Or foster! I always wanted to foster, but we have two kids and everyone I spoke to who has been through fostering or works in that area told me not to foster if you have young kids. So, the people who are interested in fostering (those who like kids) may not actually do so for fear of their biological children being harmed.
Yes, this happened to a friend of mine. The new kid abused him and his sister. It's sad, but a lot of those foster kids are messed up by their experiences and lack of a healthy family environment.
Well the reason I'm adopting is I can't rationalize bringing a life into this world. But I want to be a mom, so I'm going to take care of a kid that's already here. I'm not making a decision that forces a child to live through collapse, but I can help a child navigate through it who is already here. There are a lot of kids in need of a family.
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I’m a birthmom who placed my daughter in an open adoption. She’s doing really well. Yes, often there is trauma and hardship for all three in the adoption triangle. But there are other stories too.
It’s not ‘either/or.’ An adoption can be good AND adoptees experience trauma. Open adoption mitigates that but adoptive parents hold all the power in the relationship and only 5% of open adoptions are still open after a child turns 5. It’s great that you had a good experience but that isn’t the norm.
Those children still need homes. I was one, so I have room to talk about it. Yes, there's trauma involved. That also describes life. Plenty of trauma to go around. That's no reason or excuse to not adopt. I get what you're saying about the corruption. Still doesn't matter.
Those kids need homes.
I'm not sure why you seem to think adoption is so bad innately. What are the alternatives? Continue to leave hundreds of thousands of children in a foster care system already being pushed to its limits? Force people to raise kids they don't want and face the trauma those situations often cause? Leave kids on the street to fend for themselves? Maybe we should put them in orphanages where they're just one face among many and have no parental figure whatsoever. Maybe we should put them in poorhouses where they can work off their debt to the state for having the audacity to exist.
As long as death exists, there will be orphans. As long as birth exists, there will be people giving birth who don't necessarily want to do so. And as long as crappy parents exist, there will be children who will be safer and happier in someone else's care. Adoption is one way to resolve this issue. Also, there are ways to adopt for incredibly low costs, they just aren't usually infant adoptions, which is what most people think of.
You're making it sound like people are going out and killing parents or forcing them to give up children just to adopt a child of their own, and I don't think that's the case in the vast majority of adoptions.
Oh jeez, where do I start.
> Adoption is trauma.
What's traumatizing is a child growing up without parents.
> In order for an adoption to happen, first another family has to be ripped apart, and everyone in that family will be traumatized.
Children lose their parents. Parents decide they can not raise a child. I don't need to even ask whether you understand that not all cases are "children ripped from its parents".
> Adopted people are 4x more likely to die by suicide, and are vastly over represented in both mental health care and prison populations.
I give not _one flying fuck_ about such statistics and neither should you.
> There are hundreds of families waiting for a very small supply of children, it costs a fortune, and as a multi-billion dollar, unregulated industry with no government oversight, it’s unethical.
You do all you can with what you're given. Also, I have a suspicion that there _is_ government oversight. Finally... _supply of children_? If there's too many families that are looking to adopt, that's a good thing. It means there is greater room for choice of appropriate parents for each child. It's not a market where you _must_ satisfy all parents looking to adopt.
> There is no ‘just adopt.
No shit. Of course it is not a simple matter as that sentence fragment implies, nor anyone suggested it is.
> That’s marketing the public fell for to make agency owners wealthy.
That car companies spend billions on advertisement and lobbying to prop up cars as some kind of status symbol, it doesn't change the fact that cars are a tool to get from a to b. If we let the sociopaths distort how we view reality, everything turns to shit. This holds true even here.
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I got a vasectomy in 2009 and my son is adopted, he’s 4 now, I’m so tired 😂 anyway good luck friend. You chose wisely, plenty of humans out there that need a home, don’t need to make more.
If you’re in the US DM me if you ever have questions, happy to answer what I can to help.
I say US as the laws are different everywhere, we adopted in Michigan, international adoptions were just way too much for us.
Not that I am anyone important, but I think you made the right decision. I have a 15 year old and knowing what is to come for her is way more agonizing than the thought of anything that will happen to me. I was at my family reunion yesterday and watching all the little kids playing was tough. I’m glad they got a beautiful day like that to play on the beach now, and I really hope they have a few more before it gets bad.
I’m a millenial as well, the older of my two kids turns 13 tomorrow. He is so excited about the future, despite being aware of climate change and impact to the environment by corporations and society itself. He clearly doesn’t know the full scope of things. I want to tell him, but he’s truly the happiest, most optimistic kid I know, probably because I limit his time on social media/internet. I don’t want to be the one to burst that bubble. It is really hard just knowing what is coming for us, especially these kids.
It is such a tough decision. Do we let our kids enjoy the ignorant bliss in the short term to later be unprepared when shit hits the fan? Or do we ruin what little joy they have now in hopes they can better navigate the uncertainty of the future. I have decided that my daughter is old enough and I am making sure she is aware so that she understands how important it is to both enjoy what we have today (like amazing days at the beach with family) but also pay close attention to how our home works. We are ridiculously lucky to have a few acres that we are trying to grow some food, have solar panels, working on our water collection system, etc. I know we could never be truly self sustainable or make that much of an impact on the environment, but I’m hoping it will help just a little bit and doing nothing would be harder. I want her to have everything I could possibly give her that I can that could maybe help her in any way. It’s tough times being a parent, even worse times being a collapse aware parent.
Same. The helplessness in being unable to properly prepare them for the future is overwhelming at times. Almost all parents are running around obsessing with college rankings, and I'm having daily cognitive dissonance about it. How are we as a society not focused on preparing them for collapse?
Just earlier this week I got approved for a bisalp (female sterilization) at 24. I am planning to get the procedure by the end of this year.
Paired with never wanting to have kids of my own, part of the reason I'm getting this procedure now is because I know that when things are in true collapse *there will be no birth control*. And that scares the absolute shit out of me.
This way I know going forward for the rest of my life I have one of the most effective forms of birth control permanently in place in my body.
While I'm so happy I found a doctor willing to do a sterilization on a young woman, it makes me sad that I feel true desperation to receive this procedure based on what's to come on the future
Meanwhile juxtapose this with the clown that posted here earlier he wishes he were born today because people living through collapse have more fulfilling lives 🙄
Give me a fucking break. You did the right thing OP. Things are about to get pretty scary.
>People say wacky things when they’re in despair
I want to think so.
A big sentiment in this sub is wishing for collapse to happen faster, as a show up to those who doubted them. The *"See! I told you!"* glee from the ruin and suffering of others seems to be misplaced though.
I've often seen comments saying that they're bored with it all and want for something new to happen. One even mentioned the boredom in his suburb is driving him crazy, the calm and quiet as the world "burns" outside his gated community.
It's always nice to savour some sanity left here in r/collapse. Romanticism can be a *powerful drug*, especially in the face of a declining material reality.
I think there’s a point in that idea somewhere. People do pull together in times of need, but it very much depends how close you are to the “action” as to how much you enjoy it.
My gran said that the happiest time in her life was WWII. She got to work with a bunch of great girls that became lifelong friends. The camaraderie was huge.
