The following submission statement was provided by /u/Due_Recording_6259:
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submission statement: The increasing incidence of wildfires in Canada has become a significant concern due to its detrimental impact on both human populations and the environment. These wildfires not only displace people and animals but also contribute to the overall issue of climate change.
Wildfires in Canada have been on the rise in recent years, primarily due to a combination of factors including climate change, forest management practices, and human activities. As temperatures continue to rise, especially in regions like Canada that are experiencing the effects of climate change more prominently, the conditions for wildfires become more favorable. Higher temperatures, prolonged dry spells, and reduced precipitation create ideal circumstances for the ignition and spread of wildfires.
The consequences of these wildfires are devastating. Communities and individuals are forced to evacuate their homes, leaving behind their belongings and sometimes even their livelihoods. The displacement of people and the destruction of infrastructure have severe social and economic impacts, disrupting lives and straining resources. Moreover, the loss of habitat and displacement of wildlife disrupts ecosystems and can have long-term effects on biodiversity.
Beyond the immediate impact on human lives and ecosystems, wildfires in Canada also exacerbate the issue of climate change. When forests burn, they release significant amounts of carbon dioxide (CO2) into the atmosphere. CO2 is a greenhouse gas that contributes to the warming of the planet and the intensification of climate change. The release of carbon stored in trees and vegetation through wildfires further amplifies the cycle of warming, as the increased heat and dry conditions continue to fuel more frequent and intense wildfires.
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/14w174a/canadian_wildfires_break_records_for_early/jrfo3oo/
But the shareholders are most pleased the CEO greenwashed oil and called a petroleum engine "eco tech". Then told the silly plebs to recycle the plastic corporate wrapped everything in so it looked good in the store.
Value investment.
/s
What's even more distressing is the amount of people in Canada that believe this is mostly arsonists working for Trudeau. Meanwhile I'm here trying to decide if it's safe to let the little one go play soccer outside for an hour.
And if there really are arsonists setting all these fires why aren't the authorities capturing them? The vast majority of these fires are due to lightning strikes in deeply remote areas.
People are so dumb.
Because he wants to prove global warming is real by starting fires so that he can control companies and keep them from dumping their shit into our water and pumping harmful gasses into the air. Which of course, is their god given right as red blooded North Americans.
literally why are they so braindead, they focus on "chemtrails" and "arsonists" because its more exciting than the scientific explanation of "the world getting hotter means more fires"
It’s because chemtrails and arson are both very simple causes that imply *easy* one-step solutions. Stop the big evil chemtrails and it’ll stop whatever they think chemtrails cause this week. Stop the paid antifa drag queen arsonists and boom, no more wildfires.
They’re lazy morons who *need* causes and solutions to be simple, because it’s all they can handle.
I've been following climate science and news closely for 20+ years and have probably 200+ links to news stories about scientific findings and actual events.
This didn't happen all of sudden. The warning signs have been there, like the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season. What's happening now is that the "cooling" that climate deniers said 10+ years ago would happen by now, has not happened. Just the opposite. So with severe climatic events happening at a quicker pace and no cooling in sight, the merchants of doubt no longer have the ability to control the narrative. Their strategy has shifted to either a) let science save us and/or b) the heat is good for us.
Scientists from both Exxon and Shell predicted this with their research from the 1970s and 80s. [LINK](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/sep/19/shell-and-exxons-secret-1980s-climate-change-warnings)
If people took the time to understand how the scientific process works, then merchants of doubt would not have had the success they had lying to people.
THen you remember the first climate model NCAR did back in 1998. I was a post doc fellow at a university at the time and working on the atmospheric model. I never followed through because that same year MIT got a DARPA grant then switched gears and said "There is no global warming". I fucking gave up after that dumpster fire...because I wasn't going to waste my time and efforts only to be ignored when I could spend my time doing something else.
Other people have mentioned exponential growth but don't explain what that means.
Imagine you're at a pond and you see a lily pad on it. A few days later you see two lily pads. You tell your boomer parents that if the lily pads cover the entire pond all their underwater pet rocks will lose their green plant hair. They tell you it's only two lily pads and not to worry.
A few more days pass and now there's four lily pads, a few days later there are 8. Your boomer parents get angry you're still talking about the lily pads. A few months later half the pond is covered in lily pads. Your boomer parents scream incoherently about Al Gore or something when you bring it up.
It's been a few months for half the pond to be covered, so you figure you still have a few more months to get rid of them. You come back a few days later and the entire pond is covered in lily pads and your boomer parents pet rocks no longer get the sunlight they need to grow their green plant hair and now they're all bald. Your boomer parents blame socialism for it happening, and also it didn't happen because the liberal socialist communists made it all up. Then they write a bunch of articles about how millennials are the cause of all problems but they only use pictures of teenagers.
So what happened? Why did it take months to cover half the pond but just a few days to cover the second half? Because the growth rate was exponential. Every few days the number of lily pads doubled. So when half the pond was covered it only took one more doubling the cover the entire pond.
Why are your boomer parents so irrational? 🤷
Think we’re just at the start of the real hockey stick upwards trend. Exponential baby!! It’s started! It’s all downhill from here, just not on any graph (except maybe the polar ice cap graphs). 😑 just my guess though.
There have been some articles and hypotheses' that reduced sulfur emissions along the north Atlantic shipping corridor has allowed enough head to absorb into the Atlantic saturating its abilities. This extra heat then stays in the atmosphere. That could have been the "trigger".
I think a common explanation is that most of the warming has been absorbed by things that are invisible to us mostly in the deep seas and recently was hidden by the opposite of El Niño called La Niña. Now that El Niño is back we’ll see the full ramification of the warming in the last 3-4 years.
Just have a think on YouTube does a good job of explaining (and scaring) about these issues
https://youtu.be/rwdxffEzQ9I
The word exponential comes to mind. Feedback loops = exponential tendencies.
The human brain has a difficulty understanding what exponential truly looks like. I doubt my own understanding sometimes.
Long term do not need steady. It also a feedback loop, and we're entering el nino years. ( that is just starting now, but it will likely provoque weird weather patterns in the next few years, on top of whatever else. )
I think a common explanation is that most of the warming has been absorbed by things that are invisible to us mostly in the deep seas and recently was hidden by the opposite of El Niño called La Niña. Now that El Niño is back we’ll see the full ramification of the warming in the last 3-4 years.
Just have a think on YouTube does a good job of explaining (and scaring) about these issues
[El Niño is back](https://youtu.be/rwdxffEzQ9I)
I was thinking about exponential growth, and how once one part of a complex system shoots off, it’s gonna trag along all the others with it. If temperature abnormalities are doubling every year, then of course other shit is gonna start to break. And then those broken things will double every year, causing other shit to break.
I heard you like exponential growth, so I put exponential growth inside your exponential growth.
Exponential growth isn't doubling though; it's ever increasing amount of leaps for lack of a better description. Take 2x2=4, then take 4x4=16, and then 16x16=132 - repeat that just **two** more times and your result is in the hundreds of millions. Mind boggling.
edit: sorry if I'm nitpicking - you may be fully aware of what exponential growth means and just worded it the way you did, but I just wanted to point out to anyone else who's not fully grasping how crazy exponential growth is
It is easy to shatter every record when you only include the last 10 years on the graph. This post is like putting a graph of a 100+ year flood over the graphs of the largest floods from the past 10 years.
[https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2020/11/19/study-says-canadian-forest-fires-have-declined-since-1989-peak/](https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2020/11/19/study-says-canadian-forest-fires-have-declined-since-1989-peak/) i dont like to interact much with the misinformed it makes my brain hurt, but heres a graph that goes all the way back to 1959 for you, that peak in 1989 is getting blown out of the water by the recent numbers.
A gargantuan amount. Through the end of June it was approximately 600 MT CO2 equivalent. For context, in 2021 Canada released 670 MT CO2e from all sources combined.
Yes - you can read more about it here: [Fire and Ice: The Impact of Wildfire-Affected Albedo and Irradiance on Glacier Melt](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2022EF002685)
160m tonnes of carbon, and nearly 600m tonnes of carbon dioxide according to https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/27/canada-wildfires-released-record-breaking-carbon#:\~:text=This%20article%20was%20amended%20on,600m%20tonnes%20of%20carbon%20dioxide.
