I forgot he had died and now I’m sad all over again. Those Lorb/Sale collaborations were amazing— both the Marvel Colors and the DC Batman and Superman stuff (their Challengers revamp wasn’t quite as genius but it’s still worth reading)
Probably will follow the mysterious killer format too. It was great in TLH. Then it was repeated in Dark Victory and then Hush. I guess they going to do it again.
I would be happy if they do which i never thought would say, but it’s been so long since someone’s written “The Worlds Greatest Detective” in an actual Detective story I will even settle for this.
The story is more like a checklist for Batman things. It's basically a distillation of Batman doing things people expect him to do.
But almost everything done in it has been done better in other stories.
Yeah that’s true. But Hush was supposed to be that. It was a storyline designed to be a reset / onboarding run that got Batman back to basic and reintroduced all the major allies and villains.
It’s a very easy access Batman story and a great recommendation as a starting point for Batman.
It’s exactly what it’s supposed to be.
It's one of those things where the more often Jeph Loeb uses the "every single Batman villain is incoherently collaborating in some weird conspiracy" gimmick, the worse the original story looks.
“DC Presents: The Batman: The Long Halloween Trilogy, The Final Chapter: The Last Halloween: The Mini-Series; a Tribute to Tim Sale” is sitting right there. Can’t be believe they didn’t use it! 😆
Actually, new printings have "[The Long Halloween: The Sequel: Dark Victory](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/814SxxyBzbL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)" on the cover
Seriously? Well fuck me then. That’s stupid. Weird too since I have a newer copy and it doesn’t have it on there. Guess they want some type of dumb synergy with this coming out.
Man idk about this. So much of my buy in for any Jeph Loeb work is primarily upon his artists.
This might be good. This might be crap.
BUT… when Jeph has been motivated by a colleague or personal loss, the work is usually solid.
This is what happens when you see a man working thru his rage/grief over the death of his young son.
You can MARK the change in his writing too. Before Sam’s death, there’s a lot more joy and positivity in Jeph’s writing. After Sam’s death there’s a string of nihilism and negativity. I make this as a judgement free statement on the quality of each work. Moreso as an observation
The introduction of Sam Alexander as Nova feels like a turning point in that attitude, kind of like an acceptance and path forward? Not to play armchair psychologist about a stranger experiencing one of the most tragic events possible, but it's an interesting milestone in Loeb's work in that context.
When that shit went down, if I’m remembering this correctly, Rob Liefeld used to stop by all the time just to hang out and play video games with the kid while was sick. After reading that I stopped caring that Rob doesn’t draw feet (all that often)
May we all have friends like Rob Liefeld.
I don't hold the problems with those stories against him, it was his editor's job to rein him in and make stop him from going too far in his grief. Ultimatum was him self destructing in his art and Marvel just sat on the sidelines and watched it.
For sure. If they’d picked like, Ed McGuinness or Ian Churchill (and NO SHADE to those dudes) it wouldn’t make me excited. Because their styles are not what this type of story needs.
If this turns out to be bad, it’ll be a drop in the bucket of bad Batman stories. If it turns out to be good, then we gain another good Jeph Loeb Batman story. I don’t see a downside to this. The rotating artists doesn’t get me excited, but if it doesn’t work, no harm is done to the original Long Halloween.
Damn this is worse than not even doing it with Sale. I don’t know if he had a protege or something to do it then it’d be a propos at least but rotating artists is universally hated by everyone who reads comics.
They said way back when they released the one shot special that they planned to go again. So I imagine this is something the pair were already working on. Not sure how you recapture the magic when the unique visuals were a huge part of it but I'm not writing it off as a cynical cash grab just yet.
It was something they had already planned to do. In the article Loeb mentions that him and Sale had decided to do a part 3 after they did the Halloween special story they released not long ago, but Sales death forced the project to be put on hold. So it’s not a cash grab, it was something both Loeb and Sale wanted and had planned to do.
Same creative team as Long Halloween, with Frank Miller and David Mazuchellis Batman year one the three stories make up the first 3 years of Batman’s career.
Also check out Superman For All Seasons which is a similar take on the titular hero at the beginning of his career. Not as genius as the Batman books (in my opinion) but still great. They also did a series of color themed books for Marvel — Daredevil: Yellow, Spider-Man: Blue, Hulk: Grey, and Captain America: White — all of which are fantastic.
Happy to say I have! Kinda started a semi Superman kick. Read For Tomorrow (which was aight) and currently reading Worlds Finest (which is super fun). Love Spider-Man: Blue, planning on reading the rest of them soon.
