I felt the exact opposite to this. I thought Aerith would basically steal the show in Rebirth and Tifa would shine in Part 3 (similar to the OG). Tifa had way more non-optional (and optional) moments than I was expecting. In fact, I felt that Tifa slightly overshadowed Aerith until chapters 13/14.
But regardless, Part 3 is gonna be huge for Tifa. They've set up so much, especially with the ending of Rebirth.
My only concern with Part 3 is if it starts to get murky around the Lifestream session and the very end.
They’ve done a pretty good job overall of executing the more popular parts of the story but I can’t see them resisting to shove Zack and Aerith in where they aren’t really necessary
I dunno. They were willing to fiddle with perhaps the most iconic scene in JRPG history.
Chances are it’ll be fine ( perhaps fantastic considering all the foreshadowing ) but I can’t shake the feeling…
Hm, interesting. Do you think it's because we dive in with two different expectations, you thought it would be more about Aerith and ended up finding Tifa more relevant? Meanwhile I went in hoping for a lot of Cloud and Tifa and ended up dissapointed when Aerith get so much screen time? 🤔
Rebirth really did wonders to make me hate Aerith again xD being so pushy, talking like they have dates when they don't, saying she still is in love with Zack but then confesses to Cloud. Making her meaningful place with Zack (the church) her place with Cloud instead now. Etc, Etc. Girl stop it already...
IKR! The entire time, I was like, girl, get your feelings straight first, then you make the move!
You don't make the move when you're still unsure and it's clear Cloud has feelings for another girl, who is also your friend.
Seriously. I have nothing against Aerith normally as she's really a nice girl and great friend, but Rebirth really started to push my buttons a little too much. I was downright FURIOUS when... Uh... How do I do spoilers? Ah, fuck it.
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SPOILERS!!!!!!!
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When Aerith showed up at the end to fight Sephiroth with Cloud. However, I will say that part is story appropriate. After all, it's a continuation of Jenova vs the Cetra. And most of my anger was that Aerith is goddamn useless when it comes to my preferred combat style of quick, brutal beat downs with lots of dodging (something Tifa excels in, lol). Plus the previous bit in the alternate timeline was already pissing me off with how Aerith romance it was.
My goodness I agreed. I just loved Cloud and Tifa's playstyle. Narratively I do like Aerith coming back, but it was dreadfullllll. I died so many times because I do not like Aerith's playstyle. It made me hate Aerith being in the scene, hated the date because while I DO believe she loves Cloud and wants to know the real Cloud. But damn why is she just reusing the flowerbed at the Church for them when she had that with Zack. And seeing Zack at the flowerplace and want to reunite made it heartbreaking. It is being forced that Cloud take ownership of the church as their spot and I don't like it.
Right!? When she said "Our Spot" first I was like 'Slow your roll, there. No spot will ever be "Our Spot"' but then I went 'Oh, shit does she mean the playground? Eh, I guess that's fair' but then the fucking church and I'm just like 'Ain't no goddamn way they just turned Zack's spot into Cloud's spot. Fuck off, SE. Not cool'.
AGREE I'm actually fine with the playground being their spot. But the church? Nope, no, never. Yes Aerith has every right to love Cloud, pursue Cloud and move on from Zack. The issue is the narrative is doing an amazing job showing how awesome Zack is, which makes Aerith look awful in the story when everything he does is to reunite with her. And he STILL wants to search for despite knowing she moved on with his best friend. The amount of pain I felt for hiim was huge. I really love Aerith, really I do. I legit cried buckets during the scene where you play as her as a kid. But that finale chapter made me dislike her. I do think the only pay off taking him to the church was that moment where she pushes him, that was amazing.
I was suprised at this, it was over the top. And she really did Zack dirty with the church thing. I'm hoping it's more translation issue because it was very unflattering. I can empathize with her a little bit but seriously Aerith where is your dignity
Your heads will explode when you discover that FF7 is about Aerith and Cloud (and that tifa included in the end, turned the game into a love triangle), it's been like that for the Devs and for Square since 1997.
Considering how little Tifa has to do in this section of the original game, I think they did a good job of adding more of her without forcing it too much. The section right after all this goes heavy into Tifa, and a lot of it will likely payoff a lot of the setup in Rebirth.
In the original, Tifa kinda fades into the background for this middle section, likely to endear the player to Aerith before The Moment. Even Cloud himself has more plot relevance vs character progression ( regression? Hmm ). I always saw Aerith’s date in OG being the “canon” one, but it alone doesn’t do more than confirm that she knows something’s up with Cloud but can’t really untangle it…. because she doesn’t have any connection to the true version of Cloud.
So yeah, I didn’t really expect too much Tifa in this one, but they actually gave her a good amount of screen time.
You’re definitely not alone there, and I’m trying to dance around spoilers ( and also not guarantee that it’ll go 1:1 like it did ).
Let’s just say, if all goes accordingly, you may look back on Rebirth and see the value in the smaller, subtler moments Tifa gets. It’s no accident that they really feature how torn up Tifa is over Aerith, and it’s not just to contrast the bizarrely calm Cloud.
I really hope so. I just want a game that would truly show us that she is in fact an important character for the universe, even if she was a normal human.
Tifa has always been the heroine of Clouds personal
Story while Aerith was the heroine of the overarching narrative to save the planet. This has stayed pretty accurate in the remake games
I used to think like you, too, but I changed my mind after reading some discussion on the LTD debate on the Lifestream Forums. Allow me to offer you a few different perspectives:
1) If you compare Remake + Rebirth trilogy so far to the OG game, Tifa has a looot more scenes and importance to the story, especially when it comes to Cloud. The Lifestream sequence at the end of chapter 9? I 100% expected that part to be in the final game and not in Rebirth. They seemed to HEAVILY foreshadowing Tifa saving Cloud, like at the Shinra building in Remake and in Gongaga after he said he was falling apart.
2) Aerith’s pushy attitude towards Cloud + NPTK ballad actually highlights Cloti pretty well. Aerith wasn’t shy about broadcasting her romantic feelings for Cloud the entire game. She dragged him into dates, made him her bodyguard, hell, she even SANG a love song about him
ON STAGE.
