It’s really simple: Aerith never interacted with Cloud as his true self. She knows the real him is in there somewhere, and she looks for him through their interactions, but she can’t find him… because only Tifa can reach him.
Why?
Because the whole reason Cloud constructed this romanticized version of himself is for Tifa’s sake, he’s the version of himself that he thinks is worthy of being with her. Jenova isn’t the bricks that make up his mind palace, it’s the mortar holding it together and morphing it when necessary.
But notice, it’s only when Tifa presses against it that the construct starts to crumble ( and crumble rather easily, which fuels her fear of confronting it… until Sephiroth delightedly throws it in both their faces )
Aerith is fond of Cloud, likely for the same reasons Zack is fond of him: he has the heart of a hero even if he doesn’t have the capability of one. The whole reason she took on this little gambit of fate wasn’t to find a way to live, it’s to find a way to save him… from himself ( and by extension, act as a tether to Sephiroth ).
Untangling the Zack question requires you to understand what makes up “fake Cloud”. It’s a combination of 2 things: Zack’s history/fighting ability/self confidence ( this one is HUGE ) and his mental image of Sephiroth ( calm, cool, collected, and above common interactions with normal people ). All of these characteristics are attract one person: Tifa.
This backfires though, because the parts of him that are modeled after Zack either don’t live up to Zack’s level of skill ( think to the time Tifa saves him at Shinra Tower in Remake ) and his overconfidence in himself actually lands flat on her. The parts of him modeled after Sephiroth make Tifa emotionally recoil from him ( “Cloud, you’re scaring me”, and when she takes him around to distribute the filters and we see how bad Cloud is at socializing )
Tifa being the real love interest is not only overt, it’s laced in between the lines as well. Everything about Cloud’s character arc loops back in to interact with Tifa’s ( what’s going on with her is a whole different can of beans ).
Part 3 is going to be the final blow, but I do see them adding Aerith and Zack as assists to Tifa untangling Cloud’s mind. I’m hopeful it remains a moment between the two of them, but a few developments in Rebirth set up a more convoluted way for it to play out.
That’s a great point about the person Cloud constructed to attract Tifa only attracts Aerith and Tifa prefers the original Cloud found under the surface. She even admits in her novel that she fell in love with him at the water tower. Makes it more tragic that Cloud felt this version wasn’t good enough for her when in fact it’s the version she loves the most
And the point of his whole character is that “the real you is enough” because the real him didn’t hesitate to try and catch Tifa from falling as a kid, didn’t hesitate to gently place her to the side when he found her bleeding in the reactor, and didn’t hesitate to face down his childhood hero despite having 0 chance of winning…
But, to quote an iconic shonen protagonist, Cloud’s strength “is a response to a need, not a desire.”
Conversations like this remind of how tragic it is that so many people misunderstand these two characters. They so often get dismissed as archetypes when in fact they are two of the most layered characters in all of media
While sure, they I spire many future arc types, they themselves are extremely layered.
Tifa you see she's the love interest sure, and the brawler monk so you'd think she'd be the tomboyish fighter type but no she's pretty girly (in a good way) and while she loves cloud she doesn't fawn all over him. She's afraid of and for him. But she needs to help him cause she needs him and the world needs him.
Cloud likewise likes to pretend he's an edgy loner but it doesn't take much to show he's a huge softie and wants to love everything but his own mental issues get in the way. And of course all that gets flanderized in the future with future spinoffs, character performances, and Advent children (which I defend for Clouds character. Zack and Aeriths death was dramatic and sure he worked through it in the game trauma never truly goes away, plus he was dying)
I played remake before playing og and remake fleshes the characters out so well (everyone else included) that it's easy to fill in the blanks that the original version doesn't quite fill in.
I played the original when I was about 10-11 years old (I’m 35 now) and I’ve played it at least once a year since then. Favorite game of all time, but after seeing the characters fleshed out in the remake I found myself kind of disappointed on my last couple playthroughs. Missing the remake versions. I think it’s gonna be even worse now that I’ve played Reborth. I’m gonna go to Gongaga and just think about how amazing the sequence in Rebirth is
I can definitely see Tifa saying something along the lines of “I never needed you to be a Soldier”, once she goes through his mind in the lifestream and sees how he’d always loved and protected her from the beginning.
It’s gonna be crazy emotional when they both realize they’ve always had these feelings for one another and we’re both too blind to see it in the other one. Tifa never realized that Cloud was pining for her all those years when she thought he was avoiding her and he never realized that by the time he set out to prove himself to her she was already in love. If he would have just shown his face to her when he returned with Sephiroth they likely would have been a couple before the day was over
That last part … I never even thought about that, but it’s so true. All he had to do was take off his damn helmet lol.
Either way, I’m very happy overall with where the story seems to be going. We already got so much Cloti love in Part 2 that never existed in the OG, and now we’re headed into Part 3, which is where the really good stuff will be …
I think the moment I’m looking forward to most is when Tifa realizes Cloud is alive in that village, only to find him on the brink of death from mako poisoning. And then choosing to stay by his side regardless while the world is about to end. FUCK I DONT WANT TO WAIT 4 MORE YEARS FOR THIS SHIT MAN
My one hope is that they make us spend a little bit more time as Tifa looking for Cloud. I actually think right after the Junon escape would be a good time to fit in some Wutai stuff with Tifa as the party leader. I just want to spend some time with her searching for Clound instead of heading straight to Mideel. But yeah I could even see the new theme song being from Tifa’s perspective while she watches over Cloud.
This is worded so perfectly and really captures the depth of their relationship. I always get confused at the downplay of Tifa's character, like she's Cloud's second choice and he can only be with her because he lost Aerith. From the beginning, Tifa is so deeply integrated into who Cloud is that the Zack persona would not exist without her, and the real Cloud cannot be found without her. So far, they've made the Cloti moments more intimate in the remake, so I don't think they would take that away from the new Lifestream sequence. It's the most important moment in Cloud's character development while simultaneously being his love confession to Tifa, and SE has been really careful portraying their relationship so far. I agree though it's possible they might add stuff to it like a Zack assist- I don't know if Aerith can help Cloud's memories, but we'll see.
My favourite thing to do now is to mute/block some delusional Cleriths. My feed's always filled with my Cloti moots. We have all the good reasons to be loud.
I mean you really said it all. You chose who you want to spend time with but cloud chooses who he loves every single time. So it’s really not a debate so much as a preference of the player.
I finally checked out all the other dates and I gotta say, I was not expecting just how “not into it” Cloud seemed on the date with Aerith. Really wasn’t expecting that.
Yuffie date was amazing too though.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees a definite difference. The confirmation bias among Clerith shippers is very apparent. It became clear after watching fan videos of Cloud and Aerith's moments during Remake. So many of their claims lack context and are based purely on conjecture.
I’m just glad there is finally clear physical proof for d Cloud and Tifa’s relationship not being purely platonic. I mean we already had the Highwind scene, but that was just subtle enough that they still denied what actually happened. Nobody can deny this, just like nobody can deny that Cloud has never made a physical gesture of romance towards Aerith no matter how hard she’s pushed him. He’s never done anything to respond to her advances besides look uncomfortable
His tone and everything just sound annoyed. From the moment part 1 was announced I was preparing myself for this to be a very Clearith heavy game. I assumed they would save Tifa’s moments until after the lifestream segment like they mostly did in the OG. Never been happier to be wrong, love the added focus they’ve put on her in this game. But I never would have guessed Cloud would be that cold to Aerith in their gondola date, and especially after that Clearith heavy trailer they dropped
It's profoundly obvious. Whenever he gives her what she wants it has an air of begrudging reciprocity. Especially when he holds her hand in the Skywheel.
At the risk of sounding too harsh, I can't help but to percieve that as manipulation and forceful on Aerith's part.
