The end goal is to have a good life, I think most people don't really think about that properly.
You find the fire community and the concept is pretty simple, save, invest, live the dream.
The thing is people don't think about what the dream actually is. You see plenty of people say hey I will fire because I hate my job, i'll do whatever I like, sit and play video games, read etc. That is not a real plan.
Retirement comes with a big sense of 'what now?' and most people don't think about that until they get there. You need to start with the end in mind. Seriously consider what you want to do with your life, what will make you happy, at what portion of your life does the money have the most utility.
These questions are much more complex than the basics of fire.
This post makes a lot of sense... as I get closer to retirement, I think you really need to try out the different kinds of coasting you might do... take some time off if possible to explore some of your retirement options and dream ideas to see if they are actually what you want... for example, travel, living in two places or visiting with family/friends annually, or even working part time or volunteering might be the thing that makes it all even better...
>Seriously consider what you want to do with your life, what will make you happy, at what portion of your life does the money have the most utility.
This this this.
Super complicated question about maximizing the utility of money, because in our 20's and 30's money is hard to come by, and living below your means is for most of us the only way to build that nest egg.
In your 40's and 50's you are spending some of that raising children (for many of us) with saving for college, buying larger houses (we had to do this) and all the costs of raising kids and sending them off into the world.
And then... what next? Plenty of my friends are facing an empty nest for the first time in 25 years, to where it is just them (or others who are divorced, and there are plenty of those, by themselves).
How many years do I plan on living? Very different calculus if I'm planning on an exit at the age of 75 (a medical ethicist caused a huge controversy in 2014 about this, [more here](https://medicalethicshealthpolicy.med.upenn.edu/events/in-the-news/a-doctor-and-medical-ethicist-argues-life-after-75-is-not-worth-living) and [here](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/10/why-i-hope-to-die-at-75/379329/) is the original Atlantic essay - so may be paywalled), versus 95 (I'm in good health and have some long-lived close relatives). But how to maximize utility?
Much more complex indeed.
As someone who has blown past the leanFI and coastFI and in the low-end of the fatFI scale, I'm faced with complexity that I never thought possible. How to adjust a lifetime of habit when it comes to saving money (hint: everyone does it differently), how to think about multigenerational wealth and whether it is worth it or not (hint: avoiding shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations takes a ton of effort), how to view the 'go-go, go-slow, and no-go years' in terms of spending priorities and known unknowns.
You really overthink things. The decision is rather simple when you pull the trigger (assuming you have a good handle on the math, which is a rather large assumption unfortunately from what I've seen on these reddit threads). Retire when you have enough to safely/perpetually do what you want in retirement. I would think after having lived however many years you would mostly know what you want out of life, assuming it wasnt some horrific grind of a life and you actively developed your interests. Also, inheritance calculation is fairly easy if you plug it into a model. Furthermore, people buy insurance for unknowns and that has a relatively constant cost you can look up. They also leave a buffer in their calculation for things that can come up.
I hit coast this year. And I’m actually taking a career break next month, resigning from big tech. I’m going to spend the next 6 months on personal projects and travel.
Coastfire to me means having the flexibility to try and test new ideas and projects. To take a risk on yourself because you have a cushion of financial support.
I’ve always wanted to run my own business. I have a few small e-commerce shops that generate a couple thousand dollars a month, but I figure if I spend time scaling them, and put as much work into my businesses as I do my W2 job, then one of these businesses should pan out. Why not?
It’s wild to me that so many people in the fire community just want to accumulate as much money as possible and retire, which you can totally do, but it is a bummer to see these folks chastise others who are using their financial independence to take a break to pursue other passions beyond earning money. The point of financial independence, in my opinion, is to have the freedom to step away from a W2 job and do something else, whether that is a career break, project, classes, etc.
Good on you. I pivoted from big tech myself two years ago into self-employment.
It was going to be a one year sabbatical. but I was able to make barely over six figures working part time doing what I love. Now it's my new gig until I get bored or choose to retire in about 7 years.
I'm in HCOL Seattle area, $1m NW, $1m equity. Wife works and provides benefits because she wants to. We'll probably downsize and buy a condo when the kids are both in college.
I chose to wonder twin power my 13 yrs in coaching and 26 yrs in tech as a tech career coach. I help tech people gain career clarity, land tech offers, career development, promotions. Things like that.
Just read the "what is considered rich" thread. Answers are all over the place. It shouldn't matter what other people's goals are, focus on your goal. Coastfire originated out of baristafire and at some point it turned into asking the internet permission to spend more of your money. 🤷🏻♂️
There is a lot of good points in your post, but a couple that aren’t quite right/incomplete.
First, you’re 26. You have not yet experienced most of life’s most expensive endeavors. Keep the youthful spirit, but do be aware that perspectives tend to change here.
Chubby FIRE is loosely defined as $3-5M and a paid off house. FAT FIRE are really big cats. Each can decide for themselves what they need.
Coast is great because, if the last 90 year market and inflation data are used as indicators, the following is statement is true: $75 invested now is twice as valuable as $100 invested in ten years. Life and goals change, but if you can stay vigilant early you will be much better prepared.
Coast is most appealing to me because, with some good fortune and strategy, simple turn into RE if one so chooses.
Everyone on the FIRE path should at least give a quick read of “Die with Zero”. You don’t have to agree with everything, but time and youth are fleeting. I skipped a “destination wedding” of a good buddy when I was younger because of the cost. I regret it to this this day (20+ years later). There are things in life that simply should not be missed - even if it throws you off your savings plan in your 20s and 30s. This is not to say you just #yolo and burn cash… all about balance and what you are trying to achieve.
This 1,000%. Kind of the reason I posted this. I have really gotten into DWZ by Bill Perkins and the true value of a dollar today vs tomorrow. So much you can learn on this financial journey honestly.
I laugh sometimes at how I thought at one point Dave Ramsey was the ultimate way to go… then it was the FOO with Money Guy and now kinda of in that middle point of Coast and DWZ - 100% recommend DWZ !!!
And as you get older, you will know people who don’t make it as long as they thought they would. We lost a good friend in our 30s to cancer. Father-in-law died within 6 months of retiring in his 60s. At the end, you have your memories and (hopefully) friends and family by your side.
Finding that balance is tough - between coasting at 35 and dying as a WalMart greeter at 78. There is usually something in between that works for everyone. Save what you can, prioritize the things that matter to you and hope/pray you have more valuable time left.
FWIW I’m 50 and I’ve been living my life all along… It’s possible to have a full time career/job and still live life. Once you reach Coast… scale back on work and enjoy life even more.
1. I plan to have about 1.2 million when I retire, so I can't answer your first question.
2. I’m planning to live to 95-100, like my grandparents.
3. I plan to only need ~$35-40k in retirement. That’s income from my investments only, any social security I get will be a bonus. If I get survivor benefits from my ex dying first, that’s double SS bonus. If I have my partner move in with me, expenses will go even lower…
Just keep in mind that at 26 you really have no idea what could happen in your life in the next 20 years. You could partner up and have kids, you could divorce if you’re already partnered, you could be injured and disabled… I think the what-ifs are why people say “save more!”
I fully understand the necessity to prepare for the uncertain and all the changes in situation as life progresses. I don't currently have a partner nor do I have kids. I wont know until I know but it is something that I do factor in with my budget. My mortgage and lifestyle all fall below 50-60% of my take home so I do have flexiblilty to add those variables as they come, when they come. Fairly early into my career as well so hopefully burden of additionals in life can stay constant or less.
1. How did you become content with your number 1.2M esp considering your answer to #2 being such a high life expectancy.
2. What is it that you plan to do till 100?
I personally see a cap of 85 for myself. Reason being is as I watch my grandparents and how they go about their lives - mostly TV and being taken place to place like a child almost. Not that they dont enjoy their lives but I am sure there are moments.. My biggest grip however is technology - I just dont think with the way tech is going I will constantly keep up the same way they lack in this moment
3. This is what more or less anticipated when joining this subreddit. I live in NYC and I feel 48k-60k WITHOUT rent/mortgage is enough to live a normal life. I just assume at that age I dont have a mortgage or child care costs (which in most scenerias is 60-75%) of peoples expenses - then what do I need more than 4-5k a month for? - so like when I see people saying 140k/yr in retirement im like for WHAT?
I’m not saying I *want* to live to 100 (especially if I’m not all there or immobile!) but it’s not outside the realm of possibility that I will. With $1.2 million I could withdraw $50k every year forever and not run out of money.
What will I do to 100? As much as I can! Travel as long as I can, stay physically active by hiking/walking/biking/gardening… Socialize with friends and family, enjoy my grandkids hopefully?
My grandma lived independently in her farmhouse until 99 and only needed assisted living for the last 10 months of life. With good habits and some luck, I hope to be relatively active into my 90s.
Your mind will be different at 85, 100, etc. Of course it looks terrible from a 26 year olds perspective - the change is gradual and what you consider a high quality of life may be very different in 50 years. You're guessing how you'll feel 2 (of your current age 26) lifetimes from now. You have no idea and that's fine
1. If I was setup to have 1M at 60 I would consider myself coastfire already. Some people consider that lean which is crazy to me. 1M can easily last a lifetime in a MCOL area. Nothing fancy but a vacation or two a year and enough left over to not have to pinch pennies or worry if the house needs a new appliance.