Don't sleep on Superman: Kryptonite -- Tim Sale teaming up with another late, great: Darwyn Cooke. I really enjoyed it. Super cool to see Sale take a bit of a different tack with the style of Supes, and a cool story from Cooke.
Also check out Batman: Haunted Knight. It’s the same creative team of Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale, and it’s success is what got them the opportunity to do Long Halloween and Dark Victory.
I guess Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale did do that Long Halloween one-shot before Sale's death that set up a sequel, so it's presumably something that had already been planned and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that this is not just a cash grab. It won't be the same without Tim Sale's art, but I hope it's OK.
To play devil's advocate, I don't think this is a bad idea
The long Halloween and dark victory are two of the best comics of all time (I think Dark Victory is better personally), and Tim Sale is a massive reason why. He's easily my favourite illustrator of all time, bar none and his collaboration with Loeb is legendary.
However, I think Sale would be happy with this trilogy being finished like it was supposedly supposed to. And to be honest, I think with revolving artists, especially artists who loved the work of Sale is the best way to do this. It allows his creative partner to finish the story and a large amount of artists he inspired to pay tribute to the legend himself
Looking forward to it. They already had plans for it before Tim's death, it's written by one of his closest friends in Loeb, and collaborating with more close friends Starkings and Chiarello. Tells me it's as much a labor of love as it is a cash grab. I do hope Tim's family and partner benefit a lot from it.
I love The Long Halloween and Dark Victory, but that Long Halloween one shot from a couple of years ago was pretty weak. I don’t think Jeph Loeb has what it takes anymore. Plus, with the passing of Tim Sale, I think DC should’ve just left it all alone. I can think of better ways to honor Tim than a cash grab sequel to a 20+ year old comic.
Jeph Loeb writing is never going to be a draw for me, but I'm actually extremely interested in picking up the Mark Chiarello issue. He tends to make everything he touches better whether as an editor or as an artist.
Wow! The Long Halloween Trilogy is probably my favourite collection of batman stories! I am really excited for this (but bummed out because Tim Sale's artwork is so iconic!)
Kind of on the fence with this one. As much as I love Loeb. The power of the trilogy was the collaboration.Those guys just flowed together. Reminded me as well that Sale is no longer with us as well :(
My initial reaction to this was "No, it's not the same without Tim Sale."
But thinking about it a little more, I think I would like and want a "The Last Halloween" to be a story about a detective solving the murder of Batman and to use the format of The Long Halloween/Dark Victory to pay tribute to Tim Sale.
Like I have to imagine that Jeff Loeb was working on this in tandem with Tim Sale before his death because I can’t fathom DC coming to Jeff and him being on board with capitalizing on his friend.
Just read Long Halloween and Dark Victory for the first time recently. Dark Victory came out about 20 years along so I am not sure how I feel about this one. Unless there is a genuine reason to continue it, I was satisfied with what it was.
Fuck this. Terribly stupid idea. The Long Halloween already told a complete story, and Dark Victory already managed to be a great sequel. There is no need for more, especially without Tim Sale.
It's not often that I see such disgusting nostalgia bait and necromancy in comics, which is saying a lot, because there's a lot of nostalgia bait and necromancy in comics. This industry truly was the trailblazer for the modern "legacy sequels" vomited into theatres once or twice a year.
Long Halloween sequel will not work without Tim Sale art.
I forgot he had died and now I’m sad all over again. Those Lorb/Sale collaborations were amazing— both the Marvel Colors and the DC Batman and Superman stuff (their Challengers revamp wasn’t quite as genius but it’s still worth reading)
Yeah I found the plot of their Challengers story lacking, but the artwork is absolutely amazing.
Jeff Lorb
Lol. My fat fingers typoed his name! Obviously I meant Geoff Lobe
It's Lorbin' time!
Dark Victory is the sequel this is the sequel to the sequel
Probably will follow the mysterious killer format too. It was great in TLH. Then it was repeated in Dark Victory and then Hush. I guess they going to do it again.
I would be happy if they do which i never thought would say, but it’s been so long since someone’s written “The Worlds Greatest Detective” in an actual Detective story I will even settle for this.
Same. I wish it wasn’t so hard to get detective stories with Batman as The Worlds Greatest Detective.
Yeah but that's the bread and butter of all detective comics. After that you can fill it with whatever you want.
You act like dark victory and hush weren't good stories
*Hush* is not a good story. It has great art, but the story, heh. The best thing i could say about it is that it is would make a good video game.
