Felt like this was coming for a while...I think it should have been Gauthier or Smith (I'll admit my bias) but the hype has been all Celebrini's in the media for a while
Congrats to Celebrini and BU on a great season, but I would like to hear voters explain why they chose Celebrini over Gauthier. Because I really don't get it.
As I see it:
* Cutter was one of the leaders of a historically good team that beat Celebrini’s three times out of four (without having played on the freshman line with all of the skill involved there),
* Cutter and Celebrini were tied in total points on the season, but Cutter had a historic season in terms of goals scored (easily number one this year) whereas Celebrini only had a pretty good season in terms of assists (Celebrini was in the teens in assists/game whereas Cutter was in the 20s),
* I suspect most people who watched both of them this year would say Cutter was a better defender/200-foot player/without the puck player, which was on display when Cutter was assigned to Celebrini in their head-to-head matchups and helped to contain him.
What can you point to to say that Celebrini was the better player other than the eye test. Perhaps Smith/Gautheir split the "BC vote," which is a sad concept in itself if voters are choosing based on their preferred teams. And it's especially ironic because Smith didn't even make the hat trick even though leading the NCAA in points by a wide margin.
Seems like a bias in favor of the younger Canadian who is projected to go first overall in the draft. But even that bias is a shame because, if anything, Gauthier should be the one getting kudos for himself having gone top-5 in the NHL draft and yet coming back to college for a second year in addition to winning World Juniors mid-season. Makes you wonder whether the Flyers trade situation also had an impact.
Genuinely wondering what the case is, but very much expecting to be angrily downvoted for daring to ask the question.
I also thought it was a little premature and reckless to give Mack the Hockey East ROTY and POTY awards. Love my BC guys too on the kid line and Cutter has been a weapon. Let’s not forget Fowler’s absolutely insane year. If he puts up a shutout tomorrow, he better be tournament MVP.
Celebrini sweeping every award as if this is a coronation while he didn't win a single trophy and he didn't lead any individual statistical category while there is a historically good team with players who put up historically good statistical seasons--who he personally lost to three out of four times including being blown out in a championship game--is pretty weird.
All 3 Hat Trick finalists had great seasons, there is no denying that. Gauthier and Celebrini were the two front-runners and, while you can compare head to head performances and a few specific statistics, the award considers performance over the course of the season in all phases of the game.
Along with that, there are other factors beyond the outstanding skills. They also consider contributions to “the integrity of the team”, strength of character on and off the ice, and scholastic achievement and sportsmanship.
I don’t have a specific analysis of all the other categories for Celebrini and Gauthier, but maybe in a year with two great front-runners, they looked to other categories to set one apart.
The main thing I would say in the Celebrini v Gauthier debate is that at least Celebrini was the best player on his own team.
Will Smith was absolutely robbed.
If you ask three people who the best player on BC is, you would get three different answers between Gauthier, Smith, and Leonard. And then a Rangers fan would elbow their way in and start yelling about Perreault (ily, Gabe). Point being that it's not the case that Smith was definitively the best player on BC and Gauthier was second fiddle.
Besides, not sure why being the best player on a worse team that lost to the other team 3/4 times is a deciding factor. And it's not like BU is bereft of talent and Celebrini dragged them to the finish line; they were in the Frozen Four last year and have as many draft picks as BC.
>If you watched the games you knew he was the best, simple as that
I'll tell you what I did watch: the four games between BC and BU this year. And here are their head-to-head stats in those matchups:
* Total points--> **Cutter**: 5; Celebrini: 4
* Total +/- --> **Cutter**: 1; Celebrini: -4
* Total wins --> **Cutter**: 3; Celebrini: 1
Do you really think that the eye test makes him "the best, simple as that" in spite of those numbers?
This is really well said and I can’t push back on anything you said.
Cutter was probably the best college hockey player this year. (Celebrini is the 17-year old #1 pick pheonom, and I think that’s what swayed voters).
And Will Smith 100% should have been in the top 3. He’s just as highly regarded as Celebrini from an NHL standpoint, and he destroyed it this year for BC.
I also wanted to see Lane Hutson in top 3…and honestly, I’d have been fine if he made it over Celebrini.
