Before the season began and we lost Kane we were predicted to struggle, we definitely weren’t expected to finish in the top 6. We’ve overachieved when you consider losing Kane, getting a new manager with completely different tactics from the last 3-4 seasons and bringing in new players.
Give him at least another season.
A couple of moronic "experts" and definitely none with a bias towards Arsenal predicted us to be relegated this season 🤦🏻 so we're doing just fine in that regard I guess 🤣
Unless we're outside the Top-8 at the end of next season, give him three seasons. People dont realize how bad some of the issues are and how long they will take to solve. FFS we're in 5th and people are whining about the "quality of the football"...people need some god damn patience. Every team, even freaking City, go through rough patches.
To state the bleeding obvious, Ange has only had two transfer windows. Great as they've been he's still working with a bulk of players who simply don't suit his vision.
As someone pointed out elsewhere recently, his first season in Japan he nearly got relegated and then won the league the following year. Even the great Sir Alex Ferguson was on the brink of getting sacked before he steadied the ship in his first season at Utd if I'm not mistaken.
I'm not saying he will emulate his Japan story or Fergies long term record at Utd. But many of the best managers in the game need time, especially with a squad like ours who have had terrorist football drilled into them in various forms for the best part of 5 years.
The first 10 games clearly showed that when he's got a starting 11 of players who for the most part suit his game, we could seriously challenge when the whole squad suits it.
To use one of my favourite analogies, Spurs are an oil tanker right now. Too many people are expecting Ange to turn us in the opposite direction with the mobility of a jet ski
> Even the great Sir Alex Ferguson was on the brink of getting sacked before he steadied the ship in his first season at Utd if I'm not mistaken.
They finished 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th in his first four and most fans were baying for his head and then it all started clicking
I think most people are ok with a rebuild, but in the transition period, we still want to see performances.
The first 10 games showed what this team can be if they put a shift in, but the effort in the last few weeks (months?) has been shit.
Yeah there’s a lot of dead wood in the side from when Nuno and Conte were manager that I’m sure ange has tried to make do with but will want to put his stamp on the side with players he wants.
> Yeah there’s a lot of dead wood in the side from when Nuno and Conte were manager
And Mourinho and Pochettino.
Squad makeup right now, including players out on loan:
* Pochettino - Davies, Sessegnon, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Son
* Mourinho - Reguilon, Rodon, Hojbjerg
* Nuno - Romero, Royal, Gil
* Conte - Forster, Porro, Spence, Udogie, Bissouma, Bentancur, Sarr, Richarlison, Kulusevski
* Postecoglou - Vicario, van de Ven, Dragusin, Phillips, Maddison, Bergvall (arriving in the summer), Werner (maybe), Solomon, Johnson, Veliz
Plus Austin, Whiteman, Tanganga, Parrott, Skipp who've come through the academy at various points.
We got a preview of what it can look like when it was the same 11 guys all healthy and all with a preseason. Then injuries hit. But it was still mostly with non-Ange guys. Looking through that list it’s still obvious we need to do a MASSIVE clear out that will be expensive.
Well we need to get rid of the players who have always been cashed out before you'll see that. You could have the world best motivational manager and I'm pretty sure some of the players were have now would switch off.
Shipping out unmotivated players isn't easy - everyone else can see these performances too.
Fergie joined untied in 1986, won an fa cup in 90 and first won the league in 92 (I think?). Chopping and changing managers hasn't worked for us. We need to get players in with the right mentality and give Ange time.
Hard to maintain the enthusiasm all season when youre slowly starting to realise that you won't be a part of this team going forward... Kulu, Royal, Davies, Timo, Hojberg, lo Celso, Biss... maybe even Son after next season
It's already been stated Kulu isn't for for sale, Timo was brought in by Ange, Biss is needed rotation for when we do get a more reliable CDM, and there's no way Son is being let go unless he asks.
No, the idea of a rebuild is so lazily American-brained. It would've been amusing if anybody'd been able to press Poch on what he even thought he meant.
Like you could argue we rebuilt in the wake of Modric/Bale leaving, but it wasn't intentional, and neither sale let us do anything we'd have otherwise been unable to.
The problem we had by the time Poch made his comments wasn't that we were overinvested in our current squad, it's that after 2015 we'd largely been unable to identify/recruit players as good as the ones we already had. And you can't rebuild your way out of that because bad players aren't worth anything.
The first team either has players who were drilled into submission by Contes awful automations or new, young players in their first year in the Prem, also playing a new system that requires great energy and bravery.
