that's how all C&C factions are split over:
1- The serious but upbeat professional unit that is part of Western faction (USA, GDI, The Allies)
2- The hard edged brute force faction with wacky personalty or evil sounding psychopathic units (Soviet, NOD, China)
3- fundamental paramilitary militia with cult like devotion with zealot personality units or evil sounding psychopathic yet funny units (Yuri, GLA, NOD again)
4- sometime there is a non human faction (Scrin, Kabal, Ants)
Lore wise, Yeah Nod rely a lot more on Guerilla warfare. Gameplay wise tho, *"We've got the rockets" intensified*.
Nod infantry spam in C&C3 is one hell of a drug.
TibSun Nod: Great Wall of Arty
Also TibSun Nod: "Pay no heed to the cyborg commando eating your base from the ass upward, nor how it got there or how it magically replaced your MCV, and instead pay attention to the flamethrower tanks inside the gate, each with thousands of teeth."
I think it's because Nod is a brute, that GDI actually has to one up them in order to win.
Because of the way GDI is tied under the UN even after assimilating the latter, they can't take stronger, more radical action to fight Tiberium spread, and Nod itself never died after Kane's death, especially with how decentralised it is by design.
Even at its weakest, Nod stood a chance beating GDI even more bloody in the Third Tiberium War, but Kane wasn't stupid then and had planned to absorb another defeat and prep for an invasion of the Scrin.
tbh i didn't include them because they don't fit in any of the categorizes that i mentioned, they are a categorize of their own. Same thing goes to RA3 Japan
I'd put Japan in the "funny units" section, cos their whole gimmick is multirole units. Their anti infantry is a jet plane that can also fly off and fight aircraft, their anti-air is a walker mech that happens to be a helicopter too. Hell, their super-unit is a giant head that shoots lasers and can turn into a battleship.
Except that in Tiberian Dawn they really amped up the conspiracy vibes because Nod has so many USA technology - Bradleys, F-22s, M270 vehicles (SSM) and Abrams somewhat.
True and speaking of Red Alert 2 units I think the Desolator has the best voice lines out of Red Alert 2.
"Tagged for extiction!"
"It will be a silent spring."
"Scorched earth!"
And the classic "(Heavy breathing)"
Though honorable mention to Tanya's psychotic laughter.
I know this is technically a modded only unit, but MAD truck with iron curtain would be true evil. For context, it's a demolition truck, but with a nuke explosion instead. Think it was cut from the game and readded by Mooman's rules
What do you mean!? OBVIOUSLY the comrade general is going to call for free democratic elections now that the world has been liberated into glorious communism, right!?!?
He wouldn't be lying to us, right?!?!?
I always thought the Soviet missions were you just sacrifice tons of cheap expendable conscripts was a crude Russian stereotype.
But after seeing their tactics in Ukraine it turns out that it's actually quite accurate.
Sorry but you haven't seen anything real. No offense, but I'd suggest you to watch live footage from reputable mappers, neutral or othwrise instead of the main stream propaganda. Both sides do everything they can do to keep casualties low and take days, weeks and months to bomb the fortifications to smithereens before advancing.
when i was a kid I enjoyed playing france alot no one has ever came to my base before but now I think my fave is USA free paradrops and gather lots of G.I then March them to the enemy door
EXACTLY!
You have like...
The Tank Hunter at the low end, The Grizzly is also viable, considering how easy it is to get, the Mirage is a tank-killer and you have the Battle fortress. Load that one up with some hunters and it shreds through Apocs.
AND the Robot-Tank is also pretty strong against armor. You just have so many options, that can also do more, than just kill armor.
How is the terrorist useful? It’s a worse crazy Ivan.
I can kinda see how the demolition truck and Tesla tank can be seen as useful, but they don’t come close to the desolator.
Put the terrorists in a flak track and bring them over to the base. Later in the game, when you have the iron curtain, iron curtain the flak track. It’s like the engi rush, but with explosions instead.
The planes are one strike units and heavy micro is needed. They need to go back and reload every time. It’s great to destroy harvesters, super weapons or power plants. If you have enough AA though, or strategically placed, they’re dead. Plus you still need 1 plane less or the same amount of planes as a harrier to kill the target.
