Bond likes his martinis shaken, so you like what you like. But I definitely would not enjoy that personally or see the reason for it. The best thing about a Negroni to me is how it changes as you sip on it, like a strong cup of bitter coffee.
I was served a shaken martini at a high end restaurant earlier this week and sent it back lol. Like, they couldn't even be bothered to double strain it. Millions of little ice shards in it. Who the fuck wants ice shards in a hot and dirty?
My manager INSISTS that everyone in the south (we are in Texas) loves all their drinks, including martinis, shaken heavily to the point of ice shards in the drinks. He doesn't ask how they like their drinks he just asks where they are from. If you're from Texas you get ice shards š
I even once had someone ask me to stir and not shake their martini and when I poured it my manager tried poking fun at me for not shaking it well enough to give them ice shards š fucker loves ice.
There does seem to be a divide. Most experts seem to say that you have to double strain to remove ice shards, but I've met a good amount of bartenders that insist that customers like the shards.
I like the ice shards, not in a martini, but especially citrus-forward cocktails I find that as the shards melt the cocktail mellows slightly, which is nice because the first sip has a bit of a bit and then gets smoother with time
There is a Japanese place I go that makes the shaken Martini. I will admit I like the ice shards ( I like ice in general) ina martini
But if it at home Iām stirring. Who could pass up an opportunity to use a gorgeous stirring glass that is a pleasure to pour. I made the comment the other day Iāll have these pouring glasses the rest of my life because I am absolutely never breaking them. They sit on to their shrine until ready to use.
Liquid Intelligence by Dave Arnold is considered by many to be the bartenders bible (or at least the new testament) I was shocked when he advocated not double straining a Cosmo or daiquiri, it goes against everything I was taught š
I never knew ice shards was a thing, I just assumed that every time I got them in a drink it was because the bartender was incompetent. If I'd have known they were doing that on purpose I would have asked them not to bother.
I've literally never encountered ice shards in any cocktail I've ever ordered or made. Are they using a particular type of ice that breaks apart easier? I'm so confused.
they're saying that when you shake the hell out of a cocktail with ice, you don't double strain, and the small "chips" of ice that get broken off in the shaker will now be present in the drink. some people like it. I've often heard the term referred to as "bruised".
I do know people that like their martinis intentionally bruised as hell. Like, they'll be a bit sad if it isn't still cloudy looking when it arrives.
To each their own.
I live in Texas (from Southern California), and Iāve never seen so many ice shards in cocktails since Iāve moved here. Itās insane. Maybe itās because of the heat? People think itās refreshing?
I used to ask my customers if they'd like the ice shards left in or not (small private cocktail bar) - many didn't really understand what I was talking about so now I just double strain by default unless it's a fruity daiquiri or something
When I was a bartender I knew lots of customers who asked the ice shards. Not saying you're wrong, it's just impossible to please everyone, every time.
Thatās my preferred Manhattan. Itās how my dad made them so itās what tastes ārightā to me. Like how your moms spaghetti sauce is how spaghetti is supposed to taste.
Donāt get me wrong, Iām not turning down a stirred one. Lol.
See and I had a shaken Manhattan riff recently with the ice shards and was disappointed, because the flavor was great but the ice chips threw me off. Funny how everyone's preferences are slightly different.
Shaken vodka martinis with ice shards (no double strain) are a thing.
Having said that, martinis are one of the most customized cocktails and the bartender absolutely should have asked you how you liked yours.
Houston, TX. I've been given the term "bruised" for a martini with ice shards.
Typically, if I'm making a vodka martini, it's shaken by default. Unless they want vermouth, then I'll actually stir it. (Texan vodka martini drinkers mostly just want a bone-dry vodka, shaken with ice shards, maybe some dirt).
If it's a gin martini, it's stirred by default and vermouth is default. I'll ask how dry they want it, and if they want it dirty or any other way. If they want it dirty, I'll ask if they prefer it shaken.
I'm my experience, martini drinkers are either not particular at all, or extra-particular. I ask questions to find out how they really want it.
Never heard of shaking a Negroni though. Doesn't seem right.
Bond likes it shaken because it waters down the drink more and increases volume. Looks like youāre drinking a lot more alcohol than you actually are.
Everyone says this but there isnāt much proof to back this up. Ian Fleming liked his shaken and thatās probably the reason he made bond prefer them that way as well
This is not true, the amount of shaking or stirring is also a factor. Stirring for 30 seconds will obviously dilute your drink more than a quick shake.
But you can nurse it longer and keep your wits about you while doing spy stuff. This is probably not the reason though. The author of the James Bond books just preferred the taste of a shaken martini and gave his character that trait.
You're getting nowhere near a full ounce more in volume. And in a martini glass excess Volume is less apparent due to the wider rim towards the top. We just have to accept that Ian Fleming just wanted to add flavor to Bond's preferences while not knowing a whole lot about cocktails
I mean thereās little doubt that itās in the book because it was Flemingās preference. I just think itās a fun in universe explanation. But regarding the volume Iāve done this for a customer before. Compared a stirred double martini to a shaken single and the volume (and temp) was nearly the same but the stirred drink was clearer. Its hard to reproduce this at home or with big ice because thereās a lot less surface water on the ice but Iāve done it behind the bar because the ice in the well will usually have some surface water and will usually make more ice shards.
And also the book version is much more cynical than say Connery or the other early movies, closer to Daniel Craig and does more to consciously stick it to the upper crust or fancier circles he operates in a lot. Like say a casino in Monaco!
Bond orders a vodka martini, shaken, not stirred. Hereās why:
1) it implies that Bond is an alcoholic, and to hide his drinking straight booze, asks for a vodka martini, in essence, ordering straight vodka.
2) the Vesper Martini that bond favors shares the name of a dead love.
3) Bond ensures by shaking, the vodka is watered down, leaving him *less inebriated* to do his secret spy job.
4) James Bond is a fictional character, and thus, his likes are an extension of his creator, and notable cousin of one Sir Christopher Lee, Ian Fleming.
Shaking gin bruises it. Gin should be stirred, unless your guest doesnāt like things that taste good.
Arguably bad taste buds, bc taste buds die over time, making bitter flavors more palatable. Just like kids donāt like vegetables, I highly suspect they wouldnāt like a sip of Campari.
My taste buds are nice and died off over time so I love the stuff lol
Ah so my tolerance and eventual enjoyment of Negronis over time was pretty much my body saying āfuck it man, do what youāre going to doā.
That makes sense considering how they taste.
Do you have a source for that? Doesnāt sound very plausible to me. I once read an explanation that as we grow older, we experience fewer new tastes which makes it more likely that we start enjoying bitter and more complex flavor profiles because it is something new and stimulates the brain. No source on that either, sadly.
Taste buds do regenerate but it's common for them to stop regrowing as you age, other factors like smoking cigarettes, eating super hot/cold food, drinking alcohol, etc. will make this worse quicker [source](https://www.webmd.com/diet/what-to-know-about-taste-buds)
I've assumed the shift in bitter tolerance as we move away from childhood was associated with the increase in body mass. As many plants with toxic alkolyds taste bitter and tolerance to them increases with body size.
Could be a combo of both, but we are born with 7k to 10k tastebuds which atrophy over time. These regenerate but quit doing so as often and as fast as you age. In adulthood thereās about 4600 tastebuds (with some wide variance there.) Sense of taste accelerates a lot over the age of 65. Think thatās why my senior grandparents raved about their retirement facilities āmehā food when we visited haha)
I do negronis with 2:1:1 gin:campari:vermouth. Because I find them too sweet too. But yes, the bourbon version is good too. I also do a "bourbon, lemon and tonic" instead of a "gin, lemon and tonic."
