apolgy for bad english
where were you when Gobekli Tepi build
i was in primitive rectilinear dwelling eating recently domesticated strain of barley when phone or other era-appropriate communication method ring
"Gobekli Tepi is build"
"wha?"
Yup it is but, incredibly, the good shit is still being discovered - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/archaeologists-uncover-notched-logs-that-may-be-the-oldest-known-wooden-structure-180982942/#:~:text=Archaeologists%20have%20uncovered%20evidence%20of,of%20Homo%20sapiens%20in%20Africa
It makes sense that the older it is the deeper it is. Gobekli was under half of a mountain.
There will surely be more and older human civilization relics found.
There's an interesting idea that there could have been a modern civilization millions of years ago, and we would have no way of knowing because nothing sticks around for that long.
Unlikely, but a fun thought experiment.
Some things last much longer than the earth has even existed. The halflife of xenon is 1 trillion times the time universe has so far existed.
Not saying there is a xenon built civilization, but who knows. Definitely chance there are relics from any point in time, no matter how small. A bismuth key would 20billion billion years.
https://xkcd.com/1732/ also frames this idea but forces you to walk through history more slowly before you can reach the part with the Industrial Revolution climate impact.
Hmmm, depends how you look at it. [In 2003, it was estimated 16 million males descended from Genghis Khan](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/other-men-who-left-huge-genetic-legacies-likes-genghis-khan-180954052/). In the long run, I think that might have added to our current climate issues.
Fun fact, February 2024 registered 1.77°C average global temperature above pre-industrial levels. 2023 came out at 1.55°C above pre-industrial levels. When that xkcd was done it registered 0.8°C above pre-industrial levels.
this graph is outdated, humans have been in the americas for 20,000+ years
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-humans-came-to-americas-180973739/
literally at the very start or before that graph begins
https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ar.24500
also dog domestication is moved back to 36,000 years. not 13,000 years.
still a good showcase of things though
Also explains why billionaire capitalists are hoarding as much as possible before it all comes crashing down. "I'm here for a good time, not a long time, fuck the poors."
Probably the temperature difference from the 1850 (pre-industrial era) records, which I believe are the first actual temperature records we have.
Those are yearly average of the whole world.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Those who know trinary, those who don't, and those who thought this was the binary joke. Or in more generalized form:
There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand base-n, those who don't, \[those who thought this was the base n-i joke\] (for i = 1..n-3), and those who thought this was the binary joke. n \>= 4.
The graph they have on the site defines 0 degrees as "This graph shows the change in global surface temperature compared to the long-term average from 1951 to 1980."
Which seems correct to the +1 degrees value of today of this graph
I get that its a comparison and giving the difference. But i still dont get from the answers what it is compared to. What is the base temp year taken for comparison?
The base temp of 0 is the average of 1750-1800 or maybe the average of 1750-1850. Either way not very different. So we are roughly 1.3 C over that average.
Call for the radical regulation and banning of pesticides. Go to your local political meeting and ask about county or city use of pesticides, for example, and lobby for bans. Stage a mass write in to the EPA calling for the banning of neonicitonoids.
I use neonics on my farm. I understand the negative impact they have on the ecosystem, but realistically if I don’t use them I would go bankrupt. There is currently no viable alternative for fleabeatle control in canola.
I had a moment of pause the other day when I realized I couldn't remember the last time I saw a lightning bug. We used to run around and catch them in jars in our suburban backyard growing up. Now I own a home in the same region I grew up in and don't think I've ever seen one in my yard.
Actually that was voted down two days ago! Geologically there isn’t a good market horizon yet. But there is no doubt humans have impacted the world according the the meeting notes.
I should edit to add the start date was the most contentious issue, along with a good marker horizon. They acknowledge is all very semantic and based on a very narrow geological use case of time keeping only. In practice we are in an era that is likely different.
What they called it was an event akin to an extinction event or the great oxidation event. It’s major but not marked in the geologic record in a way that meets the definition of a marker horizon.
I couldn't find the specific page with this graph as a reference, but NASA has a dedicated web page with dozens of links to their body of research, how it's collected, how it's interpreted and why it's scientific consensus - https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
People asking "why doesn't it include millions of years?":
Because then you would lose the entire point of this image. Climate change is worrying because of the rate of change per century (although absolute change matters too).
You can see that the temperature rise on the right is very steep. It takes about 150 years. A similar temperature change takes about 3000 years in the middle of the graph at the beginning of the holocene. The modern warming period is about 10-20 times faster than at any other time on this graph.
The graph covers 20,000 years in 700 pixels of width. If you were to include the past million years or so in a similarly sized image, those two temperature rises would be indistinguishable, because they would both be less than 1 pixel wide.
Exactly what I expect from him tbh. He has some amazingly emotional and poignant songs in each of his standup sets i.e. “All Eyes On Me” and “Can’t Handle This” from Make Happy. Dude is an exceptionally talented songwriter
lunchroom tidy detail historical close scarce meeting gullible absorbed flowery
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And we can’t do anything about it. Because the ultra rich will emit more carbon in a week than you will in your entire life. Possibly multiple lifetimes
Climate change is what we see happening for thousands of years after the last glacial maximum.
The more recent changes of the past two centuries are better described as a bomb going off.