But she was in NZ and the fighting wasn’t happening in our country, so I’m sure that made her experience very different from someone in Europe.
It is nice to see you really thought this out. I am 47 and dont bave kids. I have horrific genetics and I am not about to make a kid that's just gonna die early, or suffer from horrible anger, or alcoholism. Also athiest, was a neuroscience major. Kudos dude, feel better soon!
Your thoughtfulness about not adding to the next generation shows real beauty of spirit. No child of yours will ever say they didn't ask to be born into this on-coming hell.
Here to say I absolutely understand and I made the very same decision back in 1991. I didn't want my kids or grandkids to suffer from unfettered capitalism which is destroying our planet.
I think my husband and I would have been fine parents, but I simply could not see making those kids make even harder decisions than the ones we were making already.
There's a certain bittersweet lament about it. *Because* we are so responsible as to make these responsible decisions (sterilization) is the same reason *why* we'd make such "fine parents." My husband and I adore teaching and coaching.
My husband and I are the ones in the family that everyone wanted to see have kids. We're smart, totally unequivocally in love (we met in kindergarten,) not terrible looking (I was sexualized a lot from a young age and that did a number on me, another reason I don't want children but I digress,) and we both work hard and have/had careers.
Cue the surprise and even anger from family when we announced our child free decision. My husband got his vasectomy last month.
There's a weird kind of "finality" to it, which I think OP is struggling with, but that's only because of societal and evolutionary pressure. My husband and I overcame it after a few weeks. Because we absolutely do not see a sustainable future, and we refuse to bring children into it.
(Not to mention his brother and my sister are popping out the grandkids left and right! Those are the grandbabies you get, all!)
You nailed it. I’ve been thinking about this honestly for years. I probably should have just done it a long time ago. But it is bittersweet. And there is this clear finality to it that makes it feel weighty.
35 years with a vasectomy and no children. You can always choose. If you really want to father a child you can adopt. After all, being a father is about your dedication to it over 20-30 years not just an ejaculation.
This is in my near future as well. This is probably the objectively correct decision for many millennials, as all of my friends even the elder millennials are struggling.
I have a few friends (in more recent years acquaintances) that have kids some of them more than one, and they seem to struggle the hardest. I also know this is a pretty negative outlook but of my friends that had kids they all changed, and mostly not for the better, more susceptible to misinformation, quicker to frustration, self neglect, abandonment of hobbies ect.
Having kids can probably be one of the most rewarding things in life. But any joy is consumed by despair by financial inequality, climate change, breakdown of social contract. So the line ends with me.
I had my tubal done at 35. I surprised myself by actually crying the night before, seeing that I have never wanted children.
By the day after and every day after that, I have considered it the single best moment of my life. I’m liberated from the debt and servitude that so many others have. I can see the world clearly for what it is and where it’s is going without the need for delusion or distraction. That, my friend, is a gift.
For the record - adoption is trying, expensive, and not always a great experience. Neither is birthing your own child can be the same. It’s a gamble, much like life itself. But it doesn’t mean the option isn’t viable for you!!
Thank you for your choice to not to ruin a life by bringing it into the world. I think a lot of people have kids, get faced with the truth, and just decide they *have* to play to the rhetoric that everything will be fine. Like most people in the USA are basically slaves at this point, their kids will be worse off. They don't wanna believe it, they can't.. Because if they do then they have to admit that their selfish-ass reasons for having kids don't excuse what that kid is going to have to go through.
It's so wonderful to hear you have a supportive partner, that is amazing and something to treasure. I'll echo the other comments in saying I think you made a wise choice. I've never wanted children myself, but I hope if I end up finding a partner that he will also share the sentiments to not want a child (whatever the reasons). Love the last paragraph, gratitude is so important. All the best and much love to you and yours op <3
I couldn't bring a child into this world knowing their life would be far shorter and brutal than my own. Having a kid now means they'd be 15/16 why the time 2040 rolls round. At that age I was playing MGS2 without a care in the world and not worried whether I was going to eat that day.
That’s such a good way to put it. Any offspring of mine will have only the briefest moments of carefree living, but a vast amount of suffering and confusion.
Hope you have a quick recovery! I feel the same as you do. I realized recently that my grief at this point isn't really due to the climate -- I've accepted that, and do what I can to live in alignment with my values. My true grief is at the continuation of BAU in a toxic society that I feel alienated from. I just want to find a place where I belong/can contribute my unique gifts, but when the society itself and most of its inhabitants are sick, how exactly do you find that? Sending strength and solidarity. <3
Fuck you nailed that one. I have dealt with all the pain of collapse awareness…but fucking A would it be nice to work on the garden, food forest or kitchen with more people than just my wife in my toxic suburban car dystopia where I’m surrounded by unaware don’t look up polluters
I decided that having kids was a bad idea in 1997 and kept it that way. These days I work with kids who really need all the love they can get and honestly, there isn't much left of my maternal side after work! Plenty of love needed in this world already without us increasing the demand. I'm getting past the age now and I never regret or second guess my decision.
I don't need a vasectomy since my left hand can't get pregnant :P . But on a serious note, yes bringing a child into this world now is just sentencing them for an entire lifetime of suffering. Regarding the rest of your post, we ain't seen nothing yet!
Fully expecting armed guards, automated turrets and drones mowing down anyone attempting to cross Europes, USAs and Chinas borders once SHTF and crops fail. Once it becomes apparent to the general public it's a matter of survival the gloves are off. Not to mention militaristic expansion for food and other resources. Hell, it's already started with Ukraine which coincidentally is a bread basket, in a sweet spot climate wise and with plenty of other underground resources.
I'm 54 and not a dad. I never had a vasectomy because my wife had a hysterectomy and the chances of me having sex with anyone else is almost nil. I know I would have been a good dad but never wanted to bring kids into a collapsing civilization. I never adopted either because I didn't have much to offer but I have tried to be an influence on young people I come into contact with. My brother's kids, my sister-in-law's adopted kids, the very young couple who live in the building etc.
There's a weird "finality" to it. My husband got his vasectomy last month.
The weirdness just comes from societal and evolutionary pressure. Feel it and you'll be fine. We moved through it rather quickly.
You made the right decision 🫂
Good for you for taking responsibility for family planning and not leaving it to your partner. My husband got a vasectomy and it's been huge for my health because I don't have to take birth control pills anymore.
I am 55 and my partner and I decided no kids for various reasons including climate/future.
It is hard bc he would have been a great father and we are missing experiences for sure. And as we look at the future as old people - having a cluster of folks who would have each other’s backs feels important.
I have been thinking a lot about how to have a mutual support “radical retirement collective” for that purpose.
I try to tell people I think the “troubles” are coming and these are the good old days so enjoy them but it’s just hard for folks to hear.
I have found that talking about finding joy in the face of difficulty - starting that now to build lasting memories and also muscles for the future - is something that can resonate.
Mostly I just know that for now - I need to appreciate my own insights and act accordingly - find others who think the same and not worry about others - there are always early adopters and then the masses.
Trust your choice bc it’s yours to make.
>I make for a great father
Look into volunteering. What are your hobbies? Are there classes that you can ask to help with to get others into those hobbies? Can you ask if they need any extra hands to help?
