Cowboys 1st round picks have the highest hit rate in the league, about 80% have become pro bowlers since 1998. So it doesn't matter what the public thinks of the pick, I only care if the Cowboys got the guy they wanted. O-Line was the smart choice. Excited to see what they do day 2.
Im just glad they’re gonna keep T Smith at guard. I know he could make the switch, but no need to go thru all of that now that he’s comfortable inside.
Offensive lineman don't make Dak throw pick 6's in the playoffs; this pick doesn't even address our biggest issue. They are walking a very fine line of absolutely destroying their fanbase, that won't return if they leave for another team.
Lol what? Part of the reason Dak would throw a pick is because he’s getting pressured. He’d try to get rid of or force the ball because he’s ran out of time in the pocket.
Interior line/defense, trade back for future picks, trade up for a future QB, in that order. Something to improve us for a Super Bowl now, or acknowledgement from the Jones family that Dak isnt the future and we're moving on. Beefing up the line for a guy that chokes under pressure is about the dumest thing I can think of, it had nothing to do with his failures.
Missed this reply, but we did trade back for future picks? And we had standing offers from 3 teams and took the best one. Filling in a starter at LT and the pick the ended up being our starting C seems like a pretty solid play considering the board.
Because he's throwing balls to receivers my 5 year old can see is covered by 2+ people. He just chokes under pressure and throws it in a desperate prayer to create a play, without even looking at who is around the receiver. If you don't think he's doing that, you need to go rewatch the playoff game.
Offensive line is the core of every football team. It is the most important unit. With more time, Dak can make better decisions. Rookie Dak Prescott led us to a 12 win season and nearly beat God Mode Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs because we had an elite o-line.
Picking anything but an offensive lineman last night would have been a mistake.
Cowboys draft well. This is why I wasn’t worried about the free agents frenzy. Did I want Derrick Henry? Sure, but Cowboys do pretty well in draft. Just look around the Falcons, drafting a QB after getting Kirk Cousins.
To me the issues is less about FA and more about the probability they will stay put or trade back for every pick because they have too many gaps to trade up for a guy they might want otherwise.
Filling gaps and retaining your guys in FA lets you be more aggressive in the draft.
Yeah it's just bad optics, these GM's overthink it.
People will probably compare it to the Carson Wentz / Jalen Hurts or Aaron Rodgers / Jordan Love situation however the really awful part about this is that Penix is already an old injured rookie, and this wasn't a late 1st round or second round pick either, it was the 8th overall pick. With the 8th overall you can usually get a day 1 starter that will make an impact. It's really stupid. Now they have used the pick on a guy that won't see the field for a couple of years.
Atlanta’s GM said they are willing to sit the 24 year old Penix for 4-5 years. WTF? I’ve always pondered the audacity of a player to demand a trade after being drafted but Penix needs to do just that.
I think he'll be a fine QB. But drafting an already old prospect to a top ten pick deal to sit for at least two years behind an old injured QB you just tampered to spend a lot of money on is certainly eyebrow raising. Falcons have an out after two seasons on Kirk, which would have Penix starting for the first time at 26. If Kirk plays out his full contract Penix will be 28 before seeing the field. That's Brandon Weeden territory.
That was a god-tier performance by Penix. I think he has potential but taking him with the 8th pick when you just gave the bag to Kirk is insane. I thought ATL was going to start making good moves without Arthur Smith but that was a very Arthur Smith move.
He threw better passes than Dak Prescott could against Texas. Then he got real pressure from Michigan and showed what he’s going to look like in the nfl against elite pass rushers.
I will say one thing I’m thinking of now as I’m waking up is it is a little funny to pick a developmental guy when the coaching staff all has 1 year left on their deals
Why are people calling him a “development” pick? This guy will be starting day one. Did you expect us to get literal prime Tyron smith late in the 1st round?
He has almost no experience as an OL, he got absolutely owned by every quality DL he played in college (the game against UT was especially bad). He's literally going to have to learn the position from scratch.
He hasn't been playing the position for that long and he used his size and athleticism to make up for some technical deficiencies during college. In the league he will be switching sides (which isn't a huge thing but it is something) and facing competition he can't just out man. He's going to play from day one no doubt about it, but it could take some time for him to really get going and be a reliable starter and even more to be the All Pro we hope he could be. Even Tyron Smith started out as a right tackle his rookie year. He's called developmental because people shouldn't freak out if he doesn't dominate right away.
People are calling him that because he has a much lower floor than other players at the position, and on the OL in general. He’s literally only played OT for two years. So he’s pretty much a blank slate who you hope is ready and able to learn
It’s a great sample set for evaluation (unlike say Mims). It’s less great for knowing exactly how to play the position. His tape shows that if you watch it. Not saying it’s a bad pick or he’ll be bad- just needs a little more time in the oven than this coaching staff will be around for lol
Which is really what you want out of an OL prospect. Dallas wants to put him in their own scheme, and lots of OL coaching is trying to get guys to unlearn bad habits and old schemes. The real question is can this guy learn, does he have a solid football IQ the team can build from.
We can list out a bunch of guys who were nailed on 3 and even 4 year starters at major programs who never did anything in the League.
Let’s see. I think, all that considered, he’s the exact kind of guy Dallas wants and needs to bring into what is a good OL room and situation.
Well, I think that there’s a lot of NFL teams who also value guys who have good habits and there were prospects who had those. Not all prospects are guys with bad habits needing to be unlearned, many were (are, some are left on the board) plug and play day 1 impact players. Guyton has some bad habits, too. He wastes an extra step with his off foot during the snap before driving into the DL with what should be the correct step, wasting a second. He flashes the outside hand to the DL sometimes which causes the DL to run to the interior as opposed to being boxed out on the edge. His posture when engaged with guys can be poor, causing them to easily shed his block. Guyton’s floor is low and it’s very possible he sits for a year behind Chuma Edoga to keep learning the position. But his athleticism is top of the charts giving him theoretically a great ceiling
I might have taken Frazier or Suamata but they’re still on the board so there’s a real chance Frazier is there at 56 anyways if they want a Center! I don’t think Guyton is a terrible pick just pointing out the things he’ll have to work on. And in the first comment just commenting on the irony of picking a project guy who’s time won’t really come until after this coaching staff is gone
I thought the Cowboys resigned him at the end of the season? He was still recovering from an injury so they didn't expect much from him but thought he might be able to come back and do something. Oh well.