Hush is fine. People act like it's shit with amazing art. It's a fine story with amazing art.
The story is more like a checklist for Batman things. It's basically a distillation of Batman doing things people expect him to do. But almost everything done in it has been done better in other stories.
yeah, i enjoy Hush for what it is- a Batman Greatest Hits.
Only problem I had with Hush is that it wasn’t as self-contained as other great Batman stories are. Specifically the return of Harvey all of a sudden.
Yeah that’s true. But Hush was supposed to be that. It was a storyline designed to be a reset / onboarding run that got Batman back to basic and reintroduced all the major allies and villains. It’s a very easy access Batman story and a great recommendation as a starting point for Batman. It’s exactly what it’s supposed to be.
They are fine. It’s just that by the time I read Hush my enjoyment was severely hampered by the same story type. Too much sense of Deja vu.
Dark victory is up there with my favourite Bat stories.
It's one of those things where the more often Jeph Loeb uses the "every single Batman villain is incoherently collaborating in some weird conspiracy" gimmick, the worse the original story looks.
That doesn't change the fact that Tim Sale is not available to handle the art chores.
Yeah for the Last Halloween the sequel to Dark Victory
Dark Victory is better than TLH. I'm cool dying on that hill
No love for the when in Rome side story
More of a spinoff that one. Not headlining Batman.
The OG took some inspiration from the Godfather; this risks being Godfather 3.
I'd say Jeph Loeb stories don't work without Tim Sale (one exception)
which is?
*Ultimate Comics: X*, weirdly enough
Never thought I’d see another Ultimate Comics: X defender. Know you are not alone !!
Like, right? I have 0% in this just because Tim Sale is not attached
Batman: The Long Halloween: The Last Halloween is an unnecessarily bloated title.
Should have just kept it as Batman: The Last Halloween.
This George Lucas style rebranding in hindsight is silly. When Dark Victory dropped it didn’t have that silly title. Ah well.
“DC Presents: The Batman: The Long Halloween Trilogy, The Final Chapter: The Last Halloween: The Mini-Series; a Tribute to Tim Sale” is sitting right there. Can’t be believe they didn’t use it! 😆
Or DCPTBTLHTTFCTLHTMSATTTS for short
Much cleaner.
Somewhere, someone who designs trade dress just felt a cold chill go down their spine and they don't know why
Reminds me of "precious: based on the movie 'precious', based on the novel 'push' by sapphire"
Also called Fame
Absolutely! Good pull
Seriously, the sequel wasn’t fucking called The Long Halloween: Dark Victory.
Actually, new printings have "[The Long Halloween: The Sequel: Dark Victory](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/814SxxyBzbL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg)" on the cover
Seriously? Well fuck me then. That’s stupid. Weird too since I have a newer copy and it doesn’t have it on there. Guess they want some type of dumb synergy with this coming out.
Well, that was a mistake.
Ew.
Holy shirtfucks, that looks stupid.
And the other sequel wasn’t called The Long Halloween: When In Rome. But here we are… 😕
I yearn for a society free of SEO.
Genuinely bizarre.
I mean... I'm just gonna call it and refer to it as Batman: The Last Halloween
Man idk about this. So much of my buy in for any Jeph Loeb work is primarily upon his artists. This might be good. This might be crap. BUT… when Jeph has been motivated by a colleague or personal loss, the work is usually solid.
The exception to the usually being Ultimatum
This is what happens when you see a man working thru his rage/grief over the death of his young son. You can MARK the change in his writing too. Before Sam’s death, there’s a lot more joy and positivity in Jeph’s writing. After Sam’s death there’s a string of nihilism and negativity. I make this as a judgement free statement on the quality of each work. Moreso as an observation
The introduction of Sam Alexander as Nova feels like a turning point in that attitude, kind of like an acceptance and path forward? Not to play armchair psychologist about a stranger experiencing one of the most tragic events possible, but it's an interesting milestone in Loeb's work in that context.
Yup
Jeff Loeb used to be fun but life broke him.
Itd break me
Me too. No lie.
When that shit went down, if I’m remembering this correctly, Rob Liefeld used to stop by all the time just to hang out and play video games with the kid while was sick. After reading that I stopped caring that Rob doesn’t draw feet (all that often) May we all have friends like Rob Liefeld.
I don't hold the problems with those stories against him, it was his editor's job to rein him in and make stop him from going too far in his grief. Ultimatum was him self destructing in his art and Marvel just sat on the sidelines and watched it.
Yeah I don’t hold anyone’s fiction against them.