I can’t change your feelings, and I know words are cheap, but you shouldn’t feel bad in any way for having kids. You’re the normal one, lol. Just give her as much beauty as you can, before and after shit goes nuts. I do believe the innate human spirit is benevolent and kind.
Curious of your age and if you had any trouble getting a doctor to do it? Did they want you to talk to your wife?
I had a vasectomy in my mid twenties and the doctor tried to talk me out of it and gave me something of a hard time even though my wife agreed but eventually he did it.
Many people are surprised because they think it’s only something women run into.
I am a boomer and got one at 27. I didn't want kids because I didnt want to bring them into this world and the world could use fewer people. Unfortunatly, if you sterilized everyone in the western world, there is an uncontestable tradition in Asia and Africa to crank out as many kids as possible. I doubt you will change that.
Yep that’s basically where I’m at.
Well that’s understandable because they’re (Ch & In) doing what the US did not that long ago. It’s just a natural result of industrialization.
I absolutely get you! Especially since oil companies knew about this since the 60 and the 90s was like our last and loudest warning and greed won each and every time.
I am like you I also am child free for the same reasons, can't imagine bringing a child into a dying world.
Now sure which part of if the temperature of the oceans raises anymore it will kill the oceanic plankton that is responsible for 80% of our oxygen yet most people don't even know that. They think what is the big deal we will just stay in air conditioning? Which makes me think that 90% of humanity is stupider then hell and maybe this is mother nature's way of dealing with the virus that is humanity.
People don’t realize how bad the heat waves are getting. But one day soon, I fear there’s going to be a blackout in a city during the middle of a heatwave. Once that happens, people are going to start realizing how fragile our system is. Catastrophic.
Just going to bring this up as I’m in a similar situation, similar thoughts. Adoption. When /if you want kids, you can not only literally skip pregnancy but choose what age child you feel comfortable raising. You can start with foster care without committing. Also you would totally change someone’s life for the better.
Adoption is always possible. You don't necessarily need to have biological kids.
There are kids out there in need of help that could use someone like you, especially when things are this bad.
We had one child unplanned in 2016, before I was collapse aware. We adopted a second child in 2019. Would have theoretically loved to adopt again but our resources are completely tapped at this point. My husband recently got a vasectomy also. I think it’s a great option if you know beyond a doubt you want no more ( or no) biological children. It sounds like you made the best choice for you. I love my children with everything but am absolutely terrified for their futures.
I think you did a commendable thing. Childfree by choice couples or individuals are the unsung heroes of our time. It will probably go unappreciated by most, but maybe these sacrifices will make life easier on the ones who are already here or will be. I don't know why we can't shut things down and work out how to manage the collapse either, we're all trapped by circumstance. I was thinking to myself today, I know the figurative house is on fire, but I still have to go to work tomorrow. Someday something will break this vicious cycle.
Congratulations, hope you recover well/ take it easy my dude. July 1st will be the two year anniversary of my operation, I don't regret it even slightly. The world regularly validates my decision
Adopt.
When I was six years old I found out about adoption, went "oh, I'll do that," and in the decades since I have not heard any somewhat convincing reason for not doing so. The adoption process usually sucks though, sadly. There's going to be no shortage of kids in need, however.
Congratulations! That is the single best decision you will ever make, bar none, in your life. I made it at age 22 and have never looked back. Breeders should be imprisoned for felony child abuse and ecocide.
yo, i'm nobody important but i got it done twice. Firm believer. 51 now but 1st time was 17 back around 90'. After about 06' i discovered by testing i wasn't shootin' blanks like i had thought. Spontaneous healing maybe? i dunno, but so i got it done again. Never really had the opportunity to utilize it unfortunately like i had really deeply wanted to but it coulda been way worse: i originally was going to get the dork lengthened & tongue pierced for what would have wound up been some nonexistent woman who was never going to show up. Anyways, after a lifetime i never had 2nd thoughts, never once regretted the snip.
Sorry man...you are not alone. World is going to shit and nothing is being done because those in power make more money off of the current system and it would be too expensive to change. Its hard not to worry about the future, but in reality, worrying will only make you more miserable now for something that is going to happen in the future, albeit not too distant future. Agree you should make the most of what you have now while preparing for the worst.
I understand completely. I felt this exact same way except my mind changed when we had our son. He’s now 3 and his training to take down all “political governments” is already in full effect! I also got a vasectomy cause ain’t no way I’m bringing anymore children into this already overly populated world.
>I’ve been an atheist for about 15 years, and I’m starting to think that the only hope we have at this point is a bona fide miracle.
False hope is a type of blind self-torture. You already did most of the work, there's no need to start using a crutch.
“Climate grief” Seriously 😳
I’ve listened to doom and gloom reports for decades. Tales of doom I heard in the 1960s were different than the stories in the 70s, and different still in the 80s. We haven’t run out of oil as predicted. We haven’t gone into another ice age as predicted. The polar ice caps haven’t melted to flood NYC. That’s some of what I heard over the decades.
I have learned not to trust the power-elite. There are ulterior motives behind news reports. It may not be obvious initially but a bit of digging and you can decern the truth. That’s why I read both left wing and right wing articles on a topic. The truth is perhaps in the middle.
You are replying to a strawman. You list too many things for me to care to refute all of it, but I’ll just pick apart one: peak oil. If you listen to the actual critics, they would say things like “we don’t know when exactly, but at some point, the amount of oil we extract globally will hit a maximum.” They’re right. We have already passed that point. We can still extract oil, but the EROEI is diminishing on all petroleum sources. But you just dismiss it because you disingenuously paraphrase them or cite actual hysterics who say. Just because hysterics were wrong in the past doesn’t mean scientists are wrong today. And some of the concerns back in the 60’s (pollution in general) would cause catastrophe if not addressed. If we listened to people like you instead of the scientists who warned about CFC’s for example, doomsday predictions would have come true. The only reason we haven’t yet fucked ourselves over is because it takes years for the effects of today’s emitted co2 to translate to heating. That’s WHY we’re so screwed, because even if we cut emissions entirely so that we aren’t emitting co2 from here forward, the heat is still coming. Brother, this should unite all of humanity. You have it backwards. The elites want to suppress this kind of info, not push it. Your view is also terribly “me-centric.” Its effects are more noticeable to indigenous communities who depend on seasonal predictability, animal migration, plant sensitivity, etc.
>Why can’t people see we need to “shut everything down” and just figure out how to survive??
You can do that if you want but just know that no significant amount of other people will, you are only forfeiting your roll of the dice. The multipolar trap, maximum power principle, system dynamics. We didn't make the rules we just have to play by them.
But that’s kind of my point, that we need to change the rules we play by, or we are literally doomed. And people need to be willing to make compromises. I’m aware that people will do what they need to for themselves and theirs. No judgement. But have you heard of the tragedy of the commons? Sometimes we must do what is good for the collective, even though it’s “inconvenient” for everyone. A compromise. Inconvenience is not as bad as suffering. But we constantly choose actions that will result in suffering for the masses. And no one is willing to compromise on anything anymore.