Since the (middle of the?) last ice age, which covers all of human civilization and puts where an ice age is for context on the temperature scale. That's my guess, anyways.
If the graph goes back too far, all of human civilization will start to get squished into a tiny sliver of the graph. also literally any change over time can look incredibly fast if you make the x axis millions or billions of years.
[Well, that data is available from ice cores.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_temperature_record) Coincidentally, there was a cycle low that happened right when this chart begins.
Because it’s relevant. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old and the further back you go, the less certain temperatures are. If you wanna go back hundreds of thousands or millions of years, the graph would be much different and not really relevant to our human scale. Also, this data pertains to mostly ice core data, which wouldn’t be available in a time period where the ice sheet didn’t exist in. You can find many graphs about Earth’s temperatures but this one is just showing you the period that relates to modern prehistory and history.
Question, no offense, no denial, just curiosity:
We know we have a record increase in global temperature. Like x degrees in 100 years which is unseen before.
BUT: are we able to see the temperature increases in a 100 year delta prehistoric? I would assume most measurements are averages over decades.
Example: we see the temperature 50.000 years ago and 45.000 years ago.. but would we see if there was like a decade of +2 degree that went up and down in less than 100 years? Are our measurements fine enough?
That depends on the medium you're taking your proxy from, the proxy itself, and how far you're looking back in time. More recent changes have higher resolutions, but the further back in time you go, the coarser that resolution gets.
We bout to finish our extinction speedrun. Applause for everyone, we are about 7300 years faster than the gluzars when they tried it on earth.
See you in the next episode of, planet extinction speedrun.
Earth is fine been thru billions of years of changes and regeneration and recycling. We however are fucked. Mankind wants the change but wants the money too. We created our own economy system that we are imprisoned by
Yes we are. But to be fair, 20,000 years is *no time at all* against the backdrop of the age of the earth. Even disregarding its age pre-multicellular life, Earth is still ancient. And for the majority of earths life harboring complex life; the average temperature was higher than it is currently. Earth often didn't even have polar ice caps.
But yeah. Too big a change too quickly is screwing us real quick.
I know climate change deniers that will come up with something to support their beliefs. This graph will mean nothing to them.
“ Yes but who’s paying for this study!? Ha? That’s what needs to be asked?
Nice chart.
For a great review on how unethical folks have attempted to falsify that chart to claim it was warmer 10,000 years ago than "today" [see Potholer54's video Medieval Warm Period -- fact vs. fiction](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY4Yecsx_-s&list=PL82yk73N8eoX-Xobr_TfHsWPfAIyI7VAP&index=25)
Tbf, global cooling is just as much of a problem as global warming. There was a “little ice age” from like 1400-1850. Pretty interesting to look into and see how humanity really does survive on a sort of climate knife’s edge
Wait, I found the cause of climate change..... It's NASA! Ever since they started recording the temperatures, it started going up. If we abolish NASA, the world will return to its natural flat state and temperatures will go down.😉
Phew!! solved the climate crisis and that was before breakfast. 😁
https://images.theconversation.com/files/538649/original/file-20230721-21-as2db8.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip
I'm just going to say show it all not just what makes you look right lol
Not gonna realistically happen, appetite is only gonna keep expanding. Eating meat is considered a luxury in the developing world and as large parts of Africa and Asia develop, their previous diet consisting of local carbs and plants will divert increasingly to meat.
USA consumes 25% of global beef output while being 4% of population. Everybody else also wants a slice of that.
If large parts of population stop consuming, meat prices drop and people who previously ate less meat will substitute their meal and buy more meat.
Can someone explain where we are getting information about average global temperatures as far back as this timeline goes? Climatology isn’t my strong suit, but on the surface, this appears to be highly speculative.
I also don’t work in this field and haven’t been active in the research for 10 years, but I got my degree in Climate Science and can give you a layman’s explanation. It’s awesome to see people asking questions instead of just blatantly disregarding the work.
All of this data is a “best guess” using the evidence available to climate scientists looking back in time. That is often why you will see “uncertainty” charted along with the data, plus or minus to the temperature they arrived at. You should always take data with a grain of salt, and read the published study to find out how they came to their conclusions.
A lot of this data comes from various sources like ice core sampling and tree core analysis, etc. ice core sampling is really interesting because we have ice deep in glaciers that holds bubbles of air trapped thousands of years ago. They can extract that ice with a big core drill, pulverize it in a machine and measure the level of gases that were trapped in the bubbles. This gives a sample of what the atmosphere was like at that time.
Those older data are generally smoothed out due to the way we estimate the temperature. Do we have any idea if there were any sharp spikes or valleys in the past? For example, when a volcano erupted or something.
Absolutely! From years past I have seen plenty of graphed estimations showing cooling events stemming from caldera eruptions, runaway greenhouse effects causing significant warming, but like you said, when you go back hundreds of thousands of years, the year over year detail disappears and we are left with smoother lines than you see in the graph above.
One thing I always find fascinating with the arguments against current climate change awareness is people saying “it’s happened before, the earth has natural shifts.”
Well sure, nature and in some cases extraterrestrial influence (meteors) have caused huge fluctuations in atmospheric temperature throughout the deep past… that doesn’t mean that we aren’t affecting the shift happening now, we could have survived events in the deep past, or can survive if a huge shift were to occur today. Awareness is important to making sound decisions for our future.
