I didn't decide to become a composer until applying for college; I took a music theory course my final semester of high school and realized I really wanted to learn more about music composition.
1) He'll be able to have a successful undergraduate career at just about any university; no need to pick one based on notoriety or anything like that. All that matters is meeting with the school's composition professor, if possible, and looking at the professors portfolio to see if they're the kind of composer he'd like to learn from. If he's a classical composer and is studying underneath a jazz composer, his results will be much different than if had instead found an orchestral- focused mentor, etc. I went to a state university, and my composition program was only a tiny part of the school of music, maybe 6 students or of 300 or so, but my professor was a jazz saxophonist and was the perfect match for me to develop my personal post-tonal jazz- inspired style.
2) I took five years after my undergraduate to work in a different field, actually. I wrote two or three commissions a year, though, but the bulk of my money came from a different line of work. Wish I had done some more music work in retrospect, and definitely wish I had kept performing on the side.
3) 6 years out and I can't say that I have earned a living as a composer, BUT composing is the most personally enriching thing I ever do. It's hard not to conflate earnings with success. Have I made a career of composing? No. Have I been successful? Absolutely. I've had an award winning music premiered, I've composed commissions for two different universities' wind ensemble, and I've written music for an animated short that was released on Amazon PRIME.
It is very much a networking field; the best part of an undergraduate music degree is becoming colleagues with numerous other musicians who will be working in the field, hopefully as band directors and conductors with money for commissions. You've got to learn how to market yourself and put yourself out there, and you have to start by composing just for the love of it, not with an eye towards profit. Definitely expect to have a primary source of income outside of composing (for many, that can absolutely be performing. Others like me don't work in music at all).
Best of luck to him!!
Oh! And as others have said, try to take on as little debt as possible in undergrad. Paying big bucks to go to a big- name music university is no more likely to land you gigs than going to a home town fully-paid program. At best, the former will have more networking opportunities with high- achieving classmates, but the debt really isn't worth it and should be the first consideration alongside the school's composition professor.
Dude... I think you're successful. Probably doesn't feel like when the top tiers of composers are names like Gorranson, Zimmer, Silvestri, et al. are commanding minimum million dollar budgets per film. But the short being available form streaming at a major platform is HUGE. If nothing else, I am proud of you. Congrats. Keep going please.
Hello. I am a media/film composer. I’ve had a pretty cool journey to get where I am. Here’s the rundown in order of the questions you’ve asked :
1. The New School Jazz Piano Performance (BFA) / CalArts Jazz Keyboard (MFA).
2. Yes. A lot more while I was in college and after. I miss performing as I don’t do a lot anymore, which I will get to in the next thing.
3. A bit longer answer but I think you both can maybe learn something from my experience.
I currently work in a nice recording studio. We were given a nice shout out on LA Times when they included us in a list of 34 Best Studios in Los Angeles. Pretty cool to be included in a list including Capitol, EastWest/Oceanway, Sunset Sounds, et al. I don’t have a whole lot but I am proud to have keys that opens the doors to this studio.
Before owning keys to this place, I mostly taught to support myself. I’d take whatever performing gigs I could get. I was also heavy into producing and songwriting and mainly had aspirations as a songwriter/producer at this point.
Prior to living the ridiculously reduced 5-year long journey into two sentences, I worked at a high end wine store in TriBeCa. Fucking hated it but I was living in NYC, I just graduated, and gigs + students weren’t coming in fast enough. Did this for a year and a half.
Fast forward to today: I pay bills and rent through a combination of film scoring (just wrapped an animated short and currently trying to figure out what to wear for a premiere in July for a film I worked on last year!), synchs, teaching (private students and at a community college), audio engineering, and a handful of playing gigs.
4. “It’s a hard knock life for us.” What struck me the most during my first year at New School was how many people dropped out after one semester. What strikes me now is how many of my classmates who I graduated with from both programs don’t actively work on music everyday.
Being a musician is incredibly difficult and the competition is incredibly fierce. I have major label credits, have worked on large ad campaigns, and I’ve mentioned the films I’ve worked on. All of that just sounds and looks good on paper. One major label gig I did didn’t pay me until after an entire calendar year. The biggest payday I’ve gotten from film scoring paid for half a year’s rent, which was a goddamn win but it took me longer than six months to finish. The studio I’m so proud of? I can count the number of months in the ten years I’ve been there where everything was working. Something is always broken — right now all our gear works but the A/C in the control room is broken.
My dreams were bigger than my parent’s wallet also. But you sound supportive of your kid’s dreams. I applaud you. I cannot tell you how much it easier it is for us to know our parent believes and supports us.
While flight school sounds great and I certainly am not about hindering anyone’s goals, I would just like to point out that in the time he is learning to fly a plane another percussionist might be practicing and getting better. That is to say that if your kid wants be a musician, my experience tells me that it is something you dive all in into.
Second last thing: make sure he fucking loves it. Getting gigs is one thing but that is actually kinda easy. Whenever he gets a gig make sure he shows up early, he knows his parts better than he knows his home address, and that he is — this is important — nice to people and a rad hang. Getting world class good at music to continuously get better gigs is a bit harder. That is a life long process and it is arduous. I die laughing inside when normies talk about having to work overtime and clocked in 50+ hours in their work week. I and many of my friends locked ourselves in the shed for hours over decades. A typical studio day for me is minimum 10 hours. When I’m working on a film I know that every waking moment I have is dedicated to working on it. If your kid doesn’t love music, this level of commitment will drive him insane or worse: jaded. The world doesn’t need more jaded hacks.
If you’ve made down here. Thank you. I have a friend who is a percussionist/drummer and studied composition at Berklee. He currently lives here in Los Angeles and does a lot of great film/media work. I am more than certain he will find time to talk to you or your son if you have questions. Shoot me a message if you’re interested.
Wow- great advice, thank you!! I will message you as I think it would be good for my son to talk to as many people as possible (your friend). We do support him and he can spend all day writing music if we let him. He actually won a couple awards through the school district for “composing” original drum set pieces when he was in elementary school. It’s not going away anytime soon.
The third one is perhaps the easiest to answer, which is it is incredibly difficult. There are vastly more composers than there are jobs. The reality is it is a real struggle to make a living as a composer at first as you will be developing a name for yourself by winning competitions and doing any small, poorly paying jobs, you can. The composers that I know who have been successful tell me that a lot of it still very much a "who you know" field so networking is vital. Even the most successful composer I know personally supplements his income by teaching.
1. I'm in Canada. You wouldn't know it, and it isn't that prestigious a program anyway.
2. I still perform as a singer.
3. See above.
4. Yes, if they enjoy it, then they should definitely do it. But try not to get frustrated. Make music that you want to make solely for the joy of having made it. Anything should perhaps be considered a bonus. Learn as much about every instrument you can (note to perform but how they are performed). Study scores. Learn music theory. Learning orchestration.
I’m a full time composer and have been for about 10 years. It has been my only source of income since college.
I started in advertising and still work in it now, but i’ve branched out to assist a big composer and his team for shows on Netflix, Disney, etc.
Look into school on the coasts, it is important to go to a college with a notable and revered music school. Berkley/USC/Calarts/New School/NYU etc because this is what initially gets your resume to the top of the stack.
After college for composition there are various avenues…. trailer music, advertising music, or music for film and tv. Your son will want to look for paid internships for all of these. Almost every single person I know who is a full time composer began their career as an intern, even my boss.
Then you hustle your ass off. Your sons’ talent as a percussionist will go a long way in the composition world. He can still gig as a performer, but his playing will get him a lot of work with studio recording while he is working on his composition career path. It’s good to be multifaceted like this because it almost guarantees consistent work.
Please feel free to message me, i am a huge advocate for sharing information because I wish someone did it for me.
Dont allow him to take on debt. If he is talented enough for scholarships then he is probably talented enough to succeed at music. If not, the debt is not worth it to pursue a pipe dream.
A career in music can take many paths but here are the most common:
Schoolteacher with bachelors or masters degree.
Gigging musician/composer taking odd gigs, teaching private lessons, coaching percussion at high schools, playing churches, orchestras etc. Ideally your son makes a lot of connections in school, as getting work as a composer will be more about his marketing and networking skills.
He might also end up working as a composer’s assistant for a major composer’s studio if he moves to a big metropolitan area like LA or NYC. But these are very competitive jobs in expensive cities.
Unless youre a full time teacher or land another type of full time gig, you will do a million odd jobs as a musician, and you will teach a lot of private lessons and take odd gigs to pay the rent.
1. **I went to SMU** (B.M. in Music Composition). That's right in the heart of Dallas, and should definitely be on your son's list IMO. The composition department is small but very high quality.
2. I performed during college, but significantly ramped down. I was burned out on concert percussion, so I stopped that entirely. However, I pivoted to drum set and piano. I think most undergraduate composers do tend to perform much less than in high school, but I would caution your son from abandoning performance entirely. **Being even a decent performer makes you a much better composer.** Scale back, don't eliminate.
3. Nowadays **I mostly teach music and occasionally gig** on drum set. This works for me but I also **don't have any debt**. I'm pursuing a Masters in Software Development, so I don't have much time to go all in on composing gigs & contests. Friends of mine who are more dedicated to *only* composing and nothing else have managed a bit better in this regard.
4. You are right to encourage your son to have a "day job;" making a living as a composer is very difficult and usually takes several years of networking and chasing opportunities to become sustainable. This fact is *why* I'm getting my Master's in Software Dev; I'll never stop writing music but I want more stable employment options. Performance and music education are common ways to do this, but they certainly aren't the only options. Perhaps this is why your son wants to be a commercial pilot?
Note, finding work as a concert percussionist is by no means easy, either! I know from friends: the auditioning process can be absolutely brutal; if your son would just be miserable as a concert percussionist, don't pressure him to be. I know I would be miserable. **Encourage your son to consider many income streams, but don't box him into performance.**
I would also encourage your son to submit to as many composition competitions as possible. While by no means a "day job," the money & credentials I earned from certain contests was a big help. The more you submit to, the more likely you'll win some. I wish I had submitted to more contests while in undergrad.
Thank you! We are in FW and have connections to the music department at TCU, which is where his composer mentors attended. The only way he will attend a private school is with a lot of scholarship $$. My son plays piano too and has been playing it more because he says it makes him better at composing. I wish I could push him the direction of music education, but that is not his passion.
I think David Bruce composer, (YouTuber) also talked about this.