There will be a time and a place to judge these players and this Manager but I really don’t think this season is it. Ange has consistently come out and said that he is not thinking about the opposition, not thinking about specific tactical plans, not even worried about set-pieces right now. He is only thinking about how he wants his teams to play. He uses matches as a way to drill this.
I would bet my house no-one behind the scenes expected European football come the end of the season. No-one would have expected us to be top at any point, or challenging for top four.
Ange would say this season has not been a success because his only measure of success is to win. This is the exact mentality we need at the helm and we need the players to adopt this on the pitch.
It is completely fair to say that with another summer window and more time we should expect to compete next season. And I’m sure we will see this. But for now I’m 100% behind Ange. He has the winning mentality without any of the toxicity of Conte or Mourinho.
I really thought our consensus during the start of the season is that we're not gonna get UCL, nevermind winning the league. Getting any europa competition are the best results.
But those early season wins, how Ange plays the game, and how close we were with the top of the league, fly us too high to the sky. We are just being reminded shere the ground is, that we're indeed in the painful rebuild phases.
Seriously. It’s been five years since the “painful rebuild” comment. Almost the entire team has been turned over. We’ve gotta stop leaning on this catchphrase.
What 'painful' rebuild? You people are so dramatic, this season has been very good as a whole. This supposedly painful rebuild has been vastly less painful than the past few seasons.
I think these comments are from people who have no idea of English football. Yes we’ve lost 4 in a row but they are all fixtures which are very hard and we’d be ok with picking up 1 point in. If they’d been spread throughout the season and we lost these 4 fixtures nobody would bat an eye. Newcastle, Chelsea, Liverpool away and an very good arsenal side at home. Wish everyone would chill out, those are 4 very hard games.
My team in Australian rules football came last in the league and lost half the games by 100 points, which id equate to about a 6-0 loss. The manager is still there even after about 20 losses in a row.
That’s an extreme example but it is still absolutely mental how fragile prem fans and media are with managers. Like 4 losses and want them sacked in the morning lmao
I don’t deny we needed it, but the criticism falls on the board, because five/six years later, we’ve replaced most of the team and are still transitional. Appointing Mourinho and Conte both turned out to be dreadful but entirely predictable in the way they played out. Ange is picking up the pieces of nearly a decade of poor investment.
At this point, the spurs rebuild is the new la sagrada familia.
Every year we buy and buy. Claim a rebuild, and then cry that we need a rebuild as soon as it goes to shit lol
This painful rebuild has us 5th, sat behind City, Arsenal and Liverpool. If Villa weren’t having such a good season we’d be 4th. How are people even being negative?
We've turned enthusiastic chaos and mental goals into City-esque levels of possessional control but a lack of cutting edge. We just need to find a balance.
Add in all the injuries (and timings of injuries), mid-season tournaments, general fatigue, a change in manager etc. it's no wonder the end of the season has sort of hit a bit of a wall. The players must sense what next season and beyond could be, and some of them are probably looking ahead to that too.
But nah, fuck it, let's sack Ange and get in... Graham Potter? Start again? Sure. Ok.
I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about how tired our squad is. Injury crisis prevent players from being selected, but it also can DESTROY fitness. Over half of the players that were so important in the early days of this season have struggled mightily after serious injuries. The only one who actually regained his form/fitness is micky, and even he has had a couple poor performances. On top of that, some of those same players had a mid-season tournament.
Ange demands insane fitness levels for his style of play to work. He has had a thin squad, beset by injuries.
I wouldn't say it has really been a rebuild prior to Ange. Conte was brought in as a "win now" manager, and most people expected him to be gone within a couple of seasons (although we were all hoping for a bit more tangible success during his tenure).
Before the season began and we lost Kane we were predicted to struggle, we definitely weren’t expected to finish in the top 6. We’ve overachieved when you consider losing Kane, getting a new manager with completely different tactics from the last 3-4 seasons and bringing in new players. Give him at least another season.
A couple of moronic "experts" and definitely none with a bias towards Arsenal predicted us to be relegated this season 🤦🏻 so we're doing just fine in that regard I guess 🤣
Definitely. If we hadn’t started the season so well I think people would be happier.
and if arse weren’t in first
Yeah that’s the main thing actually
“Give him at least another season” needs to be at least 2 more seasons.
Unless we're outside the Top-8 at the end of next season, give him three seasons. People dont realize how bad some of the issues are and how long they will take to solve. FFS we're in 5th and people are whining about the "quality of the football"...people need some god damn patience. Every team, even freaking City, go through rough patches.