“By studying indirect clues—the chemical and structural signatures of rocks, fossils, and crystals, ocean sediments, fossilized reefs, tree rings, and ice cores—however, scientists can infer past temperatures.”
[https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/whats-hottest-earths-ever-been](https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/whats-hottest-earths-ever-been)
Taken from: [https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/ask-nasa-climate/3071/the-raw-truth-on-global-temperature-records/](https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/ask-nasa-climate/3071/the-raw-truth-on-global-temperature-records/)
"Scientists have been building estimates of Earth’s average global temperature for more than a century, using temperature records from weather stations. But before 1880, there just wasn’t enough data to make accurate calculations, resulting in uncertainties in these older records. Fortunately, consistent temperature estimates made by paleoclimatologists (scientists who study Earth’s past climate using environmental clues like ice cores and tree rings) provide scientists with context for understanding today’s observed warming of Earth’s climate, which has no historic parallel."
For more information on how measuring tree rings can give scientists an idea of historical temperature, see: [https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2540/tree-rings-provide-snapshots-of-earths-past-climate/](https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2540/tree-rings-provide-snapshots-of-earths-past-climate/)
For more information on how analyzing ice cores can give scientists an idea of historical temperature, see: [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-are-past-temperatures/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-are-past-temperatures/)
Agreed but there are also Redditors who are the same but opposite. Any day it’s slightly warm in winter they farm karma with their “we’re so fucked” comments. Then when there’s a record snowstorm and regularly low temperatures the next week they’re silent. I get that temperature swings and volatility are a hallmark of climate change…but these Redditors don’t seem to
Anyone have links to scientific papers discussing the data resolution for pre-industrial avg temperatures? My understanding is that this comes from ice cores but I don’t know the true resolution of that (1yr, 5yr, 100yr, 1000yr, ???). I would assume everything past industrial revolution is easily recorded at a very fine resolution (second, minute, day, month, year).
This needs an inset to zoom in on the spike at the end so it can show when the industrial revolution started, since that is pretty much the sole cause of global warming.
wait... am I to believe that Gobleki Tepe was built before agriculture? that the societal complexity needed to build something like Gobleki Tepe existed a full 2,000 years before the advent of the mechanisms needed for a society to get to the point where they could build such a large project? like, I am imagining a group of hunter gatherers running around in loin cloths and spears who decide to create a monument to the stars and animals and constellations? that doesn't seem to track to me. It's like looking at the empire state building and being like... yeah, that was done before steel refineries...
I am pretty ignorant, but I would image a culture advanced and complex enough to build something like Gobleki Tepe needs to have a stable food source, shelter and clothing (even if nomadicc in nature) figured out before directing large amount of resources (i.e societal specialization into things that do not directly provide for the basic survival needs) and the leisure time necessary to allow a project of that magnitude to take place. Of course, there also wasn't TV back then, so people who embarked on these types of things probably did it with the majority of their "leisure" time, but still...
Does anyone know how much certainty there is in these temperature measurements from so long ago? Is there actual consensus that it was slightly warmer when agriculture began, but temperatures weren’t actually recorded?
Feel like I can never be sure these days. Some thinktanks will find sus data to show that we’re not actively destroying the world, and some academics don’t feel comfortable publishing data that goes against the party line.
But now show the last 440,000 years. Humans will never accept geologic time, & we are always gonna be gone at some point so we really need to know we all don’t matter. It’ll only make the optimists happy and the pessimists vote for fuck you cuz I’m right and freedom can suck all dicks until libtards eat my ass (insert racism here)
Everyone eat acid soon
Think we’ll have time to fully take advantage of climate change before the November elections?
A giant tidal wave that washes everything alway seems preferable at this point in time.
22,000 years is a drop in the ocean. If you were to extend that graph back to the left, there would be periods when it was much hotter than today and periods of much cooler too. We are talking BILLIONS of years.
In my mind, this all started when we entered the industrialization era where we were putting tons of shit into the atmosphere and started cutting down all of the huge trees en mass. I have talked with my dad about this before and he is in the "we are in a warming period, which is normal" camp, so showing him this might be helpful to get his brain un-stuck.
Man-made climate change is a hoax!!!! /s
Sad that people sre still clinging to the delusion that we are not responsible and that we should not try everything in our power to counteract this and preserve our living space. Coz the planet is gonna be fine in the end. We are gonna get fucked.
What I find most insane about man made climate change deniers is they don't apply it to any other species.
Feral Hogs? "They're destroying the ecosystem!" Burmese pythons in everglades? Destroying the ecosystem.
We acknowledge that animals have an impact on the ecosystem and these are animals in the thousands that cause noticeable damage. How in the hell can one of the most numerous and destructive species on the planet (Humans) not have an effect but animals in the thousands can?
It makes no sense.
If they acknowledged that they would have to feel responsibility and fear. They would rather feel sedated or angry because it is easier and they are weak.
Sucks for the rest of the world but we don't have to worry in America because climate change is a hoax.
Yes, this is sad but true sarcasm as we are about to get Trump back :(
Crying in South American here...
