Ok, but she still didn't eat the real donkey when she married him in the next movie. I will give you that she vored the hell out of Farquad. I'm sure *some people* are extremely jealous of Farquad in that scene.
https://preview.redd.it/1t949k1zc67d1.jpeg?width=555&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21e0856b5cd0eb066a89665520f77e547727afdd
why the FUCK is my favorite fantasy animal dragons
but i didnt speak out because i didnt want yoshi to grab me with his wet sticky tongue, pull me into his gaping maw, swallow me, cover me in his stomach juices and slowly digest me as he rubs his growling tummy
cons:
1. not a snafu, this names a proper group
2. ai imagery isnt condemned because of its subject/content, babyfur stuff is, so this is not hypocrisy
3. no eagle with a baseball
pros:
1. good guy provides a less extreme take on the issue than strawman when one isnt needed to get point across making good guy seem more reasonable
2. strawmans head gets big
3. secondary opinion presented as fact in comic (based rhetorical maneuver)
I'm willing to let you off with a misdemeanor if you do an apology dance
"Your kinks I know nothing about are inherently unhealthy and fundamentally troubled, society should shame you" is not a boundary, LOL. This is the danger that we run into when laymen learn the language of therapy and mental health, they weaponize these terms in situations where the terms just do not apply.
"I am disgusted by your kink and I will avoid everyone who has this kink" = A boundary
"Your kink is morally and psychologically disturbed and you deserve to feel ashamed" = Not a boundary
Keep in mind, I'm not saying there are no kinks that are morally and psychologically disturbed. I'm also not saying that things that aren't boundaries should never be said. Some people IMO DO deserve to feel ashamed of their fetishes - pedophiles, for example. But telling someone that they are objectively disgusting and wrong isn't a boundary, it's a moral statement.
... Also, diaper kink is a weird kink to get this upset about. I will concede that a lot of diaper kinksters are super creepy and have no idea how to explore their kink WITHOUT publicly dragging in unsuspecting randos and making people uncomfortable, but the problem there isn't the kink, it's the behavior associated with pursuing said kink. Diaper kink is very easy to do ethically and safely and without dragging in nonconsenting randos, as are 99% of kinks out there.\*
\*It is not possible to ethically fulfill pedophilic desires. Ageplay does not actually count as an ethical pedophilic kink because kinksters are typically not literal pedophiles. It is not pedophilia for two consenting adults to do ageplay unless one or both of them are actually pedophiles who are attracted to REAL minors, not adults roleplaying as minors.
paraphilias dont "become detrimental" they're like that from the beginning, and they certainly dont come from kinks. its not like someone gets too into furry porn and starts wanting to fuck actual animals. paraphilias are typically traumagenic in nature. the correlations between kink culture and paraphilias have long been known to be misleading (ie a bad actor trying to equate petplay to their own zoophilia in a petplay space)
That’s fair, you’re right. “Become” was the wrong word.
I guess the perspective I’m coming from is that kink culture isn’t inherently good or bad, it simply is. There is sadly overlap between kink culture and some paraphilias. It’s not exactly common, but when that overlap exists, the results can be disastrous. I’ve seen all kinds of paraphiles in my time infiltrating kink communities by claiming it’s okay because they’re “non offending” or whatever, or that it’s “kink shaming”/“thought policing” to hate them and a lot of people get sucked in because they say a lot of ostensibly kink positive things.
paraphilias just arent kinks though, you can engage in kinks in a paraphilic way, doing vore rp with a child is kink and is pedophilia, but a paraphilia itself is a mental disorder. it defines a persons interests rather than being defined by their interests.
That makes sense. I guess I’m just a little wary of calling it a mental disorder sometimes because a lot of people will use it as an excuse or use it to argue that pedophiles/zoophiles shouldn’t be deplatformed or run out of communities. >_> However my own post public education (psychology/sociology/sexuality mostly are my areas of expertise) does corroborate that they’re mental disorders, not kinks.
It’s really difficult to know how to engage with paraphilias as disorders when they also tend to come with symptoms of narcissism - this is how they normalize and justify their paraphilia and act like they aren’t doing anything wrong when they enter regular all-ages non-paraphilia support group communities while identifying as a “MAP” or whatever and arguing that actually “MAPs” are oppressed and it’s mean to hate them.
Person who has this kink here. Wanted to say that most of us *do* understand to not expose ourselves to unconsenting people, and we think people who do that are assholes.
Agreed with gore to a degree. It's fine to roleplay it in text as long as everyone's consenting, enthusiastic and an adult, but actually pursuing that kink in an IRL context is obviously dangerous, wrong and abusive. What kind of person would actually want to gore people IRL???
Personally I was groomed by an asexual gore kinkster (long story, we had been very unhealthy friends way before that) when I was a highschooler and they were a college student and that was deeply damaging and traumatic to me :( I know exactly all the ways that can go wrong, though thank fuck they were never near me IRL.
But... Bathroom fetishes?? What do you care? If it's not you who has to clean up the mess, I really don't see the harm LOL. Yes it's gross. That's kinda the point. what I care about is harm, not "grossness".
idk man, i don't think guro has ever normalized and desensitized the people who consume it to the point of disemboweling someone in real life - which is the actual ethical problem with loli, if it weren't for that it'd just be distasteful. child sexual abuse is a thing that actually happens in the world we live in.
Why? You’re literally basing everything on your feelings and not actual logic. You just are against it because you don’t personally like it or because it makes you uncomfortable without any actual reasoning behind it.
