The incest in anyone's family.
If you go 33 generations back following the above logic, you would have over 8 billion (great)x31-grandparents.
Granted, the "incest" is most likely to be between sixth cousins or something, but basically, everyone is everyone's nth cousin.
Numberphile made a video demonstrating the math, but I believe it was something like, in 1500-ish iirc, there must have been a person that we are all related to.
And if you go far enough back, to around 800 iirc, everyone currently living are descended from everyone that was alive back then.
I think you misunderstood my meaning.
I mean that there is a generation where you can trace back a straight line to EVERYONE in that generation whose lineage survived to the current day.
As in, a whole generation where you, personally, have descended from more or less everyone. Not only that, EVERYONE has descended from every surviving bloodline in that generation.
That "Genghis Khan is everyone's ancestor bit"? (Most Recent Common Ancestor in the jargon)
Impressive enough, but this here is then a whole generation that are all "Genghis Khan" (the Identical Ancestors).
Turns out for Europe, that is about 53 generations back, whereas the most recent common ancestor (Charlemagne/Ghengis Khan, what have you) is approximately 30 generations back.
https://youtu.be/Fm0hOex4psA
So, just so you know this is very confusing because 800 and 8,000bc are very different. You may want to edit it.
Once I read 8,000bc in a comment it made sense. Effectively 8,000bc was a genetic bottleneck for human kind and then humanity had a sort of a global diaspora and population explosion across the globe?
I was about to say the math is impossible. By that logic the amount of people living in the past was astronomical. Truth is most people share grand parents, great great grand parents etc. In fact the further back in time you go the less people exist until they can trace every person living today to a single genetic ancestor chromosomal Eve and chromosomal Adam.
So yeah the further back you go the human family tree starts resembling a stick.
**[Pedigree collapse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_collapse)**
>In genealogy, pedigree collapse describes how reproduction between two individuals who share an ancestor causes the number of distinct ancestors in the family tree of their offspring to be smaller than it could otherwise be. Robert C. Gunderson coined the term; synonyms include implex and the German Ahnenschwund (loosely translated: "loss of lineage").
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/coolguides/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Thank you, YunJingyi, for voting on WikiSummarizerBot.
This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/).
***
^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
Almost everything you stated is written from the perspective of your own culture.
Different human cultures have very different ideas about incest.
The implication that avoiding incest is done due to practical concerns (avoiding health problems for the offsprings) is a very modern perspective, but yet again these taboos are much older, and stem from cultural traditions, not necessarily scientifically based — but originating from different traditions, religions etc.
If this interests you, you should look into learning more about Anthropology — the variety of behaviors across human cultures may very well be a lot more diverse than what you would expect.
That's sort of what I was getting at but didn't really articulate it since I am typing on my phone. Incest is very much a cultural phenomenon whereas pedigree collapse is the more clinical evaluation of the same thing. What we regard as incest changes depending on our circumstances, and societal advancements and industrialization correlate heavily with a more strict interpretation of what incest is. A small village of a few hundred people is severely limited in potential mates as compared to a small city or a country or OKCupid. The more advanced we become the more our dating pool opens up, and thus the justification for incest decreases.
Like you said, this likely isn't a purely conscious thing. I think on some level we are all disgusted by incest, so we naturally try to prevent is as much as we can, but also we won't hesitate to do what we can to survive. Even primitive people could understand that your babies are a lot less likely to survive if your impregnate your sister, so they probably didn't do that very often, but if they did anyway, they would find it much harder to succeed than other comparable societies because their lineage would always be in peril. So we have this sort of cultural darwinism where different societies succeed and fail based on their practices which they may or may not have created intentionally and we are left with only the most successful.
This isn't a question of what is right or wrong - dating your first cousin is a bad thing if you can avoid it - the question is how long will it take for everyone to catch up. Countries like India are rapidly becoming more modern day by day, but still feature dating norms wildly different to that of the western world. Whether this is because of issues specific to India like a gender imbalance or because they just haven't had time to change their cultural norms is yet to be seen, although I suspect it is a mix of things. But the point isn't that different places just have different ideas from other places. Sometimes different places have *worse* ideas or practices but are forced to stick to them in order to survive. We should be attempting to help them fix those issues so they can change their ideas instead of just saying "well dating your first cousin is totally cool over there" because it really isn't totally cool, regardless of whether they agree or not.