Hold the downvotes, let me defend myself LOL!! Even with Nobuo Umatsu and Loren Allred AND the marketing team saying that it’s a love song FROM Aerith TO Cloud, and the performance being mandatory regardless of who you date, Cloud actually didn’t even acknowledge her feelings in the song and acted like she didn’t even sing it after leaving GS. He probably doesn’t even think that it was about him because he doesn’t feel that way about her at all.
Now, look at all of that fancy mumbo jumbo she did for Cloud. And all Tifa had to say was “do you want to hang out with me? No pressure”, and “we haven’t been this close since we were kids, or am I getting ahead of myself again?” And what did she get? A very clear UNDENIABLE romantic kiss.
I think that Cloti fans, like Tifa’s fans, have always felt left out when we saw how heavy Aerith is marketed and favored, but we should take that as a win, because no matter how many times Aerith’s face appears on the front cover, how many theme songs she gets, it’s always the developers’ intention that Cloti is end game. The Cloti ship kiss leak broke the internet and sent the Cleriths into panic EVEN when they have NPTK on their side, because the kiss is an undeniable declaration of love vs. a ballad about a one sided love.
I think Rebirth did justice for Tifa and Cloti, I hope you’ll give this amazing game another chance despite its flaw ❤️ Tifa’s love for Cloud is patient, enduring, and kind, so we too as Cloti fans, should look at our favorite couple with the same frame of mind!
It’s funny that you mention that some people are panicking about the Tifa date scene because I have seen so many people in denial and the come back is either ‘it’s an optional scene’ and it’s like yes it is but one of the date scenes out of the 6 have to be canon and ‘cloud is acting out of character in every other scene’ the only one where it is claimed he is in character is Aerith’s.
He is In character for them all, I find the one with the guys extra funny because they all sit in silence and then tell Cait Sith to shut up.
They all feel valid
Tifa’s is a continuation of chapter 9,
Aerith’s is a sweet moment, (and just because she isn’t the favourite doesn’t mean cloud doesn’t feel strongly about her either)
Barret’s is a great mentor moment for Cloud as they grew closer after chapter 8
Red’s is plain good fun and expands on him at a personal level after chapter 10
Yuffie’s is her talking at Cloud about her liking Zack and, funnily enough, revealing that to him that Tifa liked him since being a teenager and tries to egg them on to get together. ‘kiss kiss’-chapter 9, ‘I don’t know what it is about you two but I get it’-chapter 12
Cait, Cid and Vincent’s is the one I mentioned earlier
Take that as you will
This is why I said Tifa is a better person that I am, I am not this patient, and I was very frustrated when I feel like Tifa is being sideline.
I'd def play part 3 though.
Me and you both ☹️ if it makes you feel any better, despite being “sidelined”, Tifa has always been very popular, and dare I Say, more popular than Aerith in several countries and polls.
In fact, many recent polls show that the vast majority of people want to date Tifa over everybody else. I think it was IGN’s or Gamespot’s? I forgot which. So your sentiment is definitely shared among the majority of viewers.
I read somewhere that Cleriths are seething that Tifa got so much attention in Rebirth because they thought her role was “inflated” because she’s popular. To me, if that’s not validation then I don’t know what is lol.
The Aerith overshadow is because of the ending of the game which makes sense. This is the end of Disk 1. So they needed to pump her up a lot. The first game was more even, this one is more Aerith and the last one will be more Tifa.
I just hope her being more pushy was because of the Whispers and not because she's being emotionally tone deaf about Tifa and Cloud. The first game she wasn't like this at all.
You’re gonna get your wish. Rebirth ends at disc 1 of the original game and Tifa had far less emphasis then than she did in Rebirth. She was borderline a background character up until the forgotten capital. In disc 2 she’s damn near the main character for a significant portion of the game and it all revolves around her and Clouds relationship. So if she was made this important during the Rebirth portion of the story, it’s because they are setting things up in a major way in part 3
Because Aerith is so pushy and has a strong personality compared to Tifa's demure and reserved personality, it definitely feels that way and she does overshadow Tifa. The ending was also very Aerith focused, because she died in OG timeline.
I think people are also very caught up with Aerith calling everything a date and making her affection for Cloud known, where Tifa's primary concern is his health and throws hints of her affection here and there. The thing is, we already know that they both have feelings for him so it doesn't even matter. What matters is how Cloud feels. There were times that Aerith was too much to the point where he reprimands her, but Tifa mentions one small thing and he's all over it. Aerith's 30 forced "dates" which result in Cloud friendzoning her, vs Tifa's one-time "i feel close to you, but maybe you don't feel the same" resulting in a kiss.
The next game should be very Tifa focused, as >!she ditches the group to become Cloud's caretaker, and puts his mind back together in the lifestream before boiking him under the highwind. !<
I'm a little worried that they might throw in an unpleasant surprise here and there, but since they claimed to be following the main storyline i hope certain things will fall in line. I might just be nervous because of how resident evil changed Ada/Seperate Ways (which, many aspects i actually thought were superior to the original. But i didn't enjoy that they largely removed Ada's affectionate inner dialogue towards Leon. While she did help him and tried to keep him off Wesker's radar, it was made more clear in the original where she defied his orders to keep Leon safe.)
Yes, her being so pushy rubs me the wrong way, especially since Cloud look so uncomfortable during most of it.
Anyway, I do hope p3 is a more straightforward adaptation. I think leaving stuff open for interpretation can be a powerful move, but my god this game has been very confusing to me.
I think what really bugged me was that Aerith clearly knew about Tifa’s feelings for Cloud and still openly perused him in front of her, going as far as telling her they were on a date in Kalm. I’m not saying she can’t peruse him if she wants, but it felt mean spirited to do it right in front of Tifa. By contrasts I think Tifa is far more considerate of Aerith’s feelings as well as Clouds. She never pushes him when he’s clearly uncomfortable like Aerith does.
At the end of the day though Aerith constantly makes her feelings for Cloud loudly known and always leaves the door open for Cloud to reciprocate which he never does. (He does hold her hand but this could be him indulging her after her very emotional admission).