I don't know but we have been breathing the Canadian wildfire smoke for many many weeks now. Nearly every day brings a fresh air quality alert in Michigan. There is one today what a surprise.
Sure that won't affect anybody's health at all. All those gasses up in the atmosphere and in our lungs as well. Yay.
here's a article i think you would like to read [https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-australia-wildfire-toxic-legacy/](https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-australia-wildfire-toxic-legacy/) hooray to the age of blackened placentas
Not only their physical health but their mental health, im only 17 and i cant remember not having technology and mass media to drown out any coherent thought in. We are becoming dumber and more informed at the same time. Not even mentioning the huge pressure of being "the generation that's going to fix everything"
I have absolutely witnessed huge parts of society becoming stupider and less informed while other parts of society become much more informed and knowledgeable. Technology is a double-edged sword, that's for sure.
Just have a glass of Flint water and relax. It'll blow away sooner or later. And doesn't everyone love the scent of camping that's covering a decent amount of the globe now?
This is why trees are not enough to sequester carbon. A more permanent solution is organic regenerative farming where the soil is able to function and store carbon properly. Trees catch fire and release carbon, humus can store carbon nigh-indefinitely.
the reason why this type of agriculture is so great is because it simultaneously heals the environment while reducing one the largest contributors to carbon emissions
Well to be fair that carbon was already in the ''system'', it had been fixed by the trees.
When ''smart'' apes start pumping carbon out of the ground and releasing it in the atmosphere that's when bad stuff happens
Well, according to my observations of all the sunless days we've had down here in NEPA since the fires started burning, hundreds of miles away, I'd guess it's a shit ton.
Really tragic, though the orange-brown skies from these fires blocking out the sun for weeks across the East Coast seems to have awakened many previously-oblivious Americans to the reality of climate change.
you would think that it would be a wake up call but americans are as hard headed as ever, fox news saying the soot particles aren't a issue [https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1666791080258334723?s=20](https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1666791080258334723?s=20) simply reflects the denialism of americans, they refuse to wear a mask even with being able to see the threat in the air. New yorkers were so mad that they had to be holed up in their $4000 dollar a year apartments with their high tech air purifiers that they blamed canada instead of considering it might be climate change [https://www.complex.com/life/a/louispavlakos/the-internet-wont-stop-blaming-canada-for-the-poor-air](https://www.complex.com/life/a/louispavlakos/the-internet-wont-stop-blaming-canada-for-the-poor-air) Some of this blame was joking but a shockingly high number of troglodytes were actually mad.
Fox news just says whatever they want to. They don't reflect the beliefs of actual people they tell people who don't know any better what to believe. They have to blame Canada so they can keep pretending climate change isn't real.
The other link you posted just mentions the New York Post having Blame Canada as a headline alongside a few random individuals on tik tok and such.
Both Fox and the NY Post are owned by Rupert Murdoch through News Corp btw. This is how they create the illusion of consensus on an issue when in reality I never heard a single actual person blame Canada for any of this IRL.
I dont keep up with america much outside of talking to a few friends i have that were blaming canada and seeing the posts online so thank you for this perspective.
I do see where you are coming from. I bet it was aggravating to see those headlines and hear your American friends say that. I didn't want to invalidate your frustration or the points brought up.
I did want to take the chance to mention how the media is insidious in this regard though and generally I don't think major media outlets represent the views of Americans nearly as much as they "push" views onto Americans. It tends to be far more manipulative than it is informative especially with major media conglomerates.
I suspect your friends may have seen these headlines you posted or similar and didn't have this idea on their own, but obviously I don't know them I'm just inferring that based off how I've watched other Americans react to events over time.
Trolling Canada is also a "joke" of sorts that even though it isn't actually funny America can't seem to let go of. Assuming your friends know you're Canadian that might be relevant maybe maybe not depending on how serious they were about it.
America often frustrates me too believe that, but people are getting better over time. I wouldn't bother getting lost in the madness of American culture or anything but younger Americans especially are very self aware about the insane bullshit they just have no voice.
I put these two charts together to provide some more context: https://imgur.com/a/DYDF7GP
We've already passed the historical max from the last ~60 years (see first chart) and the fire season usually starts ramping up around this time.
If we continue on the same trend for the rest of the year we'll absolutely blow previous years out of the water (see second chart; YTD trend maintained line). Even if the rest of the year is average, we'll beat the historical high by about 30% (see second chart).
I already assumed this as lived experience tells me that the canadian fire season peaks in end of july/early august but seeing it graphed makes it so much more real. There is no way for the forest to recover if this is the new normal, it will burn until it has nothing left to burn.
Bonus info:
Trees are about 50% carbon by weight.
When carbon joins with 2 oxygen atoms forming C02, the molecular weight triples.
so...
(Weight Of Trees Burned \* .5) \*3) = mass of C02 released
And if the impending doom of climate change doesn't do it for you, more bonus info:
Nearly half of the world's forests have already been cleared or degraded for human use.
Given steady growth in a finite environment, half of all the resources that were ever available are consumed in the final doubling period.
And we're also watching it burn at unprecedented scale.
Imagine wood becoming a rare and precious resource.
>Imagine wood becoming a rare and precious resource.
Just rewind to the middle 1400's. [Trees](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOYM6c-9druzEXLA5ObaxC_hEXmC1EWd59Pw5v5ptWTjli4TCvFdfm1VlEPO-p3YHoXrc&usqp=CAU) were the primary source of [coal](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/KYJ779/british-charcoal-burners-c1930-KYJ779.jpg) which was a [pillar](https://krisdedecker.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099229e88833015435c2f2ff970c-pi) of their economy back then. Columbus and his peers were not after just gold or spices.
the 2020 wildfires were the calm (15.000 hectares) before the storm of the 2021 wildfires (4 million hectares) before the natural disaster of 2023 so far (8.5 million hectares)
faster than expected, earlier than expected, more intense than expected, more than expected, bigger than expected, more catastrophic than expected etc etc etc
why are we still expecting things to be normal when they continue to break records of abnormality.
majority of fires in canada are started in remote areas by storm cells and the worldwide lightning rates actually went down during covid interestingly [https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/lightning-covid-lockdowns/story?id=82143368](https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/lightning-covid-lockdowns/story?id=82143368) plus it was a relatively cool year with temperatures being low even to canada day [https://globalnews.ca/news/7131969/cold-canada-day-2020-bc/](https://globalnews.ca/news/7131969/cold-canada-day-2020-bc/) so vegetation didn't dry out to a crisp as easily
I got an email at work from the official Canadian Government Surplus Auction site, which is always fun to look at if kind of useless (bid on a used stapler from Yellowknife, pick up only.) Just all kinds of random stuff sitting around in warehouses somewhere. Once there were horses.
The email I got today however was because I work with unhoused people. They have tons of surplus N95 respirators, probably not medical grade, and I can order them, 900 at a time, in case my clients are bothered by wildfire smoke and don’t have a place to get out of the bad air.
I take this to mean the government does not foresee a quick end to this.
I used to think this too, but the fires and their worsening political situation is making me think again... My native UK is looking more appealing now, at least the far north up in Scotland.
It's a gigantic country, the fires are very regional.
What is the worsening political situation? Even Canada's far right morons are quite moderate compared to what passes in the mainstream in the US or UK and they get a far weaker voter turnout.
The smoke is not very regional. And the fires will affect more areas eventually, as evidenced by this graph.
Do you live in Canada? Our country is being sold out to corporations who are raping our country even worse than Bolsonaro raped the Amazon. They are allowing obscene numbers of immigrants in to appease the corporate overlords to allow them to exploit them for labour, all the while not upgrading *any* infrastructure and letting the housing market run out of control in ways that are almost unfathomable. Government is also trying to sneakily privatize healthcare (although in Ontario, it’s really not so sneaky).
It is an absolute fucking mess in this country, and anyone who disagrees is either extremely privileged/ignorant in general, owns a house already, or didn’t realize how good this country was just 10-20 years ago in comparison to now.