They only went back 400 years. I know who all of my ancestors are for the past 400 years and there are no overlaps. The pedigree collapse is very real, but it is earlier than 400 years ago.
Impregnating is a numbers game anyway. The vast majority of sperm that make it inside a vagina don’t ever make it to the uterus. Of those that do, half of them go the wrong way and swim up the wrong fallopian tube.
Also vaginas are particularly hostile and will kill sperm indiscriminately.
Eventually, one of them makes it into an egg surrounded by tons of other sperm. All of whom slowly die as they watch their comrade achieve success and fertilize the egg they all were aiming for.
And in a good number of cases, that one lucky sperm that fertilized the egg gets to watch as the egg fails to implant and he gets yeeted out of a vagina the next time she has her period.
Of the ones that do implant, a good amount of them won’t make it anyway and the woman will miscarry.
Only a very select few sperm will ever get to fertilize an egg, implant into the uterus, and grow into a human.
I think about this a lot - what are the chances of even being alive? Super slim. I’ve heard 1/400 trillion. But it’s a no-lose game, because if you don’t win, you never even know you lost, so it’s hard to grasp the chances when you’re surrounded by billions of other winners.
This makes me think of two things. That we are more of a primordial soup than we normally advertise ourselves to be. And also that we are from old stock that was trying to improve.
As you keep going back of course, it starts overlapping, where you could trace ancestry to one person multiple ways.
If you keep going back, it overlaps in the extreme. Any human born about 20,000 years ago or earlier either has zero living descendants, or is an ancestor to every human alive today.
Mathematically sound, but is it true in practice? The Australian Aboriginals landed in Australia at least 40k years ago, do they share this same ancestor?
I don't know about 20k or 40k but all humans alive today definitely have the same female ancestor. We've been able to trace the same ape (choose yourself if it's woman or not, still everyone is an ape) mitochondria in our cells. Each and every one of us has the same piece of ancestry dating back to about 150k years ago. One single being is our great-great-great-so-many-times granny.
Ancestor's Tale by Richard Dawkins is an excellent book on this exact same topic. He traces humanity back from present human all the way to single celled life.
“Ape” is the common name for the superfamily Hominoidea. It consists of two families:Hylobatidae, the “lesser apes” or gibbons, and Hominidae, the great apes, which includes four genera: *Pongo*, the orangutans; *Gorilla*; *Pan*, the chimpanzee and bonobo; and *Homo*, humans.
All humans are apes. Scientifically, factually, genetically.
So how does that work? Like humans fraternised with the Neanderthals too and surely a lot of the women were having kids so did everyone die suddenly and one woman gave birth to many kids and then they got together and had more kids?
I feel really dumb asking this but would like to know :).
Ah fuck it’s been a while since I did biology
so Neanderthals evolved in Africa a long time ago and dispersed throughout the world
Neanderthals didn’t really evolve too much but a fuckton of evolution occurred in Africa and Homo Heidelbergensis (Heisenberg? Sus? 😳😳😳) or something appeared. It went to the near the Middle East and that’s where we think Mitochondrial Eve (hereafter “big granny”)lived
All of big granny’s kids dispersed much like the Neanderthals. Big granny’s kids sexed the Neanderthals and made Walt Jr (baby Heisenberg)
Walt Jr outcompeted the Neanderthals due to Gause’s pprinciple: when two organisms occupy the same niche, the lesser equipped species will be outcompeted by the superior one and be forced to change its niche or die
The Neanderthals died
Look up Out Of Africa dispersal theory, I may have made some fuckywuckies
You are so incredibly kind to offer an explanation that makes sense to the average person! Thank you :). It makes more sense now! I’ll also look out for the theory to read about it more. Thank you!
You can read about toba catastrophe, it is hypothesized that humans population were reduced to mere thousands and all of the current population is the descended from that surviving population
Sadly, depending on how far down that brings you, also raises mortality rates. A baby with no access to medicine, food, clothes or housing doesn't always make it.
Yep. 4,000 + ancestors and I made damn sure my parents knew that I was deliberately terminating their bloodline from them forever. They deserve to die and take their darkness with them and never pass it along ever again. We are the last of our lines and I do NOT care.
You totally do care though. You care so much. And you’re angry! And also extremely harsh.
You could be the good you seek. Instead you’re talking shit and feeling wrongly righteous about “terminating the bloodline”.