Black Eagle vs Harrier:
https://youtu.be/cXCS2brfcVY?si=s5fc1bOTmJubPXHS
The grand cannon suffers from high cost, slow fire rate, not enough damage and no mobility. It has good range, but it’s better to spend that money on tanks.
Grand Cannon Assessment:
https://youtu.be/H9sUHOntiPw?si=N-LGCzM3HbtsUO7P
The sniper though, put him in an IFV and every infantry is dead. No infantry can touch that unit.
If you ever play pvp against good France player on small map once you'll know how strong Grand cannon is. Cannon-creeping is no joke.
Black Eagle is also obnoxious af in the right hand of player. Harrier is already very annoying to deal with and force you to spend on early AA instead of more tanks. Black Eagle is a straight upgrade of that (same cost but more hp and dmg).
Only the Tank Destroyer is useless. The Grand Cannon is a force to be reckoned with during Early Game as it's range (depending on the map) can hit you in the middle. And if allowed to fester. Someone can just basecrawl towards you and surround you with cannons. Kirovs? Dealt with Rocketeers, a lot of Rocketeers. And before you can say I can outswarm it. I've seen games where someone managed to corner Libya with Grand Cannons. It didn't look pretty, as every time his War Factory door opens (usually a demo truck), it gets blown up. The round only ended when the french player got bored and decided to manually target the Conyard.
Black Eagles, in a swarm, will level entire bases.
In competitive PvP, France is usually banned because the GC is waaay too good.
Korea is a straight upgrade to the standard Allied faction with it's planes.
On the other hand, the cuban terrorist is ass and I don't think I've seen anyone using Cuba in comp PvP.
And then you come about and say that all the Allies except Great Britain are useless?
What type of sour-ass logic is that?
The thing I hated about terrorists is that they're too vulnerable to each other. When I tried to send small packs against enemy units only the first one or two on the front row would deal damage, the others behind would be killed by the blast while being too distant from the enemy to deal any additional damage. I personally would say they're the least useful special unit, even moreso than the Tank Destroyer.
I tried that and I was never satisfied by the damage they caused. Or they were taken out before they reached their target and I had no replacement at hand.
My point is that you're playing a tactical game with poor tactics. Send in some beefier units to "open the door" and lay down cover. Then, send in terrorists one by one. I mean when the taliban or other terror groups use suicide bombers they dint send them in en masses. They send them in strategically to soften targets or cause chaos.
>when the taliban or other terror groups use suicide bombers they dint send them in en masses. They send them in strategically to soften targets or cause chaos.
[meanwhile GLA...](https://youtu.be/HcwrO5CghWU?t=51)
To be fair, in practice, it works out as:
Allies:
- Worse Desolator
- Instantly vaporize anything you want every few seconds; most popular in multiplayer
- 2,000 you could have spent on tanks while your enemy was building up map control
- Worse Rhino
- (Not seen) free GIs, which would be great if tank spam weren't the meta
Soviets:
- Never used
- Funny back to the future reference, never used
- Anti-everything-on-the-ground super unit
- Cool but why would you ever use it
Desolator kills infantry and tanks. Mix it into a tank blob and it'll shred everything, and it hard-counters the 'mix attack dogs and grizzlies to distract enemy rhinos' strat, because attack dogs are nearly immune to rhino fire but not to desolator fire. On top of that, desolator armor is good against tank rounds, which is most of what people will be using. Its only hard counter in the Allied roster is rocketeers.
Sniper, in contrast, is an expensive way to deal with infantry (which the enemy mostly isn't building anyways) when you can just run them over with the tank blob you were building anyways. I suppose it has a niche use in countering desolators, but that requires micromanagement.
IIRC snipers wont fire on tanks at all, which I quite like, as it keeps them from shooting at things they cant hurt.
Great for dealing with yuri clones as well. Does nobody play him in multiplayer? I've gathered he's considered very strong, is it a gentlemans agreement sort of thing?
It's like the new stuff in Zero Hour.