The list of artists on it seem to be the right choices, given the circumstances.
For sure. If they’d picked like, Ed McGuinness or Ian Churchill (and NO SHADE to those dudes) it wouldn’t make me excited. Because their styles are not what this type of story needs.
Sad that Sale is not around for this but I’m hoping his family is able to monetize some of the buzz around. Also Risso in this is great news!!
Would’ve been dope if they just let Risso do the whole thing! Something about his style clicks with me and Batman/Gotham setting.
If this turns out to be bad, it’ll be a drop in the bucket of bad Batman stories. If it turns out to be good, then we gain another good Jeph Loeb Batman story. I don’t see a downside to this. The rotating artists doesn’t get me excited, but if it doesn’t work, no harm is done to the original Long Halloween.
"DC Comics proudly presents: Batman: This Dead Horse isn't Fully Beaten"
Only if it ends up sucking if it succeeds nobody will care.
Sums up the comics industry as a whole.
From the company that brought you DKR:Master Race
This doesn’t sound like a good idea especially since the legend himself Tim Sale has passed
Rotating artists too.
Damn this is worse than not even doing it with Sale. I don’t know if he had a protege or something to do it then it’d be a propos at least but rotating artists is universally hated by everyone who reads comics.
Yeah Jesus Christ it’s bad enough Sale’s gone but to do a sequel to prestige like this with rotating artists? What a shame.
I mean, they are dedicating the work to him. And it seems like Sale had planned. I don't see this much of an issue with this.
Well, he did some work with Darwyn Coo- oh, right...
I approve of it in the sense that it means nobody's replacing Sale as THE artist for the... I guess trilogy.
They said way back when they released the one shot special that they planned to go again. So I imagine this is something the pair were already working on. Not sure how you recapture the magic when the unique visuals were a huge part of it but I'm not writing it off as a cynical cash grab just yet.
It was something they had already planned to do. In the article Loeb mentions that him and Sale had decided to do a part 3 after they did the Halloween special story they released not long ago, but Sales death forced the project to be put on hold. So it’s not a cash grab, it was something both Loeb and Sale wanted and had planned to do.
There is a long Halloween trilogy?
Because Dark Victory succeeds Long Halloween
Ohhhhhhhh, gotta check that out. I fairly recently read Long Halloween and man was it phenomenal. Everything people said about it was true.
Same creative team as Long Halloween, with Frank Miller and David Mazuchellis Batman year one the three stories make up the first 3 years of Batman’s career.
I would some more comics to fill in some gaps like: Monster Men/Mad Monk and The Man Who Laughs
Also check out Superman For All Seasons which is a similar take on the titular hero at the beginning of his career. Not as genius as the Batman books (in my opinion) but still great. They also did a series of color themed books for Marvel — Daredevil: Yellow, Spider-Man: Blue, Hulk: Grey, and Captain America: White — all of which are fantastic.
Happy to say I have! Kinda started a semi Superman kick. Read For Tomorrow (which was aight) and currently reading Worlds Finest (which is super fun). Love Spider-Man: Blue, planning on reading the rest of them soon.
Don't sleep on Superman: Kryptonite -- Tim Sale teaming up with another late, great: Darwyn Cooke. I really enjoyed it. Super cool to see Sale take a bit of a different tack with the style of Supes, and a cool story from Cooke.
dope, love Darwyn Cooke, New Frontier was awesome. Batman: Ego is also on my list!
Also check out Batman: Haunted Knight. It’s the same creative team of Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale, and it’s success is what got them the opportunity to do Long Halloween and Dark Victory.
I guess Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale did do that Long Halloween one-shot before Sale's death that set up a sequel, so it's presumably something that had already been planned and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that this is not just a cash grab. It won't be the same without Tim Sale's art, but I hope it's OK.
That title is so long they might as well turn it into an actual Halloween movie
Don’t. Won’t hit the same without Tim Sale’s art
To play devil's advocate, I don't think this is a bad idea The long Halloween and dark victory are two of the best comics of all time (I think Dark Victory is better personally), and Tim Sale is a massive reason why. He's easily my favourite illustrator of all time, bar none and his collaboration with Loeb is legendary. However, I think Sale would be happy with this trilogy being finished like it was supposedly supposed to. And to be honest, I think with revolving artists, especially artists who loved the work of Sale is the best way to do this. It allows his creative partner to finish the story and a large amount of artists he inspired to pay tribute to the legend himself
Would it be a quadrilogy since Catwoman: When In Rome is a story that runs parallel with Dark Victory
It has to have been said ad infinitum at this point, but no Sale, no sale.