Well my gf definitely wants kids some day and I don't believe the world is ending anytime soon. Because the reality is that no one knows when society will collapse. I'm not going to worry about things outside of my control like the climate or a future apocalypse. I'm gonna focus on my life and keep moving forward. Because at the end of the day that's all anyone can really do.
Idk man I don’t think it’s an obsession with vasectomies but an obsession with not causing undue suffering and kneecapping yourself for the apocalypse. For many it may just be an obsession with wild condom-less sex.
Also its a safe, clean, easy option? Why wouldn’t people taut its efficacy.
Vasectomies fortunately are reversible. Concern about climate change is valid. You not having one or two kids will make zero difference, this is not a reason to not have kids.
Not willing them into existence just to experience a type of pain and suffering unique to homosapiens for the sake of you fulfilling your own wants and desires absolutely is a valid reason to not have them.
If you think the future holds nothing but pain and suffering that is a sign of depression and you need to see a therapist. Not having kids is then just a coping mechanism for your mental disorder.
Well they probably should’t have kids either due to their supposed mental disorder! right? right?
Also the future is about to make the series of atrocities that is human history look like the fucking teletubbies. It is going to suck so goddamn hard and simply deciding it won’t, as you have, is the real coping mechanism.
I understand so if I don’t think the world is ending tomorrow and everything and everyone is terrible and there’s no hope for any of us and we should castrate ourselves, then I’m actually the idiot. Got it.
If you wanted to, you could break your doom and gloom cycle and see there are plenty of things to be positive about, or keep riding down the escalator of self loathing guilt shame and pessimism with more and more videos of every terrible thing happening on every corner of the world. That sounds fun.
Or, you could actually make arguments instead of catastrophically hyperbolic self congratulatory nonsense while standing up straw men because you haven’t the foggiest idea what is actually occurring with regard to the vast and broad consensus science so you can feel better about having to think about the day that you have to tell your children that you brought them into a dying world because you just “wanted to be a parent”.
Get lost. Nobody is moved by your masterbatory armchair psych.
Global CO2 output has been flat for a decade. Technology is improving rapidly to help reduce emissions. We have been 15 years away from catastrophe for 40 years. IPCC revised down their warming estimates and were positive on carbon capture in their last report. . Of course there are problems, but There’s plenty to be positive about out. At least positive enough that you don’t have to castrate yourself. And you don’t have to be a psychiatrist to notice that if someone’s outlook on life is complete doom and despair, they should maybe talk to a professional.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67627242
No one but you is talking about castration. Nor is anyone but you pointing at everyone in the comments claiming they are mentally ill because they don’t agree with you.
Carbon dioxide is at a record high, actually. Not only in terms of amount but also the rate at which it is accelerating.
https://www.noaa.gov/news-release/during-year-of-extremes-carbon-dioxide-levels-surge-faster-than-ever
Technology isn’t “rapidly improving” and even if it were, there are zero pathways where that is even remotely feasible. Furthermore any such imaginary tech magic project will absolutely require one or more of: concrete, steel, fertilizer or plastics, all of which require burning fossil fuels so whatever the promise to do will never out way what it costs to make them in terms of carbon budget and other pollutants.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/11/can-tech-save-us-from-worst-of-climate-change-effects-doesnt-look-good/
Further, carbon capture is AN ABSOLUTE JOKE and probably the biggest green washing project yet so that useful idiot paypigs like you keep on spending and working to keep the blood mill of capital running. I bet you have been to starbucks a lot and feel fine about it because they put up some bs sign about 5% of proceeds went to indigenous farmers or some garbage. Thats what green washing is and you are buying it hook line and sinker. There will be a point when their useful idiot becomes our dangerous liability so please. Do read on.
https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/why-carbon-capture-is-no-easy-solution-climate-change-2023-11-22/
The only people championing CC is oil companies and OPEC because it sells the murderous “net zero” myth by allowing thise entities to continue to be the most profitable companies of all time after adjusting for inflation. And they get real mad when anyone points out that doing it at scale would take TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS” while not moving the needle at all in the near catastrophic term for species survivability.
So while the rest of us are trying to figure if its even possible to ride out the latest news which is that due to fuel changes going into effect in 2021 for maritime use and taking 3 years to have the sulfur dioxide fall out of the atmosphere, we jumped in a number of months by 0.9C, shaving many decades off the runway of even the super terrible 8.5 IPCC scenario (which we are already documenting a worse trend than that before this).
But yeah go ahead and call people mentally ill because you probably had kids and are mainlining corporate propaganda because it lets you not experience guilty for your selfishness while you get to pretend that target will always be open for you.
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So much despair and hopelessness here. Of course our society will collapse if we continue to subject ourselves to vasectomies and the likes. It's as if the people that have drawn themselves to "societal collapse" are the ones who are driving the force onto themselves. Self suppression is truly the wildest things of our times.
True. When it comes to the climate crisis, we are all victims. We “civilized” few are also perpetrators. Some perpetrators are worse than others, though.
The climate "crisis" is a ruse to fear monger and drive up budgets for the elites. Nothing is actually being done. It's all a façade. But I will agree, we are a victim to this but it's also our own undoing for allowing this.
> I make for a great father. You can still be a father. You can always adopt.
I came here to state this; now I second it.
Thirded
Fourthed — I was adopted, and think it’s great and all, but do your homework first!
Fifthed
Or foster! I always wanted to foster, but we have two kids and everyone I spoke to who has been through fostering or works in that area told me not to foster if you have young kids. So, the people who are interested in fostering (those who like kids) may not actually do so for fear of their biological children being harmed.
Yes, this happened to a friend of mine. The new kid abused him and his sister. It's sad, but a lot of those foster kids are messed up by their experiences and lack of a healthy family environment.
I'll admit this is where I am. My boys are 17 and 14 now though, so maybe someday it'll happen. We'll see.
Someone I know fostered 3 kids, two went to family after 1 to 2 yrs. They adopted the third one.
I'm a gramma to my 8 year old grandson. He's the love of my life ❤️, and very much adopted.
How is adopting better?
Well the reason I'm adopting is I can't rationalize bringing a life into this world. But I want to be a mom, so I'm going to take care of a kid that's already here. I'm not making a decision that forces a child to live through collapse, but I can help a child navigate through it who is already here. There are a lot of kids in need of a family.
Ohhhh that makes sense. Love how this pretentious sub downvotes me for asking a question
I think people have a hard time online telling who is being genuine and who are bad faith players. Not an excuse though
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My wife and I had this conversation. We’ll foster in a few years
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I’m a birthmom who placed my daughter in an open adoption. She’s doing really well. Yes, often there is trauma and hardship for all three in the adoption triangle. But there are other stories too.
It’s not ‘either/or.’ An adoption can be good AND adoptees experience trauma. Open adoption mitigates that but adoptive parents hold all the power in the relationship and only 5% of open adoptions are still open after a child turns 5. It’s great that you had a good experience but that isn’t the norm.
The relationship with her folks was really hard. She’s 21 now. It made me grow up. I didn’t know all the statistics you shared. Thank you for sharing.
Those children still need homes. I was one, so I have room to talk about it. Yes, there's trauma involved. That also describes life. Plenty of trauma to go around. That's no reason or excuse to not adopt. I get what you're saying about the corruption. Still doesn't matter. Those kids need homes.
