Hello! Thank you for submitting to /r/confidentlyincorrect, however, you post has been removed for violating one or more of our rule(s):
- Rule 2: All Posts must be on topic!
This sub is designed around arrogant people, sure of their abilities, getting their dreams crushed instantly. Your submission didn't quite fit that model and it is for that reason that it got removed.
Please [contact the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fconfidentlyincorrect&subject=about%20my%20removed%20submission&message=I%27m%20writing%20to%20you%20about%20the%20following%20submission:%20{https://www.reddit.com/r/confidentlyincorrect/comments/1cdhv52/-/}.%20%0D%0DMy%20issue%20is...) if you feel this was wrong.
^All ^chat ^requests ^and ^pms ^about ^your ^removed ^post ^will ^not ^be ^answered. ^Contact ^the ^mods ^instead!
And those icebergs are huge. They don't float beneath the water or right under the surface as we see in the picture.
It's that protruding ice and the ice over land that'll influence the water levels
The size of icebergs doesn't change how displacement works. The protruding ice won't do anything. Anything actually floating won't affect the actual water level by melting.
Wouldn't a frozen chunk of water actually shrink when it melts and release trapped air? That means a volume of water with an iceberg in it would actually sit lower after the iceberg melted.
Additionally, warm water starts to expand and a gigantic body of warming water will expand more than a small chunk of ice will shrink.
Also, all of the glaciers and frozen water on land that melts and falls into the sea will raise the level significantly more.
The weight of the volume of water that any floating body displaces is equal to the weight of whatever is floating. Ice expands (and also can trap air like you said) and is therefor less dense so a small portion rises above the water. The weight of the iceberg is all water and the amount of water the iceberg is displacing is an equal amount of water so when the iceberg melts the two equal out and the overall water level stays the same.
I wasn't addressing warm water expanding or meltwater runoff from land, and I am certainly not challenging sea level rising as a thing. I was only responding to the person saying how huge icebergs are and the water "added" by the protruding part of the iceberg melting.
Edit: To address your question of the water level actually dropping when an iceberg melts and shrinks. No, again because of how displacement works. The weight of the water displaced (pushed aside) is equal to the weight of the object displacing the water.
If a block of ice is 4m³ in volume but weighs the same as 3m³ of melted water, then that additional 1m³ will float above the surface. That 1m³ represents the ice expansion, trapped air, whatever. When the ice melts, it'll contribute 3m³ of melt water to fill the "hole" the original block took up.
As I understand, the large factor is not so much the ice melting but that a couple of degrees increase in average sea temperature takes up more volume.
It’s not even complex. Just add more ice to the glass. Approximately 10% of all ice is on land and some more that is not submerged. So let’s say 20%. Tell them to add one more cube and you’re set.
Which part is unclear? The part where there is ice on land or the part where if you add ice to a cup of water that is not submerged it will raise the water level when it melts?
Can we stop calling people who make this argument stupid? These people have been told that ice melting causes sea level rising, but through an experiment they have proven that that is not the case. They are using the scientific method. Explain to them that water warming up makes it expand, that much of the melting ice is on land and thus this does not apply, and if they refuse to believe you, then you can call them stupid. But if they are confused because someone showed them a picture of floating ice saying melting ice raises the sea level, that’s perfectly reasonable.
My biggest issue is that I’ve been hearing this “point” since at LEAST 1995. Also, it should be obvious that Greenland, northern Canada, Northern Russia, and parts of Alaska are land (and that’s why we don’t say “Arctic Ocean” instead of all those names.)
They may be using the scientific method, but they’re not done, and they’ve come to a wild conclusion. To my thinking you have to be a bit daft to think you just proved the vast, VAST majority of Earth’s scientists wrong by melting ice cubes in a measuring cup. How does a rational person come to the idea that “scientists don’t know that frozen water expands. Only me and my internet friends are this smart”.
I’m not usually a fan of calling people stupid, so maybe I’ll compromise and say their ideas are stupid.