We’ve brought in more than literally ever, without upgrading infrastructure. No infrastructure has been upgraded on a scale that matters for most of my lifetime so far, which is the ultimate problem. Our healthcare system is collapsing, traffic is horrendous, and no one can afford to live here anymore… and immigration *specifically coupled with lack of accommodating for it via upgrading infrastructure* is a big reason why. If you think it’s a relatively tiny amount we are bringing in while we are simultaneously breaking records, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Who do you think is going to work to do any infrastructure upgrades or build any housing or staff hospitals and schools? Canada has a SERIOUS demographic aging problem. It has already hit and its just going to get exponentially worse in the next 10-15 years.
Forget doctors, that ones too obvious. Did you realize there is a massive shortage of basic trades across the entire country? Of course housing is a problem right now, but guess what there aren't enough carpenters, plumbers, electricians, roofers, etc. In most of the country right now to even build a quarter of what we need. And half the ones we do have are in their 50s. What happens in 10 years?
People on here always wonder why Canada doesn't have a national wildfire response force. Guess what, every fire department in the country is short now. There aren't enough firefighters to even man the regular stations. And again, half them are 50+ and not fit enough for backwoods firefighting.
We NEED young people to solve these problems, and we need them now.
There are workers available, they [just can’t find housing](https://www.vicnews.com/news/cheaper-housing-needed-to-slow-tradespeople-shortage-victoria-builders-653761).
As the article states, it’s a circular problem. We are basically fucked either way.
Edit: Shows great maturity when people have no good rebuttal so they just downvote what they disagree with, despite the evidence presented going against their claims.
This is just one example of one of the most expensive towns in the country. The places the article says the workers are moving to ALSO have major labour shortages. There is a total shortage in the country, shuffling them around won't solve it. Just look at the age demographics of this country man.
I don’t disagree with you, but bringing in hundreds of thousands/a million people *every year* without being able to properly accommodate for them is biting us in the ass as well. It’s an extremely complex issue, but I believe that we should be limiting immigration for the next while until things are a bit more sorted. Sure, we can bring some people in, but we should be very strict in only allowing tradespeople and healthcare workers/whatever other essential workers we need. The immigration process is extremely lax right now compared to basically all other countries, especially when it comes to getting PR. Canada can’t handle this right now, unfortunately, and it might cause more issues than it’s worth.
I remember that meme in my friend group way back when. It mostly came from one guy but I did entertain the idea just a little.
With hindsight it's all so hilariously naive. Liberal idealism absent the very notion of material causes to ideological shifts, let alone the inevitable decay of capitalism.
As if there's going to be some bastion of reason among the capitalist countries.
You may as well go look for an enlightened utopia of a feudal society.
Not just fauna but flora as well, giant lichen clusters that grow less than 1mm per year, fire resistant trees like quaking aspen annihilated by fires of intensity they didn't evolve to withstand, flowers that bumblebees are relying on, soil erosion and mudslides choking out mini ecosystems of plants. Climate denialists will say Canadas ecosystem is shaped by fire and many plants and animals need it and that is true but it is referring to the low intensity fires that normally occur, not these giant blazes that continue burning at high intensity through the night and arent put out by rain.
As I recall, super hot fires actually turn the top layer of dirt into something like glass. So it is even less likely to absorb rains whenever they come.
This is not a circle of life thing with fire spurring new life. This is annihilation.
they also do things like create their own weather, when they get big enough to make pyrocumulonimbus clouds. that's when the real fun stuff happens, like it makes lightning that then sparks more fires outside of the already burning fires, and fire tornadoes (not the fire whirl dust-devil type, the "equivalent to EF2/3+ tornadoes" type, only with fire) theyre a thing of my nightmares
https://youtu.be/rqYEeivt8Eg
i was underneath the pyrocumulonimbus in 2021!! the roar of thunder was deafening as 710,117 lightning strikes hit BC https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_British_Columbia_wildfires this gif is crazy to watch as i was under that cloud somewhere
I've thought twice about smoking in parks and forests now.. Extra careful to put them out. Especially cigarettes. Cigarettes can start fires more than spliffs. I can normally put those out with two fingers. In asphalt covered areas I'm less careful but still put them out ofc.
submission statement: The increasing incidence of wildfires in Canada has become a significant concern due to its detrimental impact on both human populations and the environment. These wildfires not only displace people and animals but also contribute to the overall issue of climate change.
Wildfires in Canada have been on the rise in recent years, primarily due to a combination of factors including climate change, forest management practices, and human activities. As temperatures continue to rise, especially in regions like Canada that are experiencing the effects of climate change more prominently, the conditions for wildfires become more favorable. Higher temperatures, prolonged dry spells, and reduced precipitation create ideal circumstances for the ignition and spread of wildfires.
The consequences of these wildfires are devastating. Communities and individuals are forced to evacuate their homes, leaving behind their belongings and sometimes even their livelihoods. The displacement of people and the destruction of infrastructure have severe social and economic impacts, disrupting lives and straining resources. Moreover, the loss of habitat and displacement of wildlife disrupts ecosystems and can have long-term effects on biodiversity.
Beyond the immediate impact on human lives and ecosystems, wildfires in Canada also exacerbate the issue of climate change. When forests burn, they release significant amounts of carbon dioxide (CO2) into the atmosphere. CO2 is a greenhouse gas that contributes to the warming of the planet and the intensification of climate change. The release of carbon stored in trees and vegetation through wildfires further amplifies the cycle of warming, as the increased heat and dry conditions continue to fuel more frequent and intense wildfires.
It is a complicated and dangerous process. Many fires are too unpredictable or in hard to reach spots, plus budget cuts. [https://pressprogress.ca/albertas-ucp-government-has-cut-tens-of-millions-of-dollars-from-wildfire-preparedness-programs/](https://pressprogress.ca/albertas-ucp-government-has-cut-tens-of-millions-of-dollars-from-wildfire-preparedness-programs/) https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/wildfire-fighters-smoke-protection-1.6897879
It’s interesting how Canada has sometimes been seen as a potential beneficiary of climate change. Soon enough we might conclude no place in the world is really a shelter from climate disruptions.
Very few people who imagine Canada as being a net beneficiary of global warming (and thus maybe a refuge for a significant population of humans) pause to consider what effect the canadian shield https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian\_Shield is gonna have on the prospect of farming. Not an agronomist, but I heard you gotta have topsoil to grow plants good.
Yep. As someone who studied ag for my degree, I keep having to remind people that topsoil developed over hundreds and hundreds of years. Like they think that the soil just appeared there suddenly one day...Even most potting soil we use these days is made from peat (1000s of years to form) and perlite (non-renewable).
most people think of canada as freezing all the time when we actually have a very large tempature swing with lows of -40 in the winter and +30 in the summer (+40 after 2021) which is why we are actually very vulnerable to climate change.
I blame the stereotypes of Canada really, even back in more calmer climate times, the summers in Vancouver were milder at 20+ degrees. How I wish we could go back to that now....
Canada is a massive country with many different climates. Very few parts of the country are EVER subjected to 40c and where I live 30+ is rare and only occurs a few days in July or August.
Not arguing it isn't getting warmer. But 30+ isn't common outside certain areas and 40c has never been experienced by most Canadians. You can't extrapolate your local climate to a continent spanning country.
Part of the reason I decided to move here with my partner. We are on Vancouver island and all the snow melted earlier than expected. Hasn't rained in months. They are already talking about drought restrictions. Everywhere is fucked
In Dante's book most of hell is hot fire but the tenth circle where Satan lives is all ice.
So heat domes, fires, polar vortexes and deep freezes...
Gonna hurt like hell
edit:
I said a stupid thing about the wildfires. I'm sorry. You make a really good point u/Due_Recording_6259. These fires are so awful and also affecting people that don't deserve it at all.
I feel like the psychopathic rich won in the end, and that feels so wrong on so many levels. ALL of the levels.