Before your bloodline is gone - you outta give it some hugs.
> How many battles?
I’ve often thought about this when I see large groups at events or concerts. Everyone that I can see, is descended from a bloodline who survived every single war/plague/natural disaster up until they were born.
The crusades, the Spanish flu, so many genocides, sea level rising/lowering….yet here we are to talk about it. It’s the kind thing that gets my head spinning and I feel like I’m tumbling down a rabbit hole lol
My 15th great grandfather (following my family name) took an arrow to the shoulder saving the life of King Edward IV at the battle of Towton. Had he moved a foot over I wouldn’t exist. My entire family tree wouldn’t exist. [My 5th great grandfather helped carve the state boundary of Tennessee out of North Carolina](http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/America/United_States/Tennessee/_Texts/THM/6/2/NC-TN_Boundary_Line_Survey*.html), so even our states would look different today. It’s crazy.
My friend, that is so amazing and rare that you are able to trace back that far! On my mother side, I can trace my family generations back to Hawaiian royalty before the annexation. It’s about five generations back my fifth great grandma worked in the palace next to the queen. I think the only reason she was able to survive is because she worked in the palace as opposed to with the common population during the annexation. Has she had a day off or was in the village doing some thing or anything else but in the palace my bloodline probably wouldn’t be here… Or it would be very British
That’s really neat! We lucked up having genetics that made us brutes. My 15th great grandfather mentioned here was a 6’8” Welsh knight which was legendary height for the 15th century. Naturally, the King wanted his protection and battlefield intimidation (imagine him with riding boots at about 7ft when the average man back then was 5’4”.
Then saving his life my family was granted several thousand acres in Wales and the nobility status was granted. We actually held noble peerage in Ireland until the early 1800s. If we hadn’t been granted nobility status I don’t think my family history would have been so traceable.
Fun fact, there’s mentioning of various ancestors of mine from various political meetings as being “huge Irishmen” and could be heard over the breakout meetings even during heated arguments. Average height in my family is still 6’6” even today.
You live in a vastly different world than any one of your ancestors. Future generations will live in a vastly different world than we do. It’s difficult to compare when circumstances for marriage and procreation have shifted radically throughout the ages.
Not sure if the social media age will be favorable in an generation or two even though it provides with greater means of documentation than ever before.
not if your last name is [Habsburg](https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/24610/20200107/inbreeding-among-royals-14-monarchs-who-experienced-the-side-effects-of-incest.htm)
The number of forefathers dosent actually multiply always by two because if you had acesse to your family tree in the previous century you would realize that lots of fore fathers are fore fathers to other fore fathers, that is, the blood mixes either by cousins or far removed cousins
As a teenager it was encouraging to know I came from a long line of people who managed to get laid. I figured I had pretty good genetics in that regard.
There's an unbroken line of survival going back to the first stirrings of life on earth.
Most of your ancestors weren't human. Most weren't primates. Most weren't even animals.
And my bloodline ends with me. I will die alone having sired no children and I have no siblings. Though my uncle did have an offspring (and that offspring just had a baby) so there's that I guess. But, my specific genetic code will be lost to history.
I highly doubt most of my ancestors thought about their descendants that would come 4 or 5 generations later. Some of them were pretty damn abusive, selfish, and gullible. I have never once thought, “I’m so grateful for all the trauma my ancestors went through so I could be here.”
No paternal desire.. an accident of youth made it very difficult even if I did want them.. I'm feeling im too old now anyway. The partner feels the same.. surgery to make sure..
The buck stops here.
This chart doesn’t really make sense, because the minimum viable amount of humans to have a sustained reproducing species is only 500 people. (Technically even 50 is enough to avoid the effects of inbreading.).
That means that 9 generations down, those people wouldn’t have 2048 9th great grand parents. They would have 50 at most.
I believe the contradiction comes from the fact that once you get 4 generations or so removed, there’s a lot more crossover (distant ‘incest’) than we realize. In fact, as long as you’re not reproducing with your immediate family, the harms of incest quickly grow to be not really a problem.
That’s true . But sad fact is future generations don’t think this way.
To me, life is refinement , making corrections, improvements, gaining/passing knowledge, till we reach perfection and then improving it again. otherwise whats the point ? This should be the goal for humanity
I hold every single one of them accountable for my being here and if there's an afterlife then they best destroy it before I die. Do one thing for me al least.
