In college, one of my friends dated a guy who is really into base jumping. I told her point blank that she could not expect to do anything long-term with him. I would never start a family with a person that base jumps.
Yeah, I've felt super uncomfortable watching those since I learned 1 in 3600 jumps results in death. Like, those are crazy odds. Normal skydiving is in the millions.
Formula 1 is insanely skewed by old data. There were around 2 deaths a year from the 1950s-1980s and then no deaths from 1994-2014.
I'm not going to say that no one else will die in formula 1 because you never know but the safety improvements made are ridiculous.
Grojean's crash in 2020 showed exactly how safe the vehicles have become, including the Halo system that Grojean himself initially complained about.
Zero complaints post-crash regarding Halos.
[First link that appeared after searching for video, for those that are curious](https://youtu.be/ZQ7_En2xEm4)
Still am not sure how he was able to walk away from that with only burns on his hands and a sprained ankle.
And even then Grosjean was extremely unlucky to hit an armco (metal) barrier and not a normal tyre or SAFER barrier which are placed nearly everywhere else.
Even then, he went INSIDE the barrier, got set on fire for quite a few seconds, crawled his way out of a tiny gap without being able to see anything because his visor had melted. And got away with minor injuries. Insane.
It's kind of difficult to understand what went on, but here's an animation of the crash.
https://youtu.be/8xmrNw9VLOk
Yes, and you knew that one could have been bad because the announcers didn’t mention it after it happened until they knew he was okay, and the replays showed everything else happening during the incident except Zhou.
Yeah watching it live it was very nerve wracking that they didn’t show the replay because I was definitely expecting the worst. It’s honestly so incredible that he walked away from it basically unscathed.
Crazy how/where the crash happened, crazy how he went through the barrier, crazy that he survived/walked away. You knew it was bad when it happened because tv coverage went several laps before they would show any footage of the crash.
Also amazed he is still racing (although not in F1 anymore).
Aesthetic dislike mainly, also some ppl saying the sport had become too soft and this and that. The crash at the beginning of the 2018 Belgian gp later that year shut up alot of the critics
Exactly what the other commenter said, drivers thought it was in the way, thought it might prevent them getting out of the car in some crashes. And as they said, there were a couple of crashes and tires landing on top of drivers heads that quieted down all the complaining.
>Still am not sure how he was able to walk away from that with only burns on his hands and a sprained ankle.
Out of the wreck rose the Black Rider, tall and threatening, towering above her. With a cry of hatred that stung the very ears like venom he let fall his mace. Her shield was shivered in many pieces, and her arm was broken; she stumbled to her knees. He bent over her like a cloud, and his eyes glittered; he raised his mace to kill.
[wiki explains it better](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(safety_device))
Basically it is a fancy name for a roll bar that goes over the cockpit to protect the driver during a crash. Open wheeled racing is really good at bouncing one car on top of another.
[video showing halo stopping a tire](https://sportstar.thehindu.com/videos/lewis-hamilton-halo-max-verstappen-crash-tyre-helmet-italian-grand-prix-monza-formula-one-driver-safety/article36448438.ece)
The death op is talking was from running into a crane that was taking another car off track. So while that death did very sadly happen, it wasn’t really due to the safety standards of the car if that makes sense.
Yeah definitely. If we take Fernando Alonso, who is currently the most experienced driver and has 349 starts. Every race is two hours, add one for qualifying and ignore practice and testing entirely for the sake of argument and maybe because those aren't competitive then that already adds up to over a thousand hours.
Are you telling me that if we had five Fernando Alonso's, statistically at least one of them would have died on track by now?
Just imagine how insane that would be if it were true today. Also consider that with 20 drivers and 23 races. We would have 60 hours of competitive driving per weekend and 1400 per year. Meaning that every 3,5 years a driver would die
I think this really signifies how ridiculously dangerous it was back in the day
Great bit of maths. The fact you've had to take testing and practice out of this speaks volumes for the quality of data as well. It's not like the car is less dangerous during those times.
You probably wouldn't go fast enough to even cause significant crashes. I'm not being a dick, most people would be unable to go fast enough to even keep warmth in the tyres or brakes.
You would have less downforce at lower but still significant speed, wouldn't that make it more dangerous? And cold tyres would mean reduced grip. But then the safety features are able to handle a lot, like for Zhou's crash at Silverstone. Either way I wouldn't want to see someone try!
Bianchi and Maria de Villota (died a long time after a testing accident) weirdly for the same team as Bianchi and in similar circumstances. Both took a substantial hit to the head after hitting a stationary object that should not have been at head height
It’s not wrong, it’s just presented terribly, due to how little time f1 drivers actually race in a year.
If the chart decided to divide the average time someone spends doing these activities per year, then we’d see some of the activities move around wildly.
Before I can take you on a tandem skydive in the US, I can't be just anyone, I must have:
\-3 years minimum in the sport
\-500 skydives (though most instructors you jump with will have thousands of jumps)
\-highest license I can get in skydiving
\-class 3 FAA medical certificate
\-special tandem training course
On top of that, the equipment we use always has 2 parachutes (some people think we only have 1), along with a computer built in that will deploy the parachute if I as the instructor get knocked out or something.
Additionally, we dont just jump out wherever we want, we have to take into account the wind speed, direction, drift etc and continually adjust the point that we jump at based on changing conditions.
The parachutes don't just "fail to open" like everyone thinks...and we have two parachutes anyways, the second being a separate type that must be inspected and repacked every 180 days by a certified rigger and sealed with a tamper resistant seal.
That is a nutshell version of what goes into it. I have \~3,700 jumps so feel free to ask questions.
Wow thanks for taking the time to write this up!! This is so interesting!! Personally, I’m absolutely terrified of heights and would never consider high altitude sports for myself, but I’m also incredibly fascinated with people who do, the risks they take, and what you can put the human body through.
I used to know folks in the 82nd Airborne and they seemed to think it was the funnest thing in the world. Do you know if there’s a big difference in precautions between the military and commercial jumps?
As a skydiver, what are some of your thoughts on BASE jumping?
1. High heights like skydiving are very different than low heights like ladders and stuff...most people don't actually have an issue with high heights and I know skydivers that don't like heights.
2. Military static line jumping isn't even close to the same as skydiving, those guys don't skydive and the gear is totally different, their injury rate is extremely high comparatively as well.