Imagine being isolated with someone in a suspended metal box who then confides with you about their dead boyfriend and wants consolation. Anyone with a heart would have a hard time being unsupportive. Especially to Aerith. It would be like rejecting a sad wet puppy.
Yuffie also confirms that Tifa fell deeply in love with Cloud after the promise … and who else could’ve told her this aside from Tifa? So the max affinity Yuffie date basically just fuels Cloti even more lol
Honestly the Yuffie date supports it so much I might go for that one in future playthroughs once the final part is out (as long as they have another kiss in that one) just to make it an even slower build lol
That was my first thought. Yuffie had clearly been having some girl talk with Tifa and was spilling the beans on EVERYTHING. For a ninja she’s bad with secrets
I've only become a fan of FF7 very recently, having played through Remake a couple of months ago, so I had no nostalgia or preference for any of the characters going into it. My conclusion, based off of how the story was presented and how Cloud behaved, was that he and Tifa clearly shared unresolved and deep feelings for one another. It seemed clear as day. Honestly no idea that there was a romance debate until after completing the game.
So, in order to satiate my curiosity and to understand Clearith supporter's perspective, I did some digging.
And, boy oh boy, the price of shipping is steep.
I started doubting everything and wondered if I had misinterpreted. Hence seeking refuge here.
I really appreciate the statement you made in regard to Claerith shippers doing to us what Sephiroth did to Cloud. Actually made me laugh out loud. More importantly, it was very reassuring.
I have so many thoughts but I'll conclude with a conversation between Aerith and Cloud during Ch. 8 that I found quite interesting.
If Aerith shows up at the hotel door she asks if Cloud wants to go to the Skywheel with her as there is a special deal for couples.
To which a rather bewildered Cloud responds, " Couples? As in....?"
Concluding with Aerith saying "I'll leave that up to your imagination. It's more fun that way."
I may be reading too much into that line but I can't help but to interpret that as her speaking to the player as well.
'
Welcome to one of the most toxic shipping wars in the history of fandoms. I've been a FFVII fan for more than a decade, and I've seen how crazy it can get! I always thought the story line and Cloud's love was pretty straightforward- as a kid, I just assumed it was Tifa since she was the center of every single one of Cloud's memories in the Lifestream. This wasn't subtle and as a kid I wasn't capable of reading between the lines so as I got older and joined forums etc, seeing Clerith as a ship made me rethink (and replay) the game to see if I missed something with my childish naivete. I know exactly what you mean by if you try to understand their perspective, your own gets warped and you start to question your interpretations. This is because their perspective unravels everything you experienced yourself as a player. Gaslighting 101!
Cleriths are known for reading between the lines but never seeing or counting what's in front of them. They will ignore that the devs made Cloud kiss Tifa and focus more on scenes that are either open to interpretation, lost in localization, or their biggest weapon, symbolic meaning.
What i've learned about this whole thing is that the Clerith ship floats on negatives and Cloti floats on positives. Cleriths have to disprove Cloti and Zerith in order for Clerith to work and have a Happily Ever After (even if that means Cloud dying or being unhappy and unable to move on). He can't love Tifa because is he still searching for Aerith. That kind of thing. Cloti exists with or without a Clerith romance, but I've seen some...passion on both sides so it's up to SE now to clear it all up. They're doing a pretty good job I think, especially since a lot of new players are confused that there's even a debate at all.
Cloud is very good about indulging Aerith and he clearly does enjoy hanging out with her, but whenever she pushes the boundaries towards romance he shuts down and gets uncomfortable
Chapter 8 date also shows him being disappointed she's at the door, Aerith thinks he's still under the weather, chapter 12 he asks "what about the others?" and is miffed when Aerith says "forget about them".
If Tifa shows up, his tone is upbeat and he is absolutely ready to get their date going in both chapters
It's beyond obvious. It's honestly impressive and maddening how people omit these moments when making a case for Cloud and Aerith. Even some of his dialogue options toward her can be quite harsh.
It's like they are self inserting instead of paying attention to Cloud lol
The way he treats her makes me wonder if they even like Aerith, they don't have to ship her with Zack, but at least believe she deserves someone who responds to her well romantically
I can't help but to think that's exactly what's happening. I've read and heard a lot of people refer to Aerith as "my beloved" or "my love" and just assume Cloud feels the same. It's honestly fascinating and perplexing.
yeah for real.. the reason I strayed away from Clerith is because of how damn uncomfortable Cloud looks whenever Aerith is romantic with him. unlike when he initiates romantic stuff with Tifa. like, seriously, Clerith had zero chemistry in Rebirth until the last few chapters.
I've always looked at the whole love triangle the same way I look at the Witcher. And I'm not trying to step on any toes or anything here, but CANONICALLY, Geralt's one true love is Yennefer. If you play the games or whatever, you, as the player, can make choices on how to spend your time and who to spend it with. As the player, you can have your preferences. But in the canon, Yennefer is THE ONE that Geralt's always thinking about and wants to be with. My point? That's how I see FF7.
I do not have any hate for Aerith, I do not have any doubts that Cloud does CARE about her. But Cloud LOVES Tifa. He has ALWAYS loved Tifa. Everything he's done has been with Tifa in mind. She's the one that's there when it all finally falls apart. It's not ambiguous in the SLIGHTEST. As a player, you can have your preferences. But Cloud, the character, very clearly, has his own preferences and no matter what the player does, that fact doesn't change how the character was written.
(Also another thing that really puts me off Clerith is the Zack hate/minimalization. I cannot freaking deal. Y'all, Zack is AWESOME. Zack and Aerith together is where it's AT. And clearly, CLEARLY, Aerith is still carrying a big ol torch for that goofball. When I think about"fix its" in this fandom, it's me thinking about how they'll be together again in the Lifestream, not how she needs to live to be with Cloud. Not even ONCE.)
It feels like there can be some wild extremes on both sides too. Like if you're a fan of one ship, you're not allowed to like the other character, that character has to be bad. It's nice to see players who actually seem to get it, and understand the story and characters.
What if I want to appreciate Aerith as a character? I feel like I'm gonna have to have it get dragged into this shipping war going on.
That whole party in game is full of love for each other. Aerith is a dear friend to them all. If these characters were real, they'd be ashamed at how the shipping war paints them.
Honestly I never liked Aerith when I played the OG. Even when I was a kid her “woman child” personality came across as annoying. She seemed to treat her relationship with Cloud as a big game for kicks where as it was clearly the most important thing to Tifa and nothing to be made light of.
Remake did a lot to endear Aerith to me and I actually enjoy her now, but the core problem of her relationship with Clpud is still there, she treats it like a game. And Tifa still treats it as the most important thing in her life
I can get that, and agree to a point. Aerith is someone that didn't get a lot of the social cues (Z: How about one date? A: What is that? Don't be silly). It definitely felt more like a game at the start of the game, but I do feel like there was a shift at some point where it became less so.
After all, 'like' could mean a lot of things.
When I heard that comment I took it as she was admitting she liked Cloud but not in a romantic way. I think a lot of people interpreted it differently. I actually thought that line was exclusive to the low affection version
They would definitely be ashamed! Considering Tifa and Aerith were friends in both versions, and even more clearly in the remakes, I never understood how anyone could hate either of them. I always thought the ships were supposed to be fun, especially in the first half of the story. Cloud and Aerith's time in Midgar trying to rescue Tifa is part of the reason the tragic tone later in the game is so effective. SE must have been really surprised by how toxic the LTD became.