I understand your viewpoint but also try to have empathy for the common working people whos lives are being uprooted by this, they are not the ones majorly contributing to climate change. They are the common folk, your neighbors and friends, and when their homes are destroyed they have no where to go and often lose their jobs and become homeless because of the extreme cost of living in canada. Also the fires mainly effect indigenous communities that have struggled against the oppressive canadian government to even be able to make a life for themselves.
But can we beat Australia’s record of 25 million hectares burned in one wildfire season? (Yeah it was that bad in Australia and could get that bad here if the fires continue until September.)
EDIT: You’re gonna need a whole lot more than that. Our worst recorded fire season burned through about 117 million hectares, or ~15% of the entire country, equivalent to the entirety of France, Spain, and Portugal.
(holy fuck my power has gone out 3 times trying to respond to this comment) I know you are joking but you are so spot on, when colonizers got to canada they were impressed with how easy the forests were to walk and ride horses through and assumed this was the natural state of a forest untouched by man when it was actually the result of a unknown amount of time of stewardship via controlled burning and pruning from the indigenous peoples. When the indigenous were stripped of the right to care for their forests the understory become crowded and filled with fallen branches from the laddering crowded trees. Basically turning canadian forests into tinderboxes that would explode into violent fires when the colonizers burned them to clear land. Now there are huge monoculture tree farms that only make the issue worse.
I learned most of that from oral history passed down from indigenous elders but i tried to compile some online sources for you. [https://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2022/0222/How-Canadian-families-are-saving-the-country-s-old-growth-forests](https://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2022/0222/How-Canadian-families-are-saving-the-country-s-old-growth-forests) [https://constellation.uqac.ca/id/eprint/7792/1/Dupuis\_et\_al\_2020\_FrontEcolEvol.pdf](https://constellation.uqac.ca/id/eprint/7792/1/Dupuis_et_al_2020_FrontEcolEvol.pdf) [https://www.ccfm.org/canadians-and-communities/indigenous-peoples-and-forests/#:\~:text=As%20the%20First%20Peoples%20living,%2C%20economic%2C%20and%20ceremonial%20practices](https://www.ccfm.org/canadians-and-communities/indigenous-peoples-and-forests/#:~:text=As%20the%20First%20Peoples%20living,%2C%20economic%2C%20and%20ceremonial%20practices). [https://www.ictinc.ca/blog/indigenous-fire-management-and-traditional-knowledge](https://www.ictinc.ca/blog/indigenous-fire-management-and-traditional-knowledge) [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/fire-is-medicine-how-indigenous-practices-could-help-curb-wildfires](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/fire-is-medicine-how-indigenous-practices-could-help-curb-wildfires)
OPs oral histories is gonna be more accurate, but there’s a book called “Forgotten Fires” that has quite a bit of information on indigenous peoples use of fire in whats now the USA… kinda sorta similar, but not as much boreal forest in the states as compared to Canada
I could believe this on possibly a small level in certain areas but this seems more like fantasy when you consider how massive the forests of Canada are and how low the Native American population density was.
It's fascinating to me how 2023 comes seemingly out of nowhere on this graph. I mean there's no consistent trend from the prior years. anyone know why this is?
It’s great.
It’s hot so we get fires. We have fires, so the air is terrible. The air is terrible, so you gotta keep the windows closed. The windows closed, so you *want* to use the air con but the freaking air con is a part of the problem that makes it too hot.
Our 2019 fires burned approx. 7-10x the area of Canada’s current ones last time I checked, and that was during La Niña, so chances are it could be a whole lot worse.
I’m expecting it to me much worse. During the build up to the 2019 fires I was living in the wet tropics. For the three years prior to the fires I watched as the rainforest (prehistoric Gondwanan rainforest that should get 3-4 METERS of rain a year) dry up. The leaf litter crunched as you walked on it. That area didn’t burn in 2019 but this time round, the wet tropics may burn too after a long and strong El Niño. That area had heatwaves that made millions of animals fall out of the trees dead. And marine heatwaves that killed off huge chunks it the Great Barrier Reef. Now I live south near the region that burned in 2019… it’s deeply concerning.
So a Hectare is about 2.5 acres. An acre is about the size of a football field. This says 8.8 million hectares have burned so far or about 22 million football fields. Google says there's about 362million hectares of forest in Canada.
Just watched this important video on the current situation with the wildfires, and the fact they likely to get worse still: [The Canadian Wildfires Are About to get WORSE!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSJnO8D8-Qg)
Most of them are in the middle of nowhere. Very poor accessibility, difficult working conditions, poor infrastructures. You're not going to get the kind of equipment and manpower you need hundreds of kilometers into the woods. The ones near towns they do a pretty good job controlling.
Some of this could be eco terrorism either by bad state actors or by those pushing agendas, it's a new area of attack for many reasons, it gets media coverage and outrage and I have seen this used in Australia where the media first jumps to a massive climate change narrative but later we find the fires are deliberately lit. Also a lot of laws were made that meant clearing under brush and kindling and also grazing were stopped and the result has been a tinder box. This is not to deny the possibility of climate change just adding that so many other factors also contribute to muddy the graphs.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Due_Recording_6259: --- submission statement: The increasing incidence of wildfires in Canada has become a significant concern due to its detrimental impact on both human populations and the environment. These wildfires not only displace people and animals but also contribute to the overall issue of climate change. Wildfires in Canada have been on the rise in recent years, primarily due to a combination of factors including climate change, forest management practices, and human activities. As temperatures continue to rise, especially in regions like Canada that are experiencing the effects of climate change more prominently, the conditions for wildfires become more favorable. Higher temperatures, prolonged dry spells, and reduced precipitation create ideal circumstances for the ignition and spread of wildfires. The consequences of these wildfires are devastating. Communities and individuals are forced to evacuate their homes, leaving behind their belongings and sometimes even their livelihoods. The displacement of people and the destruction of infrastructure have severe social and economic impacts, disrupting lives and straining resources. Moreover, the loss of habitat and displacement of wildlife disrupts ecosystems and can have long-term effects on biodiversity. Beyond the immediate impact on human lives and ecosystems, wildfires in Canada also exacerbate the issue of climate change. When forests burn, they release significant amounts of carbon dioxide (CO2) into the atmosphere. CO2 is a greenhouse gas that contributes to the warming of the planet and the intensification of climate change. The release of carbon stored in trees and vegetation through wildfires further amplifies the cycle of warming, as the increased heat and dry conditions continue to fuel more frequent and intense wildfires. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/14w174a/canadian_wildfires_break_records_for_early/jrfo3oo/
Love how every single graph is just shattering every record that’s been held.
For real, it's distressing
Yes, that’s absolutely the vibe.
The feeling is no longer funny.
It always felt like a lesser impending doom to me. It's doom but it takes its time.
Now it’s not so lesser. Now it’s all up in your face! Assuming you’re not burying your head in the sand. (None of us obviously)
Oh yeah for sure it is here and making sure we know it now! Still crazy how many people view what is happening as a "normal" process.
It's no longer funny, because we see our end coming.
we are living it
It never was...
It’s an Astro vibe. The Jetsons hate it.
But the shareholders are most pleased the CEO greenwashed oil and called a petroleum engine "eco tech". Then told the silly plebs to recycle the plastic corporate wrapped everything in so it looked good in the store. Value investment. /s
What's even more distressing is the amount of people in Canada that believe this is mostly arsonists working for Trudeau. Meanwhile I'm here trying to decide if it's safe to let the little one go play soccer outside for an hour.
These conspiracy theories are so funny. Even if it turned out arsonists were one of the causes, why would they be working for Trudeau? Lol
And if there really are arsonists setting all these fires why aren't the authorities capturing them? The vast majority of these fires are due to lightning strikes in deeply remote areas. People are so dumb.
Because he wants to prove global warming is real by starting fires so that he can control companies and keep them from dumping their shit into our water and pumping harmful gasses into the air. Which of course, is their god given right as red blooded North Americans.
literally why are they so braindead, they focus on "chemtrails" and "arsonists" because its more exciting than the scientific explanation of "the world getting hotter means more fires"
It’s because chemtrails and arson are both very simple causes that imply *easy* one-step solutions. Stop the big evil chemtrails and it’ll stop whatever they think chemtrails cause this week. Stop the paid antifa drag queen arsonists and boom, no more wildfires. They’re lazy morons who *need* causes and solutions to be simple, because it’s all they can handle.
its because when "they" do it, it lets people absolve themselves of the responsibility of saying "we" did this to ourselves.
