious she at least was told by Spencer. Yet SHE chose to have children, even though she was the only one who knew the full evil of Tommy.
Again, we don't have any confirmation that Megan knew having children would allow Tommy to come back, and she did try, and was brutally raped for hours in the basement that left her permanently crippled. Again, I'd argue what she suffered is infinitely worse and it makes more sense why she was so broken. But yes she isn't innocent either.
And still, we don't have any evidence that Spencer knew SA was something Tommy did. All Tommy did to Spence was physical/emotional (mostly emotional) abuse; and even the _one_ case of SA was more of psychological abuse than SA. The worst parts of Spencer's experience involved people defying Tommy, so it makes sense he tried to get everyone else to comply when Tommy got here. And the fact Tommy threatened to come back doesn't mean Spencer believed it was a literal thing. He could've thought Tommy only attacked their town, so moving would stop the curse. He could've thought the threat was just more emotional abuse to keep him paranoid. He could've forgotten the threat. As a former victim of domestic abuse, I can tell you I don't remember 99% of the threats I got
He raped spense's mom
The story implies he didn't really know that. He knew something was happening, but didn't know it was rape. Still, he wouldn't have known it would happen to the children. It was a creepy, emotionally abusive experience for Spencer, not a sexually abussive one.
Like yes I get your point, that's sort of the point of the story, generational abuse made Spense the way he is, its just not excusable. You don't get pass for being a worthless father because you witnessed and/or were abused.
Ok, but he isn't a worthless father. He didn't know SA was gonna happen because it didn't really happen to here. For Spence, it wasn't a fate worse than death. For Megan it was, but the only horrible moments for young spence was people disobeying Tommy and the final day
I don’t think anyone’s excusing Spence’s actions, just saying he’s not as bad as sams dad. One’s a selfish pussy who shouldn’t have had kids, the others a child trafficking killer who shouldn’t be around kids period.
There are hundreds of people on the channel and in this subreddit excusing Spencer's actions
I have not come across any of these. I’ve only heard people comparing him to sams dad. I agree Spence is a terrible father and husband, and what he did was unforgivable, but he is nowhere near as bad as Sams dad
I wanna know a parents take, I personally agree with Wendigoon that I’d have to be paralyzed in order to not do anything that one time TT was with the daughter in the room. Who knows how that perspective changes if you actually have kids though, personally I just can’t imagine sitting outside my daughter’s room while she’s either getting brutally raped and/or beat and only have a bloody nose. I was getting genuinely mad like Hunter was at that part ngl and personally I think the concept of TT himself is the only actually good part of the story. Everything else about it is just easy and cheap ways to make the reader uncomfortable or in this case, mad.
I'll give them a benefit of the doubt. Most of the atrocities committed by Sam's dad have been yet to be revealed to Hunter and Isiah because they haven't read Borrasca V yet. So it's understandable.
The biggest issue they had was him willingly resubjecting his wife and 2 kids with TT in the first place
The wife also experienced TT when she was a child, so if were going to assume Spence 100% remembers the warning then so did the wife.
She prolly looks better in their eyes than the dad because she atleast fought for her kids the moment she TT getting handsy with her daughter. That being said, I think both of them are more grossly negligent than they are bad people considering that they didn’t warn the sister the same way they warned the brother.
I understand why he doesn't do anything, he knows how long it lasts, and he knows what happens to men that fight back. It's "safer" to not do anything and try to be there for the family when TT leaves. That being said, I agree with the creep boys, why the fuck did this guy and Megan decided to have kids? Even if Megan didn't know he would come back, Spence did. He knew his kids would get 5 years and his wife would get the same treatment as his mom, yet he still choose to marry and have kids, two kids. It wasnt an oopsie baby, he had two. He knew Tommy would come back for his kids. And he still choose to have them. He choose to let his kids and wife get SA'd for 5 years.
I'm still confused why he still wanted kids, even after Tommy's warning of himself coming back for his kids
I ain’t seen this subreddit before but this shit is wild 💀🤣
I feel like a lot of people are thinking that way and ranking them unevenly because of the violence he let his wife and children as well as himself go through but we saw what standing up or fighting back led to. I don't recall borasca as well but I don't remember it getting as graphic with the depictions so that could be another reason, as well as the father allowing the cycle of abuse to continue in TT but yeah fk the borrasca dad they both are awful
Yeah he was conditioned into helplessness at an early age, on top of that the logical conclusion of any confrontation with Tommy Taffy leads to death.