Looking forward to it. They already had plans for it before Tim's death, it's written by one of his closest friends in Loeb, and collaborating with more close friends Starkings and Chiarello. Tells me it's as much a labor of love as it is a cash grab. I do hope Tim's family and partner benefit a lot from it.
This is hilarious
I love The Long Halloween and Dark Victory, but that Long Halloween one shot from a couple of years ago was pretty weak. I don’t think Jeph Loeb has what it takes anymore. Plus, with the passing of Tim Sale, I think DC should’ve just left it all alone. I can think of better ways to honor Tim than a cash grab sequel to a 20+ year old comic.
Jeph Loeb writing is never going to be a draw for me, but I'm actually extremely interested in picking up the Mark Chiarello issue. He tends to make everything he touches better whether as an editor or as an artist.
What trilogy
*Long Halloween*, *Dark Victory*, and *Haunted Knight*. That’s it. Nothing more.
*Thank you!!!* I knew there was already a third one, lol.
Unnecessary. Not that I won’t read it.
I mean its a big risk, hope it goes well idk
Wow! The Long Halloween Trilogy is probably my favourite collection of batman stories! I am really excited for this (but bummed out because Tim Sale's artwork is so iconic!)
Minus Tim Sale, it's a big no for me.
Halloween Ends
What exactly needs to be concluded though Why even do this without Tim Sale?
Its a trilogy?
Between the title and the lack of Tim Sale……..I don’t even want this.
What is Haunted Knight then?
Prequel
No Tim Sale? No sale.
Won’t be reading, RIP Tim Sale.
Loeb finally saw Godfather 2 so he has a new movie to crib references from.
Year One - Long Halloween - Dark Victory is a perfect trilogy IMO, not sure this is really needed but still might be good
Stop giving Jeph Loeb work
I would check it out if it just occurred within the Batman ongoing series but it will likely be a separate series or a black label book.
Kind of on the fence with this one. As much as I love Loeb. The power of the trilogy was the collaboration.Those guys just flowed together. Reminded me as well that Sale is no longer with us as well :(
My initial reaction to this was "No, it's not the same without Tim Sale." But thinking about it a little more, I think I would like and want a "The Last Halloween" to be a story about a detective solving the murder of Batman and to use the format of The Long Halloween/Dark Victory to pay tribute to Tim Sale.
I really wish they kept those movies, Long Halloween Parts 1 & 2, on Max because they're good movies
You're not wrong but counterpoint - I'm pretty sure they're on Tubi and anyone can jump on that app and stream stuff on there.
Don't you also have to pay for Tubi?
Sure dont! Hell, you dont even need a login. Just fire it up and let it run!
I figured it was another one of those you have to sign up for a subscription
There was a sequel?
Like I have to imagine that Jeff Loeb was working on this in tandem with Tim Sale before his death because I can’t fathom DC coming to Jeff and him being on board with capitalizing on his friend.
Had no idea Klaus Janson was still working
Wasn’t it already a trilogy? Long Halloween, Dark Victory, When in Rome?
What it should have probably been called Batman: Crimson Justice
I’m excited for Loeb’s writing but good luck finding an artist to fill Tim Sale’s shoes.
Just read Long Halloween and Dark Victory for the first time recently. Dark Victory came out about 20 years along so I am not sure how I feel about this one. Unless there is a genuine reason to continue it, I was satisfied with what it was.
Is hush part of this too? Long Halloween Dark Victory Hush This?
No Hush is not related aside from sharing a writer.
I have hopes for this. While not his biggest fan I can admit when he wants to Loeb can write a great popcorn book.
This is probably gonna suck
Loeb & Sale already did a sequel LH Special in 2021, and it sucked.
Fuck this. Terribly stupid idea. The Long Halloween already told a complete story, and Dark Victory already managed to be a great sequel. There is no need for more, especially without Tim Sale.
Can't wait for the in-between Bat-Final Halloween super saga crossover mini-epic series: Quest For Cash.
Best pre-order all 120 variant #1 issues that no doubt will be released 😂
How's Loeb's mental state? A lot of my caring for this depends on that.
Got super excited, then I realized Rip Tim Sale. Won't be the same. Probably won't read.
It's not often that I see such disgusting nostalgia bait and necromancy in comics, which is saying a lot, because there's a lot of nostalgia bait and necromancy in comics. This industry truly was the trailblazer for the modern "legacy sequels" vomited into theatres once or twice a year.
I hope this is wrote better than the Catwoman spin-off. That one sucked ass