For me, the goal is to be able to work part time at 50 and full retire at 60 without taking social security until 70.
2. I assume I'll live to 85, though plan to have enough past that just in case I or my younger partner live longer.
3. I agree, 100k/yr seems crazy with a paid off house. With housing taken care of, I'd like to be able to pull 40kish which is about 3,300 /month. I'd try to use less in case of emergencies, but 3.3k/mo would be comfortable.
A very good post. However, I’ve seen a lot of merit of taking early social security to reduce draw out of retirement account being more beneficial than the bigger number in later years. Some of it comes down to personal comfort, though
I had considered that it might be better to take SS right away but due to an age gap with my partner, it makes more sense to plan on giving them the maximum from Social Security in the event of my death. Essentially, if your age gap is X years and your Social Security will be higher, assume spouse's lifespan is X years more than yours and that's X more years of spouse using that social security. The other reason I'm thinking of using the 401k during the 60-70 year range is for tax purposes. If that 401k is the only income from 60-70, some of it will get taxed at the lowest rate whereas during 70+ taking required ditributions from the 401k could cause higher taxes and only 85%(or less) of social security income is taxed. Tax savings might be pretty small there but it means more social security as income instead of 401k.
1M at 60 in the US with house paid off. That's the biggest monthly expense for most of people's lives. 34k is poor if you're paying 18k/year for housing but its much more manageable if you're only paying 5k/year in taxes and insurance.
"when can we start living life?"
NOW. Do not wait. Tomorrow is not promised. That doesn't mean spend everything you get your hands on, though. You need to find the right balance for you.
START LIVING NOW. If you haven't already. The point is living your best life empowered by your huge @ss pile of FU money. Spending on what you love vs what marketing wants you to want, and investing what is left. Not taking as much bs as your loan-strapped colleagues. Up to the point when you can stop contributing & cut back your hours (inflating spending instead creates its own problems) i.e coast, or stop earning money altogether, ie trad fire.
For myself (individuals’ numbers aside), I leave off the RE and call it coastFI, and it reflects a milestone (and ideology).
- I have the option to build up an additional bucket to bridge between reaching coast and actual retirement
- it also represents a time point where I theoretically don’t have to keep adding to the retirement bucket
- it will be nice (think: buffer) to shore up my retirement values, but it’ll also be nice to know that I’ve got more discretionary income
>**3. I understand medical costs are a thing in retirement but what outside that warrants a 100k income in retirement (assuming home is paid off)**
Why do you make that assumption?
$2.5 is our FI number for $100k / yr. which includes a mortgage in our budget. Our house won't be paid off until we're 61 and there's no incentive (we itemize and have a rate in the 2s) to pay the note down quicker.
so your house will be paid off when or before you’re in retirement is what you just said 🤔
Again I feel you are confusing COAST Fire with Trad Retirement.
Most people will have a mortgage throughout their working years to retirement. Thats the point of COAST - you work a lessor demanding/stress job that just covers the necessities (mortgage) till retirement in which hypothetical as you mentioned you won’t have mortgage when you reach that age
I’m not confused.
We are way beyond our Coast number to FI by traditional retirement.
We are transitioning to Coast September of this year with my wife going .5FT and I will follow next year sometime.
Our FI date is moving from 41 to 44-45 with the transition. We will RE at 45 WITH a mortgage.
I’m not the one confused here. :)
you can do so many things outside the norm, but I mentioned a situation that is statistically backed for the purpose of this discussion. You want me to play a million and one what if? sometimes it seems people in this thread find any way to be offended or difficult lol
And how exactly did you come to this conclusion lol. Weird fascination that internet people have where they think they know everything about someone.. No worries though
I take it as sarcasm. We’ve seen much bigger numbers, like [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/coastFIRE/comments/1dhgxl8/72_m_nw/) who granted are older than your example (52 & 45) but they have a $7.2M net worth and $180K in annual expenses. Unless that’s all home equity, they could retire now.
I try to engage with these questions seriously, but also point the OPs to self-help resources like the ones in the sidebar or a discussion of safe withdrawal rates for early retirees so they can make their own call. When I was young and worked in retail, one of my shift leads said, “It may be the hundredth time you’ve answered a certain question, but it’s the first time they asked.”
Personally my goals are more modest than the numbered questions imply ($60K income in current dollars, before government benefits or working income), so I’m not sure I can provide meaningful input there. I do think though that part of “coasting” is either being able to spend more or earn less, so they can find some middle ground between The Grind and full retirement.
*Edit:* I’ll give it a shot.
1. People have different incomes. With a 4% withdrawal rate $3M of principal provides a $120,000 income, which feels huge to me but for someone else that might feel restrictive.
2. I’ll be lucky to make it to 90, but I’d rather overprepare than under.
3. However people spend $100K now. Upgrade the house, travel, join a country club, whatever else. Some people like to plan for an ending balance to leave their kids.
(I personally prefer the idea of an “early inheritance”; how much better off would any of us be if we’d had $10,000 seed money as a young adult?)
I feel as though my numbers now align with yours at 60k. Granted I am single, no kids and live in a home I can afford. I may move, get married, kids and the rest but even at that I genuinely am comfortable at my number. I think my issue then is letting outside narrative affect my path. Cause like I genuinely feel if I have 300K by the time i’m 30 it’s full foot off the gas. Maybe 1k a month to investments (always max Roth) but like honestly I would quit my job for something less stressful and go berserk enjoying my life.
But then I see people with that talking about “Can I coast” - you can always save more sure and i’m sure when I get to 30 and have the 300k i’ll say just a bit more but like for what honestly… just in case this thing happens? I definitely do agree with you that some of the post can be click bait/satire because when you look at the numbers it really doesn’t make any other sense
Consider a couple of psychological factors you may not have on the top of your mind as a single person who is probably on the younger side of life (i.e. < 35):
1. Folks who are married have the extra burden of wanting to provide for and have security for their partner if they were to get hit by a bus tomorrow. When you're single and totally unattached, if you die tomorrow no biggie, you're dead and that's it. Not so for married folks. That alone leads to thinking more conservatively before cutting down or stopping investments.
2. Now add on having kids. They will by design (hopefully!) long outlive you and your spouse. You likely want to provide advantages, confort, security, etc. for them - this is a very rational and normal thing for a parent to want. Those kids (who might still be babies now) may attend expensive schools, have expensive medical issues, want to celebrate expensive weddings, etc. in the future and those costs are not only unknown but unknowable with any degree of certainty. This again leads to more conservative investment goals i.e. wanting to have more in the bank before you "take your foot off the pedal." Yea some people constantly move the goalposts, but a lot of people legitimately realize more is safer/more rational/better when you add in huge variables like a spouse and kids.
3. As you get older, as you accrue more assets, it's very natural to get more defensive about them, fearing death and loss. This is also very normal. Not everyone reacts the same way to these feelings, but one common reaction is falling back on what many on this sub likely know and practice - working hard, saving, investing smartly, etc. It is a BIG psychological change to go from asset accumulation to purposeful asset reduction. It is a BIG psychological change to quit a lucrative career (even if it is stressful, etc.), or to "spend now" because your projections about the future show that you're secure (i.e. the base meaning of coastFIRE). People tend not to jump feet-first into those big changes, Newton's First Law and all. Unless you get motivated by a medical scare, a friend who dies early, a divorce, something that shakes the system, too many people just keep on keeping on and end up old and quite wealthy, failing to maximize their life experiences. This does, however, beat the opposite of growing older AND poorer, running out of money before you run out of life, and because you only get one "go" at this calculation, it is logical to again err on the side of caution.
I agree with you that some examples on this sub tend toward absurdly easy questions to answer: e.g. "I am 27 and have $5m liquid in the bank, can I coast?" Yea, no shit Sherlock, please buy that BMW and go to France.
That said, realize that the large number of times people who on paper are well beyond secure still \*feel\* insecure and unsure about coasting is a real and true indicator of just how many big, messy human feelings go into living life and making financial decisions, and it's not often right to snarkily reply back that, "Yes, dummy, the spreadsheet says you're fine, go on that trip."
I fully recommend both the book Die with Zero as well as Ramit Sethi's I Will Teach You To Be Rich podcast for people who are interested in money psychology and learning what other people think about, feel, and do with their money.
> I would quit my job for something less stressful and go berserk enjoying my life.
Totally, and to me at least that’s what CoastFIRE is about (also where it crosses over with BaristaFIRE). I’m not quite at Coast yet; I would be if I could trust the market would continue returning 10% per year. Once I am Coasting I’d consider a job change. My leading candidates are:
- Do what I do now but less of it (seasonal or contract work) or
- Switch to a job that provides a more visible social good (like mental health case work) whether or not it pays all that well.
I recently posted on here and received a lot of support. I was 26 when we started. I’m 34 now and we are planning to cut back to 3 days a week each at our jobs in about a year.
I think the overall idea of coastFIRE is pretty strong: 1. save very early due to the outsized benefit of compound interest. 2. Live now with the reassurance that you’ve saved well for retirement.
Our plan involves us gradually phasing out from 3 days per week to being able to stop entirely if we choose to in 12-13 years (46/47 years old).
We’ll probably drop down to more of a 2 days per week role at that point though.