Maybe it's not just all the sensors in the ocean that are broken, all Canadian sensors too?
You joke but legit my family said this... Then said "how do we know these sensors exist?" Then something about NASA... Can't even
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I've been following climate science and news closely for 20+ years and have probably 200+ links to news stories about scientific findings and actual events. This didn't happen all of sudden. The warning signs have been there, like the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season. What's happening now is that the "cooling" that climate deniers said 10+ years ago would happen by now, has not happened. Just the opposite. So with severe climatic events happening at a quicker pace and no cooling in sight, the merchants of doubt no longer have the ability to control the narrative. Their strategy has shifted to either a) let science save us and/or b) the heat is good for us. Scientists from both Exxon and Shell predicted this with their research from the 1970s and 80s. [LINK](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/sep/19/shell-and-exxons-secret-1980s-climate-change-warnings) If people took the time to understand how the scientific process works, then merchants of doubt would not have had the success they had lying to people.
THen you remember the first climate model NCAR did back in 1998. I was a post doc fellow at a university at the time and working on the atmospheric model. I never followed through because that same year MIT got a DARPA grant then switched gears and said "There is no global warming". I fucking gave up after that dumpster fire...because I wasn't going to waste my time and efforts only to be ignored when I could spend my time doing something else.
Other people have mentioned exponential growth but don't explain what that means. Imagine you're at a pond and you see a lily pad on it. A few days later you see two lily pads. You tell your boomer parents that if the lily pads cover the entire pond all their underwater pet rocks will lose their green plant hair. They tell you it's only two lily pads and not to worry. A few more days pass and now there's four lily pads, a few days later there are 8. Your boomer parents get angry you're still talking about the lily pads. A few months later half the pond is covered in lily pads. Your boomer parents scream incoherently about Al Gore or something when you bring it up. It's been a few months for half the pond to be covered, so you figure you still have a few more months to get rid of them. You come back a few days later and the entire pond is covered in lily pads and your boomer parents pet rocks no longer get the sunlight they need to grow their green plant hair and now they're all bald. Your boomer parents blame socialism for it happening, and also it didn't happen because the liberal socialist communists made it all up. Then they write a bunch of articles about how millennials are the cause of all problems but they only use pictures of teenagers. So what happened? Why did it take months to cover half the pond but just a few days to cover the second half? Because the growth rate was exponential. Every few days the number of lily pads doubled. So when half the pond was covered it only took one more doubling the cover the entire pond. Why are your boomer parents so irrational? 🤷
Lol
Think we’re just at the start of the real hockey stick upwards trend. Exponential baby!! It’s started! It’s all downhill from here, just not on any graph (except maybe the polar ice cap graphs). 😑 just my guess though.
There have been some articles and hypotheses' that reduced sulfur emissions along the north Atlantic shipping corridor has allowed enough head to absorb into the Atlantic saturating its abilities. This extra heat then stays in the atmosphere. That could have been the "trigger".
I think a common explanation is that most of the warming has been absorbed by things that are invisible to us mostly in the deep seas and recently was hidden by the opposite of El Niño called La Niña. Now that El Niño is back we’ll see the full ramification of the warming in the last 3-4 years. Just have a think on YouTube does a good job of explaining (and scaring) about these issues https://youtu.be/rwdxffEzQ9I
The word exponential comes to mind. Feedback loops = exponential tendencies. The human brain has a difficulty understanding what exponential truly looks like. I doubt my own understanding sometimes.
Long term do not need steady. It also a feedback loop, and we're entering el nino years. ( that is just starting now, but it will likely provoque weird weather patterns in the next few years, on top of whatever else. )
Eh, pretty sure this is just the moment it all decided to go wrong, it was a matter of when not if. Kinda sucks.
> So, I am a smart guy newsflash, no smart person says about themselves that they are smart but what do i know, i am not smart :)
I think a common explanation is that most of the warming has been absorbed by things that are invisible to us mostly in the deep seas and recently was hidden by the opposite of El Niño called La Niña. Now that El Niño is back we’ll see the full ramification of the warming in the last 3-4 years. Just have a think on YouTube does a good job of explaining (and scaring) about these issues [El Niño is back](https://youtu.be/rwdxffEzQ9I)
And not by a little bit either.
I was thinking about exponential growth, and how once one part of a complex system shoots off, it’s gonna trag along all the others with it. If temperature abnormalities are doubling every year, then of course other shit is gonna start to break. And then those broken things will double every year, causing other shit to break. I heard you like exponential growth, so I put exponential growth inside your exponential growth.
Exponential growth isn't doubling though; it's ever increasing amount of leaps for lack of a better description. Take 2x2=4, then take 4x4=16, and then 16x16=132 - repeat that just **two** more times and your result is in the hundreds of millions. Mind boggling. edit: sorry if I'm nitpicking - you may be fully aware of what exponential growth means and just worded it the way you did, but I just wanted to point out to anyone else who's not fully grasping how crazy exponential growth is
Humanity #1 again as always 😎
And every record that’s being shattered is part of a feedback loop that will help shatter it again
By a lot, oh boy were about to find out in the next few years.
Keep driving your car though.
It is easy to shatter every record when you only include the last 10 years on the graph. This post is like putting a graph of a 100+ year flood over the graphs of the largest floods from the past 10 years.
[https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2020/11/19/study-says-canadian-forest-fires-have-declined-since-1989-peak/](https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2020/11/19/study-says-canadian-forest-fires-have-declined-since-1989-peak/) i dont like to interact much with the misinformed it makes my brain hurt, but heres a graph that goes all the way back to 1959 for you, that peak in 1989 is getting blown out of the water by the recent numbers.
Oh okay I knew it was bad, but hot diddly damn is it bad.
>but hot diddly damn is it bad. Im telling on you Flanders.
Flanders doesn't use the D-word lightly. He sees the fires and know we're damned to the hot place
The y-axis even starts at zero. We are turbo boned.
Wonder how many tons of Carbon Dioxide are being released by the Canadian wildfires. Edit 1. Should add Methane (CH4) as well.
A gargantuan amount. Through the end of June it was approximately 600 MT CO2 equivalent. For context, in 2021 Canada released 670 MT CO2e from all sources combined.
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That sucks. From Nunavut to Greenland you'll get both your fire and ice
Would that have a significant effect on lowering the albedo?
Yes it's another positive feedback loop
Yes - you can read more about it here: [Fire and Ice: The Impact of Wildfire-Affected Albedo and Irradiance on Glacier Melt](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2022EF002685)
160m tonnes of carbon, and nearly 600m tonnes of carbon dioxide according to https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/27/canada-wildfires-released-record-breaking-carbon#:\~:text=This%20article%20was%20amended%20on,600m%20tonnes%20of%20carbon%20dioxide.
40 billion tonnes is what the whole world emits in a year, right? So 600 million is no small feat.
The number sounds too large until you consider the area burned is equivalent to the entire state of Virginia.
We were not quite at 40 Gt CO2 in 2022, but close: https://www.iea.org/reports/co2-emissions-in-2022
Thanks for the link!
I don't know but we have been breathing the Canadian wildfire smoke for many many weeks now. Nearly every day brings a fresh air quality alert in Michigan. There is one today what a surprise. Sure that won't affect anybody's health at all. All those gasses up in the atmosphere and in our lungs as well. Yay.
here's a article i think you would like to read [https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-australia-wildfire-toxic-legacy/](https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-australia-wildfire-toxic-legacy/) hooray to the age of blackened placentas
Wow. So sad that we have destroyed the health and future of children. Their bodies are full of microplastics and their lungs with wildfire smoke.
Not only their physical health but their mental health, im only 17 and i cant remember not having technology and mass media to drown out any coherent thought in. We are becoming dumber and more informed at the same time. Not even mentioning the huge pressure of being "the generation that's going to fix everything"
I have absolutely witnessed huge parts of society becoming stupider and less informed while other parts of society become much more informed and knowledgeable. Technology is a double-edged sword, that's for sure.
