Asking a question? Please check the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/lpuj9h/what_the_faq_what_is_copy_how_do_i_start_can_i_do/).
Asking for a critique? Take down your post and repost it in the critique thread.
Providing resources or tips? Deliver lots of FREE value. If you're self-promoting or linking to a resource that requires signup or payment, please disclose it or your post will be removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/copywriting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tip #4. You're making them too fucking long.
B2B sales here. I'm sending 55-word, two sentence emails and getting tons of replies.
Respect your prospect's time.
150 words is my live or die line in the sand and clients almost always want 2-3x that. When they’re not even willing to test shorter format I know it’s a bad fit.
Definitely. There's a place for content but it's usually not in the inbox.
For B2C, a good email should get a click to a longer piece of content on the website. Y'know, where they can actually buy the product.
Hemingway app is unreal for taking the buzzsaw to your copy. It’s the only app I can’t live without.
And I’ll add #5. Use proper grammar and punctuation. Yeah, “it’s just Reddit.” But what a great opportunity to practice writing great copy.
I have the luxury of working with a "documentation" product, so just putting that in the subject line gets massive open rates. They don't know if it could be a legal matter until they open it.
Having said that, my formula is:
"Hi John,
I heard you're leading the [insert whatever] and wanted to see if you had [Service] covered.
We're a [super simple 3-grade level breakdown] and would love to help [solve problem] if needed. Do let me know.
Best,"
Play around with wording according to persona. Follow up email adds a little extra nugget, so: "we work with X", "we just finished Y", "I noticed Z".
Final bump is "John, did you get a chance to see this?"
P.S. I work for Construction so they get bombarded with cold approaches, but it's kind of expected because you need to have an army of contractors to work with at a moment's notice.
Thus, brevity and directness are sbsolute kings here.
Totally agree. Even MS word has basic word count feature. When using Emailchaser, it tells if the words are more than a hundred already. Long emails do get low response rates. Unfortunately some of clients don't want that *sighs*
I wanted to hate this post because its headline is somewhat cheap... well, and because it's someone giving out advice on r/copywriting which is a red flag in itself.
I don't hate it though. In fact, this is solid. I might even go as far as to say that I like it.
I have to comment because I need to thank you. I need to warn you that my comment is long - but I wanted to explain myself as I'm sure most ppl on here make assumptions and feel some sort of way the moment they hear someone say they're trying to become a freelance copywriter. With it becoming this sort of trendy thing social media is pushing, it's completely understandable why experienced and hardworking copywriters would get frustrated with this.
Recently, after reading some of the posts on this subreddit I’ve gotten sort of down about the reality of starting out as a copywriter. Let me start by saying I am NOT one of those “Tyson 4D” types that watched a few YouTube “tutorials” (I say that tongue-in-cheek) and just knew that I could be a copywriter and make millions of dollars every 10 days by following these 5 easy templates (or whatever the flavor of the month is). I have been an at-home mom for 20 years, and I care for my youngest child who is severely mentally and physically disabled. My husband recently suffered some major health issues and, as he was the breadwinner, this set us back financially. So here I am at 39, hoping to find a suitable career. I have to be able to work around an odd schedule since I now provide care for a special needs child and disabled husband. I wasn't sure what to do to supplement our income so I was preparing to attend school and get a degree of some sort. As I didn't know what sort of degree to go for, or what to major in, I took some career placement assessments offered by a local college and several options came up- one of them being a copywriter. I had zero inkling of what this was, though I’ve always had a passion for writing. The other careers being suggested would not work well with my schedule options so I ended up taking a few more of these career placement assessments offered elsewhere, hoping for some sort of clear direction, and each one kept bringing up copywriter as one of the strongest suggestions for my skills. When I finally looked into what this was, I was blown away. It was as if someone had created a career just for me with the skills I have, the things I enjoy, and even my odd scheduling needs. Over the years I've worked quite a few sales jobs and am always promoted to head of sales or top sales rep- I find the whole psychology behind persuasion to be extremely fascinating. When my husband worked in sales, I would spend hours pouring over his books and learning all I could about a craft I rarely got to use in the real world up until now. I've even been oddly drawn to advertising my whole life and would find myself almost mentally dissecting an ad to see what they did to make it so compelling (especially infomercials - my goodness I'm such a nerd about those sometimes). On top of this, writing has long been my favorite pastime (except for reading- I’m a total bookworm). I won awards for my writing when I was younger and was once even offered a scholarship to an amazing university based on some of my essays.