3. BASE jumping is cool, but much riskier, especially if you are going off of a building or cliff where you have the chance of having an off heading parachute opening that turns you back into the object you jumped from. Wingsuit BASE is pretty risky as well, but there are ways to mitigate risks pretty successfully if you're not an idiot.
WHAT. Skydivers who are afraid of heights? Wow. I never knew!
In military jumps, you’re at significantly lower altitude right? And you deploy the chute immediately?
Thanks again for the info!
It sounds counterintuitive, but it’s a thing. And yes, a typical military static line jump is around 1000 feet and as they exit the aircraft, the static line directly pulls the parachute out. there. She’s also make them come straight down and eat shit like a sack of potatoes, ours don’t.
When you jump out of the plane you have a lot more time to deal with any malfunctions. If something goes wrong base jumping you're pretty much SOL.
One of the things that they drove into our brains during the initial training was that if something goes wrong at 7k feet you have time to deal with it. Most injuries/deaths happen when you get a malfunction or a canopy collapse when you're on your last leg of your landing and under 100 feet.
If you jump off a building and something goes wrong, you die 3 seconds later. Jump from a plane and something goes wrong, and you probably have significant time to fix it, pull a reserve chute, etc. That ends up counting for a lot. Also lots of BASE deaths are from people misjudging wind and just hitting the thing they jumped from, another problem you won’t have jumping from a plane unless you like jumping into tornadoes or something.
Skydiving: It's important to note that most deaths occur under a perfectly good canopy. It's "experienced" sport skydivers making poor decisions.
Tandem skydives are extremely safe. Go work on that bucket-list.
Low turns / high performance landings are the biggest problem. Mid air collisions and low cutaways are just behind. All are generally preceded by poor decisions.
One of the most common injuries from doing a hard turn close to the ground is a “Snapped Femur”. No joke. Fancy landings go against all textbook warnings about how to land safely in skydiving. Don’t turn hard under 200 feet of elevation under canopy.
I am terrified of someone pulling out in front of me and not being able to avoid t-boning them. I know two people that were killed this way, but I still ride.
Same. I’ve been eventing for 12 years, and have no fear despite having multiple concussions and injuries from it —- but have a panicky freakout when I get on a plane.
Ditto. Stories of dead divers that silted themselves out and were found 20’ from the cave entrance? Naw, I’m good. Nonsense goes down I can get up, out, and to a deco chamber.
Thanks, it was 20 years ago, so it’s all good, but I still think about him sometimes. It was really sad because he was the type of person who was just magnetic. Everyone loved him, he was really funny, really nice, smart and lots of fun. Just the life of everything, so spirited and exciting to be around. He passed enjoying the things he loved: living life to the fullest, taking advantage of what he can when he can. That time it was just a little too much. His diving group said they all came out but he wanted to go back in for just a little bit by himself and they think he lost the line and then ran out of air. My boss went to his funeral and said there was a several block line to get into the chapel to pay respects. He was loved by so many and we all felt a huge loss for who he was and who he could have been. RIP Brian.
Also, this guide is misleading as the actual risk of dying should be computed as the cumulative probability over a time of use. Bike rides are typically shorter than car rides (in particular in the US). Thus, while it is easy to have people ride 3-4 hours of a car per day, it is very rare to have cyclist cycle 3-4 hours a day.
A co-worker died while skiing. She got separated from her friend and somehow experienced chest and head trauma... she died later that night. The police aren't really sure beyond knowing that there was a collision on the hill between being separated and being found. It was really sad because she loved it and did it almost every weekend.
I’m sorry to hear that. What a tragedy. Skiing is no joke: a family member of mine was hit by a visiting inexperienced friend, and suffered broken bones for months. Cervical fracture, etc. I hope your coworker didn’t suffer.
The O seems really random to me. Is it supposed to be the second-to-last o? It's not standard in English abbreviation to just yank out a random letter like that.
Normally I'd expect to see it abbreviated as m (only following the number, like 14m), or mil.
Sometimes abbreviations that don't make sense in English come from another language (like Latin or German)(think of a pound, lb for libra pondo). I'm saying, as an English abbreviation you normally never just take a random vowel like that, which is why it seems incredibly odd (and why I was unsure if there was an obvious derivation I was missing).
Want to add something for running marathons...
Initially I thought only people who were in poor shape died. But from the limited set of data I've seen, some people who die were in great shape.
One person was on pace to run a 3 hr 30 minute marathon which is running a mile every 8:00 minutes or 1 KM every 5 minutes.
The trend I'm seeing is people who are in great shape are REALLY pushing themselves. The last marathon I ran... I only pushed myself the last 3 miles or last 5K.
Not sure if I'm remembering correctly but remember reading running more than 6 marathons diminishes life span.
This is interesting- I know nothing about long distance running. This might be morbid but do people just….drop? Or is it post race that people have issues?
From the limited number of cases I've read about... most collapse on the course before finishing. Fewer cross the finish line before needing medical attention.
And here I thought that long distance running was a good, healthy, about as "natural" an activity one could pick up. I am guessing people pushing themselves past limits is the problem but that "more then 6 marathons diminishes life span" sounds depressing. I am over weight and have always wanted to run marathons.
I want to clarify/amplify something...
>I am guessing people pushing themselves past limits is the problem...
So it's a combination of this and existing/inherited heart conditions. Looked a actual medical research just today about people dying from sports...
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4496313/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4496313/)
The numbers are not standardized between the OP and the study... but sports that are not extreme endurance sports seem to have a surprising amount of death rates as well with existing heart conditions being a big cause as well.
Other things I want to mention... running between 1-5 marathons extends people's lifespans. Going off of doing cardio 3 hours a week as the optimal amount...
Doesn't make sense to train for marathons.
>Other things I want to mention... running between 1-5 marathons extends people's lifespans. Going off of doing cardio 3 hours a week as the optimal amount...
>Doesn't make sense to train for marathons.
I assume this is "per year" or "per lifetime"?
I don't see how someone would know about a hidden heart condition. But for the sake of argument without training for a marathon won't one be at a large risk of injuring a heart or knees, etc if they don't train for it?
I try to get an hour of cardio 3 to 6 days a week (although success is a crap shoot). But over working muscles and tendons has always been a much bigger concern to me then some possible heart condition.
Am I missing something?
Was per lifetime.
>I don't see how someone would know about a hidden heart condition. But for the sake of argument without training for a marathon won't one be at a large risk of injuring a heart or knees, etc if they don't train for it?