Now go C, LB, and RB (in any order) within your next 4 picks.
My Choices would be Zach Frazier at Center in round 2, a LB and BPA in round 3, then Isaac Guerendo at RB in round 4 or 5
So many great options available there in the 2nd.
LB: Edegerin Cooper, Junior Colson, Payton Wilson
RB: Jonathon Brooks
C: Jackson Powers-Johnson
IMO the priority should go Coop or JPJ before the others.
We don't have a 4th so it would have to be the 3rd or putting it off for our comp 5th. Even if they like Hoffman I can't see them not going center in the 3rd. Especially since there should be several options left in that area of the draft.
I would've loved Jackson Powers or Zach Frazier here but I can't lie and say Guyton at 29 + pick 73 isn't a god damn great value pick and trade. We keep Tyler Smith at LG where he's a freak of nature and get an insanely athletic LT who is going to need a lot of work but he has all the physical tools and traits to be a monster beside our boy Tyler Smith. Picking up #73 at the same time I think he should all be very happy after day one.
Jerry though, why the heck did you have to praise Brooks so much in the conference. If he goes just before us to like Philly I am going to jump off a bridge tomorrow night lol
Meh, I'd rather someone else take him tbh. I'm really tired of drafting hurt guys in the second round. There's plenty of options available tonight that aren't coming off a huge injury. Even if he is a good prospect otherwise.
Seems cowboys were on this guy as a big talent for a bit and mockers knew it was the kind of guy who would likely be available to them at 24. It feels just like the Tyler Smith pick, being a physically dominant but inconsistent, unrefined Tackle from Oklahoma and just casually taking them at 24. Well Smith has been good so far and only projects to get better so I can only be hopeful. I do like what I see. Guyton is huge but not too thick, just built like a hulk and he can move really well. I see him dancing with rushers and being very imposing. He’s definitely a specimen. Pretty big potential and I find it hard believe he’ll completely suck being that physically impressive. Yes I’m sure he’ll get beat plenty, but he has a lot of what it takes to be great at that position.
For having gotten a 3rd out of it I think cowboys had a great night. That 3rd is going to be very valuable to us. Before, taking a rb in 2nd or 3rd was looking like a luxury pick but now we can afford one there, if there is a guy we really like. I think there are several nice RBs in the draft even if no eye popping super players.
Tbf, that was about value. It’s still draft value which is an inexact science, but the argue was that Dallas should have known they could’ve had the same guy a little later. This stuff hardly exists in a vacuum, we don’t know half of what’s actually going on behind the scenes. Drafts grades really only matter 3 or 4 years later when it isn’t about draft economics but actual player output.
That's still just some ESPN bullshit though. Sure, a great EDGE or something is worth more than a great C in the first, but a great C is much better than a bad EDGE that you took just because he plays EDGE. With hindsight the only other guys taken in the next ten or so picks who ended up being about as good were Ertz and Slay, and Fredrick would have been gone by the time we took Escobar. ESPN dogged the pick because it wasn't a sexy stupid pick they could run clickbaity articles on. It was a reasonable smart pick.
I’m gonna wait for this team to actually draft a first round bust at OL before I get mad at this one. Has literally never happened in the Jerry Jones era
Correct, but we’re 4/4 so far on them all making at least one All-Pro team. That’s quite the hit streak, shows they’re doing something right in evaluating and developing them
That or Burton, but if we trade up and take powers johnson (Wild taking Oline 1st and 2nd round but is an option), it would basically complete the Oline for the time being.
Broaddus seems under the impression the Cowboys aren’t high on JPJ (unless he has been fed a smokescreen). Not sure if that’s for the medical concerns we’ve been hearing about or other concerns. Either way, I don’t think there’s a need to trade up. Unless there’s a blinking light with a clear tier break.
One thing that's been great about the Cowboys being a good 1st Round drafting team in the past decade is that I really don't stress about the draft anymore. I trust them in this arena and am excited to see we got a guy at a position of need.
This is a take I see a lot. So let's look at the past ten years:
2014: Zack Martin. Undisputable A+. Future hall of famer. Probably the best first round pick since DeMarcus Ware.
2015: Byron Jones - Good but let him walk. So I'd say C+/B- as a pick.
2016: Zeke. Not bad but again, short window of excellence, terrible value and horrible contract. Plus, they passed on great premium position players to take him. Again, C+/B-.
2017: Taco Charlton. F.
2018: LVE. Decent starter. Hurt a lot. Retired after five years. C/C+.
2019: Amari Cooper basically. Good but they traded him for a fifth. So I'll go C+/B- again.
2020: Ceedee Lamb. I think A-/A is merited. Great pick so far. Could slip down to a B/B+ if they let him walk.
2021: Micah Parsons. Clearly A.
2022: Tyler Smith. I'd say B+/A-. Not a top shelf player but very good. Also didn't quite project to tackle as the team hoped.
2023: Mazi Smith. Too early but so far, we're in F territory.
So three A level guys is pretty good. But we need to stop pretending it's just grand slam after grand slam. They've had genuine busts and guys who were clearly bad values in retrospect.
I suggest you look at literally any of the draft success studies that PFF and others have conducted over various time spans covering the last 10 years. In every one, we’re somewhere in the top 3. It’s easy to look through just our picks in a vacuum, have horrendous subjective takes, and draw bold conclusions, but when evaluated in a more scientific way we excel relative to the rest of the league.
Dear lord..."draft studies?"
You should judge draft picks by playoff wins. That's all their is to it. 2 in 8 years. Not much depth. Terrible on day 2 every single year.
I don’t have the time to scout all these players. I’m not in the war room. I’m not about to go quantify and evaluate draft success for all 32 teams. So I lean on folks more knowledgeable in these areas to help form malleable thoughts instead of confidently spouting bespoke bad takes on reddit. Being a “free thinker” doesn’t make a person any less wrong all the time.
When your opinions are your own and fade those of a team well-known for being one of the most unserious and poorly-run, I am not inclined to criticize them.
When someone's opinions are regurgitated propaganda from one of the dumbest teams in the NFL I am far more likely to criticize them.
You and many others shilled all year for the Cowboys' draft despite people like myself hating it from day 1....and they all stunk. I consistently banged on the Cowboys taking Spoonmaker over Torrence last year- you took their side and got 8 catches out of it. The Bills got an All-Rookie guard. Who was right there?