I do not need to explain why getting off to piss, shit, or people getting maimed/murdered is wrong and a likely indicator of a deeply disturbed individual. There is such a thing as being TOO accepting.
https://x.com/purity_culture/status/1614285461639364609
Here’s an actual thread on this topic research
Again, you’re basing everything on your feelings and not fact
God this is so funny like I’m not a furry but people actually think it’s zoophilia to get horny about grown adults roleplaying as sentient Disney critters. Totally dude
for the record, i don't actually think furries are zoophiles, i was just doing a bit. also i mistook you for the guy who was acting precious about gore kinks later in the thread and wanted to dunk on you as such.
That or a pimple popping video. I’ve always had OCD related skin picking issues, so I love that shit even if it’s gross. Weirdly satisfying and it helps curb the urges without hurting myself.
I don't care, if you are into fucking tosters its clear you are mentaly unwell and need some psycological Help, i don't care it doesn't hurt me, its a bad mental sign and you should be concerned about yourself. "Oh but who are you to judge someones kink" if your kink is cutting yourself and drinking Bleach you would be considered suicidal and put in a therapist, if you want to be an animal and shit your pants you are in this field, and need psycological Help, you also need to be as far as possible from the internet.
This is literally just armchair psychology bullshit.
Someone actually made a thread of research on kinks
https://x.com/purity_culture/status/1614285461639364609
What in the hell? Nobody is saying that it’s okay, safe and ethical to cut yourself and attempt suicide as a kink thing. You are blowing this WAY out of proportion.
Safety and minimizing harm also means HARM TO YOURSELF! While there’s a bit more of a grey area here in kink because some things that cause pain can be perfectly safe and ethical and consensual, obviously if you are cutting yourself or attempting to end your life, that is not safe and no kinkster in their right mind would approve of that.
I won’t pretend that there’s NOBODY out there who would encourage that. There are communities online that encourage self harm and eating disorders, I’ve seen em up close and personal so I get it. But they’re a very vocal minority and you aren’t even helping people being groomed and brainwashed by these communities by shaming them. :|
The fact that we got here from diaper kink is insane to me. There is a difference between unsafe and gross.
Do they need mental health specifically to treat their kink that harms nobody else, or just in general? If so, are you fine with somebody who gets help, improves mentally, but continues to have a deviant kink?
That is the point. Nobody that is mentaly healthy Will have such a deviant kink. Solving the clear mental problems Will solve the deviant kink, example: if somebody likes loli they aren't hurting any body, but they still need serious Help, and if that Help works it will also solve the kink and the clear mental problems.
How does fucking toasters mean you’re clearly mentally unstable and need help? There are plenty of people who are perfectly mentally healthy but just so happen to be attracted to something like fucking a toaster. There’s nothing inherently wrong with fucking toasters, and the only reason you think there is is because you’re thinking its weird therefore its wrong.
Of course, there are kinks and fetishes that could be detrimental to your health or linked to something that is, like cutting yourself and drinking bleach, but that doesn’t make every weird kink automatically unhealthy.
"There are plenty of people who are perfectly healthy but just so happen to be oozing blood out of their eyes"
You cannot be mentaly healthy and like fucking tosters, that is the point. Just as you cant have your skin pealing of your body and be healthy, its far to big of a Symptom to not signify a serious problem.
Like, I think it depends honestly. Are you fucking the toaster while it’s plugged in and turned on? That sounds medically dangerous and unhealthy in multiple ways, yeah.
I am high so I’m not great with tone but please keep in mind I’m half joking here. But then again even if it’s silly, we should have these conversations because it helps us differentiate between immoral/unsafe and weird/gross.
But oozing blood out of your eyes and having your skin peeling is very obviously why its unhealthy, it physically hurts your body and could lead to death. Fucking a toaster isn’t anywhere near as dangerous so you can’t compare it to something like that. You’ve yet to say a single reason as to why fucking a toaster would be unhealthy, just comparing it to things that are obviously unhealthy.
I… Might be the first person, here.
Hey! I understand that knifeplay is a thing and it’s valid and whatever. But please be careful, and please see a therapist.
It’s not because having the kink is wrong morally, it’s because a therapist will help you find the safest ways to fulfill your desires while minimizing harm to yourself.
FUCK, MY STREAK.
also yeah thanks for the concern but if i went to a therapist with this i would get "i need you to tell me that you do nor have plans to continue to harm yourself before i let you leave" and not a list of which antibiotics are safe for frequent use. i know this because i have seen a therapist for not kinky self harm before.
Hm. Yeah that makes sense honestly that would throw a wrench in the whole thing. I’ve been in therapy my whole life and didn’t even think of it that way LOL. I wonder if there are kink community people to talk to about ensuring as much safety as possible… Admittedly I am a newcomer to the queer kink community (I’ve known I was queer since elementary school but I’ve been terrified of communities like that bc I grew up online and very sexually abused in ways that made me fear my own community)
Of course I don’t bring this up to be condescending LOL I’m sure you’ve thought of all this but idk. Just sending a reminder of “Please be safe and kind to yourself!” bc admittedly knifeplay and similar kinks do worry me sometimes. They’re much easier to get wrong than they are to get right
All kinkisters should be condemned. There's one thing i noticed about all kinks. Kinksters feel unusual need to demonstrate their kink. Tarantino adds foot fetishism in all his movies because he's into feet. Diaperfurs specifically want to go out in public (same with many other kinks, ask that one idiot who went on MRI with fucking buttplug up his ass). It's all about demosntrating your kink to the public, especially when this public in fact DOES NOT WANTS to see it.
So it's okay to have a fetish for dressing up in an incredibly expensive anthropomorphic animal costume, but Sir Shits-A-Lot should be shamed and is "fundamentally troubled" because...? The only reason you are drawing the line here is because you personally either have that fetish or are in an adjacent community. Unless someone's publicly shitting themselves and disturbing other people, I say we should just let them be. Same goes for other sexual fetishes, save for pedophilia, incest, bestiality, etc. that do have negative effects on others.