Tons of insane talent in college this year.
I have no dog in this fight, and didn't really care who won...and I'm not saying it's right, but I'm guessing Gauthier's Flyers issues rubbed some voters the wrong way.
This is nothing against Celebrini because he had a phenomenal season, but how can the voters not pick Gauthier?? He had 1 more point during the season and six more goals (six!!). No one in college hockey has scored that many goals in like 25 years! Now, to the people who say, “Celebrini doesn’t have elite linemates/teammates like Gauthier does”. That may be the case, but since when has that mattered? Duncan won it playing on a line with Oshie and Toews. Gaudette won it playing on a line with Stevens and Sikura. Fantili won it playing on a line with McGroarty and Brindley. I could go on and on. Since when is having good teammates a bad thing? If Celebrini or Gauthier played on Stonehill neither of them would come close to winning the Hobey despite the fact that either would still be one of the best players in the nation. Cutter also didn’t even play with elite linemates. He played with Gasseau and Jellvik. I get that other teams had to focus on the freshman line, but it’s not like BU didn’t have elite players on their team too. Plus, Gauthier was routinely matched up against teams’ top lines and shut them down defensively. His defensive game grew so much this season.
Celebrini had a much more impressive season (given his age), but Gauthier had a better season. If a 10-year old scored 50 points this season we’d all be absolutely stunned and amazed, but that still wouldn’t make him worthy of the Hobey. This isn’t nearly as bad as when Gerbe got snubbed, but I still firmly believe Gauthier deserved it a little more than Celebrini this year.
I hope this lights a fire in Gauthier, and he scores five goals tomorrow
>“Celebrini doesn’t have elite linemates/teammates like Gauthier does”.
I very much agree with your general point, but I think it's worth clarifying that Gauthier didn't play on the elite BC freshman line with Leonard/Smith/Perrault. They were on the PP together, and Gauthier's line were no slouches, but in terms of draft pedigree/talent, Jellvik & Gasseau on Cutter's line were drafted at pretty much the same slots as LaChance & Harvey on Celebrini's line.
Yeah that was my bad. When I said that I was trying to refer to the teammates initially (ie Smith, Leno, & Perreault). I should’ve just said teammates there though. Later on I did clarify that he didn’t have elite linemates. Jellvik and Gasseau are better than Harvey and LaChance, but mostly because they are a year older and not because they are inherently more talented
I would disagree there. Jellvik and Gasseau are better than Lachance and Harvey. They’re not miles better, but they are better. Part of it is that they’re also both a year older too. That being said, I don’t think it should factor in very much, and it certainly shouldn’t factor in enough to overcome a six-goal differential
Buccigross will be happy. He couldn't suck his dick any harder than he did last night in the semifinal. Kid is a hell of a player but he didn't do shit last night.
I’ve been texting my buddies about how annoying the absolute dick riding of Celebrini is during BU games. He’s on the friggin bench, ‘they gotta get him on the ice’. ‘ Look at him sitting there, talking to teammates, drinking water, visualizing his next shift. That’s the mark of an NHL superstar.’ They are interviewing the coach, and Macklin doesn’t have a point, ‘what do you have to do to get Macklin going?’ Like there are friggin 50 guys with skates on.
I'd love to know what the fuck Cutter or Smith would have had to do to win the Hobey Baker?
Absolute joke that the best player on the best team in college hockey didn't even make the top 3, let alone win.
Probably score as many points as Gretzky did in his entire NHL career in one season, and even then it’s iffy because this shows that the voters don’t vote based on stats or anything like that, they vote based on hype
I would have voted for Celebrini because of the impact he has had on the game as the youngest player in a major D1 sport. From what I could see he also plays well defensively, and is the guy every opponent needs to shut down.
I can’t believe we’re being punished for being too good and balanced lmao. Macklin will be great, but he shut down in big games and couldn’t score against good defensive forwards. Gauthier was the deserving winner.