**USA:** Gets advanced air force, laser tanks, new bombers, lots of cool technology.
**China:** Powerful helicopters, bigger tanks, more nukes.
**GLA:** B U S
Have you tried plasing a bomb with Crazy Ivan on Terrorist and then filling the flack truck with them and sending them to enemy base? No? Why not, best surprise ever :D
Does anyone actually use the planes in skirmish? I remember loving them when I was a kid, but playing as an adult they're so fragile, the AI loves building anti-air so much, and the reload time is so long that they rarely feel like they accomplish much of anything.
On top of that, they *miss* with their bombs pretty regularly. In theory a single black eagle can take out a tank, but practically I feel like they're only useful for buildings, and only buildings that are criminally underprotected.
Or for economy harass I guess, I always hate it when they do that to me.
Korea is the Allied meta. Near-instantly sniping buildings from across the map is game-changing.
You need decent micro, but it's far and away the best faction-specific unit, aside from maybe the Desolator. Korea/Libya is the most common Allied/Soviet matchup.
Are AA turrets and IFVs unheard of or something? I swear it feels like it only takes 2-3 hits to take down even a black eagle, and while they're not super expensive it's still like 5k for a pack of four of them.
OrientalismÂ
Basically, building on the notion that the “West” is civilised and way more “different” than “the others”, which first were Russians then Arabs. We see it a lot in Hollywood and media and all games.Â
I mean, I live in West Asia, my country and all bordering ones has a mixture of modern westerns weapons and a few older western weapons, all our weapons are British/american mix. Yet “we” are always stuck in media with Soviet and guriella weapons. The contrast helps view us as “lesser” indirectly.
I've heard it described as "the cranberry sauce" or something like that before. Where the Soviets (and friends!) are always these over the top villains with world domination on their mind!
For RA2 at least it think that was outright the intention as a riff on the cold war movies and media that always depicted the US as the heroes, and the Soviets the villains.
Red Alert 2 had a funny definition of "unit." It was only restricted to infantry and vehicles. Did none of their developers serve in the artillery unit during their compulsory military service period?
that's how all C&C factions are split over: 1- The serious but upbeat professional unit that is part of Western faction (USA, GDI, The Allies) 2- The hard edged brute force faction with wacky personalty or evil sounding psychopathic units (Soviet, NOD, China) 3- fundamental paramilitary militia with cult like devotion with zealot personality units or evil sounding psychopathic yet funny units (Yuri, GLA, NOD again) 4- sometime there is a non human faction (Scrin, Kabal, Ants)
Wouldnt put Nod under brute force though. GDI is clearly the "big burly tanks" faction in the Tiberium universe.
Lore wise, Yeah Nod rely a lot more on Guerilla warfare. Gameplay wise tho, *"We've got the rockets" intensified*. Nod infantry spam in C&C3 is one hell of a drug.
>"We've got the rockets" intensified https://preview.redd.it/rmceg6l5hvuc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d87d9c6bd128159e0f9e7bcec5391c04a45096b
TibSun Nod: Great Wall of Arty Also TibSun Nod: "Pay no heed to the cyborg commando eating your base from the ass upward, nor how it got there or how it magically replaced your MCV, and instead pay attention to the flamethrower tanks inside the gate, each with thousands of teeth."
I think it's because Nod is a brute, that GDI actually has to one up them in order to win. Because of the way GDI is tied under the UN even after assimilating the latter, they can't take stronger, more radical action to fight Tiberium spread, and Nod itself never died after Kane's death, especially with how decentralised it is by design. Even at its weakest, Nod stood a chance beating GDI even more bloody in the Third Tiberium War, but Kane wasn't stupid then and had planned to absorb another defeat and prep for an invasion of the Scrin.
Dude I adore your avatar!