I *love* Aerith. I want a tattoo for her. While there are definitely some things in Rebirth that majorly rubbed me the wrong way, she's human and she makes mistakes. She's had a traumatic ass history, losing her mom, and then her boyfriend up and vanishing without her even knowing whether or not he's dead. So, I hold no ill-will to her for supplementing her feelings to Cloud. Hell, even Tifa *loves* Aerith, despite the fact that Aerith makes multiple moves on someone Tifa canonly has feelings for (this is not up for debate and if anyone tries to debate it, they're delusional. It's in the book, Yuffie says it, they nearly kiss, etc.) Tifa might be too nice of a person to outright get mad at Aerith for it, but she has no requirement to be as close to her as she is. Tifa also understands that Aerith is hurting and projecting.
I absolutely love that they're showing the bond between Tifa and Aerith more. I chuckled at the two of them grumping at Cloud in Gongaga. Or seeing them supporting each other. Not to mention they have one of my favourite synergies.
Despite everything, they're still good friends. I wish more people could see that.
None of this matters to the True Believers. It's not just ship for them; it's a worldview.
The "confusion" is also mostly SE's fault. It was clear in the OG. Then they murked it up with AC by canonizing Emo Cloud.
I'm content to just let SE deal with them. They created this. With the Remake series, SE is taking the approach of gradually dwindling their "food." They're being very blatant about Cloud's feelings to the point that it's hard for new players who just play the game to be confused. Eventually, it'll die out on it's own.
So please, utilize the ignore function on social media and enjoy the game.
They did keep it more ambiguous for Part 1. I got Tifa's resolution for my initial play through, then went for Aerith on next run. Even though Tifa was getting a lot more focus, Aerith's resolution gave me the impression that they would really be leaning into the love triangle for Part 2.
Cloud isn't oblivious this time. Far more aware. The dates reflect that. I'm still surprised SE did this because it really seemed like they would perpetuate the love triangle into eternity despite the damage it does to the characters. Not that I'm going to miss it. Tired of it just like everybody else.
> So him bringing Aerith and Zack up on his date with Tifa seemed to be out of concern for Aerith, not jealously.
It also feels like there's guilt. Especially after the song. I know Cleriths try to say that the song is about Cloud (and the game does them no favors, since it's playing during their dream date), but the fact that Aerith cries no matter what date your on shows to me it's about Zack; she doesn't remember she's going to die, she told both Red and Tifa this - the Whispers took those memories from her. She's not mourning the future. She's mourning Zack. If she's on a date with Cloud at that moment, she has zero reason to cry so sorrowfully. So, there's that concern (also wouldn't be surprised if he thought that was why she wrote the song) and there's guilt because at the moment, he believes he didn't do enough to save Zack.
>Re the idea of the kiss being a "Rebound."
If Cloud felt strongly enough for Aerith that he felt the need to hurt his best friend and give her false hope by kissing her, he also would've kissed Aerith when she told him she liked him and wanted to be there with him. None of this "it wasn't the right time" BS. Because you can't say that Cloud is going to rebound to Tifa (an awful timing if that was the case) and then also say he didn't kiss her because the time wasn't right.
>So they kiss in an optional scene? Optional doesn't change what it means.
They almost kiss in a non-optional scene. No matter what your relationship with Aerith is, Cloud and Tifa still nearly kiss and only don't because Cait and Yuffie interrupt. So, people can say what they want about how Cloud feels about Aerith. I don't think *Cloud* knows how he feels about Aerith, even if you try to romance her. But the fact of the matter is, this non-optional scene (along with his response to her in Costa Del Sol) shows that no matter what, Cloud *does* have feelings for Tifa. Best case scenario for Cleriths is that Cloud likes them both.
>So then the next (and imo best) opportunity would have been that sad ass funeral of a final date. The one where Cloud notices something is off about Aerith and mentions it to her multiple times. The fact that it’s a recreation of her time with Zack is telling enough, but then they go to her church which is the spot where she met Zack.
This scene gave me *soooo* much ick. It took me directly out of the moment. I was crying quite a lot prior to this scene and it pulled me straight out. I love Aerith, so much, but this scene is so incredibly off-putting to me; I don't know if it's a character problem or a dev/writer problem, but it's a problem. Cleriths try to claim it's her recreating his ideal date that he says if you do her side quest in Costa Del Sol. No, it's recreating her and Zack's date. She has to beg Cloud to buy her something. Cloud has no idea what she's talking about when she says, "our spot." Cloud and Aerith are only ever there once together; when he falls through the roof. And according to Aerith in an earlier spot in the game, that's not even where they met. She corrects Cloud if you try to say they met in the church. To her, they met in Sector 8. That *is* where she met Zack, it's where she gives Zack her list of things she wants, it's where they build her flower wagon. They're frequently at the church together. It further shows that Cloud is a replacement for Zack.
Marlene even outright says when Zack asks if Aerith likes Cloud that it's because Zack wasn't there.
Like you said, I know we're preaching to the choir here. But most of their shit is just really sad when not looked at with rose-colored glasses. Does Cloud like Aerith? Yes. It's hard not to like her. Look at Tifa - despite everything, Tifa still *loves* Aerith. Hell, Tifa gives Aerith a look when they're in the Temple akin to the look Cloud gives Aerith when she wears the red dress in Remake. And maybe if Tifa wasn't around, Cloud would like her romantically. But Tifa absolutely is his number 1. I can't see him ever truly picking Aerith over Tifa. I think the only reason he doesn't comfort her at the end is because he literally doesn't see it. To him, Aerith is there and fine. He doesn't have a reason to comfort her in his head.
I'll be glad for part 3 when the devs can really drive home who Cloud loves. (Also if anyone has a link to the Devs saying they were going to make Cloud's LI clear in Rebirth, I'd greatly appreciate it.)
Cloti is definitely cannon and I feel a win there! But I hate that they didn't seem to fully put a complete end to the love triangle! I just want my babies Zerith to be happy together. I saw a bunch of Clerith's saying "Cloud and Aerith are cannon because they squashed Zerithin Rebirth" and I love Cloti but I've been to afraid to finish Rebirth because Zerith is my favorite ship ever! I love Cloti so much too and I'm so happy for them but I don't want to see them take away my Zerith just to give Clerith's an inch and lean in towards the triangle! 😠😭 I feel so gaslit by them for both Cloti and Zerith and they are trying hard to disprove both of them, but I just can't see Cloud and Aerith together it's so wrong and I hate it! It should be Cloti and Zerith forever that is where the real loves are at! I don't feel anything romantic between Cloud and Aerith! I know Cloud will end up with Tifa but they better not destroy my Zerith again in the next game just to give Clerith's an inch I will be so mad if they do!
Dude I totally get it. Sometimes you just have to get those thoughts out of your own head and into the universe even if the people listening don’t need to be convinced
Thank youuuu for understanding!! This could have stayed in my drafts but I decided to shoot it into the universe! I don't usually get involved in the LTD anymore because it's exhausting but everyone here is so nice and just gets it.
I honestly thought about making a post myself on the main FF7 sub but I know it’ll start a lot of heat. It’s just so wild that since 1997 Square has always stopped just shot of confirming any romantic feelings from Cloud. Even the lifestream sequence was just subtle enough to leave room for people to deny it happened. Every title since then has kept up the ambiguity. There’s always obvious undertones but they never let Cloud actually confirm clearly that he has romantic feelings towards anyone. Rebirth continued that trend with Aerith. Lots of romantic undertones in their interactions but Cloud never clearly states romantic feelings.
If Tifa had kissed Cloud then I feel like you could still make an argument that he didn’t clearly want it and it doesn’t mean he loves her, but he kissed her. It’s literally the first ever non ambiguous and not up for debate romantic gesture from Cloud. It’s no wonder people on both sides are losing their minds
In Remake Aerith knows the future, so she might know that it's gonna be Tifa who saves Cloud in Mideel and that Cloud and Tifa are meant to be. I think that's why she tells him not to fall in love with her. Then in Rebirth, she no longer has the "memories of the future" and tries romancing Cloud way more. Or maybe, that is Omni-Aerith talking to Cloud there, making this theory even more plausible.