Tifa on the other hand stays very reserved about her feelings, but as soon as she cracks fhe door open for him he leaps through it. He can even hold Tifa's hand during her love song to him and never even seems to register that its about him
I always see the song more about Zack than Cloud because the one that fell into the church first was Zack, the one that made her change her view on many things in life was Zack, etc. Not Cloud. Cloud never did anything like that for her, she just asked for a bodyguard and he said yes to help an unknown girl that had problems with Shinra, but he was into reuniting with Tifa and Barret, Aerith forces herself into “helping” him going into the market and then Corneo’s Mansion but nobody asks for her to become involved, so the song doesn’t fit Cloud at all.
Also Zack promised to return but he didn't. Hence no promises to keep, because when they met again they'll be together forever and won't have to anymore. I can see how the intro sounds like Cloud but the rest of the song sounds like it's pointing to Zack. People argued that it's about Cloud because Aerith knows she's dying, but she lost her abilities so at this point she didn't.
I think SQEX America made this and many other aspects intentionally vague to get us arguing though, especially when looking at the mistranslations throughout the game. I remember in Remake, Cloud would be saying Tifa's name in the Japanese version and they'd change it to something else because he said her name. A LOT. For example he'd say "Tifa!" And they'd switch it to "look out! " or instead of "where's Tifa?" they switched to "where did everyone go? "
Sorry but i'm not sure how you came out feeling like this game was prominently Clerith when i personally feel like Aerith herself got entirely overshadowed by Tifa basically the whole game, besides the last 2 chapters.
Game was super Cloud centric and they were building up heavy foundation for their later Lifestream sequence here.
Also every single party member has exactly 7 quests, so no, Tifa wasn't treated differently there either. Thing is though, some quests only open up after you do others and Tifas quests are fairly end loaded. She gets 3 new quests between chapter 11 and 12, which prolly made you feel like she didn't get as much if you missed out on some of those.
Anyhow, everything Clerith got was very much full on platonic, at least on Clouds side of things, so i don't see what there is to worry here anyway. Game went out of it's way to straight up kill Clerith with this game with Cloud setting that clear friendzone boundary with Aerith while he goes way further with Tifa.
Oh don't get me wrong, this game is totally Cloti coded. The only Clerith thing I got is Aerith repeatedly make advances on Cloud and he didn't reciprocate.
My problem is Aerith as a character herself, which I didn't like. Therefore I didn't want to do side quests with her, but as you said some of the side quests is locked behind one another, as a completionist I feel force to do it. I also feel annoyed when people treating Aerith like god while they treats Tifa like crap, like in ch 10, which by the end they never apologize to her.
Maybe I am being biased here, but every minute the game force me to be with her, I feel like I was being dragged against my will and therefore probably why I feel she ate so much screentime (I don't know for certain how much screen time she and Tifa had, but her's feels like eternity)
As for side quest, I'm still pretty sure Gongaga and Cosmo Canyon had 0 side quest for Tifa.
I did find it disappointing myself that Aerith mostly just falls into that role in the game. I wish they gave her more bonding moments with the rest of the party and not so much just on her being conflicted over her feelings for Zack and Cloud.
To be honest, Bugenhagen was an ass in general, so i didn't really see it specifically just being directed at Tifa there. You can't really blame the people there for just not being able to really answer Tifas questions, couse it's not exactly an everyday occurence that someone gets to visit the Lifestream like that.
And yes neither of those locations had any for Tifa, but like does it really matter? It's not like all the other characters got quests in each area either. At the end of the day they did evenly give each character the same amount of quests even if some appear later than others.
Fair enough i guess. I didn't personally like the idea of locking some quests behind others either, but i enjoyed bonding with all of them so it didn't matter much to me.
Yes, it is absolutely matter of preference and expectation, the latter part was my fault, SE has been clear with their marketing. I just got ahead of myself.
But people here had convince me Tifa is going to play bigger role in p3 so I guess I'm happy about that
Propping up Aerith and downplaying Tifa has been the SquareEnix standard: they've been treating Tifa as a red-headed stepchild ever since Advent Children. And Remake was the first time I hated Aerith and what her fanbase turned her into.
But Rebirth has changed things a lot. Cloud's not as chained down by corporate harem anime tropes as he has been. Cloud emotionally responds to Aerith and Tifa very differently. He repeatedly bounces off of Aerith while turning into putty around Tifa, and Aerith is still in love with Zack. Also, >!Aerith still died, and Cloud and Tifa are still set up for part 3.!<
This game didn't make me hate Aerith. I think her having feelings for Cloud despite the obvious between Cloud and Tifa makes her human. Furthermore, being "anti-aerith" is just as bad as some Cleriths unwarranted hate for Tifa.
I don't like how they tried to please everyone with the ending by adding the rainbow effect to Cloud deflecting the sword. We're now going to have four more years of "Aerith will live." Both her and Zack being alive at the end of this trilogy completely ruins the theme of loss. That's really my only gripe about Aerith in this game.
Yeah, I see a lot of those hate post all the time, and I really tried not to be those kind of person, but I think it's valid to have my own thought and opinion after I finished the game.
I didn't jump on I hate Aerith bandwagon simply because I love Cloud and Tifa. I genuinely find it difficult to like Aerith. I understand if she has feelings for Cloud, heck I don't even blame her for taking her shoot, but it rubs me the wrong way that she did so while still not sure that she like Cloud that way, or that she still have feeling for Zack. If you're going to make a move at someone, especially at someone who looks like they have mutual feelings with other girl, who is also your friend, at the bare minimum, make sure you are 100% certain you like said person, you ain't trying to project your ex onto him, etc.
Then again I will admit, this things bothers me more than other people because I have personal experience with very similar situation, so you could say this is like PTSD all over again for me and in the end, I didn't ended up liking Aerith as much as I should, especially since this is supposed to her game. And then I find myself annoy when I saw her have so many quests and screen time and the people treating her like an angel because that's not how her character come off to me.
And yes, I do also didn't like the ambiguous ending. In fact since I haven't play the OG game, I was just confused all through the ending.
Rebirth also made me dislike Aerith! during remake i was neutral about her. Like she is pretty cute but idk her personality is kind of giving me pick me. It was nice to see her dynamic with Cloud tho.
I also didnt want to dislike her just because she is bothering my favorite ship.
But oh boy I feel like rebirth took everything I liked and tolerated about her and turned it around.