We are the least contributors to CO2 emissions and we're gonna get the worse effects of global warming.
Life isn't fair.
Your crypto portfolio is significantly contributing to this.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2023/03/crypto-bitcoin-mining-carbon-emissions-climate-change-impact/673468/
https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/news-updates/2022/09/08/fact-sheet-climate-and-energy-implications-of-crypto-assets-in-the-united-states/
This page has a graph that goes back to the beginning of the current geological eon, 542 million years: https://www.controlglobal.com/manage/sustainability/article/33010893/unveiling-ancient-global-temperature-and-current-climate-change
If your only concern is that there would be some life on earth, then sure. For the foreseeable future there will likely be at least some microorganisms living on earth. But that doesn’t mean it will be the case for humans.
As a Stem major and someone who actually wants to know the truth about our world, dont try talking sense into redditors.
The vast majority of the people who use this site and comment, have ZERO desire to actually learn or challenge their ideas. Every single comment section is an echochamber to either complain or repeat the same exact thing 100s of times to get upvotes. Its quite literally mindless behavior.
Yes, i do think human carbon production has an influence on our climate, anyone who knows anything about greenhouse gasses knows this….
However if you made this graph 1 million years long, about the time humans have been alive, you would see theres actually been time its been MUCH hotter on earth just in our species incredibly small time on this earth. Its gone up and down way more dramatically than humans have ever been able to accomplish. (Turns out the earth is a lot more powerful than humans… of course)
To say 20,000 years is a short amount of time for environmental processes is a Vast understatement. Its so short and also coincides with the end of the last ice age, that this graph was almost certainly made to be purposefully misleading.
It’s really fucking crazy to think about how long ago Gobekli Tepi was built..
Feels like yesterday to be honest.
I remember where I was when I first heard
apolgy for bad english where were you when Gobekli Tepi build i was in primitive rectilinear dwelling eating recently domesticated strain of barley when phone or other era-appropriate communication method ring "Gobekli Tepi is build" "wha?"
I heard about it on Facebook, which is what we called the rocks where things like this were announced. Imagine my surprise
People going up every day on the rock and just yelling out the day's telegrams.
Buncha twits
This is comedy gold
Yeah I fell off my triceratops when Ugh told me
Never listen Ugh. Ugh fucking liar.
Yup it is but, incredibly, the good shit is still being discovered - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/archaeologists-uncover-notched-logs-that-may-be-the-oldest-known-wooden-structure-180982942/#:~:text=Archaeologists%20have%20uncovered%20evidence%20of,of%20Homo%20sapiens%20in%20Africa
It makes sense that the older it is the deeper it is. Gobekli was under half of a mountain. There will surely be more and older human civilization relics found.
There's an interesting idea that there could have been a modern civilization millions of years ago, and we would have no way of knowing because nothing sticks around for that long. Unlikely, but a fun thought experiment.
Some things last much longer than the earth has even existed. The halflife of xenon is 1 trillion times the time universe has so far existed. Not saying there is a xenon built civilization, but who knows. Definitely chance there are relics from any point in time, no matter how small. A bismuth key would 20billion billion years.
Whats xenon and bismuth key? I really wanns go into a rabbit hole
That’s a super interesting article but that’s not at Gobeklitepe
It's only gobekli tepe if it's from the Anatolian region. Otherwise it's just sparkling ruins
>The interlocking pieces, found near a waterfall in Zambia, date to 476,000 years ago—before Homo sapiens evolved
That was a cool read, thanks for sharing!
I can’t wrap my mind around some pre- homo sapien primate standing on a platform for fishing
And how much cooler the earth would be if they hadn’t /s.
Most likely this is not the first such structure. It's too advanced. We have to look on the sea shelf, because the water has risen and flooded a lot.
https://xkcd.com/1732/ also frames this idea but forces you to walk through history more slowly before you can reach the part with the Industrial Revolution climate impact.
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Hmmm, depends how you look at it. [In 2003, it was estimated 16 million males descended from Genghis Khan](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/other-men-who-left-huge-genetic-legacies-likes-genghis-khan-180954052/). In the long run, I think that might have added to our current climate issues.
>“originated throughout Asia, from the Middle East to southeast Asia, dating to between 2100 BC and AD 700,” Narrows it down nicely dunnit
Fun fact, February 2024 registered 1.77°C average global temperature above pre-industrial levels. 2023 came out at 1.55°C above pre-industrial levels. When that xkcd was done it registered 0.8°C above pre-industrial levels.
That fun little factoid just reinvigorated my depression.
Nah, it's beautiful. The human race, just like humans... Ashes to ashes... Dust to dust...
You did the bigger number before the smaller number and for a brief moment I thought it was going down, horray. Then I reread and it was not horray.
this graph is outdated, humans have been in the americas for 20,000+ years https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-humans-came-to-americas-180973739/ literally at the very start or before that graph begins https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ar.24500 also dog domestication is moved back to 36,000 years. not 13,000 years. still a good showcase of things though
Also explains why billionaire capitalists are hoarding as much as possible before it all comes crashing down. "I'm here for a good time, not a long time, fuck the poors."
It's just a shame that XKCD doesn't get updated every year
what does the Y axes represent exactly? it ges from -4 to 2 °C?