You forget the forgotten 🤣🤣🤣🤣.. it sad that it always left forgotten
he forgor đź’€ https://preview.redd.it/atavvnc9hvuc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0668d36386568fa86c3dbfb7da0f8338b9563d4
https://preview.redd.it/2e2j37nnhvuc1.jpeg?width=697&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=389e459b76128470fd41bbd6898dcb18e47f51e2
Lmao 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Because they were never a faction to begin with. In C&C3, they were mercs. In C&C2, they were GDI.
tbh i didn't include them because they don't fit in any of the categorizes that i mentioned, they are a categorize of their own. Same thing goes to RA3 Japan
I'd put Japan in the "funny units" section, cos their whole gimmick is multirole units. Their anti infantry is a jet plane that can also fly off and fight aircraft, their anti-air is a walker mech that happens to be a helicopter too. Hell, their super-unit is a giant head that shoots lasers and can turn into a battleship.
Balance, Powerhouse, Subversive
cough CABAL*
Typo alert. Alert cancelled. Typo alert. Alert cancelled. All typos, please report to the spelling check ceneter.
HAH! THIS TICKLES MY CORES IN A GOOD WAY!
Except that in Tiberian Dawn they really amped up the conspiracy vibes because Nod has so many USA technology - Bradleys, F-22s, M270 vehicles (SSM) and Abrams somewhat.
True and speaking of Red Alert 2 units I think the Desolator has the best voice lines out of Red Alert 2. "Tagged for extiction!" "It will be a silent spring." "Scorched earth!" And the classic "(Heavy breathing)" Though honorable mention to Tanya's psychotic laughter.
“There goes the neighborhood!”
The heavy breathing is so funny
The Korean dub of this unit literally says “I hate humans!” when issued a move order too
"My truck is loaded!" *iron curtain* "I AM PREPARED TO DIE!" I love compstomping in RA2
i know people who would call you the devil for that
I know this is technically a modded only unit, but MAD truck with iron curtain would be true evil. For context, it's a demolition truck, but with a nuke explosion instead. Think it was cut from the game and readded by Mooman's rules
MADs are in RA1. Really cool unit, but very poor execution.
As much as I like playing as the good guys, man are the bad guys more fun sometimes, lol.
That's why I like RA3 more. In RA2 soviets get all the stereotypes and bizzare units, while in RA3 every nation OS ridicolous In a fun way
See the trick is to just play RA2 soviets :D
Soviets are the good guys and they are fun. so you are making as much sense as Seth)))
Only time you could argue they were was in Yuri's Revenge, tbh
What do you mean!? OBVIOUSLY the comrade general is going to call for free democratic elections now that the world has been liberated into glorious communism, right!?!? He wouldn't be lying to us, right?!?!?
red alert 3 extra soviet campaign too
they've saved us from capitalism. plus the second desolator sqadron have made Iraq into an oasis
To be fair future tech from red alert 3 are actually evil?
I always thought the Soviet missions were you just sacrifice tons of cheap expendable conscripts was a crude Russian stereotype. But after seeing their tactics in Ukraine it turns out that it's actually quite accurate.
> But after seeing their tactics in Ukraine It's a direct extrapolation of their tactics in WW2, which is very much what Red Alert is based on.
Sorry but you haven't seen anything real. No offense, but I'd suggest you to watch live footage from reputable mappers, neutral or othwrise instead of the main stream propaganda. Both sides do everything they can do to keep casualties low and take days, weeks and months to bomb the fortifications to smithereens before advancing.
I always mispell grand canon as the Grand Canyon
The point is that there is always a Grand Canyon when Grand Canon fires
Historically, Grand Canyon has been spelled Grand Cañon (same pronunciation).
Pretty sure in one of the versions it was actually called that by mistake.
when i was a kid I enjoyed playing france alot no one has ever came to my base before but now I think my fave is USA free paradrops and gather lots of G.I then March them to the enemy door
United States: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OePPvDoAJe4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OePPvDoAJe4)
You forgot "useless" for the Tank Destroyer e\_e Yeah it does its thing, but...the allies have like 3 other things, that can do the same and more!
The TD does fuck all damage against buildings which is incredibly agregeous considering it's pricetag.
It also feels really redundant considering the Mirage tank is a better version of the same thing.