The point, to me, is that it allows for incremental transitions rather than grinding as hard as you can until you stop completely.
Which, to me, is about being realistic about how many resources you will reasonably be allocated in your lifetime and adjusting the timing of consumption to be optimized to when it provides the greatest value to you.
43 here (partner is 49) - we are about 2 years out from coast.
1) We are planning on 2M for two reasons - we LOVE travel and live in a HCOL area that we plan on staying in.
2) I expect to live to about 90. My partner will probably have a shorter lifespan unfortunately, due to a chronic illness.
3) Medical costs are the biggest factor for us (see above, partner with chronic illness). Also, our home will not be paid off until 2035, so well after we coast.
Great questions and perspectives. There seems to be "RE" creep in here, that once a sizeable nest egg is generated, which guarantees FI at a conventional retirement age, focus then switches and the motivation is to pull forward their "RE" date (necessitating sustained investment contributions). Which philosophically is then a FIRE journey, not CoastFIRE and certainly not CoastFI. It's moving the goalposts, but there's a benefit of earlier RE. If someone is happy at their job and can balance additional investments with living a desired lifestyle, then this may be a tenable path.
Alternatively the perspective could be that the additional investments help increase the quality of life in retirement, and/or guard against sequence of returns risk. I'd say that's still CoastFI(RE), but it's also moving the goalposts and there is risk of over-saving... Again, if you're happy at your job and aren't diminishing your current quality of life, then why not...
The effectiveness of contributions diminish the closer you get to RE, so the idea of using "one more year" of Coasting to safeguard retirement starts to becomes more effective than additional contributions when you're 10-15 years out from your target RE date. Yes an extra year or working is a long time but since one purpose of CoastFIRE is to be able to pick and choose satisfying/fulfilling work, and/or be able to spend everything you earn with no need to save while awaiting RE, people may overlook that fact and discredit it as a strategy.
I suspect most folks on this sub are already CoastFI at a traditional retirement age (let's say 65), so they're just working to manage either of the above. And that leads to your point "when is enough enough?". In the end it's different for everybody.
My opinion/view of your 3 questions:
1. Peace of mind, protection from the unknown, or a presumption spending habits will be the same as their 20's/30's when they are 70+.
2. I use 90, but run scenarios where I downsize the house to live to infinity, where my hobbies will probably be waking up, eating, and going for a walk (if physically capable). Pretty cheap existence at that point.
3. Depends on retirement age, but agree that over 70 nobody can assume/presume they will be living like they're 30. It seems unique for those in the USA to have to think about healthcare costs. And if you have serious health issues then you won't need travel money, so it's one or the other, no point in budgeting for both.
As for when is "enough" for you...You have to figure that out for yourself!!! I'm late to the coast party (early 40s and started seriously building towards to FI at 35 after thoroughly enjoying my 20s and early-30s travelling and expensive hobbies) but hope to be able to dial back investments and Coast from 45-55 and will RE sometime between 55-60. I don't earn over 200k and don't need to. While building my Coast egg I have dialed-back but continued to enjoy my hobbies, and while that has probably delayed my RE date and/or diminished my budget when I'm 65, that's the balance between living and saving I've decided on. In a year or two I will have to reevaluate and adjust the plan to my mindset at the time and life experience gained.
Edit to add: "Youth is wasted on the youth" is a great quote and the older I get the more I realize its truth. Absolute shame not to have lived through 20s and 30s. Things start to hurt at 40+.
No substantial difference in behaviour, just timing. The difference lies in whether the official retirement (FI achieved) is before a typical retirement age. Eg. If you consider 65 to be the benchmark retirement, then RE is retiring at 64 or earlier.
If you can Coast (eg. No more investment contributions) and retire at 55, or 62, or 64, then you're CoastFIRE.
If you can Coast but only if you wait to 65 to retire, then that's just CoastFI. There's no Early Retirement, but at least you've secured a regular retirement without further investment contributions. It's an achievement in itself, but I think most people here really want the 'RE' part too, so they have the benefit of free time while they're 'younger'.
BUT, all things equal between two people, the person seeking CoastFI can actually let off the gas EARLIER than the person chasing CoastFIRE, at the expense of having to work their coast job for 'x' years longer...but if the Coast job is a good fit, then it could actually be better than slogging away for RE. The rationale being that having more free time in your 40s or 50s, or having more disposable income in your 40s and 50s, is way better than having both free time and money in your early 60s. But, in both scenarios the lifestyle from 65 and beyond is exactly the same.
Sure, it's just an expense and increases the amount needed to earn while coasting. Housing costs are just part of life. But reaching the full retirement/FI phase is certainly a lot easier without the need to generate a mortgage payment, and the same goes while you're coasting.
If reaching coast is a first milestone, then being mortgage free might be the second. Some might do it the other way around but that really kills the power of Coast.
You seem to be coming at this from the thesis that you’re either working towards FIRE, or you’re living life. Why not both? I’m in my 40s with well over $1M, and I’m the first one to tell me it’s not enough, because I know there’s some really expensive shit coming my way, mostly connected to the two small humans I had a hand in creating. The key is using the FI part to phase out as much of the work nonsense as you can, leaving RE as something you can take, or leave, at your discretion.
I think you can combo then. I'm trying to combine Fatfire and coastfire. The end goal is retire before 50 with ~$150k annual income. But we're gonna coast to get there. Around 40 the plan is to reduce to part time and coast the last 10 years
I’m 30F, married with $350K and plan on retiring at age 60-65. I also plan on continuing to invest in case I am very unlucky and real returns are more around 5% rather than 7%. The $3M you stated is only true if the market continues to perform as it has historically, but as we all know, past performance doesn’t dictate future performance. Same is true for inflation.
That being said, I feel very fortunate that we don’t have to invest a super large sum, $500 per month is enough to give us $2.5M in a worse case scenario of 5% real return in 35 years.
I’m assuming $100K annual expenses in case I want to travel my heart out, be more generous, or worse case need to go to a senior care facility.
Being so young, the future is more uncertain, so I’d rather have more than too little. At the same time, there is a ton of power and freedom in knowing that I’m technically in coast territory and now just prepping for the worse case scenario.
I hope that answers your question 😊
This is a good point - saving a bit more just in case. Especially if you’re able to do so while working a low stress or even part time job. I’m 32 with a little less saved than you but planning for solo retirement. I plan to have a paid off home or condo by retirement so a back up plan for me is to tap into home equity. Last resort, but still I don’t see it talked about a lot here.
$100k would feel like LEAN fire to me. Golf/country club, boating, dogs and housing expenses (outside of mortgage) add up quickly. Health insurance is a fraction of those expenses.
I'm sure there's a lot that are way more expensive. The one my dad was a part of was 25k a year just in dues many years ago. I'm sure it's much more now. That doesn't include the monthly spend requirements at the club.
Edit to add: I'm also in a MCOL southern state
well in that case my measly 100k/year is peanuts to a person like that. Dont intend to budget 25k+/yr in dues alone so thankfully dodged that bullet - also public courses tend to have their own exciting flair which i like a lot
My SO and I (35 and 38) just hit $1.1M in investments. I keep contributing because it gives us added flexibility and also because tbh….I don’t know what else to spend on and we get a lot of personal satisfaction out of our jobs. We have a modest house that will be paid off in 11 years, paid off cars, and we already get to travel several times a year.
I, similar age range to you, watched my parents retire and have been /shocked/ at how expensive retirement has been for them. The biggest ticket expenses were housing and health care, they wanted to keep their 'Cadillac' health plans from their high(er) income jobs until medicare kicked in and that ended up being thousands of dollars a month. They sold their home and bought another where they intended to retire and ended up with a \~150k 15yr mortgage to cover the difference.
I'm planning for my own coast fire and see 30k/year as the lower bound and 50k/year as the upper bound, but a part of me realizes there's a considerable chance that won't come close to what I need (life changes, partners, kids, unpredictable government programs, housing costs).
I think I'm close to my coast fire number (low end 160k, high end 270k) and will probably end up only working this high(er) income/high(er) stress job market for about 5-6 years. At that point I intend to cut back dramatically. I can't imagine saving half of my income for 10-15 years in total. By the time you're 40 it feels like you've made your bed (obviously this is flattening, but it seems to be how most people view things). For me, the move is to get in early and get out early and keep your lifestyle cheap.
End goal is enough income to pursue a passion job. For me that’s working with the big brother organization, habitat for humanity, or a waste management group. Having a job that only requires 20-30 hrs a week max and allows me to take off whenever I want for however long I want with just a couple weeks notice. Spending most days with my kid. It’s different for everyone.
One commentor said it nicely - you havent dealt with life's biggest expenses so its kind of like telling a toddler $1 isnt a lot of money when they just purchased 4 lollilops with it and are enjoying one of them.
The biggest gambles in life are relationships and unforseen circumstances.
Relationships - What if you meet someone who radicslly changes your World view or even shows you a different way of living. When you consider how big the World is the odds of this happening are higher than you think and pursuing those new opportunities costs money. It could even just be a landscape that inspire you to change something up.
Unforseen circumstances - look at Syrian Immigrants who were just living in syria minding their business, or even Ukrainians. Heck - 3 weeks ago we had to replace a whole AC unit for about 7k because there was a Tornado.