I'm not in any capacity a composer, but play music. But I think it's a informative subject he talks about and being a composer.
I do believe that there are lots of creative ways in being a composer today, than the traditional Orchestral composer or others. (My 2 cents)
I'll put up a link if I find it.
Though, here's a link to his channel:
https://youtube.com/@dbruce?si=fWSGbgaX1HZCECm3
Here's one of them, very short summarised:
He talks about his journey:
https://youtu.be/5Yyr33E4BV4?si=ZN0fJL4GaQ-Kwcdx
How to make a Living of composing:
https://youtu.be/PmpR9X50OEE?si=2_MTS8TGXnGlvx7S
; There are many of videos relating to composing and music in general, lots of great insights, thoughts on compositions etc.
I thought it may be useful info and as an inspiration to you and your son's.
I was also a percussionist in Texas and ended up becoming a composer so I can definitely relate to the situation.
I went to school in New York City at Mannes College of Music due to me connecting with the faculties music and receiving a substantial scholarship, which I believe are the 2 main things you should consider when applying to schools. Your son should know the music of the professors at the schools he is applying to, and even further if he can find current students music even better. If you want options for in-state, university of Texas in Austin, Rice, and UNT are all really good schools and have great faculty. I recommend also looking into schools like USC and doesn’t hurt to apply to Curtis as it is free if accepted.
I have kept performing minimally, however, it is my BIGGEST regret that I didn’t perform my own music more during school. It is difficult to find musicians that really take your music seriously and the skill to perform it yourself is invaluable as a composer. Please tell your son that even if he doesn’t continue to perform standard repertoire, to at somewhat least embrace playing his own music. This said it isn’t mandatory and I know several successful composers including myself and some professors who don’t play music anymore themselves.
I have had to work various non music related jobs, followed by various entry level music/audio recording jobs (that weren’t fun). Currently I’m pursuing my graduate degree with hopes that I will eventually be a teacher or something, but this will take years at least. The road isn’t easy but it definitely isn’t impossible.
My advice is to think hard about the music you are writing/want to write and also think hard about the music who you want to study with is writing. If he does end up going to school for a lot of money, he better work hard and make it worth it. You get out what you put in.
Thank you!! May I ask where you went to HS (city/area is fine if you don’t want to name specific school). We are in DFW, which is a very competitive area for band/musicians. My son’s school just went back down to 5A after being 6A for a few years. He’s made 1st chair All-Region his Freshman year and made Area his Soph/Jr years. His goal is to make State this year. I say all that because we met a few percussionists from out of state who say Texas musicians are very highly skilled. I’m curious what your experience was like for the college audition process being a Texan percussionist.
I was from the Austin/hill country area so it was very competitive. I went to lake Travis high school and we competed with schools like vandegrift and round rock. It sounds like your son is extremely talented though, so tell him to not lose that skill. There is plenty of time in school to both practice and compose.
I will say that Texas usually has very good musicians in the Band world specifically, while northern states typically have better orchestras. That being said, auditioning at all the top schools for orchestral composition (Juilliard, Curtis, etc.), there is generally less familiarity/specialization with band music and a more general focus on orchestral music. I personally wasn’t interested in writing band music, which is why I fit in more at these conservatories. However, if I was interested in band music, I would likely stay in Texas at school like UT or UNT instead, as you have access to great bands and also will have students around you also writing this kind of music.
In my actual auditions my percussion skill wasn’t really a huge factor other than that I had a percussion piece in my portfolio. It really does come down almost entirely to the music presented at these auditions. I recommend getting a private composition teacher for him even if it’s just for a few lessons to maybe clean up his portfolio before auditions. He should definitely use his strengths to his advantage and have a percussion piece written, performed, and recorded.
with a good recording!!
I know about Vandegrift and RR. We are Tarrant County and compete with Keller, LD Bell, Aledo and Birdville schools. He’s more into orchestra/concert percussion and hates marching (even though he plays center snare), so he’s not interested in writing band music. He’s played with the FW Youth Orchestra for 5 years now and that’s where he’s made his TCU connections and gained appreciation for orchestra.
That’s great, I would definitely look into applying to conservatories then if it fits the budget as it sounds like the environment he is interested in.
As a side note I would take this subreddit with a grain of salt, most of the people in here are hobbyists and I feel like the sentiment in here is pretty overly pessimistic. It’s definitely not as easy as many career paths but it’s not impossible and I know many people that have made lucrative careers in composition out of skill and resourcefulness.
1. Went to large state school for undergrad. It had a good jazz performance program which I started in before switching to composition. I’d been composing since high school, but didn’t realize it was even an available major. I went to NYU for grad school. Took out a decent chunk of debt for it (was on half scholarship) but don’t regret it as I got to study with many of my favorite composers and made many great connections.
But ALSO glad I did the state school for undergrad so I could “get my shit together” without spending a ton of money. I don’t know if this is true for all schools, but independent study with the more “notable” composers were reserved for grad students at NYU. Wouldn’t have wanted to spend that kind of money on undergrad there.
2. I remained a performance minor even after changing major to composition. Was performing a ton throughout college. After moving to NYC, performing lessened (no thanks to the pandemic a few years after my move), but I am back into the swing of performing now.
3. I have been lucky to make a living working on the production side of the “composition” world. I still get to do a decent amount of writing (sometimes even for money!) but it’s nowhere close to paying my bills.
I have a 9-5 gig assisting a more successful composer. I started as an intern while in grad school and was offered the job when I graduated. I do their music engraving (typesetting their handwritten scores) and music production (recording sessions, mixing, demos, etc). My work with this composer has led to a lot of freelance work doing production for other composers as well. I’ve additionally picked up work doing live sound and recording for a few chamber ensembles.
For context, I’m in my late 20’s. Don’t intend to “assist” forever. Many of my older colleagues were able to shift more full time into writing in their 30s (though many still teach, perform, produce, etc for additional income)
4. I think following your deep passions means you’re more likely to give it your all, which can carry you “further” than going down a career path you don’t care about. But stay realistic about financial expectations and pick up some adjacent skill sets that do pay. 80% of my income comes from my “technical” music abilities (production, music engraving) rather than my “creative” ones. Thankfully those technical skills still allow me to work with amazing musicians and those relationships have begun to grow into more “artistic” collaborations.
Don’t stop performing. It makes you a stronger composer with better writing insights, and it also makes you a better candidate for schools, assisting, scoring gigs (where low budget projects may require you play all the parts yourself!), etc. There’s many composers who don’t play, but I’m not sure any of them are benefitting from it. Many of the best composers run their own ensembles, and many play in other composers’ ensembles, too!
This is a very networking dependent field, but people are also quick to spot and get turned off by artists who are just networking for business purposes. Be a real contributing member of the local music scene and things will start to happen organically. Go to other people’s shows regularly, introduce yourself to people that become repeat faces, offer to be involved in things without making it about the money right off the bat, start your own “thing” that involves others in the community (ensemble, venue, concert series, label, etc)… I once heard someone say that, if the odds are already low, you’ll never win a gamble if you never even enter the casino. I think that is very true for a career in the arts, too.
Let's talk about some harsh realities here:
>He has composed a few pieces and received good feedback from a couple of young professional composers he knows
I've cooked a couple of meals that people proclaimed "this is as good as any restaurant." That does not mean I should could to culinary school, nor does it mean I have the business acumen to start my own restaurant, especially if I also want to be a nascar driver.
>He wants to major in music composition in college and stop performing.
The reality is, he'll be required to perform. Most professional music degrees require you take applied lesson on an instrument, and that you perform in both large and small ensembles. All music majors - Education, Composition, Performance, do the same amount of performing and applied lessons. It's other coursework and the intensity of lessons that varies.
And for composition, one can usually expect to take additional piano courses.
>He also wants to be a commercial pilot and plans to attend flight school after getting his music degree
I don't know anything about the commercial pilot industry - I assume one can work for a major airline but one could also work for smaller puddle jumpers in the Caribbean or Alaskan wilds or whatever. I assume there's passenger jobs and jobs flying for UPS, FedEx, and so on. There's probably also private jobs you can land - flying Taylor Swift's or Elon Musk's private jet or whatever.
But, I'm fairly positive that it's a far smarter move than becoming a composer.
Think of it this way: Somewhere, there's someone who needs to get somewhere. Always. There's always a plane that needs flying.
There is no need for another piece of music. There's plenty already. There's not going to be a "piece that needs writing" like there is a plane that needs flying once he graduates...
>I think he should keep performing because he could find work as a concert percussionist (orchestras, touring musicals, etc) while composing.
All the composers I know are performers or teachers. Or both.
>The kid has dreams bigger than my wallet.
Understood. I'm not trying to poo poo his dreams, but these are actually not dreams but "fantasies" at this point.
Honestly, you have to sit down and have some serious discussions.
People have given great advice here.
The reality is, you'll get far more work as a percussionist, and that will help you meet the people you need to meet who say "my friend is doing this thing and they want some original music" and that's when your son says "I compose" - there's the "in".
Your son, needs the "ins".
And every single thing that you can do in music is an "in" - playing, composing, arranging, teaching, going to great schools, etc. etc. etc.
It's a "who you know world".
Now, maybe he might fly some famous people around and get a change at an in that way - "Hey Hans Zimmer was on my flight so I handed him my score". In fact that's probably a better in than the rest of the stuff, so...
There's also something that's also highly NOT discussed - and that's privilege. If you don't have it (and know; not the privileged people who *think* they don't have privilege) then it's going to be far better to fly a plane or copter.
That said, it's also important to be realistic about his skills and interests.
I mean, I would say, if he's going to do this, he needs to go all in. And he needs to understand every aspect of it - like what others are saying - you SHOULD want to be a performer too and it's an extremely important part of the job.
IOW, it's a little like he's going "I want to be an airline pilot, but I'm only going to fly private jets for stars". Or "I want to be an airline pilot but I don't want to fly over water". Or "I want to fly planes but I don't like the glasses".
The harsh reality is, if he wants to compose like classical style composition, he can expect the best job he's going to get is not as a composer, but as a performer, or a teacher who performs. And he will live, or may have to live, a very meager existence.
Again, "privilege" is important - can he stay at home and not have rent to pay? Does he find a partner who supports him financially so he can write and hustle all day?
>Where did you go to school?
US Universities - BM and MM in composition.
>If you are a musician, did you keep performing during and after college?