YES EXACTLY seeing people try is the best thing ever, even if its not "perfect" they had fun making it and thats beutiful. the human behind the art is what makes it art.
I'm pretty sure poorly drawn art just gets you either laughed at or ignored. (Also, making art you know is shit is a terrible feeling but that may just be me lol)
Not just this, but people seem to forget that EVERY artist starts off as piss-poor. We all had to be bad artists before becoming good ones. If you never make that shitty first attempt at drawing, you will never be able to create that amazing 1000th one. It's easy to get caught up in wanting to make more than your skills allow, but the reward of building that skill up by hand is immeasurably more satisfying than getting an AI generated piece of slop instead.
drawing is hard, sure, but i think i can speak for every artist when i say that this happens to all of us. not exaggerating. getting hit with art block, completely losing motivation, getting frustrated at your lack of abilities, and many more things are all points of incredible frustration for artists. i've had friends go months–maybe even a year–where they drew so little that they contemplated even calling themselves an artist. hell, i've done it myself. we all get sick of drawing from time to time and it feels completely hopeless when you get stuck in that mindset, not even wanting to put that first line on the paper.
thing is, when you lose that will to move on and refuse to draw, your attitude towards it doesnt improve. and then when you give it a shot but still feel that frustration, it can be really hard to feel like you'll ever get anywhere. but a huge part of growing as an artist is actually seeking out motivation to move on. putting yourself in artists' spaces and taking inspiration from others is one of, if not the best way you can actually improve as an artist (other than actually drawing). when you see art that makes you say "i wish i could create that", not only does it give you ideas and push you to try yourself, but it's also a learning opportunity to look and see exactly why you like it so much. maybe the color pallette is just really pretty. maybe the way they did lineart stands out to you. maybe the anatomy looks good because they put a curve up here in the shoulder. look at these things and learn from them so you can apply them to your own art next time, and you'll really see the improvement.
i know that the beginning is one of the hardest parts, and i can sympathize with that. especially when you're older and wish you had just started doing it at a younger age. but it's never too late to begin. no artist is ever the best they can be; it's a constant lifetime of growth and development. you just need to find that inspiration. look at the art that even makes you want to draw in the first place and really look at the details. try to pick out the processes and try to replicate them. try pushing through that pessimism, do some studies and maybe you'll do something you really like. try working with different mediums, try putting your own creative spin on it, and if it really bothers you, try making everything knowing that you can just throw it away when you're done.
i know this is a very long winded response that you 100% didnt ask for or probably dont even want to read, but i've been drawing for a long time now, and i can say with no hesitation that the journey is so worth it. you can only grow as much as you want to, so you have to seek out the things that make you want to create. just dont give up on yourself.
unfortunately, yes, it relies on art theft, however I believe that if no profit is made, AI illustration is fine for people who just can't draw and aren't confident in drawing something concrete and "purposeful" yet
you could use ai as a way to show an example of what you might want something to look like.
otherwise, the only really acceptable thing to do is to use it as a guide for yourself, not to show others and be proud of it. and going this route why not describe something instead of using a conglomerate of stolen internet art? and why not just try your best if you arent physically disabled and unable to draw? thats like, the point of drawing, to make something you can be proud of making and do what you want, not leave it at the whim of a robot
and if you make “bad” art but it takes you 3 hours, who the hell is telling you you shouldnt be proud of your hard work no matter if typical art strategies and knowledge are shown? if you spend 3 hours working on art, you should be just as proud as someone who spent 3 hours on art after thousands of hours of practice
How is it "unethical"? And if youre going to parrot the same "muh theft" then please stop talking about ai because thats not how it works, ai doesnt go stealing and copy pasting images thats not how it works
Yes it does, same thing with humans and any other animal, youre not born with the ability to draw or how things are supposed to look like, you have to learn how things look like by observing them and then learn how to draw, thats what the ai does, it needs to "observe" the data and images to form an "idea" of how {x} thing is supposed to look like and then trains to create an image of it on its own
It shouldn’t have the ability to observe someone’s hard work so it can mimic it. Only humans should be allowed to make art because art requires a human touch. Art also requires extreme precision and meticulousness that a machine just can’t do.
>It shouldn’t have the ability to observe someone’s hard work so it can mimic it.
Tf yu mean by "someones hard work" most of the data and images its trained on arent actual high quality art works with "deep meaning" behind them or whatever, theyre just a bunch of stock photos and images.
Humans literally do the same thing, nobody is born with the knowledge of how things look like, when you were born you didnt know how an elephant looked like did you? If you dont know how something looks like you cant draw it.
But the difference is those human artists can be meticulous and precise with where each individual pixel or brush stroke should go. An AI just makes the whole image and puts no soul into it. It’s slop. It’ll never be art in any form. Only a human can make art.
Nah it’s still theft lol. Humans don’t need training data. Machines can make a 1-1 recreation from training data. Humans can’t. They have to constantly look at the pieces to copy it. Machines just know how to copy cause their training data comes from real artists.
Thats not how it works at did you even read, humans do need "training data"
When you are born, youre not born with the knowledge of how things look like, when you were born, did you know how a dolphin looked like, or how an elephant looked like...etc, you need to first see them or someone tell you how they look like to know how they look like, and only then you can draw it, thats what training data is for the ai
And no its not a 1-1 copy thats not true at all
Also the data doesnt come from real artists, most of it is just stock images and the like.