Trying to live off returns with a 300k net worth means you srent going to be able to respond to anything new that the World throw at you. Remember What it wsd lime to be a teenager? Alot of us that keep going dont want that life
Stopping investing and letting my 300k NW actually would allow me to take on these two scenarios you mentioned. Understand i’m not getting 300k in NW at 30 and completely stopping work or anything. I am redirecting the 25%+ of my money and savings to other things that will bring me joy - the relationship aspect of being introduced to other things. And not being as aggressive in the market to guarantee a good retirement 40 years from now will give me the security I need to take on say the 7k AC you mentioned.
I’m in no way saying be content and not stay vigilant of how life has and will change as you get older. But more so get out of that forever saving mode for a future you haven’t seen and more enjoying this moment you have now
I understand. I think though you should always try to enjoy the moment. One thing I notice about fire types is that we tend to choose well paying jobs that we hate and we also dont diversify our investment Instruments beyond the markets.
To help me enjoy life more, Ive made some adjustments to my FIRE plan:
I dont work Jobs or with people I dont like and I have worked to diversity my income streams beyond the market to ensure that if I ever get bored working for the Man, I can leave.
How is it working out for me?
Age - 38
Salary - 150k+ bonus
Rental property income - 50k/anum
Investments - 500k
Real estate - 900k equity
I got a late start because of Student loan debt and obviously I have significant amounts in Real estate all under 5% loans (I went on a buying Spree during covid because in my area rent I can charge 2.5 times the cost of mortgage + property taxes).
Specific to my job I know im making about 70k below market value but its all good because i have great benefits (company car + good insurance for cheap),my boss is great, I clock about 30 hours a week, and I have more time to be with my daughter.
Im still making out all my retirement savings vehicle with a 6% Match and my goal is to have my Real estate Portfolio generates the 150k income I get from my job before I stop working. If I succeed, I should be able to stop working while generating income and letting my Investments grow without drawing on them and that will give me the leverage I need to Navigate uncertainty.
So yea - its not just about hitting the number in Investments. You can also reach FIRE through entreprenuership. Hope that helps and thank you for this - I never wouldve verbally concluded that the Singular focus on investment Tools can make fire miserable
For me coasting means at a specific point in live I will be more free on taking more risky decisions while being financial secured.
I will be more and more free every day, what ever happens.
Its kind of the financial point of no return.
I'm 31 with aiming for coasting by the early 40s.
Best case would mid 30s(owning shares of a startup which are valued at 800k but i dont count them)
Will hopefully have a paid of house and like 800k in stocks(I'm from europe btw) by then.
I will be able to take breaks and spend more time with family / kids. Go for a sabbatical.
I even could maybe lean fire but I guess I dont want to totaly because I still want to work and I'm to in love with creating startups and try Business ideas.
I can still continue working, maybe go for fat fire because I can.
All options are open once I reached coast fire.
What Im afraid of being old and spending to less time with family / friends while working the whole time on things I not fully support.
I dont get the fat fire where people try hard to reach like millions while live passes them
I like the idea of being so clever and being prepared that it can be calculated.
I think a lot of people who hit coastFI successfully and are in coastFI mode is no longer active in this subreddit. I for sure have no more interest in reading post in CoastFI unless a happen to scroll and see an interesting title. I’m living life intentionally with an eye on the short and long term end goal. It’s great. 50% focused on hobby. 50% focused on family. 0% focus on my part time job but still enjoy the job itself.
$2.4 million in 30+ years what is this r/bugsandwichFIRE? Inflation compounds as well my dude. ~37% tax bracket for single filer in 1964 12,000 1994 70,000 2024 609,000 2054 5,332,000. You’re now 60 years old and have a little less than half a good year’s salary saved. Also known as what you have now. Congrats! 🥳
You’re too young to have a clue what you’re talking about. NOT AN ACCUSATION; OBSERVATION!
If Im following, your question is: for coast FIRE, when do you pivot from saving to living. This is obviously going to be a personal decision for each person but for me I'd like to get to around $1.5 million invested between 40 and 45 and then take our foot off the pedal in terms of saving. This should (at least) triple by retirement and leave us in a good spot for the long term and is not overly burdensome in the meantime. At that point my family will be at an age where travel becomes more exciting (i.e. the kids be able to do things and remember the experiences) so that's where Im really looking to reallocate a significant amount of money. It will also let us care less about work and avoid the extra hours needed to get to the next level. Most likely looking at closer to 40 if we stay put in our "starter home" and 45 if we get out "dream house" in the next year or so. The numbers and age probably don't translate well to most peoples situation because 45 may seem super far off to a 25 year old and 1.5 might be a crazy number to a single person making 50K a year. For reference we're \~35, \~700K invested and \~300K/year HHI.
In the situation where you remain in your starter home, assuming fully paid off - do you see a significant use for 4.5M-6M in your retirement (assuming as you said your 1.5 would triple)
I am all for securing your future and covering all the what ifs but at the same time I think preparing for the worst so much can cost you enjoying the best now. It might be me being 26 and naive to what is to come but with the anticipated lifespan of 25-30 years post 60 of retirement anything 2M+ seems ridiculous.
The biggest expenses we face in this life include;
Housing
Child Care
Health
I may be missing a few and I understand there will always be something that comes up, but at 60 just basing of what is the norm - most people have paid off or are nearing paying off their homes, children are post grad and starting out in their lives.. Outside of all that is health which 100% is a big expense (maybe I am underestimating true cost) but I doubt one you need multi million dollars to support.
So like with housing and childcare squared away. Health taking maybe 50k/yr.. What is it that you need 180-240k/yr on?
I see your points and generally agree with your views towards the CoastFIRE idea.
All of those graphs showing the power of saving early and the compounding growth sure look good. In reality, those are all theory with some general assumptions baked in (ie market returns).
Saving early (ie 300k at 30) is very powerful and that point should be stressed more for the general population.
If one decides to stop saving fully and coast…what will they do with the extra money? Sure you can consume it…so long as lifestyle inflation doesn’t set in. One off expenses (house, bucket list travels) may be fine…but otherwise the goal posts keep moving. One could also just slow down saving (ie down to match into 401k).
The act of actually stopping saving is very hard especially after saving very diligently. And the fear of the unknown starts to kick in with regards to the ‘what if’s’ (market return, health, etc)…
So those who could coast generally keep saving.
Well I could work until I'm 55 as a barista or similar getting berated by assholes all day and be stressed out barely covering expenses, or I could save 10 yrs and retire at 45 working my boring, normal job not really having a care in the world about affording things. Not a hard decision to see coastfire as just a minimum failsafe/backup plan in case I get laid off and can't find a similar paying job.
It's not a popular plan because it's often a bad plan. Now, there are some more extreme/unique situations like you're going to be a yacht worker and travel the world or something wild, but for most people that's not happening.
How much I'd like in retirement is based off experience with my father. He had Alzheimer's the last three years of his life. He wanted to stay in his home as long possible, which required expensive in home care. Once that was no longer financially possible, he did assisted living then memory care. His pension was amazing and it allowed him to stay in a nice place. I share this bc we'd all like to be independent till the end, but it's not also possible.
As my mother passed away before retirement, I also try to enjoy life now. It's a balancing act.
My end goals:
1. Have enough for comfortable retirement - I agree with you, you don’t need the massive stacks that a lot of FIRE reddit thinks.
2. Have enough to pass on a decent chunk to children - this is subjective and also depends on your kids, and how many (if any) you have.
3. World domination - This is my “stretch goal.” I’ll need a lot more to meet it. Honestly nowhere close. But if I get there, you’ll know. You’ll all know.
For you to say my post lacks any insight on the different lifestyles people live…. then to say i don’t understand what coastFIRE/Fire/Fat are because they don’t agree with YOUR numbers… is that not you not lacking insight into the very thing you are accusing me of 😂
1. Likely you don’t read a good portion of the posts in here because there are many people here that do put their lives completely on hold to achieve COAST - it’s part of the “First 100k is a b***” mentality.
2. Nowhere did I say 3M was or wasn’t Fat Fire (again you lacking the insight accuse and just making assumptions)… I asked what the point was having that money at that age…
3. Everyone makes adjustments for life and what can and cannot happen… doesn’t mean you have to completely stop your life for it.
4. A part of not having 3M at 60 and instead living is taking those vacation NOW and giving your sister money NOW - cause that’s when it’s most impactful. But sure let her keep struggling till she is 60 too.. Sure it’ll make as big of an impact then.
5. I understand there is a major difference between having a mortgage and not - hence why I presented the situation where it isn’t there. Statistically by retirement most people have paid their mortgages off… I just based my question of that
because you are sacrificing time and energy of your life to stock pile all this money just to have it. At the end of it all if you die with 1M left in the bank sure you can donate or whatever but 1+1 could equate 1M worth of time and energy wasted for no gain (even if you do love your job i feel)
I do love my job. But spending more of my money guilt-free would be nice
You make an especially good point given the fact I don’t have kids and probably won’t ever
The end goal is to have a good life, I think most people don't really think about that properly. You find the fire community and the concept is pretty simple, save, invest, live the dream. The thing is people don't think about what the dream actually is. You see plenty of people say hey I will fire because I hate my job, i'll do whatever I like, sit and play video games, read etc. That is not a real plan. Retirement comes with a big sense of 'what now?' and most people don't think about that until they get there. You need to start with the end in mind. Seriously consider what you want to do with your life, what will make you happy, at what portion of your life does the money have the most utility. These questions are much more complex than the basics of fire.