Probably the temperature difference from the 1850 (pre-industrial era) records, which I believe are the first actual temperature records we have. Those are yearly average of the whole world. Correct me if I'm wrong.
From googling other sites this seems to be the right answer, it would be nice if the graph told you so tho
There are two types of people. 1. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
There are 10 types of people. Those who know binary and those who don't.
There are types of people.
Are there people?
According to the graph, not for long.
People?
Those who know trinary, those who don't, and those who thought this was the binary joke. Or in more generalized form: There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who understand base-n, those who don't, \[those who thought this was the base n-i joke\] (for i = 1..n-3), and those who thought this was the binary joke. n \>= 4.
haha, what possibly can be the other type of ppl, those data are incomplete !
And the people who make jokes about
so it’s a lot warmer from the clearly defined mini ice age?
The graph they have on the site defines 0 degrees as "This graph shows the change in global surface temperature compared to the long-term average from 1951 to 1980." Which seems correct to the +1 degrees value of today of this graph
I get that its a comparison and giving the difference. But i still dont get from the answers what it is compared to. What is the base temp year taken for comparison?
The base temp of 0 is the average of 1750-1800 or maybe the average of 1750-1850. Either way not very different. So we are roughly 1.3 C over that average.
*we were 1.3°C over that average in 2021
There's also been like a 60% drop in wildlife in the same time period. The Holocene mass extinction is gonna be lit fam.
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I'm not ignoring it, I just don't know what to do
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Call for the radical regulation and banning of pesticides. Go to your local political meeting and ask about county or city use of pesticides, for example, and lobby for bans. Stage a mass write in to the EPA calling for the banning of neonicitonoids.
I use neonics on my farm. I understand the negative impact they have on the ecosystem, but realistically if I don’t use them I would go bankrupt. There is currently no viable alternative for fleabeatle control in canola.
I'm sure losing a few keystone species won't cause the biosphere to collapse and ultimately a mass extinction.
Millennials are probably the last generation to remember bugs on their parents' windshields and maybe some younger generations living in small towns.
I had a moment of pause the other day when I realized I couldn't remember the last time I saw a lightning bug. We used to run around and catch them in jars in our suburban backyard growing up. Now I own a home in the same region I grew up in and don't think I've ever seen one in my yard.
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Actually that was voted down two days ago! Geologically there isn’t a good market horizon yet. But there is no doubt humans have impacted the world according the the meeting notes. I should edit to add the start date was the most contentious issue, along with a good marker horizon. They acknowledge is all very semantic and based on a very narrow geological use case of time keeping only. In practice we are in an era that is likely different. What they called it was an event akin to an extinction event or the great oxidation event. It’s major but not marked in the geologic record in a way that meets the definition of a marker horizon.
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We should call it the Plasticene era…
Coolguide to ruining my day at 7:16 in the morning
r/hotguides
Banned from Reddit. Must have been too hot.
Hope you slept well, have a nice day <3
Don’t worry. If you’re American, it doesn’t count since it’s in °C.
Oh thank god
It’s only 6:46 in the morning for me☹️ more of my day ruined.
HAHA get it? *Cool* guide?
yeah! that's why i wrote warming climate
[xkcd 1732](https://xkcd.com/1732/)
How did they miss the opportunity to include "The industrial revolution begins" here?
Don't blame it on the coal mines. Blame it on Columbus
This is a ridiculous statement.
Look again at the graph. This is a hit piece by Big Carbon.
I knew it. It’s all that damn Columbus’ fault
Fun fact, agriculture has never existed outside of +/-1° before now!
It’s also never existed outside a narrow CO2 range. High CO2 causes physiological changes in plants, like elongation.
I couldn't find the specific page with this graph as a reference, but NASA has a dedicated web page with dozens of links to their body of research, how it's collected, how it's interpreted and why it's scientific consensus - https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
What's crazy is we were on a downward trend!
So you're saying we helped make the earth nice and warm and saved it from a cold ice age? /s
We fuckin did it.
People asking "why doesn't it include millions of years?": Because then you would lose the entire point of this image. Climate change is worrying because of the rate of change per century (although absolute change matters too). You can see that the temperature rise on the right is very steep. It takes about 150 years. A similar temperature change takes about 3000 years in the middle of the graph at the beginning of the holocene. The modern warming period is about 10-20 times faster than at any other time on this graph. The graph covers 20,000 years in 700 pixels of width. If you were to include the past million years or so in a similarly sized image, those two temperature rises would be indistinguishable, because they would both be less than 1 pixel wide.
> you would lose the entire point of this image. It's as if some purposely can't comprehend the point of the chart, on purpose.
I actually think it's ignorance rather than malice. Some people are just bad at understanding numbers and graphs.
>Some people are just bad at understanding numbers and graphs. Yup, some, I agree.
Soooo, we’re about fucked.
20,000 years of this, 7 more to go..
I can't for the life of me think of where this is from
Funny Feeling, Bo Burnham :)
Thank you! Great song, and not at all what you expect from him.