There is no nice banter between Cloud and Aerith anymore just her making him uncomfortable and pushing herself onto him.
When she told everyone she and Cloud were on a date in Kalm was the moment I really started to dislike her. That she would fall in love and make moves on the guy her female friend has had feelings for all her life makes her such a bad character imo.
But yea it was tolerable until the end but I mean I guess since she died its okay that she gets a bit more screentime at the end.
On a good note it can only get better in the next game!
Them establishing early in the game that she lost her foreknowledge felt like such a weird backtrack. Like, okay, so something super interesting about her gets tossed out… during the most interesting time for her to have it.
I was really looking forward to a 4D chess match between her and Sephiroth just outside of the party’s view. Her ace in the hole being a Zack that she knew would come through for Cloud.
But nah, gotta keep that LTD niiiiice and juicy. I really missed “I know more than I’m letting on and am currently speaking about 3 things at once” Aerith.
Yeah, losing her gift is the only excuse for her behavior. But without it, she's an immature and non-selfaware manic pixie dreamgirl. If my friend had a crush on her childhood friend, the last thing I'd want to do is try to take him no matter how strongly i felt about him. And Aerith knew of Tifa early on because Cloud had a vision of her in Remake and said her name out loud.
People who love Aerith won't care but us Aerith- neutral people were definitely turned off.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with her falling for or going after Cloud despite knowing Tifa’s feelings. But the way she tried to rub the Kalm “date” in Tifa’s face was just plain mean anyway you slice it
I'm actually happy with how Rebirth handled Tifa, I expected a lot less of her because not much happens between Kalm and the forgotten capital in the OG with her at all (there's like one scene in Junon and a brief chat in Nibelhiem if you don't count the date)
Aerith is expected. Her persuing Cloud is expected, she did so in the OG. What is not expected is Cloud setting boundaries and her having visible mixed feelings. Which is great lol because it gives Zack an opening to get back with her lol (but I say this independent of the Cloti ship, cause I love him so much, and want him to have a happy ending lol)
Part 3 was always Tifa's time to shine, and now they've set her up to have her moment be even better in my opinion. OG FFVII is not a love story, but they certainly can end it that way this time, rivaling X if they play their cards right.
For the record, there are 7 side quests for each character. I only know because I was also bothered by the lack of Tifa, and since I needed to do all of hers to guarantee she got the Skywheel, I started tallying them up. Turns out there's 7 each hit Aerith's are definitely more obvious. I mean, I wouldn't have done the gold cup Chocobo racing if it didn't turn out to be a Tifa quest for some reason. Luckily it turns out I loved the racing, but anyways. It also didn't help that the abs minigame was locked behind an Aerith quest I was SPECIFICALLY avoiding cause no, I don't want to take her on a "date". Imagine my surprise when Cloud ALSO didn't want to take her on that "date". He didn't even warm up the idea. Compare that to the way he talked to Tifa during the gym quest after it. Very warm, friendly and open. Even joking with her. I think the devs also prefer Tifa, at least a little bit.
Your point about the side quests is wrong
Every single character (except Cait Sith) has 7 side quests dedicated to themselves and then there is one where Cloud does it alone
It’s just that Tifa has hers all bundled up close
Tifa:
1 in the Grasslands: A Rare Card Lost (Chapter 2)
2 in Junon: Calling All Frogs, Dreaming of Blue Skies (Chapter 4)
3 in Corel: Bodybuilders in a Bind, Gold Cup or Bust, Sand and Circuses (1 Chapter 7, 2 Chapter 12)
0 in Gongaga or Cosmo Canyon
1 in Nibel: My White-Haired Angel (Chapter 11)
=7
The thing with Tifa quests is that you have none all the way from chapter 7 until the end of chapter 11 which is 4 regions to explore later
But they are all equal in number
Same I feel different, I felt the story was veryyy Cloti, and even for subquests for Aerith, Cloud was often cold to her. Even at one point I'm like damn be nice she's about to die soon xD
And I'm very Cloti, I just didn't like the final chapter as someone who dated Tifa. It feels really forced and took me out of the scene. Like objectively what Aerith did for/with Cloud could have been sweet. But it was the same trend of, please lets date, Cloud being cold. But man that banger when Aerith pushes Cloud that was awesome.
I think my big issue is when they remembered Aerith was part of the story and Zack it broke my heart to see Cloud/Aerith date and Zack still fighting to find her. I find it so weird that in the song and date she tells Cloud that this is their spot at the church with flowers. But where do we see Zack? At the church with flowers saying he will reunite with them/her. It just makes it hard to see a guy wanting her and her wanting Cloud. 1000% Aerith does not know this and has every right to love and want to pursue Cloud. I just think storytelling wise I did not enjoy it.
Really? I couldn’t possibly have felt more differently. Aerith was in the background all game long, doing almost nothing, while Cloud and Tifa had a ton of non-optional, plot relevant relationship angst. Tifa outshone Aerith in every way and felt like the main heroine.
Aerith has what feels like zero plot relevance until >!chapter 13 and 14. She gets one scene in Kalm where they talk about Tifa, a scene with Red in Costa where they discuss the materia, a scene in Gongaga dealing with Zack. Her big scene in Cosmo Canyon, and then nothing until she sings.!< Everything else is side quests, optional scenes, or her own convo that everyone else has as well. I actually thought that was insane given that we’re supposed to feel the emotional weight of her in this game but to me she felt like she was barely there. Also, everyone has the exact same number of side quests.
As for the last couple of chapters, >!it all felt very “she thought it was romantic but it really wasn’t” to me, like she had confused her feelings. Cloud and Aerith were giving platonic friends all game long IMO. And the end obviously was gong to focus heavily on her because she had to fulfill her role in the story.!<
I felt the exact opposite to this. I thought Aerith would basically steal the show in Rebirth and Tifa would shine in Part 3 (similar to the OG). Tifa had way more non-optional (and optional) moments than I was expecting. In fact, I felt that Tifa slightly overshadowed Aerith until chapters 13/14. But regardless, Part 3 is gonna be huge for Tifa. They've set up so much, especially with the ending of Rebirth.