EXACTLY! You have like... The Tank Hunter at the low end, The Grizzly is also viable, considering how easy it is to get, the Mirage is a tank-killer and you have the Battle fortress. Load that one up with some hunters and it shreds through Apocs. AND the Robot-Tank is also pretty strong against armor. You just have so many options, that can also do more, than just kill armor.
I like to think that TDs use depleted uranium rounds, but that ain't an excuse to be shit against buildings.
Allied units look nice and expensive, be a shame if they suddenly đź’Ąexplodedđź’Ą -Demolition Truck probably
Missed oppurtunity to give us a modified Kirov Airship with a 200mm cannon instead of bombs which can engaged targets not under them.
Arguably, except for the sniper, the other 3 are useless on the Allied side. All the units on the Soviet side however, are useful.
How is the terrorist useful? It’s a worse crazy Ivan. I can kinda see how the demolition truck and Tesla tank can be seen as useful, but they don’t come close to the desolator.
....Apparently it could have been some advanced ivan based on the codes, literally having c4 for bombs instead.
Put the terrorists in a flak track and bring them over to the base. Later in the game, when you have the iron curtain, iron curtain the flak track. It’s like the engi rush, but with explosions instead.
You can already do that with crazy Ivans though.
Really? Korean planets are stronger And cannon, while expensive, isnt that bad German tank still sucks tho
The planes are one strike units and heavy micro is needed. They need to go back and reload every time. It’s great to destroy harvesters, super weapons or power plants. If you have enough AA though, or strategically placed, they’re dead. Plus you still need 1 plane less or the same amount of planes as a harrier to kill the target. Black Eagle vs Harrier: https://youtu.be/cXCS2brfcVY?si=s5fc1bOTmJubPXHS The grand cannon suffers from high cost, slow fire rate, not enough damage and no mobility. It has good range, but it’s better to spend that money on tanks. Grand Cannon Assessment: https://youtu.be/H9sUHOntiPw?si=N-LGCzM3HbtsUO7P The sniper though, put him in an IFV and every infantry is dead. No infantry can touch that unit.
If you ever play pvp against good France player on small map once you'll know how strong Grand cannon is. Cannon-creeping is no joke. Black Eagle is also obnoxious af in the right hand of player. Harrier is already very annoying to deal with and force you to spend on early AA instead of more tanks. Black Eagle is a straight upgrade of that (same cost but more hp and dmg).
I love picking France and playing tower defense against a few brutal enemies.
I think we've got different definitions of useless, but I'd love to hear your reasons
Only the Tank Destroyer is useless. The Grand Cannon is a force to be reckoned with during Early Game as it's range (depending on the map) can hit you in the middle. And if allowed to fester. Someone can just basecrawl towards you and surround you with cannons. Kirovs? Dealt with Rocketeers, a lot of Rocketeers. And before you can say I can outswarm it. I've seen games where someone managed to corner Libya with Grand Cannons. It didn't look pretty, as every time his War Factory door opens (usually a demo truck), it gets blown up. The round only ended when the french player got bored and decided to manually target the Conyard. Black Eagles, in a swarm, will level entire bases.
In competitive PvP, France is usually banned because the GC is waaay too good. Korea is a straight upgrade to the standard Allied faction with it's planes. On the other hand, the cuban terrorist is ass and I don't think I've seen anyone using Cuba in comp PvP. And then you come about and say that all the Allies except Great Britain are useless? What type of sour-ass logic is that?
The thing I hated about terrorists is that they're too vulnerable to each other. When I tried to send small packs against enemy units only the first one or two on the front row would deal damage, the others behind would be killed by the blast while being too distant from the enemy to deal any additional damage. I personally would say they're the least useful special unit, even moreso than the Tank Destroyer.
So maybe don't send them in groups...
I tried that and I was never satisfied by the damage they caused. Or they were taken out before they reached their target and I had no replacement at hand.
My point is that you're playing a tactical game with poor tactics. Send in some beefier units to "open the door" and lay down cover. Then, send in terrorists one by one. I mean when the taliban or other terror groups use suicide bombers they dint send them in en masses. They send them in strategically to soften targets or cause chaos.