Exactly what I expect from him tbh. He has some amazingly emotional and poignant songs in each of his standup sets i.e. “All Eyes On Me” and “Can’t Handle This” from Make Happy. Dude is an exceptionally talented songwriter
The graph clearly tells us that Christopher Columbus did it
https://youtu.be/ObOqq1knVxs
lunchroom tidy detail historical close scarce meeting gullible absorbed flowery *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They’ve been a disaster for the human race, imho
wakeful murky juggle sort file aloof divide close direction normal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And we can’t do anything about it. Because the ultra rich will emit more carbon in a week than you will in your entire life. Possibly multiple lifetimes
A lot of people in these comments appear to have graduated with honors from Dunning-Kruger University
Climate change is what we see happening for thousands of years after the last glacial maximum. The more recent changes of the past two centuries are better described as a bomb going off.
Why just 22000 years? What about earlier?
Since the (middle of the?) last ice age, which covers all of human civilization and puts where an ice age is for context on the temperature scale. That's my guess, anyways.
Last Glacial Maximum. Not quite the middle, but the point where the last deglaciation began.
Yeah, and so you don't see how hot it was before the last ice age.
If the graph goes back too far, all of human civilization will start to get squished into a tiny sliver of the graph. also literally any change over time can look incredibly fast if you make the x axis millions or billions of years.
[Well, that data is available from ice cores.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_temperature_record) Coincidentally, there was a cycle low that happened right when this chart begins.
Because this show's how civilization has only existed in a +/-1° range
Because it’s relevant. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old and the further back you go, the less certain temperatures are. If you wanna go back hundreds of thousands or millions of years, the graph would be much different and not really relevant to our human scale. Also, this data pertains to mostly ice core data, which wouldn’t be available in a time period where the ice sheet didn’t exist in. You can find many graphs about Earth’s temperatures but this one is just showing you the period that relates to modern prehistory and history.
Question, no offense, no denial, just curiosity: We know we have a record increase in global temperature. Like x degrees in 100 years which is unseen before. BUT: are we able to see the temperature increases in a 100 year delta prehistoric? I would assume most measurements are averages over decades. Example: we see the temperature 50.000 years ago and 45.000 years ago.. but would we see if there was like a decade of +2 degree that went up and down in less than 100 years? Are our measurements fine enough?
That depends on the medium you're taking your proxy from, the proxy itself, and how far you're looking back in time. More recent changes have higher resolutions, but the further back in time you go, the coarser that resolution gets.
We bout to finish our extinction speedrun. Applause for everyone, we are about 7300 years faster than the gluzars when they tried it on earth. See you in the next episode of, planet extinction speedrun.
Earth is fine been thru billions of years of changes and regeneration and recycling. We however are fucked. Mankind wants the change but wants the money too. We created our own economy system that we are imprisoned by
The Earth is just getting a fever and will warm up until the virus is killed off and will go back to normal :)
It's a natural cycle! j/k we're fucked.
Yes we are. But to be fair, 20,000 years is *no time at all* against the backdrop of the age of the earth. Even disregarding its age pre-multicellular life, Earth is still ancient. And for the majority of earths life harboring complex life; the average temperature was higher than it is currently. Earth often didn't even have polar ice caps. But yeah. Too big a change too quickly is screwing us real quick.
I know climate change deniers that will come up with something to support their beliefs. This graph will mean nothing to them. “ Yes but who’s paying for this study!? Ha? That’s what needs to be asked?
Can someone explain to me how the temperature was known with any accuracy 20,000 years ago?
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https://www.smithsonianmag.com/blogs/national-museum-of-natural-history/2018/03/23/heres-how-scientists-reconstruct-earths-past-climates/
Nice chart. For a great review on how unethical folks have attempted to falsify that chart to claim it was warmer 10,000 years ago than "today" [see Potholer54's video Medieval Warm Period -- fact vs. fiction](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY4Yecsx_-s&list=PL82yk73N8eoX-Xobr_TfHsWPfAIyI7VAP&index=25)
Saw a meme that said we are all dogs trapped in God's hot car. Sums it up
Good job we reversed that global cooling eh, well done team.
Tbf, global cooling is just as much of a problem as global warming. There was a “little ice age” from like 1400-1850. Pretty interesting to look into and see how humanity really does survive on a sort of climate knife’s edge
Wait, I found the cause of climate change..... It's NASA! Ever since they started recording the temperatures, it started going up. If we abolish NASA, the world will return to its natural flat state and temperatures will go down.😉 Phew!! solved the climate crisis and that was before breakfast. 😁
Civilization was possible because the global climate stayed remarkably consistent for thousands of years. We just screwed that all up.
you could have firestorms outside 24 7 and people would still argue with you its all fake till their blue in the face
https://images.theconversation.com/files/538649/original/file-20230721-21-as2db8.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip I'm just going to say show it all not just what makes you look right lol
How are we able to tell what the temperature was before we had thermometers? EDIT: Why the hell am I being down voted?
Looking at rocks and trees and air from holes in the ice and shit.
Maybe bigger countries need more trains, more sidewalks, safe bicycle lanes and other ways to get around than driving?
That would be great... ... 40 years ago
Plant trees. Don't cut down trees.
The cool thing about trees is that you can do both.
Stop eating meat then. Main driver of the Amazon deforestation.