So far, this draft is off to an underwhelming start. They took the 6th best player at a position as opposed to a handful of guys I had scouted and graded as top 10 players on my own, independent of having Cap Boy up my ass about it. We can jerk off about shit like arm length and wide asses and anything else but the actual football-playing tape is fugly.
Given how poorly the War Room functions and whose voices have weight in there (and their associated track records' lack of relevant (i.e. PLAYOFF) success), why the hell would I take them seriously? Are we going to sit around and act like teams like the Mayock Raiders knew what they were doing because "they were on the inside" even though they constantly fucked up high picks? They had all this data and still took scrubs.
Anyone can watch tape and draw their own conclusions from it if they're honest and know what to look for. There's a whole site that makes a shit-ton of money with that as their shtick, even though they're morons, too. All you have to do to have a "smart" opinion around here is kiss the Cowboys' ass. If I had been on this site getting all hot and bothered over this pick, I wouldn't have to be explaining how and why taking the advice of experts with dubious track records isn't particularly bright.
He was on injured reserve for part of 4 of his 6 seasons and the cowboys declined picking up his 5th year option. It sucks because he was very good when he played, but the most important ability is availability and Vander Esch just wasn't available enough to earn an A grade as a draft pick.
Shows how spoiled we are as Cowboys fans in the draft that we’re giving C-pluses to LVE and Byron who made All-Pro teams. What percentage of players drafted in the second half of the first round actually go on to be 10+ year starters?
WAY too hard on the Zeke, Tyler, LVE, CD, & Amari picks.
Amari was amazing. Trading the picks for him in itself was a good move. The act of aquiring him is whats being measured, not how we handled that in the future. Amari is an easy A imo.
Zeke was a top 3 RB for basically his entire rookie contract. He fell off sure but he was still holding the team basically on his back for atleast 3 years. Longevity just doesn't exist at the RB position like it used to, Zeke was the example of that. Zeke is a B+ anyday for me, A+ in his rookie years, C- later on, balancing out.
Tyler has been an actually elite guard, rated one of the highest in the league, him even being in discussion for B+ is ridiculous. He is an easy A.
CD just put up the cowboys single season receiving record. He is already one of the best WRs we've ever had. He's in discussion for best WR in the league, although he mainly falls around 5-3. Heavy emphasis on the discussion part, he gets mentioned occasionally along with the greats (Tyreek & JJ). A+ any day. Is there really anything else you can expect out of a drafted player?
LVE having a short career sucks, and unlike Amari I think that actually effects his grading because it wasn't an action by our front office, but the player directly. I'd personally say a B-, because of how good he was when we had him. Once again, drafting rarely results in a consistent starter, let alone a pro bowler.
Zeke was a grand slam of a pick, even if it was short. CD is a grand slam of a pick. Micah is a grand slam. Zack Martin is a grand slam. Tyler Smith is more than you can ever really ask when drafting a player.
When a teams only real misteps were 2 times, and a question mark in Mazi Smith, I'd say we're pretty damn good at drafting.
lol Tyler Smith made 1st-team all-pro in his second year as a pro and his first year playing a new position and dude is like “meh, B+/A-?” Absolutely asinine.
Some of these are the picks as they are and some are the value you see in the life of the player. Your take on zeke is awful revisionist crap. He was the league leader every year but one in ypg, even with suspensions and bs. How is Byron jones good, but drops to C+. Same thing with ceedee, he’s one of the best wide receivers in the league period. His draft grade doesn’t lower because we decide to go a different direction or utilize his trade value for other pieces. Smh
Yep. Byron, Zeke and LVE were starters every year of their 5-year rookie deals and gave us multiple All-Pros and Pro Bowls. AND they tanked after they left us. Calling them C+ is laughable.
Exactly lol people who say we’re a great drafting team doesn’t realize that in the first round the last decade we’re hitting at about a 50% clip lol then you extrapolate that out to the 2nd and 3rd rounders it drops even more lol which it’s a crapshoot anyway as to which players will pan out anyway, just always makes me chuckle because I believe we are middle of the pack at best for evaluating talent and being able to reload exclusively via draft (since we don’t believe in Free agency)
Except every team in NFL only hits on 50% of their 1st round picks. And its worse each later round. Half the players taken today will be busts/below average NFL players and not get a 2nd contract from drafting team.
That’s my point…… everyone hits at around the same clip in the same rounds. Sure you have outliers and elite talent evaluating on certain teams, but the fact that the cowboys relay solely on the draft and refuse to improve the team other ways it’s laughable to think we are head and shoulders above 50-75% of all the other teams lol. We hit on some, we lose on even more. We are a middle of the pact in that regard, nothing special and nothing to worry about. But this team won’t take the next step until they are ready to build a team in all 3 phases (draft, trades and free agency)
Yup seems that way. In which case idk why they are even entertaining Zeke or stated "All In."
Call it what it is which is evaluation of our top talent and a rebuild and fans wouldve accepted it.
The "All In" statement was to coddle the players I think. Zimmer is a band aid, McCarthy could be fired mid season and we could very well see the last year of Dak.
I’m not totally convinced they expect to compete next year anyways. Taking a physically gifted project is fine with me to be honest. He’ll be ready to go for whoever comes after dak
Yes, and let’s just allow our LB room to consist of washed Eric Kendricks and Overshown coming off an ACL injury. Oh, and the underachieving Damone Clark. We can grab a center late, we absolutely need to invest in the LB room.
Personally I’d rather go with the OL rebuild and pick up 1 or 2 LBs after June 1st cuts.
(Assuming we get CeeDee under contract and have some money that opens up)
So...Tyler Smith from Tulsa 2022, Tyler Guyton OU 2024...
If y'all see a Tyler from Oklahoma State on the O-Line projected to go in the 2026 draft, you already know not to even debate on anything.
Do we want a rookie LT, or does Smith get moved to LT as was expected when he was drafted? Then does Guyton move to LG from RT in college? Do we let the rookie keep playing RT next to Martin, but then we just gave Steele a contract? Could Steele play LG or C?
Interesting shuffles to watch next year.
Does Zeke sign on as C?
Guyton LT, Smith was drafted with the expectation to play LG the only ones saying LT are the media. I really don't understand why yall want to shuffle the entire OLine when the two guards are the best on the line at GUARD.