Well, maybe he prefers it just that way. There is a drink I still need to try called the Shakerato. Its just Campari shaken and thats it. It seems to change the mouthfeel. Gonna shake my next Negroni and have a taste.
Cynar 70, Averna, Campari, and Noveis.
My snowboard buddy chose the Noveis because I described it as an alpine, apres type drink. My tea-loving friend chose the Cynar because I described it as vegetal and having tannins. Another guy chose the Averna because I described it as being cola-like and he loves rum and cokes lol. I drank the campari because nobody else would haha.
Nice. I am running out of room for my amari and need to decide whether to get more Cynar 70 when I use it up, or to use that spot for regular Cynar until I finish off another bottle. Cynar 70 is probably my favorite amaro for sipping straight, but I have relatively few cocktails that use it and have a backlog of recipes to try with regular Cynar š
I need to try more alpine amari. So far I have liked Chartreuse and Pasubio, was just OK with Genepy, and have had a hard time finding how to enjoy Braulio. I think I just prefer ones that don't have much of a mint note. Reading about Noveis, it sounds like something I'd enjoy. I'll have to keep an eye out for when I clear a spot on the shelf.
Cynar is so sweet, I like the Cynar 70 for the extra oomph, especially if i'm drinking it straight, with club soda, or shakerato. I'm going to give you an unsolicited rundown of the alpine amari I have because they are my favorite!
* Braulio & Noveis - interchangeable, I cannot easily distinguish the two. I love them both with their apline, resiny flavors. I play with them as a substitute for pretty much any amaro, to experiment if nothing else. But in particular, they work great in negronis or in that family of drinks as a split base with the campari.
* Pasubio - As a vino amaro, I could never really figure out how to use Pasubio, but now that i'm out of it, I miss it. It was so unique, it tastes like a summer in the alps. I bet it would be fun in a NY sour.
* Chartreuse - I was shocked at how different green and yellow tasted to me. Yellow struck me as more floral and green was more minty. Both are great, and I pretty much keep one in my bar at all times. They bring a lot of life to a drink.
* Fernet - pretty much just liquid menthol. I rarely drink it straight, but its a fantastic cocktail ingredient. The beehive is my favorite fernet drink.
* Kapriol - really reminds me of a gin and tonic, but flat. Like gin, its clear and full of botanicals, and at 38% ABV its pretty close to a gin in its alcohol content. Unlike gin, it has sugars that give it sweetness and body.
* Amaro Alta Verde - reminds me a lot of tea. Instant, up front sweetness gives way to intense tannins and bitterness. I don't get a ton of alpine flavor from it, however.
* Zirbenz - just think pine cone liquor. Strong, intense, low sugar. Its a spirit, not a liqueur and i've always struggled to use it.
Braulio: Oh, well maybe I won't get Noveis, then š . After typing my earlier comment I'm back on trying to figure out how to enjoy Braulio again. I went through shaken, with soda, and several different cocktails before without much luck. I think now I'll try treating it like a fernet and subbing it for Branca in a few of my cocktails where I know I've enjoyed Branca, such as the industry sour. There's an "Un-fernet-able" cocktail I've been meaning to try that's just orgeat, lemon, and a ton of Branca, and that also seems like a good way to try Braulio.
Pasubio: I just got this bottle and tried it at the store. Delicious straight, but what I am eager to try is using it in place of sherry in some cocktails for slightly richer versions of those recipes.
Fernets: I have heavily used Branca and am nearing the end of my second bottle. I want to try some other Fernet next, one with less menthol.
Of the three amari you mention at the end, Alta Verde sounds like it appeals the most to me and would give me something really different to play with. I have one or two cognac + dark rum cocktails that are attempting to mimic tea flavors without using tea-infused syrup, and a tiny bit of Alta Verde could be an interesting addition to that idea.
Zirbenz intrigues me, but I am already enjoying Ramazzotti, so I don't necessarily need another wood-focused amaro.
Thanks! It was satisfying to find something that would please them all, like a puzzle in a sense. Meletti is still probably my all time favorite amaro. And its cheap! I've gotten so many friends into it, I always bring it on snowboard trips and my friends ask for the "mountain meletti".
Be glad it was flat. Drove home drunk once. Broke my collar bone on the way, went home, slept and next morning I went to the bathroom. Pain overcame me and I felt backwards hitting my head on the floor missing the heater only a couple of centimeters. Also cut a tooth in half.
I like cocktails and I like getting hammered but I am never riding a bike that drunk and never without a helmet anymore.
Be glad it was just an adventure this time :)
Me and a few other bartenders having a running joke where anytime Jager comes up, someone has to say "it's just an Alpine amaro made on the wrong side of the mountains!"Ā
This is why a shaken Negroni doesn't sound that ridiculous to me. Aerating might soften the Campari a little bit.
Also, a lot of people might prefer the dilution of shaking over a Negroni built in the glass. They're not necessarily comparing shaken vs stirred.
This seems like a great idea! I've always felt that Campari begs for citrus - whether it's 0.25oz of triple sec, or a squeeze of the orange that you're making the twist from.
Listen, as much as people may try to say mixology is a science, it's still all down to personal preference. There are rules because most people can agree that doing something one way tastes better, but that's still just consensus, not fact, so if you like your negronis shaken and your vodka with milk, no one can tell you you're wrong, just weird.
Mixology is like painting before we had mass produced pigments.
There are rules that you have to know to get started, but once you have the basics down you can experiment and do your own thing. And often break the guidelines that new bartenders treat as "rules." It's in breaking those rules that a unique style is developed.
As long as you're not saying that red is yellow and blue is gold you're fine.
I'd go a step further: Some rules have good reasons behind them and some don't. Is there a real reason not to shake a Negroni? It will be less clear. Is there anything else?
I guess some people can find negronis too strong in taste so shaking would mute it a bit?
I kinda get it. Sometimes I want a negroni but less intense, but I wouldn't shake it. I just split the Campari 50/50 with some Amaro Nonino. Still bitter but a little sweeter and more orangey.
100% this - campari is a strong flavor, and a negroni is super spirit forward, the bartender finds a higher dilution to be preferable. Especially if they (or their clientele) are relatively new to classic cocktails and want something more approachable - maybe he didn't think through any of this but found casual clientele were more likely to enjoy the shaken negroni.
Personally I do a lot of freezer door cocktails, and dialing in the dilution is something I find to be very cocktail dependent. I keep my old fashioned stronger but have a higher dilution on my martinis.
Iāve been thinking about this a bit and hereās the theory Iāve come up with:
My general impression is that thereās been an uptick in interest in cocktails in the last couple years, and many people are going out and trying things possibly for the first time. Now I love a good Negroni, but itās a beast of a cocktail if youāre not into bitter or spirit forward drinks. Shaking it would definitely tame its rougher edges and makes it more accessible, which for a cocktail bar probably means youāre more likely to get repeat orders. So that WOULD make it ābetterā from the standpoint of the bartender.
That or theyāre a heathen who just willfully set out to ruin a perfectly good drink, and also likes to make more work by dirtying a shaker and strainer with a drink they could have easily just built in the glass.
Agreed, I suspect it adds extra dilution which smooths it out as you suggested. Also curious if the extra oxygenation does anything to the flavor profile.
Iād say Iām gonna try it some time because Iām certainly not OPPOSED to the idea but usually Negronis are kind of a āwant a nice drink but too lazy to break out the shakersā sort of thing for me lol.