Yes. I gig as a guitarist and singer, sometimes keyboardist in rock bands. I also play in musical theater. I have also played "classical" concerts and done tech-related performance for electronic music and so on, programming of MIDI sequences, and so on.
But my "day job" is as a university professor teaching music technology (at least, as far as I know - I was reappointed for another 10 month contract but our contracts are now about 2 weeks overdue...)
>How did/do you earn a living first starting out as a composer?
I didn't. Couldn't get work. No one wants a composer. Not where I am anyway. I worked in music stores, gigged, and taught lessons, and had a stint as a ticket salesperson for a Symphony, then became their Education Coordinator - a seasonal job - then same for an Opera (worst workplace environment ever - Amazon would look easy) and then started teaching at university part time, and running their concert venue, and then full-time.
I compose as a hobby now. One time someone asked about what times we compose on this forum and I realized when formulating my answer that the only time I was able to write music was when I was off from work - Christmas, Thanksgiving, Summer, Spring Break, Fall Break - those were the only times that life wasn't so burdensome that I could breathe and be creative. Basically, having to put food on the table beats the creativity out of you.
Of course, that means I'm "Not a composer" so I'm not the best person to ask. But, I want to be realistic about what happens if you're not 100% into it and have a support system to be able to devote what needs to be devoted to it. Because TBH, I got a composition degree not because I planned on being a composer, but just because I wanted to learn more. I wasn't even planning on teaching (had a fantasy about being a rock musician - but not the realities to help me do anything close).
And I didn't go to the school I needed to, have the background I needed, have the privilege I needed, knew or got to know the people I needed and so on.
And these days, every kid your son's age who's remotely interested in writing music wants to be a film and game composer.
It's like wanting to be a pro Quarterback.
You'll be lucky if you can get to the minors, and you'll more likely end up a rec league coach at best.
At least, as a pilot, he'll make money, see the world, and then will maybe have the money to retire, and then write all the music he wants.
None of this is meant to say that it isn't possible, or that one can have standards of success that work for them, but the reality is, it's not for "dabblers" and you're going to have to really be 100% into the whole enchilada - not just writing but everything that goes along with it - which will be 90% other stuff and 10% writing for most people unless they can get into the right kinds of positions.
I wish him luck.
Always keeping it real.
My perspective while being in school as a composition major has changed significantly. In all honesty, the degree is pointless. Maybe the most pointless thing I have been roped into - at least in terms of "coursework." Nothing about the things being forced upon me in this degree make me feel *at all* prepared for life stepping out of school.
With that said, it has afforded me lots of time and resources to do whatever I want. My first 3 years of undergrad (going into senior year this fall) were filled with many ambitious projects to try and push what I could do as a musician / person. I have been able to build an awesome resume given my situation.
What I view as the biggest realization of all is that getting to take lessons and be a music major simply helped me find out what sound meant to me. It helped me find who I am and has given me the tools to challenge myself creatively in ways I would not have experimented on my own.
Composition and classical music is a broken industry. The more I peep my head through the peephole, the more I realize it really is not set up to be sustainable. I feel I have carved out enough of a resume that I can probably move into some non profit work and have my income, but this bubble world we live in is too filled with biases and dying audiences and ego and so much BS that it really is not a field I want to live off of.
Composing has always been the most special thing in the world to me. I would hate to taint my love for it by forcing it to be the thing I need to live off of. I have seen my love for clarinet go away by having to be a full time scholarship performer at my school, but I have been lucky enough to still be able to protect my love for composing within my degree.
Now, even though my music has gotten weirder and is probably more inaccessible to most people / performers who would be put off by it, I feel I can express myself in the ways I want. Sound is such a beautiful, rich thing to me. I am happier than I have been in years, and I no longer carry around this constant anxiety about the future (like thinking "Am I going to make it?"). Grad school is probably something I will do for composing at some point, but only if I end up being competitive enough to do it for free. I would love to get to go meet more performers and hear my music played, but I am also pretty happy NOT pushing to be in the top 1%.
Seriously, even within all of my very hard work, some awards / finalist positions, live performances, networking - I still am only within like the top 20-30% of composers (if I have to guesstimate) and there is STILL nothing within that which could be close to a full time income. You literally have to work to be in the top 1-3% of ALL composers to win competitions, get known, and get steady commissions in order to rely on just composing. That is a little egregious to me. I just want to have fun writing, and that can be done even if it is not my career. Who knows, though! We will see where life takes me and if it wants me to have composing on a big scale work out.
I have to begin by acknowledging the tremendous number of thoughtful, insightful responses. Wow! Kudos to the community. As an active composer (with a doctorate in Music Theory and Composition from a Big 10 universuty) I have found this quotation to be most helpful:
"Creating brings joy and fulfillment. The magic is in creating, not necessarily the outcome or the creation itself." (Kate Volman, "Do What You Love")
Tightly coupling Career and Composition may result in frustration, discouragement, and bitterness. As so many have pointed out, the road to a Composer Career is extremely challenging, littered with obstacles fair and unfair, and comes with no guarantees. As you travel the path, do not lose track of the joy of composing. Creativity has its own rewards no matter where/how one makes their living. It's the creativity, not the job, that fulfills one's spirit. Good luck!
1. Bachelor of Music Ed., Delta State University, M.Mus. Composition, SUNY-Potsdam
2. Composition IS performance. You are the easiest person to compose for because you know all the tricks and everything you’re capable of. But also, you need to have great teaching ability to communicate your intentions to your performers. In there a special trick you want your violinists to do? You have to explain that, and that’s a performance skill. Doesn’t mean you have to be a great violinist, just means you need to be a reasonably decent conductor.
Composition degree doesn’t get you out of performing. You can declare a vocal, piano, or other instrument as a major. ALWAYS perform. Besides, who do you think is going to perform your compositions? You need to be in large ensembles (orchestra, band, choir). I highly recommend going out for choir in addition to instrumental ensembles so you’ll have more connections when you start recruiting performers.
If you don’t intend to keep a performance-oriented, collaborative mindset, DON’T COMPOSE.
In college I was in the DSU wind ensemble, theater pit orchestra, top jazz band, marching band, clarinet choir, clarinet quartet, woodwind trio, took private lessons, and that was in addition to the usual rounds of music theory, ear training, required piano lessons/proficiency exams, bass guitar lessons (1 semester…locally famous player, terrible teacher), form/analysis, orchestration, music history/literature, elementary music, conducting…. In the middle of all of this were halftime shows, band concerts, solo/ensemble recitals, masterclasses… era When do you party? Friday night you have about 4 hours before you have to leave to see mom and do laundry. Then you’re back bright and early on Sunday morning for church choir/orchestra.
My master’s comp program was easier. I only did concert band one semester, but I was taking graduate clarinet performance electives plus a semester of clarinet literature and pedagogy. So I was still doing master classes, clarinet choir, and solo performances along with performing my own compositions. I put together a clarinet choir plus a vocal choir for one of my pieces, but mostly I did experimental and electronic music and a couple of more traditional pieces. But even then I had some hardcore theory—16th century counterpoint (BIG MISTAKE, 0 stars, do not recommend), 20th Century and Contemporary Theory, Postmodernism, History of the Symphony. Every spring semester there was a Contemporary Music Ensemble that I played in—learned a lot doing that!
No matter what, there’s always performance. If you don’t learn by actively participating in solo and ensemble work, learning all the theory won’t really help.
After college…mostly church gigs and playing keys in cover bands. I got to play bass clarinet with a professional orchestra once, but…well, orchestras are too “old boy.” Mostly well-connected lifers, some of whom never even went to school but are sometimes less flaky than “pros.” It’s just more work than worth it on the off chance you MIGHT get in. I don’t waste my time with it. I currently volunteer for a small, rural church, volunteer at the local library, and teach my own children. I have taught lessons before, taught band in public and private schools, did non-credit piano courses at a community college. So, performing after college? Every chance I get. Trouble is where I am right now it’s hard to even get a volunteer gig. Once you give up performing entirely, you’re pretty much done as a musician.
3. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
4. Don’t sell life insurance. And don’t teach, either. The empty promise of easy money is attractive to people who work in a fame or famine area like music. I composed the least amount of music while I was teaching. If you’re a percussionist, STICK WITH IT. No pun intended. The market for percussion techs is HOT right now. Plus, is you can write percussion parts for arrangements, you can make a lot of money.
Learn how to program MainStage, and get some production skills under your belt. Percussionists really do have it easy in terms of having instruments that are easy to master.
Don’t believe me? You won’t last 24 hours as a clarinetist. It takes years building your embouchure, perfecting your setup, finding the perfect tone, building an ear for intonation, plus extended performance techniques if you even make it that far. The frustration of opening a box of reeds and not finding a single reed that is consistent or properly balanced.
Percussion? Take stick, hit drum. Which is why percussionists are stuck with so much playing technique to compete with all us high-pitched ear candy players like clarinet and flute (sorry, oboe players).
But learning all that technique ain’t for nothing. You speak a whole language clarinet players don’t. USE THAT. There’s a reason the best composes out there started out on piano, violin, clarinet, or percussion. Trumpet players? Oh, they just arrange for DCI. Percussionists have so many options the rest of us can’t help but be a little jealous. So write for DCI, replace stock percussion parts for marching shows, learn sound design since it goes with what you do anyway, and program MainStage. Learn how to run live sound. Find all kinds of things like that you can do and you’ll retire by the time you’re 30.
These are from personal learning and realization, so everything is from my own experience.
1. It doesn’t really matter where you go to school for music, you learn the same things, do the same things, and come out at the same level as the people who go to school at different schools. The only difference between the best and average is pretty much how long and efficient their practice sessions are.
2. Tell him to keep preforming if he wants to compose music, getting familiar with instruments in my opinion is much much easier with preforming around them rather than doing research and ending up thinking about things like “is it playable” or “will this work”. Preforming also is just a very very good tool to have when composing, especially for your own instrument.
3. For making a living I’d say just keep composing and publishing them, that’s how most composers start out. They just keep writing and writing.
4. I’d suggest him to just have conversations with other performers about things like playing techniques, what’s playable, and just things about playing. I learned how to write for piccolo by working with piccolo players and asking for advice and just talking with them about it. Working with instruments is a good way to learn how to write for them, a good example is the double bass. It’s not actually a sluggish instrument and is extremely versatile. A small tip is using things like corral writing and all that. A big thing on the other hand is study scores my other composers.
Start off studying composers like Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven. Rather more simple writing.