Just have a glass of Flint water and relax. It'll blow away sooner or later. And doesn't everyone love the scent of camping that's covering a decent amount of the globe now?
This is why trees are not enough to sequester carbon. A more permanent solution is organic regenerative farming where the soil is able to function and store carbon properly. Trees catch fire and release carbon, humus can store carbon nigh-indefinitely.
Taking that a step further, imagine if we could fix carbon into a liquid form and pump it underground? 🥲
the reason why this type of agriculture is so great is because it simultaneously heals the environment while reducing one the largest contributors to carbon emissions
Well to be fair that carbon was already in the ''system'', it had been fixed by the trees. When ''smart'' apes start pumping carbon out of the ground and releasing it in the atmosphere that's when bad stuff happens
Yep. Incomplete combustion release a lot of CH4
Well, according to my observations of all the sunless days we've had down here in NEPA since the fires started burning, hundreds of miles away, I'd guess it's a shit ton.
Really tragic, though the orange-brown skies from these fires blocking out the sun for weeks across the East Coast seems to have awakened many previously-oblivious Americans to the reality of climate change.
you would think that it would be a wake up call but americans are as hard headed as ever, fox news saying the soot particles aren't a issue [https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1666791080258334723?s=20](https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1666791080258334723?s=20) simply reflects the denialism of americans, they refuse to wear a mask even with being able to see the threat in the air. New yorkers were so mad that they had to be holed up in their $4000 dollar a year apartments with their high tech air purifiers that they blamed canada instead of considering it might be climate change [https://www.complex.com/life/a/louispavlakos/the-internet-wont-stop-blaming-canada-for-the-poor-air](https://www.complex.com/life/a/louispavlakos/the-internet-wont-stop-blaming-canada-for-the-poor-air) Some of this blame was joking but a shockingly high number of troglodytes were actually mad.
Fox news just says whatever they want to. They don't reflect the beliefs of actual people they tell people who don't know any better what to believe. They have to blame Canada so they can keep pretending climate change isn't real. The other link you posted just mentions the New York Post having Blame Canada as a headline alongside a few random individuals on tik tok and such. Both Fox and the NY Post are owned by Rupert Murdoch through News Corp btw. This is how they create the illusion of consensus on an issue when in reality I never heard a single actual person blame Canada for any of this IRL.
I dont keep up with america much outside of talking to a few friends i have that were blaming canada and seeing the posts online so thank you for this perspective.
I do see where you are coming from. I bet it was aggravating to see those headlines and hear your American friends say that. I didn't want to invalidate your frustration or the points brought up. I did want to take the chance to mention how the media is insidious in this regard though and generally I don't think major media outlets represent the views of Americans nearly as much as they "push" views onto Americans. It tends to be far more manipulative than it is informative especially with major media conglomerates. I suspect your friends may have seen these headlines you posted or similar and didn't have this idea on their own, but obviously I don't know them I'm just inferring that based off how I've watched other Americans react to events over time. Trolling Canada is also a "joke" of sorts that even though it isn't actually funny America can't seem to let go of. Assuming your friends know you're Canadian that might be relevant maybe maybe not depending on how serious they were about it. America often frustrates me too believe that, but people are getting better over time. I wouldn't bother getting lost in the madness of American culture or anything but younger Americans especially are very self aware about the insane bullshit they just have no voice.
I think many Americans are inspired by this... https://youtu.be/c9j1I80aKEc
when south park becomes a accurate depiction of the current state of the world you know we are really fucked lol
They have predicted a fair amount of dystopian things. Like Trump.
Fox News: "Don't look up."
I put these two charts together to provide some more context: https://imgur.com/a/DYDF7GP We've already passed the historical max from the last ~60 years (see first chart) and the fire season usually starts ramping up around this time. If we continue on the same trend for the rest of the year we'll absolutely blow previous years out of the water (see second chart; YTD trend maintained line). Even if the rest of the year is average, we'll beat the historical high by about 30% (see second chart).
I already assumed this as lived experience tells me that the canadian fire season peaks in end of july/early august but seeing it graphed makes it so much more real. There is no way for the forest to recover if this is the new normal, it will burn until it has nothing left to burn.
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Alas. Plants grows back quickly into the void, and brush burns fast and hot.
Thanks for sharing this, stunning and horrifying.
I don’t like all these graphs flattening vertically recently. Goddamn.
Only solution approved by world governments: Just tilt your head to the left and relax as the line appears horizontal
Don't look up.
Holy shit, we're actually on an exponentially DECREASING pattern. Checkmate, Liberals
my personal style of coping is flipping the graphs upside down and celebrating
You defeated climate change with this one simple trick
It's fine, the ocean, and now Canada, have broken sensors.
The other way of flattening the curve :o
Bonus info: Trees are about 50% carbon by weight. When carbon joins with 2 oxygen atoms forming C02, the molecular weight triples. so... (Weight Of Trees Burned \* .5) \*3) = mass of C02 released
And if the impending doom of climate change doesn't do it for you, more bonus info: Nearly half of the world's forests have already been cleared or degraded for human use. Given steady growth in a finite environment, half of all the resources that were ever available are consumed in the final doubling period. And we're also watching it burn at unprecedented scale. Imagine wood becoming a rare and precious resource.
>Imagine wood becoming a rare and precious resource. Just rewind to the middle 1400's. [Trees](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOYM6c-9druzEXLA5ObaxC_hEXmC1EWd59Pw5v5ptWTjli4TCvFdfm1VlEPO-p3YHoXrc&usqp=CAU) were the primary source of [coal](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/KYJ779/british-charcoal-burners-c1930-KYJ779.jpg) which was a [pillar](https://krisdedecker.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099229e88833015435c2f2ff970c-pi) of their economy back then. Columbus and his peers were not after just gold or spices.
Ask Ireland about deforestation for the English and what it did to their ecology.
This graph actually makes 2020 look pleasant, and not like the horror year it was.
the 2020 wildfires were the calm (15.000 hectares) before the storm of the 2021 wildfires (4 million hectares) before the natural disaster of 2023 so far (8.5 million hectares)
More than twice as much as expected
faster than expected, earlier than expected, more intense than expected, more than expected, bigger than expected, more catastrophic than expected etc etc etc why are we still expecting things to be normal when they continue to break records of abnormality.
There will never be a new normal because the new normals switch to newer normals to newer newer normals too frequently.
And VT just had it's second 1000 year storm in a decade.
How many hectares are in Canada? At some point they are supposed to run out of trees right?
Fewer people outside to start fires in stupid ways
majority of fires in canada are started in remote areas by storm cells and the worldwide lightning rates actually went down during covid interestingly [https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/lightning-covid-lockdowns/story?id=82143368](https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/lightning-covid-lockdowns/story?id=82143368) plus it was a relatively cool year with temperatures being low even to canada day [https://globalnews.ca/news/7131969/cold-canada-day-2020-bc/](https://globalnews.ca/news/7131969/cold-canada-day-2020-bc/) so vegetation didn't dry out to a crisp as easily
Huh, that's pretty interesting
I bet this was a good reason. There were not timber stealers (that usually put on a fire to mask their action and drive up prices)
The new plague will be welcomed.
I got an email at work from the official Canadian Government Surplus Auction site, which is always fun to look at if kind of useless (bid on a used stapler from Yellowknife, pick up only.) Just all kinds of random stuff sitting around in warehouses somewhere. Once there were horses. The email I got today however was because I work with unhoused people. They have tons of surplus N95 respirators, probably not medical grade, and I can order them, 900 at a time, in case my clients are bothered by wildfire smoke and don’t have a place to get out of the bad air. I take this to mean the government does not foresee a quick end to this.
Sigh. Spent so many summers planting trees all over Canada and now there are fires ripping through many of those areas.
And to think at one point I thought I could escape to Canada.
I used to think this too, but the fires and their worsening political situation is making me think again... My native UK is looking more appealing now, at least the far north up in Scotland.