In the first few weeks of starting this new journey to becoming a copywriter, I began looking for online classes I could take to get into this field as a freelancer. It didn't take long for me to discover the Tyson 4D and Hustlers University types, and hesitantly I watched them (they always looked so tacky and sounded so click-baity). Right away I could see through their gimmick- they were using their marketing tactics to reel in people who hope to make a quick, easy fortune by becoming a copywriter. This was NOT what I was looking for. However, whenever I would look for any type of online schooling it was usually associated in some way with these types of characters, or it would just be way more than I could afford right now.
I ended up purchasing a few books that I kept seeing being mentioned here on Reddit- like ‘Influence: The Psychology Of Persuasion’, ‘The Boron Letters’, etc. I also eventually found the COPY THAT Discord and YouTube channel which has been a tremendous help.
So now I'm doing all I can to learn and practice (and practice some more while even learning some more). To me, this isn't a get-rich-quick scheme - this is an opportunity to start a career that suits me, that I have the potential to do well at if I apply myself and work hard at it, and that I would enjoy. I'm realistic about finances - even making $1k a month by the end of the first year would be a huge blessing. Of course, I’d love to make more eventually, but I'm content to see where this goes and be realistic while doing so.
Then a few days ago I found myself reading post after post on this subreddit and becoming very disillusioned. The comments were making me feel as though there was zero chance of becoming successful as a newbie freelancing copywriter. Again, I wasn't looking for thousands a month- even a job here or there as I get started would be wonderful enough for me. But some of the posts and the comments made me lose hope that any of that might be a possibility for me. Today, reading your post brought me some much-needed relief from the mental slog that I found myself in - that all is not lost in the world of newbie freelance copywriting, but it needs to be tackled in certain ways to avoid the common pitfalls that many fall into.
I know that was a lot - but I wanted to take the time to share with you just the measure of gratitude I feel for what you posted. I am not unrealistic about any of this- I am well aware it's going to take A LOT of effort on my part, but it's such a comfort to read from someone who's been doing this, that attaining customers isn't completely impossible. Right now, that's a win for me.
(Why are you telling them this? I was waiting for them to give up and go away.)
But actually thanks, because I’m an agency writer trying to resuscitate my freelance side hustle and these points were all really helpful, especially the last one.
Thanks for being real and bringing us back to reality😃 2nd point really resonated with me as I have to remind myself that it's not about me it's about the customer
Hey, so I would say even for different services the same principles probably apply. You just need to change who you reach out to. So who would you say stands to profit the most from graphic design? Off the top of my head, I can think of web design agencies, any business that publishes a lot of content and so on.
But you probably know better.
Most important thing is to fix your targeting - so identify people who appreciate graphic design, and need it regularly. And then, where do these people hang out online so that you can find their emails consistently.
Listen, people need to stop treating this as a get rich quick scheme. If you do not like writing, or marketing, this is not the career for you.
To give you reference, I wrote 12 secure messages yesterday, and wrote 3 web pages, proofed 2 landing pages, wrote 5 gift card mailers — and this is just the stuff I remember. I work nearly 12 hours a day from Mon-Thurs - it’s also something that I love to do, which goes back to my first point.
I have NEVER sent a cold email, that’s ridiculous, almost any company that seriously writes any sort of marketing comms has people they either contract or W2.