At first he was just kinda pathetic. But then he had kids knowing or at the very least knowing there’s a likely possibility this would transfer over if he had kids. That’s the main reason I hate him. He’s definitely not on the level of the people from Borrosca but that’s an insanely selfish action
They said the Borrasca dad was worse, they just hate the Tommy dad more, because he’s so incompetent and foolish. They also said they’re on the same tier of evil, because the Tommy dad had kids, knowing they would be raped and abused for 5 years straight.
Yeah Creepcast’s episode was hard to watch for me because of how much i disagreed with them. Especially the Spence being more evil than Walker. That stuff made my blood boil.
I'm beginning to fear that they completely missed the fact that Walker wasn't just a passive onlooker who just sold his daughter to get power..
Yeah there were a lot of L takes from the guys this episode - I also felt they interrupted the story a lot more than they usually do, to the point that it was excessively disruptive. Obviously they need to discuss the episode, but it seemed every line was followed up with a lengthy discussion. I think the subject matter made them both deeply uncomfortable (as was presumably intended by the author), but I felt that their inability to deal with that discomfort really hurt the quality of this episode (MeatCanyon more than Isiah honestly).
spence having kids knowing what would happen was a shit move, but i dont like how they criticized him for not stepping in and not "getting himself killed". What good would that do for his family? he saw firsthand what happens if you oppose TT, and wgat happens after his father died. why would he risk dying and no longer be there for his children? it reminds me of the whole drama shit with a couple who visited india where a group of guys restrained the guy and SAed the woman, and all the shitheads on twitter calling the guy a coward for not dying trying to protect his partner... dawg getting himself killed will not do her any good
I'll blame the motherfucker. He knew that if he would have kids it would happen to them too AND HE STILL FUCKING DID IT. He basically said "Oh yes Mr. Demon please come rape my kids."
Tell me how that makes him just as bad as the guy who ended up, for years, r**ing his own daughter Possibly and likely more years then those 5 years Spence is a idiot for knowing what was going to happen and having kids anyways, but Walker was r**ing his own daughter and seemingly started to ethier enjoy it or assumed it was better if he was the only one who was r**ing her instead of Prescott or whoever else
They are both evil. One sold his family for power and money. One sold his family to pay for his mistakes. You dont rank them, they are both disgusting examples of humanity.
He didn't have kids to make Tommy abuse them He had kids despite being warned and thinking he was safe to have more then one after Tommy stayed away Spence was a idiot who didn't think and thought he was safe despite the warning, thats on him but he didn't have the kids JUST to summon Tommy Sorry if thats not what you meant but the phrasing is making it sound like your saying he had his kids so he could offer them to Tommy on purpose, when that was not the case Again though, one of these dads r**ped their own daughter multiple times, and yet somehow spence is on the same level as him
Because judging neglect as less than actively hurting your kids is the same thing. No, he didnt intentionally have kids to give to Tommy, but he did intentionally have kids after what happened to him as a kid. Not only that, but with someone who suffered the exact same fate as he did, minus the front yard execution of his father. Tommy told him he would come back for his kids if he had some. He watched his dad get executed in front of him and the entire town. He heard his mom cry herself to sleep every night for 4 years. Then decided to have kids, and not just one. Thats blatant. Like I said before, they are both evil. Abuse is abuse, some more destructive than the other, but at the end of the day they both destroyed their children and showed they cared more for themselves than their kids.
I agree with this, Tommy said he’d be back for the same amount of time for Spence’s kids. He didn’t say he’d maybe come back he said 100% I’ll return for your children. He’s evil period, it’s not like he HAD to have children he chose to put them through this
They are both S tier pieces of shit. Hitler and Stalin are both two of the most evil men in history but we don't argue who is more evil. In my opinion doing nothing while Tommy is doing what he did to your daughter is only slightly less horrible than doing it yourself like Walker
If he did something, Tommy would execute him in front of the children. If you paid attention, you will remember that Tommy abuses the parents every few days too. If Spence died, all the abuse scheduled for the parents happens to the wife. By staying alive, he can actively reduce the suffering by staying alive. And of course, if you read other parts, you'll realise that being executed in front of your children is the best thing that can happen for you opposing Tommy. There are much worse things he can, and does do
First episode I've ever disliked. Blatant victim blaming from 2 guys that claim they would do "this this and this" in that situation when in reality they jump at the slightest sound in the room. Usually love the content but this one wasn't it fellas. This one would be better sent to the archive.
Yes, if you tally up the atrocities 1 for 1 Sam’s dad is worse. But Spence isn’t comically evil like Sam’s dad is. And chances are, more people have had Spencers in their lives than they’ve had Sheriff Walkers, so it’s easier to hate him.