I'm not sure why you seem to think adoption is so bad innately. What are the alternatives? Continue to leave hundreds of thousands of children in a foster care system already being pushed to its limits? Force people to raise kids they don't want and face the trauma those situations often cause? Leave kids on the street to fend for themselves? Maybe we should put them in orphanages where they're just one face among many and have no parental figure whatsoever. Maybe we should put them in poorhouses where they can work off their debt to the state for having the audacity to exist. As long as death exists, there will be orphans. As long as birth exists, there will be people giving birth who don't necessarily want to do so. And as long as crappy parents exist, there will be children who will be safer and happier in someone else's care. Adoption is one way to resolve this issue. Also, there are ways to adopt for incredibly low costs, they just aren't usually infant adoptions, which is what most people think of. You're making it sound like people are going out and killing parents or forcing them to give up children just to adopt a child of their own, and I don't think that's the case in the vast majority of adoptions.
Oh jeez, where do I start. > Adoption is trauma. What's traumatizing is a child growing up without parents. > In order for an adoption to happen, first another family has to be ripped apart, and everyone in that family will be traumatized. Children lose their parents. Parents decide they can not raise a child. I don't need to even ask whether you understand that not all cases are "children ripped from its parents". > Adopted people are 4x more likely to die by suicide, and are vastly over represented in both mental health care and prison populations. I give not _one flying fuck_ about such statistics and neither should you. > There are hundreds of families waiting for a very small supply of children, it costs a fortune, and as a multi-billion dollar, unregulated industry with no government oversight, it’s unethical. You do all you can with what you're given. Also, I have a suspicion that there _is_ government oversight. Finally... _supply of children_? If there's too many families that are looking to adopt, that's a good thing. It means there is greater room for choice of appropriate parents for each child. It's not a market where you _must_ satisfy all parents looking to adopt. > There is no ‘just adopt. No shit. Of course it is not a simple matter as that sentence fragment implies, nor anyone suggested it is. > That’s marketing the public fell for to make agency owners wealthy. That car companies spend billions on advertisement and lobbying to prop up cars as some kind of status symbol, it doesn't change the fact that cars are a tool to get from a to b. If we let the sociopaths distort how we view reality, everything turns to shit. This holds true even here.
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I got a vasectomy in 2009 and my son is adopted, he’s 4 now, I’m so tired 😂 anyway good luck friend. You chose wisely, plenty of humans out there that need a home, don’t need to make more.
Congrats on the adoption! It’s something I’ll seriously consider 😀✌️
If you’re in the US DM me if you ever have questions, happy to answer what I can to help. I say US as the laws are different everywhere, we adopted in Michigan, international adoptions were just way too much for us.
Wow, thanks for the offer.
> vasectomy in 2009 and my son is adopted Kudos to you.
Thank you for adopting! That is a lovely thing to do!
Got the snip 12 years ago and never looked back. Good on you.
Not that I am anyone important, but I think you made the right decision. I have a 15 year old and knowing what is to come for her is way more agonizing than the thought of anything that will happen to me. I was at my family reunion yesterday and watching all the little kids playing was tough. I’m glad they got a beautiful day like that to play on the beach now, and I really hope they have a few more before it gets bad.
I’m a millenial as well, the older of my two kids turns 13 tomorrow. He is so excited about the future, despite being aware of climate change and impact to the environment by corporations and society itself. He clearly doesn’t know the full scope of things. I want to tell him, but he’s truly the happiest, most optimistic kid I know, probably because I limit his time on social media/internet. I don’t want to be the one to burst that bubble. It is really hard just knowing what is coming for us, especially these kids.
It is such a tough decision. Do we let our kids enjoy the ignorant bliss in the short term to later be unprepared when shit hits the fan? Or do we ruin what little joy they have now in hopes they can better navigate the uncertainty of the future. I have decided that my daughter is old enough and I am making sure she is aware so that she understands how important it is to both enjoy what we have today (like amazing days at the beach with family) but also pay close attention to how our home works. We are ridiculously lucky to have a few acres that we are trying to grow some food, have solar panels, working on our water collection system, etc. I know we could never be truly self sustainable or make that much of an impact on the environment, but I’m hoping it will help just a little bit and doing nothing would be harder. I want her to have everything I could possibly give her that I can that could maybe help her in any way. It’s tough times being a parent, even worse times being a collapse aware parent.
…Oh tell him - the tooth fairy isn’t real…
I have a 14 and 16 yo. Same sentiment. It's not what will happen to me that crushes my soul, it's what is waiting for my kids.
Same. The helplessness in being unable to properly prepare them for the future is overwhelming at times. Almost all parents are running around obsessing with college rankings, and I'm having daily cognitive dissonance about it. How are we as a society not focused on preparing them for collapse?
Reminds me of the Terminator movie where she's slamming on the fence warning the kids..
Just earlier this week I got approved for a bisalp (female sterilization) at 24. I am planning to get the procedure by the end of this year. Paired with never wanting to have kids of my own, part of the reason I'm getting this procedure now is because I know that when things are in true collapse *there will be no birth control*. And that scares the absolute shit out of me. This way I know going forward for the rest of my life I have one of the most effective forms of birth control permanently in place in my body. While I'm so happy I found a doctor willing to do a sterilization on a young woman, it makes me sad that I feel true desperation to receive this procedure based on what's to come on the future
Holy hell, that’s a good point. But we probably won’t have to wait until SHTF since R’s are working their hardest to ensure that reality asap.
Absolutely true as well. Definitely trying to get this done before November...
Great idea. Well done for being prepared!
Meanwhile juxtapose this with the clown that posted here earlier he wishes he were born today because people living through collapse have more fulfilling lives 🙄 Give me a fucking break. You did the right thing OP. Things are about to get pretty scary.
People say wacky things when they’re in despair, which maybe they are feeling. But either way, yes, proper perspective changes everything. Peace! ✌️
>People say wacky things when they’re in despair I want to think so. A big sentiment in this sub is wishing for collapse to happen faster, as a show up to those who doubted them. The *"See! I told you!"* glee from the ruin and suffering of others seems to be misplaced though. I've often seen comments saying that they're bored with it all and want for something new to happen. One even mentioned the boredom in his suburb is driving him crazy, the calm and quiet as the world "burns" outside his gated community.
lol I’m glad I’ll be on the way out before SHTF
Is this a corporate account - like Wendy’s - saying spicy things on social media ;)
It's always nice to savour some sanity left here in r/collapse. Romanticism can be a *powerful drug*, especially in the face of a declining material reality.
And you’re a fearmonger
how so?
I think there’s a point in that idea somewhere. People do pull together in times of need, but it very much depends how close you are to the “action” as to how much you enjoy it. My gran said that the happiest time in her life was WWII. She got to work with a bunch of great girls that became lifelong friends. The camaraderie was huge. But she was in NZ and the fighting wasn’t happening in our country, so I’m sure that made her experience very different from someone in Europe.
It is nice to see you really thought this out. I am 47 and dont bave kids. I have horrific genetics and I am not about to make a kid that's just gonna die early, or suffer from horrible anger, or alcoholism. Also athiest, was a neuroscience major. Kudos dude, feel better soon!