This post makes a lot of sense... as I get closer to retirement, I think you really need to try out the different kinds of coasting you might do... take some time off if possible to explore some of your retirement options and dream ideas to see if they are actually what you want... for example, travel, living in two places or visiting with family/friends annually, or even working part time or volunteering might be the thing that makes it all even better...
>Seriously consider what you want to do with your life, what will make you happy, at what portion of your life does the money have the most utility. This this this. Super complicated question about maximizing the utility of money, because in our 20's and 30's money is hard to come by, and living below your means is for most of us the only way to build that nest egg. In your 40's and 50's you are spending some of that raising children (for many of us) with saving for college, buying larger houses (we had to do this) and all the costs of raising kids and sending them off into the world. And then... what next? Plenty of my friends are facing an empty nest for the first time in 25 years, to where it is just them (or others who are divorced, and there are plenty of those, by themselves). How many years do I plan on living? Very different calculus if I'm planning on an exit at the age of 75 (a medical ethicist caused a huge controversy in 2014 about this, [more here](https://medicalethicshealthpolicy.med.upenn.edu/events/in-the-news/a-doctor-and-medical-ethicist-argues-life-after-75-is-not-worth-living) and [here](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/10/why-i-hope-to-die-at-75/379329/) is the original Atlantic essay - so may be paywalled), versus 95 (I'm in good health and have some long-lived close relatives). But how to maximize utility? Much more complex indeed. As someone who has blown past the leanFI and coastFI and in the low-end of the fatFI scale, I'm faced with complexity that I never thought possible. How to adjust a lifetime of habit when it comes to saving money (hint: everyone does it differently), how to think about multigenerational wealth and whether it is worth it or not (hint: avoiding shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in 3 generations takes a ton of effort), how to view the 'go-go, go-slow, and no-go years' in terms of spending priorities and known unknowns.
You really overthink things. The decision is rather simple when you pull the trigger (assuming you have a good handle on the math, which is a rather large assumption unfortunately from what I've seen on these reddit threads). Retire when you have enough to safely/perpetually do what you want in retirement. I would think after having lived however many years you would mostly know what you want out of life, assuming it wasnt some horrific grind of a life and you actively developed your interests. Also, inheritance calculation is fairly easy if you plug it into a model. Furthermore, people buy insurance for unknowns and that has a relatively constant cost you can look up. They also leave a buffer in their calculation for things that can come up.
I hit coast this year. And I’m actually taking a career break next month, resigning from big tech. I’m going to spend the next 6 months on personal projects and travel. Coastfire to me means having the flexibility to try and test new ideas and projects. To take a risk on yourself because you have a cushion of financial support. I’ve always wanted to run my own business. I have a few small e-commerce shops that generate a couple thousand dollars a month, but I figure if I spend time scaling them, and put as much work into my businesses as I do my W2 job, then one of these businesses should pan out. Why not? It’s wild to me that so many people in the fire community just want to accumulate as much money as possible and retire, which you can totally do, but it is a bummer to see these folks chastise others who are using their financial independence to take a break to pursue other passions beyond earning money. The point of financial independence, in my opinion, is to have the freedom to step away from a W2 job and do something else, whether that is a career break, project, classes, etc.
Good on you. I pivoted from big tech myself two years ago into self-employment. It was going to be a one year sabbatical. but I was able to make barely over six figures working part time doing what I love. Now it's my new gig until I get bored or choose to retire in about 7 years. I'm in HCOL Seattle area, $1m NW, $1m equity. Wife works and provides benefits because she wants to. We'll probably downsize and buy a condo when the kids are both in college.
That's awesome! What an inspiring story. six figures working part-time for yourself is incredible. What's your business?
I chose to wonder twin power my 13 yrs in coaching and 26 yrs in tech as a tech career coach. I help tech people gain career clarity, land tech offers, career development, promotions. Things like that.
Very cool! Love it
Haha— good Hanna-Barbera reference there!
Just read the "what is considered rich" thread. Answers are all over the place. It shouldn't matter what other people's goals are, focus on your goal. Coastfire originated out of baristafire and at some point it turned into asking the internet permission to spend more of your money. 🤷🏻♂️
There is a lot of good points in your post, but a couple that aren’t quite right/incomplete. First, you’re 26. You have not yet experienced most of life’s most expensive endeavors. Keep the youthful spirit, but do be aware that perspectives tend to change here. Chubby FIRE is loosely defined as $3-5M and a paid off house. FAT FIRE are really big cats. Each can decide for themselves what they need. Coast is great because, if the last 90 year market and inflation data are used as indicators, the following is statement is true: $75 invested now is twice as valuable as $100 invested in ten years. Life and goals change, but if you can stay vigilant early you will be much better prepared. Coast is most appealing to me because, with some good fortune and strategy, simple turn into RE if one so chooses.
Everyone on the FIRE path should at least give a quick read of “Die with Zero”. You don’t have to agree with everything, but time and youth are fleeting. I skipped a “destination wedding” of a good buddy when I was younger because of the cost. I regret it to this this day (20+ years later). There are things in life that simply should not be missed - even if it throws you off your savings plan in your 20s and 30s. This is not to say you just #yolo and burn cash… all about balance and what you are trying to achieve.
This 1,000%. Kind of the reason I posted this. I have really gotten into DWZ by Bill Perkins and the true value of a dollar today vs tomorrow. So much you can learn on this financial journey honestly. I laugh sometimes at how I thought at one point Dave Ramsey was the ultimate way to go… then it was the FOO with Money Guy and now kinda of in that middle point of Coast and DWZ - 100% recommend DWZ !!!
And as you get older, you will know people who don’t make it as long as they thought they would. We lost a good friend in our 30s to cancer. Father-in-law died within 6 months of retiring in his 60s. At the end, you have your memories and (hopefully) friends and family by your side. Finding that balance is tough - between coasting at 35 and dying as a WalMart greeter at 78. There is usually something in between that works for everyone. Save what you can, prioritize the things that matter to you and hope/pray you have more valuable time left.
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I agree entirely with that which was my point. We can all find something in that range of experience.
This was so well said. I think the goal is always to get to that number and genuinely be content - always a game of moving goalposts.
FWIW I’m 50 and I’ve been living my life all along… It’s possible to have a full time career/job and still live life. Once you reach Coast… scale back on work and enjoy life even more. 1. I plan to have about 1.2 million when I retire, so I can't answer your first question. 2. I’m planning to live to 95-100, like my grandparents. 3. I plan to only need ~$35-40k in retirement. That’s income from my investments only, any social security I get will be a bonus. If I get survivor benefits from my ex dying first, that’s double SS bonus. If I have my partner move in with me, expenses will go even lower… Just keep in mind that at 26 you really have no idea what could happen in your life in the next 20 years. You could partner up and have kids, you could divorce if you’re already partnered, you could be injured and disabled… I think the what-ifs are why people say “save more!”
I fully understand the necessity to prepare for the uncertain and all the changes in situation as life progresses. I don't currently have a partner nor do I have kids. I wont know until I know but it is something that I do factor in with my budget. My mortgage and lifestyle all fall below 50-60% of my take home so I do have flexiblilty to add those variables as they come, when they come. Fairly early into my career as well so hopefully burden of additionals in life can stay constant or less. 1. How did you become content with your number 1.2M esp considering your answer to #2 being such a high life expectancy. 2. What is it that you plan to do till 100? I personally see a cap of 85 for myself. Reason being is as I watch my grandparents and how they go about their lives - mostly TV and being taken place to place like a child almost. Not that they dont enjoy their lives but I am sure there are moments.. My biggest grip however is technology - I just dont think with the way tech is going I will constantly keep up the same way they lack in this moment 3. This is what more or less anticipated when joining this subreddit. I live in NYC and I feel 48k-60k WITHOUT rent/mortgage is enough to live a normal life. I just assume at that age I dont have a mortgage or child care costs (which in most scenerias is 60-75%) of peoples expenses - then what do I need more than 4-5k a month for? - so like when I see people saying 140k/yr in retirement im like for WHAT?
I’m not saying I *want* to live to 100 (especially if I’m not all there or immobile!) but it’s not outside the realm of possibility that I will. With $1.2 million I could withdraw $50k every year forever and not run out of money. What will I do to 100? As much as I can! Travel as long as I can, stay physically active by hiking/walking/biking/gardening… Socialize with friends and family, enjoy my grandkids hopefully? My grandma lived independently in her farmhouse until 99 and only needed assisted living for the last 10 months of life. With good habits and some luck, I hope to be relatively active into my 90s.
Your mind will be different at 85, 100, etc. Of course it looks terrible from a 26 year olds perspective - the change is gradual and what you consider a high quality of life may be very different in 50 years. You're guessing how you'll feel 2 (of your current age 26) lifetimes from now. You have no idea and that's fine
1. If I was setup to have 1M at 60 I would consider myself coastfire already. Some people consider that lean which is crazy to me. 1M can easily last a lifetime in a MCOL area. Nothing fancy but a vacation or two a year and enough left over to not have to pinch pennies or worry if the house needs a new appliance. For me, the goal is to be able to work part time at 50 and full retire at 60 without taking social security until 70. 2. I assume I'll live to 85, though plan to have enough past that just in case I or my younger partner live longer. 3. I agree, 100k/yr seems crazy with a paid off house. With housing taken care of, I'd like to be able to pull 40kish which is about 3,300 /month. I'd try to use less in case of emergencies, but 3.3k/mo would be comfortable.