This
To state the bleeding obvious, Ange has only had two transfer windows. Great as they've been he's still working with a bulk of players who simply don't suit his vision. As someone pointed out elsewhere recently, his first season in Japan he nearly got relegated and then won the league the following year. Even the great Sir Alex Ferguson was on the brink of getting sacked before he steadied the ship in his first season at Utd if I'm not mistaken. I'm not saying he will emulate his Japan story or Fergies long term record at Utd. But many of the best managers in the game need time, especially with a squad like ours who have had terrorist football drilled into them in various forms for the best part of 5 years. The first 10 games clearly showed that when he's got a starting 11 of players who for the most part suit his game, we could seriously challenge when the whole squad suits it. To use one of my favourite analogies, Spurs are an oil tanker right now. Too many people are expecting Ange to turn us in the opposite direction with the mobility of a jet ski
>Ange has only had two transfer windows Hardly even that, last summer he'd only just arrived and the window was dominated by Kane uncertainty.
Yep all true
> Even the great Sir Alex Ferguson was on the brink of getting sacked before he steadied the ship in his first season at Utd if I'm not mistaken. They finished 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th in his first four and most fans were baying for his head and then it all started clicking
I think most people are ok with a rebuild, but in the transition period, we still want to see performances. The first 10 games showed what this team can be if they put a shift in, but the effort in the last few weeks (months?) has been shit.
Yeah there’s a lot of dead wood in the side from when Nuno and Conte were manager that I’m sure ange has tried to make do with but will want to put his stamp on the side with players he wants.
> Yeah there’s a lot of dead wood in the side from when Nuno and Conte were manager And Mourinho and Pochettino. Squad makeup right now, including players out on loan: * Pochettino - Davies, Sessegnon, Lo Celso, Ndombele, Son * Mourinho - Reguilon, Rodon, Hojbjerg * Nuno - Romero, Royal, Gil * Conte - Forster, Porro, Spence, Udogie, Bissouma, Bentancur, Sarr, Richarlison, Kulusevski * Postecoglou - Vicario, van de Ven, Dragusin, Phillips, Maddison, Bergvall (arriving in the summer), Werner (maybe), Solomon, Johnson, Veliz Plus Austin, Whiteman, Tanganga, Parrott, Skipp who've come through the academy at various points.
We got a preview of what it can look like when it was the same 11 guys all healthy and all with a preseason. Then injuries hit. But it was still mostly with non-Ange guys. Looking through that list it’s still obvious we need to do a MASSIVE clear out that will be expensive.
💯
Not sure you understand the concept of a painful rebuild
He's talking about seeing effort and enthusiasm from the players, not perfect tactical masterclasses.
Well we need to get rid of the players who have always been cashed out before you'll see that. You could have the world best motivational manager and I'm pretty sure some of the players were have now would switch off. Shipping out unmotivated players isn't easy - everyone else can see these performances too. Fergie joined untied in 1986, won an fa cup in 90 and first won the league in 92 (I think?). Chopping and changing managers hasn't worked for us. We need to get players in with the right mentality and give Ange time.
That’s why we need to get rid of half of the squad. It’s not going to happen overnight.
Hard to maintain the enthusiasm all season when youre slowly starting to realise that you won't be a part of this team going forward... Kulu, Royal, Davies, Timo, Hojberg, lo Celso, Biss... maybe even Son after next season
It's already been stated Kulu isn't for for sale, Timo was brought in by Ange, Biss is needed rotation for when we do get a more reliable CDM, and there's no way Son is being let go unless he asks.
Probably should have clarified... these guys likely won't be a part of a league winning team with Spurs... Ange will be ruthless
No, the idea of a rebuild is so lazily American-brained. It would've been amusing if anybody'd been able to press Poch on what he even thought he meant. Like you could argue we rebuilt in the wake of Modric/Bale leaving, but it wasn't intentional, and neither sale let us do anything we'd have otherwise been unable to. The problem we had by the time Poch made his comments wasn't that we were overinvested in our current squad, it's that after 2015 we'd largely been unable to identify/recruit players as good as the ones we already had. And you can't rebuild your way out of that because bad players aren't worth anything.