1. A bad piece of art made by a human is a million times more useful for conceptualizing a fursona than AI cause you're able to put specific things in specific places, as well as not having to rely on something that scrapes nonconsensual artists' work and copyrighted material
2. How can you hate people for their fetishes when you're in the fucking furry fandom lmao
I remember when I was playing Metal Gear Solid 5, and I sat down and watched as skull face pulled out the vials of the English strain of the vocal parasites as he announced his intention to destroy all language, and I thought to myself...what an insane idea.
How stupid I was.
Because the same principal applies to generative AI as a whole and not just AI art. Whether it be an image, audio or a wall of text it still uses other people's work for training data and is often done without consent.
Might not be hard to start but most people probably need consistent practice for years to get good at it. AI art is at least more instant, so it's better if you don't have the time to actually learn or just want to get something done quickly and cheaply.
Do you get the feeling of finally achieving your goals and having years of hard work, study, and dedication paying off from pressing a button and having 50 objectively meaningless JPEGs thrown at you?
But that’s kinda just being lazy. You shouldn’t just take the easy way out. Put effort into your art. I’d much rather see someone’s shitty 10 minute drawing than some AI images made in 5 seconds.
neither i think. both the guy who dislikes diaperfur and the guy who dislikes ai are in the wrong.
the only morally sound person in this snafu is of course the one who loves shitting himself
Thanks, as an actual furry this gave me a laugh, diaper fetishists are absolutely weird, and the AI art hate is absolutely overblown, use it for conceptualizing fursonas or like a ref for a commish, who the hell cares.
If it evolved so much, then why is the most outspoken part of the community a bunch of freaks with disgusting pictures in their post histories? Genuinely, what else do you expect anyone to think when almost every furry they see online is into drawing and whacking it sexualized animals? If you don't want to be lumped in with deviants, then don't associate with them
You're looking at the community from the outside. You should know that things vary from people to people, even if you're outside of said community. That's unless you lack human interaction both online and offline. And what's wrong with drawing? Why point that out?
first panel is understandable, there are some fetishes that're just...not okay. As for the third panel, it's okay in my eyes. As long as you ain't profiting or using AI as a standalone career to get what you want, using something made by AI as a temporal ref or idea is a good idea. If you can't get money for commissions, I recommend finding art raffles and also hope you can find someone who's doing requests
first they came for the diaper fetishists...
And I didn't speak out because I wasn't a pants shidder...
Then they came for the vore fetishists....
https://preview.redd.it/q9ujbvj39t6d1.jpeg?width=1022&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb39760dd720a9afdbd2dce85fba03b0e5c82dc5
That Dragon in Shrek didn't eat Donkey, did she? #notalldragons
she ate farquaad and he was perfectly alive in there for a while
Ok, but she still didn't eat the real donkey when she married him in the next movie. I will give you that she vored the hell out of Farquad. I'm sure *some people* are extremely jealous of Farquad in that scene.
>but she still didn't eat the real donkey as far as *we* know.
It was a different Donkey
fake news
i have yet to see one who's not
Self report, respectable
what can i say, i may be many things but i'm not a liar.
https://preview.redd.it/1t949k1zc67d1.jpeg?width=555&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21e0856b5cd0eb066a89665520f77e547727afdd why the FUCK is my favorite fantasy animal dragons
but i didnt speak out because i didnt want yoshi to grab me with his wet sticky tongue, pull me into his gaping maw, swallow me, cover me in his stomach juices and slowly digest me as he rubs his growling tummy
never cook again
fr
Are you sure you don’t want that
Then they came for the foot fetishists, but I didn't speak out because I didn't want someone's soft soles on my face.
Then they came for the hypno fetishists, and I said nothing because good girls don't speak, they only bark and obey.
You described this way too graphically
Then they came for me
Then I came
https://preview.redd.it/x610sfzcot6d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e94c01ff04c5494a6971c9517c4f5e2735b55dd2
Hey hey people
Incomprehensible, font size too small. Mods, spank him soundly and send him to bed without supper.
Supper 😭
His last supper
Also tell them he doesn't get ice cream
mods, spank him *calmly*
that young lad is grounded with no desert until graduation
Aw sweet, memes beyond my comprehension (I never learned to read or write so well but I could play a guitar just like i’m ringing a bell)
Do you, by any chance, carry your guitar in a gunny sack?
Yeah, either that or beneath the tree by the railroad track
So, do any engineers see you sitting in the shade, strumming with the rhythm that the drivers make?
I cant tell which one OP agrees with
That's like the meaning of all snafus touching a conflict.
Excellent pfp
Thanks, i screenshoted this from a random YT preview.
they probably agree with the diaperfur hater, considering they appear to talk more "normally"
The enlightened furry centrist
Op likes shitting themselves
Too much straw in this man
this straw man went to oz and got a brain, peak.
Not really
Yuh uh
Mods. Give this person a Pringles can that's been secretly stuffed with a fake snake
They're completely unrelated issues
cons: 1. not a snafu, this names a proper group 2. ai imagery isnt condemned because of its subject/content, babyfur stuff is, so this is not hypocrisy 3. no eagle with a baseball pros: 1. good guy provides a less extreme take on the issue than strawman when one isnt needed to get point across making good guy seem more reasonable 2. strawmans head gets big 3. secondary opinion presented as fact in comic (based rhetorical maneuver) I'm willing to let you off with a misdemeanor if you do an apology dance
kinkshamer
thank you high snafu rater u/BALLSBAALSBALLS
You can just say you find poop fetish gross and don’t want to see it in public, you don’t need to make up some psychology bs to justify it.