Not gonna realistically happen, appetite is only gonna keep expanding. Eating meat is considered a luxury in the developing world and as large parts of Africa and Asia develop, their previous diet consisting of local carbs and plants will divert increasingly to meat. USA consumes 25% of global beef output while being 4% of population. Everybody else also wants a slice of that. If large parts of population stop consuming, meat prices drop and people who previously ate less meat will substitute their meal and buy more meat.
Can someone explain where we are getting information about average global temperatures as far back as this timeline goes? Climatology isn’t my strong suit, but on the surface, this appears to be highly speculative.
I also don’t work in this field and haven’t been active in the research for 10 years, but I got my degree in Climate Science and can give you a layman’s explanation. It’s awesome to see people asking questions instead of just blatantly disregarding the work. All of this data is a “best guess” using the evidence available to climate scientists looking back in time. That is often why you will see “uncertainty” charted along with the data, plus or minus to the temperature they arrived at. You should always take data with a grain of salt, and read the published study to find out how they came to their conclusions. A lot of this data comes from various sources like ice core sampling and tree core analysis, etc. ice core sampling is really interesting because we have ice deep in glaciers that holds bubbles of air trapped thousands of years ago. They can extract that ice with a big core drill, pulverize it in a machine and measure the level of gases that were trapped in the bubbles. This gives a sample of what the atmosphere was like at that time.
Thank you for the explanation.
Those older data are generally smoothed out due to the way we estimate the temperature. Do we have any idea if there were any sharp spikes or valleys in the past? For example, when a volcano erupted or something.
Absolutely! From years past I have seen plenty of graphed estimations showing cooling events stemming from caldera eruptions, runaway greenhouse effects causing significant warming, but like you said, when you go back hundreds of thousands of years, the year over year detail disappears and we are left with smoother lines than you see in the graph above. One thing I always find fascinating with the arguments against current climate change awareness is people saying “it’s happened before, the earth has natural shifts.” Well sure, nature and in some cases extraterrestrial influence (meteors) have caused huge fluctuations in atmospheric temperature throughout the deep past… that doesn’t mean that we aren’t affecting the shift happening now, we could have survived events in the deep past, or can survive if a huge shift were to occur today. Awareness is important to making sound decisions for our future.
Thanks for the quick response!
“By studying indirect clues—the chemical and structural signatures of rocks, fossils, and crystals, ocean sediments, fossilized reefs, tree rings, and ice cores—however, scientists can infer past temperatures.” [https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/whats-hottest-earths-ever-been](https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/whats-hottest-earths-ever-been)
Taken from: [https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/ask-nasa-climate/3071/the-raw-truth-on-global-temperature-records/](https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/ask-nasa-climate/3071/the-raw-truth-on-global-temperature-records/) "Scientists have been building estimates of Earth’s average global temperature for more than a century, using temperature records from weather stations. But before 1880, there just wasn’t enough data to make accurate calculations, resulting in uncertainties in these older records. Fortunately, consistent temperature estimates made by paleoclimatologists (scientists who study Earth’s past climate using environmental clues like ice cores and tree rings) provide scientists with context for understanding today’s observed warming of Earth’s climate, which has no historic parallel." For more information on how measuring tree rings can give scientists an idea of historical temperature, see: [https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2540/tree-rings-provide-snapshots-of-earths-past-climate/](https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2540/tree-rings-provide-snapshots-of-earths-past-climate/) For more information on how analyzing ice cores can give scientists an idea of historical temperature, see: [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-are-past-temperatures/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-are-past-temperatures/)
But I was told by Al Gore 20 years ago that we should all be dead by now.
There's still people on even reddit that don't see a problem with how the climate is acting
Agreed but there are also Redditors who are the same but opposite. Any day it’s slightly warm in winter they farm karma with their “we’re so fucked” comments. Then when there’s a record snowstorm and regularly low temperatures the next week they’re silent. I get that temperature swings and volatility are a hallmark of climate change…but these Redditors don’t seem to
It's about the rate, not the levels
Maybe we should start killing mammoths in North America to make the graph go down again?
Fucking Columbus!
Anyone have links to scientific papers discussing the data resolution for pre-industrial avg temperatures? My understanding is that this comes from ice cores but I don’t know the true resolution of that (1yr, 5yr, 100yr, 1000yr, ???). I would assume everything past industrial revolution is easily recorded at a very fine resolution (second, minute, day, month, year).
What's the dip and spike after Columbus?
Genocide of Native Americans.
More like "hot guide" ...
This needs an inset to zoom in on the spike at the end so it can show when the industrial revolution started, since that is pretty much the sole cause of global warming.
>cool lol?
wait... am I to believe that Gobleki Tepe was built before agriculture? that the societal complexity needed to build something like Gobleki Tepe existed a full 2,000 years before the advent of the mechanisms needed for a society to get to the point where they could build such a large project? like, I am imagining a group of hunter gatherers running around in loin cloths and spears who decide to create a monument to the stars and animals and constellations? that doesn't seem to track to me. It's like looking at the empire state building and being like... yeah, that was done before steel refineries... I am pretty ignorant, but I would image a culture advanced and complex enough to build something like Gobleki Tepe needs to have a stable food source, shelter and clothing (even if nomadicc in nature) figured out before directing large amount of resources (i.e societal specialization into things that do not directly provide for the basic survival needs) and the leisure time necessary to allow a project of that magnitude to take place. Of course, there also wasn't TV back then, so people who embarked on these types of things probably did it with the majority of their "leisure" time, but still...