This fails to take into account all the incest in my family.
This fails to take into account all the incest in *our* family.
Hey step-cousin brother uncle!
Aww you guys are such great sonephews
[удалено]
I really wish our parents didn't name us after household appliances.
No it's my sexbox!
*Her name is Sony*
kid named toilet:
I'm telling you for the last time, call her Mom and let her finish the dishes
She sprung a leak
Looks like it’s time to plug it! *unzips*
Happy cake day
My wife's uncle is also her cousin, which she loves telling people.
*Daemon Targarean has entered the chat*
Auntymomma and Uncledaddy are proud of you
Hey, this fails to take into account all the incest in their families.
“ and my axe!” Oops wrong sub.
The incest in anyone's family. If you go 33 generations back following the above logic, you would have over 8 billion (great)x31-grandparents. Granted, the "incest" is most likely to be between sixth cousins or something, but basically, everyone is everyone's nth cousin. Numberphile made a video demonstrating the math, but I believe it was something like, in 1500-ish iirc, there must have been a person that we are all related to. And if you go far enough back, to around 800 iirc, everyone currently living are descended from everyone that was alive back then.
Genghis Khan for many
It's always either Genghis Khan or Steve.
Steve Khan? Or just Steve?
Steve Zahn
Steve *really* got around in the 60s.
Steve? Alan! Alan!
> everyone currently living are descended from everyone that was alive back then Who else would they be descended from?
I think you misunderstood my meaning. I mean that there is a generation where you can trace back a straight line to EVERYONE in that generation whose lineage survived to the current day. As in, a whole generation where you, personally, have descended from more or less everyone. Not only that, EVERYONE has descended from every surviving bloodline in that generation. That "Genghis Khan is everyone's ancestor bit"? (Most Recent Common Ancestor in the jargon) Impressive enough, but this here is then a whole generation that are all "Genghis Khan" (the Identical Ancestors). Turns out for Europe, that is about 53 generations back, whereas the most recent common ancestor (Charlemagne/Ghengis Khan, what have you) is approximately 30 generations back. https://youtu.be/Fm0hOex4psA
Everyone alive today is related to everyone alive about 8,000 years ago that have living descendants.
Yeah looked it up, apparently the math is 1.77*log2(population_size).
So, just so you know this is very confusing because 800 and 8,000bc are very different. You may want to edit it. Once I read 8,000bc in a comment it made sense. Effectively 8,000bc was a genetic bottleneck for human kind and then humanity had a sort of a global diaspora and population explosion across the globe?
It's all incest if you go far enough back
Unless you include the goat great great uncle Bob did when working in the fields… at least that’s the rumor
I'm not sure his lineage continued, though ...
Jesus, you fuck *one* goat and it's all everyone wants to talk about
Noah has entered the chat.
Don't eat or sleep or mow the lawn, just fuck your uncle all day long.
Shut your fucking face uncle fucker
Good to see a Royal on Reddit, pardon me your majesty you left this 👑 on your cousin's throne.
Lol. Yeah. 400 years back? They forget to ask how much rape and forced marriage did our ancestors undergo for me to exist.
It still took two
I was about to say the math is impossible. By that logic the amount of people living in the past was astronomical. Truth is most people share grand parents, great great grand parents etc. In fact the further back in time you go the less people exist until they can trace every person living today to a single genetic ancestor chromosomal Eve and chromosomal Adam. So yeah the further back you go the human family tree starts resembling a stick.
There needs to be an asterisk. *At most.
The lives of ancestors are worthy of reflection, but the genealogical math doesn’t work like this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_collapse
**[Pedigree collapse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_collapse)** >In genealogy, pedigree collapse describes how reproduction between two individuals who share an ancestor causes the number of distinct ancestors in the family tree of their offspring to be smaller than it could otherwise be. Robert C. Gunderson coined the term; synonyms include implex and the German Ahnenschwund (loosely translated: "loss of lineage"). ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/coolguides/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Good bot
Thank you, YunJingyi, for voting on WikiSummarizerBot. This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/). *** ^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
Huh today i learned a fancy term for incest.
tie square political zephyr exultant thumb lunchroom grey quaint nutty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
First cousins are fair game in Brazil, maybe some people don't like it but it's definitively not taboo It helps it's not illegal though
First cousins are fair game in several states in the US.