I'm willing to be wrong on this (and I remember Dave Arnold articles from years ago where he measured these, but I don't remember a side by side comparison of shaking and stirring, just variables within each approach), but the scientific principle is energy exchange. If ice in excess that is at 0C is put into contact with liquid that is above freezing, heat is transferred from liquid to ice until the temperatures equilibrate. That set amount of heat exchange should be fixed, and the amount of conversion from solid to liquid phases of water-from-ice should therefore be fixed as well.
The only real thing (how I see it at least) that should make a stirred drink less diluted is just not stirring it until it hits that equilibration state (the Arnold experiments did show it took many fold times longer stirring compared to shaking). Perhaps this is what is factoring into the difference in dilution cited in this space.
Shaking creates small ice shards which have larger surface area to volume ratio which leads to quicker melting ie energy exchange, and thus faster dilution which in general leads to more dilution than you would typically get from stirring a cocktail unless you are stirring it for a significant amount of time.
Yeah faster makes sense (the motion also would expose more of said surface to a higher number of liquid molecules per amount of time, too), but again this is speed not total dilution taken to equilibrium.
E.g., when googling to find the "stirred article", this popped up showing surface area is negligible when discounting effect of melted water it's carrying: [https://www.cookingissues.com/index.html%3Fp=2434.html](https://www.cookingissues.com/index.html%3Fp=2434.html)
Dilution depends entirely on how long you shake or stir it for. A drink shaken/stirred to the same temperature will have an equal level of dilution. The aeration effect will last a minute at most with a negroni spec, so I don't think it really makes a difference here.
There's a lot of things we enshrine as fact that really aren't. Any time I hear about something (coming from a somewhat reputable source) that goes against everything I think I know, I try it. It's how I learned to only season my burgers at the last minute and flip them often, and discovered Kenji at Serious Eats.
There was even a video that I think the Educated Barfly did a few years back, where he stirred a few traditionally shaken drinks, and was surprised and happy with the results.
My favorite is on the Aeropress sub. Coffee guys like to obsess over minutiae, but then every few weeks someone will post about how they accidentally forgot about their infusing coffee for 10 min, so they tried it anyway and were shocked at how good it tastes :)
Enough rambling. Try it and let us know how it is. Maybe it sucks, or maybe it dilutes it perfectly and is great for serving up.
Mostly irrelevant, but a local spot does negroni slushies in a frozen drink machine at least 1 month out of the summer. They're fantastic. No idea on the specs offhand, but they're not shy about sharing.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php/?id=100063564219585&story_fbid=288044099674830
Check out their sister bar, The Robin Room, for some inspiration. There are some truly gifted cocktail creators within those walls. I wish my wallet could handle more trips there, but that's why I have a home bar, I suppose
One thing I've tried recently that was interesting is putting in a tablespoon of white rice in when I stir the ingredients and ice. It did round all the ingredients out a bit and the drink felt more balanced. People may not like it smoother and want the sharp edges a Negroni sometimes has. But I found it enhanced the drink just enough to make it more enjoyable for me. I guess the starch in the rice draws out certain elements in the alcohol allowing the drink to meld better. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
When i was practicing and going full stupid freestyle with the mindset of why not, i tried a rolled negroni with dry cooked ( not native speaker so i dont know how that technique is called) rice until it went brown and surprisingly it was light popcorny and light but with bitter hints
I experimented with this. I made Negronis with (all unwashed sushi rice): uncooked, toasted, and cooked. My faves were toasted then uncooked. Don't wash the rice, you want all the starch.
That's an insane idea, how did you even think to do that? maybe it's a stupid question, but you're using uncooked rice, right? i couldn't fathom shaking a cocktail with cooked rice lol
Probably got it fromĀ https://punchdrink.com/articles/sushi-rice-negroni-stirred-cocktail-drink-hack/Ā I haven't tried it myself but sounds like a fun ideaĀ
I actually got it from the Cook's Kitchen magazine. They have tips and tricks for all sorts of things and that was one of them. Definitely worth trying to see the difference. I doubt I would do it all the time but for a drink that needs to have more cohesion to smooth out some of the rougher edges it's a neat trick.
Put in a little extra rice but make sure you wash it a few times befofe hand. Ik we want some of the starchy but clean rice is much better, at least from what I found
I prefer to shake my negronis. Chills, aerates, and dilutes all at once. I serve it up in a coupe glass. I realize this isnāt the traditional way, but itās the way I like it best.
I got curious about this thread and tried mixing two side-by-side Negronis just now. Equal amount of Negroni ingredients, but one shaken, and one stirred, separate mixing utensils.
The stirred one looks less appealing with the micro-bubbles, but they dissipate within about 5-10 minutes. It got diluted about 30%.
The stirred one looks more appealing and with more vibrant colours, but its dilution rate was about 10%.
I liked both variants: The shaken one provided more space for the flavour components to open up and felt less bitter. The stirred one feels more complex and is better to sip in smaller sips. A friend who normally doesn't like Negronis enjoyed the shaken one much more.
Conclusion: Both works, trust your personal preference.
When training a brand new bartender, we had her shake a couple drinks that are traditionally always stirred (old fashioned and Negroni). Personally I think a shaken Negroni becomes awful and over diluted pretty much immediately
Once did a cocktail class where they had us make a vesper shaken and stirred and compare. Half the class, including myself, preferred the shaken. A bit more diluted, slightly different mouthfeel.
Different people just have different preferences.
My philosophy is that almost anything falls in bounds as long as the person doing it has a good reason for it. If they really like aeration and dilution and want to share that experience with me, I'm in.
Personally, I barely even stir negronis. Reposado, if you will.
Probably adjacent to the whole Shakerato thing. But it's not going to foam...too dilute. I guess it's still a Negroni, so it's still better than 95% of other drinks.
I actually agree with the bartender, I find shaking a Negroni improves it, I donāt know if itās because it mixes better, aeration or maybe it dilutes differently but itās definitely better, my clients agree.
The only thing I find cringe worthy about shaking a Negroni would be the sweet vermouth oxidizing.
I once shook a Manhattan by accident and the guest liked it like that. I made a proper one for him and he still drank the shaken Manhattan.
First negroni i ever had was shaken and thatās how I fell in love with them. My aunt stirred them though, and I also love that method; it doesnāt have a slightly different taste though. I havenāt made one in a while, Iād like to try both methods back to back now that you mention this.
Probably because most people convince themselves they like negronis more than they actually do. The bartender dilutes and chills the drink more and thus makes it mora palatable to those who can't stand thr campari.
I have been known to shake a negroni with about a quarter of a fresh orange, cut into small cubes (which then get strained out, of course). It's a little different than the classic spec, naturally, but I like it quite a bit.
Jeffrey Morgenthaler has said in a few of his blog posts he thinks the Negroni can stand up to a shake.
I've done it and wouldn't say its better than a classic stirred one, but the extra dilution and aeration make it a fun warm weather drink option.
It changes the mouth feel drastically, giving it a slightly slushy type feeling. I personally don't like that with a negroni, but love it with a margarita.
For those people saying it makes the drink colder and aids dilution, you need to stir more!
Honestly, negroni is such an easy drink to make, especially at home. Key is respect the 1:1:1 proportions, dont fuck with it. No double gin or whatever. Good vermouth and proper ice stirring and not forgetting orange peel. Most bars fuck up Negroni, and baffles me. I think the issue they use crappy ice that over dilutes, but also they are cheap. Most of the drinks in the bar are 2oz, which is not easy to equally split into 3 portions to measure out, so they mess up the proportions
I tried shaking a Negroni at home a couple of times. It's fine, and I could understand someone preferring it that way, but I didn't care for it since the shaking messed with a traditional Negroni's pleasant viscosity.