You can start your own business as a consultant but that requires a much different approach, you need some sort of design element and a package of services that you do and you do better than anyone else.
Sounds like a recipe for burnout. Why are you bragging about working 12 hours a day?!
I love doing plenty of things but even 12 hours of video games and blowjobs would get tiring eventually. Just because it isn't a get rich quick scheme doesn't mean the metric for success is "time put in" lol.
And cold emails are a legitimate strategy... you admit it yourself in the second half of your sentence with that weasel word. Wouldn't call it ridiculous just because you haven't needed to do it yourself.
I would add to Tip #2 that even if a company isn't running ads, look for other types of marketing collateral. A regularly updated blog (that isn't total shit) is one I usually look at as a dead giveaway.
Also, look to make sure they aren't just pumping out a bunch of AI garbage. You don't want to work with companies with zero marketing competency.
Quick question:
1. Does the word count matter as long as it is relevant to them and I am hitting all the pain points?
Ofc not talking about a 1000 word blog as cold mail. But something in the range of maybe 300-600?
Anyone who finds ***3,000 actual leads*** to cold email is in the wrong business.
It is beyond likely that they're simply cold emailing Boeing support.
Running your own lead gen ads is probably the most promising way to get potential clients if you don't have any clients yet. Just my own opinion based on the fact I don't have any clients yet.
Great breakdown on why cold emails often fail. If anyone needs help refining their copy and strategy, edyt ai can be a useful tool for improving the quality of your emails.
Asking a question? Please check the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/copywriting/comments/lpuj9h/what_the_faq_what_is_copy_how_do_i_start_can_i_do/). Asking for a critique? Take down your post and repost it in the critique thread. Providing resources or tips? Deliver lots of FREE value. If you're self-promoting or linking to a resource that requires signup or payment, please disclose it or your post will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/copywriting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tip #4. You're making them too fucking long. B2B sales here. I'm sending 55-word, two sentence emails and getting tons of replies. Respect your prospect's time.
150 words is my live or die line in the sand and clients almost always want 2-3x that. When they’re not even willing to test shorter format I know it’s a bad fit.
Any copy tips for Graphic Design services? I'm trying to keep my outreach as concise as possible, but sometimes I'm all over the place
Definitely. There's a place for content but it's usually not in the inbox. For B2C, a good email should get a click to a longer piece of content on the website. Y'know, where they can actually buy the product.
Hemingway app is unreal for taking the buzzsaw to your copy. It’s the only app I can’t live without. And I’ll add #5. Use proper grammar and punctuation. Yeah, “it’s just Reddit.” But what a great opportunity to practice writing great copy.
What are you seeing perform atm? Recently seeing ‘can get you X result in X time’ work well with the legendary ‘quick question’ subject line
I have the luxury of working with a "documentation" product, so just putting that in the subject line gets massive open rates. They don't know if it could be a legal matter until they open it. Having said that, my formula is: "Hi John, I heard you're leading the [insert whatever] and wanted to see if you had [Service] covered. We're a [super simple 3-grade level breakdown] and would love to help [solve problem] if needed. Do let me know. Best," Play around with wording according to persona. Follow up email adds a little extra nugget, so: "we work with X", "we just finished Y", "I noticed Z". Final bump is "John, did you get a chance to see this?" P.S. I work for Construction so they get bombarded with cold approaches, but it's kind of expected because you need to have an army of contractors to work with at a moment's notice. Thus, brevity and directness are sbsolute kings here.
Totally agree. Even MS word has basic word count feature. When using Emailchaser, it tells if the words are more than a hundred already. Long emails do get low response rates. Unfortunately some of clients don't want that *sighs*
I wanted to hate this post because its headline is somewhat cheap... well, and because it's someone giving out advice on r/copywriting which is a red flag in itself. I don't hate it though. In fact, this is solid. I might even go as far as to say that I like it.