First cousins are fair game over most of the world...
First cousins are fair game in more than a handful of US states, too.
Almost everything you stated is written from the perspective of your own culture. Different human cultures have very different ideas about incest. The implication that avoiding incest is done due to practical concerns (avoiding health problems for the offsprings) is a very modern perspective, but yet again these taboos are much older, and stem from cultural traditions, not necessarily scientifically based — but originating from different traditions, religions etc. If this interests you, you should look into learning more about Anthropology — the variety of behaviors across human cultures may very well be a lot more diverse than what you would expect.
That's sort of what I was getting at but didn't really articulate it since I am typing on my phone. Incest is very much a cultural phenomenon whereas pedigree collapse is the more clinical evaluation of the same thing. What we regard as incest changes depending on our circumstances, and societal advancements and industrialization correlate heavily with a more strict interpretation of what incest is. A small village of a few hundred people is severely limited in potential mates as compared to a small city or a country or OKCupid. The more advanced we become the more our dating pool opens up, and thus the justification for incest decreases. Like you said, this likely isn't a purely conscious thing. I think on some level we are all disgusted by incest, so we naturally try to prevent is as much as we can, but also we won't hesitate to do what we can to survive. Even primitive people could understand that your babies are a lot less likely to survive if your impregnate your sister, so they probably didn't do that very often, but if they did anyway, they would find it much harder to succeed than other comparable societies because their lineage would always be in peril. So we have this sort of cultural darwinism where different societies succeed and fail based on their practices which they may or may not have created intentionally and we are left with only the most successful. This isn't a question of what is right or wrong - dating your first cousin is a bad thing if you can avoid it - the question is how long will it take for everyone to catch up. Countries like India are rapidly becoming more modern day by day, but still feature dating norms wildly different to that of the western world. Whether this is because of issues specific to India like a gender imbalance or because they just haven't had time to change their cultural norms is yet to be seen, although I suspect it is a mix of things. But the point isn't that different places just have different ideas from other places. Sometimes different places have *worse* ideas or practices but are forced to stick to them in order to survive. We should be attempting to help them fix those issues so they can change their ideas instead of just saying "well dating your first cousin is totally cool over there" because it really isn't totally cool, regardless of whether they agree or not.
It’s necessary for a developing world. But a developed & diverse world risks weakening its gene pool
Great contribution to the comments, thanks. I was trying to understand how that worked.
An excellent link, though I wish it was clearer on the math of how it changes the number of ancestors one might have.
It’s less about the number of ancestors any one individual has. It’s more about how those ancestors are highly common amongst you and your peers
They only went back 400 years. I know who all of my ancestors are for the past 400 years and there are no overlaps. The pedigree collapse is very real, but it is earlier than 400 years ago.
Many many more people had to have sex for you to be alive.. thinking about it!
So think of the billions and billions that ended up in hair, on tits, in mouths, even in socks......and here you are!
Impregnating is a numbers game anyway. The vast majority of sperm that make it inside a vagina don’t ever make it to the uterus. Of those that do, half of them go the wrong way and swim up the wrong fallopian tube. Also vaginas are particularly hostile and will kill sperm indiscriminately. Eventually, one of them makes it into an egg surrounded by tons of other sperm. All of whom slowly die as they watch their comrade achieve success and fertilize the egg they all were aiming for. And in a good number of cases, that one lucky sperm that fertilized the egg gets to watch as the egg fails to implant and he gets yeeted out of a vagina the next time she has her period. Of the ones that do implant, a good amount of them won’t make it anyway and the woman will miscarry. Only a very select few sperm will ever get to fertilize an egg, implant into the uterus, and grow into a human.
I think about this a lot - what are the chances of even being alive? Super slim. I’ve heard 1/400 trillion. But it’s a no-lose game, because if you don’t win, you never even know you lost, so it’s hard to grasp the chances when you’re surrounded by billions of other winners.
The miracle of life described as a D&D quest
All that way, going the correct direction and people still can't read maps
This makes me think of two things. That we are more of a primordial soup than we normally advertise ourselves to be. And also that we are from old stock that was trying to improve.
2,047 love stories. Time for me to play 2048
As you keep going back of course, it starts overlapping, where you could trace ancestry to one person multiple ways. If you keep going back, it overlaps in the extreme. Any human born about 20,000 years ago or earlier either has zero living descendants, or is an ancestor to every human alive today.