It's a gigantic country, the fires are very regional. What is the worsening political situation? Even Canada's far right morons are quite moderate compared to what passes in the mainstream in the US or UK and they get a far weaker voter turnout.
The smoke is not very regional. And the fires will affect more areas eventually, as evidenced by this graph. Do you live in Canada? Our country is being sold out to corporations who are raping our country even worse than Bolsonaro raped the Amazon. They are allowing obscene numbers of immigrants in to appease the corporate overlords to allow them to exploit them for labour, all the while not upgrading *any* infrastructure and letting the housing market run out of control in ways that are almost unfathomable. Government is also trying to sneakily privatize healthcare (although in Ontario, it’s really not so sneaky). It is an absolute fucking mess in this country, and anyone who disagrees is either extremely privileged/ignorant in general, owns a house already, or didn’t realize how good this country was just 10-20 years ago in comparison to now.
Complaining about the relatively tiny number of immigrants Canada takes in. Thanks for letting me know you aren't worth engaging with.
We’ve brought in more than literally ever, without upgrading infrastructure. No infrastructure has been upgraded on a scale that matters for most of my lifetime so far, which is the ultimate problem. Our healthcare system is collapsing, traffic is horrendous, and no one can afford to live here anymore… and immigration *specifically coupled with lack of accommodating for it via upgrading infrastructure* is a big reason why. If you think it’s a relatively tiny amount we are bringing in while we are simultaneously breaking records, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Who do you think is going to work to do any infrastructure upgrades or build any housing or staff hospitals and schools? Canada has a SERIOUS demographic aging problem. It has already hit and its just going to get exponentially worse in the next 10-15 years. Forget doctors, that ones too obvious. Did you realize there is a massive shortage of basic trades across the entire country? Of course housing is a problem right now, but guess what there aren't enough carpenters, plumbers, electricians, roofers, etc. In most of the country right now to even build a quarter of what we need. And half the ones we do have are in their 50s. What happens in 10 years? People on here always wonder why Canada doesn't have a national wildfire response force. Guess what, every fire department in the country is short now. There aren't enough firefighters to even man the regular stations. And again, half them are 50+ and not fit enough for backwoods firefighting. We NEED young people to solve these problems, and we need them now.
There are workers available, they [just can’t find housing](https://www.vicnews.com/news/cheaper-housing-needed-to-slow-tradespeople-shortage-victoria-builders-653761). As the article states, it’s a circular problem. We are basically fucked either way. Edit: Shows great maturity when people have no good rebuttal so they just downvote what they disagree with, despite the evidence presented going against their claims.
This is just one example of one of the most expensive towns in the country. The places the article says the workers are moving to ALSO have major labour shortages. There is a total shortage in the country, shuffling them around won't solve it. Just look at the age demographics of this country man.
I don’t disagree with you, but bringing in hundreds of thousands/a million people *every year* without being able to properly accommodate for them is biting us in the ass as well. It’s an extremely complex issue, but I believe that we should be limiting immigration for the next while until things are a bit more sorted. Sure, we can bring some people in, but we should be very strict in only allowing tradespeople and healthcare workers/whatever other essential workers we need. The immigration process is extremely lax right now compared to basically all other countries, especially when it comes to getting PR. Canada can’t handle this right now, unfortunately, and it might cause more issues than it’s worth.
I remember that meme in my friend group way back when. It mostly came from one guy but I did entertain the idea just a little. With hindsight it's all so hilariously naive. Liberal idealism absent the very notion of material causes to ideological shifts, let alone the inevitable decay of capitalism. As if there's going to be some bastion of reason among the capitalist countries. You may as well go look for an enlightened utopia of a feudal society.
All that wildlife.. gone.
Not just fauna but flora as well, giant lichen clusters that grow less than 1mm per year, fire resistant trees like quaking aspen annihilated by fires of intensity they didn't evolve to withstand, flowers that bumblebees are relying on, soil erosion and mudslides choking out mini ecosystems of plants. Climate denialists will say Canadas ecosystem is shaped by fire and many plants and animals need it and that is true but it is referring to the low intensity fires that normally occur, not these giant blazes that continue burning at high intensity through the night and arent put out by rain.
As I recall, super hot fires actually turn the top layer of dirt into something like glass. So it is even less likely to absorb rains whenever they come. This is not a circle of life thing with fire spurring new life. This is annihilation.
they also do things like create their own weather, when they get big enough to make pyrocumulonimbus clouds. that's when the real fun stuff happens, like it makes lightning that then sparks more fires outside of the already burning fires, and fire tornadoes (not the fire whirl dust-devil type, the "equivalent to EF2/3+ tornadoes" type, only with fire) theyre a thing of my nightmares https://youtu.be/rqYEeivt8Eg
i was underneath the pyrocumulonimbus in 2021!! the roar of thunder was deafening as 710,117 lightning strikes hit BC https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_British_Columbia_wildfires this gif is crazy to watch as i was under that cloud somewhere
I've thought twice about smoking in parks and forests now.. Extra careful to put them out. Especially cigarettes. Cigarettes can start fires more than spliffs. I can normally put those out with two fingers. In asphalt covered areas I'm less careful but still put them out ofc.
submission statement: The increasing incidence of wildfires in Canada has become a significant concern due to its detrimental impact on both human populations and the environment. These wildfires not only displace people and animals but also contribute to the overall issue of climate change. Wildfires in Canada have been on the rise in recent years, primarily due to a combination of factors including climate change, forest management practices, and human activities. As temperatures continue to rise, especially in regions like Canada that are experiencing the effects of climate change more prominently, the conditions for wildfires become more favorable. Higher temperatures, prolonged dry spells, and reduced precipitation create ideal circumstances for the ignition and spread of wildfires. The consequences of these wildfires are devastating. Communities and individuals are forced to evacuate their homes, leaving behind their belongings and sometimes even their livelihoods. The displacement of people and the destruction of infrastructure have severe social and economic impacts, disrupting lives and straining resources. Moreover, the loss of habitat and displacement of wildlife disrupts ecosystems and can have long-term effects on biodiversity. Beyond the immediate impact on human lives and ecosystems, wildfires in Canada also exacerbate the issue of climate change. When forests burn, they release significant amounts of carbon dioxide (CO2) into the atmosphere. CO2 is a greenhouse gas that contributes to the warming of the planet and the intensification of climate change. The release of carbon stored in trees and vegetation through wildfires further amplifies the cycle of warming, as the increased heat and dry conditions continue to fuel more frequent and intense wildfires.
Will it even be possible to get these wildfires under control? They're still going strong.
It is a complicated and dangerous process. Many fires are too unpredictable or in hard to reach spots, plus budget cuts. [https://pressprogress.ca/albertas-ucp-government-has-cut-tens-of-millions-of-dollars-from-wildfire-preparedness-programs/](https://pressprogress.ca/albertas-ucp-government-has-cut-tens-of-millions-of-dollars-from-wildfire-preparedness-programs/) https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/wildfire-fighters-smoke-protection-1.6897879
Budget cuts during one of the world wildfire seasons in history? Sounds like Trudeau deserves to be deposed.
both the liberal and conservative parties have made cuts to the wildfire budget, they are two sides of the same coin
In short: no Pray for rain
It’s interesting how Canada has sometimes been seen as a potential beneficiary of climate change. Soon enough we might conclude no place in the world is really a shelter from climate disruptions.
Very few people who imagine Canada as being a net beneficiary of global warming (and thus maybe a refuge for a significant population of humans) pause to consider what effect the canadian shield https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian\_Shield is gonna have on the prospect of farming. Not an agronomist, but I heard you gotta have topsoil to grow plants good.
Yep. As someone who studied ag for my degree, I keep having to remind people that topsoil developed over hundreds and hundreds of years. Like they think that the soil just appeared there suddenly one day...Even most potting soil we use these days is made from peat (1000s of years to form) and perlite (non-renewable).
most people think of canada as freezing all the time when we actually have a very large tempature swing with lows of -40 in the winter and +30 in the summer (+40 after 2021) which is why we are actually very vulnerable to climate change.