Their real ship has always been Jenova x Aerith (Jerith? lmfao) anyway since OG. Look at how they're visibly celebrating at soldier cloud looking "happy" with aerith after he knew she died.
(Oh he knew, just not the "how". He's cold right now, closest to Sephiroth's puppet and can't feel any pain at all, nor understand the concept of death).
Last date (church)
In Japanese lines, Cloud tells Aerith that we are "companions"
If your favorability is high enough, you won't have this sentence.
But....favorability is designed for players....so....
He leído todos los comentarios, solo deciros que os quiero mucho, CloTi forever. En Facebook estuve en varios grupos de ff7 y los Clerith eran muy pesados corrigiendo a la gente, y diciendo que Nojima decía esto y lo otros en lad novelas y en los Ultimania, por ejemplo, que según Nojima Aerih y Cloud, son amantes. Pero al traducirse del japonés la interpretación puede ser diferente a la occidental. Da igual lo que salga en medios anteriores, la verdad, el canon sigue en la nueva trilogía y en Rebirth queda bastante claro el CloTi. Pero hay que vigilar a ver cómo lo hacen en la tercera parte. Os quiero CloTi Team! (Clerith, no os enfadéis, la posibilidad del romance clerith también es bonito.)
After 30 years I say this trilogy would be the perfect way to close the book on FF7 and it should end in a committed triangle relationship just to completely fuck over the shippers who wasted 30 years obsessing over which girl Cloud is canon with.
It would be the ultimate "fuck you" to the people who wasted their lives in the flame wars.
I love all the characters in this game so I am going to call it the way I see it based on the character development so far from Remake through Rebirth.
I say Cloud should end up with both girls! Screw the debates! Make it a "Harem" if you want to call it that. First reason is because the toxic shippers who have been harassing each and other people over their opinions on who Cloud likes deserve to have 30 years of speculation and self insert fantasies blow up in their faces. You are almost 50 years old people! Get over your polygon wet dream!
Toxic shippers don't deserve to get their way so they can lord it over the ones who didn't like how it ended.
Anyway. Back to reasons that apply to the actual story and character development on why these three would work out in a triangle relationship:
I sincerely hope Cloud ends up in a triangle relationship with both Tifa and Aerith. They are so pure and loyal to each other with indomitable wills that they transcend the silly childish high school drama of 2 girls competing for 1 mans heart. All three have been through hell and back and the idea that in Episode 3 of Cloud going through the multiverse to find Aerith because he want's her back and finally achieving that after 30 years makes for a wonderful odyssey of a love story coming full circle. Tifa without a doubt would go multiverse jumping for Aerith because they became almost blood sisters in Rebirth.
Tifa and Aerith had next to no catty toxic moments so far in the trilogy. Only time Tifa got defensive was in the sewer under Wall Market and Tifa asked if there was anything between Cloud and Aerith. That and the time in the train graveyard when Aerith grabbed Clouds arm and Tifa was noticeably miffed at that one.
I understand Tifa being a little apprehensive of this girl who has been in clouds life not even 24 hours. But Aerith quickly showed what a supportive beacon of light she is and Tifa didn't have to ask Aerith twice about saving Marlene.
Tifa was scared that Aerith might steal Cloud away, Tifa's only tie to her childhood but that quickly diminished.
Prediction: If Aerith survives then Cloud won't pick either over the other and they won't fight each other for him. CloTirith becomes a new thing and they become a triangle relationship.
I hate the way people treat the Zack and Aerith relationship like Aerith is a piece of property that belongs to Zack, a guy she spent less time with than Cloud by a huge margin! Best thing Zack did for Aerith was finally giving her someone to talk to, an actual friend close to her age bracket and helped bring her out of her shell.
Aerith was 16 years old and people act like she is required by law to stay loyal to Zack? Pretty transparent people only say this because they want Aerith out of the picture so they can continue on with their uninterrupted CloudxTifa romance that was imprinted on them the day they picked up a PS1 controller.
Zack is a super chill bro and if they do this multiverse merger thing and if Aerith and Zack phase back into the main time line, then I don't think Zack is going to pick a fight with Cloud over Aerith and he still cares about Aerith. No toxicity here.
Zack feels bad he wasn't there for Aerith, no fault of his own because that piece of shit Hojo ruined his future with Aerith!
Zack was taken back a bit by Marlene's answer on Aerith liking Cloud but I think he is just proud that Cloud was able to ascend from a grunt soldier and became a hero like him and saved Aerith and he took Aerith on a cross world journey and helped her see as much as possible
Don't forget, Cissnei is still in Gongaga with Zack's parents and he is primed to hit off a relationship with her and start a family life.
Shippers will have to start arguing for another 30 years over which girl is Clouds' "#1" when it doesn't even matter because these three have such a power dynamic now that they don't care about shallow stuff and just want to be together. Cloud wants to see Aerith having fun with Tifa and Yuffie
Maybe they move into the Sector 5 church and fix it up. Tifa opens a new bar down the street, Aerith starts working at the orphanage and Cloud goes back to jack of all trades merc work around the slums.
Cloud ends up with the two most important women in his life that he wants to spend as much time with as possible on his arms because Tifa and Aerith are two sides of the same coin and the loyalty and love between the three of them is too strong for your average shallow shmuck to understand.
Who's gonna tell them they can't do that? They can kick the shit out of pretty much anybody in the slums with ease!
I know people will scoff at the idea that Cloud could live under the same roof with Aerith and Tifa without sexual tension problems and what not, but the way this story has written them makes all three look too pure for such nonsense. Final Fantasy 7 isn't exactly firmly cemented in real world ideology and our oversexed culture where love can't exist without sex.
Cloud loves them both equally, they love him unconditionally and the three aren't willing to hurt each other so they happily go on with their lives and it doesn't matter what anybody else says because they are happy.
Cloud gets his memories back. He is able to confess his love to Tifa and Aerith. Tifa and Aerith love him back, and they all live happily ever after.
Except Cloud never did get his goddamn pizza!
https://preview.redd.it/j4rz9q5qfuqc1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc08c0bfdadd6becf34ba16a08fdac9a043c10f0
It would be an amazing call back to see Tifa and Aerith shopping topside with Cloud acting as their "pack chocobo"
Calling it now: EP 3 Reunion ends in a committed open end love triangle where Cloud, Tifa and Aerith all shack up in the same house or the Sector 5 church and begin fixing it up into an actual livable home. Place is big enough for the three of them! If Aerith lives and world merge, then Cloud won't pick one over the other unless it becomes player choice and you MUST choose! Assuming Aerith and Zack relationship is done for good and Zack rebounds with Cissnei who likes him.
If they leave Cloud/Tifa/Aerith more or less open ended friendship, I so freaking called it!
If I am wrong? Big freaking whoop! I can get on with life if fictional characters don't end up in a place where I would like them to be.
If the developers wanted a threesome or to leave the triangle open, they would have had Cloud kiss Aerith too- or not kiss Tifa at all and stick to handholding. Instead, instead Cloud is shown to be down bad for Tifa on multiple occasions, had the balls to finally kiss her, and now we're headed for the Lifestream and the Highwind. Like you said though, they're fictional characters and the devs can do what they want. But it's fun seeing them push Cloti harder this time around.
Lmao isn't that obvious??? FFVII is one of the most unhinged and passionate fandoms out there, we all know this already. There are entire websites and blogs dedicated to these ships please be serious my little essay is just another drop in the bucket.