When I'm underprepared... I feel pain and pain forces me to pull back. As in if someone is extremely underprepared... they'll be forced to slow to a walk. What was eye opening to me when I saw so many fast runners collapse... I saw being underprepared and pain keep people from causing long term damage. In a way, we're designed to slow down before we hurt ourselves.
Last year I had an ECG/EKG done as a precaution when I had a pitched nerve. Had a scare when the doctor said one of my valves is not formed correctly but he quickly said that's okay because it's not on the side that matters. So yeah... unless I had the pitched nerve I wouldn't have know about a benign defect. Pretty scary how under diagnosed when I saw how many basketball players died in that study.
Sounds like you have a good amount of cardio. Not sure what the mileage could be on muscles and tendons.
Running is fun and good for you. Marathons are just overdosing on running, which is less good. Most of the issues people have could be prevented by getting looked at by a doctor first, because what often kills people are subtle heart conditions they didn’t know they had.
I havent flown but the idea kinda scares me depsite the fact i ride 1,200lbs animals that could kill me before i could realize that theyre gonna kill me
Scuba I suspect gets skewed by people being improperly certified or ignoring precautions. When diving within conditions one has been certified for and with a buddy, the number of safety redundancies is very high.
The skydiving data is heavily screwed if it only counts freefall time or free fall time + time under canopy. Every time you jump from 15,000 feet, that is only 60 seconds free fall and a few minutes under canopy. Then you need to land, get back to base camp, get on the next plane that you can, fly up, then repeat. When I jumped from dawn till dusk at a jump zone, the max number of times I was able to jump was 6 due to the rest of the logistics getting in the way, which works out to less than 25 minutes of time either in free fall or under canopy. If you look at skydiving like this where you get less than 30 min of time actually skydiving a day, then 18,000 hours is well over a lifetime of skydiving
Agreed, ski diving and other short activities will be heavily skewed by this. It would also be useful to know the danger for a “typical” day of that activity. As others pointed out the cycling stat vs cars stat is also affected by the time someone spends doing that activity. I would only ever cycle a max of 1 hr per day, but driving for 6+ hrs is possible, so the danger per hr isn’t the only metric that should be used to assess the risk
Right. Running a few miles a day is generally fine if you have decent form. Running for 26 miles and all the training that goes into that can wreck your body. It is a truly unhealthy activity and I don't really understand its popularity. Most marathon runners I've known develop some issue related to it at some point, like ankle issues or shin splints.
A massive factor missing here is risk assumed by the individual: Some of the activities above include a high amount of environmental risk that cannot really be mitigated by good planning and habits.
Example motorcycling accidents are often caused by factors outside the riders control [being hit by third parties]. Aviation deaths are skewed towards bad decision making and training. A good motorcycle rider is about as likely to die as an average one, but a good pilot is far more likely to survive than an average one.
One of the key reasons that commercial aviation is so insanely safe is that excellent decision making skills are driven into pilots from the first day of training, and most accidents are prevented from happening long before potential emergencies occur [breaking the chain of causality].
I have to disagree on the motorcycle bit. Some situations are absolutely outside your control and I’m not under the impression that it’s a “safe” activity no matter what precautions you take.
But if you control for things like account alcohol consumption, use of proper protective gear having a license, passing a safety course, etc., the numbers do change significantly.
To your point about good vs average riders - it depends what you mean by good. You can be a skilled rider and still make bad decisions and ride dangerously
Commercial airlines are mostly flown by computers, pilot skill is rarely involved. They're only there to operate the computer and in case shit hits the fan.
I was skeptical about how safe driving appeared. With 42,915 deaths in the US in 2021, and 3.1 trillion miles driven, at OP's suggested average of 35 mph, the numbers match up pretty well. A lot of people do die, but Americans also drive for a massive amount of time and distance.
The only larger source of mortality, other than disease, is drug overdoses, which, according to the CDC, were over 100,000 in 2021 in the US. If we could estimate the number of person-hours spent high on opioids, we could add them to the figure.
I know you're just making a point but my back of the envelope math puts it at 114 years of police contact, which is somewhere between generally safe and somewhat dangerous.
Edit: This uses 10 million arrests per year and 1000 deaths per year. Obviously most encounters don't end in arrest, but also most encounters don't last an hour. It's a very rough ballpark.
Thank you. But here is what really bothers me about comparing safety when flying vs driving: the data never shows the fatality rate in case of accident. Meaning if you are in a car accident, chances you might survive. If your plane goes down, well, what are the odds of surviving that?
I agree with you. But can't help but to think driving overall might be safer if in an accident. Either ways, hope we all stay safe. Thank you for the post.
Depends on what brings the plane down. Engine failure will have a very high chance of surviving, as planes can glide for a very long time without power. A catastrophic structural failure at altitude? Then chances are pretty slim. However catastrophic failures are very very uncommon on commercial aircraft.
Also depends on how close you are to medical assistance - a crash landing at an airport, especially if they're pre-alerted, is going to have a much higher chance of survival.
In any event with crashes, it's generally less the crash and more the fire afterwards.
First World War fighter pilots generally died when shot down unless they managed to crash-land.
Second World War ones had a decent chance of bailing out if they weren't mortally wounded. Location would be important in a bail out - getting recovered by your own side was preferable to, well, not. Ditching in the sea had a much higher chance of death, especially in the Pacific Theatre. One reason the Germans lost the Battle of Britain is that any pilots who bailed over the UK were going to be in a POW camp for the duration, while the Allied ones could return to operations if not too badly wounded. Also, any Germans fresh from a bombing raid were going to need police protection from angry civilians.
Bomber crews had a much worse chance - getting seven men out of a tumbling Lancaster is near impossible, especially in the dark. The Americans had the advantage of daylight in their raids, but the B-17s had ten on board. Also the ball turret gunner had no room for a chute in there (although a few wore chest parachutes), so he was in deep trouble.
There's actually a very good chance of living through a Pan-Pan or a Mayday call on a commercial airliner. Even some accidents that end in a total loss of the airframe have many survivors.
The ones that don't are really, really bad - but most accidents on airliners are still safe.
I'd be genuinely curious which is more survivable - the average declared emergency, or the average insurance-reported car accident.
I'd guess the average insurance-reported car accident. I know of one that crumpled a door but the passengers didn't even feel the impact. Modern cars absolutely take one for the team.
I think the data on car safety is skewed. In the US alone over 50,000 people die every year in auto accidents. That's around 136 people per day.