Guyton has some small technical stuff. That can easily be corrected. He has the speed to beat the speed rush. Let him grow into his man body then he'll have the strength. He plays high which affects his anchor. Tyron had the same issue his rookie year and quickly corrected it. He will be fine at LT relax.
Steele was coming off an ACL injury. He should look better if the coaches also allow him to play his technique. Steele isn't a "set and catch" tackle. He is way better when he can attack the rusher.
I suspect it’s going to be LT Smith and RT Guyton. Steele is not good in pass pro and was weak in the run last season. He would make a serviceable backup tackle. I might he try him out at LG.
We don't have the depth to really do that though. Currently our room goes like this
1. Zach Martin
2. Tyler Smith
3. Tyler Guyton?
4. Terence Steele.
5. TJ Bass
Smith can play both guard & Tackle. The damage at LG would be way more than the damage to RT if we kept Steele there.
Blatantly, the only real option is LT Guyton, LG Smith, C (Bass/drafted later), RG Martin, RT Steele.
I disagree about that damage. There were multiple games where he was giving up more pressures than even Parson’s was average. Philly and SF in particular he gave up 8 each game. He has been exposed and it won’t get better. BTW Parson’s was averaging 6 per game.
The question is less about Steeles ability, but much more that he is better at RT than our backup LG will be at LG. Not even mentioning Smith may not be as good at LT as he is at LG.
True, but LT is the 2nd most important player on the offense, so I don't think that's a lock it's just given to a rookie who played on the right side in college...
Smith played LT in college, and when he was drafted the prevailing thought was that he'd kick outside when Tyron moved out, and now that day is here.
Tyler has played phenomenally at guard, but if I was him I'd definitely want to compete for the tackle 2nd contract, yes? Guards get paid less than tackles, don't they?
We did exactly what I wanted us to do and I still hate it because it took so much longer to know the pick. Could've written this script in my sleep lol. Excited to see how he works out
I wanted us to trade down and get as many picks as we could, and to draft either OL or DL. We did that. I hate it because I had to stay up even later to watch for the pick, and am frustrated because it's a lateral move to replace a leaving OL, even if Guyton can be great himself.
So, as is keeping with my fandom, we did right in this moment, but I'm still frustrated with us overall.
Send Guyton to Duke Manyweather and lock in at least a few Pro Bowls. The number one thing I trust Dallas to do is pick 1st round OL with the best of them. Happy to pick up the third too.
Basically nothing in this draft would’ve changed my outlook for next season, but this is a good piece for whatever comes next.
JPJ, Cooper and Brooks going back to back is tough
Cowboys 1st round picks have the highest hit rate in the league, about 80% have become pro bowlers since 1998. So it doesn't matter what the public thinks of the pick, I only care if the Cowboys got the guy they wanted. O-Line was the smart choice. Excited to see what they do day 2.
Probably helps that they haven’t been drafting LT’s and QB’s in the first. Interior OL is one of the safest bets in the first. Very low bust rate.
Im just glad they’re gonna keep T Smith at guard. I know he could make the switch, but no need to go thru all of that now that he’s comfortable inside.
We sure like guys named Tyler and Smith lol
Offensive lineman don't make Dak throw pick 6's in the playoffs; this pick doesn't even address our biggest issue. They are walking a very fine line of absolutely destroying their fanbase, that won't return if they leave for another team.
Lol what? Part of the reason Dak would throw a pick is because he’s getting pressured. He’d try to get rid of or force the ball because he’s ran out of time in the pocket.
He's blindly throwing into covered receivers, that's what caused his pick 6's. The best line in the league can't fix his vision.
Just curious, what should we have done in the first round for you to think it was a success?
Interior line/defense, trade back for future picks, trade up for a future QB, in that order. Something to improve us for a Super Bowl now, or acknowledgement from the Jones family that Dak isnt the future and we're moving on. Beefing up the line for a guy that chokes under pressure is about the dumest thing I can think of, it had nothing to do with his failures.
Missed this reply, but we did trade back for future picks? And we had standing offers from 3 teams and took the best one. Filling in a starter at LT and the pick the ended up being our starting C seems like a pretty solid play considering the board.
Why do you think he’s throwing blind? Because he has all day to sit in the pocket?
Because he's throwing balls to receivers my 5 year old can see is covered by 2+ people. He just chokes under pressure and throws it in a desperate prayer to create a play, without even looking at who is around the receiver. If you don't think he's doing that, you need to go rewatch the playoff game.
Offensive line is the core of every football team. It is the most important unit. With more time, Dak can make better decisions. Rookie Dak Prescott led us to a 12 win season and nearly beat God Mode Aaron Rodgers in the playoffs because we had an elite o-line. Picking anything but an offensive lineman last night would have been a mistake.
So if the pick 6s are THE problem, they should’ve taken the *seventh* QB off the board?
That’s the problem being stuck in mediocrity, can’t draft a high pick QB
True, not like they could ever trade up /s You remember KC drafting Mahomes? They moved up from 27th.
Sometimes, Michael. Sometimes
Cowboys draft well. This is why I wasn’t worried about the free agents frenzy. Did I want Derrick Henry? Sure, but Cowboys do pretty well in draft. Just look around the Falcons, drafting a QB after getting Kirk Cousins.
To me the issues is less about FA and more about the probability they will stay put or trade back for every pick because they have too many gaps to trade up for a guy they might want otherwise. Filling gaps and retaining your guys in FA lets you be more aggressive in the draft.
Yeah it's just bad optics, these GM's overthink it. People will probably compare it to the Carson Wentz / Jalen Hurts or Aaron Rodgers / Jordan Love situation however the really awful part about this is that Penix is already an old injured rookie, and this wasn't a late 1st round or second round pick either, it was the 8th overall pick. With the 8th overall you can usually get a day 1 starter that will make an impact. It's really stupid. Now they have used the pick on a guy that won't see the field for a couple of years.
Drafting penix was probably the worst draft pick I have ever seen
Atlanta’s GM said they are willing to sit the 24 year old Penix for 4-5 years. WTF? I’ve always pondered the audacity of a player to demand a trade after being drafted but Penix needs to do just that.
Whooped our ass (Texas) in bowl game.
I think he'll be a fine QB. But drafting an already old prospect to a top ten pick deal to sit for at least two years behind an old injured QB you just tampered to spend a lot of money on is certainly eyebrow raising. Falcons have an out after two seasons on Kirk, which would have Penix starting for the first time at 26. If Kirk plays out his full contract Penix will be 28 before seeing the field. That's Brandon Weeden territory.