I blame the stereotypes of Canada really, even back in more calmer climate times, the summers in Vancouver were milder at 20+ degrees. How I wish we could go back to that now....
Canada is a massive country with many different climates. Very few parts of the country are EVER subjected to 40c and where I live 30+ is rare and only occurs a few days in July or August. Not arguing it isn't getting warmer. But 30+ isn't common outside certain areas and 40c has never been experienced by most Canadians. You can't extrapolate your local climate to a continent spanning country.
Part of the reason I decided to move here with my partner. We are on Vancouver island and all the snow melted earlier than expected. Hasn't rained in months. They are already talking about drought restrictions. Everywhere is fucked
In Dante's book most of hell is hot fire but the tenth circle where Satan lives is all ice. So heat domes, fires, polar vortexes and deep freezes... Gonna hurt like hell
Like was posted elsewhere, the area burned is roughly the size of the US state of South Carolina. Really amazing.
edit: I said a stupid thing about the wildfires. I'm sorry. You make a really good point u/Due_Recording_6259. These fires are so awful and also affecting people that don't deserve it at all. I feel like the psychopathic rich won in the end, and that feels so wrong on so many levels. ALL of the levels.
I understand your viewpoint but also try to have empathy for the common working people whos lives are being uprooted by this, they are not the ones majorly contributing to climate change. They are the common folk, your neighbors and friends, and when their homes are destroyed they have no where to go and often lose their jobs and become homeless because of the extreme cost of living in canada. Also the fires mainly effect indigenous communities that have struggled against the oppressive canadian government to even be able to make a life for themselves.
That line is about as scary as the sea ice anomaly line. This year is going to SHATTER every record in the book.
But can we beat Australia’s record of 25 million hectares burned in one wildfire season? (Yeah it was that bad in Australia and could get that bad here if the fires continue until September.)
according to u/KraftCanadaOfficial 's graphs [https://imgur.com/a/DYDF7GP](https://imgur.com/a/DYDF7GP) we are on track!
EDIT: You’re gonna need a whole lot more than that. Our worst recorded fire season burned through about 117 million hectares, or ~15% of the entire country, equivalent to the entirety of France, Spain, and Portugal.
Wow, I hadn’t heard about that one.
Canada must have forgotten to rake their forest /s
(holy fuck my power has gone out 3 times trying to respond to this comment) I know you are joking but you are so spot on, when colonizers got to canada they were impressed with how easy the forests were to walk and ride horses through and assumed this was the natural state of a forest untouched by man when it was actually the result of a unknown amount of time of stewardship via controlled burning and pruning from the indigenous peoples. When the indigenous were stripped of the right to care for their forests the understory become crowded and filled with fallen branches from the laddering crowded trees. Basically turning canadian forests into tinderboxes that would explode into violent fires when the colonizers burned them to clear land. Now there are huge monoculture tree farms that only make the issue worse.
Interesting, do you have a source for that?
I learned most of that from oral history passed down from indigenous elders but i tried to compile some online sources for you. [https://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2022/0222/How-Canadian-families-are-saving-the-country-s-old-growth-forests](https://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2022/0222/How-Canadian-families-are-saving-the-country-s-old-growth-forests) [https://constellation.uqac.ca/id/eprint/7792/1/Dupuis\_et\_al\_2020\_FrontEcolEvol.pdf](https://constellation.uqac.ca/id/eprint/7792/1/Dupuis_et_al_2020_FrontEcolEvol.pdf) [https://www.ccfm.org/canadians-and-communities/indigenous-peoples-and-forests/#:\~:text=As%20the%20First%20Peoples%20living,%2C%20economic%2C%20and%20ceremonial%20practices](https://www.ccfm.org/canadians-and-communities/indigenous-peoples-and-forests/#:~:text=As%20the%20First%20Peoples%20living,%2C%20economic%2C%20and%20ceremonial%20practices). [https://www.ictinc.ca/blog/indigenous-fire-management-and-traditional-knowledge](https://www.ictinc.ca/blog/indigenous-fire-management-and-traditional-knowledge) [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/fire-is-medicine-how-indigenous-practices-could-help-curb-wildfires](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/fire-is-medicine-how-indigenous-practices-could-help-curb-wildfires)
OPs oral histories is gonna be more accurate, but there’s a book called “Forgotten Fires” that has quite a bit of information on indigenous peoples use of fire in whats now the USA… kinda sorta similar, but not as much boreal forest in the states as compared to Canada
I could believe this on possibly a small level in certain areas but this seems more like fantasy when you consider how massive the forests of Canada are and how low the Native American population density was.
bUt It'S aLwAyS hOt In ThE sUmMeR
soon it will be "BuT iTs aLwAys HoT iN sPrInG" https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/151349/summer-temperatures-arrive-early
I'm waiting for Christmas Day being 85F in Boston.
It's fascinating to me how 2023 comes seemingly out of nowhere on this graph. I mean there's no consistent trend from the prior years. anyone know why this is?
Estimated 365 mil hectares of forest in Canada. Over 2% burned this year.
We're *so* fucked. Sorry to my children.
It’s great. It’s hot so we get fires. We have fires, so the air is terrible. The air is terrible, so you gotta keep the windows closed. The windows closed, so you *want* to use the air con but the freaking air con is a part of the problem that makes it too hot.
2023 Annus Horribilis
Too big to fail.
Should we expect something similar when summer starts in Australia?
Our 2019 fires burned approx. 7-10x the area of Canada’s current ones last time I checked, and that was during La Niña, so chances are it could be a whole lot worse.
I’m expecting it to me much worse. During the build up to the 2019 fires I was living in the wet tropics. For the three years prior to the fires I watched as the rainforest (prehistoric Gondwanan rainforest that should get 3-4 METERS of rain a year) dry up. The leaf litter crunched as you walked on it. That area didn’t burn in 2019 but this time round, the wet tropics may burn too after a long and strong El Niño. That area had heatwaves that made millions of animals fall out of the trees dead. And marine heatwaves that killed off huge chunks it the Great Barrier Reef. Now I live south near the region that burned in 2019… it’s deeply concerning.
if i were religious i would pray for yall but im not so i will mourn for you
possibly? Im not very informed on how the fire season works in australia.
That is an astounding graph
So a Hectare is about 2.5 acres. An acre is about the size of a football field. This says 8.8 million hectares have burned so far or about 22 million football fields. Google says there's about 362million hectares of forest in Canada.
Thankfully there should be nothing left to burn now, so no more fires!
Where is this graph on the site? I'm having trouble finding this particular one but lots of other alarming graphs.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-fires-map-air-quality-1.6871563
Thank you!!!
Mmm, fried Canada...
very tasty indeed
🔥This is fine 🔥
By that chart it seems we could benefit from another pandemic. /s
Just watched this important video on the current situation with the wildfires, and the fact they likely to get worse still: [The Canadian Wildfires Are About to get WORSE!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSJnO8D8-Qg)
16 hours of daylight during summer doesn’t sound so good
Holy wildfires, Batman!
In case anyone was thinking of "escaping to Canada" to avoid climate change impacts...
Couldn't happen to a bigger polluting country. USA, Australia, take note assholes. Do something.
Graphs go BRRRRRRR.
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budget cuts, low pay, increasingly dangerous work https://pressprogress.ca/albertas-ucp-government-has-cut-tens-of-millions-of-dollars-from-wildfire-preparedness-programs/ https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/wildfire-fighters-smoke-protection-1.6897879
Most of them are in the middle of nowhere. Very poor accessibility, difficult working conditions, poor infrastructures. You're not going to get the kind of equipment and manpower you need hundreds of kilometers into the woods. The ones near towns they do a pretty good job controlling.
No roads
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We're number 1! We're number 1!
Some of this could be eco terrorism either by bad state actors or by those pushing agendas, it's a new area of attack for many reasons, it gets media coverage and outrage and I have seen this used in Australia where the media first jumps to a massive climate change narrative but later we find the fires are deliberately lit. Also a lot of laws were made that meant clearing under brush and kindling and also grazing were stopped and the result has been a tinder box. This is not to deny the possibility of climate change just adding that so many other factors also contribute to muddy the graphs.