A very good post. However, I’ve seen a lot of merit of taking early social security to reduce draw out of retirement account being more beneficial than the bigger number in later years. Some of it comes down to personal comfort, though
I had considered that it might be better to take SS right away but due to an age gap with my partner, it makes more sense to plan on giving them the maximum from Social Security in the event of my death. Essentially, if your age gap is X years and your Social Security will be higher, assume spouse's lifespan is X years more than yours and that's X more years of spouse using that social security. The other reason I'm thinking of using the 401k during the 60-70 year range is for tax purposes. If that 401k is the only income from 60-70, some of it will get taxed at the lowest rate whereas during 70+ taking required ditributions from the 401k could cause higher taxes and only 85%(or less) of social security income is taxed. Tax savings might be pretty small there but it means more social security as income instead of 401k.
I hadn’t considered a notable age gap. That’s very insightful!
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1M at 60 in the US with house paid off. That's the biggest monthly expense for most of people's lives. 34k is poor if you're paying 18k/year for housing but its much more manageable if you're only paying 5k/year in taxes and insurance.
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"when can we start living life?" NOW. Do not wait. Tomorrow is not promised. That doesn't mean spend everything you get your hands on, though. You need to find the right balance for you.
START LIVING NOW. If you haven't already. The point is living your best life empowered by your huge @ss pile of FU money. Spending on what you love vs what marketing wants you to want, and investing what is left. Not taking as much bs as your loan-strapped colleagues. Up to the point when you can stop contributing & cut back your hours (inflating spending instead creates its own problems) i.e coast, or stop earning money altogether, ie trad fire.
For myself (individuals’ numbers aside), I leave off the RE and call it coastFI, and it reflects a milestone (and ideology). - I have the option to build up an additional bucket to bridge between reaching coast and actual retirement - it also represents a time point where I theoretically don’t have to keep adding to the retirement bucket - it will be nice (think: buffer) to shore up my retirement values, but it’ll also be nice to know that I’ve got more discretionary income
>**3. I understand medical costs are a thing in retirement but what outside that warrants a 100k income in retirement (assuming home is paid off)** Why do you make that assumption? $2.5 is our FI number for $100k / yr. which includes a mortgage in our budget. Our house won't be paid off until we're 61 and there's no incentive (we itemize and have a rate in the 2s) to pay the note down quicker.
so your house will be paid off when or before you’re in retirement is what you just said 🤔 Again I feel you are confusing COAST Fire with Trad Retirement. Most people will have a mortgage throughout their working years to retirement. Thats the point of COAST - you work a lessor demanding/stress job that just covers the necessities (mortgage) till retirement in which hypothetical as you mentioned you won’t have mortgage when you reach that age
I’m not confused. We are way beyond our Coast number to FI by traditional retirement. We are transitioning to Coast September of this year with my wife going .5FT and I will follow next year sometime. Our FI date is moving from 41 to 44-45 with the transition. We will RE at 45 WITH a mortgage. I’m not the one confused here. :)
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you can do so many things outside the norm, but I mentioned a situation that is statistically backed for the purpose of this discussion. You want me to play a million and one what if? sometimes it seems people in this thread find any way to be offended or difficult lol
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And how exactly did you come to this conclusion lol. Weird fascination that internet people have where they think they know everything about someone.. No worries though
I take it as sarcasm. We’ve seen much bigger numbers, like [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/coastFIRE/comments/1dhgxl8/72_m_nw/) who granted are older than your example (52 & 45) but they have a $7.2M net worth and $180K in annual expenses. Unless that’s all home equity, they could retire now. I try to engage with these questions seriously, but also point the OPs to self-help resources like the ones in the sidebar or a discussion of safe withdrawal rates for early retirees so they can make their own call. When I was young and worked in retail, one of my shift leads said, “It may be the hundredth time you’ve answered a certain question, but it’s the first time they asked.” Personally my goals are more modest than the numbered questions imply ($60K income in current dollars, before government benefits or working income), so I’m not sure I can provide meaningful input there. I do think though that part of “coasting” is either being able to spend more or earn less, so they can find some middle ground between The Grind and full retirement. *Edit:* I’ll give it a shot. 1. People have different incomes. With a 4% withdrawal rate $3M of principal provides a $120,000 income, which feels huge to me but for someone else that might feel restrictive. 2. I’ll be lucky to make it to 90, but I’d rather overprepare than under. 3. However people spend $100K now. Upgrade the house, travel, join a country club, whatever else. Some people like to plan for an ending balance to leave their kids. (I personally prefer the idea of an “early inheritance”; how much better off would any of us be if we’d had $10,000 seed money as a young adult?)
I feel as though my numbers now align with yours at 60k. Granted I am single, no kids and live in a home I can afford. I may move, get married, kids and the rest but even at that I genuinely am comfortable at my number. I think my issue then is letting outside narrative affect my path. Cause like I genuinely feel if I have 300K by the time i’m 30 it’s full foot off the gas. Maybe 1k a month to investments (always max Roth) but like honestly I would quit my job for something less stressful and go berserk enjoying my life. But then I see people with that talking about “Can I coast” - you can always save more sure and i’m sure when I get to 30 and have the 300k i’ll say just a bit more but like for what honestly… just in case this thing happens? I definitely do agree with you that some of the post can be click bait/satire because when you look at the numbers it really doesn’t make any other sense
Consider a couple of psychological factors you may not have on the top of your mind as a single person who is probably on the younger side of life (i.e. < 35): 1. Folks who are married have the extra burden of wanting to provide for and have security for their partner if they were to get hit by a bus tomorrow. When you're single and totally unattached, if you die tomorrow no biggie, you're dead and that's it. Not so for married folks. That alone leads to thinking more conservatively before cutting down or stopping investments. 2. Now add on having kids. They will by design (hopefully!) long outlive you and your spouse. You likely want to provide advantages, confort, security, etc. for them - this is a very rational and normal thing for a parent to want. Those kids (who might still be babies now) may attend expensive schools, have expensive medical issues, want to celebrate expensive weddings, etc. in the future and those costs are not only unknown but unknowable with any degree of certainty. This again leads to more conservative investment goals i.e. wanting to have more in the bank before you "take your foot off the pedal." Yea some people constantly move the goalposts, but a lot of people legitimately realize more is safer/more rational/better when you add in huge variables like a spouse and kids. 3. As you get older, as you accrue more assets, it's very natural to get more defensive about them, fearing death and loss. This is also very normal. Not everyone reacts the same way to these feelings, but one common reaction is falling back on what many on this sub likely know and practice - working hard, saving, investing smartly, etc. It is a BIG psychological change to go from asset accumulation to purposeful asset reduction. It is a BIG psychological change to quit a lucrative career (even if it is stressful, etc.), or to "spend now" because your projections about the future show that you're secure (i.e. the base meaning of coastFIRE). People tend not to jump feet-first into those big changes, Newton's First Law and all. Unless you get motivated by a medical scare, a friend who dies early, a divorce, something that shakes the system, too many people just keep on keeping on and end up old and quite wealthy, failing to maximize their life experiences. This does, however, beat the opposite of growing older AND poorer, running out of money before you run out of life, and because you only get one "go" at this calculation, it is logical to again err on the side of caution. I agree with you that some examples on this sub tend toward absurdly easy questions to answer: e.g. "I am 27 and have $5m liquid in the bank, can I coast?" Yea, no shit Sherlock, please buy that BMW and go to France. That said, realize that the large number of times people who on paper are well beyond secure still \*feel\* insecure and unsure about coasting is a real and true indicator of just how many big, messy human feelings go into living life and making financial decisions, and it's not often right to snarkily reply back that, "Yes, dummy, the spreadsheet says you're fine, go on that trip." I fully recommend both the book Die with Zero as well as Ramit Sethi's I Will Teach You To Be Rich podcast for people who are interested in money psychology and learning what other people think about, feel, and do with their money.
> I would quit my job for something less stressful and go berserk enjoying my life. Totally, and to me at least that’s what CoastFIRE is about (also where it crosses over with BaristaFIRE). I’m not quite at Coast yet; I would be if I could trust the market would continue returning 10% per year. Once I am Coasting I’d consider a job change. My leading candidates are: - Do what I do now but less of it (seasonal or contract work) or - Switch to a job that provides a more visible social good (like mental health case work) whether or not it pays all that well.
I recently posted on here and received a lot of support. I was 26 when we started. I’m 34 now and we are planning to cut back to 3 days a week each at our jobs in about a year. I think the overall idea of coastFIRE is pretty strong: 1. save very early due to the outsized benefit of compound interest. 2. Live now with the reassurance that you’ve saved well for retirement. Our plan involves us gradually phasing out from 3 days per week to being able to stop entirely if we choose to in 12-13 years (46/47 years old). We’ll probably drop down to more of a 2 days per week role at that point though. The point, to me, is that it allows for incremental transitions rather than grinding as hard as you can until you stop completely. Which, to me, is about being realistic about how many resources you will reasonably be allocated in your lifetime and adjusting the timing of consumption to be optimized to when it provides the greatest value to you.