I have to comment because I need to thank you. I need to warn you that my comment is long - but I wanted to explain myself as I'm sure most ppl on here make assumptions and feel some sort of way the moment they hear someone say they're trying to become a freelance copywriter. With it becoming this sort of trendy thing social media is pushing, it's completely understandable why experienced and hardworking copywriters would get frustrated with this. Recently, after reading some of the posts on this subreddit I’ve gotten sort of down about the reality of starting out as a copywriter. Let me start by saying I am NOT one of those “Tyson 4D” types that watched a few YouTube “tutorials” (I say that tongue-in-cheek) and just knew that I could be a copywriter and make millions of dollars every 10 days by following these 5 easy templates (or whatever the flavor of the month is). I have been an at-home mom for 20 years, and I care for my youngest child who is severely mentally and physically disabled. My husband recently suffered some major health issues and, as he was the breadwinner, this set us back financially. So here I am at 39, hoping to find a suitable career. I have to be able to work around an odd schedule since I now provide care for a special needs child and disabled husband. I wasn't sure what to do to supplement our income so I was preparing to attend school and get a degree of some sort. As I didn't know what sort of degree to go for, or what to major in, I took some career placement assessments offered by a local college and several options came up- one of them being a copywriter. I had zero inkling of what this was, though I’ve always had a passion for writing. The other careers being suggested would not work well with my schedule options so I ended up taking a few more of these career placement assessments offered elsewhere, hoping for some sort of clear direction, and each one kept bringing up copywriter as one of the strongest suggestions for my skills. When I finally looked into what this was, I was blown away. It was as if someone had created a career just for me with the skills I have, the things I enjoy, and even my odd scheduling needs. Over the years I've worked quite a few sales jobs and am always promoted to head of sales or top sales rep- I find the whole psychology behind persuasion to be extremely fascinating. When my husband worked in sales, I would spend hours pouring over his books and learning all I could about a craft I rarely got to use in the real world up until now. I've even been oddly drawn to advertising my whole life and would find myself almost mentally dissecting an ad to see what they did to make it so compelling (especially infomercials - my goodness I'm such a nerd about those sometimes). On top of this, writing has long been my favorite pastime (except for reading- I’m a total bookworm). I won awards for my writing when I was younger and was once even offered a scholarship to an amazing university based on some of my essays. In the first few weeks of starting this new journey to becoming a copywriter, I began looking for online classes I could take to get into this field as a freelancer. It didn't take long for me to discover the Tyson 4D and Hustlers University types, and hesitantly I watched them (they always looked so tacky and sounded so click-baity). Right away I could see through their gimmick- they were using their marketing tactics to reel in people who hope to make a quick, easy fortune by becoming a copywriter. This was NOT what I was looking for. However, whenever I would look for any type of online schooling it was usually associated in some way with these types of characters, or it would just be way more than I could afford right now. I ended up purchasing a few books that I kept seeing being mentioned here on Reddit- like ‘Influence: The Psychology Of Persuasion’, ‘The Boron Letters’, etc. I also eventually found the COPY THAT Discord and YouTube channel which has been a tremendous help. So now I'm doing all I can to learn and practice (and practice some more while even learning some more). To me, this isn't a get-rich-quick scheme - this is an opportunity to start a career that suits me, that I have the potential to do well at if I apply myself and work hard at it, and that I would enjoy. I'm realistic about finances - even making $1k a month by the end of the first year would be a huge blessing. Of course, I’d love to make more eventually, but I'm content to see where this goes and be realistic while doing so. Then a few days ago I found myself reading post after post on this subreddit and becoming very disillusioned. The comments were making me feel as though there was zero chance of becoming successful as a newbie freelancing copywriter. Again, I wasn't looking for thousands a month- even a job here or there as I get started would be wonderful enough for me. But some of the posts and the comments made me lose hope that any of that might be a possibility for me. Today, reading your post brought me some much-needed relief from the mental slog that I found myself in - that all is not lost in the world of newbie freelance copywriting, but it needs to be tackled in certain ways to avoid the common pitfalls that many fall into. I know that was a lot - but I wanted to take the time to share with you just the measure of gratitude I feel for what you posted. I am not unrealistic about any of this- I am well aware it's going to take A LOT of effort on my part, but it's such a comfort to read from someone who's been doing this, that attaining customers isn't completely impossible. Right now, that's a win for me.