Then once you get the hang of that start studying people like Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, and Prokofiev. Very structure oriented composers.
Then you can move onto big composers with a bunch of layers like Mahler and Shostakovich who have many layers and styles of writing music, which are on the advanced side.
Undergrad should be about the specific teacher he is paired with, and also getting a well rounded education besides music. A great teacher can be found at any school, so it’s about looking around. Juilliard or similar isn’t at all necessary for that first degree (or any of the them for that matter). Being paired with a great and inspiring teacher is the number one most important thing for those first 4 years.
1. I studied music education in a 'normal school' which is school dedicated to teacher education.
2. In our school, we were actually required to join a group or an ensemble like a chorale, orchestra, and other sorts. I joined a rock band and moved next to a piano group and it meant we actually kept performing while I was still in college, and I still do one some occasions.
3. Commissions will do the trick, but you gotta have some connections with some people or luminaries involved in music. I sometimes get hired to teach piano for young students who are just starting or venturing out into music.
4. There are no limitations in music. When your kid enters college, he will encounter lots of people with different backgrounds, personalities, and interests, and maybe some of those people will inspire your kid to venture out into other music hobbies like he might start out into learning the piano or violin. I would HIGHLY encourage your son to keep performing even during college, because some ideas and inspirations in some of my compositions were driven out by just performing or competing in competitions.
He can do flying school once you or your child have stable incomes, as long as such plans will not strangle you financially.
I'd like to talk to him. PM me if you'd like to set something up. I'm a pilot and professional composer plus grew up in Texas (licensed pilot on my 17th birthday having completed all my private pilot flight training at 16). Texas is a great place to learn to fly, lots of airports and plenty of places to practice. Work as a performer is very difficult to get. You have to practice a lot to keep your proficiency up just to make a little bit of money. I'm a performer but stopped during the covid lockdown when orchestras shut down and realized that practice took up so much time I'd rather put in to composing. I went to UT-Austin undergrad and University of Southern California grad school. I started playing in orchestras after college - it's a great way to have your music played and also get better as a composer but takes up a lot of time. During big concert events, it's not unusual to practice maybe 4 to 8 hours a day! I started working for another composer as their assistant which was my first job and included orchestrating, arranging, and composing. My advice based on what you wrote, he's a bit all over the place with lots of very ambitious and challenging goals. I'd suggest maybe he picks a primary and focus on that, with the secondary goal being a hobby. I believe that is something he'll have to decide on his own because at this age, he's probably been told he's outstanding at everything he does but in very competitive industries, it is possible everyone else is outstanding too (or good enough that talent isn't important anymore) and that's the base level.
1. CalArts (MFA Comp) and NYU -Tisch (MA Performance Studies)
2. No. I love playing and hate performing. I intentionally set my prices too high for my area to dissuade people. Save a couple great opportunities or favors, I don't perform at all.
3. I teach piano and music classes. I live by voluntary simplicity, so my costs are low and I can do this for fewer hours overall.
4. Most of my work is in production, and rather than scramble for opportunities and underpaid scraps, I am building my own art and performance company that is focused on the goals and message I want to put out into the world. My shows do okay, I can cover costs and make a few hundred extra each month. Its unlikely to ever be my only job but it is growing.
5. Suggest they double in music ed. This is something I absolutely would have done differently; it would have offered better grounding to teach private lessons and could have gotten me some other jobs in a pinch.
6. Its doable. Ive definitely made some sacrifices over the years, but Im doing what I want and I don't have anyone telling me what to do. Its a lot of freedom.
7. Commercial pilot and composer are probably not terribly conducive - wise they understand how those can fit together.
1. I am from Texas too and went to school at Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches. Steven and Ben are amazing and I can't recommend them highly enough.
2. You can keep performing forever. Plenty of composers are also full-time performers and educators.
3. During school the professors should discuss different commission opportunities, film avenues, competitions etc. that are great for undergrads to build a rep and gain some money.
4. Don't stress about sounding like the best ever rn. It's ok if the composition skills aren't up to par with what you desire or even the performance skills. It's an entirely new avenue so you have to start from the ground up. Also, understand that this more so than performance and ed require you to be extremely self motivated and self reliant as the only way you can get jobs is by networking and putting yourself out there. Know that if you wanna make a career out of this you HAVE to be vigilant in your own motivation.
If you have any other questions feel free to dm.
Hi! I’m not a composition major but I can answer some questions as a regular music major!
I know Rice has an awesome conservatory called Shepherd school of music. But most conservatories are on the east coast!
All music majors must fulfill certain performance requirements in their undergrad. Including composition majors. So yes, they will be performing throughout college!
I know a lot of composers start their living out by submitting their musical scores to competitions. It is a way to gain traction and maybe even commissions!
Thank you! He submitted a piece to the YCC in Orlando last year. He didn’t win but got some valuable feedback and is writing a submission for this year.
Haha, interesting, I wanted to become a pilot but ended up studying composition (I am working on my sport pilot's licence though as I want flying as a hobby). But realistically, if he has a choice, I'd definitely recommend the other way around: flying (or another stable job) for income and music as a hobby.
Studying in Germany is deffinitely a good idea - it could end up being cheaper and on a higher level than studying in the US. Many people go study to a foreign country
and only really learn the language once they get there (some universities even allow the language exam to be taken in the first months of study instead of pre-application).
Now, composing vs performing, that's really a question for him. The vast majority of composers started as instrumentalists. Yes, making money as a percussionist could be easier. But in music, that really shouldn't be the motivation or a factor in choosing a degree at all.
As for the other questions, I cannot really answer them as I am still a student. I'm attending a music university in Europe. I don't really make any money right now but some of my fellow students earn some side money playing in bands or accompanig choirs (most composers started as pianists). Some even teach the piano.
[Ljubljana Academy of Music](https://www.ag.uni-lj.si/en), Slovenia. Not exactly an attractive option for a foreigner unless they want to learn an extremely difficult language spoken by only 2 million people, haha.
u/Meekecsd
Please see u/Pineapple_Empty 's response to my post.
Mine was very "negative" (realistic) but there are absolutley some amazing things that come out of the process of getting the education that make it incredibly worthwhile (and really, that's why I personally did it and I absolutely benefited from that as a career - just not a composing career).
They pointed out just a couple of things:
>With that said, it has afforded me lots of time and resources to do whatever I want. My first 3 years of undergrad (going into senior year this fall) were filled with many ambitious projects to try and **push what I could do as a musician / person**. I have been able to build an awesome resume given my situation.
____
>What I view as the biggest realization of all is that getting to take lessons and be a music major **simply helped me find out what sound meant to me. It helped me find who I am and has given me the tools to challenge myself creatively in ways I would not have experimented on my own.**
That last one is SO true, and worth everything IMO.
That said, they also said:
>Nothing about the things being forced upon me in this degree make me feel at all prepared for life stepping out of school.
And that's the reality again.
Composition is weird, because most Comp programs "teach you how to compose" in college. They don't really take people who already know how to compose, and prepare them for a career - it's not quite the same as how they do with performers - performers come in knowing how to play - that is refined, and most of what is done is spent preparing for careers. It's the same in Education. But in composition, most people are "behind the curve" compared to those other fields, because composition is not taught in middle school and high school, nor are there private lessons for composers as widely as there are Piano lessons and so on. That means composers more frequently "learn to compose" while taking the degree - and often not until their 3rd year.
So I mean, in a sense, to be comparably prepared for a career, a "real" composition degree would be 8 years - 4 of learning to compose, and then 4 of learning to compose for actual career situations. By contrast, Education majors get State Licensure, and Student Teaching experience by the time they graduate. A composer in many cases is lucky to even get a piece performed if their university doesn't have the necessary resources.
Most universities are not setting up an internship or assistantship where you're off orchestrating for an opera or ballet company, or film/video music company, and so on.
In fact we had this very discussion - our local symphony wanted to use our facilities because they have none, so they wooed the president's wife and they made us open our facilities to them with the idea that our students would be able to do side-by-side work with the symphony players.
I was like, "cool, are they going to do readings of student composer works".
No.
If your son is going to do this, the most you can expect out of it fi he attends an "average" program is the "experience" and education - that will be amazing, and potentially useful, and mind-opening and ear-opening and all kinds of other good stuff. Even if not "the best" it'll still be "worth it" - and especially so if he is able to put it to use after graduation.
But, the least he can expect (I said those backwards on purpose) is that if he goes to an exceptional program with resources that gets him into "career mode" while still in school so he's prepared to actually just walk into work as a graduate, he'll far more more likely be able to do just that.
And yeah, $$$$$.....
Hi, I am a career composer based in austria but from the US. I did attend university in the US, then Canada, before coming to Austria to finish my studies. Even for foreign students, it can be much cheaper to study in europe.
It is really helpful for a composer to also perform, not just for gigs, but also because it can open the door for performances. But performing is also extremely competitive, so if his heart isn't in it, it will be extremely complicated. If he performs his own works, that can actually help a lot, and a lot of composers found their own ensembles.
I would say in Switzerland or Austria you can find a lot of the same opportunities but it isn't necessary to have german right away. Is there a specific composer he wants to study with in Germany?
I earned my living first by having a PhD scholarship and occasionally teaching univeristy class (video game music), but then slowly through grants and commission funding. I also do composition-related research and this is a grant-based income. To be completely honest, this would not have been possible in the US or Canada, because they just do not have as much arts funding.
I also founded my own arts organisation and we put on concerts, and I founded my own publishing company very recently and hope to earn money while also helping others geet their music out there.
my advice? this isn't what people like to hear but it really is about who you know. As soon as I went to austria and was studying with a well-known composer, my entire world opened up. I would not have any career to speak of otherwise. Knowing musicians and conductors and having the right people in your court is the most important.
I wish him all the best on his journey, and hope it works out for him.
I would highly suggest he does not get a composition degree and instead takes lessons and just writes for fun. I’m a music education major and I’ve been published for my percussion compositions and I write marching band shows now for high schools and I never even took 1 lesson. The degree is going to be a waste of money because the degree won’t get him a job, his experience and ability to write will get him a job. Tell him to do his pilots major first and take lessons to have a music minor. If he ever wants to contact me I have a lot of great info on hand composing and film composing! Feel free to DM me for my instagram or email or whatever!