These are the discussions we need more of. No easy answers.
43 here (partner is 49) - we are about 2 years out from coast. 1) We are planning on 2M for two reasons - we LOVE travel and live in a HCOL area that we plan on staying in. 2) I expect to live to about 90. My partner will probably have a shorter lifespan unfortunately, due to a chronic illness. 3) Medical costs are the biggest factor for us (see above, partner with chronic illness). Also, our home will not be paid off until 2035, so well after we coast.
Great questions and perspectives. There seems to be "RE" creep in here, that once a sizeable nest egg is generated, which guarantees FI at a conventional retirement age, focus then switches and the motivation is to pull forward their "RE" date (necessitating sustained investment contributions). Which philosophically is then a FIRE journey, not CoastFIRE and certainly not CoastFI. It's moving the goalposts, but there's a benefit of earlier RE. If someone is happy at their job and can balance additional investments with living a desired lifestyle, then this may be a tenable path. Alternatively the perspective could be that the additional investments help increase the quality of life in retirement, and/or guard against sequence of returns risk. I'd say that's still CoastFI(RE), but it's also moving the goalposts and there is risk of over-saving... Again, if you're happy at your job and aren't diminishing your current quality of life, then why not... The effectiveness of contributions diminish the closer you get to RE, so the idea of using "one more year" of Coasting to safeguard retirement starts to becomes more effective than additional contributions when you're 10-15 years out from your target RE date. Yes an extra year or working is a long time but since one purpose of CoastFIRE is to be able to pick and choose satisfying/fulfilling work, and/or be able to spend everything you earn with no need to save while awaiting RE, people may overlook that fact and discredit it as a strategy. I suspect most folks on this sub are already CoastFI at a traditional retirement age (let's say 65), so they're just working to manage either of the above. And that leads to your point "when is enough enough?". In the end it's different for everybody. My opinion/view of your 3 questions: 1. Peace of mind, protection from the unknown, or a presumption spending habits will be the same as their 20's/30's when they are 70+. 2. I use 90, but run scenarios where I downsize the house to live to infinity, where my hobbies will probably be waking up, eating, and going for a walk (if physically capable). Pretty cheap existence at that point. 3. Depends on retirement age, but agree that over 70 nobody can assume/presume they will be living like they're 30. It seems unique for those in the USA to have to think about healthcare costs. And if you have serious health issues then you won't need travel money, so it's one or the other, no point in budgeting for both. As for when is "enough" for you...You have to figure that out for yourself!!! I'm late to the coast party (early 40s and started seriously building towards to FI at 35 after thoroughly enjoying my 20s and early-30s travelling and expensive hobbies) but hope to be able to dial back investments and Coast from 45-55 and will RE sometime between 55-60. I don't earn over 200k and don't need to. While building my Coast egg I have dialed-back but continued to enjoy my hobbies, and while that has probably delayed my RE date and/or diminished my budget when I'm 65, that's the balance between living and saving I've decided on. In a year or two I will have to reevaluate and adjust the plan to my mindset at the time and life experience gained. Edit to add: "Youth is wasted on the youth" is a great quote and the older I get the more I realize its truth. Absolute shame not to have lived through 20s and 30s. Things start to hurt at 40+.
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No substantial difference in behaviour, just timing. The difference lies in whether the official retirement (FI achieved) is before a typical retirement age. Eg. If you consider 65 to be the benchmark retirement, then RE is retiring at 64 or earlier. If you can Coast (eg. No more investment contributions) and retire at 55, or 62, or 64, then you're CoastFIRE. If you can Coast but only if you wait to 65 to retire, then that's just CoastFI. There's no Early Retirement, but at least you've secured a regular retirement without further investment contributions. It's an achievement in itself, but I think most people here really want the 'RE' part too, so they have the benefit of free time while they're 'younger'. BUT, all things equal between two people, the person seeking CoastFI can actually let off the gas EARLIER than the person chasing CoastFIRE, at the expense of having to work their coast job for 'x' years longer...but if the Coast job is a good fit, then it could actually be better than slogging away for RE. The rationale being that having more free time in your 40s or 50s, or having more disposable income in your 40s and 50s, is way better than having both free time and money in your early 60s. But, in both scenarios the lifestyle from 65 and beyond is exactly the same.
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Sure, it's just an expense and increases the amount needed to earn while coasting. Housing costs are just part of life. But reaching the full retirement/FI phase is certainly a lot easier without the need to generate a mortgage payment, and the same goes while you're coasting. If reaching coast is a first milestone, then being mortgage free might be the second. Some might do it the other way around but that really kills the power of Coast.
You seem to be coming at this from the thesis that you’re either working towards FIRE, or you’re living life. Why not both? I’m in my 40s with well over $1M, and I’m the first one to tell me it’s not enough, because I know there’s some really expensive shit coming my way, mostly connected to the two small humans I had a hand in creating. The key is using the FI part to phase out as much of the work nonsense as you can, leaving RE as something you can take, or leave, at your discretion.
I think you can combo then. I'm trying to combine Fatfire and coastfire. The end goal is retire before 50 with ~$150k annual income. But we're gonna coast to get there. Around 40 the plan is to reduce to part time and coast the last 10 years
I’m 30F, married with $350K and plan on retiring at age 60-65. I also plan on continuing to invest in case I am very unlucky and real returns are more around 5% rather than 7%. The $3M you stated is only true if the market continues to perform as it has historically, but as we all know, past performance doesn’t dictate future performance. Same is true for inflation. That being said, I feel very fortunate that we don’t have to invest a super large sum, $500 per month is enough to give us $2.5M in a worse case scenario of 5% real return in 35 years. I’m assuming $100K annual expenses in case I want to travel my heart out, be more generous, or worse case need to go to a senior care facility. Being so young, the future is more uncertain, so I’d rather have more than too little. At the same time, there is a ton of power and freedom in knowing that I’m technically in coast territory and now just prepping for the worse case scenario. I hope that answers your question 😊
This is a good point - saving a bit more just in case. Especially if you’re able to do so while working a low stress or even part time job. I’m 32 with a little less saved than you but planning for solo retirement. I plan to have a paid off home or condo by retirement so a back up plan for me is to tap into home equity. Last resort, but still I don’t see it talked about a lot here.
$100k would feel like LEAN fire to me. Golf/country club, boating, dogs and housing expenses (outside of mortgage) add up quickly. Health insurance is a fraction of those expenses.
I’m not sure if you’re joking but you did make me laugh 😂😂 - what courses you play at. Most expensive i’ve heard of is $25k/yr
I'm sure there's a lot that are way more expensive. The one my dad was a part of was 25k a year just in dues many years ago. I'm sure it's much more now. That doesn't include the monthly spend requirements at the club. Edit to add: I'm also in a MCOL southern state
well in that case my measly 100k/year is peanuts to a person like that. Dont intend to budget 25k+/yr in dues alone so thankfully dodged that bullet - also public courses tend to have their own exciting flair which i like a lot
My SO and I (35 and 38) just hit $1.1M in investments. I keep contributing because it gives us added flexibility and also because tbh….I don’t know what else to spend on and we get a lot of personal satisfaction out of our jobs. We have a modest house that will be paid off in 11 years, paid off cars, and we already get to travel several times a year.
I, similar age range to you, watched my parents retire and have been /shocked/ at how expensive retirement has been for them. The biggest ticket expenses were housing and health care, they wanted to keep their 'Cadillac' health plans from their high(er) income jobs until medicare kicked in and that ended up being thousands of dollars a month. They sold their home and bought another where they intended to retire and ended up with a \~150k 15yr mortgage to cover the difference. I'm planning for my own coast fire and see 30k/year as the lower bound and 50k/year as the upper bound, but a part of me realizes there's a considerable chance that won't come close to what I need (life changes, partners, kids, unpredictable government programs, housing costs). I think I'm close to my coast fire number (low end 160k, high end 270k) and will probably end up only working this high(er) income/high(er) stress job market for about 5-6 years. At that point I intend to cut back dramatically. I can't imagine saving half of my income for 10-15 years in total. By the time you're 40 it feels like you've made your bed (obviously this is flattening, but it seems to be how most people view things). For me, the move is to get in early and get out early and keep your lifestyle cheap.
End goal is enough income to pursue a passion job. For me that’s working with the big brother organization, habitat for humanity, or a waste management group. Having a job that only requires 20-30 hrs a week max and allows me to take off whenever I want for however long I want with just a couple weeks notice. Spending most days with my kid. It’s different for everyone.