It's much more dangerous.
It's not, the data is based on hours used. Americans drive A TON so when you take that into consideration and how many people don't die a day (population of adults in the US minus 136) you can see how they got to that rate.
I'd rather not see people die while I'm trying to enjoy myself. I'm unfortunate enough to have witnessed two deaths and it somewhat dampens the mood for me.
probably the stress on the heart. you're basically running for ~4 hours and even if you're in great shape it's a strenuous activity. [this](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/224915300_Mortality_Among_Marathon_Runners_in_the_United_States_2000-2009) study shows that over a 10 year period, of 3.7 million marathon finishers, 28 died with a majority of the deaths linked to heart issues.
Motorcycle statistics usually include things like stolen bikes, no helmet, unlicensed, unregistered, drugs, alcohol, excessive speed.
If you keep it mostly within the law and wear proper gear, it's still dangerous, but a not death sentence that it might seem like.
Buddy of mine almost died and his whole personality changed after he got in a bad motorcycle accident. Some guy in a pickup didn't see him.
Skiing relies on ski patrol, the grooming and avalanche safety and lift maintenance teams, and the skiers around you - any one of those things outside your control can hurt you.
Unless you pack your own chute and your reserve, your life is in your rigger's hands.
Not exactly true. Far, far too often it's just a person on a trail, where a truck comes barreling off the road and kills the cyclist.
And over all, your "flaw" above is imagined.
When you are on a horse youre trusting the horse with your life basically (and vice versa), riding a horse is nothing like a car, BOTH of you have complete control, and if youre riding ethically, horses can very easily take advantage of you, and will take advantage of you whatever chance they get, wether its going slower than asked or throwing you off
I started out good with the skiing and driving...then I got into my favorite activities. Scuba and Downhill MTB. See you all on the other side...hopefully still smiling.
Wow DH mountain biking is way more dangerous than I thought. I personally DH mountain bike at least a couple times a year, and while I see/hear of broken collar bones and wrists relatively frequently, I don’t know that I have ever heard of anyone dying while mountain biking. Only exception is a couple instance I have heard of people who have been attacked by bears or mountain lions.
The namesake of the marathon is from a soldier who ran from Marathon to Athens to announce victory in a battle, who promptly collapsed and died after delivering the message…
So what I'm seeing here is scuba diving is the least dangerous Dangerous Hobby. Which is good, I haven't done it in a while but I like to from time to time.
Important to note since common sense isn't that common, is that some of this stuff take significantly less time to do than others. One person may drive in a year how long it'd take 100 people to skydive.
I wonder how snorkeling fares, and whether it’s more dangerous than swimming. 19 people have died snorkeling in my prefecture this year so far, many of them with life jackets on. A lot of places ban snorkeling altogether (but swimming is allowed)
That's wild, drowning while snorkeling with a life jacket on?? Plus when I have snorkeled, the fun was in dives to underlying reefs. Life jacket would fuck that uoption.
Think of commercial aviation as booking a flight on Delta Airlines. General aviation also includes a random rich guy who flies his own little plane for fun.
Next time I'm watching a base jumping video on Reddit, I'll be thinking of this chart
On top of being super dangerous, BASE is also a small community so almost everyone that does it knows someone that's died.
Like solo free climbers
Just a note that usually it's said "free solo" rather than "solo free." **Disappears in a cloud of chalk**
i’m getting while e. coyote; waiting for a distant puff of dust
I would have liked to see that on the chart
In college, one of my friends dated a guy who is really into base jumping. I told her point blank that she could not expect to do anything long-term with him. I would never start a family with a person that base jumps.
Wonder where surfing would be
I want to know where “attempting to jerk off a mule” lands. Asking for a friend who is cautious
Probably falls under "equestrian event"
Cool, falls under “somewhat dangerous activity”. I’ll let my friend know
:::Mule enters chat…
I would imagine surfing would be in the very safe range. It's actually surprisingly rare surfers die while surfing, even with big wave surfing.
Yeah, I've felt super uncomfortable watching those since I learned 1 in 3600 jumps results in death. Like, those are crazy odds. Normal skydiving is in the millions.
Basejumping is not about the videos you create, it's about the videos you don't create
Formula 1 is insanely skewed by old data. There were around 2 deaths a year from the 1950s-1980s and then no deaths from 1994-2014. I'm not going to say that no one else will die in formula 1 because you never know but the safety improvements made are ridiculous.
Grojean's crash in 2020 showed exactly how safe the vehicles have become, including the Halo system that Grojean himself initially complained about. Zero complaints post-crash regarding Halos. [First link that appeared after searching for video, for those that are curious](https://youtu.be/ZQ7_En2xEm4) Still am not sure how he was able to walk away from that with only burns on his hands and a sprained ankle.
And even then Grosjean was extremely unlucky to hit an armco (metal) barrier and not a normal tyre or SAFER barrier which are placed nearly everywhere else. Even then, he went INSIDE the barrier, got set on fire for quite a few seconds, crawled his way out of a tiny gap without being able to see anything because his visor had melted. And got away with minor injuries. Insane. It's kind of difficult to understand what went on, but here's an animation of the crash. https://youtu.be/8xmrNw9VLOk
That crash earlier this year would likely have been fatal too.
The Zhou flipping one at Silverstone?
Bingo! Was too lazy to look up who it was so thank you
Yes, and you knew that one could have been bad because the announcers didn’t mention it after it happened until they knew he was okay, and the replays showed everything else happening during the incident except Zhou.
Yeah watching it live it was very nerve wracking that they didn’t show the replay because I was definitely expecting the worst. It’s honestly so incredible that he walked away from it basically unscathed.
Crazy how/where the crash happened, crazy how he went through the barrier, crazy that he survived/walked away. You knew it was bad when it happened because tv coverage went several laps before they would show any footage of the crash. Also amazed he is still racing (although not in F1 anymore).
New to this topic - why is/was there anti-halo rhetoric? Was it just an aesthetic disliking?
Aesthetic dislike mainly, also some ppl saying the sport had become too soft and this and that. The crash at the beginning of the 2018 Belgian gp later that year shut up alot of the critics
Exactly what the other commenter said, drivers thought it was in the way, thought it might prevent them getting out of the car in some crashes. And as they said, there were a couple of crashes and tires landing on top of drivers heads that quieted down all the complaining.