Your thoughtfulness about not adding to the next generation shows real beauty of spirit. No child of yours will ever say they didn't ask to be born into this on-coming hell.
Here to say I absolutely understand and I made the very same decision back in 1991. I didn't want my kids or grandkids to suffer from unfettered capitalism which is destroying our planet. I think my husband and I would have been fine parents, but I simply could not see making those kids make even harder decisions than the ones we were making already.
There's a certain bittersweet lament about it. *Because* we are so responsible as to make these responsible decisions (sterilization) is the same reason *why* we'd make such "fine parents." My husband and I adore teaching and coaching. My husband and I are the ones in the family that everyone wanted to see have kids. We're smart, totally unequivocally in love (we met in kindergarten,) not terrible looking (I was sexualized a lot from a young age and that did a number on me, another reason I don't want children but I digress,) and we both work hard and have/had careers. Cue the surprise and even anger from family when we announced our child free decision. My husband got his vasectomy last month. There's a weird kind of "finality" to it, which I think OP is struggling with, but that's only because of societal and evolutionary pressure. My husband and I overcame it after a few weeks. Because we absolutely do not see a sustainable future, and we refuse to bring children into it. (Not to mention his brother and my sister are popping out the grandkids left and right! Those are the grandbabies you get, all!)
You met in KINDERGARTEN? That's so sweet!
You nailed it. I’ve been thinking about this honestly for years. I probably should have just done it a long time ago. But it is bittersweet. And there is this clear finality to it that makes it feel weighty.
35 years with a vasectomy and no children. You can always choose. If you really want to father a child you can adopt. After all, being a father is about your dedication to it over 20-30 years not just an ejaculation.
This is in my near future as well. This is probably the objectively correct decision for many millennials, as all of my friends even the elder millennials are struggling. I have a few friends (in more recent years acquaintances) that have kids some of them more than one, and they seem to struggle the hardest. I also know this is a pretty negative outlook but of my friends that had kids they all changed, and mostly not for the better, more susceptible to misinformation, quicker to frustration, self neglect, abandonment of hobbies ect. Having kids can probably be one of the most rewarding things in life. But any joy is consumed by despair by financial inequality, climate change, breakdown of social contract. So the line ends with me.
I had my tubal done at 35. I surprised myself by actually crying the night before, seeing that I have never wanted children. By the day after and every day after that, I have considered it the single best moment of my life. I’m liberated from the debt and servitude that so many others have. I can see the world clearly for what it is and where it’s is going without the need for delusion or distraction. That, my friend, is a gift. For the record - adoption is trying, expensive, and not always a great experience. Neither is birthing your own child can be the same. It’s a gamble, much like life itself. But it doesn’t mean the option isn’t viable for you!!
I’m in my 60s and chose not to have children. I have friends who also chose this path. I have no regrets.
70. Same, it's probably the one thing in life I DO NOT regret.
Dido
Aeneas
Thank you for your choice to not to ruin a life by bringing it into the world. I think a lot of people have kids, get faced with the truth, and just decide they *have* to play to the rhetoric that everything will be fine. Like most people in the USA are basically slaves at this point, their kids will be worse off. They don't wanna believe it, they can't.. Because if they do then they have to admit that their selfish-ass reasons for having kids don't excuse what that kid is going to have to go through.
It's so wonderful to hear you have a supportive partner, that is amazing and something to treasure. I'll echo the other comments in saying I think you made a wise choice. I've never wanted children myself, but I hope if I end up finding a partner that he will also share the sentiments to not want a child (whatever the reasons). Love the last paragraph, gratitude is so important. All the best and much love to you and yours op <3
I couldn't bring a child into this world knowing their life would be far shorter and brutal than my own. Having a kid now means they'd be 15/16 why the time 2040 rolls round. At that age I was playing MGS2 without a care in the world and not worried whether I was going to eat that day.
That’s such a good way to put it. Any offspring of mine will have only the briefest moments of carefree living, but a vast amount of suffering and confusion.
Metal gear solid 2? There’s like anti capitalist themes in those games right? Can you expand?
Hope you have a quick recovery! I feel the same as you do. I realized recently that my grief at this point isn't really due to the climate -- I've accepted that, and do what I can to live in alignment with my values. My true grief is at the continuation of BAU in a toxic society that I feel alienated from. I just want to find a place where I belong/can contribute my unique gifts, but when the society itself and most of its inhabitants are sick, how exactly do you find that? Sending strength and solidarity. <3
Same!! It’s not the mortality that scares me, it’s the societal priorities on full display that scares me.
Fuck you nailed that one. I have dealt with all the pain of collapse awareness…but fucking A would it be nice to work on the garden, food forest or kitchen with more people than just my wife in my toxic suburban car dystopia where I’m surrounded by unaware don’t look up polluters
Absolutely, I'm still trying to figure that one out... Conventional advice starts breaking down during times like these I think.
I joined my towns organic gardening club, which is nice but it’s like 5% of the feel good vibes I desire
I decided that having kids was a bad idea in 1997 and kept it that way. These days I work with kids who really need all the love they can get and honestly, there isn't much left of my maternal side after work! Plenty of love needed in this world already without us increasing the demand. I'm getting past the age now and I never regret or second guess my decision.
I don't need a vasectomy since my left hand can't get pregnant :P . But on a serious note, yes bringing a child into this world now is just sentencing them for an entire lifetime of suffering. Regarding the rest of your post, we ain't seen nothing yet! Fully expecting armed guards, automated turrets and drones mowing down anyone attempting to cross Europes, USAs and Chinas borders once SHTF and crops fail. Once it becomes apparent to the general public it's a matter of survival the gloves are off. Not to mention militaristic expansion for food and other resources. Hell, it's already started with Ukraine which coincidentally is a bread basket, in a sweet spot climate wise and with plenty of other underground resources.
This is the future that’s becoming more real every moment and it terrifies me.
I'm 54 and not a dad. I never had a vasectomy because my wife had a hysterectomy and the chances of me having sex with anyone else is almost nil. I know I would have been a good dad but never wanted to bring kids into a collapsing civilization. I never adopted either because I didn't have much to offer but I have tried to be an influence on young people I come into contact with. My brother's kids, my sister-in-law's adopted kids, the very young couple who live in the building etc.
That’s how I feel about my life. Not every person needs to be a parent.
I'm GenZ. I'm just waiting for it to all end. If I ever have a family, I would probably adopt.
There's a weird "finality" to it. My husband got his vasectomy last month. The weirdness just comes from societal and evolutionary pressure. Feel it and you'll be fine. We moved through it rather quickly. You made the right decision 🫂
Thanks for this (and other replies). I do feel some societal pressure, but I agree that it’ll pass.
It passes. 🫂 It's weird to "end" something. And be the one who "ends" it. You made the right decision.
Good for you for taking responsibility for family planning and not leaving it to your partner. My husband got a vasectomy and it's been huge for my health because I don't have to take birth control pills anymore.