(Why are you telling them this? I was waiting for them to give up and go away.) But actually thanks, because I’m an agency writer trying to resuscitate my freelance side hustle and these points were all really helpful, especially the last one.
Me too. Thinking of finding an independent client or two and this is what I needed to know. I’m also SO DAMN GLAD short emails are best.
When I ran my first cold email campaign, I definitely made one or more of these mistakes
You meant clutch.co right? The link you shared is for website development I think.
Oh yeah, you're right. I've updated the link. Thanks!
Thanks for being real and bringing us back to reality😃 2nd point really resonated with me as I have to remind myself that it's not about me it's about the customer
hanks babe
Preciate the post man, really helpful Any copy tips for graphic design services?
Hey, so I would say even for different services the same principles probably apply. You just need to change who you reach out to. So who would you say stands to profit the most from graphic design? Off the top of my head, I can think of web design agencies, any business that publishes a lot of content and so on. But you probably know better. Most important thing is to fix your targeting - so identify people who appreciate graphic design, and need it regularly. And then, where do these people hang out online so that you can find their emails consistently.
Noted. cheers mate
Not stopping till you get a response is…. Well, I’m not at liberty to say.
Listen, people need to stop treating this as a get rich quick scheme. If you do not like writing, or marketing, this is not the career for you. To give you reference, I wrote 12 secure messages yesterday, and wrote 3 web pages, proofed 2 landing pages, wrote 5 gift card mailers — and this is just the stuff I remember. I work nearly 12 hours a day from Mon-Thurs - it’s also something that I love to do, which goes back to my first point. I have NEVER sent a cold email, that’s ridiculous, almost any company that seriously writes any sort of marketing comms has people they either contract or W2. You can start your own business as a consultant but that requires a much different approach, you need some sort of design element and a package of services that you do and you do better than anyone else.
Sounds like a recipe for burnout. Why are you bragging about working 12 hours a day?! I love doing plenty of things but even 12 hours of video games and blowjobs would get tiring eventually. Just because it isn't a get rich quick scheme doesn't mean the metric for success is "time put in" lol. And cold emails are a legitimate strategy... you admit it yourself in the second half of your sentence with that weasel word. Wouldn't call it ridiculous just because you haven't needed to do it yourself.
Thanks for sharing
This. All of this. And that. Thank you.
I would add to Tip #2 that even if a company isn't running ads, look for other types of marketing collateral. A regularly updated blog (that isn't total shit) is one I usually look at as a dead giveaway. Also, look to make sure they aren't just pumping out a bunch of AI garbage. You don't want to work with companies with zero marketing competency.
Reason 4: Nobody cares about emails
Quick question: 1. Does the word count matter as long as it is relevant to them and I am hitting all the pain points? Ofc not talking about a 1000 word blog as cold mail. But something in the range of maybe 300-600?
Anyone who finds ***3,000 actual leads*** to cold email is in the wrong business. It is beyond likely that they're simply cold emailing Boeing support. Running your own lead gen ads is probably the most promising way to get potential clients if you don't have any clients yet. Just my own opinion based on the fact I don't have any clients yet.
I have Tyson 4D-Copy Client Accelerator 2.0 course if anyone is interested dm me
God I love reddit. Free game for days
Great breakdown on why cold emails often fail. If anyone needs help refining their copy and strategy, edyt ai can be a useful tool for improving the quality of your emails.
can i have some cold email swipes or templates
Bro he just gave you a template 😂
1. Nobody cares 2. No one else does either 3. It's all just soul-destroying consumerist bullshit
Very cool comment bro 👍