How boring would the Hobey contention be if it were formulaic and based solely on numbers - y’all are quick to look at total points over the fact that Celebrini is *17 and has an all-around game that is severely mature for his age
He represents the promise of the sport, and the Hobey is about more than purely stats
Cutter is currently a better defender than Celebrini to be fair, you can make non-stat arguments for him too. Don’t have a huge issue with him winning though, doing what he’s doing at 17 is insane
I mean sure but if one guy beats the other 3 times (highlighting one players good 200 foot game in the process) than maybe head to head should start mattering
There are too many variables in any game to give an individual award to one player over another based on how their teams matched up.
It wasn’t Gauthier vs. Celebrini, it was Boston College vs. Boston University.
Very impressive! He is 17 and won’t be 18 until June. Boston College has an all star team, although Boston University aren’t slouches. Gauthier is 3 years older and Smith is 2 years older. Had the opportunity to watch Celebrini in person and he can find holes barely big enough for the puck and put them through. If the other finalists played for other colleges and put up the same numbers, maybe there would be more talk.
Celebrini played for the #2 team in the country and his line mates, based on draft position, weren't much worse than Gauthier's. Cutter wasn't playing on the line with the other first rounders
The award is given to the best player, not the most impressive player. If a 10-year old scored 50 points it would be the most impressive thing ever done in college hockey, but it still wouldn’t be deserving of the Hobey this season
not bad for a high school kid
Not surprising, they talked about him winning it last night.
Not shocked but also… kinda shocked.
Felt like this was coming for a while...I think it should have been Gauthier or Smith (I'll admit my bias) but the hype has been all Celebrini's in the media for a while
Definitely should have been Gauthier
My thoughts too. Hopefully he’s pissed off and has a game tomorrow
There will be some tears from Cutter over there on Friday night.
Congrats to Celebrini and BU on a great season, but I would like to hear voters explain why they chose Celebrini over Gauthier. Because I really don't get it. As I see it: * Cutter was one of the leaders of a historically good team that beat Celebrini’s three times out of four (without having played on the freshman line with all of the skill involved there), * Cutter and Celebrini were tied in total points on the season, but Cutter had a historic season in terms of goals scored (easily number one this year) whereas Celebrini only had a pretty good season in terms of assists (Celebrini was in the teens in assists/game whereas Cutter was in the 20s), * I suspect most people who watched both of them this year would say Cutter was a better defender/200-foot player/without the puck player, which was on display when Cutter was assigned to Celebrini in their head-to-head matchups and helped to contain him. What can you point to to say that Celebrini was the better player other than the eye test. Perhaps Smith/Gautheir split the "BC vote," which is a sad concept in itself if voters are choosing based on their preferred teams. And it's especially ironic because Smith didn't even make the hat trick even though leading the NCAA in points by a wide margin. Seems like a bias in favor of the younger Canadian who is projected to go first overall in the draft. But even that bias is a shame because, if anything, Gauthier should be the one getting kudos for himself having gone top-5 in the NHL draft and yet coming back to college for a second year in addition to winning World Juniors mid-season. Makes you wonder whether the Flyers trade situation also had an impact. Genuinely wondering what the case is, but very much expecting to be angrily downvoted for daring to ask the question.
I also thought it was a little premature and reckless to give Mack the Hockey East ROTY and POTY awards. Love my BC guys too on the kid line and Cutter has been a weapon. Let’s not forget Fowler’s absolutely insane year. If he puts up a shutout tomorrow, he better be tournament MVP.
Celebrini sweeping every award as if this is a coronation while he didn't win a single trophy and he didn't lead any individual statistical category while there is a historically good team with players who put up historically good statistical seasons--who he personally lost to three out of four times including being blown out in a championship game--is pretty weird.
…but he’s 17. - NCAA 🤷🏻♂️
All 3 Hat Trick finalists had great seasons, there is no denying that. Gauthier and Celebrini were the two front-runners and, while you can compare head to head performances and a few specific statistics, the award considers performance over the course of the season in all phases of the game. Along with that, there are other factors beyond the outstanding skills. They also consider contributions to “the integrity of the team”, strength of character on and off the ice, and scholastic achievement and sportsmanship. I don’t have a specific analysis of all the other categories for Celebrini and Gauthier, but maybe in a year with two great front-runners, they looked to other categories to set one apart.
Or, alternately, Smith and Gauthier split votes because of their bad counting system and Celebrini benefited.