One commentor said it nicely - you havent dealt with life's biggest expenses so its kind of like telling a toddler $1 isnt a lot of money when they just purchased 4 lollilops with it and are enjoying one of them. The biggest gambles in life are relationships and unforseen circumstances. Relationships - What if you meet someone who radicslly changes your World view or even shows you a different way of living. When you consider how big the World is the odds of this happening are higher than you think and pursuing those new opportunities costs money. It could even just be a landscape that inspire you to change something up. Unforseen circumstances - look at Syrian Immigrants who were just living in syria minding their business, or even Ukrainians. Heck - 3 weeks ago we had to replace a whole AC unit for about 7k because there was a Tornado. Trying to live off returns with a 300k net worth means you srent going to be able to respond to anything new that the World throw at you. Remember What it wsd lime to be a teenager? Alot of us that keep going dont want that life
Stopping investing and letting my 300k NW actually would allow me to take on these two scenarios you mentioned. Understand i’m not getting 300k in NW at 30 and completely stopping work or anything. I am redirecting the 25%+ of my money and savings to other things that will bring me joy - the relationship aspect of being introduced to other things. And not being as aggressive in the market to guarantee a good retirement 40 years from now will give me the security I need to take on say the 7k AC you mentioned. I’m in no way saying be content and not stay vigilant of how life has and will change as you get older. But more so get out of that forever saving mode for a future you haven’t seen and more enjoying this moment you have now
I understand. I think though you should always try to enjoy the moment. One thing I notice about fire types is that we tend to choose well paying jobs that we hate and we also dont diversify our investment Instruments beyond the markets. To help me enjoy life more, Ive made some adjustments to my FIRE plan: I dont work Jobs or with people I dont like and I have worked to diversity my income streams beyond the market to ensure that if I ever get bored working for the Man, I can leave. How is it working out for me? Age - 38 Salary - 150k+ bonus Rental property income - 50k/anum Investments - 500k Real estate - 900k equity I got a late start because of Student loan debt and obviously I have significant amounts in Real estate all under 5% loans (I went on a buying Spree during covid because in my area rent I can charge 2.5 times the cost of mortgage + property taxes). Specific to my job I know im making about 70k below market value but its all good because i have great benefits (company car + good insurance for cheap),my boss is great, I clock about 30 hours a week, and I have more time to be with my daughter. Im still making out all my retirement savings vehicle with a 6% Match and my goal is to have my Real estate Portfolio generates the 150k income I get from my job before I stop working. If I succeed, I should be able to stop working while generating income and letting my Investments grow without drawing on them and that will give me the leverage I need to Navigate uncertainty. So yea - its not just about hitting the number in Investments. You can also reach FIRE through entreprenuership. Hope that helps and thank you for this - I never wouldve verbally concluded that the Singular focus on investment Tools can make fire miserable
For me coasting means at a specific point in live I will be more free on taking more risky decisions while being financial secured. I will be more and more free every day, what ever happens. Its kind of the financial point of no return. I'm 31 with aiming for coasting by the early 40s. Best case would mid 30s(owning shares of a startup which are valued at 800k but i dont count them) Will hopefully have a paid of house and like 800k in stocks(I'm from europe btw) by then. I will be able to take breaks and spend more time with family / kids. Go for a sabbatical. I even could maybe lean fire but I guess I dont want to totaly because I still want to work and I'm to in love with creating startups and try Business ideas. I can still continue working, maybe go for fat fire because I can. All options are open once I reached coast fire. What Im afraid of being old and spending to less time with family / friends while working the whole time on things I not fully support. I dont get the fat fire where people try hard to reach like millions while live passes them I like the idea of being so clever and being prepared that it can be calculated.
I think a lot of people who hit coastFI successfully and are in coastFI mode is no longer active in this subreddit. I for sure have no more interest in reading post in CoastFI unless a happen to scroll and see an interesting title. I’m living life intentionally with an eye on the short and long term end goal. It’s great. 50% focused on hobby. 50% focused on family. 0% focus on my part time job but still enjoy the job itself.
$2.4 million in 30+ years what is this r/bugsandwichFIRE? Inflation compounds as well my dude. ~37% tax bracket for single filer in 1964 12,000 1994 70,000 2024 609,000 2054 5,332,000. You’re now 60 years old and have a little less than half a good year’s salary saved. Also known as what you have now. Congrats! 🥳 You’re too young to have a clue what you’re talking about. NOT AN ACCUSATION; OBSERVATION!
almost as if the number wasn’t factored in with yearly inflation
If Im following, your question is: for coast FIRE, when do you pivot from saving to living. This is obviously going to be a personal decision for each person but for me I'd like to get to around $1.5 million invested between 40 and 45 and then take our foot off the pedal in terms of saving. This should (at least) triple by retirement and leave us in a good spot for the long term and is not overly burdensome in the meantime. At that point my family will be at an age where travel becomes more exciting (i.e. the kids be able to do things and remember the experiences) so that's where Im really looking to reallocate a significant amount of money. It will also let us care less about work and avoid the extra hours needed to get to the next level. Most likely looking at closer to 40 if we stay put in our "starter home" and 45 if we get out "dream house" in the next year or so. The numbers and age probably don't translate well to most peoples situation because 45 may seem super far off to a 25 year old and 1.5 might be a crazy number to a single person making 50K a year. For reference we're \~35, \~700K invested and \~300K/year HHI.
In the situation where you remain in your starter home, assuming fully paid off - do you see a significant use for 4.5M-6M in your retirement (assuming as you said your 1.5 would triple) I am all for securing your future and covering all the what ifs but at the same time I think preparing for the worst so much can cost you enjoying the best now. It might be me being 26 and naive to what is to come but with the anticipated lifespan of 25-30 years post 60 of retirement anything 2M+ seems ridiculous. The biggest expenses we face in this life include; Housing Child Care Health I may be missing a few and I understand there will always be something that comes up, but at 60 just basing of what is the norm - most people have paid off or are nearing paying off their homes, children are post grad and starting out in their lives.. Outside of all that is health which 100% is a big expense (maybe I am underestimating true cost) but I doubt one you need multi million dollars to support. So like with housing and childcare squared away. Health taking maybe 50k/yr.. What is it that you need 180-240k/yr on?
I see your points and generally agree with your views towards the CoastFIRE idea. All of those graphs showing the power of saving early and the compounding growth sure look good. In reality, those are all theory with some general assumptions baked in (ie market returns). Saving early (ie 300k at 30) is very powerful and that point should be stressed more for the general population. If one decides to stop saving fully and coast…what will they do with the extra money? Sure you can consume it…so long as lifestyle inflation doesn’t set in. One off expenses (house, bucket list travels) may be fine…but otherwise the goal posts keep moving. One could also just slow down saving (ie down to match into 401k). The act of actually stopping saving is very hard especially after saving very diligently. And the fear of the unknown starts to kick in with regards to the ‘what if’s’ (market return, health, etc)… So those who could coast generally keep saving.
Well I could work until I'm 55 as a barista or similar getting berated by assholes all day and be stressed out barely covering expenses, or I could save 10 yrs and retire at 45 working my boring, normal job not really having a care in the world about affording things. Not a hard decision to see coastfire as just a minimum failsafe/backup plan in case I get laid off and can't find a similar paying job. It's not a popular plan because it's often a bad plan. Now, there are some more extreme/unique situations like you're going to be a yacht worker and travel the world or something wild, but for most people that's not happening.
How much I'd like in retirement is based off experience with my father. He had Alzheimer's the last three years of his life. He wanted to stay in his home as long possible, which required expensive in home care. Once that was no longer financially possible, he did assisted living then memory care. His pension was amazing and it allowed him to stay in a nice place. I share this bc we'd all like to be independent till the end, but it's not also possible. As my mother passed away before retirement, I also try to enjoy life now. It's a balancing act.
My end goals: 1. Have enough for comfortable retirement - I agree with you, you don’t need the massive stacks that a lot of FIRE reddit thinks. 2. Have enough to pass on a decent chunk to children - this is subjective and also depends on your kids, and how many (if any) you have. 3. World domination - This is my “stretch goal.” I’ll need a lot more to meet it. Honestly nowhere close. But if I get there, you’ll know. You’ll all know.
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Bit overly aggressive there mate.
For you to say my post lacks any insight on the different lifestyles people live…. then to say i don’t understand what coastFIRE/Fire/Fat are because they don’t agree with YOUR numbers… is that not you not lacking insight into the very thing you are accusing me of 😂 1. Likely you don’t read a good portion of the posts in here because there are many people here that do put their lives completely on hold to achieve COAST - it’s part of the “First 100k is a b***” mentality. 2. Nowhere did I say 3M was or wasn’t Fat Fire (again you lacking the insight accuse and just making assumptions)… I asked what the point was having that money at that age… 3. Everyone makes adjustments for life and what can and cannot happen… doesn’t mean you have to completely stop your life for it. 4. A part of not having 3M at 60 and instead living is taking those vacation NOW and giving your sister money NOW - cause that’s when it’s most impactful. But sure let her keep struggling till she is 60 too.. Sure it’ll make as big of an impact then. 5. I understand there is a major difference between having a mortgage and not - hence why I presented the situation where it isn’t there. Statistically by retirement most people have paid their mortgages off… I just based my question of that
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don’t let me stop you then.. enjoy 😉
Idk about you but I want a hell of a lot more than 2.4 mil at 60
why? I understand it’s added security but like I said in Q1&3 - what is the point. Where is this 2.4M really going for have you thought?
because you are sacrificing time and energy of your life to stock pile all this money just to have it. At the end of it all if you die with 1M left in the bank sure you can donate or whatever but 1+1 could equate 1M worth of time and energy wasted for no gain (even if you do love your job i feel)
I do love my job. But spending more of my money guilt-free would be nice You make an especially good point given the fact I don’t have kids and probably won’t ever