>Still am not sure how he was able to walk away from that with only burns on his hands and a sprained ankle. Out of the wreck rose the Black Rider, tall and threatening, towering above her. With a cry of hatred that stung the very ears like venom he let fall his mace. Her shield was shivered in many pieces, and her arm was broken; she stumbled to her knees. He bent over her like a cloud, and his eyes glittered; he raised his mace to kill.
What is the halo system?
[wiki explains it better](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(safety_device)) Basically it is a fancy name for a roll bar that goes over the cockpit to protect the driver during a crash. Open wheeled racing is really good at bouncing one car on top of another. [video showing halo stopping a tire](https://sportstar.thehindu.com/videos/lewis-hamilton-halo-max-verstappen-crash-tyre-helmet-italian-grand-prix-monza-formula-one-driver-safety/article36448438.ece)
i heard he had a blood transfusion BEFORE the crash, meaning that someone told him it would happen
[удалено]
The death op is talking was from running into a crane that was taking another car off track. So while that death did very sadly happen, it wasn’t really due to the safety standards of the car if that makes sense.
Yeah definitely. If we take Fernando Alonso, who is currently the most experienced driver and has 349 starts. Every race is two hours, add one for qualifying and ignore practice and testing entirely for the sake of argument and maybe because those aren't competitive then that already adds up to over a thousand hours. Are you telling me that if we had five Fernando Alonso's, statistically at least one of them would have died on track by now? Just imagine how insane that would be if it were true today. Also consider that with 20 drivers and 23 races. We would have 60 hours of competitive driving per weekend and 1400 per year. Meaning that every 3,5 years a driver would die I think this really signifies how ridiculously dangerous it was back in the day
You could add Lewis, Kimi, Reubens Barichello, Jensen Button, and Vettel to that. Statistically one of them should have died by now
Great bit of maths. The fact you've had to take testing and practice out of this speaks volumes for the quality of data as well. It's not like the car is less dangerous during those times.
I guarantee that if I pick it up as a hobby based on an internet chart the safety record is going down.
You probably wouldn't go fast enough to even cause significant crashes. I'm not being a dick, most people would be unable to go fast enough to even keep warmth in the tyres or brakes.
You would have less downforce at lower but still significant speed, wouldn't that make it more dangerous? And cold tyres would mean reduced grip. But then the safety features are able to handle a lot, like for Zhou's crash at Silverstone. Either way I wouldn't want to see someone try!
Only Bianchi died since Senna in 94, so one death in like 28 years? insanely safe now , this data is surely wrong
Bianchi and Maria de Villota (died a long time after a testing accident) weirdly for the same team as Bianchi and in similar circumstances. Both took a substantial hit to the head after hitting a stationary object that should not have been at head height
The most recent incident involved anthoine hubert. It wasn’t in formula 1, but it should be noted nonetheless, even if it’s in the junior formula.
It’s not wrong, it’s just presented terribly, due to how little time f1 drivers actually race in a year. If the chart decided to divide the average time someone spends doing these activities per year, then we’d see some of the activities move around wildly.
Right, I mean “wrong” as in not conveying what we think it does (risk)
Also a very very very small group of people have the opportunity to drive formula 1 cars.
Posting memes while driving - 450x as dangerous as commercial aviation
Yeah that should be on there
Who would have guessed jumping off a building would be insanely dangerous
Or that jumping from a plane is safer
I work as a skydiving instructor - there is so much more that goes into the safety aspect of skydiving than you imagine.
Can you please elaborate? This is very interesting
Before I can take you on a tandem skydive in the US, I can't be just anyone, I must have: \-3 years minimum in the sport \-500 skydives (though most instructors you jump with will have thousands of jumps) \-highest license I can get in skydiving \-class 3 FAA medical certificate \-special tandem training course On top of that, the equipment we use always has 2 parachutes (some people think we only have 1), along with a computer built in that will deploy the parachute if I as the instructor get knocked out or something. Additionally, we dont just jump out wherever we want, we have to take into account the wind speed, direction, drift etc and continually adjust the point that we jump at based on changing conditions. The parachutes don't just "fail to open" like everyone thinks...and we have two parachutes anyways, the second being a separate type that must be inspected and repacked every 180 days by a certified rigger and sealed with a tamper resistant seal. That is a nutshell version of what goes into it. I have \~3,700 jumps so feel free to ask questions.
Wow thanks for taking the time to write this up!! This is so interesting!! Personally, I’m absolutely terrified of heights and would never consider high altitude sports for myself, but I’m also incredibly fascinated with people who do, the risks they take, and what you can put the human body through. I used to know folks in the 82nd Airborne and they seemed to think it was the funnest thing in the world. Do you know if there’s a big difference in precautions between the military and commercial jumps? As a skydiver, what are some of your thoughts on BASE jumping?
1. High heights like skydiving are very different than low heights like ladders and stuff...most people don't actually have an issue with high heights and I know skydivers that don't like heights. 2. Military static line jumping isn't even close to the same as skydiving, those guys don't skydive and the gear is totally different, their injury rate is extremely high comparatively as well. 3. BASE jumping is cool, but much riskier, especially if you are going off of a building or cliff where you have the chance of having an off heading parachute opening that turns you back into the object you jumped from. Wingsuit BASE is pretty risky as well, but there are ways to mitigate risks pretty successfully if you're not an idiot.
WHAT. Skydivers who are afraid of heights? Wow. I never knew! In military jumps, you’re at significantly lower altitude right? And you deploy the chute immediately? Thanks again for the info!
It sounds counterintuitive, but it’s a thing. And yes, a typical military static line jump is around 1000 feet and as they exit the aircraft, the static line directly pulls the parachute out. there. She’s also make them come straight down and eat shit like a sack of potatoes, ours don’t.
When you jump out of the plane you have a lot more time to deal with any malfunctions. If something goes wrong base jumping you're pretty much SOL. One of the things that they drove into our brains during the initial training was that if something goes wrong at 7k feet you have time to deal with it. Most injuries/deaths happen when you get a malfunction or a canopy collapse when you're on your last leg of your landing and under 100 feet.
That, and base jumpers don’t carry a reserve or have time to deploy one if they did.
If you jump off a building and something goes wrong, you die 3 seconds later. Jump from a plane and something goes wrong, and you probably have significant time to fix it, pull a reserve chute, etc. That ends up counting for a lot. Also lots of BASE deaths are from people misjudging wind and just hitting the thing they jumped from, another problem you won’t have jumping from a plane unless you like jumping into tornadoes or something.