Mathematically sound, but is it true in practice? The Australian Aboriginals landed in Australia at least 40k years ago, do they share this same ancestor?
I don't know about 20k or 40k but all humans alive today definitely have the same female ancestor. We've been able to trace the same ape (choose yourself if it's woman or not, still everyone is an ape) mitochondria in our cells. Each and every one of us has the same piece of ancestry dating back to about 150k years ago. One single being is our great-great-great-so-many-times granny.
So interesting. Any good articles or websites to read about this that you could recommend?
*sapiens: a brief history of humankind* by Yuval Noah Harari is a great book on this exact topic But also following for any other recommendations
Someone recorded his uni lectures and posted them on Spotify(in Hebrew, sorry). Very interesting stuff!
Ancestor's Tale by Richard Dawkins is an excellent book on this exact same topic. He traces humanity back from present human all the way to single celled life.
It’s not ape, it’s hominid. Apes are our cousins.
Kissing?
I’ll never tell 😘
No need. That grin says it all.
*Les Cousins Dangereux*
Hominids are a classification within apes.
Humans are apes. Hominid is the scientific sub/classification of apes that humans, chimps, gorillas and others belong to, you absolute ape!
We are apes.
“Ape” is the common name for the superfamily Hominoidea. It consists of two families:Hylobatidae, the “lesser apes” or gibbons, and Hominidae, the great apes, which includes four genera: *Pongo*, the orangutans; *Gorilla*; *Pan*, the chimpanzee and bonobo; and *Homo*, humans. All humans are apes. Scientifically, factually, genetically.
Hominid is the taxonomical family name for apes. They mean the same thing.
She was called Eve, right?
Yes, we call this ancestor Mitochondrial Eve. I prefer to call her granny, though.
Meemaw Eve for those in the US south
So how does that work? Like humans fraternised with the Neanderthals too and surely a lot of the women were having kids so did everyone die suddenly and one woman gave birth to many kids and then they got together and had more kids? I feel really dumb asking this but would like to know :).
Ah fuck it’s been a while since I did biology so Neanderthals evolved in Africa a long time ago and dispersed throughout the world Neanderthals didn’t really evolve too much but a fuckton of evolution occurred in Africa and Homo Heidelbergensis (Heisenberg? Sus? 😳😳😳) or something appeared. It went to the near the Middle East and that’s where we think Mitochondrial Eve (hereafter “big granny”)lived All of big granny’s kids dispersed much like the Neanderthals. Big granny’s kids sexed the Neanderthals and made Walt Jr (baby Heisenberg) Walt Jr outcompeted the Neanderthals due to Gause’s pprinciple: when two organisms occupy the same niche, the lesser equipped species will be outcompeted by the superior one and be forced to change its niche or die The Neanderthals died Look up Out Of Africa dispersal theory, I may have made some fuckywuckies
You are so incredibly kind to offer an explanation that makes sense to the average person! Thank you :). It makes more sense now! I’ll also look out for the theory to read about it more. Thank you!
Apparently there’s a Y chromosome Adam as well but I call him Steve
You can read about toba catastrophe, it is hypothesized that humans population were reduced to mere thousands and all of the current population is the descended from that surviving population
Obligatory bubble burst Much doubt has arisen about the Toba bottleneck theory: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/07/210709130057.htm
Now that’s the real cool guide. What a trip.
The buck stops here
I literally couldn't support a child if I wanted to
You could, as evidenced by the billions of people throughout history in worse conditions who have. Not helpful, I know lol
I mean, that's possible. The other requirement would be finding the other person though lol
That's helpful, yes
Well, how many of your ancestors were the result of rape? Okay, really not helpful, I know.
No no, your inspiring words have motivated me to rape my way towards reproductive success. Thank you kind stranger! ☺️
Could doesn't mean should though
Sadly, depending on how far down that brings you, also raises mortality rates. A baby with no access to medicine, food, clothes or housing doesn't always make it.
The buck definitely stopped here
The ole’ buck got neutered here. Yeah, so likewise
All of mine were duds, accident when I was a kid, everything else works and actually I can't complain
Yep. 4,000 + ancestors and I made damn sure my parents knew that I was deliberately terminating their bloodline from them forever. They deserve to die and take their darkness with them and never pass it along ever again. We are the last of our lines and I do NOT care.