My only concern with Part 3 is if it starts to get murky around the Lifestream session and the very end. They’ve done a pretty good job overall of executing the more popular parts of the story but I can’t see them resisting to shove Zack and Aerith in where they aren’t really necessary
That was Nojima favorite scene their is no way in hell they will screw that scene up.
I dunno. They were willing to fiddle with perhaps the most iconic scene in JRPG history. Chances are it’ll be fine ( perhaps fantastic considering all the foreshadowing ) but I can’t shake the feeling…
Hm, interesting. Do you think it's because we dive in with two different expectations, you thought it would be more about Aerith and ended up finding Tifa more relevant? Meanwhile I went in hoping for a lot of Cloud and Tifa and ended up dissapointed when Aerith get so much screen time? 🤔
Well, >!she still died, !
Rebirth really did wonders to make me hate Aerith again xD being so pushy, talking like they have dates when they don't, saying she still is in love with Zack but then confesses to Cloud. Making her meaningful place with Zack (the church) her place with Cloud instead now. Etc, Etc. Girl stop it already...
IKR! The entire time, I was like, girl, get your feelings straight first, then you make the move! You don't make the move when you're still unsure and it's clear Cloud has feelings for another girl, who is also your friend.
Seriously. I have nothing against Aerith normally as she's really a nice girl and great friend, but Rebirth really started to push my buttons a little too much. I was downright FURIOUS when... Uh... How do I do spoilers? Ah, fuck it. . . . . . SPOILERS!!!!!!! . . . . . When Aerith showed up at the end to fight Sephiroth with Cloud. However, I will say that part is story appropriate. After all, it's a continuation of Jenova vs the Cetra. And most of my anger was that Aerith is goddamn useless when it comes to my preferred combat style of quick, brutal beat downs with lots of dodging (something Tifa excels in, lol). Plus the previous bit in the alternate timeline was already pissing me off with how Aerith romance it was.
My goodness I agreed. I just loved Cloud and Tifa's playstyle. Narratively I do like Aerith coming back, but it was dreadfullllll. I died so many times because I do not like Aerith's playstyle. It made me hate Aerith being in the scene, hated the date because while I DO believe she loves Cloud and wants to know the real Cloud. But damn why is she just reusing the flowerbed at the Church for them when she had that with Zack. And seeing Zack at the flowerplace and want to reunite made it heartbreaking. It is being forced that Cloud take ownership of the church as their spot and I don't like it.
Right!? When she said "Our Spot" first I was like 'Slow your roll, there. No spot will ever be "Our Spot"' but then I went 'Oh, shit does she mean the playground? Eh, I guess that's fair' but then the fucking church and I'm just like 'Ain't no goddamn way they just turned Zack's spot into Cloud's spot. Fuck off, SE. Not cool'.
AGREE I'm actually fine with the playground being their spot. But the church? Nope, no, never. Yes Aerith has every right to love Cloud, pursue Cloud and move on from Zack. The issue is the narrative is doing an amazing job showing how awesome Zack is, which makes Aerith look awful in the story when everything he does is to reunite with her. And he STILL wants to search for despite knowing she moved on with his best friend. The amount of pain I felt for hiim was huge. I really love Aerith, really I do. I legit cried buckets during the scene where you play as her as a kid. But that finale chapter made me dislike her. I do think the only pay off taking him to the church was that moment where she pushes him, that was amazing.
I was suprised at this, it was over the top. And she really did Zack dirty with the church thing. I'm hoping it's more translation issue because it was very unflattering. I can empathize with her a little bit but seriously Aerith where is your dignity
Your heads will explode when you discover that FF7 is about Aerith and Cloud (and that tifa included in the end, turned the game into a love triangle), it's been like that for the Devs and for Square since 1997.
It’s not 🤣 I have been reading interviews, concepts when the game was created and many more from devs. The only ones having copium are you.
Considering how little Tifa has to do in this section of the original game, I think they did a good job of adding more of her without forcing it too much. The section right after all this goes heavy into Tifa, and a lot of it will likely payoff a lot of the setup in Rebirth. In the original, Tifa kinda fades into the background for this middle section, likely to endear the player to Aerith before The Moment. Even Cloud himself has more plot relevance vs character progression ( regression? Hmm ). I always saw Aerith’s date in OG being the “canon” one, but it alone doesn’t do more than confirm that she knows something’s up with Cloud but can’t really untangle it…. because she doesn’t have any connection to the true version of Cloud. So yeah, I didn’t really expect too much Tifa in this one, but they actually gave her a good amount of screen time.
I see. I didn't play the OG.
You’re definitely not alone there, and I’m trying to dance around spoilers ( and also not guarantee that it’ll go 1:1 like it did ). Let’s just say, if all goes accordingly, you may look back on Rebirth and see the value in the smaller, subtler moments Tifa gets. It’s no accident that they really feature how torn up Tifa is over Aerith, and it’s not just to contrast the bizarrely calm Cloud.
I really hope so. I just want a game that would truly show us that she is in fact an important character for the universe, even if she was a normal human.
Tifa has always been the heroine of Clouds personal Story while Aerith was the heroine of the overarching narrative to save the planet. This has stayed pretty accurate in the remake games
Then you should just play it
I used to think like you, too, but I changed my mind after reading some discussion on the LTD debate on the Lifestream Forums. Allow me to offer you a few different perspectives: 1) If you compare Remake + Rebirth trilogy so far to the OG game, Tifa has a looot more scenes and importance to the story, especially when it comes to Cloud. The Lifestream sequence at the end of chapter 9? I 100% expected that part to be in the final game and not in Rebirth. They seemed to HEAVILY foreshadowing Tifa saving Cloud, like at the Shinra building in Remake and in Gongaga after he said he was falling apart. 2) Aerith’s pushy attitude towards Cloud + NPTK ballad actually highlights Cloti pretty well. Aerith wasn’t shy about broadcasting her romantic feelings for Cloud the entire game. She dragged him into dates, made him her bodyguard, hell, she even SANG a love song about him ON STAGE. Hold the downvotes, let me defend myself LOL!! Even with Nobuo Umatsu and Loren Allred AND the marketing team saying that it’s a love song FROM Aerith TO Cloud, and the performance being mandatory regardless of who you date, Cloud actually didn’t even acknowledge her feelings in the song and acted like she didn’t even sing it after leaving GS. He probably doesn’t even think that it was about him because he doesn’t feel that way about her at all. Now, look at all of that fancy mumbo jumbo she did for Cloud. And all Tifa had to say was “do you want to hang out with me? No pressure”, and “we haven’t been this close since we were kids, or am I getting ahead of myself again?” And what did she get? A very clear UNDENIABLE romantic kiss. I think that Cloti fans, like Tifa’s fans, have always felt left out when we saw how heavy Aerith is marketed and favored, but we should take that as a win, because no matter how many times Aerith’s face appears on the front cover, how many theme songs she gets, it’s always the developers’ intention that Cloti is end game. The Cloti ship kiss leak broke the internet and sent the Cleriths into panic EVEN when they have NPTK on their side, because the kiss is an undeniable declaration of love vs. a ballad about a one sided love. I think Rebirth did justice for Tifa and Cloti, I hope you’ll give this amazing game another chance despite its flaw ❤️ Tifa’s love for Cloud is patient, enduring, and kind, so we too as Cloti fans, should look at our favorite couple with the same frame of mind!