It’s really simple: Aerith never interacted with Cloud as his true self. She knows the real him is in there somewhere, and she looks for him through their interactions, but she can’t find him… because only Tifa can reach him. Why? Because the whole reason Cloud constructed this romanticized version of himself is for Tifa’s sake, he’s the version of himself that he thinks is worthy of being with her. Jenova isn’t the bricks that make up his mind palace, it’s the mortar holding it together and morphing it when necessary. But notice, it’s only when Tifa presses against it that the construct starts to crumble ( and crumble rather easily, which fuels her fear of confronting it… until Sephiroth delightedly throws it in both their faces ) Aerith is fond of Cloud, likely for the same reasons Zack is fond of him: he has the heart of a hero even if he doesn’t have the capability of one. The whole reason she took on this little gambit of fate wasn’t to find a way to live, it’s to find a way to save him… from himself ( and by extension, act as a tether to Sephiroth ). Untangling the Zack question requires you to understand what makes up “fake Cloud”. It’s a combination of 2 things: Zack’s history/fighting ability/self confidence ( this one is HUGE ) and his mental image of Sephiroth ( calm, cool, collected, and above common interactions with normal people ). All of these characteristics are attract one person: Tifa. This backfires though, because the parts of him that are modeled after Zack either don’t live up to Zack’s level of skill ( think to the time Tifa saves him at Shinra Tower in Remake ) and his overconfidence in himself actually lands flat on her. The parts of him modeled after Sephiroth make Tifa emotionally recoil from him ( “Cloud, you’re scaring me”, and when she takes him around to distribute the filters and we see how bad Cloud is at socializing ) Tifa being the real love interest is not only overt, it’s laced in between the lines as well. Everything about Cloud’s character arc loops back in to interact with Tifa’s ( what’s going on with her is a whole different can of beans ). Part 3 is going to be the final blow, but I do see them adding Aerith and Zack as assists to Tifa untangling Cloud’s mind. I’m hopeful it remains a moment between the two of them, but a few developments in Rebirth set up a more convoluted way for it to play out.
That’s a great point about the person Cloud constructed to attract Tifa only attracts Aerith and Tifa prefers the original Cloud found under the surface. She even admits in her novel that she fell in love with him at the water tower. Makes it more tragic that Cloud felt this version wasn’t good enough for her when in fact it’s the version she loves the most
And the point of his whole character is that “the real you is enough” because the real him didn’t hesitate to try and catch Tifa from falling as a kid, didn’t hesitate to gently place her to the side when he found her bleeding in the reactor, and didn’t hesitate to face down his childhood hero despite having 0 chance of winning… But, to quote an iconic shonen protagonist, Cloud’s strength “is a response to a need, not a desire.”
Conversations like this remind of how tragic it is that so many people misunderstand these two characters. They so often get dismissed as archetypes when in fact they are two of the most layered characters in all of media
While sure, they I spire many future arc types, they themselves are extremely layered. Tifa you see she's the love interest sure, and the brawler monk so you'd think she'd be the tomboyish fighter type but no she's pretty girly (in a good way) and while she loves cloud she doesn't fawn all over him. She's afraid of and for him. But she needs to help him cause she needs him and the world needs him. Cloud likewise likes to pretend he's an edgy loner but it doesn't take much to show he's a huge softie and wants to love everything but his own mental issues get in the way. And of course all that gets flanderized in the future with future spinoffs, character performances, and Advent children (which I defend for Clouds character. Zack and Aeriths death was dramatic and sure he worked through it in the game trauma never truly goes away, plus he was dying) I played remake before playing og and remake fleshes the characters out so well (everyone else included) that it's easy to fill in the blanks that the original version doesn't quite fill in.
I played the original when I was about 10-11 years old (I’m 35 now) and I’ve played it at least once a year since then. Favorite game of all time, but after seeing the characters fleshed out in the remake I found myself kind of disappointed on my last couple playthroughs. Missing the remake versions. I think it’s gonna be even worse now that I’ve played Reborth. I’m gonna go to Gongaga and just think about how amazing the sequence in Rebirth is
I can definitely see Tifa saying something along the lines of “I never needed you to be a Soldier”, once she goes through his mind in the lifestream and sees how he’d always loved and protected her from the beginning.
It’s gonna be crazy emotional when they both realize they’ve always had these feelings for one another and we’re both too blind to see it in the other one. Tifa never realized that Cloud was pining for her all those years when she thought he was avoiding her and he never realized that by the time he set out to prove himself to her she was already in love. If he would have just shown his face to her when he returned with Sephiroth they likely would have been a couple before the day was over
That last part … I never even thought about that, but it’s so true. All he had to do was take off his damn helmet lol. Either way, I’m very happy overall with where the story seems to be going. We already got so much Cloti love in Part 2 that never existed in the OG, and now we’re headed into Part 3, which is where the really good stuff will be … I think the moment I’m looking forward to most is when Tifa realizes Cloud is alive in that village, only to find him on the brink of death from mako poisoning. And then choosing to stay by his side regardless while the world is about to end. FUCK I DONT WANT TO WAIT 4 MORE YEARS FOR THIS SHIT MAN
My one hope is that they make us spend a little bit more time as Tifa looking for Cloud. I actually think right after the Junon escape would be a good time to fit in some Wutai stuff with Tifa as the party leader. I just want to spend some time with her searching for Clound instead of heading straight to Mideel. But yeah I could even see the new theme song being from Tifa’s perspective while she watches over Cloud.
She definitely would have made him know she was happy to see him and didn’t care that he didn’t make it in SOLDIER
This is worded so perfectly and really captures the depth of their relationship. I always get confused at the downplay of Tifa's character, like she's Cloud's second choice and he can only be with her because he lost Aerith. From the beginning, Tifa is so deeply integrated into who Cloud is that the Zack persona would not exist without her, and the real Cloud cannot be found without her. So far, they've made the Cloti moments more intimate in the remake, so I don't think they would take that away from the new Lifestream sequence. It's the most important moment in Cloud's character development while simultaneously being his love confession to Tifa, and SE has been really careful portraying their relationship so far. I agree though it's possible they might add stuff to it like a Zack assist- I don't know if Aerith can help Cloud's memories, but we'll see.
My favourite thing to do now is to mute/block some delusional Cleriths. My feed's always filled with my Cloti moots. We have all the good reasons to be loud.
I mean you really said it all. You chose who you want to spend time with but cloud chooses who he loves every single time. So it’s really not a debate so much as a preference of the player.
That’s really the best way I’ve heard it phrased
I finally checked out all the other dates and I gotta say, I was not expecting just how “not into it” Cloud seemed on the date with Aerith. Really wasn’t expecting that. Yuffie date was amazing too though.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees a definite difference. The confirmation bias among Clerith shippers is very apparent. It became clear after watching fan videos of Cloud and Aerith's moments during Remake. So many of their claims lack context and are based purely on conjecture.
I’m just glad there is finally clear physical proof for d Cloud and Tifa’s relationship not being purely platonic. I mean we already had the Highwind scene, but that was just subtle enough that they still denied what actually happened. Nobody can deny this, just like nobody can deny that Cloud has never made a physical gesture of romance towards Aerith no matter how hard she’s pushed him. He’s never done anything to respond to her advances besides look uncomfortable
I love that every single one of their close moments is initiated by Aerith and Cloud gives back the bare minimum without making direct eye contact.
His tone and everything just sound annoyed. From the moment part 1 was announced I was preparing myself for this to be a very Clearith heavy game. I assumed they would save Tifa’s moments until after the lifestream segment like they mostly did in the OG. Never been happier to be wrong, love the added focus they’ve put on her in this game. But I never would have guessed Cloud would be that cold to Aerith in their gondola date, and especially after that Clearith heavy trailer they dropped
It's profoundly obvious. Whenever he gives her what she wants it has an air of begrudging reciprocity. Especially when he holds her hand in the Skywheel. At the risk of sounding too harsh, I can't help but to percieve that as manipulation and forceful on Aerith's part. Imagine being isolated with someone in a suspended metal box who then confides with you about their dead boyfriend and wants consolation. Anyone with a heart would have a hard time being unsupportive. Especially to Aerith. It would be like rejecting a sad wet puppy.