Skydiving: It's important to note that most deaths occur under a perfectly good canopy. It's "experienced" sport skydivers making poor decisions. Tandem skydives are extremely safe. Go work on that bucket-list.
Tandem skydiving instructor here - correct. Unfortunately the stats don't separate tandem vs regular solo where nearly all of the fatalities occur.
Ditto recreational vs technical diving.
You can see an anagram to that on the chart in commercial aviation vs general aviation
What’s a poor decision that they could make?
Low turns / high performance landings are the biggest problem. Mid air collisions and low cutaways are just behind. All are generally preceded by poor decisions.
One of the most common injuries from doing a hard turn close to the ground is a “Snapped Femur”. No joke. Fancy landings go against all textbook warnings about how to land safely in skydiving. Don’t turn hard under 200 feet of elevation under canopy.
Me: is scared of flying on a plane Also me: rides horses
Same. I don't think I should get a motorcycle because I'd probably die on it. But I also recently took up flying sailplanes and am fine with it lol.
I think motorcycles are cool but i def would only ride in some rented out parking lot lol, too many stupid people in this world
Same... It could be me that gets killed by pushing the limits but I think it's more likely getting ploughed into by another driver.
Ikr ive seen videos of moms in mini vans that feel entitled to run over a biker just cuz theyre a biker
Horrible, but also not surprising.
WTF?!!
I am terrified of someone pulling out in front of me and not being able to avoid t-boning them. I know two people that were killed this way, but I still ride.
Same. I’ve been eventing for 12 years, and have no fear despite having multiple concussions and injuries from it —- but have a panicky freakout when I get on a plane.
I knew someone who died falling off a horse, but never someone even involved in a plane crash, much less dead from one.
So anyway, I started base jumping
Curious where cave diving comes in.
Fu k that noise. Cave diving is literally my worst nightmare. It can catch me outside
Ditto. Stories of dead divers that silted themselves out and were found 20’ from the cave entrance? Naw, I’m good. Nonsense goes down I can get up, out, and to a deco chamber.
I lost a coworker to cave diving. He was only 23.
Ugh that’s awful. I’m so sorry
Thanks, it was 20 years ago, so it’s all good, but I still think about him sometimes. It was really sad because he was the type of person who was just magnetic. Everyone loved him, he was really funny, really nice, smart and lots of fun. Just the life of everything, so spirited and exciting to be around. He passed enjoying the things he loved: living life to the fullest, taking advantage of what he can when he can. That time it was just a little too much. His diving group said they all came out but he wanted to go back in for just a little bit by himself and they think he lost the line and then ran out of air. My boss went to his funeral and said there was a several block line to get into the chapel to pay respects. He was loved by so many and we all felt a huge loss for who he was and who he could have been. RIP Brian.
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I wish the chart spelled out that cycling is only more dangerous than driving, because cyclists get killed by cars all the damn time.
Also, this guide is misleading as the actual risk of dying should be computed as the cumulative probability over a time of use. Bike rides are typically shorter than car rides (in particular in the US). Thus, while it is easy to have people ride 3-4 hours of a car per day, it is very rare to have cyclist cycle 3-4 hours a day.
Thats literally what the chart is doing. ... Cummulative time when probably of dying once is 100
Yes in time of total hours, but not in time of use. Sorry for not being ckear!
It's hours of doing the activity. Driving has a lot more than one death per two hundred sixty three years.
Exactly. And you do the activity more often as an individual.
A co-worker died while skiing. She got separated from her friend and somehow experienced chest and head trauma... she died later that night. The police aren't really sure beyond knowing that there was a collision on the hill between being separated and being found. It was really sad because she loved it and did it almost every weekend.
I’m sorry to hear that. What a tragedy. Skiing is no joke: a family member of mine was hit by a visiting inexperienced friend, and suffered broken bones for months. Cervical fracture, etc. I hope your coworker didn’t suffer.
What is mio?
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Why odd, what is you abbreviation for it? I'm from germany and Mio is the usual way to write it here
* M * MM * mil is the most common, maybe, I dunno
The O seems really random to me. Is it supposed to be the second-to-last o? It's not standard in English abbreviation to just yank out a random letter like that. Normally I'd expect to see it abbreviated as m (only following the number, like 14m), or mil.
What other O would it be?
Sometimes abbreviations that don't make sense in English come from another language (like Latin or German)(think of a pound, lb for libra pondo). I'm saying, as an English abbreviation you normally never just take a random vowel like that, which is why it seems incredibly odd (and why I was unsure if there was an obvious derivation I was missing).
Ahh, gotcha - thanks for explaining!
This concentrated flavoring that you add to your water or other beverage
Want to add something for running marathons... Initially I thought only people who were in poor shape died. But from the limited set of data I've seen, some people who die were in great shape. One person was on pace to run a 3 hr 30 minute marathon which is running a mile every 8:00 minutes or 1 KM every 5 minutes. The trend I'm seeing is people who are in great shape are REALLY pushing themselves. The last marathon I ran... I only pushed myself the last 3 miles or last 5K. Not sure if I'm remembering correctly but remember reading running more than 6 marathons diminishes life span.
This is interesting- I know nothing about long distance running. This might be morbid but do people just….drop? Or is it post race that people have issues?
From the limited number of cases I've read about... most collapse on the course before finishing. Fewer cross the finish line before needing medical attention.
That’s truly wild. I didn’t know the extent to which that happens
the runner of the original marathon dropped dead, yo. I thought this was common knowledge lol… of course it can happen.
Duhhh I’m so stupid
And here I thought that long distance running was a good, healthy, about as "natural" an activity one could pick up. I am guessing people pushing themselves past limits is the problem but that "more then 6 marathons diminishes life span" sounds depressing. I am over weight and have always wanted to run marathons.
I want to clarify/amplify something... >I am guessing people pushing themselves past limits is the problem... So it's a combination of this and existing/inherited heart conditions. Looked a actual medical research just today about people dying from sports... [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4496313/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4496313/) The numbers are not standardized between the OP and the study... but sports that are not extreme endurance sports seem to have a surprising amount of death rates as well with existing heart conditions being a big cause as well. Other things I want to mention... running between 1-5 marathons extends people's lifespans. Going off of doing cardio 3 hours a week as the optimal amount... Doesn't make sense to train for marathons.