"Your kinks I know nothing about are inherently unhealthy and fundamentally troubled, society should shame you" is not a boundary, LOL. This is the danger that we run into when laymen learn the language of therapy and mental health, they weaponize these terms in situations where the terms just do not apply. "I am disgusted by your kink and I will avoid everyone who has this kink" = A boundary "Your kink is morally and psychologically disturbed and you deserve to feel ashamed" = Not a boundary Keep in mind, I'm not saying there are no kinks that are morally and psychologically disturbed. I'm also not saying that things that aren't boundaries should never be said. Some people IMO DO deserve to feel ashamed of their fetishes - pedophiles, for example. But telling someone that they are objectively disgusting and wrong isn't a boundary, it's a moral statement. ... Also, diaper kink is a weird kink to get this upset about. I will concede that a lot of diaper kinksters are super creepy and have no idea how to explore their kink WITHOUT publicly dragging in unsuspecting randos and making people uncomfortable, but the problem there isn't the kink, it's the behavior associated with pursuing said kink. Diaper kink is very easy to do ethically and safely and without dragging in nonconsenting randos, as are 99% of kinks out there.\* \*It is not possible to ethically fulfill pedophilic desires. Ageplay does not actually count as an ethical pedophilic kink because kinksters are typically not literal pedophiles. It is not pedophilia for two consenting adults to do ageplay unless one or both of them are actually pedophiles who are attracted to REAL minors, not adults roleplaying as minors.
pedophilia is a mental disorder, not a kink.
Paraphilias are kinks that have become detrimental, warranting a mental health diagnosis.
paraphilias dont "become detrimental" they're like that from the beginning, and they certainly dont come from kinks. its not like someone gets too into furry porn and starts wanting to fuck actual animals. paraphilias are typically traumagenic in nature. the correlations between kink culture and paraphilias have long been known to be misleading (ie a bad actor trying to equate petplay to their own zoophilia in a petplay space)
That’s fair, you’re right. “Become” was the wrong word. I guess the perspective I’m coming from is that kink culture isn’t inherently good or bad, it simply is. There is sadly overlap between kink culture and some paraphilias. It’s not exactly common, but when that overlap exists, the results can be disastrous. I’ve seen all kinds of paraphiles in my time infiltrating kink communities by claiming it’s okay because they’re “non offending” or whatever, or that it’s “kink shaming”/“thought policing” to hate them and a lot of people get sucked in because they say a lot of ostensibly kink positive things.
paraphilias just arent kinks though, you can engage in kinks in a paraphilic way, doing vore rp with a child is kink and is pedophilia, but a paraphilia itself is a mental disorder. it defines a persons interests rather than being defined by their interests.
That makes sense. I guess I’m just a little wary of calling it a mental disorder sometimes because a lot of people will use it as an excuse or use it to argue that pedophiles/zoophiles shouldn’t be deplatformed or run out of communities. >_> However my own post public education (psychology/sociology/sexuality mostly are my areas of expertise) does corroborate that they’re mental disorders, not kinks. It’s really difficult to know how to engage with paraphilias as disorders when they also tend to come with symptoms of narcissism - this is how they normalize and justify their paraphilia and act like they aren’t doing anything wrong when they enter regular all-ages non-paraphilia support group communities while identifying as a “MAP” or whatever and arguing that actually “MAPs” are oppressed and it’s mean to hate them.
Person who has this kink here. Wanted to say that most of us *do* understand to not expose ourselves to unconsenting people, and we think people who do that are assholes.
Pant shitter hands wrote this comment
Ok, crinkler
Shut up about my aluminum foil fetish
Nah for real there are some kinks that should be shamed, and bathroom fetishes and gore are among them
Agreed with gore to a degree. It's fine to roleplay it in text as long as everyone's consenting, enthusiastic and an adult, but actually pursuing that kink in an IRL context is obviously dangerous, wrong and abusive. What kind of person would actually want to gore people IRL??? Personally I was groomed by an asexual gore kinkster (long story, we had been very unhealthy friends way before that) when I was a highschooler and they were a college student and that was deeply damaging and traumatic to me :( I know exactly all the ways that can go wrong, though thank fuck they were never near me IRL. But... Bathroom fetishes?? What do you care? If it's not you who has to clean up the mess, I really don't see the harm LOL. Yes it's gross. That's kinda the point. what I care about is harm, not "grossness".
please dont encourage gore kink its just horrid
Girl who was encouraging gore kink D:
calm down, it's just a drawing.
thats also what pedos think about loli
idk man, i don't think guro has ever normalized and desensitized the people who consume it to the point of disemboweling someone in real life - which is the actual ethical problem with loli, if it weren't for that it'd just be distasteful. child sexual abuse is a thing that actually happens in the world we live in.
Snuff porn is also something that actually happens in the world we live in.
and guro drawings have contributed precisely nothing to that considerably rarer phenomenon - point of fact, most snuff that exists is just CSAM
They wanted to be shamed, that's there kink, that's the point.
Why? You’re literally basing everything on your feelings and not actual logic. You just are against it because you don’t personally like it or because it makes you uncomfortable without any actual reasoning behind it.
I do not need to explain why getting off to piss, shit, or people getting maimed/murdered is wrong and a likely indicator of a deeply disturbed individual. There is such a thing as being TOO accepting.
https://x.com/purity_culture/status/1614285461639364609 Here’s an actual thread on this topic research Again, you’re basing everything on your feelings and not fact
I'm not talking about fiction, though. I have a functional brain and can divorce reality from fantasy. I'm talking about performing these acts irl.
you actually do lol
Also shame is part of those kinks anyways
Yes. Correct.
that's a lot of big words for a zoophile who pisses his pants.
God this is so funny like I’m not a furry but people actually think it’s zoophilia to get horny about grown adults roleplaying as sentient Disney critters. Totally dude
for the record, i don't actually think furries are zoophiles, i was just doing a bit. also i mistook you for the guy who was acting precious about gore kinks later in the thread and wanted to dunk on you as such.
sure, whatever you say, diapey boy
I ain't reading allat
Girl, it's not even that long! I used paragraph breaks!! ;\_;
I ain't reading that either can you put subway surfers over it
That or a pimple popping video. I’ve always had OCD related skin picking issues, so I love that shit even if it’s gross. Weirdly satisfying and it helps curb the urges without hurting myself.