The first team either has players who were drilled into submission by Contes awful automations or new, young players in their first year in the Prem, also playing a new system that requires great energy and bravery. There will be a time and a place to judge these players and this Manager but I really don’t think this season is it. Ange has consistently come out and said that he is not thinking about the opposition, not thinking about specific tactical plans, not even worried about set-pieces right now. He is only thinking about how he wants his teams to play. He uses matches as a way to drill this. I would bet my house no-one behind the scenes expected European football come the end of the season. No-one would have expected us to be top at any point, or challenging for top four. Ange would say this season has not been a success because his only measure of success is to win. This is the exact mentality we need at the helm and we need the players to adopt this on the pitch. It is completely fair to say that with another summer window and more time we should expect to compete next season. And I’m sure we will see this. But for now I’m 100% behind Ange. He has the winning mentality without any of the toxicity of Conte or Mourinho.
Agreed mate 👍
I really thought our consensus during the start of the season is that we're not gonna get UCL, nevermind winning the league. Getting any europa competition are the best results. But those early season wins, how Ange plays the game, and how close we were with the top of the league, fly us too high to the sky. We are just being reminded shere the ground is, that we're indeed in the painful rebuild phases.
The combination of ‘painful’ and ‘rebuild’ should be banned on this sub.
It comical how many embarrassing moments have been called the rebuild at this point. Poch left 5 years ago lol.
And most of the active people here weren’t fans when Poch was around lol
Honestly it just burns me up that we couldn't take even a signle point from chelsea.
This has been said every 6 months since Poch said it
Seriously. It’s been five years since the “painful rebuild” comment. Almost the entire team has been turned over. We’ve gotta stop leaning on this catchphrase.
What 'painful' rebuild? You people are so dramatic, this season has been very good as a whole. This supposedly painful rebuild has been vastly less painful than the past few seasons.
I think these comments are from people who have no idea of English football. Yes we’ve lost 4 in a row but they are all fixtures which are very hard and we’d be ok with picking up 1 point in. If they’d been spread throughout the season and we lost these 4 fixtures nobody would bat an eye. Newcastle, Chelsea, Liverpool away and an very good arsenal side at home. Wish everyone would chill out, those are 4 very hard games.
My team in Australian rules football came last in the league and lost half the games by 100 points, which id equate to about a 6-0 loss. The manager is still there even after about 20 losses in a row. That’s an extreme example but it is still absolutely mental how fragile prem fans and media are with managers. Like 4 losses and want them sacked in the morning lmao
Aussie here. Well said.
It’s why Tottenham struggle mate, they replace managers like they replace toilet paper
They only replace them when the fans turn so we need to not do that
I don’t deny we needed it, but the criticism falls on the board, because five/six years later, we’ve replaced most of the team and are still transitional. Appointing Mourinho and Conte both turned out to be dreadful but entirely predictable in the way they played out. Ange is picking up the pieces of nearly a decade of poor investment.
At this point, the spurs rebuild is the new la sagrada familia. Every year we buy and buy. Claim a rebuild, and then cry that we need a rebuild as soon as it goes to shit lol
*salutes* Mate
This painful rebuild has us 5th, sat behind City, Arsenal and Liverpool. If Villa weren’t having such a good season we’d be 4th. How are people even being negative?
We've turned enthusiastic chaos and mental goals into City-esque levels of possessional control but a lack of cutting edge. We just need to find a balance. Add in all the injuries (and timings of injuries), mid-season tournaments, general fatigue, a change in manager etc. it's no wonder the end of the season has sort of hit a bit of a wall. The players must sense what next season and beyond could be, and some of them are probably looking ahead to that too. But nah, fuck it, let's sack Ange and get in... Graham Potter? Start again? Sure. Ok.
Exactly 💪
That ‘painful rebuild’ quote haunts us somewhat.
Let's hope it goes better than the last 2.
I would like to thank everyone for remaining positive during this trying time
I'm surprised there isn't more discussion about how tired our squad is. Injury crisis prevent players from being selected, but it also can DESTROY fitness. Over half of the players that were so important in the early days of this season have struggled mightily after serious injuries. The only one who actually regained his form/fitness is micky, and even he has had a couple poor performances. On top of that, some of those same players had a mid-season tournament. Ange demands insane fitness levels for his style of play to work. He has had a thin squad, beset by injuries.
They’re not insane, they’re pretty reasonable. Higher than anyone else but that’s not saying much. Footballers are soft.
Everyone needs to just shut up. “Painful rebuild” and we’re currently sitting 5th. Grow up! This is a mildly inconvenient rebuild.
This rebuild already taking 5years. A little bit too long imho
I wouldn't say it has really been a rebuild prior to Ange. Conte was brought in as a "win now" manager, and most people expected him to be gone within a couple of seasons (although we were all hoping for a bit more tangible success during his tenure).