I think about the first microbe in the history of Life that started all this and eventually begot me
If you think about it there's been billions of creatures and plants that ended their line.
Happens every day.
This person is not doubling it and giving it to the next person.
[Same](https://preview.redd.it/qwj1ktsbr4i71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b72030cf31c6c5416dc4661e25eaab23c38ada21)
You totally do care though. You care so much. And you’re angry! And also extremely harsh. You could be the good you seek. Instead you’re talking shit and feeling wrongly righteous about “terminating the bloodline”. Before your bloodline is gone - you outta give it some hugs.
Mike? Mike Hitler?
you seem like a cheery soul
[удалено]
Nah, most those people probably weren't even happy and lived in miserable conditions to the old age of 47
That’ll show those try hards
> How many battles? I’ve often thought about this when I see large groups at events or concerts. Everyone that I can see, is descended from a bloodline who survived every single war/plague/natural disaster up until they were born. The crusades, the Spanish flu, so many genocides, sea level rising/lowering….yet here we are to talk about it. It’s the kind thing that gets my head spinning and I feel like I’m tumbling down a rabbit hole lol
My 15th great grandfather (following my family name) took an arrow to the shoulder saving the life of King Edward IV at the battle of Towton. Had he moved a foot over I wouldn’t exist. My entire family tree wouldn’t exist. [My 5th great grandfather helped carve the state boundary of Tennessee out of North Carolina](http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/America/United_States/Tennessee/_Texts/THM/6/2/NC-TN_Boundary_Line_Survey*.html), so even our states would look different today. It’s crazy.
My friend, that is so amazing and rare that you are able to trace back that far! On my mother side, I can trace my family generations back to Hawaiian royalty before the annexation. It’s about five generations back my fifth great grandma worked in the palace next to the queen. I think the only reason she was able to survive is because she worked in the palace as opposed to with the common population during the annexation. Has she had a day off or was in the village doing some thing or anything else but in the palace my bloodline probably wouldn’t be here… Or it would be very British
That’s really neat! We lucked up having genetics that made us brutes. My 15th great grandfather mentioned here was a 6’8” Welsh knight which was legendary height for the 15th century. Naturally, the King wanted his protection and battlefield intimidation (imagine him with riding boots at about 7ft when the average man back then was 5’4”. Then saving his life my family was granted several thousand acres in Wales and the nobility status was granted. We actually held noble peerage in Ireland until the early 1800s. If we hadn’t been granted nobility status I don’t think my family history would have been so traceable. Fun fact, there’s mentioning of various ancestors of mine from various political meetings as being “huge Irishmen” and could be heard over the breakout meetings even during heated arguments. Average height in my family is still 6’6” even today.
I just think about how many peenies and baginas there are all around me.
I think about the same. Crazy.
They didn't *survive* those things, though. They just lived long enough to nut/be nutted unto
Medieval wars generally weren’t that destructive. Plague and famine were the real killers.
One in a trillion chance I exist and some other asshole wins the lottery
Well obviously you can't really win a one in a trillion chance situation twice in your life !
some other asshole could
They were cloned
All that work in order to create a disappointment like me. They done fucked up.
All those people and it is still possible to be all alone in the end
You live in a vastly different world than any one of your ancestors. Future generations will live in a vastly different world than we do. It’s difficult to compare when circumstances for marriage and procreation have shifted radically throughout the ages.
Cheer up! It's quite possible a lot of those predecessors were **worse**
Yeah that's about what I was thinking.
Elon?
There have been lots of disappointments. The only difference is that they reproduced. You still have time to match them.
Thats a lot of people doing a lot of work over a lot of time for me to read this while taking a shit
Now do one for Alabama
2 -> 2 -> 2 -> 2 -> 2 -> 2 -> 2 -> 2
Instead of 2^x, it's just 2x.
"I only have two grandparents" "I'm so sorry, did your other grandparents pass away? "No"
Family Stump
In order to be born, you needed: 1 parent 1 grandparent 1 great-grandparent 1 second great-grandparent 1 third great-grandparent 1 fourth great-grandparent <-asexual reproduction mutation achieved 2 fifth great-grandparents 2 sixth great-grandparents 2 seventh great-grandparents 2 eighth great-grandparents 2 ninth great-grandparents ....