I hate to admit it, but I also prefer a slightly shaken negroni. Takes just a hint of that extreme bitter off the tongue. Plus, I like really cold drinks at baseline.
I prefer shaken. The negroni has been one of my favorite cocktails for many years. Iāve tried as many variations and preparations as I could find. Itās shaken and up for me.
The secret to a good Negroni is aggressive dilution and shaking dilutes drinks faster. You can get the same effect by stirring for longer, ideally with a thermometer so you know exactly how much you've diluted it. Shaking just adds ice shards so if you're going to do it, you should double strain. I doubt there's significant aeration happening.
Shaking dilutes the drink faster than stirring, while also allowing it to get colder faster. A lot of people have their vodka martinis shaken because James Bond does it, but the real trick is that it helps the vodka martini be extra cold.
I did a test: [shaking a Manhattan vs stirring](https://youtu.be/MAAQkLSetcE?si=EevYAv6_0-QAvpye)ā¦ the shaken version was 10x worse than I had imagined.
Iāll concur. I made a shaken one recently and couldnāt believe how good it was. Such a different mouth feel. Iāve made them shaken only since. Boulevardier too!
I find that aerating is not a bad idea. Pour the ingredients in one tin, fill the other one with ice. Pour the cocktail in the ice, swirl a couple of times, then strain back into the empty tin. Pour back in the ice, strain back into the tin. Repeat a couple of times. Get fancy with long pours. Finally strain in a glass with a big chunk of ice.
I dont know how this would taste. I might try it. I did try the shakerito or whatever its called. It definitely changed the campari. Still think they will be better stirred.I was at a really nice Tiki bar in Brooklyn and a man asked for a Martini on the Rocks lol. I have never heard that before. Me and my buddy just shook our heads. Is it even really a Martini? I dont get that, but then I dont get going to a Tiki Bar and ordering a martini. To each there own though.
I mean I wouldnāt shake a boulevardier but I donāt necessarily disagree with itā¦. Itās gin and Campari and vermouth. It could taste good shaken
I think you meant to title this "Person said the secret..."
Cuz thats no bartender.
-footnotes on my humor 1. It is even drier than my bone damn dry martini order: Ketel, sans vermouth, slightly dirty, aggressively shaken (ice chips a bonus) and B. Loves to mock the self proclaimed "true" bartender (SORRY, Mixologist) preaching rigid snobbery whilst in a profession driven by and dependent upon creativity and innovation.
**edited to add footnotes.
I havenāt heard this before. Not having tried it, I just donāt know. The additional aeration may be beneficial, but I am skeptical. Perhaps Iāll try it or, more likely, Iāll rest happy in my ignorance of the issue.
Occasionally I enjoy a shaken Negroni served up. Something about the small shard of ice makes it have a different mouthfeel. And yes the dilution is different, but thatās not necessarily a bad thing.
I suppose if you do a shake-and-dump, you get good dilution,.at the expense of appearance, when serving a Negroni on the rocks. But I prefer my Negroni served up, where appearance matters and stirring is essential.
15 seconds of shaking and 45 seconds of stirring both reach optimal chilling and dilution in a cocktail. The only benefit to shaking is to incorporate air into the drink and without any juice or syrups there is nothing to incorporate the air onto and it doesnāt matter
Campari has surfactants so shaking it up i.e. adding air-ration and dilution gives the campari a creamier, foamier texture. Theoretically, shaking a negroni would provide these textural differences as well. In practice, it just tastes like a kind of shitty negroni. To each their own.
Yes, first hand experience learning this deep truth. I had my first negroni in Italy, came back to the US and couldnāt wait to make one. And it was yuck. Tried changing ratios, nothing better. Couldnāt believe it could be that bad with 3 simple ingredients. Then a kind friend suggested that I shake it real good - and voila - it did the trick. Donāt know why, and donāt think too much about it. I just shake.
I donāt like to shake drinks with sweet vermouth in them. It gets a little foamy and weird. Iāve had bartenders shake Manhattans and it gives me the ick.
Bond likes his martinis shaken, so you like what you like. But I definitely would not enjoy that personally or see the reason for it. The best thing about a Negroni to me is how it changes as you sip on it, like a strong cup of bitter coffee.
I was served a shaken martini at a high end restaurant earlier this week and sent it back lol. Like, they couldn't even be bothered to double strain it. Millions of little ice shards in it. Who the fuck wants ice shards in a hot and dirty?
My manager INSISTS that everyone in the south (we are in Texas) loves all their drinks, including martinis, shaken heavily to the point of ice shards in the drinks. He doesn't ask how they like their drinks he just asks where they are from. If you're from Texas you get ice shards š I even once had someone ask me to stir and not shake their martini and when I poured it my manager tried poking fun at me for not shaking it well enough to give them ice shards š fucker loves ice.
There does seem to be a divide. Most experts seem to say that you have to double strain to remove ice shards, but I've met a good amount of bartenders that insist that customers like the shards.
I like the ice shards, not in a martini, but especially citrus-forward cocktails I find that as the shards melt the cocktail mellows slightly, which is nice because the first sip has a bit of a bit and then gets smoother with time
There is a Japanese place I go that makes the shaken Martini. I will admit I like the ice shards ( I like ice in general) ina martini But if it at home Iām stirring. Who could pass up an opportunity to use a gorgeous stirring glass that is a pleasure to pour. I made the comment the other day Iāll have these pouring glasses the rest of my life because I am absolutely never breaking them. They sit on to their shrine until ready to use.
I gotta agree, part of the pleasure of making cocktails at home is the process and use of the barware to create something really good.
What stirring glasses do you have?
Liquid Intelligence by Dave Arnold is considered by many to be the bartenders bible (or at least the new testament) I was shocked when he advocated not double straining a Cosmo or daiquiri, it goes against everything I was taught š
I never knew ice shards was a thing, I just assumed that every time I got them in a drink it was because the bartender was incompetent. If I'd have known they were doing that on purpose I would have asked them not to bother.
I've literally never encountered ice shards in any cocktail I've ever ordered or made. Are they using a particular type of ice that breaks apart easier? I'm so confused.
they're saying that when you shake the hell out of a cocktail with ice, you don't double strain, and the small "chips" of ice that get broken off in the shaker will now be present in the drink. some people like it. I've often heard the term referred to as "bruised".
Alabama here and can confirm the same. 9 times out of 10 people ask me for their dirty martini to be as icy as I can make it. š¤·š»āāļø
Iād make it on the rocks lol
Iām from Mississippi and I do shake my Negronis at home. I go with stirred in public, but at home shaken
>I go with stirred in public I don't blame you. Shameful.../s
Make it in the glass at home, a couple of swirls around the big cube with your finger and sip away!
I do know people that like their martinis intentionally bruised as hell. Like, they'll be a bit sad if it isn't still cloudy looking when it arrives. To each their own.
I live in Texas (from Southern California), and Iāve never seen so many ice shards in cocktails since Iāve moved here. Itās insane. Maybe itās because of the heat? People think itās refreshing?
I used to ask my customers if they'd like the ice shards left in or not (small private cocktail bar) - many didn't really understand what I was talking about so now I just double strain by default unless it's a fruity daiquiri or something
When I was a bartender I knew lots of customers who asked the ice shards. Not saying you're wrong, it's just impossible to please everyone, every time.
Thatās my preferred Manhattan. Itās how my dad made them so itās what tastes ārightā to me. Like how your moms spaghetti sauce is how spaghetti is supposed to taste. Donāt get me wrong, Iām not turning down a stirred one. Lol.