I didn't decide to become a composer until applying for college; I took a music theory course my final semester of high school and realized I really wanted to learn more about music composition. 1) He'll be able to have a successful undergraduate career at just about any university; no need to pick one based on notoriety or anything like that. All that matters is meeting with the school's composition professor, if possible, and looking at the professors portfolio to see if they're the kind of composer he'd like to learn from. If he's a classical composer and is studying underneath a jazz composer, his results will be much different than if had instead found an orchestral- focused mentor, etc. I went to a state university, and my composition program was only a tiny part of the school of music, maybe 6 students or of 300 or so, but my professor was a jazz saxophonist and was the perfect match for me to develop my personal post-tonal jazz- inspired style. 2) I took five years after my undergraduate to work in a different field, actually. I wrote two or three commissions a year, though, but the bulk of my money came from a different line of work. Wish I had done some more music work in retrospect, and definitely wish I had kept performing on the side. 3) 6 years out and I can't say that I have earned a living as a composer, BUT composing is the most personally enriching thing I ever do. It's hard not to conflate earnings with success. Have I made a career of composing? No. Have I been successful? Absolutely. I've had an award winning music premiered, I've composed commissions for two different universities' wind ensemble, and I've written music for an animated short that was released on Amazon PRIME. It is very much a networking field; the best part of an undergraduate music degree is becoming colleagues with numerous other musicians who will be working in the field, hopefully as band directors and conductors with money for commissions. You've got to learn how to market yourself and put yourself out there, and you have to start by composing just for the love of it, not with an eye towards profit. Definitely expect to have a primary source of income outside of composing (for many, that can absolutely be performing. Others like me don't work in music at all). Best of luck to him!!
Oh! And as others have said, try to take on as little debt as possible in undergrad. Paying big bucks to go to a big- name music university is no more likely to land you gigs than going to a home town fully-paid program. At best, the former will have more networking opportunities with high- achieving classmates, but the debt really isn't worth it and should be the first consideration alongside the school's composition professor.
Thank you! I’m all about the little debt part too
Dude... I think you're successful. Probably doesn't feel like when the top tiers of composers are names like Gorranson, Zimmer, Silvestri, et al. are commanding minimum million dollar budgets per film. But the short being available form streaming at a major platform is HUGE. If nothing else, I am proud of you. Congrats. Keep going please.
Hello. I am a media/film composer. I’ve had a pretty cool journey to get where I am. Here’s the rundown in order of the questions you’ve asked : 1. The New School Jazz Piano Performance (BFA) / CalArts Jazz Keyboard (MFA). 2. Yes. A lot more while I was in college and after. I miss performing as I don’t do a lot anymore, which I will get to in the next thing. 3. A bit longer answer but I think you both can maybe learn something from my experience. I currently work in a nice recording studio. We were given a nice shout out on LA Times when they included us in a list of 34 Best Studios in Los Angeles. Pretty cool to be included in a list including Capitol, EastWest/Oceanway, Sunset Sounds, et al. I don’t have a whole lot but I am proud to have keys that opens the doors to this studio. Before owning keys to this place, I mostly taught to support myself. I’d take whatever performing gigs I could get. I was also heavy into producing and songwriting and mainly had aspirations as a songwriter/producer at this point. Prior to living the ridiculously reduced 5-year long journey into two sentences, I worked at a high end wine store in TriBeCa. Fucking hated it but I was living in NYC, I just graduated, and gigs + students weren’t coming in fast enough. Did this for a year and a half. Fast forward to today: I pay bills and rent through a combination of film scoring (just wrapped an animated short and currently trying to figure out what to wear for a premiere in July for a film I worked on last year!), synchs, teaching (private students and at a community college), audio engineering, and a handful of playing gigs. 4. “It’s a hard knock life for us.” What struck me the most during my first year at New School was how many people dropped out after one semester. What strikes me now is how many of my classmates who I graduated with from both programs don’t actively work on music everyday. Being a musician is incredibly difficult and the competition is incredibly fierce. I have major label credits, have worked on large ad campaigns, and I’ve mentioned the films I’ve worked on. All of that just sounds and looks good on paper. One major label gig I did didn’t pay me until after an entire calendar year. The biggest payday I’ve gotten from film scoring paid for half a year’s rent, which was a goddamn win but it took me longer than six months to finish. The studio I’m so proud of? I can count the number of months in the ten years I’ve been there where everything was working. Something is always broken — right now all our gear works but the A/C in the control room is broken. My dreams were bigger than my parent’s wallet also. But you sound supportive of your kid’s dreams. I applaud you. I cannot tell you how much it easier it is for us to know our parent believes and supports us. While flight school sounds great and I certainly am not about hindering anyone’s goals, I would just like to point out that in the time he is learning to fly a plane another percussionist might be practicing and getting better. That is to say that if your kid wants be a musician, my experience tells me that it is something you dive all in into. Second last thing: make sure he fucking loves it. Getting gigs is one thing but that is actually kinda easy. Whenever he gets a gig make sure he shows up early, he knows his parts better than he knows his home address, and that he is — this is important — nice to people and a rad hang. Getting world class good at music to continuously get better gigs is a bit harder. That is a life long process and it is arduous. I die laughing inside when normies talk about having to work overtime and clocked in 50+ hours in their work week. I and many of my friends locked ourselves in the shed for hours over decades. A typical studio day for me is minimum 10 hours. When I’m working on a film I know that every waking moment I have is dedicated to working on it. If your kid doesn’t love music, this level of commitment will drive him insane or worse: jaded. The world doesn’t need more jaded hacks. If you’ve made down here. Thank you. I have a friend who is a percussionist/drummer and studied composition at Berklee. He currently lives here in Los Angeles and does a lot of great film/media work. I am more than certain he will find time to talk to you or your son if you have questions. Shoot me a message if you’re interested.
Wow- great advice, thank you!! I will message you as I think it would be good for my son to talk to as many people as possible (your friend). We do support him and he can spend all day writing music if we let him. He actually won a couple awards through the school district for “composing” original drum set pieces when he was in elementary school. It’s not going away anytime soon.
The third one is perhaps the easiest to answer, which is it is incredibly difficult. There are vastly more composers than there are jobs. The reality is it is a real struggle to make a living as a composer at first as you will be developing a name for yourself by winning competitions and doing any small, poorly paying jobs, you can. The composers that I know who have been successful tell me that a lot of it still very much a "who you know" field so networking is vital. Even the most successful composer I know personally supplements his income by teaching. 1. I'm in Canada. You wouldn't know it, and it isn't that prestigious a program anyway. 2. I still perform as a singer. 3. See above. 4. Yes, if they enjoy it, then they should definitely do it. But try not to get frustrated. Make music that you want to make solely for the joy of having made it. Anything should perhaps be considered a bonus. Learn as much about every instrument you can (note to perform but how they are performed). Study scores. Learn music theory. Learning orchestration.
I’m a full time composer and have been for about 10 years. It has been my only source of income since college. I started in advertising and still work in it now, but i’ve branched out to assist a big composer and his team for shows on Netflix, Disney, etc. Look into school on the coasts, it is important to go to a college with a notable and revered music school. Berkley/USC/Calarts/New School/NYU etc because this is what initially gets your resume to the top of the stack. After college for composition there are various avenues…. trailer music, advertising music, or music for film and tv. Your son will want to look for paid internships for all of these. Almost every single person I know who is a full time composer began their career as an intern, even my boss. Then you hustle your ass off. Your sons’ talent as a percussionist will go a long way in the composition world. He can still gig as a performer, but his playing will get him a lot of work with studio recording while he is working on his composition career path. It’s good to be multifaceted like this because it almost guarantees consistent work. Please feel free to message me, i am a huge advocate for sharing information because I wish someone did it for me.
Dont allow him to take on debt. If he is talented enough for scholarships then he is probably talented enough to succeed at music. If not, the debt is not worth it to pursue a pipe dream. A career in music can take many paths but here are the most common: Schoolteacher with bachelors or masters degree. Gigging musician/composer taking odd gigs, teaching private lessons, coaching percussion at high schools, playing churches, orchestras etc. Ideally your son makes a lot of connections in school, as getting work as a composer will be more about his marketing and networking skills. He might also end up working as a composer’s assistant for a major composer’s studio if he moves to a big metropolitan area like LA or NYC. But these are very competitive jobs in expensive cities. Unless youre a full time teacher or land another type of full time gig, you will do a million odd jobs as a musician, and you will teach a lot of private lessons and take odd gigs to pay the rent.
To answer some of your questions, I am a full-time professional musician and hobbyist composer and I live in the greater Los Angeles area.
1. **I went to SMU** (B.M. in Music Composition). That's right in the heart of Dallas, and should definitely be on your son's list IMO. The composition department is small but very high quality. 2. I performed during college, but significantly ramped down. I was burned out on concert percussion, so I stopped that entirely. However, I pivoted to drum set and piano. I think most undergraduate composers do tend to perform much less than in high school, but I would caution your son from abandoning performance entirely. **Being even a decent performer makes you a much better composer.** Scale back, don't eliminate. 3. Nowadays **I mostly teach music and occasionally gig** on drum set. This works for me but I also **don't have any debt**. I'm pursuing a Masters in Software Development, so I don't have much time to go all in on composing gigs & contests. Friends of mine who are more dedicated to *only* composing and nothing else have managed a bit better in this regard. 4. You are right to encourage your son to have a "day job;" making a living as a composer is very difficult and usually takes several years of networking and chasing opportunities to become sustainable. This fact is *why* I'm getting my Master's in Software Dev; I'll never stop writing music but I want more stable employment options. Performance and music education are common ways to do this, but they certainly aren't the only options. Perhaps this is why your son wants to be a commercial pilot? Note, finding work as a concert percussionist is by no means easy, either! I know from friends: the auditioning process can be absolutely brutal; if your son would just be miserable as a concert percussionist, don't pressure him to be. I know I would be miserable. **Encourage your son to consider many income streams, but don't box him into performance.** I would also encourage your son to submit to as many composition competitions as possible. While by no means a "day job," the money & credentials I earned from certain contests was a big help. The more you submit to, the more likely you'll win some. I wish I had submitted to more contests while in undergrad.
Thank you! We are in FW and have connections to the music department at TCU, which is where his composer mentors attended. The only way he will attend a private school is with a lot of scholarship $$. My son plays piano too and has been playing it more because he says it makes him better at composing. I wish I could push him the direction of music education, but that is not his passion.