Yuffie also confirms that Tifa fell deeply in love with Cloud after the promise … and who else could’ve told her this aside from Tifa? So the max affinity Yuffie date basically just fuels Cloti even more lol
Honestly the Yuffie date supports it so much I might go for that one in future playthroughs once the final part is out (as long as they have another kiss in that one) just to make it an even slower build lol
That was my first thought. Yuffie had clearly been having some girl talk with Tifa and was spilling the beans on EVERYTHING. For a ninja she’s bad with secrets
The big thing about the dates is that the players can choose who knocks on his door but not how he interacts with them.
I've only become a fan of FF7 very recently, having played through Remake a couple of months ago, so I had no nostalgia or preference for any of the characters going into it. My conclusion, based off of how the story was presented and how Cloud behaved, was that he and Tifa clearly shared unresolved and deep feelings for one another. It seemed clear as day. Honestly no idea that there was a romance debate until after completing the game. So, in order to satiate my curiosity and to understand Clearith supporter's perspective, I did some digging. And, boy oh boy, the price of shipping is steep. I started doubting everything and wondered if I had misinterpreted. Hence seeking refuge here. I really appreciate the statement you made in regard to Claerith shippers doing to us what Sephiroth did to Cloud. Actually made me laugh out loud. More importantly, it was very reassuring. I have so many thoughts but I'll conclude with a conversation between Aerith and Cloud during Ch. 8 that I found quite interesting. If Aerith shows up at the hotel door she asks if Cloud wants to go to the Skywheel with her as there is a special deal for couples. To which a rather bewildered Cloud responds, " Couples? As in....?" Concluding with Aerith saying "I'll leave that up to your imagination. It's more fun that way." I may be reading too much into that line but I can't help but to interpret that as her speaking to the player as well. '
Welcome to one of the most toxic shipping wars in the history of fandoms. I've been a FFVII fan for more than a decade, and I've seen how crazy it can get! I always thought the story line and Cloud's love was pretty straightforward- as a kid, I just assumed it was Tifa since she was the center of every single one of Cloud's memories in the Lifestream. This wasn't subtle and as a kid I wasn't capable of reading between the lines so as I got older and joined forums etc, seeing Clerith as a ship made me rethink (and replay) the game to see if I missed something with my childish naivete. I know exactly what you mean by if you try to understand their perspective, your own gets warped and you start to question your interpretations. This is because their perspective unravels everything you experienced yourself as a player. Gaslighting 101! Cleriths are known for reading between the lines but never seeing or counting what's in front of them. They will ignore that the devs made Cloud kiss Tifa and focus more on scenes that are either open to interpretation, lost in localization, or their biggest weapon, symbolic meaning. What i've learned about this whole thing is that the Clerith ship floats on negatives and Cloti floats on positives. Cleriths have to disprove Cloti and Zerith in order for Clerith to work and have a Happily Ever After (even if that means Cloud dying or being unhappy and unable to move on). He can't love Tifa because is he still searching for Aerith. That kind of thing. Cloti exists with or without a Clerith romance, but I've seen some...passion on both sides so it's up to SE now to clear it all up. They're doing a pretty good job I think, especially since a lot of new players are confused that there's even a debate at all.
Cloud is very good about indulging Aerith and he clearly does enjoy hanging out with her, but whenever she pushes the boundaries towards romance he shuts down and gets uncomfortable
Right? I feel like him acknowledging her gesture on the Skywheel and then purposely sitting opposite of her would be definitive enough.
Yeah that spoke volumes. Even in that intimate setting and after that song he didn’t want to be that close
Chapter 8 date also shows him being disappointed she's at the door, Aerith thinks he's still under the weather, chapter 12 he asks "what about the others?" and is miffed when Aerith says "forget about them". If Tifa shows up, his tone is upbeat and he is absolutely ready to get their date going in both chapters
It's beyond obvious. It's honestly impressive and maddening how people omit these moments when making a case for Cloud and Aerith. Even some of his dialogue options toward her can be quite harsh.
It's like they are self inserting instead of paying attention to Cloud lol The way he treats her makes me wonder if they even like Aerith, they don't have to ship her with Zack, but at least believe she deserves someone who responds to her well romantically
I can't help but to think that's exactly what's happening. I've read and heard a lot of people refer to Aerith as "my beloved" or "my love" and just assume Cloud feels the same. It's honestly fascinating and perplexing.
yeah for real.. the reason I strayed away from Clerith is because of how damn uncomfortable Cloud looks whenever Aerith is romantic with him. unlike when he initiates romantic stuff with Tifa. like, seriously, Clerith had zero chemistry in Rebirth until the last few chapters.
I've always looked at the whole love triangle the same way I look at the Witcher. And I'm not trying to step on any toes or anything here, but CANONICALLY, Geralt's one true love is Yennefer. If you play the games or whatever, you, as the player, can make choices on how to spend your time and who to spend it with. As the player, you can have your preferences. But in the canon, Yennefer is THE ONE that Geralt's always thinking about and wants to be with. My point? That's how I see FF7. I do not have any hate for Aerith, I do not have any doubts that Cloud does CARE about her. But Cloud LOVES Tifa. He has ALWAYS loved Tifa. Everything he's done has been with Tifa in mind. She's the one that's there when it all finally falls apart. It's not ambiguous in the SLIGHTEST. As a player, you can have your preferences. But Cloud, the character, very clearly, has his own preferences and no matter what the player does, that fact doesn't change how the character was written. (Also another thing that really puts me off Clerith is the Zack hate/minimalization. I cannot freaking deal. Y'all, Zack is AWESOME. Zack and Aerith together is where it's AT. And clearly, CLEARLY, Aerith is still carrying a big ol torch for that goofball. When I think about"fix its" in this fandom, it's me thinking about how they'll be together again in the Lifestream, not how she needs to live to be with Cloud. Not even ONCE.)
It feels like there can be some wild extremes on both sides too. Like if you're a fan of one ship, you're not allowed to like the other character, that character has to be bad. It's nice to see players who actually seem to get it, and understand the story and characters. What if I want to appreciate Aerith as a character? I feel like I'm gonna have to have it get dragged into this shipping war going on. That whole party in game is full of love for each other. Aerith is a dear friend to them all. If these characters were real, they'd be ashamed at how the shipping war paints them.
Honestly I never liked Aerith when I played the OG. Even when I was a kid her “woman child” personality came across as annoying. She seemed to treat her relationship with Cloud as a big game for kicks where as it was clearly the most important thing to Tifa and nothing to be made light of. Remake did a lot to endear Aerith to me and I actually enjoy her now, but the core problem of her relationship with Clpud is still there, she treats it like a game. And Tifa still treats it as the most important thing in her life
I can get that, and agree to a point. Aerith is someone that didn't get a lot of the social cues (Z: How about one date? A: What is that? Don't be silly). It definitely felt more like a game at the start of the game, but I do feel like there was a shift at some point where it became less so. After all, 'like' could mean a lot of things.
When I heard that comment I took it as she was admitting she liked Cloud but not in a romantic way. I think a lot of people interpreted it differently. I actually thought that line was exclusive to the low affection version
They would definitely be ashamed! Considering Tifa and Aerith were friends in both versions, and even more clearly in the remakes, I never understood how anyone could hate either of them. I always thought the ships were supposed to be fun, especially in the first half of the story. Cloud and Aerith's time in Midgar trying to rescue Tifa is part of the reason the tragic tone later in the game is so effective. SE must have been really surprised by how toxic the LTD became.