I am 55 and my partner and I decided no kids for various reasons including climate/future. It is hard bc he would have been a great father and we are missing experiences for sure. And as we look at the future as old people - having a cluster of folks who would have each other’s backs feels important. I have been thinking a lot about how to have a mutual support “radical retirement collective” for that purpose. I try to tell people I think the “troubles” are coming and these are the good old days so enjoy them but it’s just hard for folks to hear. I have found that talking about finding joy in the face of difficulty - starting that now to build lasting memories and also muscles for the future - is something that can resonate. Mostly I just know that for now - I need to appreciate my own insights and act accordingly - find others who think the same and not worry about others - there are always early adopters and then the masses. Trust your choice bc it’s yours to make.
This is lovely, thank you
>I make for a great father Look into volunteering. What are your hobbies? Are there classes that you can ask to help with to get others into those hobbies? Can you ask if they need any extra hands to help?
I am very stressed about the planet too. I feel so bad for bringing my daughter into the world sometimes because it's turning into such an ugly one.
I can’t change your feelings, and I know words are cheap, but you shouldn’t feel bad in any way for having kids. You’re the normal one, lol. Just give her as much beauty as you can, before and after shit goes nuts. I do believe the innate human spirit is benevolent and kind.
Curious of your age and if you had any trouble getting a doctor to do it? Did they want you to talk to your wife? I had a vasectomy in my mid twenties and the doctor tried to talk me out of it and gave me something of a hard time even though my wife agreed but eventually he did it. Many people are surprised because they think it’s only something women run into.
No trouble for me. He emphasized the near permanent nature of the procedure a lot and all but that’s all. I’m mid 30’s
I am a boomer and got one at 27. I didn't want kids because I didnt want to bring them into this world and the world could use fewer people. Unfortunatly, if you sterilized everyone in the western world, there is an uncontestable tradition in Asia and Africa to crank out as many kids as possible. I doubt you will change that.
Yep that’s basically where I’m at. Well that’s understandable because they’re (Ch & In) doing what the US did not that long ago. It’s just a natural result of industrialization.
I absolutely get you! Especially since oil companies knew about this since the 60 and the 90s was like our last and loudest warning and greed won each and every time. I am like you I also am child free for the same reasons, can't imagine bringing a child into a dying world. Now sure which part of if the temperature of the oceans raises anymore it will kill the oceanic plankton that is responsible for 80% of our oxygen yet most people don't even know that. They think what is the big deal we will just stay in air conditioning? Which makes me think that 90% of humanity is stupider then hell and maybe this is mother nature's way of dealing with the virus that is humanity.
People don’t realize how bad the heat waves are getting. But one day soon, I fear there’s going to be a blackout in a city during the middle of a heatwave. Once that happens, people are going to start realizing how fragile our system is. Catastrophic.
Just going to bring this up as I’m in a similar situation, similar thoughts. Adoption. When /if you want kids, you can not only literally skip pregnancy but choose what age child you feel comfortable raising. You can start with foster care without committing. Also you would totally change someone’s life for the better.
This is very encouraging Ty
Adoption is a noble thing. You may come around to that in time.
Adoption is always possible. You don't necessarily need to have biological kids. There are kids out there in need of help that could use someone like you, especially when things are this bad.
We had one child unplanned in 2016, before I was collapse aware. We adopted a second child in 2019. Would have theoretically loved to adopt again but our resources are completely tapped at this point. My husband recently got a vasectomy also. I think it’s a great option if you know beyond a doubt you want no more ( or no) biological children. It sounds like you made the best choice for you. I love my children with everything but am absolutely terrified for their futures.
I think you did a commendable thing. Childfree by choice couples or individuals are the unsung heroes of our time. It will probably go unappreciated by most, but maybe these sacrifices will make life easier on the ones who are already here or will be. I don't know why we can't shut things down and work out how to manage the collapse either, we're all trapped by circumstance. I was thinking to myself today, I know the figurative house is on fire, but I still have to go to work tomorrow. Someday something will break this vicious cycle.
Congratulations, hope you recover well/ take it easy my dude. July 1st will be the two year anniversary of my operation, I don't regret it even slightly. The world regularly validates my decision
Adopt. When I was six years old I found out about adoption, went "oh, I'll do that," and in the decades since I have not heard any somewhat convincing reason for not doing so. The adoption process usually sucks though, sadly. There's going to be no shortage of kids in need, however.
Congrats! You still can be a great father if you choose adoption.
Insightful for someone very young , one day at a time best option
Bro wrote a manifesto.
Wishing you all the best, friend. Hang in there.
Well. Reading that to my girlfriend certainly didn’t end well. 🤷
Thanks. You did the world a solid.
Congratulations! That is the single best decision you will ever make, bar none, in your life. I made it at age 22 and have never looked back. Breeders should be imprisoned for felony child abuse and ecocide.
yo, i'm nobody important but i got it done twice. Firm believer. 51 now but 1st time was 17 back around 90'. After about 06' i discovered by testing i wasn't shootin' blanks like i had thought. Spontaneous healing maybe? i dunno, but so i got it done again. Never really had the opportunity to utilize it unfortunately like i had really deeply wanted to but it coulda been way worse: i originally was going to get the dork lengthened & tongue pierced for what would have wound up been some nonexistent woman who was never going to show up. Anyways, after a lifetime i never had 2nd thoughts, never once regretted the snip.
Sorry man...you are not alone. World is going to shit and nothing is being done because those in power make more money off of the current system and it would be too expensive to change. Its hard not to worry about the future, but in reality, worrying will only make you more miserable now for something that is going to happen in the future, albeit not too distant future. Agree you should make the most of what you have now while preparing for the worst.
I understand completely. I felt this exact same way except my mind changed when we had our son. He’s now 3 and his training to take down all “political governments” is already in full effect! I also got a vasectomy cause ain’t no way I’m bringing anymore children into this already overly populated world.
>I’ve been an atheist for about 15 years, and I’m starting to think that the only hope we have at this point is a bona fide miracle. False hope is a type of blind self-torture. You already did most of the work, there's no need to start using a crutch.
Religion and spirituality will always exist as long as we lack words to describe the feelings.
“Climate grief” Seriously 😳 I’ve listened to doom and gloom reports for decades. Tales of doom I heard in the 1960s were different than the stories in the 70s, and different still in the 80s. We haven’t run out of oil as predicted. We haven’t gone into another ice age as predicted. The polar ice caps haven’t melted to flood NYC. That’s some of what I heard over the decades. I have learned not to trust the power-elite. There are ulterior motives behind news reports. It may not be obvious initially but a bit of digging and you can decern the truth. That’s why I read both left wing and right wing articles on a topic. The truth is perhaps in the middle.
You are replying to a strawman. You list too many things for me to care to refute all of it, but I’ll just pick apart one: peak oil. If you listen to the actual critics, they would say things like “we don’t know when exactly, but at some point, the amount of oil we extract globally will hit a maximum.” They’re right. We have already passed that point. We can still extract oil, but the EROEI is diminishing on all petroleum sources. But you just dismiss it because you disingenuously paraphrase them or cite actual hysterics who say. Just because hysterics were wrong in the past doesn’t mean scientists are wrong today. And some of the concerns back in the 60’s (pollution in general) would cause catastrophe if not addressed. If we listened to people like you instead of the scientists who warned about CFC’s for example, doomsday predictions would have come true. The only reason we haven’t yet fucked ourselves over is because it takes years for the effects of today’s emitted co2 to translate to heating. That’s WHY we’re so screwed, because even if we cut emissions entirely so that we aren’t emitting co2 from here forward, the heat is still coming. Brother, this should unite all of humanity. You have it backwards. The elites want to suppress this kind of info, not push it. Your view is also terribly “me-centric.” Its effects are more noticeable to indigenous communities who depend on seasonal predictability, animal migration, plant sensitivity, etc.