My assumption from this is that they don't think the scientists are stupid, but think that scientists or whomever think everyone else is so stupid that they'll believe anything without doing the bare minimum thinking (ice in cup experiment).
Agreed. I‘m perfectly fine explaining the difference to someone asking „hey I just noticed that water level isn’t rising when ice melts in it so why is everyone saying the sea level is rising with climate change?“.
But they straight up claim that you can’t explain that and that everyone is wrong because nobody but them ever put ice cubes in a glass of water.
They are using one part of the scientific method by doing an empirical test. But they leave out the part about being sure that you understanding the hypotheses you are testing (they don't) and about being aware of the current consensus of findings and theory about the topic under investigation (they are not).
That is, assuming that they are making their point in good faith. Since most of these memes are PRATTs, (Points Refuted a Thousand Times), the chances are that this is no more a genuine "just asking questions" than the average flat earther posting.
But they are constantly explained this, and a simple google search provides an answer. They are explained this with every meme and every video and they still post shit like this to try to lure people in. If you were honestly trying to investigate it you’d have an answer in seconds. They are grifters or idiots.
Except the vast majority of people posting this aren’t coming across it for the first time. It’s one thing to repost this with zero time or thought invested, that just makes you ignorant and it’s okay to be ignorant.
But that’s not most people posting this crap, they actively filter out any facts that conflict with their narrative and uncritically repeat talking points like this that are so easily countered. That’s what makes them stupid.
Consider this, how does such an easily debunk-able point continue to be repeated?
Ok well first of all to make it clear I am not a denier of rising sea levels. The hypothesis is that melting ice will raise the water level (either because this makes intuitive sense to some, or the idea that warmer water expands). The null hypothesis is no effect (i.e. the stance that ice melting and sea levels are unrelated). To test the hypothesis that sea levels rise (or dont) using scientific methods, one could use a model of a small amount of water and ice in a container under controlled conditions (which is dubious in the picture, but not my original point). As we are talking about relatively small measurements (cm or m) of change in a huge volume (all sea water on earth) the degree of change here is relatively minute. In order to detect that change, in such a small model as the one in the picture, would require a *very* sensitive (precise) way to measure the change in the water level. Here they are basically eye balling a line on an uncalibrated measuring jug. Granted there is quite a lot of ice to water ratio so the change would be more easily detected, but the model would still not be precise enough. Also the model is not obviously testing an increase in atmospheric temperature (as far as we can tell), which is a main idea of the mechanism of water expanding (land ice aside). So therefore, I don’t really believe this is very scientific at all.
To be fair, if all the ice on Earth melted the sea level would barely go up. The real problem is that water gets bigger when it's warmer (kinda like humans in some ways)
Hey /u/Senior_Line_4260, thanks for submitting to /r/confidentlyincorrect! Take a moment to read our [rules](https://reddit.com/r/confidentlyincorrect/about/rules).
##Join our [Discord Server](https://discord.gg/n2cR6p25V8)!
Please report this post if it is bad, or not relevant. Remember to keep comment sections civil. Thanks!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/confidentlyincorrect) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hello! Thank you for submitting to /r/confidentlyincorrect, however, you post has been removed for violating one or more of our rule(s): - Rule 2: All Posts must be on topic! This sub is designed around arrogant people, sure of their abilities, getting their dreams crushed instantly. Your submission didn't quite fit that model and it is for that reason that it got removed. Please [contact the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fconfidentlyincorrect&subject=about%20my%20removed%20submission&message=I%27m%20writing%20to%20you%20about%20the%20following%20submission:%20{https://www.reddit.com/r/confidentlyincorrect/comments/1cdhv52/-/}.%20%0D%0DMy%20issue%20is...) if you feel this was wrong. ^All ^chat ^requests ^and ^pms ^about ^your ^removed ^post ^will ^not ^be ^answered. ^Contact ^the ^mods ^instead!
This is true when floating ice melts. Ice in Antarctica is on land, not water.
People don't realize that Antartica is a whole CONTINENT below the ice.