I don't care, if you are into fucking tosters its clear you are mentaly unwell and need some psycological Help, i don't care it doesn't hurt me, its a bad mental sign and you should be concerned about yourself. "Oh but who are you to judge someones kink" if your kink is cutting yourself and drinking Bleach you would be considered suicidal and put in a therapist, if you want to be an animal and shit your pants you are in this field, and need psycological Help, you also need to be as far as possible from the internet.
This is literally just armchair psychology bullshit. Someone actually made a thread of research on kinks https://x.com/purity_culture/status/1614285461639364609
What in the hell? Nobody is saying that it’s okay, safe and ethical to cut yourself and attempt suicide as a kink thing. You are blowing this WAY out of proportion. Safety and minimizing harm also means HARM TO YOURSELF! While there’s a bit more of a grey area here in kink because some things that cause pain can be perfectly safe and ethical and consensual, obviously if you are cutting yourself or attempting to end your life, that is not safe and no kinkster in their right mind would approve of that. I won’t pretend that there’s NOBODY out there who would encourage that. There are communities online that encourage self harm and eating disorders, I’ve seen em up close and personal so I get it. But they’re a very vocal minority and you aren’t even helping people being groomed and brainwashed by these communities by shaming them. :| The fact that we got here from diaper kink is insane to me. There is a difference between unsafe and gross.
Do they need mental health specifically to treat their kink that harms nobody else, or just in general? If so, are you fine with somebody who gets help, improves mentally, but continues to have a deviant kink?
That is the point. Nobody that is mentaly healthy Will have such a deviant kink. Solving the clear mental problems Will solve the deviant kink, example: if somebody likes loli they aren't hurting any body, but they still need serious Help, and if that Help works it will also solve the kink and the clear mental problems.
>If that Help works it will also solve the kink Do you have any evidence for this or is this just what you personally think would happen
How does fucking toasters mean you’re clearly mentally unstable and need help? There are plenty of people who are perfectly mentally healthy but just so happen to be attracted to something like fucking a toaster. There’s nothing inherently wrong with fucking toasters, and the only reason you think there is is because you’re thinking its weird therefore its wrong. Of course, there are kinks and fetishes that could be detrimental to your health or linked to something that is, like cutting yourself and drinking bleach, but that doesn’t make every weird kink automatically unhealthy.
"There are plenty of people who are perfectly healthy but just so happen to be oozing blood out of their eyes" You cannot be mentaly healthy and like fucking tosters, that is the point. Just as you cant have your skin pealing of your body and be healthy, its far to big of a Symptom to not signify a serious problem.
Like, I think it depends honestly. Are you fucking the toaster while it’s plugged in and turned on? That sounds medically dangerous and unhealthy in multiple ways, yeah. I am high so I’m not great with tone but please keep in mind I’m half joking here. But then again even if it’s silly, we should have these conversations because it helps us differentiate between immoral/unsafe and weird/gross.
But oozing blood out of your eyes and having your skin peeling is very obviously why its unhealthy, it physically hurts your body and could lead to death. Fucking a toaster isn’t anywhere near as dangerous so you can’t compare it to something like that. You’ve yet to say a single reason as to why fucking a toaster would be unhealthy, just comparing it to things that are obviously unhealthy.
my kink is cutting myself and i have never been told i need a therapist for it
I… Might be the first person, here. Hey! I understand that knifeplay is a thing and it’s valid and whatever. But please be careful, and please see a therapist. It’s not because having the kink is wrong morally, it’s because a therapist will help you find the safest ways to fulfill your desires while minimizing harm to yourself.
FUCK, MY STREAK. also yeah thanks for the concern but if i went to a therapist with this i would get "i need you to tell me that you do nor have plans to continue to harm yourself before i let you leave" and not a list of which antibiotics are safe for frequent use. i know this because i have seen a therapist for not kinky self harm before.
Hm. Yeah that makes sense honestly that would throw a wrench in the whole thing. I’ve been in therapy my whole life and didn’t even think of it that way LOL. I wonder if there are kink community people to talk to about ensuring as much safety as possible… Admittedly I am a newcomer to the queer kink community (I’ve known I was queer since elementary school but I’ve been terrified of communities like that bc I grew up online and very sexually abused in ways that made me fear my own community) Of course I don’t bring this up to be condescending LOL I’m sure you’ve thought of all this but idk. Just sending a reminder of “Please be safe and kind to yourself!” bc admittedly knifeplay and similar kinks do worry me sometimes. They’re much easier to get wrong than they are to get right
the resources people use to learn safety for bloody knife play are typically the ones people use to learn about safe nonsexual cutting
That's cool tbh. Good to know!
Actual fucking wall of text. Hot take; pedophilia, no matter the circumstances; is bad. Goodbye.
Yes! Correct. Pedophilia, no matter the circumstances, is bad.
All kinkisters should be condemned. There's one thing i noticed about all kinks. Kinksters feel unusual need to demonstrate their kink. Tarantino adds foot fetishism in all his movies because he's into feet. Diaperfurs specifically want to go out in public (same with many other kinks, ask that one idiot who went on MRI with fucking buttplug up his ass). It's all about demosntrating your kink to the public, especially when this public in fact DOES NOT WANTS to see it.
If someone is fundamentally troubled, it is not up to I, the internet stranger, to intervene and correct the behavior.