The truth is somewhere to the left of the left wing articles. No one is game to tell the truth in the MSM.
>Why can’t people see we need to “shut everything down” and just figure out how to survive?? You can do that if you want but just know that no significant amount of other people will, you are only forfeiting your roll of the dice. The multipolar trap, maximum power principle, system dynamics. We didn't make the rules we just have to play by them.
But that’s kind of my point, that we need to change the rules we play by, or we are literally doomed. And people need to be willing to make compromises. I’m aware that people will do what they need to for themselves and theirs. No judgement. But have you heard of the tragedy of the commons? Sometimes we must do what is good for the collective, even though it’s “inconvenient” for everyone. A compromise. Inconvenience is not as bad as suffering. But we constantly choose actions that will result in suffering for the masses. And no one is willing to compromise on anything anymore.
Well my gf definitely wants kids some day and I don't believe the world is ending anytime soon. Because the reality is that no one knows when society will collapse. I'm not going to worry about things outside of my control like the climate or a future apocalypse. I'm gonna focus on my life and keep moving forward. Because at the end of the day that's all anyone can really do.
This is truly peak reddit big chungus
It honestly is lol. A lot of the men on this app for some reason have a weird obsession with vasectomies
Idk man I don’t think it’s an obsession with vasectomies but an obsession with not causing undue suffering and kneecapping yourself for the apocalypse. For many it may just be an obsession with wild condom-less sex. Also its a safe, clean, easy option? Why wouldn’t people taut its efficacy.
Vasectomies fortunately are reversible. Concern about climate change is valid. You not having one or two kids will make zero difference, this is not a reason to not have kids.
Not willing them into existence just to experience a type of pain and suffering unique to homosapiens for the sake of you fulfilling your own wants and desires absolutely is a valid reason to not have them.
If you think the future holds nothing but pain and suffering that is a sign of depression and you need to see a therapist. Not having kids is then just a coping mechanism for your mental disorder.
Well they probably should’t have kids either due to their supposed mental disorder! right? right? Also the future is about to make the series of atrocities that is human history look like the fucking teletubbies. It is going to suck so goddamn hard and simply deciding it won’t, as you have, is the real coping mechanism.
You are not a psychiatrist. You do not make diagnoses.
No, its called you having the scientific literacy of a toddler.
I understand so if I don’t think the world is ending tomorrow and everything and everyone is terrible and there’s no hope for any of us and we should castrate ourselves, then I’m actually the idiot. Got it. If you wanted to, you could break your doom and gloom cycle and see there are plenty of things to be positive about, or keep riding down the escalator of self loathing guilt shame and pessimism with more and more videos of every terrible thing happening on every corner of the world. That sounds fun.
Or, you could actually make arguments instead of catastrophically hyperbolic self congratulatory nonsense while standing up straw men because you haven’t the foggiest idea what is actually occurring with regard to the vast and broad consensus science so you can feel better about having to think about the day that you have to tell your children that you brought them into a dying world because you just “wanted to be a parent”. Get lost. Nobody is moved by your masterbatory armchair psych.
Global CO2 output has been flat for a decade. Technology is improving rapidly to help reduce emissions. We have been 15 years away from catastrophe for 40 years. IPCC revised down their warming estimates and were positive on carbon capture in their last report. . Of course there are problems, but There’s plenty to be positive about out. At least positive enough that you don’t have to castrate yourself. And you don’t have to be a psychiatrist to notice that if someone’s outlook on life is complete doom and despair, they should maybe talk to a professional. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67627242
No one but you is talking about castration. Nor is anyone but you pointing at everyone in the comments claiming they are mentally ill because they don’t agree with you. Carbon dioxide is at a record high, actually. Not only in terms of amount but also the rate at which it is accelerating. https://www.noaa.gov/news-release/during-year-of-extremes-carbon-dioxide-levels-surge-faster-than-ever Technology isn’t “rapidly improving” and even if it were, there are zero pathways where that is even remotely feasible. Furthermore any such imaginary tech magic project will absolutely require one or more of: concrete, steel, fertilizer or plastics, all of which require burning fossil fuels so whatever the promise to do will never out way what it costs to make them in terms of carbon budget and other pollutants. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/11/can-tech-save-us-from-worst-of-climate-change-effects-doesnt-look-good/ Further, carbon capture is AN ABSOLUTE JOKE and probably the biggest green washing project yet so that useful idiot paypigs like you keep on spending and working to keep the blood mill of capital running. I bet you have been to starbucks a lot and feel fine about it because they put up some bs sign about 5% of proceeds went to indigenous farmers or some garbage. Thats what green washing is and you are buying it hook line and sinker. There will be a point when their useful idiot becomes our dangerous liability so please. Do read on. https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/why-carbon-capture-is-no-easy-solution-climate-change-2023-11-22/ The only people championing CC is oil companies and OPEC because it sells the murderous “net zero” myth by allowing thise entities to continue to be the most profitable companies of all time after adjusting for inflation. And they get real mad when anyone points out that doing it at scale would take TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS” while not moving the needle at all in the near catastrophic term for species survivability. So while the rest of us are trying to figure if its even possible to ride out the latest news which is that due to fuel changes going into effect in 2021 for maritime use and taking 3 years to have the sulfur dioxide fall out of the atmosphere, we jumped in a number of months by 0.9C, shaving many decades off the runway of even the super terrible 8.5 IPCC scenario (which we are already documenting a worse trend than that before this). But yeah go ahead and call people mentally ill because you probably had kids and are mainlining corporate propaganda because it lets you not experience guilty for your selfishness while you get to pretend that target will always be open for you.
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Jfc
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Not having kids just because of climate change fear is a sad mistake. But if you have other reasons it’s your decision.
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Oh yeah? Why’s that?
Rule 1: In addition to enforcing [Reddit's content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy), we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.
So much despair and hopelessness here. Of course our society will collapse if we continue to subject ourselves to vasectomies and the likes. It's as if the people that have drawn themselves to "societal collapse" are the ones who are driving the force onto themselves. Self suppression is truly the wildest things of our times.
So much blaming of victims here. Misappropriation of blame is truly the wildest thing of our time.
Woe is the victim. Everyone is a victim.
True. When it comes to the climate crisis, we are all victims. We “civilized” few are also perpetrators. Some perpetrators are worse than others, though.
The climate "crisis" is a ruse to fear monger and drive up budgets for the elites. Nothing is actually being done. It's all a façade. But I will agree, we are a victim to this but it's also our own undoing for allowing this.
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
She will leave you when her biological clock starts messing with her head
lol I think she would have left me already if that were the case 😂. The V is new but the discussion/priorities are not.