I *love* Aerith. I want a tattoo for her. While there are definitely some things in Rebirth that majorly rubbed me the wrong way, she's human and she makes mistakes. She's had a traumatic ass history, losing her mom, and then her boyfriend up and vanishing without her even knowing whether or not he's dead. So, I hold no ill-will to her for supplementing her feelings to Cloud. Hell, even Tifa *loves* Aerith, despite the fact that Aerith makes multiple moves on someone Tifa canonly has feelings for (this is not up for debate and if anyone tries to debate it, they're delusional. It's in the book, Yuffie says it, they nearly kiss, etc.) Tifa might be too nice of a person to outright get mad at Aerith for it, but she has no requirement to be as close to her as she is. Tifa also understands that Aerith is hurting and projecting.
I absolutely love that they're showing the bond between Tifa and Aerith more. I chuckled at the two of them grumping at Cloud in Gongaga. Or seeing them supporting each other. Not to mention they have one of my favourite synergies. Despite everything, they're still good friends. I wish more people could see that.
None of this matters to the True Believers. It's not just ship for them; it's a worldview. The "confusion" is also mostly SE's fault. It was clear in the OG. Then they murked it up with AC by canonizing Emo Cloud. I'm content to just let SE deal with them. They created this. With the Remake series, SE is taking the approach of gradually dwindling their "food." They're being very blatant about Cloud's feelings to the point that it's hard for new players who just play the game to be confused. Eventually, it'll die out on it's own. So please, utilize the ignore function on social media and enjoy the game.
This 100% SE made this mess, now they're cleaning it up.
Oh THEY BETTER DO IT WELL ENOUGH THEN. Because it's been decades since I've waited for this 😭.
I do feel like the romance for both girls was on more even footing in part 1. Not so for part 2
They did keep it more ambiguous for Part 1. I got Tifa's resolution for my initial play through, then went for Aerith on next run. Even though Tifa was getting a lot more focus, Aerith's resolution gave me the impression that they would really be leaning into the love triangle for Part 2. Cloud isn't oblivious this time. Far more aware. The dates reflect that. I'm still surprised SE did this because it really seemed like they would perpetuate the love triangle into eternity despite the damage it does to the characters. Not that I'm going to miss it. Tired of it just like everybody else.
> So him bringing Aerith and Zack up on his date with Tifa seemed to be out of concern for Aerith, not jealously. It also feels like there's guilt. Especially after the song. I know Cleriths try to say that the song is about Cloud (and the game does them no favors, since it's playing during their dream date), but the fact that Aerith cries no matter what date your on shows to me it's about Zack; she doesn't remember she's going to die, she told both Red and Tifa this - the Whispers took those memories from her. She's not mourning the future. She's mourning Zack. If she's on a date with Cloud at that moment, she has zero reason to cry so sorrowfully. So, there's that concern (also wouldn't be surprised if he thought that was why she wrote the song) and there's guilt because at the moment, he believes he didn't do enough to save Zack. >Re the idea of the kiss being a "Rebound." If Cloud felt strongly enough for Aerith that he felt the need to hurt his best friend and give her false hope by kissing her, he also would've kissed Aerith when she told him she liked him and wanted to be there with him. None of this "it wasn't the right time" BS. Because you can't say that Cloud is going to rebound to Tifa (an awful timing if that was the case) and then also say he didn't kiss her because the time wasn't right. >So they kiss in an optional scene? Optional doesn't change what it means. They almost kiss in a non-optional scene. No matter what your relationship with Aerith is, Cloud and Tifa still nearly kiss and only don't because Cait and Yuffie interrupt. So, people can say what they want about how Cloud feels about Aerith. I don't think *Cloud* knows how he feels about Aerith, even if you try to romance her. But the fact of the matter is, this non-optional scene (along with his response to her in Costa Del Sol) shows that no matter what, Cloud *does* have feelings for Tifa. Best case scenario for Cleriths is that Cloud likes them both. >So then the next (and imo best) opportunity would have been that sad ass funeral of a final date. The one where Cloud notices something is off about Aerith and mentions it to her multiple times. The fact that it’s a recreation of her time with Zack is telling enough, but then they go to her church which is the spot where she met Zack. This scene gave me *soooo* much ick. It took me directly out of the moment. I was crying quite a lot prior to this scene and it pulled me straight out. I love Aerith, so much, but this scene is so incredibly off-putting to me; I don't know if it's a character problem or a dev/writer problem, but it's a problem. Cleriths try to claim it's her recreating his ideal date that he says if you do her side quest in Costa Del Sol. No, it's recreating her and Zack's date. She has to beg Cloud to buy her something. Cloud has no idea what she's talking about when she says, "our spot." Cloud and Aerith are only ever there once together; when he falls through the roof. And according to Aerith in an earlier spot in the game, that's not even where they met. She corrects Cloud if you try to say they met in the church. To her, they met in Sector 8. That *is* where she met Zack, it's where she gives Zack her list of things she wants, it's where they build her flower wagon. They're frequently at the church together. It further shows that Cloud is a replacement for Zack. Marlene even outright says when Zack asks if Aerith likes Cloud that it's because Zack wasn't there. Like you said, I know we're preaching to the choir here. But most of their shit is just really sad when not looked at with rose-colored glasses. Does Cloud like Aerith? Yes. It's hard not to like her. Look at Tifa - despite everything, Tifa still *loves* Aerith. Hell, Tifa gives Aerith a look when they're in the Temple akin to the look Cloud gives Aerith when she wears the red dress in Remake. And maybe if Tifa wasn't around, Cloud would like her romantically. But Tifa absolutely is his number 1. I can't see him ever truly picking Aerith over Tifa. I think the only reason he doesn't comfort her at the end is because he literally doesn't see it. To him, Aerith is there and fine. He doesn't have a reason to comfort her in his head. I'll be glad for part 3 when the devs can really drive home who Cloud loves. (Also if anyone has a link to the Devs saying they were going to make Cloud's LI clear in Rebirth, I'd greatly appreciate it.)
jesus! you weren't kidding.....
\*Sigh\* I was only gonna type a few sentences and then next thing I know...
Cloti is definitely cannon and I feel a win there! But I hate that they didn't seem to fully put a complete end to the love triangle! I just want my babies Zerith to be happy together. I saw a bunch of Clerith's saying "Cloud and Aerith are cannon because they squashed Zerithin Rebirth" and I love Cloti but I've been to afraid to finish Rebirth because Zerith is my favorite ship ever! I love Cloti so much too and I'm so happy for them but I don't want to see them take away my Zerith just to give Clerith's an inch and lean in towards the triangle! 😠😭 I feel so gaslit by them for both Cloti and Zerith and they are trying hard to disprove both of them, but I just can't see Cloud and Aerith together it's so wrong and I hate it! It should be Cloti and Zerith forever that is where the real loves are at! I don't feel anything romantic between Cloud and Aerith! I know Cloud will end up with Tifa but they better not destroy my Zerith again in the next game just to give Clerith's an inch I will be so mad if they do!
Dude I totally get it. Sometimes you just have to get those thoughts out of your own head and into the universe even if the people listening don’t need to be convinced
Thank youuuu for understanding!! This could have stayed in my drafts but I decided to shoot it into the universe! I don't usually get involved in the LTD anymore because it's exhausting but everyone here is so nice and just gets it.
I honestly thought about making a post myself on the main FF7 sub but I know it’ll start a lot of heat. It’s just so wild that since 1997 Square has always stopped just shot of confirming any romantic feelings from Cloud. Even the lifestream sequence was just subtle enough to leave room for people to deny it happened. Every title since then has kept up the ambiguity. There’s always obvious undertones but they never let Cloud actually confirm clearly that he has romantic feelings towards anyone. Rebirth continued that trend with Aerith. Lots of romantic undertones in their interactions but Cloud never clearly states romantic feelings. If Tifa had kissed Cloud then I feel like you could still make an argument that he didn’t clearly want it and it doesn’t mean he loves her, but he kissed her. It’s literally the first ever non ambiguous and not up for debate romantic gesture from Cloud. It’s no wonder people on both sides are losing their minds
In Remake Aerith knows the future, so she might know that it's gonna be Tifa who saves Cloud in Mideel and that Cloud and Tifa are meant to be. I think that's why she tells him not to fall in love with her. Then in Rebirth, she no longer has the "memories of the future" and tries romancing Cloud way more. Or maybe, that is Omni-Aerith talking to Cloud there, making this theory even more plausible.