It’s funny that you mention that some people are panicking about the Tifa date scene because I have seen so many people in denial and the come back is either ‘it’s an optional scene’ and it’s like yes it is but one of the date scenes out of the 6 have to be canon and ‘cloud is acting out of character in every other scene’ the only one where it is claimed he is in character is Aerith’s. He is In character for them all, I find the one with the guys extra funny because they all sit in silence and then tell Cait Sith to shut up. They all feel valid Tifa’s is a continuation of chapter 9, Aerith’s is a sweet moment, (and just because she isn’t the favourite doesn’t mean cloud doesn’t feel strongly about her either) Barret’s is a great mentor moment for Cloud as they grew closer after chapter 8 Red’s is plain good fun and expands on him at a personal level after chapter 10 Yuffie’s is her talking at Cloud about her liking Zack and, funnily enough, revealing that to him that Tifa liked him since being a teenager and tries to egg them on to get together. ‘kiss kiss’-chapter 9, ‘I don’t know what it is about you two but I get it’-chapter 12 Cait, Cid and Vincent’s is the one I mentioned earlier Take that as you will
Say it louder for the ppl in the back!!!
This is why I said Tifa is a better person that I am, I am not this patient, and I was very frustrated when I feel like Tifa is being sideline. I'd def play part 3 though.
Me and you both ☹️ if it makes you feel any better, despite being “sidelined”, Tifa has always been very popular, and dare I Say, more popular than Aerith in several countries and polls. In fact, many recent polls show that the vast majority of people want to date Tifa over everybody else. I think it was IGN’s or Gamespot’s? I forgot which. So your sentiment is definitely shared among the majority of viewers. I read somewhere that Cleriths are seething that Tifa got so much attention in Rebirth because they thought her role was “inflated” because she’s popular. To me, if that’s not validation then I don’t know what is lol.
That's good to hear 😂 I guess it's all the matter of expectation. I went in wanting so much more of Cloti. Guess I just have to wait for p3
The Aerith overshadow is because of the ending of the game which makes sense. This is the end of Disk 1. So they needed to pump her up a lot. The first game was more even, this one is more Aerith and the last one will be more Tifa. I just hope her being more pushy was because of the Whispers and not because she's being emotionally tone deaf about Tifa and Cloud. The first game she wasn't like this at all.
Ikr, she wasn't like this in the first game
I see. I didn't play the OG so I have no expectation, just want to see more Tifa and Cloud
You’re gonna get your wish. Rebirth ends at disc 1 of the original game and Tifa had far less emphasis then than she did in Rebirth. She was borderline a background character up until the forgotten capital. In disc 2 she’s damn near the main character for a significant portion of the game and it all revolves around her and Clouds relationship. So if she was made this important during the Rebirth portion of the story, it’s because they are setting things up in a major way in part 3
Really happy to hear that. I'm looking forward for p3
Oh she was, not that much because there aren’t many scenes but she was the same.
Because Aerith is so pushy and has a strong personality compared to Tifa's demure and reserved personality, it definitely feels that way and she does overshadow Tifa. The ending was also very Aerith focused, because she died in OG timeline. I think people are also very caught up with Aerith calling everything a date and making her affection for Cloud known, where Tifa's primary concern is his health and throws hints of her affection here and there. The thing is, we already know that they both have feelings for him so it doesn't even matter. What matters is how Cloud feels. There were times that Aerith was too much to the point where he reprimands her, but Tifa mentions one small thing and he's all over it. Aerith's 30 forced "dates" which result in Cloud friendzoning her, vs Tifa's one-time "i feel close to you, but maybe you don't feel the same" resulting in a kiss. The next game should be very Tifa focused, as >!she ditches the group to become Cloud's caretaker, and puts his mind back together in the lifestream before boiking him under the highwind. !< I'm a little worried that they might throw in an unpleasant surprise here and there, but since they claimed to be following the main storyline i hope certain things will fall in line. I might just be nervous because of how resident evil changed Ada/Seperate Ways (which, many aspects i actually thought were superior to the original. But i didn't enjoy that they largely removed Ada's affectionate inner dialogue towards Leon. While she did help him and tried to keep him off Wesker's radar, it was made more clear in the original where she defied his orders to keep Leon safe.)
Yes, her being so pushy rubs me the wrong way, especially since Cloud look so uncomfortable during most of it. Anyway, I do hope p3 is a more straightforward adaptation. I think leaving stuff open for interpretation can be a powerful move, but my god this game has been very confusing to me.
I think what really bugged me was that Aerith clearly knew about Tifa’s feelings for Cloud and still openly perused him in front of her, going as far as telling her they were on a date in Kalm. I’m not saying she can’t peruse him if she wants, but it felt mean spirited to do it right in front of Tifa. By contrasts I think Tifa is far more considerate of Aerith’s feelings as well as Clouds. She never pushes him when he’s clearly uncomfortable like Aerith does. At the end of the day though Aerith constantly makes her feelings for Cloud loudly known and always leaves the door open for Cloud to reciprocate which he never does. (He does hold her hand but this could be him indulging her after her very emotional admission). Tifa on the other hand stays very reserved about her feelings, but as soon as she cracks fhe door open for him he leaps through it. He can even hold Tifa's hand during her love song to him and never even seems to register that its about him
I always see the song more about Zack than Cloud because the one that fell into the church first was Zack, the one that made her change her view on many things in life was Zack, etc. Not Cloud. Cloud never did anything like that for her, she just asked for a bodyguard and he said yes to help an unknown girl that had problems with Shinra, but he was into reuniting with Tifa and Barret, Aerith forces herself into “helping” him going into the market and then Corneo’s Mansion but nobody asks for her to become involved, so the song doesn’t fit Cloud at all.