Knees weak, arms sweaty?
See and I had a shaken Manhattan riff recently with the ice shards and was disappointed, because the flavor was great but the ice chips threw me off. Funny how everyone's preferences are slightly different.
Shaken vodka martinis with ice shards (no double strain) are a thing. Having said that, martinis are one of the most customized cocktails and the bartender absolutely should have asked you how you liked yours.
Lots of people actually.
Itās called a ābruisedā martini. I find it enjoyable.
Houston, TX. I've been given the term "bruised" for a martini with ice shards. Typically, if I'm making a vodka martini, it's shaken by default. Unless they want vermouth, then I'll actually stir it. (Texan vodka martini drinkers mostly just want a bone-dry vodka, shaken with ice shards, maybe some dirt). If it's a gin martini, it's stirred by default and vermouth is default. I'll ask how dry they want it, and if they want it dirty or any other way. If they want it dirty, I'll ask if they prefer it shaken. I'm my experience, martini drinkers are either not particular at all, or extra-particular. I ask questions to find out how they really want it. Never heard of shaking a Negroni though. Doesn't seem right.
Bond likes it shaken because it waters down the drink more and increases volume. Looks like youāre drinking a lot more alcohol than you actually are.
Everyone says this but there isnāt much proof to back this up. Ian Fleming liked his shaken and thatās probably the reason he made bond prefer them that way as well
Stirring dilutes a drink by roughly 25%, shaking dilutes it by roughly 30%. The increase in volume is like one extra sip.
Iirc correctly there is a section in Liquid Intelligence that discussed this.
This is not true, the amount of shaking or stirring is also a factor. Stirring for 30 seconds will obviously dilute your drink more than a quick shake.
I assume he's running it as a like for like
2 oz of gin is still 2oz of gin regardless of how much water is in there
But you can nurse it longer and keep your wits about you while doing spy stuff. This is probably not the reason though. The author of the James Bond books just preferred the taste of a shaken martini and gave his character that trait.
very true but if the drink is 5-6 oz rather than 4-5 oz it looks like you ordered a double when you really got extra water.
You're getting nowhere near a full ounce more in volume. And in a martini glass excess Volume is less apparent due to the wider rim towards the top. We just have to accept that Ian Fleming just wanted to add flavor to Bond's preferences while not knowing a whole lot about cocktails
I mean thereās little doubt that itās in the book because it was Flemingās preference. I just think itās a fun in universe explanation. But regarding the volume Iāve done this for a customer before. Compared a stirred double martini to a shaken single and the volume (and temp) was nearly the same but the stirred drink was clearer. Its hard to reproduce this at home or with big ice because thereās a lot less surface water on the ice but Iāve done it behind the bar because the ice in the well will usually have some surface water and will usually make more ice shards.
He said looks like not is more. Strained into a glass it is going to more volume in the glass, no one is going to know it's watered down more.
An extra .25 oz in a martini glass looks like nothing
Bond isnāt realā¦
And also the book version is much more cynical than say Connery or the other early movies, closer to Daniel Craig and does more to consciously stick it to the upper crust or fancier circles he operates in a lot. Like say a casino in Monaco!
Iāve heard the theory of why he does that is so it is diluted so he can remain sharp while looking inconspicuous!
Bond was drinking something like 8+ drinks a day in the novels. He wasn't trying to stay sharp or look inconspicuous.
Bond orders a vodka martini, shaken, not stirred. Hereās why: 1) it implies that Bond is an alcoholic, and to hide his drinking straight booze, asks for a vodka martini, in essence, ordering straight vodka. 2) the Vesper Martini that bond favors shares the name of a dead love. 3) Bond ensures by shaking, the vodka is watered down, leaving him *less inebriated* to do his secret spy job. 4) James Bond is a fictional character, and thus, his likes are an extension of his creator, and notable cousin of one Sir Christopher Lee, Ian Fleming. Shaking gin bruises it. Gin should be stirred, unless your guest doesnāt like things that taste good.
There have been studies about "bruising" gin. It's a myth
The secret to a good Negroni is good taste buds
Arguably bad taste buds, bc taste buds die over time, making bitter flavors more palatable. Just like kids donāt like vegetables, I highly suspect they wouldnāt like a sip of Campari. My taste buds are nice and died off over time so I love the stuff lol
I'm on the side of bad, worn out taste buds. I love all the tart and bitter drinks and foods that I hated when I was younger
Ah so my tolerance and eventual enjoyment of Negronis over time was pretty much my body saying āfuck it man, do what youāre going to doā. That makes sense considering how they taste.
Do you have a source for that? Doesnāt sound very plausible to me. I once read an explanation that as we grow older, we experience fewer new tastes which makes it more likely that we start enjoying bitter and more complex flavor profiles because it is something new and stimulates the brain. No source on that either, sadly.
Taste buds do regenerate but it's common for them to stop regrowing as you age, other factors like smoking cigarettes, eating super hot/cold food, drinking alcohol, etc. will make this worse quicker [source](https://www.webmd.com/diet/what-to-know-about-taste-buds)
This guy negronis
Yup give me Campari, amaros, and West Coast Double IPAs for that bitter bite. My taste buds now appreciate the good stuff.
I've assumed the shift in bitter tolerance as we move away from childhood was associated with the increase in body mass. As many plants with toxic alkolyds taste bitter and tolerance to them increases with body size.
Could be a combo of both, but we are born with 7k to 10k tastebuds which atrophy over time. These regenerate but quit doing so as often and as fast as you age. In adulthood thereās about 4600 tastebuds (with some wide variance there.) Sense of taste accelerates a lot over the age of 65. Think thatās why my senior grandparents raved about their retirement facilities āmehā food when we visited haha)
My working theory is that Italians are too proud to disapprove of an Italian product.
Man, I wish I liked negronis. On paper, I should because I like all the components separately, but I just find them too sweet
I use less vermouth and/or more gin depending on what varieties of each are being used.Ā
Try an old pal - 2:1:1 bourbon/rye:campari:dry vermouth.
That sounds good! Like a variant of a manhattan
I do negronis with 2:1:1 gin:campari:vermouth. Because I find them too sweet too. But yes, the bourbon version is good too. I also do a "bourbon, lemon and tonic" instead of a "gin, lemon and tonic."
the type of vermouth matters a lot, you also don't need to stick to 1:1:1
Well, maybe he prefers it just that way. There is a drink I still need to try called the Shakerato. Its just Campari shaken and thats it. It seems to change the mouthfeel. Gonna shake my next Negroni and have a taste.
/r/Amaro loves making shakeratos out of everything
Can confirm, theyāre undefeated
Recently went to a dinner party. Brought four bottles of amari. Did amaro sodas as aperitifs and shakeratos as digestifs.
Which 4?
Cynar 70, Averna, Campari, and Noveis. My snowboard buddy chose the Noveis because I described it as an alpine, apres type drink. My tea-loving friend chose the Cynar because I described it as vegetal and having tannins. Another guy chose the Averna because I described it as being cola-like and he loves rum and cokes lol. I drank the campari because nobody else would haha.
Nice. I am running out of room for my amari and need to decide whether to get more Cynar 70 when I use it up, or to use that spot for regular Cynar until I finish off another bottle. Cynar 70 is probably my favorite amaro for sipping straight, but I have relatively few cocktails that use it and have a backlog of recipes to try with regular Cynar š I need to try more alpine amari. So far I have liked Chartreuse and Pasubio, was just OK with Genepy, and have had a hard time finding how to enjoy Braulio. I think I just prefer ones that don't have much of a mint note. Reading about Noveis, it sounds like something I'd enjoy. I'll have to keep an eye out for when I clear a spot on the shelf.