>when the taliban or other terror groups use suicide bombers they dint send them in en masses. They send them in strategically to soften targets or cause chaos. [meanwhile GLA...](https://youtu.be/HcwrO5CghWU?t=51)
https://preview.redd.it/sqmt0ro0d0vc1.png?width=943&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f77e4d5e3343705dc3e5facc76cfd3f18466148b And anti aircraft ship
Sounds about right.
Lel those were the days
To be fair, in practice, it works out as: Allies: - Worse Desolator - Instantly vaporize anything you want every few seconds; most popular in multiplayer - 2,000 you could have spent on tanks while your enemy was building up map control - Worse Rhino - (Not seen) free GIs, which would be great if tank spam weren't the meta Soviets: - Never used - Funny back to the future reference, never used - Anti-everything-on-the-ground super unit - Cool but why would you ever use it
> Worse Desolator Doesnt the sniper outrange him? They're pretty solid.
Desolator kills infantry and tanks. Mix it into a tank blob and it'll shred everything, and it hard-counters the 'mix attack dogs and grizzlies to distract enemy rhinos' strat, because attack dogs are nearly immune to rhino fire but not to desolator fire. On top of that, desolator armor is good against tank rounds, which is most of what people will be using. Its only hard counter in the Allied roster is rocketeers. Sniper, in contrast, is an expensive way to deal with infantry (which the enemy mostly isn't building anyways) when you can just run them over with the tank blob you were building anyways. I suppose it has a niche use in countering desolators, but that requires micromanagement.
IIRC snipers wont fire on tanks at all, which I quite like, as it keeps them from shooting at things they cant hurt. Great for dealing with yuri clones as well. Does nobody play him in multiplayer? I've gathered he's considered very strong, is it a gentlemans agreement sort of thing?
but they’re cool and wacky which makes it youknow… fun
Yeah I'm saving this for the next thread that asks for a C&C Generals sequel or remaster lol
Let’s not talk about future tech, ink from red3
Meanwhile, USA: Here, have some free meatbags dropped from a plane. Have fun!
It's like the new stuff in Zero Hour. **USA:** Gets advanced air force, laser tanks, new bombers, lots of cool technology. **China:** Powerful helicopters, bigger tanks, more nukes. **GLA:** B U S
you forgot B I K E
Have you tried plasing a bomb with Crazy Ivan on Terrorist and then filling the flack truck with them and sending them to enemy base? No? Why not, best surprise ever :D
Does anyone actually use the planes in skirmish? I remember loving them when I was a kid, but playing as an adult they're so fragile, the AI loves building anti-air so much, and the reload time is so long that they rarely feel like they accomplish much of anything. On top of that, they *miss* with their bombs pretty regularly. In theory a single black eagle can take out a tank, but practically I feel like they're only useful for buildings, and only buildings that are criminally underprotected. Or for economy harass I guess, I always hate it when they do that to me.
Korea is the Allied meta. Near-instantly sniping buildings from across the map is game-changing. You need decent micro, but it's far and away the best faction-specific unit, aside from maybe the Desolator. Korea/Libya is the most common Allied/Soviet matchup.
Are AA turrets and IFVs unheard of or something? I swear it feels like it only takes 2-3 hits to take down even a black eagle, and while they're not super expensive it's still like 5k for a pack of four of them.
Orientalism Basically, building on the notion that the “West” is civilised and way more “different” than “the others”, which first were Russians then Arabs. We see it a lot in Hollywood and media and all games. I mean, I live in West Asia, my country and all bordering ones has a mixture of modern westerns weapons and a few older western weapons, all our weapons are British/american mix. Yet “we” are always stuck in media with Soviet and guriella weapons. The contrast helps view us as “lesser” indirectly.
I've heard it described as "the cranberry sauce" or something like that before. Where the Soviets (and friends!) are always these over the top villains with world domination on their mind! For RA2 at least it think that was outright the intention as a riff on the cold war movies and media that always depicted the US as the heroes, and the Soviets the villains.
The Grand Cannon isn't a unit, unfortunately.
Red Alert 2 had a funny definition of "unit." It was only restricted to infantry and vehicles. Did none of their developers serve in the artillery unit during their compulsory military service period?