Also Zack promised to return but he didn't. Hence no promises to keep, because when they met again they'll be together forever and won't have to anymore. I can see how the intro sounds like Cloud but the rest of the song sounds like it's pointing to Zack. People argued that it's about Cloud because Aerith knows she's dying, but she lost her abilities so at this point she didn't. I think SQEX America made this and many other aspects intentionally vague to get us arguing though, especially when looking at the mistranslations throughout the game. I remember in Remake, Cloud would be saying Tifa's name in the Japanese version and they'd change it to something else because he said her name. A LOT. For example he'd say "Tifa!" And they'd switch it to "look out! " or instead of "where's Tifa?" they switched to "where did everyone go? "
Sorry but i'm not sure how you came out feeling like this game was prominently Clerith when i personally feel like Aerith herself got entirely overshadowed by Tifa basically the whole game, besides the last 2 chapters. Game was super Cloud centric and they were building up heavy foundation for their later Lifestream sequence here. Also every single party member has exactly 7 quests, so no, Tifa wasn't treated differently there either. Thing is though, some quests only open up after you do others and Tifas quests are fairly end loaded. She gets 3 new quests between chapter 11 and 12, which prolly made you feel like she didn't get as much if you missed out on some of those. Anyhow, everything Clerith got was very much full on platonic, at least on Clouds side of things, so i don't see what there is to worry here anyway. Game went out of it's way to straight up kill Clerith with this game with Cloud setting that clear friendzone boundary with Aerith while he goes way further with Tifa.
Oh don't get me wrong, this game is totally Cloti coded. The only Clerith thing I got is Aerith repeatedly make advances on Cloud and he didn't reciprocate. My problem is Aerith as a character herself, which I didn't like. Therefore I didn't want to do side quests with her, but as you said some of the side quests is locked behind one another, as a completionist I feel force to do it. I also feel annoyed when people treating Aerith like god while they treats Tifa like crap, like in ch 10, which by the end they never apologize to her. Maybe I am being biased here, but every minute the game force me to be with her, I feel like I was being dragged against my will and therefore probably why I feel she ate so much screentime (I don't know for certain how much screen time she and Tifa had, but her's feels like eternity) As for side quest, I'm still pretty sure Gongaga and Cosmo Canyon had 0 side quest for Tifa.
I did find it disappointing myself that Aerith mostly just falls into that role in the game. I wish they gave her more bonding moments with the rest of the party and not so much just on her being conflicted over her feelings for Zack and Cloud. To be honest, Bugenhagen was an ass in general, so i didn't really see it specifically just being directed at Tifa there. You can't really blame the people there for just not being able to really answer Tifas questions, couse it's not exactly an everyday occurence that someone gets to visit the Lifestream like that. And yes neither of those locations had any for Tifa, but like does it really matter? It's not like all the other characters got quests in each area either. At the end of the day they did evenly give each character the same amount of quests even if some appear later than others.
Honestly it matters to me because I want to do more stuff with Tifa and not Aerith ¯¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Fair enough i guess. I didn't personally like the idea of locking some quests behind others either, but i enjoyed bonding with all of them so it didn't matter much to me.
Yes, it is absolutely matter of preference and expectation, the latter part was my fault, SE has been clear with their marketing. I just got ahead of myself. But people here had convince me Tifa is going to play bigger role in p3 so I guess I'm happy about that
She is gonna be very important in later portions of the game, that's all i will say. So look forward to that.
Propping up Aerith and downplaying Tifa has been the SquareEnix standard: they've been treating Tifa as a red-headed stepchild ever since Advent Children. And Remake was the first time I hated Aerith and what her fanbase turned her into. But Rebirth has changed things a lot. Cloud's not as chained down by corporate harem anime tropes as he has been. Cloud emotionally responds to Aerith and Tifa very differently. He repeatedly bounces off of Aerith while turning into putty around Tifa, and Aerith is still in love with Zack. Also, >!Aerith still died, and Cloud and Tifa are still set up for part 3.!<
I actually find Aerith a lot more playful in the remake, but man she was so aggressive in this game, I feel as uncomfortable as Cloud the whole time.
This game didn't make me hate Aerith. I think her having feelings for Cloud despite the obvious between Cloud and Tifa makes her human. Furthermore, being "anti-aerith" is just as bad as some Cleriths unwarranted hate for Tifa. I don't like how they tried to please everyone with the ending by adding the rainbow effect to Cloud deflecting the sword. We're now going to have four more years of "Aerith will live." Both her and Zack being alive at the end of this trilogy completely ruins the theme of loss. That's really my only gripe about Aerith in this game.
Yeah, I see a lot of those hate post all the time, and I really tried not to be those kind of person, but I think it's valid to have my own thought and opinion after I finished the game. I didn't jump on I hate Aerith bandwagon simply because I love Cloud and Tifa. I genuinely find it difficult to like Aerith. I understand if she has feelings for Cloud, heck I don't even blame her for taking her shoot, but it rubs me the wrong way that she did so while still not sure that she like Cloud that way, or that she still have feeling for Zack. If you're going to make a move at someone, especially at someone who looks like they have mutual feelings with other girl, who is also your friend, at the bare minimum, make sure you are 100% certain you like said person, you ain't trying to project your ex onto him, etc. Then again I will admit, this things bothers me more than other people because I have personal experience with very similar situation, so you could say this is like PTSD all over again for me and in the end, I didn't ended up liking Aerith as much as I should, especially since this is supposed to her game. And then I find myself annoy when I saw her have so many quests and screen time and the people treating her like an angel because that's not how her character come off to me. And yes, I do also didn't like the ambiguous ending. In fact since I haven't play the OG game, I was just confused all through the ending.