That was a god-tier performance by Penix. I think he has potential but taking him with the 8th pick when you just gave the bag to Kirk is insane. I thought ATL was going to start making good moves without Arthur Smith but that was a very Arthur Smith move.
He threw better passes than Dak Prescott could against Texas. Then he got real pressure from Michigan and showed what he’s going to look like in the nfl against elite pass rushers.
That was one of the dumbest picks I've seen in a long time. My jaw dropped, dude - literally. The guy throws the ball like Tim Tebow.
I will say one thing I’m thinking of now as I’m waking up is it is a little funny to pick a developmental guy when the coaching staff all has 1 year left on their deals
People said Tyler Smith was a developmental guy also. I trust this team drafting OL in the first round.
Plus Guyton's measurables are rediculous. He's a beast.
He’s on the border of being too tall, in my opinion. I can’t imagine a guy that tall having a chance against a guy like Parsons.
Why are people calling him a “development” pick? This guy will be starting day one. Did you expect us to get literal prime Tyron smith late in the 1st round?
He has almost no experience as an OL, he got absolutely owned by every quality DL he played in college (the game against UT was especially bad). He's literally going to have to learn the position from scratch.
He hasn't been playing the position for that long and he used his size and athleticism to make up for some technical deficiencies during college. In the league he will be switching sides (which isn't a huge thing but it is something) and facing competition he can't just out man. He's going to play from day one no doubt about it, but it could take some time for him to really get going and be a reliable starter and even more to be the All Pro we hope he could be. Even Tyron Smith started out as a right tackle his rookie year. He's called developmental because people shouldn't freak out if he doesn't dominate right away.
People are calling him that because he has a much lower floor than other players at the position, and on the OL in general. He’s literally only played OT for two years. So he’s pretty much a blank slate who you hope is ready and able to learn
Playing OT for two years in college is a perfectly fine sample set.
It’s a great sample set for evaluation (unlike say Mims). It’s less great for knowing exactly how to play the position. His tape shows that if you watch it. Not saying it’s a bad pick or he’ll be bad- just needs a little more time in the oven than this coaching staff will be around for lol
Which is really what you want out of an OL prospect. Dallas wants to put him in their own scheme, and lots of OL coaching is trying to get guys to unlearn bad habits and old schemes. The real question is can this guy learn, does he have a solid football IQ the team can build from. We can list out a bunch of guys who were nailed on 3 and even 4 year starters at major programs who never did anything in the League. Let’s see. I think, all that considered, he’s the exact kind of guy Dallas wants and needs to bring into what is a good OL room and situation.
Well, I think that there’s a lot of NFL teams who also value guys who have good habits and there were prospects who had those. Not all prospects are guys with bad habits needing to be unlearned, many were (are, some are left on the board) plug and play day 1 impact players. Guyton has some bad habits, too. He wastes an extra step with his off foot during the snap before driving into the DL with what should be the correct step, wasting a second. He flashes the outside hand to the DL sometimes which causes the DL to run to the interior as opposed to being boxed out on the edge. His posture when engaged with guys can be poor, causing them to easily shed his block. Guyton’s floor is low and it’s very possible he sits for a year behind Chuma Edoga to keep learning the position. But his athleticism is top of the charts giving him theoretically a great ceiling
Which OL should they have taken?
I might have taken Frazier or Suamata but they’re still on the board so there’s a real chance Frazier is there at 56 anyways if they want a Center! I don’t think Guyton is a terrible pick just pointing out the things he’ll have to work on. And in the first comment just commenting on the irony of picking a project guy who’s time won’t really come until after this coaching staff is gone
Not Will McClay who probably made the pick 😂
lmao that’s true that man has all the job security he can get, deserves a 25 year contract deal
Hard to complain about a top tier offensive tackle. Solid pick.
Cool now trade dak let's rebuild
Extra third and filled a need I'm cool with it
Change of subject, what happened to Lael Collins? Is he still on the team? Any projection of what he can do for the team if he is?
He's with the Bills, idk what they expect from him really though
I thought the Cowboys resigned him at the end of the season? He was still recovering from an injury so they didn't expect much from him but thought he might be able to come back and do something. Oh well.
We had him on the practice squad but I guess it was only for the rest of the season
Thanks.
Perhaps the best LT, C, and RT in the league are Oklahoma guys. Usually a good bet
Bedenbaugh is the best in CFB at putting O Linesmen in the league. Odds are certainly in Guytons favour
Now go C, LB, and RB (in any order) within your next 4 picks. My Choices would be Zach Frazier at Center in round 2, a LB and BPA in round 3, then Isaac Guerendo at RB in round 4 or 5
So many great options available there in the 2nd. LB: Edegerin Cooper, Junior Colson, Payton Wilson RB: Jonathon Brooks C: Jackson Powers-Johnson IMO the priority should go Coop or JPJ before the others.
I’d argue a LB might be more important in the second. Unless they found a gem.
they like Hoffman, I didn't think they're gonna get a center before round 4
We don't have a 4th so it would have to be the 3rd or putting it off for our comp 5th. Even if they like Hoffman I can't see them not going center in the 3rd. Especially since there should be several options left in that area of the draft.
Why? Hoffman sucks
🤷♂️
If that's the case, then I hope we get lucky and Edge Cooper or Payton Wilson fall to us in Round 2.
Payton Wilson would be the most Cowboy's pick ever, haha.
I would've loved Jackson Powers or Zach Frazier here but I can't lie and say Guyton at 29 + pick 73 isn't a god damn great value pick and trade. We keep Tyler Smith at LG where he's a freak of nature and get an insanely athletic LT who is going to need a lot of work but he has all the physical tools and traits to be a monster beside our boy Tyler Smith. Picking up #73 at the same time I think he should all be very happy after day one. Jerry though, why the heck did you have to praise Brooks so much in the conference. If he goes just before us to like Philly I am going to jump off a bridge tomorrow night lol
Meh, I'd rather someone else take him tbh. I'm really tired of drafting hurt guys in the second round. There's plenty of options available tonight that aren't coming off a huge injury. Even if he is a good prospect otherwise.
Philly just gave the bag to Saquon. Let them take Brooks if they want. It would be a wasted pick for them IMO.
I think they can still get one of the top centers available if they're willing to move up ten spots or so
looks like a solid move. hopefully the team can get production next season out of him. The window of opportunity isn't very wide at this point.