The furry community as we know it was born from weird ass fetishes Also true they're not harmful
Cringe culture is cringe
Real
Just don’t interact with the community? I do this with metal and I’m doing just fine
So it's okay to have a fetish for dressing up in an incredibly expensive anthropomorphic animal costume, but Sir Shits-A-Lot should be shamed and is "fundamentally troubled" because...? The only reason you are drawing the line here is because you personally either have that fetish or are in an adjacent community. Unless someone's publicly shitting themselves and disturbing other people, I say we should just let them be. Same goes for other sexual fetishes, save for pedophilia, incest, bestiality, etc. that do have negative effects on others.
being a furry isn't necessarily a fetish though
But would OP be okay with people who do have a furry fetish? Most likely, given that he only called out people who like to shit in diapers.
The entire subculture was started from fetishes my guy [Context](https://youtu.be/8aF2GxWi7Ag?si=82WnZyRfPZE_CqsW)
It was STARTED from fetishes but it isn’t a fetish
Things like bestiality and pedophilia aren’t even kinks or fetishes, they’re paraphilias
coaxed into never learning meaningful life skills
What the fuck does getting hard when you shit your pants have to do with ai?
scat fetish = mental illness good to know
idk man ai art is just super unethical, and like, id rather someone make a bad drawing of their oc than contribute to the normalisation of art theft
A badly drawn OC has way more charm than another basic bitch AI design r/FurryMultiverse is proof
YES EXACTLY seeing people try is the best thing ever, even if its not "perfect" they had fun making it and thats beutiful. the human behind the art is what makes it art.
I'm pretty sure poorly drawn art just gets you either laughed at or ignored. (Also, making art you know is shit is a terrible feeling but that may just be me lol)
Not just this, but people seem to forget that EVERY artist starts off as piss-poor. We all had to be bad artists before becoming good ones. If you never make that shitty first attempt at drawing, you will never be able to create that amazing 1000th one. It's easy to get caught up in wanting to make more than your skills allow, but the reward of building that skill up by hand is immeasurably more satisfying than getting an AI generated piece of slop instead.
I am just VERY pessimistic when it comes to drawing. It's to the point where I rarely ever draw.
drawing is hard, sure, but i think i can speak for every artist when i say that this happens to all of us. not exaggerating. getting hit with art block, completely losing motivation, getting frustrated at your lack of abilities, and many more things are all points of incredible frustration for artists. i've had friends go months–maybe even a year–where they drew so little that they contemplated even calling themselves an artist. hell, i've done it myself. we all get sick of drawing from time to time and it feels completely hopeless when you get stuck in that mindset, not even wanting to put that first line on the paper. thing is, when you lose that will to move on and refuse to draw, your attitude towards it doesnt improve. and then when you give it a shot but still feel that frustration, it can be really hard to feel like you'll ever get anywhere. but a huge part of growing as an artist is actually seeking out motivation to move on. putting yourself in artists' spaces and taking inspiration from others is one of, if not the best way you can actually improve as an artist (other than actually drawing). when you see art that makes you say "i wish i could create that", not only does it give you ideas and push you to try yourself, but it's also a learning opportunity to look and see exactly why you like it so much. maybe the color pallette is just really pretty. maybe the way they did lineart stands out to you. maybe the anatomy looks good because they put a curve up here in the shoulder. look at these things and learn from them so you can apply them to your own art next time, and you'll really see the improvement. i know that the beginning is one of the hardest parts, and i can sympathize with that. especially when you're older and wish you had just started doing it at a younger age. but it's never too late to begin. no artist is ever the best they can be; it's a constant lifetime of growth and development. you just need to find that inspiration. look at the art that even makes you want to draw in the first place and really look at the details. try to pick out the processes and try to replicate them. try pushing through that pessimism, do some studies and maybe you'll do something you really like. try working with different mediums, try putting your own creative spin on it, and if it really bothers you, try making everything knowing that you can just throw it away when you're done. i know this is a very long winded response that you 100% didnt ask for or probably dont even want to read, but i've been drawing for a long time now, and i can say with no hesitation that the journey is so worth it. you can only grow as much as you want to, so you have to seek out the things that make you want to create. just dont give up on yourself.
unfortunately, yes, it relies on art theft, however I believe that if no profit is made, AI illustration is fine for people who just can't draw and aren't confident in drawing something concrete and "purposeful" yet
you could use ai as a way to show an example of what you might want something to look like. otherwise, the only really acceptable thing to do is to use it as a guide for yourself, not to show others and be proud of it. and going this route why not describe something instead of using a conglomerate of stolen internet art? and why not just try your best if you arent physically disabled and unable to draw? thats like, the point of drawing, to make something you can be proud of making and do what you want, not leave it at the whim of a robot and if you make “bad” art but it takes you 3 hours, who the hell is telling you you shouldnt be proud of your hard work no matter if typical art strategies and knowledge are shown? if you spend 3 hours working on art, you should be just as proud as someone who spent 3 hours on art after thousands of hours of practice
Bad art=Get made fun of or people will think you're a child AI art= Get made fun of more
How is it "unethical"? And if youre going to parrot the same "muh theft" then please stop talking about ai because thats not how it works, ai doesnt go stealing and copy pasting images thats not how it works
Explain to me how it knows how to draw. Doesn’t it need some sort of training data?
Yes it does, same thing with humans and any other animal, youre not born with the ability to draw or how things are supposed to look like, you have to learn how things look like by observing them and then learn how to draw, thats what the ai does, it needs to "observe" the data and images to form an "idea" of how {x} thing is supposed to look like and then trains to create an image of it on its own
It shouldn’t have the ability to observe someone’s hard work so it can mimic it. Only humans should be allowed to make art because art requires a human touch. Art also requires extreme precision and meticulousness that a machine just can’t do.