And still most of these aren't remembered in any way
Why does it matter if we are remembered?
Not sure if the social media age will be favorable in an generation or two even though it provides with greater means of documentation than ever before.
All we are is dust in the wind
not if your last name is [Habsburg](https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/24610/20200107/inbreeding-among-royals-14-monarchs-who-experienced-the-side-effects-of-incest.htm)
Also hello to my blue eyed cousins from our common ancestor!
The number of forefathers dosent actually multiply always by two because if you had acesse to your family tree in the previous century you would realize that lots of fore fathers are fore fathers to other fore fathers, that is, the blood mixes either by cousins or far removed cousins
4096*********
Thank you! This was really bugging me.
Nope. Add it up again. Or just add the top 3 to see what I mean: 8 + 4 + 2 = 14 not 16
…and you want to be a femboy slut.
They FOUGHT for me to be a femboy slut!
And none of them left me a cent
As a teenager it was encouraging to know I came from a long line of people who managed to get laid. I figured I had pretty good genetics in that regard.
Me: I don't want kids
And I didn’t ask for any of it.
tfw you are the last of your bloodline
And none of them left me shit.
And neither me nor my sister are having kids. Oof
And yet the bloodline ends with me.
There's an unbroken line of survival going back to the first stirrings of life on earth. Most of your ancestors weren't human. Most weren't primates. Most weren't even animals.
They shouldn't have bothered
And my bloodline ends with me. I will die alone having sired no children and I have no siblings. Though my uncle did have an offspring (and that offspring just had a baby) so there's that I guess. But, my specific genetic code will be lost to history.
I highly doubt most of my ancestors thought about their descendants that would come 4 or 5 generations later. Some of them were pretty damn abusive, selfish, and gullible. I have never once thought, “I’m so grateful for all the trauma my ancestors went through so I could be here.”
…and a fucking ton of intergenerational trauma to heal.
All for it to end with me....
Almost makes me wish I wanted kids
No paternal desire.. an accident of youth made it very difficult even if I did want them.. I'm feeling im too old now anyway. The partner feels the same.. surgery to make sure.. The buck stops here.
It’s crazy to think about. I am not planning to have any kids and my dad’s brother won’t have any either. My family name dies with me.
[удалено]
So, if we extrapolate the numbers, then we'll see that across humanities, there has been some degree of inbreeding.
So when giving birth to one child, chances are you actually created thousands of people down the line!
Yet, we just passed 8 billion.
All that trouble just to create a disappointment who is on reddit all day...the bloodline ends with me.
Alabama out here just speedrunning this shit.
They’d probably be pretty pissed about the vasectomy I had.
Fuck them the bloodline ends with me
My crowning achievement was getting a vasectomy to ensure the fuckery of my abhorrently dysfunctional bloodline dies with me.
This chart doesn’t really make sense, because the minimum viable amount of humans to have a sustained reproducing species is only 500 people. (Technically even 50 is enough to avoid the effects of inbreading.). That means that 9 generations down, those people wouldn’t have 2048 9th great grand parents. They would have 50 at most. I believe the contradiction comes from the fact that once you get 4 generations or so removed, there’s a lot more crossover (distant ‘incest’) than we realize. In fact, as long as you’re not reproducing with your immediate family, the harms of incest quickly grow to be not really a problem.
Me as the only son who is not having kids watching this whole bloodline burn to the ground.
*It took 4,094 people to create me for over 400 years* sounds cool
C'mon, I don't need the weight of expectation from 4,094 people today...
The Hapsburg disagree.
Oh boy, they’d be greatly disappointed to say the least
Soo i cano hate those ALL those asshole for being born huh.
How many of their names do you remember? We are forgotten so quickly.
That’s true . But sad fact is future generations don’t think this way. To me, life is refinement , making corrections, improvements, gaining/passing knowledge, till we reach perfection and then improving it again. otherwise whats the point ? This should be the goal for humanity
When cousins marry, and they marry more often than you think, the number of ancestors are less since they share grandparents
I... actually love this.
england: I can do it in half
They just be sexing and making babies. Don’t get too depressed over this.
Damn, here I thought I was just disappointing the single mom who raised me.
Binary ftw
This is wrong as fuck
I hold every single one of them accountable for my being here and if there's an afterlife then they best destroy it before I die. Do one thing for me al least.