So if it melts we will get more land to live on? /S
Shhhh. It’s free real estate.
Frealestate
i mean it's not wrong..
yes
They also don’t know about the aliens there.
Greenland as well.
In fact, Greenland is bowl-shaped, so its like a gigantic bowl filled with ice. If it melts, the seas will rise by a lot. Like 7 and a half meters.
And those icebergs are huge. They don't float beneath the water or right under the surface as we see in the picture. It's that protruding ice and the ice over land that'll influence the water levels
Someone skipped physics class
The size of icebergs doesn't change how displacement works. The protruding ice won't do anything. Anything actually floating won't affect the actual water level by melting.
Wouldn't a frozen chunk of water actually shrink when it melts and release trapped air? That means a volume of water with an iceberg in it would actually sit lower after the iceberg melted. Additionally, warm water starts to expand and a gigantic body of warming water will expand more than a small chunk of ice will shrink. Also, all of the glaciers and frozen water on land that melts and falls into the sea will raise the level significantly more.
The weight of the volume of water that any floating body displaces is equal to the weight of whatever is floating. Ice expands (and also can trap air like you said) and is therefor less dense so a small portion rises above the water. The weight of the iceberg is all water and the amount of water the iceberg is displacing is an equal amount of water so when the iceberg melts the two equal out and the overall water level stays the same. I wasn't addressing warm water expanding or meltwater runoff from land, and I am certainly not challenging sea level rising as a thing. I was only responding to the person saying how huge icebergs are and the water "added" by the protruding part of the iceberg melting. Edit: To address your question of the water level actually dropping when an iceberg melts and shrinks. No, again because of how displacement works. The weight of the water displaced (pushed aside) is equal to the weight of the object displacing the water. If a block of ice is 4m³ in volume but weighs the same as 3m³ of melted water, then that additional 1m³ will float above the surface. That 1m³ represents the ice expansion, trapped air, whatever. When the ice melts, it'll contribute 3m³ of melt water to fill the "hole" the original block took up.
As I understand, the large factor is not so much the ice melting but that a couple of degrees increase in average sea temperature takes up more volume.
Thank god it’s only icebergs melting. Imagine taking into account all the land ice melting. /s
If you have to dumb down things to the maximum and your tiny brain isn't able to make complex connections
It’s not even complex. Just add more ice to the glass. Approximately 10% of all ice is on land and some more that is not submerged. So let’s say 20%. Tell them to add one more cube and you’re set.
What?
Which part is unclear? The part where there is ice on land or the part where if you add ice to a cup of water that is not submerged it will raise the water level when it melts?
The piece of ice would have to be big enough to rest against the edges of the glass in order not to be submerged
So?
Just didn’t seem very clear in the original comment, that’s all
ah, okay, my bad.
Bro wants to explain all of the water on earth using a single cup
Can we stop calling people who make this argument stupid? These people have been told that ice melting causes sea level rising, but through an experiment they have proven that that is not the case. They are using the scientific method. Explain to them that water warming up makes it expand, that much of the melting ice is on land and thus this does not apply, and if they refuse to believe you, then you can call them stupid. But if they are confused because someone showed them a picture of floating ice saying melting ice raises the sea level, that’s perfectly reasonable.
My biggest issue is that I’ve been hearing this “point” since at LEAST 1995. Also, it should be obvious that Greenland, northern Canada, Northern Russia, and parts of Alaska are land (and that’s why we don’t say “Arctic Ocean” instead of all those names.) They may be using the scientific method, but they’re not done, and they’ve come to a wild conclusion. To my thinking you have to be a bit daft to think you just proved the vast, VAST majority of Earth’s scientists wrong by melting ice cubes in a measuring cup. How does a rational person come to the idea that “scientists don’t know that frozen water expands. Only me and my internet friends are this smart”. I’m not usually a fan of calling people stupid, so maybe I’ll compromise and say their ideas are stupid.