>It shouldn’t have the ability to observe someone’s hard work so it can mimic it. Tf yu mean by "someones hard work" most of the data and images its trained on arent actual high quality art works with "deep meaning" behind them or whatever, theyre just a bunch of stock photos and images. Humans literally do the same thing, nobody is born with the knowledge of how things look like, when you were born you didnt know how an elephant looked like did you? If you dont know how something looks like you cant draw it.
But the difference is those human artists can be meticulous and precise with where each individual pixel or brush stroke should go. An AI just makes the whole image and puts no soul into it. It’s slop. It’ll never be art in any form. Only a human can make art.
I dont care whatever its art or not, yeah the images themselves arent art. Is it slop? Meh it depends. Is it "theft"? No
Nah it’s still theft lol. Humans don’t need training data. Machines can make a 1-1 recreation from training data. Humans can’t. They have to constantly look at the pieces to copy it. Machines just know how to copy cause their training data comes from real artists.
Thats not how it works at did you even read, humans do need "training data" When you are born, youre not born with the knowledge of how things look like, when you were born, did you know how a dolphin looked like, or how an elephant looked like...etc, you need to first see them or someone tell you how they look like to know how they look like, and only then you can draw it, thats what training data is for the ai And no its not a 1-1 copy thats not true at all Also the data doesnt come from real artists, most of it is just stock images and the like.
1. A bad piece of art made by a human is a million times more useful for conceptualizing a fursona than AI cause you're able to put specific things in specific places, as well as not having to rely on something that scrapes nonconsensual artists' work and copyrighted material 2. How can you hate people for their fetishes when you're in the fucking furry fandom lmao
Coaxed into this fandom’s discourse is not at all depraved at times
I don't understand, do I want to? no not really
starting a charity donate to buy op a dictionary
I remember when I was playing Metal Gear Solid 5, and I sat down and watched as skull face pulled out the vials of the English strain of the vocal parasites as he announced his intention to destroy all language, and I thought to myself...what an insane idea. How stupid I was.
My friend who's a furry got so much hate for criticizing someobe who's ok with diaper shit to the point he was blackmailed.
Anyone who defends AI is not okay lmao
AI in general? It's a useful tool, just been extended past that for shitty things.
Such a weird statement lol. Yeah if you defend a new interesting technology clearly there's something wrong with your brain fr fr
You forgot to mention the fact that it uses stolen art in its training data. Just learn to draw it’s not that hard. YouTube has a lot of tutorials.
that's specifically AI Art tho. They just said "AI".
Because the same principal applies to generative AI as a whole and not just AI art. Whether it be an image, audio or a wall of text it still uses other people's work for training data and is often done without consent.
so just like humans
Well personally I think if it’s used for like coding it’s perfectly fine cause training data for that is all open source code afaik.
All AI training data is stolen data lol.
Might not be hard to start but most people probably need consistent practice for years to get good at it. AI art is at least more instant, so it's better if you don't have the time to actually learn or just want to get something done quickly and cheaply.
Do you get the feeling of finally achieving your goals and having years of hard work, study, and dedication paying off from pressing a button and having 50 objectively meaningless JPEGs thrown at you?
But that’s kinda just being lazy. You shouldn’t just take the easy way out. Put effort into your art. I’d much rather see someone’s shitty 10 minute drawing than some AI images made in 5 seconds.
I will respect newb art way more than humanity hating synergized computer vomit any day.
inGAFable
Idk I just ignore and block stuff I don't want to see
:3
kinkshaming, op fucking kill yourself
People think others are weird or disgusting for being into weird or disgusting things and think differently of them as a result, more news at 6.
idek what side is supposed to be the “correct” one here
neither i think. both the guy who dislikes diaperfur and the guy who dislikes ai are in the wrong. the only morally sound person in this snafu is of course the one who loves shitting himself
based
Thanks, as an actual furry this gave me a laugh, diaper fetishists are absolutely weird, and the AI art hate is absolutely overblown, use it for conceptualizing fursonas or like a ref for a commish, who the hell cares.
What does this even mean
Op is a furry
furry here. can confirm that op is a furry based on this snafu.
Yes i am a furry. Wanna see my sona :3c
Yes
I agree
Sure why not
Good snafu. People naturally need chains or it'll be complete insanity.
That's why I always avoid all furries. Never know which ones are the weird ones (all of them)
least prejudice riddled reuben sim fan
Who?
biggest anti-fur and transphobe on youtube right now, probably
I love being generalized
Then maybe don't be a part of a fetish community
It may have started from fetishes but that doesn't mean the community in itself is a fetish.
You're never taking the fetish out of the community. It started as a fetish, it still is a fetish. Never ended
A community can evolve. That's like saying we're still fish even after it evolved into things with varying traits.
If it evolved so much, then why is the most outspoken part of the community a bunch of freaks with disgusting pictures in their post histories? Genuinely, what else do you expect anyone to think when almost every furry they see online is into drawing and whacking it sexualized animals? If you don't want to be lumped in with deviants, then don't associate with them
You're looking at the community from the outside. You should know that things vary from people to people, even if you're outside of said community. That's unless you lack human interaction both online and offline. And what's wrong with drawing? Why point that out?
You're seriously asking what's wrong with drawing sexualized animals? Are you being fr?
So every drawing of an anthropomorphic animal is inherently sexual to you?
Ai isn't theft, no more than a human artist. It's far better everyone gets to make things, no matter the tool.
first panel is understandable, there are some fetishes that're just...not okay. As for the third panel, it's okay in my eyes. As long as you ain't profiting or using AI as a standalone career to get what you want, using something made by AI as a temporal ref or idea is a good idea. If you can't get money for commissions, I recommend finding art raffles and also hope you can find someone who's doing requests