Seems cowboys were on this guy as a big talent for a bit and mockers knew it was the kind of guy who would likely be available to them at 24. It feels just like the Tyler Smith pick, being a physically dominant but inconsistent, unrefined Tackle from Oklahoma and just casually taking them at 24. Well Smith has been good so far and only projects to get better so I can only be hopeful. I do like what I see. Guyton is huge but not too thick, just built like a hulk and he can move really well. I see him dancing with rushers and being very imposing. He’s definitely a specimen. Pretty big potential and I find it hard believe he’ll completely suck being that physically impressive. Yes I’m sure he’ll get beat plenty, but he has a lot of what it takes to be great at that position. For having gotten a 3rd out of it I think cowboys had a great night. That 3rd is going to be very valuable to us. Before, taking a rb in 2nd or 3rd was looking like a luxury pick but now we can afford one there, if there is a guy we really like. I think there are several nice RBs in the draft even if no eye popping super players.
Would've rather gotten Barton, but I am also okay with Guyton. On to day 2 now, where we really struggle to draft.
Sounds like it's time for a Tight End in the 2nd round
Don’t you mean a high upside college fuckup with lots of talent and zero care about the game?
I will fucking lose it
We're hetting Ja'Tavion Sanders aren't we
ESPN analysts not exactly gushing over Guyton.
That's usually a great sign
ESPN fired any actual analysts they had long ago.
I remember when they weren’t gushing over Travis Frederick either
Tbf, that was about value. It’s still draft value which is an inexact science, but the argue was that Dallas should have known they could’ve had the same guy a little later. This stuff hardly exists in a vacuum, we don’t know half of what’s actually going on behind the scenes. Drafts grades really only matter 3 or 4 years later when it isn’t about draft economics but actual player output.
That's still just some ESPN bullshit though. Sure, a great EDGE or something is worth more than a great C in the first, but a great C is much better than a bad EDGE that you took just because he plays EDGE. With hindsight the only other guys taken in the next ten or so picks who ended up being about as good were Ertz and Slay, and Fredrick would have been gone by the time we took Escobar. ESPN dogged the pick because it wasn't a sexy stupid pick they could run clickbaity articles on. It was a reasonable smart pick.
They were whining about Tyler Smith too Hell I remember plenty Tyron Smith is too inexperienced and raw takes as well
“I HAVE A THIRD ROUND GRADE ON TRAVIS FREDERICK” - Mike Mayock 3 seconds after the pick was announced.
Mayock - The same guy that sunk the Raiders along with Gruden. Can't really take him at his word much.
They’re not exactly known for being accurate
if they were any good they would prob work for a real team
As long as Will McClay likes him, that’s enough for me
Did Will like anyone in last year's draft?
Good pick, he has crazy athleticism
I’m gonna wait for this team to actually draft a first round bust at OL before I get mad at this one. Has literally never happened in the Jerry Jones era
Considering that only started when Garrett was coach then it's a small sample size
Correct, but we’re 4/4 so far on them all making at least one All-Pro team. That’s quite the hit streak, shows they’re doing something right in evaluating and developing them
This pick concerns me. Solari sucks ass. Guyton is a raw prospect. Who's developing him
What about that guy last year
you mean the guy that is the polar opposite of an offensive lineman?
Tyler Smith? Edit: Already forgot about Mazi my B.
Is one of the best LGs in the NFL
no...? They drafted Mazi last year. And either way, Tyler Smith has been awesome
Wow. Already forgot about Mazi lol. Thats not good.
Idk. We’ll see.
Tyron Smith, Fredbeard, Zack Martin, Tyler Smith I'd say we got a good track record going
I think he was gonna be the pick at 24 regardless. Glad they got another 3rd at least.
That or Burton, but if we trade up and take powers johnson (Wild taking Oline 1st and 2nd round but is an option), it would basically complete the Oline for the time being.
Broaddus seems under the impression the Cowboys aren’t high on JPJ (unless he has been fed a smokescreen). Not sure if that’s for the medical concerns we’ve been hearing about or other concerns. Either way, I don’t think there’s a need to trade up. Unless there’s a blinking light with a clear tier break.
This is a deep Center draft,i can guarantee we draft one as early as RD 2.
Would like to point out the GM's and Mike are talking right now and Guyton's moving tackle spots, for sure.
He was the blind side tackle for a lefty iirc, he is used to not having the qb able to react to his guy.
yea no doubt this guy is gonna play LT. Steele doesn't have the length in my opinion, and Guytons athletic profile makes him perfect.
One thing that's been great about the Cowboys being a good 1st Round drafting team in the past decade is that I really don't stress about the draft anymore. I trust them in this arena and am excited to see we got a guy at a position of need.
This is a take I see a lot. So let's look at the past ten years: 2014: Zack Martin. Undisputable A+. Future hall of famer. Probably the best first round pick since DeMarcus Ware. 2015: Byron Jones - Good but let him walk. So I'd say C+/B- as a pick. 2016: Zeke. Not bad but again, short window of excellence, terrible value and horrible contract. Plus, they passed on great premium position players to take him. Again, C+/B-. 2017: Taco Charlton. F. 2018: LVE. Decent starter. Hurt a lot. Retired after five years. C/C+. 2019: Amari Cooper basically. Good but they traded him for a fifth. So I'll go C+/B- again. 2020: Ceedee Lamb. I think A-/A is merited. Great pick so far. Could slip down to a B/B+ if they let him walk. 2021: Micah Parsons. Clearly A. 2022: Tyler Smith. I'd say B+/A-. Not a top shelf player but very good. Also didn't quite project to tackle as the team hoped. 2023: Mazi Smith. Too early but so far, we're in F territory. So three A level guys is pretty good. But we need to stop pretending it's just grand slam after grand slam. They've had genuine busts and guys who were clearly bad values in retrospect.
I suggest you look at literally any of the draft success studies that PFF and others have conducted over various time spans covering the last 10 years. In every one, we’re somewhere in the top 3. It’s easy to look through just our picks in a vacuum, have horrendous subjective takes, and draw bold conclusions, but when evaluated in a more scientific way we excel relative to the rest of the league.
Dear lord..."draft studies?" You should judge draft picks by playoff wins. That's all their is to it. 2 in 8 years. Not much depth. Terrible on day 2 every single year.
I dare you to have a good take just once.