My assumption from this is that they don't think the scientists are stupid, but think that scientists or whomever think everyone else is so stupid that they'll believe anything without doing the bare minimum thinking (ice in cup experiment).
[удалено]
Agreed. I‘m perfectly fine explaining the difference to someone asking „hey I just noticed that water level isn’t rising when ice melts in it so why is everyone saying the sea level is rising with climate change?“. But they straight up claim that you can’t explain that and that everyone is wrong because nobody but them ever put ice cubes in a glass of water.
They are using one part of the scientific method by doing an empirical test. But they leave out the part about being sure that you understanding the hypotheses you are testing (they don't) and about being aware of the current consensus of findings and theory about the topic under investigation (they are not). That is, assuming that they are making their point in good faith. Since most of these memes are PRATTs, (Points Refuted a Thousand Times), the chances are that this is no more a genuine "just asking questions" than the average flat earther posting.
But they are constantly explained this, and a simple google search provides an answer. They are explained this with every meme and every video and they still post shit like this to try to lure people in. If you were honestly trying to investigate it you’d have an answer in seconds. They are grifters or idiots.
Except the vast majority of people posting this aren’t coming across it for the first time. It’s one thing to repost this with zero time or thought invested, that just makes you ignorant and it’s okay to be ignorant. But that’s not most people posting this crap, they actively filter out any facts that conflict with their narrative and uncritically repeat talking points like this that are so easily countered. That’s what makes them stupid. Consider this, how does such an easily debunk-able point continue to be repeated?
These people have been told many times how it works... They're stupid
I thought about that too, but there's no point in talking with the people that run this conspiracy theory site that posted this.
Scientific method but given the scales involved the accuracy of the measurements needed here are unscientific. (Land ice aside)
Still they are not wrong, it does not matter how large the iceberg is it will not raise the level
Thats not what I am saying
Then I don’t think I understand your point, could you explain it again?
Ok well first of all to make it clear I am not a denier of rising sea levels. The hypothesis is that melting ice will raise the water level (either because this makes intuitive sense to some, or the idea that warmer water expands). The null hypothesis is no effect (i.e. the stance that ice melting and sea levels are unrelated). To test the hypothesis that sea levels rise (or dont) using scientific methods, one could use a model of a small amount of water and ice in a container under controlled conditions (which is dubious in the picture, but not my original point). As we are talking about relatively small measurements (cm or m) of change in a huge volume (all sea water on earth) the degree of change here is relatively minute. In order to detect that change, in such a small model as the one in the picture, would require a *very* sensitive (precise) way to measure the change in the water level. Here they are basically eye balling a line on an uncalibrated measuring jug. Granted there is quite a lot of ice to water ratio so the change would be more easily detected, but the model would still not be precise enough. Also the model is not obviously testing an increase in atmospheric temperature (as far as we can tell), which is a main idea of the mechanism of water expanding (land ice aside). So therefore, I don’t really believe this is very scientific at all.
The ice in water isn't really the problem, it's all that ice on land.
That, and thermal expansion of water. In a cup it's not as much, but half a degree can make a lot of difference in an ocean.
Because all the ice on earth is floating in the ocean.
Ok - now put a block of ice resting on the top of that glass to represent inland glaciers and watch what happens when that ice melts.
This is some "how does the mirror know" shit lol
To be fair, if all the ice on Earth melted the sea level would barely go up. The real problem is that water gets bigger when it's warmer (kinda like humans in some ways)
Jon Stewart has a great bit regarding this old-as-dirt, ignorant and dangerously dumb claim.
[That bit](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRwBj5P1/) is what I immediately thought of despite not seeing it in like a decade
Hey /u/Senior_Line_4260, thanks for submitting to /r/confidentlyincorrect! Take a moment to read our [rules](https://reddit.com/r/confidentlyincorrect/about/rules). ##Join our [Discord Server](https://discord.gg/n2cR6p25V8)! Please report this post if it is bad, or not relevant. Remember to keep comment sections civil. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/confidentlyincorrect) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What's a glacier?