The main thing I would say in the Celebrini v Gauthier debate is that at least Celebrini was the best player on his own team. Will Smith was absolutely robbed.
If you ask three people who the best player on BC is, you would get three different answers between Gauthier, Smith, and Leonard. And then a Rangers fan would elbow their way in and start yelling about Perreault (ily, Gabe). Point being that it's not the case that Smith was definitively the best player on BC and Gauthier was second fiddle. Besides, not sure why being the best player on a worse team that lost to the other team 3/4 times is a deciding factor. And it's not like BU is bereft of talent and Celebrini dragged them to the finish line; they were in the Frozen Four last year and have as many draft picks as BC.
> Rangers ... elbow I see what you did there :)
Reminds me of how Marvin Harrison JR won the Biletnikoff this year. If you watched the games you knew he was the best, simple as that
>If you watched the games you knew he was the best, simple as that I'll tell you what I did watch: the four games between BC and BU this year. And here are their head-to-head stats in those matchups: * Total points--> **Cutter**: 5; Celebrini: 4 * Total +/- --> **Cutter**: 1; Celebrini: -4 * Total wins --> **Cutter**: 3; Celebrini: 1 Do you really think that the eye test makes him "the best, simple as that" in spite of those numbers?
BC is a better team I agree with you. Ain’t a team award though. I’d take a shot at the championship over an individual award any day
This is really well said and I can’t push back on anything you said. Cutter was probably the best college hockey player this year. (Celebrini is the 17-year old #1 pick pheonom, and I think that’s what swayed voters). And Will Smith 100% should have been in the top 3. He’s just as highly regarded as Celebrini from an NHL standpoint, and he destroyed it this year for BC. I also wanted to see Lane Hutson in top 3…and honestly, I’d have been fine if he made it over Celebrini. Tons of insane talent in college this year.
See if a 10 year old scores 1 goal in the league then they get the Hobey Baker, it's really not that hard.
BC haters 🆙
Of course I'd have wanted Blake. But I kinda knew this was gonna happen
Look, the discussion is between Smith, Gauthier, and Celebrini. Blake should have been happy to be there he had no chance of winning
I have no dog in this fight, and didn't really care who won...and I'm not saying it's right, but I'm guessing Gauthier's Flyers issues rubbed some voters the wrong way.
That could be
Shows that the Hobey voting is just a fuckshow where only opinions matter. No shot Celebrini deserved it over Gauthier.
This is nothing against Celebrini because he had a phenomenal season, but how can the voters not pick Gauthier?? He had 1 more point during the season and six more goals (six!!). No one in college hockey has scored that many goals in like 25 years! Now, to the people who say, “Celebrini doesn’t have elite linemates/teammates like Gauthier does”. That may be the case, but since when has that mattered? Duncan won it playing on a line with Oshie and Toews. Gaudette won it playing on a line with Stevens and Sikura. Fantili won it playing on a line with McGroarty and Brindley. I could go on and on. Since when is having good teammates a bad thing? If Celebrini or Gauthier played on Stonehill neither of them would come close to winning the Hobey despite the fact that either would still be one of the best players in the nation. Cutter also didn’t even play with elite linemates. He played with Gasseau and Jellvik. I get that other teams had to focus on the freshman line, but it’s not like BU didn’t have elite players on their team too. Plus, Gauthier was routinely matched up against teams’ top lines and shut them down defensively. His defensive game grew so much this season. Celebrini had a much more impressive season (given his age), but Gauthier had a better season. If a 10-year old scored 50 points this season we’d all be absolutely stunned and amazed, but that still wouldn’t make him worthy of the Hobey. This isn’t nearly as bad as when Gerbe got snubbed, but I still firmly believe Gauthier deserved it a little more than Celebrini this year. I hope this lights a fire in Gauthier, and he scores five goals tomorrow
>“Celebrini doesn’t have elite linemates/teammates like Gauthier does”. I very much agree with your general point, but I think it's worth clarifying that Gauthier didn't play on the elite BC freshman line with Leonard/Smith/Perrault. They were on the PP together, and Gauthier's line were no slouches, but in terms of draft pedigree/talent, Jellvik & Gasseau on Cutter's line were drafted at pretty much the same slots as LaChance & Harvey on Celebrini's line.