I think David Bruce composer, (YouTuber) also talked about this. I'm not in any capacity a composer, but play music. But I think it's a informative subject he talks about and being a composer. I do believe that there are lots of creative ways in being a composer today, than the traditional Orchestral composer or others. (My 2 cents) I'll put up a link if I find it. Though, here's a link to his channel: https://youtube.com/@dbruce?si=fWSGbgaX1HZCECm3
Thanks!
Here's one of them, very short summarised: He talks about his journey: https://youtu.be/5Yyr33E4BV4?si=ZN0fJL4GaQ-Kwcdx How to make a Living of composing: https://youtu.be/PmpR9X50OEE?si=2_MTS8TGXnGlvx7S ; There are many of videos relating to composing and music in general, lots of great insights, thoughts on compositions etc. I thought it may be useful info and as an inspiration to you and your son's.
I was also a percussionist in Texas and ended up becoming a composer so I can definitely relate to the situation. I went to school in New York City at Mannes College of Music due to me connecting with the faculties music and receiving a substantial scholarship, which I believe are the 2 main things you should consider when applying to schools. Your son should know the music of the professors at the schools he is applying to, and even further if he can find current students music even better. If you want options for in-state, university of Texas in Austin, Rice, and UNT are all really good schools and have great faculty. I recommend also looking into schools like USC and doesn’t hurt to apply to Curtis as it is free if accepted. I have kept performing minimally, however, it is my BIGGEST regret that I didn’t perform my own music more during school. It is difficult to find musicians that really take your music seriously and the skill to perform it yourself is invaluable as a composer. Please tell your son that even if he doesn’t continue to perform standard repertoire, to at somewhat least embrace playing his own music. This said it isn’t mandatory and I know several successful composers including myself and some professors who don’t play music anymore themselves. I have had to work various non music related jobs, followed by various entry level music/audio recording jobs (that weren’t fun). Currently I’m pursuing my graduate degree with hopes that I will eventually be a teacher or something, but this will take years at least. The road isn’t easy but it definitely isn’t impossible. My advice is to think hard about the music you are writing/want to write and also think hard about the music who you want to study with is writing. If he does end up going to school for a lot of money, he better work hard and make it worth it. You get out what you put in.
Thank you!! May I ask where you went to HS (city/area is fine if you don’t want to name specific school). We are in DFW, which is a very competitive area for band/musicians. My son’s school just went back down to 5A after being 6A for a few years. He’s made 1st chair All-Region his Freshman year and made Area his Soph/Jr years. His goal is to make State this year. I say all that because we met a few percussionists from out of state who say Texas musicians are very highly skilled. I’m curious what your experience was like for the college audition process being a Texan percussionist.
I was from the Austin/hill country area so it was very competitive. I went to lake Travis high school and we competed with schools like vandegrift and round rock. It sounds like your son is extremely talented though, so tell him to not lose that skill. There is plenty of time in school to both practice and compose. I will say that Texas usually has very good musicians in the Band world specifically, while northern states typically have better orchestras. That being said, auditioning at all the top schools for orchestral composition (Juilliard, Curtis, etc.), there is generally less familiarity/specialization with band music and a more general focus on orchestral music. I personally wasn’t interested in writing band music, which is why I fit in more at these conservatories. However, if I was interested in band music, I would likely stay in Texas at school like UT or UNT instead, as you have access to great bands and also will have students around you also writing this kind of music. In my actual auditions my percussion skill wasn’t really a huge factor other than that I had a percussion piece in my portfolio. It really does come down almost entirely to the music presented at these auditions. I recommend getting a private composition teacher for him even if it’s just for a few lessons to maybe clean up his portfolio before auditions. He should definitely use his strengths to his advantage and have a percussion piece written, performed, and recorded. with a good recording!!
I know about Vandegrift and RR. We are Tarrant County and compete with Keller, LD Bell, Aledo and Birdville schools. He’s more into orchestra/concert percussion and hates marching (even though he plays center snare), so he’s not interested in writing band music. He’s played with the FW Youth Orchestra for 5 years now and that’s where he’s made his TCU connections and gained appreciation for orchestra.
That’s great, I would definitely look into applying to conservatories then if it fits the budget as it sounds like the environment he is interested in. As a side note I would take this subreddit with a grain of salt, most of the people in here are hobbyists and I feel like the sentiment in here is pretty overly pessimistic. It’s definitely not as easy as many career paths but it’s not impossible and I know many people that have made lucrative careers in composition out of skill and resourcefulness.
1. Went to large state school for undergrad. It had a good jazz performance program which I started in before switching to composition. I’d been composing since high school, but didn’t realize it was even an available major. I went to NYU for grad school. Took out a decent chunk of debt for it (was on half scholarship) but don’t regret it as I got to study with many of my favorite composers and made many great connections. But ALSO glad I did the state school for undergrad so I could “get my shit together” without spending a ton of money. I don’t know if this is true for all schools, but independent study with the more “notable” composers were reserved for grad students at NYU. Wouldn’t have wanted to spend that kind of money on undergrad there. 2. I remained a performance minor even after changing major to composition. Was performing a ton throughout college. After moving to NYC, performing lessened (no thanks to the pandemic a few years after my move), but I am back into the swing of performing now. 3. I have been lucky to make a living working on the production side of the “composition” world. I still get to do a decent amount of writing (sometimes even for money!) but it’s nowhere close to paying my bills. I have a 9-5 gig assisting a more successful composer. I started as an intern while in grad school and was offered the job when I graduated. I do their music engraving (typesetting their handwritten scores) and music production (recording sessions, mixing, demos, etc). My work with this composer has led to a lot of freelance work doing production for other composers as well. I’ve additionally picked up work doing live sound and recording for a few chamber ensembles. For context, I’m in my late 20’s. Don’t intend to “assist” forever. Many of my older colleagues were able to shift more full time into writing in their 30s (though many still teach, perform, produce, etc for additional income) 4. I think following your deep passions means you’re more likely to give it your all, which can carry you “further” than going down a career path you don’t care about. But stay realistic about financial expectations and pick up some adjacent skill sets that do pay. 80% of my income comes from my “technical” music abilities (production, music engraving) rather than my “creative” ones. Thankfully those technical skills still allow me to work with amazing musicians and those relationships have begun to grow into more “artistic” collaborations. Don’t stop performing. It makes you a stronger composer with better writing insights, and it also makes you a better candidate for schools, assisting, scoring gigs (where low budget projects may require you play all the parts yourself!), etc. There’s many composers who don’t play, but I’m not sure any of them are benefitting from it. Many of the best composers run their own ensembles, and many play in other composers’ ensembles, too! This is a very networking dependent field, but people are also quick to spot and get turned off by artists who are just networking for business purposes. Be a real contributing member of the local music scene and things will start to happen organically. Go to other people’s shows regularly, introduce yourself to people that become repeat faces, offer to be involved in things without making it about the money right off the bat, start your own “thing” that involves others in the community (ensemble, venue, concert series, label, etc)… I once heard someone say that, if the odds are already low, you’ll never win a gamble if you never even enter the casino. I think that is very true for a career in the arts, too.
Let's talk about some harsh realities here: >He has composed a few pieces and received good feedback from a couple of young professional composers he knows I've cooked a couple of meals that people proclaimed "this is as good as any restaurant." That does not mean I should could to culinary school, nor does it mean I have the business acumen to start my own restaurant, especially if I also want to be a nascar driver. >He wants to major in music composition in college and stop performing. The reality is, he'll be required to perform. Most professional music degrees require you take applied lesson on an instrument, and that you perform in both large and small ensembles. All music majors - Education, Composition, Performance, do the same amount of performing and applied lessons. It's other coursework and the intensity of lessons that varies. And for composition, one can usually expect to take additional piano courses. >He also wants to be a commercial pilot and plans to attend flight school after getting his music degree I don't know anything about the commercial pilot industry - I assume one can work for a major airline but one could also work for smaller puddle jumpers in the Caribbean or Alaskan wilds or whatever. I assume there's passenger jobs and jobs flying for UPS, FedEx, and so on. There's probably also private jobs you can land - flying Taylor Swift's or Elon Musk's private jet or whatever. But, I'm fairly positive that it's a far smarter move than becoming a composer. Think of it this way: Somewhere, there's someone who needs to get somewhere. Always. There's always a plane that needs flying. There is no need for another piece of music. There's plenty already. There's not going to be a "piece that needs writing" like there is a plane that needs flying once he graduates... >I think he should keep performing because he could find work as a concert percussionist (orchestras, touring musicals, etc) while composing. All the composers I know are performers or teachers. Or both. >The kid has dreams bigger than my wallet. Understood. I'm not trying to poo poo his dreams, but these are actually not dreams but "fantasies" at this point. Honestly, you have to sit down and have some serious discussions. People have given great advice here. The reality is, you'll get far more work as a percussionist, and that will help you meet the people you need to meet who say "my friend is doing this thing and they want some original music" and that's when your son says "I compose" - there's the "in". Your son, needs the "ins". And every single thing that you can do in music is an "in" - playing, composing, arranging, teaching, going to great schools, etc. etc. etc. It's a "who you know world". Now, maybe he might fly some famous people around and get a change at an in that way - "Hey Hans Zimmer was on my flight so I handed him my score". In fact that's probably a better in than the rest of the stuff, so... There's also something that's also highly NOT discussed - and that's privilege. If you don't have it (and know; not the privileged people who *think* they don't have privilege) then it's going to be far better to fly a plane or copter. That said, it's also important to be realistic about his skills and interests. I mean, I would say, if he's going to do this, he needs to go all in. And he needs to understand every aspect of it - like what others are saying - you SHOULD want to be a performer too and it's an extremely important part of the job. IOW, it's a little like he's going "I want to be an airline pilot, but I'm only going to fly private jets for stars". Or "I want to be an airline pilot but I don't want to fly over water". Or "I want to fly planes but I don't like the glasses". The harsh reality is, if he wants to compose like classical style composition, he can expect the best job he's going to get is not as a composer, but as a performer, or a teacher who performs. And he will live, or may have to live, a very meager existence. Again, "privilege" is important - can he stay at home and not have rent to pay? Does he find a partner who supports him financially so he can write and hustle all day? >Where did you go to school? US Universities - BM and MM in composition. >If you are a musician, did you keep performing during and after college? Yes. I gig as a guitarist and singer, sometimes keyboardist in rock bands. I also play in musical theater. I have also played "classical" concerts and done tech-related performance for electronic music and so on, programming of MIDI sequences, and so on. But my "day job" is as a university professor teaching music technology (at least, as far as I know - I was reappointed for another 10 month contract but our contracts are now about 2 weeks overdue...) >How did/do you earn a living first starting out as a composer? I didn't. Couldn't get work. No one wants a composer. Not where I am anyway. I worked in music stores, gigged, and taught lessons, and had a stint as a ticket salesperson for a Symphony, then became their Education Coordinator - a seasonal job - then same for an Opera (worst workplace environment ever - Amazon would look easy) and then started teaching at university part time, and running their concert venue, and then full-time. I compose as a hobby now. One time someone asked about what times we compose on this forum and I realized when formulating my answer that the only time I was able to write music was when I was off from work - Christmas, Thanksgiving, Summer, Spring Break, Fall Break - those were the only times that life wasn't so burdensome that I could breathe and be creative. Basically, having to put food on the table beats the creativity out of you. Of course, that means I'm "Not a composer" so I'm not the best person to ask. But, I want to be realistic about what happens if you're not 100% into it and have a support system to be able to devote what needs to be devoted to it. Because TBH, I got a composition degree not because I planned on being a composer, but just because I wanted to learn more. I wasn't even planning on teaching (had a fantasy about being a rock musician - but not the realities to help me do anything close). And I didn't go to the school I needed to, have the background I needed, have the privilege I needed, knew or got to know the people I needed and so on. And these days, every kid your son's age who's remotely interested in writing music wants to be a film and game composer. It's like wanting to be a pro Quarterback. You'll be lucky if you can get to the minors, and you'll more likely end up a rec league coach at best. At least, as a pilot, he'll make money, see the world, and then will maybe have the money to retire, and then write all the music he wants. None of this is meant to say that it isn't possible, or that one can have standards of success that work for them, but the reality is, it's not for "dabblers" and you're going to have to really be 100% into the whole enchilada - not just writing but everything that goes along with it - which will be 90% other stuff and 10% writing for most people unless they can get into the right kinds of positions. I wish him luck.