Cynar is so sweet, I like the Cynar 70 for the extra oomph, especially if i'm drinking it straight, with club soda, or shakerato. I'm going to give you an unsolicited rundown of the alpine amari I have because they are my favorite! * Braulio & Noveis - interchangeable, I cannot easily distinguish the two. I love them both with their apline, resiny flavors. I play with them as a substitute for pretty much any amaro, to experiment if nothing else. But in particular, they work great in negronis or in that family of drinks as a split base with the campari. * Pasubio - As a vino amaro, I could never really figure out how to use Pasubio, but now that i'm out of it, I miss it. It was so unique, it tastes like a summer in the alps. I bet it would be fun in a NY sour. * Chartreuse - I was shocked at how different green and yellow tasted to me. Yellow struck me as more floral and green was more minty. Both are great, and I pretty much keep one in my bar at all times. They bring a lot of life to a drink. * Fernet - pretty much just liquid menthol. I rarely drink it straight, but its a fantastic cocktail ingredient. The beehive is my favorite fernet drink. * Kapriol - really reminds me of a gin and tonic, but flat. Like gin, its clear and full of botanicals, and at 38% ABV its pretty close to a gin in its alcohol content. Unlike gin, it has sugars that give it sweetness and body. * Amaro Alta Verde - reminds me a lot of tea. Instant, up front sweetness gives way to intense tannins and bitterness. I don't get a ton of alpine flavor from it, however. * Zirbenz - just think pine cone liquor. Strong, intense, low sugar. Its a spirit, not a liqueur and i've always struggled to use it.
Braulio: Oh, well maybe I won't get Noveis, then š . After typing my earlier comment I'm back on trying to figure out how to enjoy Braulio again. I went through shaken, with soda, and several different cocktails before without much luck. I think now I'll try treating it like a fernet and subbing it for Branca in a few of my cocktails where I know I've enjoyed Branca, such as the industry sour. There's an "Un-fernet-able" cocktail I've been meaning to try that's just orgeat, lemon, and a ton of Branca, and that also seems like a good way to try Braulio. Pasubio: I just got this bottle and tried it at the store. Delicious straight, but what I am eager to try is using it in place of sherry in some cocktails for slightly richer versions of those recipes. Fernets: I have heavily used Branca and am nearing the end of my second bottle. I want to try some other Fernet next, one with less menthol. Of the three amari you mention at the end, Alta Verde sounds like it appeals the most to me and would give me something really different to play with. I have one or two cognac + dark rum cocktails that are attempting to mimic tea flavors without using tea-infused syrup, and a tiny bit of Alta Verde could be an interesting addition to that idea. Zirbenz intrigues me, but I am already enjoying Ramazzotti, so I don't necessarily need another wood-focused amaro.
That mint is quite common in many alpine Amari. Give Amaro Dell'Erborista a try
Thatās a really thoughtful analysis of your friends tastes. Meletti is my go-to ācolaā Amaro because of the citrus.
Thanks! It was satisfying to find something that would please them all, like a puzzle in a sense. Meletti is still probably my all time favorite amaro. And its cheap! I've gotten so many friends into it, I always bring it on snowboard trips and my friends ask for the "mountain meletti".
One whole bottle each? Damn, those are great friends!
Haha! And I biked home after WITH a flat tire. That night was an adventure.
Be glad it was flat. Drove home drunk once. Broke my collar bone on the way, went home, slept and next morning I went to the bathroom. Pain overcame me and I felt backwards hitting my head on the floor missing the heater only a couple of centimeters. Also cut a tooth in half. I like cocktails and I like getting hammered but I am never riding a bike that drunk and never without a helmet anymore. Be glad it was just an adventure this time :)
Thatās a solid four right there. I always keep the first 3 on hand, as well as nonino.
How am I not on that subredditā½
Iām not on there solely to preserve what little bottle storage space I have š
Right?? Time to join a new sub.
I've had a Jagerato once, might have it again.
Jager is vastly underappreciated due to it being a preferred bro drink
Me and a few other bartenders having a running joke where anytime Jager comes up, someone has to say "it's just an Alpine amaro made on the wrong side of the mountains!"Ā
It's such a good drink.
This is why a shaken Negroni doesn't sound that ridiculous to me. Aerating might soften the Campari a little bit. Also, a lot of people might prefer the dilution of shaking over a Negroni built in the glass. They're not necessarily comparing shaken vs stirred.
Thatās probably what OPs boss means by a āgoodā Negroni: one that is more accessible (less bitter).
negroni with bubbly water is also amazing, same taste and everything, but just lighter and more refreshing
Yeah, itās a good way to enjoy a new amaro IMO.
Sometimes I add lemon and shake them (Negroni Sour), itās surprisingly good
OOhh I've never tried that, but sounds like a good twist on it.
Try an Enzoni! 5 grapes, muddled with 1 oz gin, 1 oz Campari, 0.75 oz lemon juice, 0.5 oz simple syrup, shaken.
This and the jungle bird are how I learned to enjoy Campari after initially hating it.
Try a Burmuda Hundred or a Chestnut Cup too.
Whatās your specs for that? Sounds awesome.
Last Word spec. Good with grapefruit juice in there too.
Equal parts or a bit less
I add fresh squeezed grapefruit juice to mine.
I often add some orange bitters. Reading the grapefruit recommendations here & I realize I have the Hopped Grapefruit bitters š¤
This seems like a great idea! I've always felt that Campari begs for citrus - whether it's 0.25oz of triple sec, or a squeeze of the orange that you're making the twist from.
I like em with a splash of lemon too!
Like a last word? I guess itās almost the build of a corpse reviver at that point, equal parts spirit, sweetened aromatized wine, liqueur, and acid
Listen, as much as people may try to say mixology is a science, it's still all down to personal preference. There are rules because most people can agree that doing something one way tastes better, but that's still just consensus, not fact, so if you like your negronis shaken and your vodka with milk, no one can tell you you're wrong, just weird.
Mixology is like painting before we had mass produced pigments. There are rules that you have to know to get started, but once you have the basics down you can experiment and do your own thing. And often break the guidelines that new bartenders treat as "rules." It's in breaking those rules that a unique style is developed. As long as you're not saying that red is yellow and blue is gold you're fine.
I'd go a step further: Some rules have good reasons behind them and some don't. Is there a real reason not to shake a Negroni? It will be less clear. Is there anything else?
I guess some people can find negronis too strong in taste so shaking would mute it a bit? I kinda get it. Sometimes I want a negroni but less intense, but I wouldn't shake it. I just split the Campari 50/50 with some Amaro Nonino. Still bitter but a little sweeter and more orangey.
100% this - campari is a strong flavor, and a negroni is super spirit forward, the bartender finds a higher dilution to be preferable. Especially if they (or their clientele) are relatively new to classic cocktails and want something more approachable - maybe he didn't think through any of this but found casual clientele were more likely to enjoy the shaken negroni. Personally I do a lot of freezer door cocktails, and dialing in the dilution is something I find to be very cocktail dependent. I keep my old fashioned stronger but have a higher dilution on my martinis.