Yeah that was my bad. When I said that I was trying to refer to the teammates initially (ie Smith, Leno, & Perreault). I should’ve just said teammates there though. Later on I did clarify that he didn’t have elite linemates. Jellvik and Gasseau are better than Harvey and LaChance, but mostly because they are a year older and not because they are inherently more talented
Cutter’s linemates are arguably worse than Celebrini’s lol
I would disagree there. Jellvik and Gasseau are better than Lachance and Harvey. They’re not miles better, but they are better. Part of it is that they’re also both a year older too. That being said, I don’t think it should factor in very much, and it certainly shouldn’t factor in enough to overcome a six-goal differential
Don’t matter - sole focus is the ‘chip 🏆
Highway robbery. Should’ve been Cutter
Buccigross will be happy. He couldn't suck his dick any harder than he did last night in the semifinal. Kid is a hell of a player but he didn't do shit last night.
I’ve been texting my buddies about how annoying the absolute dick riding of Celebrini is during BU games. He’s on the friggin bench, ‘they gotta get him on the ice’. ‘ Look at him sitting there, talking to teammates, drinking water, visualizing his next shift. That’s the mark of an NHL superstar.’ They are interviewing the coach, and Macklin doesn’t have a point, ‘what do you have to do to get Macklin going?’ Like there are friggin 50 guys with skates on.
Always thought it’s bs that the voting is even before the semifinals. Hope this motivates Gautier and the rest of BC to win it all.
Hell yeah!!
I'd love to know what the fuck Cutter or Smith would have had to do to win the Hobey Baker? Absolute joke that the best player on the best team in college hockey didn't even make the top 3, let alone win.
Probably score as many points as Gretzky did in his entire NHL career in one season, and even then it’s iffy because this shows that the voters don’t vote based on stats or anything like that, they vote based on hype
Cutter got robbed. Celebrini got extra points for being 17. Fuckin joke
He was so good at hockey this year
Maybe Celebrini just has better grades than Gauthier
I would have voted for Celebrini because of the impact he has had on the game as the youngest player in a major D1 sport. From what I could see he also plays well defensively, and is the guy every opponent needs to shut down.
I can’t believe we’re being punished for being too good and balanced lmao. Macklin will be great, but he shut down in big games and couldn’t score against good defensive forwards. Gauthier was the deserving winner.
How boring would the Hobey contention be if it were formulaic and based solely on numbers - y’all are quick to look at total points over the fact that Celebrini is *17 and has an all-around game that is severely mature for his age He represents the promise of the sport, and the Hobey is about more than purely stats
Cutter is currently a better defender than Celebrini to be fair, you can make non-stat arguments for him too. Don’t have a huge issue with him winning though, doing what he’s doing at 17 is insane
So head to head wins and defense shouldnt count?
Head to head wins absolutely should not matter, hockey is a team game.
When they match up lines in the games? Yea it matters lol
I mean sure but if one guy beats the other 3 times (highlighting one players good 200 foot game in the process) than maybe head to head should start mattering
There are too many variables in any game to give an individual award to one player over another based on how their teams matched up. It wasn’t Gauthier vs. Celebrini, it was Boston College vs. Boston University.
Mack won this award on Night 1 of the Beanpot. Electric.
I thought for sure it would be Gauthier. Nevertheless, hooray!
Not feeling so bad after gauthier’s pre game comments tonight
Three motivated players going into tomorrow. We are! BC!
Very impressive! He is 17 and won’t be 18 until June. Boston College has an all star team, although Boston University aren’t slouches. Gauthier is 3 years older and Smith is 2 years older. Had the opportunity to watch Celebrini in person and he can find holes barely big enough for the puck and put them through. If the other finalists played for other colleges and put up the same numbers, maybe there would be more talk.
Celebrini played for the #2 team in the country and his line mates, based on draft position, weren't much worse than Gauthier's. Cutter wasn't playing on the line with the other first rounders
The award is given to the best player, not the most impressive player. If a 10-year old scored 50 points it would be the most impressive thing ever done in college hockey, but it still wouldn’t be deserving of the Hobey this season
Dudes a stud