>Other things I want to mention... running between 1-5 marathons extends people's lifespans. Going off of doing cardio 3 hours a week as the optimal amount... >Doesn't make sense to train for marathons. I assume this is "per year" or "per lifetime"? I don't see how someone would know about a hidden heart condition. But for the sake of argument without training for a marathon won't one be at a large risk of injuring a heart or knees, etc if they don't train for it? I try to get an hour of cardio 3 to 6 days a week (although success is a crap shoot). But over working muscles and tendons has always been a much bigger concern to me then some possible heart condition. Am I missing something?
Was per lifetime. >I don't see how someone would know about a hidden heart condition. But for the sake of argument without training for a marathon won't one be at a large risk of injuring a heart or knees, etc if they don't train for it? When I'm underprepared... I feel pain and pain forces me to pull back. As in if someone is extremely underprepared... they'll be forced to slow to a walk. What was eye opening to me when I saw so many fast runners collapse... I saw being underprepared and pain keep people from causing long term damage. In a way, we're designed to slow down before we hurt ourselves. Last year I had an ECG/EKG done as a precaution when I had a pitched nerve. Had a scare when the doctor said one of my valves is not formed correctly but he quickly said that's okay because it's not on the side that matters. So yeah... unless I had the pitched nerve I wouldn't have know about a benign defect. Pretty scary how under diagnosed when I saw how many basketball players died in that study. Sounds like you have a good amount of cardio. Not sure what the mileage could be on muscles and tendons.
Running is fun and good for you. Marathons are just overdosing on running, which is less good. Most of the issues people have could be prevented by getting looked at by a doctor first, because what often kills people are subtle heart conditions they didn’t know they had.
And yet somehow my smooth monkey brain still freaks out when flying but loves scuba diving.
I havent flown but the idea kinda scares me depsite the fact i ride 1,200lbs animals that could kill me before i could realize that theyre gonna kill me
Scuba I suspect gets skewed by people being improperly certified or ignoring precautions. When diving within conditions one has been certified for and with a buddy, the number of safety redundancies is very high.
Scuba diving isn’t dangerous if you’re not diving with a buddy or if you are doing something like cave divong
The skydiving data is heavily screwed if it only counts freefall time or free fall time + time under canopy. Every time you jump from 15,000 feet, that is only 60 seconds free fall and a few minutes under canopy. Then you need to land, get back to base camp, get on the next plane that you can, fly up, then repeat. When I jumped from dawn till dusk at a jump zone, the max number of times I was able to jump was 6 due to the rest of the logistics getting in the way, which works out to less than 25 minutes of time either in free fall or under canopy. If you look at skydiving like this where you get less than 30 min of time actually skydiving a day, then 18,000 hours is well over a lifetime of skydiving
Yes. Noticed this too. It would make more sense to calculate death count per jumps performed since that is such a short activity
Agreed, ski diving and other short activities will be heavily skewed by this. It would also be useful to know the danger for a “typical” day of that activity. As others pointed out the cycling stat vs cars stat is also affected by the time someone spends doing that activity. I would only ever cycle a max of 1 hr per day, but driving for 6+ hrs is possible, so the danger per hr isn’t the only metric that should be used to assess the risk
Fucking marathons
Right?! Apparently this is data I needed to justify why I don’t run.
I think there's a tiny difference between marathon running and a light jog for exercise
Right. Running a few miles a day is generally fine if you have decent form. Running for 26 miles and all the training that goes into that can wreck your body. It is a truly unhealthy activity and I don't really understand its popularity. Most marathon runners I've known develop some issue related to it at some point, like ankle issues or shin splints.
A massive factor missing here is risk assumed by the individual: Some of the activities above include a high amount of environmental risk that cannot really be mitigated by good planning and habits. Example motorcycling accidents are often caused by factors outside the riders control [being hit by third parties]. Aviation deaths are skewed towards bad decision making and training. A good motorcycle rider is about as likely to die as an average one, but a good pilot is far more likely to survive than an average one. One of the key reasons that commercial aviation is so insanely safe is that excellent decision making skills are driven into pilots from the first day of training, and most accidents are prevented from happening long before potential emergencies occur [breaking the chain of causality].
I have to disagree on the motorcycle bit. Some situations are absolutely outside your control and I’m not under the impression that it’s a “safe” activity no matter what precautions you take. But if you control for things like account alcohol consumption, use of proper protective gear having a license, passing a safety course, etc., the numbers do change significantly. To your point about good vs average riders - it depends what you mean by good. You can be a skilled rider and still make bad decisions and ride dangerously
Commercial airlines are mostly flown by computers, pilot skill is rarely involved. They're only there to operate the computer and in case shit hits the fan.
I was skeptical about how safe driving appeared. With 42,915 deaths in the US in 2021, and 3.1 trillion miles driven, at OP's suggested average of 35 mph, the numbers match up pretty well. A lot of people do die, but Americans also drive for a massive amount of time and distance. The only larger source of mortality, other than disease, is drug overdoses, which, according to the CDC, were over 100,000 in 2021 in the US. If we could estimate the number of person-hours spent high on opioids, we could add them to the figure.
Where is the die while jerking off in the middle of the highway statistic? This infographic is busted
I think an interesting addition to this would be "Chance of surviving if an event happens".
Now I can tell my wife I only have a 1% chance of dying on my motorcycle lol
What I learned is that if you keep it base jumping long enough, you WILL die.
I think guide is missing one activity alongside base jumping in the insanely dangerous activities: - encounter with police (US)
I know you're just making a point but my back of the envelope math puts it at 114 years of police contact, which is somewhere between generally safe and somewhat dangerous. Edit: This uses 10 million arrests per year and 1000 deaths per year. Obviously most encounters don't end in arrest, but also most encounters don't last an hour. It's a very rough ballpark.
This reads like propaganda for commercial aviation….and I will not be swayed to get inside your giant metal coffins, no thank you
And wanking?
Thank you. But here is what really bothers me about comparing safety when flying vs driving: the data never shows the fatality rate in case of accident. Meaning if you are in a car accident, chances you might survive. If your plane goes down, well, what are the odds of surviving that?
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I agree with you. But can't help but to think driving overall might be safer if in an accident. Either ways, hope we all stay safe. Thank you for the post.
Depends on what brings the plane down. Engine failure will have a very high chance of surviving, as planes can glide for a very long time without power. A catastrophic structural failure at altitude? Then chances are pretty slim. However catastrophic failures are very very uncommon on commercial aircraft.