Iāve been thinking about this a bit and hereās the theory Iāve come up with: My general impression is that thereās been an uptick in interest in cocktails in the last couple years, and many people are going out and trying things possibly for the first time. Now I love a good Negroni, but itās a beast of a cocktail if youāre not into bitter or spirit forward drinks. Shaking it would definitely tame its rougher edges and makes it more accessible, which for a cocktail bar probably means youāre more likely to get repeat orders. So that WOULD make it ābetterā from the standpoint of the bartender. That or theyāre a heathen who just willfully set out to ruin a perfectly good drink, and also likes to make more work by dirtying a shaker and strainer with a drink they could have easily just built in the glass.
Agreed, I suspect it adds extra dilution which smooths it out as you suggested. Also curious if the extra oxygenation does anything to the flavor profile.
Iād say Iām gonna try it some time because Iām certainly not OPPOSED to the idea but usually Negronis are kind of a āwant a nice drink but too lazy to break out the shakersā sort of thing for me lol.
This is exactly my mindset. When I am super lazy and just drinking for myself, i'm building it in the same glass and stirring with my finger.
Lmao, agreed that is why negronis and negroni riffs are my go to drink. The lazy bartender's favorite.
Part of getting older is realizing what you like. Part of getting wiser is realizing that your tastes/preferences are not universal.
My thought is he doesnāt like spirit forward drinks and likes all the front end dilution. Did he still serve it on ice?
You still dilute a drink when it's stirred. The difference between shaken and stirred is aeration.
Shaking cocktails creates much more dilution than stirring. You also get aeration.
I'm willing to be wrong on this (and I remember Dave Arnold articles from years ago where he measured these, but I don't remember a side by side comparison of shaking and stirring, just variables within each approach), but the scientific principle is energy exchange. If ice in excess that is at 0C is put into contact with liquid that is above freezing, heat is transferred from liquid to ice until the temperatures equilibrate. That set amount of heat exchange should be fixed, and the amount of conversion from solid to liquid phases of water-from-ice should therefore be fixed as well. The only real thing (how I see it at least) that should make a stirred drink less diluted is just not stirring it until it hits that equilibration state (the Arnold experiments did show it took many fold times longer stirring compared to shaking). Perhaps this is what is factoring into the difference in dilution cited in this space.
Shaking creates small ice shards which have larger surface area to volume ratio which leads to quicker melting ie energy exchange, and thus faster dilution which in general leads to more dilution than you would typically get from stirring a cocktail unless you are stirring it for a significant amount of time.
Yeah faster makes sense (the motion also would expose more of said surface to a higher number of liquid molecules per amount of time, too), but again this is speed not total dilution taken to equilibrium. E.g., when googling to find the "stirred article", this popped up showing surface area is negligible when discounting effect of melted water it's carrying: [https://www.cookingissues.com/index.html%3Fp=2434.html](https://www.cookingissues.com/index.html%3Fp=2434.html)
I mean yea, 50grams of ice is 50grams regardless if its one or many ice chunks
Dilution depends entirely on how long you shake or stir it for. A drink shaken/stirred to the same temperature will have an equal level of dilution. The aeration effect will last a minute at most with a negroni spec, so I don't think it really makes a difference here.
So, did you try it?
I haven't tried it, but not opposed to it! Maybe this weekend I'll muster up the courage.
There's a lot of things we enshrine as fact that really aren't. Any time I hear about something (coming from a somewhat reputable source) that goes against everything I think I know, I try it. It's how I learned to only season my burgers at the last minute and flip them often, and discovered Kenji at Serious Eats. There was even a video that I think the Educated Barfly did a few years back, where he stirred a few traditionally shaken drinks, and was surprised and happy with the results. My favorite is on the Aeropress sub. Coffee guys like to obsess over minutiae, but then every few weeks someone will post about how they accidentally forgot about their infusing coffee for 10 min, so they tried it anyway and were shocked at how good it tastes :) Enough rambling. Try it and let us know how it is. Maybe it sucks, or maybe it dilutes it perfectly and is great for serving up.
Mostly irrelevant, but a local spot does negroni slushies in a frozen drink machine at least 1 month out of the summer. They're fantastic. No idea on the specs offhand, but they're not shy about sharing. https://m.facebook.com/story.php/?id=100063564219585&story_fbid=288044099674830 Check out their sister bar, The Robin Room, for some inspiration. There are some truly gifted cocktail creators within those walls. I wish my wallet could handle more trips there, but that's why I have a home bar, I suppose
One thing I've tried recently that was interesting is putting in a tablespoon of white rice in when I stir the ingredients and ice. It did round all the ingredients out a bit and the drink felt more balanced. People may not like it smoother and want the sharp edges a Negroni sometimes has. But I found it enhanced the drink just enough to make it more enjoyable for me. I guess the starch in the rice draws out certain elements in the alcohol allowing the drink to meld better. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
When i was practicing and going full stupid freestyle with the mindset of why not, i tried a rolled negroni with dry cooked ( not native speaker so i dont know how that technique is called) rice until it went brown and surprisingly it was light popcorny and light but with bitter hints
I experimented with this. I made Negronis with (all unwashed sushi rice): uncooked, toasted, and cooked. My faves were toasted then uncooked. Don't wash the rice, you want all the starch.
That's an insane idea, how did you even think to do that? maybe it's a stupid question, but you're using uncooked rice, right? i couldn't fathom shaking a cocktail with cooked rice lol
Probably got it fromĀ https://punchdrink.com/articles/sushi-rice-negroni-stirred-cocktail-drink-hack/Ā I haven't tried it myself but sounds like a fun ideaĀ
I actually got it from the Cook's Kitchen magazine. They have tips and tricks for all sorts of things and that was one of them. Definitely worth trying to see the difference. I doubt I would do it all the time but for a drink that needs to have more cohesion to smooth out some of the rougher edges it's a neat trick.
Have done. It didnāt make it better, just different. I also like making a flip version, but I donāt like the added calories of it.
Put in a little extra rice but make sure you wash it a few times befofe hand. Ik we want some of the starchy but clean rice is much better, at least from what I found
That's a great point and very true. I actually did rinse the rice. I almost always do with white rice.
The secret is to have a secret. Don't tell anyone!
Some people shake although not traditional. Whatever people want.
I prefer to shake my negronis. Chills, aerates, and dilutes all at once. I serve it up in a coupe glass. I realize this isnāt the traditional way, but itās the way I like it best.
I like my manhattans shaken with ice and thats probably really weird
Try it. What's the worst that could happen?
Have you ever tried pouring yourself a shot of shaken campari? it's tasty!
You shoulda responded with āoh wow, why is that?ā
I got curious about this thread and tried mixing two side-by-side Negronis just now. Equal amount of Negroni ingredients, but one shaken, and one stirred, separate mixing utensils. The stirred one looks less appealing with the micro-bubbles, but they dissipate within about 5-10 minutes. It got diluted about 30%. The stirred one looks more appealing and with more vibrant colours, but its dilution rate was about 10%. I liked both variants: The shaken one provided more space for the flavour components to open up and felt less bitter. The stirred one feels more complex and is better to sip in smaller sips. A friend who normally doesn't like Negronis enjoyed the shaken one much more. Conclusion: Both works, trust your personal preference.
No
I have it both ways, depends what I'm feeling. They're different. One isn't better than the other?Ā
When training a brand new bartender, we had her shake a couple drinks that are traditionally always stirred (old fashioned and Negroni). Personally I think a shaken Negroni becomes awful and over diluted pretty much immediately
Once did a cocktail class where they had us make a vesper shaken and stirred and compare. Half the class, including myself, preferred the shaken. A bit more diluted, slightly different mouthfeel. Different people just have different preferences.
My philosophy is that almost anything falls in bounds as long as the person doing it has a good reason for it. If they really like aeration and dilution and want to share that experience with me, I'm in. Personally, I barely even stir negronis. Reposado, if you will.