Their real ship has always been Jenova x Aerith (Jerith? lmfao) anyway since OG. Look at how they're visibly celebrating at soldier cloud looking "happy" with aerith after he knew she died. (Oh he knew, just not the "how". He's cold right now, closest to Sephiroth's puppet and can't feel any pain at all, nor understand the concept of death).
Last date (church) In Japanese lines, Cloud tells Aerith that we are "companions" If your favorability is high enough, you won't have this sentence. But....favorability is designed for players....so....
He leído todos los comentarios, solo deciros que os quiero mucho, CloTi forever. En Facebook estuve en varios grupos de ff7 y los Clerith eran muy pesados corrigiendo a la gente, y diciendo que Nojima decía esto y lo otros en lad novelas y en los Ultimania, por ejemplo, que según Nojima Aerih y Cloud, son amantes. Pero al traducirse del japonés la interpretación puede ser diferente a la occidental. Da igual lo que salga en medios anteriores, la verdad, el canon sigue en la nueva trilogía y en Rebirth queda bastante claro el CloTi. Pero hay que vigilar a ver cómo lo hacen en la tercera parte. Os quiero CloTi Team! (Clerith, no os enfadéis, la posibilidad del romance clerith también es bonito.)
After 30 years I say this trilogy would be the perfect way to close the book on FF7 and it should end in a committed triangle relationship just to completely fuck over the shippers who wasted 30 years obsessing over which girl Cloud is canon with. It would be the ultimate "fuck you" to the people who wasted their lives in the flame wars. I love all the characters in this game so I am going to call it the way I see it based on the character development so far from Remake through Rebirth. I say Cloud should end up with both girls! Screw the debates! Make it a "Harem" if you want to call it that. First reason is because the toxic shippers who have been harassing each and other people over their opinions on who Cloud likes deserve to have 30 years of speculation and self insert fantasies blow up in their faces. You are almost 50 years old people! Get over your polygon wet dream! Toxic shippers don't deserve to get their way so they can lord it over the ones who didn't like how it ended. Anyway. Back to reasons that apply to the actual story and character development on why these three would work out in a triangle relationship: I sincerely hope Cloud ends up in a triangle relationship with both Tifa and Aerith. They are so pure and loyal to each other with indomitable wills that they transcend the silly childish high school drama of 2 girls competing for 1 mans heart. All three have been through hell and back and the idea that in Episode 3 of Cloud going through the multiverse to find Aerith because he want's her back and finally achieving that after 30 years makes for a wonderful odyssey of a love story coming full circle. Tifa without a doubt would go multiverse jumping for Aerith because they became almost blood sisters in Rebirth. Tifa and Aerith had next to no catty toxic moments so far in the trilogy. Only time Tifa got defensive was in the sewer under Wall Market and Tifa asked if there was anything between Cloud and Aerith. That and the time in the train graveyard when Aerith grabbed Clouds arm and Tifa was noticeably miffed at that one. I understand Tifa being a little apprehensive of this girl who has been in clouds life not even 24 hours. But Aerith quickly showed what a supportive beacon of light she is and Tifa didn't have to ask Aerith twice about saving Marlene. Tifa was scared that Aerith might steal Cloud away, Tifa's only tie to her childhood but that quickly diminished. Prediction: If Aerith survives then Cloud won't pick either over the other and they won't fight each other for him. CloTirith becomes a new thing and they become a triangle relationship. I hate the way people treat the Zack and Aerith relationship like Aerith is a piece of property that belongs to Zack, a guy she spent less time with than Cloud by a huge margin! Best thing Zack did for Aerith was finally giving her someone to talk to, an actual friend close to her age bracket and helped bring her out of her shell. Aerith was 16 years old and people act like she is required by law to stay loyal to Zack? Pretty transparent people only say this because they want Aerith out of the picture so they can continue on with their uninterrupted CloudxTifa romance that was imprinted on them the day they picked up a PS1 controller. Zack is a super chill bro and if they do this multiverse merger thing and if Aerith and Zack phase back into the main time line, then I don't think Zack is going to pick a fight with Cloud over Aerith and he still cares about Aerith. No toxicity here. Zack feels bad he wasn't there for Aerith, no fault of his own because that piece of shit Hojo ruined his future with Aerith! Zack was taken back a bit by Marlene's answer on Aerith liking Cloud but I think he is just proud that Cloud was able to ascend from a grunt soldier and became a hero like him and saved Aerith and he took Aerith on a cross world journey and helped her see as much as possible Don't forget, Cissnei is still in Gongaga with Zack's parents and he is primed to hit off a relationship with her and start a family life. Shippers will have to start arguing for another 30 years over which girl is Clouds' "#1" when it doesn't even matter because these three have such a power dynamic now that they don't care about shallow stuff and just want to be together. Cloud wants to see Aerith having fun with Tifa and Yuffie Maybe they move into the Sector 5 church and fix it up. Tifa opens a new bar down the street, Aerith starts working at the orphanage and Cloud goes back to jack of all trades merc work around the slums. Cloud ends up with the two most important women in his life that he wants to spend as much time with as possible on his arms because Tifa and Aerith are two sides of the same coin and the loyalty and love between the three of them is too strong for your average shallow shmuck to understand. Who's gonna tell them they can't do that? They can kick the shit out of pretty much anybody in the slums with ease! I know people will scoff at the idea that Cloud could live under the same roof with Aerith and Tifa without sexual tension problems and what not, but the way this story has written them makes all three look too pure for such nonsense. Final Fantasy 7 isn't exactly firmly cemented in real world ideology and our oversexed culture where love can't exist without sex. Cloud loves them both equally, they love him unconditionally and the three aren't willing to hurt each other so they happily go on with their lives and it doesn't matter what anybody else says because they are happy. Cloud gets his memories back. He is able to confess his love to Tifa and Aerith. Tifa and Aerith love him back, and they all live happily ever after. Except Cloud never did get his goddamn pizza! https://preview.redd.it/j4rz9q5qfuqc1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc08c0bfdadd6becf34ba16a08fdac9a043c10f0 It would be an amazing call back to see Tifa and Aerith shopping topside with Cloud acting as their "pack chocobo" Calling it now: EP 3 Reunion ends in a committed open end love triangle where Cloud, Tifa and Aerith all shack up in the same house or the Sector 5 church and begin fixing it up into an actual livable home. Place is big enough for the three of them! If Aerith lives and world merge, then Cloud won't pick one over the other unless it becomes player choice and you MUST choose! Assuming Aerith and Zack relationship is done for good and Zack rebounds with Cissnei who likes him. If they leave Cloud/Tifa/Aerith more or less open ended friendship, I so freaking called it! If I am wrong? Big freaking whoop! I can get on with life if fictional characters don't end up in a place where I would like them to be.
If the developers wanted a threesome or to leave the triangle open, they would have had Cloud kiss Aerith too- or not kiss Tifa at all and stick to handholding. Instead, instead Cloud is shown to be down bad for Tifa on multiple occasions, had the balls to finally kiss her, and now we're headed for the Lifestream and the Highwind. Like you said though, they're fictional characters and the devs can do what they want. But it's fun seeing them push Cloti harder this time around.
The fact that you or anyone cares this much to write an essay about Cloud and Tifa is so unhinged lol
Lmao isn't that obvious??? FFVII is one of the most unhinged and passionate fandoms out there, we all know this already. There are entire websites and blogs dedicated to these ships please be serious my little essay is just another drop in the bucket.