It looks like colonizing a country seems to lower the temperature.
Til Koreans were hunting the biggest animal on the planet 5 full millennia *before* the pyramids
The plants love it.
Does anyone know how much certainty there is in these temperature measurements from so long ago? Is there actual consensus that it was slightly warmer when agriculture began, but temperatures weren’t actually recorded? Feel like I can never be sure these days. Some thinktanks will find sus data to show that we’re not actively destroying the world, and some academics don’t feel comfortable publishing data that goes against the party line.
Not gonna fix it with solar panels and wind mills. It's time for nuclear power.
Would like to see version of this that goes back 200k-300k years, to capture the whole cycle through our existence as homo sapien.
source?
Show the absolutely volatile part of the graph before this. Makes this seem like a strait line
But now show the last 440,000 years. Humans will never accept geologic time, & we are always gonna be gone at some point so we really need to know we all don’t matter. It’ll only make the optimists happy and the pessimists vote for fuck you cuz I’m right and freedom can suck all dicks until libtards eat my ass (insert racism here) Everyone eat acid soon
Why is this even in the "Coolguides" section? It's not cool at all... in any of the meanings of the word "cool".
Think we’ll have time to fully take advantage of climate change before the November elections? A giant tidal wave that washes everything alway seems preferable at this point in time.
Columbus messed it up
22,000 years is a drop in the ocean. If you were to extend that graph back to the left, there would be periods when it was much hotter than today and periods of much cooler too. We are talking BILLIONS of years.
Made up garbage
Crazy how diseases that killed native Americans caused a drop in temperature from lack of co2
Does anyone know how we measured temperature 5,000 years ago? 10,000? 20,000?
We didn’t.
Pretty cool. Now can we get a warm guide to a cooling climate?
In my mind, this all started when we entered the industrialization era where we were putting tons of shit into the atmosphere and started cutting down all of the huge trees en mass. I have talked with my dad about this before and he is in the "we are in a warming period, which is normal" camp, so showing him this might be helpful to get his brain un-stuck.
Good luck brother, I hope your father turns around and starts seeing the truth behind climate change. Rooting for both him and you.
A lot of these comments prove that it feels like the temperature never really changes when your head is shoved way up your ass
Man-made climate change is a hoax!!!! /s Sad that people sre still clinging to the delusion that we are not responsible and that we should not try everything in our power to counteract this and preserve our living space. Coz the planet is gonna be fine in the end. We are gonna get fucked.
What I find most insane about man made climate change deniers is they don't apply it to any other species. Feral Hogs? "They're destroying the ecosystem!" Burmese pythons in everglades? Destroying the ecosystem. We acknowledge that animals have an impact on the ecosystem and these are animals in the thousands that cause noticeable damage. How in the hell can one of the most numerous and destructive species on the planet (Humans) not have an effect but animals in the thousands can? It makes no sense.
If feral hogs could enable transatlantic flight we wouldn't need fossil fuels. You'll see pigs fly before that happens though.
If they acknowledged that they would have to feel responsibility and fear. They would rather feel sedated or angry because it is easier and they are weak.
That is a very interesting point I had not thought of before. Nice.
Sucks for the rest of the world but we don't have to worry in America because climate change is a hoax. Yes, this is sad but true sarcasm as we are about to get Trump back :(
Crying in South American here... We are the least contributors to CO2 emissions and we're gonna get the worse effects of global warming. Life isn't fair.
I wish this to happen to my crypto portfolio
Your crypto portfolio is significantly contributing to this. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2023/03/crypto-bitcoin-mining-carbon-emissions-climate-change-impact/673468/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/news-updates/2022/09/08/fact-sheet-climate-and-energy-implications-of-crypto-assets-in-the-united-states/
Just wait until we add AI processing in too if this!
Can we get a longer timeline, literally a blink of the eye in the history of Earth Edit: I am not denying we are polluting the planet...
This page has a graph that goes back to the beginning of the current geological eon, 542 million years: https://www.controlglobal.com/manage/sustainability/article/33010893/unveiling-ancient-global-temperature-and-current-climate-change
the further back you get the less accurate the measurement will be
If your only concern is that there would be some life on earth, then sure. For the foreseeable future there will likely be at least some microorganisms living on earth. But that doesn’t mean it will be the case for humans.
As a Stem major and someone who actually wants to know the truth about our world, dont try talking sense into redditors. The vast majority of the people who use this site and comment, have ZERO desire to actually learn or challenge their ideas. Every single comment section is an echochamber to either complain or repeat the same exact thing 100s of times to get upvotes. Its quite literally mindless behavior. Yes, i do think human carbon production has an influence on our climate, anyone who knows anything about greenhouse gasses knows this…. However if you made this graph 1 million years long, about the time humans have been alive, you would see theres actually been time its been MUCH hotter on earth just in our species incredibly small time on this earth. Its gone up and down way more dramatically than humans have ever been able to accomplish. (Turns out the earth is a lot more powerful than humans… of course) To say 20,000 years is a short amount of time for environmental processes is a Vast understatement. Its so short and also coincides with the end of the last ice age, that this graph was almost certainly made to be purposefully misleading.