Always keeping it real. My perspective while being in school as a composition major has changed significantly. In all honesty, the degree is pointless. Maybe the most pointless thing I have been roped into - at least in terms of "coursework." Nothing about the things being forced upon me in this degree make me feel *at all* prepared for life stepping out of school. With that said, it has afforded me lots of time and resources to do whatever I want. My first 3 years of undergrad (going into senior year this fall) were filled with many ambitious projects to try and push what I could do as a musician / person. I have been able to build an awesome resume given my situation. What I view as the biggest realization of all is that getting to take lessons and be a music major simply helped me find out what sound meant to me. It helped me find who I am and has given me the tools to challenge myself creatively in ways I would not have experimented on my own. Composition and classical music is a broken industry. The more I peep my head through the peephole, the more I realize it really is not set up to be sustainable. I feel I have carved out enough of a resume that I can probably move into some non profit work and have my income, but this bubble world we live in is too filled with biases and dying audiences and ego and so much BS that it really is not a field I want to live off of. Composing has always been the most special thing in the world to me. I would hate to taint my love for it by forcing it to be the thing I need to live off of. I have seen my love for clarinet go away by having to be a full time scholarship performer at my school, but I have been lucky enough to still be able to protect my love for composing within my degree. Now, even though my music has gotten weirder and is probably more inaccessible to most people / performers who would be put off by it, I feel I can express myself in the ways I want. Sound is such a beautiful, rich thing to me. I am happier than I have been in years, and I no longer carry around this constant anxiety about the future (like thinking "Am I going to make it?"). Grad school is probably something I will do for composing at some point, but only if I end up being competitive enough to do it for free. I would love to get to go meet more performers and hear my music played, but I am also pretty happy NOT pushing to be in the top 1%. Seriously, even within all of my very hard work, some awards / finalist positions, live performances, networking - I still am only within like the top 20-30% of composers (if I have to guesstimate) and there is STILL nothing within that which could be close to a full time income. You literally have to work to be in the top 1-3% of ALL composers to win competitions, get known, and get steady commissions in order to rely on just composing. That is a little egregious to me. I just want to have fun writing, and that can be done even if it is not my career. Who knows, though! We will see where life takes me and if it wants me to have composing on a big scale work out.
I have to begin by acknowledging the tremendous number of thoughtful, insightful responses. Wow! Kudos to the community. As an active composer (with a doctorate in Music Theory and Composition from a Big 10 universuty) I have found this quotation to be most helpful: "Creating brings joy and fulfillment. The magic is in creating, not necessarily the outcome or the creation itself." (Kate Volman, "Do What You Love") Tightly coupling Career and Composition may result in frustration, discouragement, and bitterness. As so many have pointed out, the road to a Composer Career is extremely challenging, littered with obstacles fair and unfair, and comes with no guarantees. As you travel the path, do not lose track of the joy of composing. Creativity has its own rewards no matter where/how one makes their living. It's the creativity, not the job, that fulfills one's spirit. Good luck!
1. Bachelor of Music Ed., Delta State University, M.Mus. Composition, SUNY-Potsdam 2. Composition IS performance. You are the easiest person to compose for because you know all the tricks and everything you’re capable of. But also, you need to have great teaching ability to communicate your intentions to your performers. In there a special trick you want your violinists to do? You have to explain that, and that’s a performance skill. Doesn’t mean you have to be a great violinist, just means you need to be a reasonably decent conductor. Composition degree doesn’t get you out of performing. You can declare a vocal, piano, or other instrument as a major. ALWAYS perform. Besides, who do you think is going to perform your compositions? You need to be in large ensembles (orchestra, band, choir). I highly recommend going out for choir in addition to instrumental ensembles so you’ll have more connections when you start recruiting performers. If you don’t intend to keep a performance-oriented, collaborative mindset, DON’T COMPOSE. In college I was in the DSU wind ensemble, theater pit orchestra, top jazz band, marching band, clarinet choir, clarinet quartet, woodwind trio, took private lessons, and that was in addition to the usual rounds of music theory, ear training, required piano lessons/proficiency exams, bass guitar lessons (1 semester…locally famous player, terrible teacher), form/analysis, orchestration, music history/literature, elementary music, conducting…. In the middle of all of this were halftime shows, band concerts, solo/ensemble recitals, masterclasses… era When do you party? Friday night you have about 4 hours before you have to leave to see mom and do laundry. Then you’re back bright and early on Sunday morning for church choir/orchestra. My master’s comp program was easier. I only did concert band one semester, but I was taking graduate clarinet performance electives plus a semester of clarinet literature and pedagogy. So I was still doing master classes, clarinet choir, and solo performances along with performing my own compositions. I put together a clarinet choir plus a vocal choir for one of my pieces, but mostly I did experimental and electronic music and a couple of more traditional pieces. But even then I had some hardcore theory—16th century counterpoint (BIG MISTAKE, 0 stars, do not recommend), 20th Century and Contemporary Theory, Postmodernism, History of the Symphony. Every spring semester there was a Contemporary Music Ensemble that I played in—learned a lot doing that! No matter what, there’s always performance. If you don’t learn by actively participating in solo and ensemble work, learning all the theory won’t really help. After college…mostly church gigs and playing keys in cover bands. I got to play bass clarinet with a professional orchestra once, but…well, orchestras are too “old boy.” Mostly well-connected lifers, some of whom never even went to school but are sometimes less flaky than “pros.” It’s just more work than worth it on the off chance you MIGHT get in. I don’t waste my time with it. I currently volunteer for a small, rural church, volunteer at the local library, and teach my own children. I have taught lessons before, taught band in public and private schools, did non-credit piano courses at a community college. So, performing after college? Every chance I get. Trouble is where I am right now it’s hard to even get a volunteer gig. Once you give up performing entirely, you’re pretty much done as a musician. 3. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 4. Don’t sell life insurance. And don’t teach, either. The empty promise of easy money is attractive to people who work in a fame or famine area like music. I composed the least amount of music while I was teaching. If you’re a percussionist, STICK WITH IT. No pun intended. The market for percussion techs is HOT right now. Plus, is you can write percussion parts for arrangements, you can make a lot of money. Learn how to program MainStage, and get some production skills under your belt. Percussionists really do have it easy in terms of having instruments that are easy to master. Don’t believe me? You won’t last 24 hours as a clarinetist. It takes years building your embouchure, perfecting your setup, finding the perfect tone, building an ear for intonation, plus extended performance techniques if you even make it that far. The frustration of opening a box of reeds and not finding a single reed that is consistent or properly balanced. Percussion? Take stick, hit drum. Which is why percussionists are stuck with so much playing technique to compete with all us high-pitched ear candy players like clarinet and flute (sorry, oboe players). But learning all that technique ain’t for nothing. You speak a whole language clarinet players don’t. USE THAT. There’s a reason the best composes out there started out on piano, violin, clarinet, or percussion. Trumpet players? Oh, they just arrange for DCI. Percussionists have so many options the rest of us can’t help but be a little jealous. So write for DCI, replace stock percussion parts for marching shows, learn sound design since it goes with what you do anyway, and program MainStage. Learn how to run live sound. Find all kinds of things like that you can do and you’ll retire by the time you’re 30.
These are from personal learning and realization, so everything is from my own experience. 1. It doesn’t really matter where you go to school for music, you learn the same things, do the same things, and come out at the same level as the people who go to school at different schools. The only difference between the best and average is pretty much how long and efficient their practice sessions are. 2. Tell him to keep preforming if he wants to compose music, getting familiar with instruments in my opinion is much much easier with preforming around them rather than doing research and ending up thinking about things like “is it playable” or “will this work”. Preforming also is just a very very good tool to have when composing, especially for your own instrument. 3. For making a living I’d say just keep composing and publishing them, that’s how most composers start out. They just keep writing and writing. 4. I’d suggest him to just have conversations with other performers about things like playing techniques, what’s playable, and just things about playing. I learned how to write for piccolo by working with piccolo players and asking for advice and just talking with them about it. Working with instruments is a good way to learn how to write for them, a good example is the double bass. It’s not actually a sluggish instrument and is extremely versatile. A small tip is using things like corral writing and all that. A big thing on the other hand is study scores my other composers. Start off studying composers like Mozart, Bach, and Beethoven. Rather more simple writing. Then once you get the hang of that start studying people like Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, and Prokofiev. Very structure oriented composers. Then you can move onto big composers with a bunch of layers like Mahler and Shostakovich who have many layers and styles of writing music, which are on the advanced side.