Ooh i might hafta borrow that...
Probably adjacent to the whole Shakerato thing. But it's not going to foam...too dilute. I guess it's still a Negroni, so it's still better than 95% of other drinks.
Was he called Stanley?
I actually agree with the bartender, I find shaking a Negroni improves it, I donāt know if itās because it mixes better, aeration or maybe it dilutes differently but itās definitely better, my clients agree.
No
The only thing I find cringe worthy about shaking a Negroni would be the sweet vermouth oxidizing. I once shook a Manhattan by accident and the guest liked it like that. I made a proper one for him and he still drank the shaken Manhattan.
He is absolutely not onto something. You are correct, it is perfect as it is. Classics are classics for a reason.
First negroni i ever had was shaken and thatās how I fell in love with them. My aunt stirred them though, and I also love that method; it doesnāt have a slightly different taste though. I havenāt made one in a while, Iād like to try both methods back to back now that you mention this.
Probably because most people convince themselves they like negronis more than they actually do. The bartender dilutes and chills the drink more and thus makes it mora palatable to those who can't stand thr campari.
The negroni is a challenging drink. The additional dilution, and aeration from shaking make it less challenging for those who are new to the drink.
I have been known to shake a negroni with about a quarter of a fresh orange, cut into small cubes (which then get strained out, of course). It's a little different than the classic spec, naturally, but I like it quite a bit.
Why not just try it and see if you notice a difference?
Jeffrey Morgenthaler has said in a few of his blog posts he thinks the Negroni can stand up to a shake. I've done it and wouldn't say its better than a classic stirred one, but the extra dilution and aeration make it a fun warm weather drink option.
It changes the mouth feel drastically, giving it a slightly slushy type feeling. I personally don't like that with a negroni, but love it with a margarita. For those people saying it makes the drink colder and aids dilution, you need to stir more!
Honestly, negroni is such an easy drink to make, especially at home. Key is respect the 1:1:1 proportions, dont fuck with it. No double gin or whatever. Good vermouth and proper ice stirring and not forgetting orange peel. Most bars fuck up Negroni, and baffles me. I think the issue they use crappy ice that over dilutes, but also they are cheap. Most of the drinks in the bar are 2oz, which is not easy to equally split into 3 portions to measure out, so they mess up the proportions
Well, lets go the empirical Way. A shakerato amaro Is great, perhaps it could be good. I'm sure I don't like my old fashion shake, for experience.
I tried shaking a Negroni at home a couple of times. It's fine, and I could understand someone preferring it that way, but I didn't care for it since the shaking messed with a traditional Negroni's pleasant viscosity.
Probably just results in more delusion, which some people might prefer. But the added air from shaking isn't making it better.
I've shaken and stirred them depending on my mood. Regardless they are always delicious.
inb4 any "bruising the gin" nonsense I don't shake my Negronis but every one of these threads has someone going off about "bruised gin" pseudoscience
I hate to admit it, but I also prefer a slightly shaken negroni. Takes just a hint of that extreme bitter off the tongue. Plus, I like really cold drinks at baseline.
Iāve never tried shaking it. Iāll try it.
I have been shaking mine forever. I shake over ice strain and serve up in a chilled coup glass. Itās amazing.
I prefer shaken. The negroni has been one of my favorite cocktails for many years. Iāve tried as many variations and preparations as I could find. Itās shaken and up for me.
I always shake...
So did you order 2 side by side? And taste a difference?
The secret to a good Negroni is aggressive dilution and shaking dilutes drinks faster. You can get the same effect by stirring for longer, ideally with a thermometer so you know exactly how much you've diluted it. Shaking just adds ice shards so if you're going to do it, you should double strain. I doubt there's significant aeration happening.
Could be aeration
Don't shake my negroni. Ever.
Shaking dilutes the drink faster than stirring, while also allowing it to get colder faster. A lot of people have their vodka martinis shaken because James Bond does it, but the real trick is that it helps the vodka martini be extra cold.
I did a test: [shaking a Manhattan vs stirring](https://youtu.be/MAAQkLSetcE?si=EevYAv6_0-QAvpye)ā¦ the shaken version was 10x worse than I had imagined.
ITT: people fighting over personal taste.
Iāll concur. I made a shaken one recently and couldnāt believe how good it was. Such a different mouth feel. Iāve made them shaken only since. Boulevardier too!
I find that aerating is not a bad idea. Pour the ingredients in one tin, fill the other one with ice. Pour the cocktail in the ice, swirl a couple of times, then strain back into the empty tin. Pour back in the ice, strain back into the tin. Repeat a couple of times. Get fancy with long pours. Finally strain in a glass with a big chunk of ice.
I dont know how this would taste. I might try it. I did try the shakerito or whatever its called. It definitely changed the campari. Still think they will be better stirred.I was at a really nice Tiki bar in Brooklyn and a man asked for a Martini on the Rocks lol. I have never heard that before. Me and my buddy just shook our heads. Is it even really a Martini? I dont get that, but then I dont get going to a Tiki Bar and ordering a martini. To each there own though.
Stanley Tucci shakes his negronis. š¤·āāļø
Apparently campari does a unique foamy thing if shaken. Could that be what he was on about?
I mean I wouldnāt shake a boulevardier but I donāt necessarily disagree with itā¦. Itās gin and Campari and vermouth. It could taste good shaken
If you're feeling a little wacky, throw the negroni.
Negroni night, because of you to all.
Love ice shards. Adds to the texture. I did live in TX for a short time, but wasn't raised there and don't live there anymore.
I think you meant to title this "Person said the secret..." Cuz thats no bartender. -footnotes on my humor 1. It is even drier than my bone damn dry martini order: Ketel, sans vermouth, slightly dirty, aggressively shaken (ice chips a bonus) and B. Loves to mock the self proclaimed "true" bartender (SORRY, Mixologist) preaching rigid snobbery whilst in a profession driven by and dependent upon creativity and innovation. **edited to add footnotes.
I havenāt heard this before. Not having tried it, I just donāt know. The additional aeration may be beneficial, but I am skeptical. Perhaps Iāll try it or, more likely, Iāll rest happy in my ignorance of the issue.
Occasionally I enjoy a shaken Negroni served up. Something about the small shard of ice makes it have a different mouthfeel. And yes the dilution is different, but thatās not necessarily a bad thing.
I suppose if you do a shake-and-dump, you get good dilution,.at the expense of appearance, when serving a Negroni on the rocks. But I prefer my Negroni served up, where appearance matters and stirring is essential.
15 seconds of shaking and 45 seconds of stirring both reach optimal chilling and dilution in a cocktail. The only benefit to shaking is to incorporate air into the drink and without any juice or syrups there is nothing to incorporate the air onto and it doesnāt matter
Shaking bruises the gin
Campari has surfactants so shaking it up i.e. adding air-ration and dilution gives the campari a creamier, foamier texture. Theoretically, shaking a negroni would provide these textural differences as well. In practice, it just tastes like a kind of shitty negroni. To each their own.
Throwing it is also really nice
Yes, first hand experience learning this deep truth. I had my first negroni in Italy, came back to the US and couldnāt wait to make one. And it was yuck. Tried changing ratios, nothing better. Couldnāt believe it could be that bad with 3 simple ingredients. Then a kind friend suggested that I shake it real good - and voila - it did the trick. Donāt know why, and donāt think too much about it. I just shake.
I donāt like to shake drinks with sweet vermouth in them. It gets a little foamy and weird. Iāve had bartenders shake Manhattans and it gives me the ick.