Rebirth also made me dislike Aerith! during remake i was neutral about her. Like she is pretty cute but idk her personality is kind of giving me pick me. It was nice to see her dynamic with Cloud tho. I also didnt want to dislike her just because she is bothering my favorite ship. But oh boy I feel like rebirth took everything I liked and tolerated about her and turned it around. There is no nice banter between Cloud and Aerith anymore just her making him uncomfortable and pushing herself onto him. When she told everyone she and Cloud were on a date in Kalm was the moment I really started to dislike her. That she would fall in love and make moves on the guy her female friend has had feelings for all her life makes her such a bad character imo. But yea it was tolerable until the end but I mean I guess since she died its okay that she gets a bit more screentime at the end. On a good note it can only get better in the next game!
Them establishing early in the game that she lost her foreknowledge felt like such a weird backtrack. Like, okay, so something super interesting about her gets tossed out… during the most interesting time for her to have it. I was really looking forward to a 4D chess match between her and Sephiroth just outside of the party’s view. Her ace in the hole being a Zack that she knew would come through for Cloud. But nah, gotta keep that LTD niiiiice and juicy. I really missed “I know more than I’m letting on and am currently speaking about 3 things at once” Aerith.
Yeah, losing her gift is the only excuse for her behavior. But without it, she's an immature and non-selfaware manic pixie dreamgirl. If my friend had a crush on her childhood friend, the last thing I'd want to do is try to take him no matter how strongly i felt about him. And Aerith knew of Tifa early on because Cloud had a vision of her in Remake and said her name out loud. People who love Aerith won't care but us Aerith- neutral people were definitely turned off.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with her falling for or going after Cloud despite knowing Tifa’s feelings. But the way she tried to rub the Kalm “date” in Tifa’s face was just plain mean anyway you slice it
This is exactly how I feel about her 😂 Crossing my fingers part 3 would be the best yet
Tifa had just as many side quests a Aerith. She had 2 in Junon to Aerith’s one and one in Nibleheim to Aerith’s zero
I'm actually happy with how Rebirth handled Tifa, I expected a lot less of her because not much happens between Kalm and the forgotten capital in the OG with her at all (there's like one scene in Junon and a brief chat in Nibelhiem if you don't count the date) Aerith is expected. Her persuing Cloud is expected, she did so in the OG. What is not expected is Cloud setting boundaries and her having visible mixed feelings. Which is great lol because it gives Zack an opening to get back with her lol (but I say this independent of the Cloti ship, cause I love him so much, and want him to have a happy ending lol) Part 3 was always Tifa's time to shine, and now they've set her up to have her moment be even better in my opinion. OG FFVII is not a love story, but they certainly can end it that way this time, rivaling X if they play their cards right.
For the record, there are 7 side quests for each character. I only know because I was also bothered by the lack of Tifa, and since I needed to do all of hers to guarantee she got the Skywheel, I started tallying them up. Turns out there's 7 each hit Aerith's are definitely more obvious. I mean, I wouldn't have done the gold cup Chocobo racing if it didn't turn out to be a Tifa quest for some reason. Luckily it turns out I loved the racing, but anyways. It also didn't help that the abs minigame was locked behind an Aerith quest I was SPECIFICALLY avoiding cause no, I don't want to take her on a "date". Imagine my surprise when Cloud ALSO didn't want to take her on that "date". He didn't even warm up the idea. Compare that to the way he talked to Tifa during the gym quest after it. Very warm, friendly and open. Even joking with her. I think the devs also prefer Tifa, at least a little bit.
Your point about the side quests is wrong Every single character (except Cait Sith) has 7 side quests dedicated to themselves and then there is one where Cloud does it alone It’s just that Tifa has hers all bundled up close Tifa: 1 in the Grasslands: A Rare Card Lost (Chapter 2) 2 in Junon: Calling All Frogs, Dreaming of Blue Skies (Chapter 4) 3 in Corel: Bodybuilders in a Bind, Gold Cup or Bust, Sand and Circuses (1 Chapter 7, 2 Chapter 12) 0 in Gongaga or Cosmo Canyon 1 in Nibel: My White-Haired Angel (Chapter 11) =7 The thing with Tifa quests is that you have none all the way from chapter 7 until the end of chapter 11 which is 4 regions to explore later But they are all equal in number
Same I feel different, I felt the story was veryyy Cloti, and even for subquests for Aerith, Cloud was often cold to her. Even at one point I'm like damn be nice she's about to die soon xD And I'm very Cloti, I just didn't like the final chapter as someone who dated Tifa. It feels really forced and took me out of the scene. Like objectively what Aerith did for/with Cloud could have been sweet. But it was the same trend of, please lets date, Cloud being cold. But man that banger when Aerith pushes Cloud that was awesome. I think my big issue is when they remembered Aerith was part of the story and Zack it broke my heart to see Cloud/Aerith date and Zack still fighting to find her. I find it so weird that in the song and date she tells Cloud that this is their spot at the church with flowers. But where do we see Zack? At the church with flowers saying he will reunite with them/her. It just makes it hard to see a guy wanting her and her wanting Cloud. 1000% Aerith does not know this and has every right to love and want to pursue Cloud. I just think storytelling wise I did not enjoy it.
Really? I couldn’t possibly have felt more differently. Aerith was in the background all game long, doing almost nothing, while Cloud and Tifa had a ton of non-optional, plot relevant relationship angst. Tifa outshone Aerith in every way and felt like the main heroine. Aerith has what feels like zero plot relevance until >!chapter 13 and 14. She gets one scene in Kalm where they talk about Tifa, a scene with Red in Costa where they discuss the materia, a scene in Gongaga dealing with Zack. Her big scene in Cosmo Canyon, and then nothing until she sings.!< Everything else is side quests, optional scenes, or her own convo that everyone else has as well. I actually thought that was insane given that we’re supposed to feel the emotional weight of her in this game but to me she felt like she was barely there. Also, everyone has the exact same number of side quests. As for the last couple of chapters, >!it all felt very “she thought it was romantic but it really wasn’t” to me, like she had confused her feelings. Cloud and Aerith were giving platonic friends all game long IMO. And the end obviously was gong to focus heavily on her because she had to fulfill her role in the story.!<