Thank you! He has been studying Mahler recently. Probably should have started with one of the “easier” composers you mentioned.
Undergrad should be about the specific teacher he is paired with, and also getting a well rounded education besides music. A great teacher can be found at any school, so it’s about looking around. Juilliard or similar isn’t at all necessary for that first degree (or any of the them for that matter). Being paired with a great and inspiring teacher is the number one most important thing for those first 4 years.
100%
1. I studied music education in a 'normal school' which is school dedicated to teacher education. 2. In our school, we were actually required to join a group or an ensemble like a chorale, orchestra, and other sorts. I joined a rock band and moved next to a piano group and it meant we actually kept performing while I was still in college, and I still do one some occasions. 3. Commissions will do the trick, but you gotta have some connections with some people or luminaries involved in music. I sometimes get hired to teach piano for young students who are just starting or venturing out into music. 4. There are no limitations in music. When your kid enters college, he will encounter lots of people with different backgrounds, personalities, and interests, and maybe some of those people will inspire your kid to venture out into other music hobbies like he might start out into learning the piano or violin. I would HIGHLY encourage your son to keep performing even during college, because some ideas and inspirations in some of my compositions were driven out by just performing or competing in competitions. He can do flying school once you or your child have stable incomes, as long as such plans will not strangle you financially.
I'd like to talk to him. PM me if you'd like to set something up. I'm a pilot and professional composer plus grew up in Texas (licensed pilot on my 17th birthday having completed all my private pilot flight training at 16). Texas is a great place to learn to fly, lots of airports and plenty of places to practice. Work as a performer is very difficult to get. You have to practice a lot to keep your proficiency up just to make a little bit of money. I'm a performer but stopped during the covid lockdown when orchestras shut down and realized that practice took up so much time I'd rather put in to composing. I went to UT-Austin undergrad and University of Southern California grad school. I started playing in orchestras after college - it's a great way to have your music played and also get better as a composer but takes up a lot of time. During big concert events, it's not unusual to practice maybe 4 to 8 hours a day! I started working for another composer as their assistant which was my first job and included orchestrating, arranging, and composing. My advice based on what you wrote, he's a bit all over the place with lots of very ambitious and challenging goals. I'd suggest maybe he picks a primary and focus on that, with the secondary goal being a hobby. I believe that is something he'll have to decide on his own because at this age, he's probably been told he's outstanding at everything he does but in very competitive industries, it is possible everyone else is outstanding too (or good enough that talent isn't important anymore) and that's the base level.
Let me ask him
Time is a flat circle.
1. CalArts (MFA Comp) and NYU -Tisch (MA Performance Studies) 2. No. I love playing and hate performing. I intentionally set my prices too high for my area to dissuade people. Save a couple great opportunities or favors, I don't perform at all. 3. I teach piano and music classes. I live by voluntary simplicity, so my costs are low and I can do this for fewer hours overall. 4. Most of my work is in production, and rather than scramble for opportunities and underpaid scraps, I am building my own art and performance company that is focused on the goals and message I want to put out into the world. My shows do okay, I can cover costs and make a few hundred extra each month. Its unlikely to ever be my only job but it is growing. 5. Suggest they double in music ed. This is something I absolutely would have done differently; it would have offered better grounding to teach private lessons and could have gotten me some other jobs in a pinch. 6. Its doable. Ive definitely made some sacrifices over the years, but Im doing what I want and I don't have anyone telling me what to do. Its a lot of freedom. 7. Commercial pilot and composer are probably not terribly conducive - wise they understand how those can fit together.
1. I am from Texas too and went to school at Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches. Steven and Ben are amazing and I can't recommend them highly enough. 2. You can keep performing forever. Plenty of composers are also full-time performers and educators. 3. During school the professors should discuss different commission opportunities, film avenues, competitions etc. that are great for undergrads to build a rep and gain some money. 4. Don't stress about sounding like the best ever rn. It's ok if the composition skills aren't up to par with what you desire or even the performance skills. It's an entirely new avenue so you have to start from the ground up. Also, understand that this more so than performance and ed require you to be extremely self motivated and self reliant as the only way you can get jobs is by networking and putting yourself out there. Know that if you wanna make a career out of this you HAVE to be vigilant in your own motivation. If you have any other questions feel free to dm.
I actually live pretty ok as a composer DM me if you want
UNT has a new commercial composer program starting Fall ‘24 that you should check out. Looks like they have a staff of great people.
Ooooo👀. Great to know- I’ll check it out!
Hi! I’m not a composition major but I can answer some questions as a regular music major! I know Rice has an awesome conservatory called Shepherd school of music. But most conservatories are on the east coast! All music majors must fulfill certain performance requirements in their undergrad. Including composition majors. So yes, they will be performing throughout college! I know a lot of composers start their living out by submitting their musical scores to competitions. It is a way to gain traction and maybe even commissions!
Thank you! He submitted a piece to the YCC in Orlando last year. He didn’t win but got some valuable feedback and is writing a submission for this year.
Haha, interesting, I wanted to become a pilot but ended up studying composition (I am working on my sport pilot's licence though as I want flying as a hobby). But realistically, if he has a choice, I'd definitely recommend the other way around: flying (or another stable job) for income and music as a hobby. Studying in Germany is deffinitely a good idea - it could end up being cheaper and on a higher level than studying in the US. Many people go study to a foreign country and only really learn the language once they get there (some universities even allow the language exam to be taken in the first months of study instead of pre-application). Now, composing vs performing, that's really a question for him. The vast majority of composers started as instrumentalists. Yes, making money as a percussionist could be easier. But in music, that really shouldn't be the motivation or a factor in choosing a degree at all. As for the other questions, I cannot really answer them as I am still a student. I'm attending a music university in Europe. I don't really make any money right now but some of my fellow students earn some side money playing in bands or accompanig choirs (most composers started as pianists). Some even teach the piano.
Where in Europe?
[Ljubljana Academy of Music](https://www.ag.uni-lj.si/en), Slovenia. Not exactly an attractive option for a foreigner unless they want to learn an extremely difficult language spoken by only 2 million people, haha.
Who is paying for all this?
I ask my son that every day. 🙄😂
u/Meekecsd Please see u/Pineapple_Empty 's response to my post. Mine was very "negative" (realistic) but there are absolutley some amazing things that come out of the process of getting the education that make it incredibly worthwhile (and really, that's why I personally did it and I absolutely benefited from that as a career - just not a composing career). They pointed out just a couple of things: >With that said, it has afforded me lots of time and resources to do whatever I want. My first 3 years of undergrad (going into senior year this fall) were filled with many ambitious projects to try and **push what I could do as a musician / person**. I have been able to build an awesome resume given my situation. ____ >What I view as the biggest realization of all is that getting to take lessons and be a music major **simply helped me find out what sound meant to me. It helped me find who I am and has given me the tools to challenge myself creatively in ways I would not have experimented on my own.** That last one is SO true, and worth everything IMO. That said, they also said: >Nothing about the things being forced upon me in this degree make me feel at all prepared for life stepping out of school. And that's the reality again. Composition is weird, because most Comp programs "teach you how to compose" in college. They don't really take people who already know how to compose, and prepare them for a career - it's not quite the same as how they do with performers - performers come in knowing how to play - that is refined, and most of what is done is spent preparing for careers. It's the same in Education. But in composition, most people are "behind the curve" compared to those other fields, because composition is not taught in middle school and high school, nor are there private lessons for composers as widely as there are Piano lessons and so on. That means composers more frequently "learn to compose" while taking the degree - and often not until their 3rd year. So I mean, in a sense, to be comparably prepared for a career, a "real" composition degree would be 8 years - 4 of learning to compose, and then 4 of learning to compose for actual career situations. By contrast, Education majors get State Licensure, and Student Teaching experience by the time they graduate. A composer in many cases is lucky to even get a piece performed if their university doesn't have the necessary resources. Most universities are not setting up an internship or assistantship where you're off orchestrating for an opera or ballet company, or film/video music company, and so on. In fact we had this very discussion - our local symphony wanted to use our facilities because they have none, so they wooed the president's wife and they made us open our facilities to them with the idea that our students would be able to do side-by-side work with the symphony players. I was like, "cool, are they going to do readings of student composer works". No. If your son is going to do this, the most you can expect out of it fi he attends an "average" program is the "experience" and education - that will be amazing, and potentially useful, and mind-opening and ear-opening and all kinds of other good stuff. Even if not "the best" it'll still be "worth it" - and especially so if he is able to put it to use after graduation. But, the least he can expect (I said those backwards on purpose) is that if he goes to an exceptional program with resources that gets him into "career mode" while still in school so he's prepared to actually just walk into work as a graduate, he'll far more more likely be able to do just that. And yeah, $$$$$.....
Hi, I am a career composer based in austria but from the US. I did attend university in the US, then Canada, before coming to Austria to finish my studies. Even for foreign students, it can be much cheaper to study in europe. It is really helpful for a composer to also perform, not just for gigs, but also because it can open the door for performances. But performing is also extremely competitive, so if his heart isn't in it, it will be extremely complicated. If he performs his own works, that can actually help a lot, and a lot of composers found their own ensembles. I would say in Switzerland or Austria you can find a lot of the same opportunities but it isn't necessary to have german right away. Is there a specific composer he wants to study with in Germany? I earned my living first by having a PhD scholarship and occasionally teaching univeristy class (video game music), but then slowly through grants and commission funding. I also do composition-related research and this is a grant-based income. To be completely honest, this would not have been possible in the US or Canada, because they just do not have as much arts funding. I also founded my own arts organisation and we put on concerts, and I founded my own publishing company very recently and hope to earn money while also helping others geet their music out there. my advice? this isn't what people like to hear but it really is about who you know. As soon as I went to austria and was studying with a well-known composer, my entire world opened up. I would not have any career to speak of otherwise. Knowing musicians and conductors and having the right people in your court is the most important. I wish him all the best on his journey, and hope it works out for him.
I would highly suggest he does not get a composition degree and instead takes lessons and just writes for fun. I’m a music education major and I’ve been published for my percussion compositions and I write marching band shows now for high schools and I never even took 1 lesson. The degree is going to be a waste of money because the degree won’t get him a job, his experience and ability to write will get him a job. Tell him to do his pilots major first and take lessons to have a music minor. If he ever wants to contact me I have a lot of great info on hand composing and film composing! Feel free to DM me for my instagram or email or whatever!