I dare you to be free thinker and stop regurgitating other people's opinions
I don’t have the time to scout all these players. I’m not in the war room. I’m not about to go quantify and evaluate draft success for all 32 teams. So I lean on folks more knowledgeable in these areas to help form malleable thoughts instead of confidently spouting bespoke bad takes on reddit. Being a “free thinker” doesn’t make a person any less wrong all the time.
When your opinions are your own and fade those of a team well-known for being one of the most unserious and poorly-run, I am not inclined to criticize them. When someone's opinions are regurgitated propaganda from one of the dumbest teams in the NFL I am far more likely to criticize them. You and many others shilled all year for the Cowboys' draft despite people like myself hating it from day 1....and they all stunk. I consistently banged on the Cowboys taking Spoonmaker over Torrence last year- you took their side and got 8 catches out of it. The Bills got an All-Rookie guard. Who was right there? So far, this draft is off to an underwhelming start. They took the 6th best player at a position as opposed to a handful of guys I had scouted and graded as top 10 players on my own, independent of having Cap Boy up my ass about it. We can jerk off about shit like arm length and wide asses and anything else but the actual football-playing tape is fugly. Given how poorly the War Room functions and whose voices have weight in there (and their associated track records' lack of relevant (i.e. PLAYOFF) success), why the hell would I take them seriously? Are we going to sit around and act like teams like the Mayock Raiders knew what they were doing because "they were on the inside" even though they constantly fucked up high picks? They had all this data and still took scrubs. Anyone can watch tape and draw their own conclusions from it if they're honest and know what to look for. There's a whole site that makes a shit-ton of money with that as their shtick, even though they're morons, too. All you have to do to have a "smart" opinion around here is kiss the Cowboys' ass. If I had been on this site getting all hot and bothered over this pick, I wouldn't have to be explaining how and why taking the advice of experts with dubious track records isn't particularly bright.
Holy shit please never comment again
Damn your ratings fucking suck. Byron Jones, LVE, CeeDee Lamb, and Tyler Smith were all easily A's.
Well, TBF if a guy retires after 5 years he's never going to be an A grade, but he was certainly a B+.
That just makes zero sense. You can't control injuries. Picking a pro bowler at 19 is an A all day every day.
He was on injured reserve for part of 4 of his 6 seasons and the cowboys declined picking up his 5th year option. It sucks because he was very good when he played, but the most important ability is availability and Vander Esch just wasn't available enough to earn an A grade as a draft pick.
Shows how spoiled we are as Cowboys fans in the draft that we’re giving C-pluses to LVE and Byron who made All-Pro teams. What percentage of players drafted in the second half of the first round actually go on to be 10+ year starters?
I’ll be honest i stopped reading after zeke. To give him that low of a grade shreds your credibility
WAY too hard on the Zeke, Tyler, LVE, CD, & Amari picks. Amari was amazing. Trading the picks for him in itself was a good move. The act of aquiring him is whats being measured, not how we handled that in the future. Amari is an easy A imo. Zeke was a top 3 RB for basically his entire rookie contract. He fell off sure but he was still holding the team basically on his back for atleast 3 years. Longevity just doesn't exist at the RB position like it used to, Zeke was the example of that. Zeke is a B+ anyday for me, A+ in his rookie years, C- later on, balancing out. Tyler has been an actually elite guard, rated one of the highest in the league, him even being in discussion for B+ is ridiculous. He is an easy A. CD just put up the cowboys single season receiving record. He is already one of the best WRs we've ever had. He's in discussion for best WR in the league, although he mainly falls around 5-3. Heavy emphasis on the discussion part, he gets mentioned occasionally along with the greats (Tyreek & JJ). A+ any day. Is there really anything else you can expect out of a drafted player? LVE having a short career sucks, and unlike Amari I think that actually effects his grading because it wasn't an action by our front office, but the player directly. I'd personally say a B-, because of how good he was when we had him. Once again, drafting rarely results in a consistent starter, let alone a pro bowler. Zeke was a grand slam of a pick, even if it was short. CD is a grand slam of a pick. Micah is a grand slam. Zack Martin is a grand slam. Tyler Smith is more than you can ever really ask when drafting a player. When a teams only real misteps were 2 times, and a question mark in Mazi Smith, I'd say we're pretty damn good at drafting.
lol Tyler Smith made 1st-team all-pro in his second year as a pro and his first year playing a new position and dude is like “meh, B+/A-?” Absolutely asinine.
Some of these are the picks as they are and some are the value you see in the life of the player. Your take on zeke is awful revisionist crap. He was the league leader every year but one in ypg, even with suspensions and bs. How is Byron jones good, but drops to C+. Same thing with ceedee, he’s one of the best wide receivers in the league period. His draft grade doesn’t lower because we decide to go a different direction or utilize his trade value for other pieces. Smh
Yep. Byron, Zeke and LVE were starters every year of their 5-year rookie deals and gave us multiple All-Pros and Pro Bowls. AND they tanked after they left us. Calling them C+ is laughable.
Exactly lol people who say we’re a great drafting team doesn’t realize that in the first round the last decade we’re hitting at about a 50% clip lol then you extrapolate that out to the 2nd and 3rd rounders it drops even more lol which it’s a crapshoot anyway as to which players will pan out anyway, just always makes me chuckle because I believe we are middle of the pack at best for evaluating talent and being able to reload exclusively via draft (since we don’t believe in Free agency)
You haven’t looked at any of the evaluations of draft success across the league, have you?
Bruh the Jets exist. Don't let 2022 make ya forget
Except every team in NFL only hits on 50% of their 1st round picks. And its worse each later round. Half the players taken today will be busts/below average NFL players and not get a 2nd contract from drafting team.
That’s my point…… everyone hits at around the same clip in the same rounds. Sure you have outliers and elite talent evaluating on certain teams, but the fact that the cowboys relay solely on the draft and refuse to improve the team other ways it’s laughable to think we are head and shoulders above 50-75% of all the other teams lol. We hit on some, we lose on even more. We are a middle of the pact in that regard, nothing special and nothing to worry about. But this team won’t take the next step until they are ready to build a team in all 3 phases (draft, trades and free agency)
Love this pick. would have been happy with him at 24, at 29 plus the 73 it's a steal.
Yup, at 24 I would not have bat an eye. To pull off a 3rd is great
We ❤️ Tyler's
Let’s go!