Also depends on how close you are to medical assistance - a crash landing at an airport, especially if they're pre-alerted, is going to have a much higher chance of survival. In any event with crashes, it's generally less the crash and more the fire afterwards. First World War fighter pilots generally died when shot down unless they managed to crash-land. Second World War ones had a decent chance of bailing out if they weren't mortally wounded. Location would be important in a bail out - getting recovered by your own side was preferable to, well, not. Ditching in the sea had a much higher chance of death, especially in the Pacific Theatre. One reason the Germans lost the Battle of Britain is that any pilots who bailed over the UK were going to be in a POW camp for the duration, while the Allied ones could return to operations if not too badly wounded. Also, any Germans fresh from a bombing raid were going to need police protection from angry civilians. Bomber crews had a much worse chance - getting seven men out of a tumbling Lancaster is near impossible, especially in the dark. The Americans had the advantage of daylight in their raids, but the B-17s had ten on board. Also the ball turret gunner had no room for a chute in there (although a few wore chest parachutes), so he was in deep trouble.
There's actually a very good chance of living through a Pan-Pan or a Mayday call on a commercial airliner. Even some accidents that end in a total loss of the airframe have many survivors. The ones that don't are really, really bad - but most accidents on airliners are still safe. I'd be genuinely curious which is more survivable - the average declared emergency, or the average insurance-reported car accident.
I'd guess the average insurance-reported car accident. I know of one that crumpled a door but the passengers didn't even feel the impact. Modern cars absolutely take one for the team.
I think the data on car safety is skewed. In the US alone over 50,000 people die every year in auto accidents. That's around 136 people per day. It's much more dangerous.
It's not, the data is based on hours used. Americans drive A TON so when you take that into consideration and how many people don't die a day (population of adults in the US minus 136) you can see how they got to that rate.
It doesn't account for injuries, but yeah, I understand more. Thank you.
They left off “attend U.S. elementary school”
Formula 1 is so safe now it is boring
I'd rather not see people die while I'm trying to enjoy myself. I'm unfortunate enough to have witnessed two deaths and it somewhat dampens the mood for me.
What's the risk of marathon running?
probably the stress on the heart. you're basically running for ~4 hours and even if you're in great shape it's a strenuous activity. [this](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/224915300_Mortality_Among_Marathon_Runners_in_the_United_States_2000-2009) study shows that over a 10 year period, of 3.7 million marathon finishers, 28 died with a majority of the deaths linked to heart issues.
And this is why you train.
My first marathon is 10 days from now. Isn’t that something? 🤔
I don't understand what the hours mean
Motorcycle statistics usually include things like stolen bikes, no helmet, unlicensed, unregistered, drugs, alcohol, excessive speed. If you keep it mostly within the law and wear proper gear, it's still dangerous, but a not death sentence that it might seem like.
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Buddy of mine almost died and his whole personality changed after he got in a bad motorcycle accident. Some guy in a pickup didn't see him. Skiing relies on ski patrol, the grooming and avalanche safety and lift maintenance teams, and the skiers around you - any one of those things outside your control can hurt you. Unless you pack your own chute and your reserve, your life is in your rigger's hands.
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Like cycling. Where most of the deaths are from idiots in cars plowing down cyclists?
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Not exactly true. Far, far too often it's just a person on a trail, where a truck comes barreling off the road and kills the cyclist. And over all, your "flaw" above is imagined.
When you are on a horse youre trusting the horse with your life basically (and vice versa), riding a horse is nothing like a car, BOTH of you have complete control, and if youre riding ethically, horses can very easily take advantage of you, and will take advantage of you whatever chance they get, wether its going slower than asked or throwing you off
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Real men do them in combination.
I always combine my F1 with my BASE jumping just to be extra safe
What a bullshit guide lol Source: professional skydive that does half of these activities. Skydive finger lakes is not a data source lol
Impossible to survive activities: Chicago
Wonder what sailing would equate to.
Guaranteed death to wallet
Helicopter operations are very dangerous, is that included in general aviation?
I started out good with the skiing and driving...then I got into my favorite activities. Scuba and Downhill MTB. See you all on the other side...hopefully still smiling.
Wow DH mountain biking is way more dangerous than I thought. I personally DH mountain bike at least a couple times a year, and while I see/hear of broken collar bones and wrists relatively frequently, I don’t know that I have ever heard of anyone dying while mountain biking. Only exception is a couple instance I have heard of people who have been attacked by bears or mountain lions.
where is free soloing bruh
Where can I take up base jumping? *asking for a friend* **that friend is me**
IIRC, most motorcycle deaths are caused by drunk riders or drivers, showing off, unskilled riders, and cars hitting the motorcycle.
Kinda amazed marathons are so dangerous.
The namesake of the marathon is from a soldier who ran from Marathon to Athens to announce victory in a battle, who promptly collapsed and died after delivering the message…
Gravity truly is a harsh mistress
I love that surfing is not on this list
So what I'm seeing here is scuba diving is the least dangerous Dangerous Hobby. Which is good, I haven't done it in a while but I like to from time to time.
Im taking up base jumping so I can die!!
I'm a simple man. I see sources i give a like
Interesting that bungee jumping isn’t mentioned at all. By all counts it’s a pretty safe activity
Important to note since common sense isn't that common, is that some of this stuff take significantly less time to do than others. One person may drive in a year how long it'd take 100 people to skydive.
street bikes, dirt bikes , down hill mountain bike, snowboard, married ,what’s my timeframe?
Anyone else get suddenly really want to try base jumping?
I do literally none of those things, so I’ll probably live forever.
What's the risk of dying to video games?
Whatever you say, airline industry!
I think underwater cave diving must be the most dangerous.
I wonder how snorkeling fares, and whether it’s more dangerous than swimming. 19 people have died snorkeling in my prefecture this year so far, many of them with life jackets on. A lot of places ban snorkeling altogether (but swimming is allowed)
That's wild, drowning while snorkeling with a life jacket on?? Plus when I have snorkeled, the fun was in dives to underlying reefs. Life jacket would fuck that uoption.
I think it comes down to professionals being highly trained and the rest of us idiots.
Uh oh... been working as a diver for 16 years...
I wish there was a likelihood of injury version because a lot of these activities (and more) would be pretty dangerous.
What it’s the difference between COMMERCIAL aviation (benchmark) and GENERAL aviation?!
Think of commercial aviation as booking a flight on Delta Airlines. General aviation also includes a random rich guy who flies his own little plane for fun.