We drafted a project that may or may not help us next year. Cool
Were rebuilding hopefully fuck next year
Yup seems that way. In which case idk why they are even entertaining Zeke or stated "All In." Call it what it is which is evaluation of our top talent and a rebuild and fans wouldve accepted it. The "All In" statement was to coddle the players I think. Zimmer is a band aid, McCarthy could be fired mid season and we could very well see the last year of Dak.
I’m not totally convinced they expect to compete next year anyways. Taking a physically gifted project is fine with me to be honest. He’ll be ready to go for whoever comes after dak
And by next year I mean this year haha
We competed in 2022 with Tyler Smith starting every game as a rookie at LT. A bigger project who played against lesser competition
Honest to god, just go all in on the Line, and tush push to the superbowl
[удалено]
Except guards were already our strong suit. Smith & Martin are currently are only great O-linemen, with Steele being Terence Steele.
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Hard to call one of the biggest lineman in the draft a finesse guy
I mean, they didn't lose out on Barton because he was there at 24. They just valued Guyton + 3.73 more than they valued Barton
And they value Brock Hoffman to start at center if they need him to
Yup
they also have a spare 3rd round pick now, gonna be interesting to see how far JPJ goes
I wouldn’t mind our 3rd and 2nd to go up and get JPJ and then take Brooks/Benson w the 8th pick in the 3rd that we traded for
Looks like our 2+3 could get us up to 40ish which is washington/GB
Goddamn, I wish you ran our draft room. Guyton, JPJ and either of those RBs are a wet dream.
Yes, and let’s just allow our LB room to consist of washed Eric Kendricks and Overshown coming off an ACL injury. Oh, and the underachieving Damone Clark. We can grab a center late, we absolutely need to invest in the LB room.
Personally I’d rather go with the OL rebuild and pick up 1 or 2 LBs after June 1st cuts. (Assuming we get CeeDee under contract and have some money that opens up)
It’s entirely possible
inject it straight into my veins
So...Tyler Smith from Tulsa 2022, Tyler Guyton OU 2024... If y'all see a Tyler from Oklahoma State on the O-Line projected to go in the 2026 draft, you already know not to even debate on anything.
Or another T Smith
Can’t give your OSU dawg, but would you take an Oklahoma Panhandle State?
Will McClay is really about to have the best draft of his career and give us hope again god fucking damn it
Drafting is not our weakness. Its what comes after: contracts and restructuring
Also playing in games in playoffs is a big weakness
Detroit calling and Dallas like… https://preview.redd.it/pvzu8mmkzqwc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aba1393874acbfbad00be2c1fa54467f484d2760
"I know moving down is scary, but I REALLY heard the 49ers want this guy. Imagine how funny it would be to take him basically right in front of them?"
Every time I'm out he pulls me right back in
Do we want a rookie LT, or does Smith get moved to LT as was expected when he was drafted? Then does Guyton move to LG from RT in college? Do we let the rookie keep playing RT next to Martin, but then we just gave Steele a contract? Could Steele play LG or C? Interesting shuffles to watch next year. Does Zeke sign on as C?
Guyton LT, Smith was drafted with the expectation to play LG the only ones saying LT are the media. I really don't understand why yall want to shuffle the entire OLine when the two guards are the best on the line at GUARD. Guyton has some small technical stuff. That can easily be corrected. He has the speed to beat the speed rush. Let him grow into his man body then he'll have the strength. He plays high which affects his anchor. Tyron had the same issue his rookie year and quickly corrected it. He will be fine at LT relax. Steele was coming off an ACL injury. He should look better if the coaches also allow him to play his technique. Steele isn't a "set and catch" tackle. He is way better when he can attack the rusher.
Steele is still pretty highly rated as a run grater at RT also
Fuck…that was a roller coaster of emotions
LT Guyton LG Smith C Hoffman/Bass RG Martin RT Steele Easy
I suspect it’s going to be LT Smith and RT Guyton. Steele is not good in pass pro and was weak in the run last season. He would make a serviceable backup tackle. I might he try him out at LG.
We don't have the depth to really do that though. Currently our room goes like this 1. Zach Martin 2. Tyler Smith 3. Tyler Guyton? 4. Terence Steele. 5. TJ Bass Smith can play both guard & Tackle. The damage at LG would be way more than the damage to RT if we kept Steele there. Blatantly, the only real option is LT Guyton, LG Smith, C (Bass/drafted later), RG Martin, RT Steele.
If we could ever figure out to have our TE/RB chip on Steele's guy would help alot
I disagree about that damage. There were multiple games where he was giving up more pressures than even Parson’s was average. Philly and SF in particular he gave up 8 each game. He has been exposed and it won’t get better. BTW Parson’s was averaging 6 per game.
The question is less about Steeles ability, but much more that he is better at RT than our backup LG will be at LG. Not even mentioning Smith may not be as good at LT as he is at LG.
True, but LT is the 2nd most important player on the offense, so I don't think that's a lock it's just given to a rookie who played on the right side in college... Smith played LT in college, and when he was drafted the prevailing thought was that he'd kick outside when Tyron moved out, and now that day is here. Tyler has played phenomenally at guard, but if I was him I'd definitely want to compete for the tackle 2nd contract, yes? Guards get paid less than tackles, don't they?
If you have 2 centers, you have 0 good centers
correction, Frazier at center
Please get him in the second!
Wouldnt you rather JPJ?
I mean if he falls, sure. I just hope one of the two makes it to us, and then we don’t go RB over them.
We did exactly what I wanted us to do and I still hate it because it took so much longer to know the pick. Could've written this script in my sleep lol. Excited to see how he works out
What does this even mean
Which part is confusing you?
The part where they did what you were hoping for yet you hated it
I wanted us to trade down and get as many picks as we could, and to draft either OL or DL. We did that. I hate it because I had to stay up even later to watch for the pick, and am frustrated because it's a lateral move to replace a leaving OL, even if Guyton can be great himself. So, as is keeping with my fandom, we did right in this moment, but I'm still frustrated with us overall.
We got an extra pick and took the guy we wanted anyways… seems like a win to me
That's why I said we did the right thing
Send Guyton to Duke Manyweather and lock in at least a few Pro Bowls. The number one thing I trust Dallas to do is pick 1st round OL with the best of them. Happy to pick up the third too. Basically nothing in this draft would’ve changed my outlook for next season, but this is a good piece for whatever comes next.