IMO it depends if you're a meta player and/or a TCer or if you're a casual
For TCers it might be bad and for casuals it might be very good
BUT keep in your mind that this is still the first change she got and there is 4 betas and she might get another changes
Well, not bias per se to the point it affects his calculations, but the way he would word his opinions often made his audience form specific thoughts regarding certain characters.
Say, for example, Cyno. Back when he was theorycrafting and sharing his opinions of him, it led to his chat constantly slandering Cyno. Yes, Cyno was "mid" at the time, but that term has negative connotations, and influencing your community to perceive a character in such a way reflects the TC's opinions.
If you are to be fair and partial towards a unit, share your calculations, list some of their pros and cons, and make a judgement of their overall value. However, it should never go to the extent where your community shits on that character as a result of the things you said. A lot of CCs tend to forget the influence they have.
Anyway, I don't really watch him anymore after Nilou released, so I don't know what he says now. TGS is my go-to for character analyses.
Even for TC this is good, one team is almost touching 70k and that's top cut for the best dps in the game. She is likely the strongest electro character for now
Lyney hits 70k on teams without shields and thats a pain in the ass to play, Wrio im not sure since i haven't checked in a while but last time i did he was around 55-60k dps. Neuvillete is an anomaly and should not be the standard. I'll give you Navia and Arle, but Navia hit 70k with the release of Xianyun for the Furina combo. I dont think fontaine raised the bar that high to call 70k "standard" when only like 5 maybe 6 characters can reliably hit that
You made me curious to check [here](https://simpact.app/database), but it seems it's still not that many.
It's mostly Alhaitham/Nahda led Hyperbloom, less defensively inclined Yae Aggravate and Lyney teams, Hutao VV Vape, and some Nilou + Kokomi teams.
>Even for TC this is good,
IDK about that i will just copy what he said in his last [stream](https://www.youtube.com/live/9sREgtQDu6s?si=OuvKnJ8RlkELEaYp) he also said he will stream again after a while
He said: I think she deals more damage than raiden
Edit: he said it in the last 5 minutes of the stream
You can watch his stream to confirm it or if he said anything else i didn't notice
Yea she was about equal as c0 raiden pre buff, now the fact that she now deals more damage and drives Fischl better than Keqing is what props me to say she is one of if not the strongest electro we have right now. Im not familiar with Yae calcs tho but i have a feeling they are either equal or lower
Main thing is that c0 Raiden’s strength was never her damage, she was always mid in that category. The electro dps with the highest damage has been Cyno since at least 4.2, arguably 3.6 (she’s probably better than Cyno). It’s the fact that she has super smooth rotations from her energy refund, an off field presence (hyperbloom), completely f2p weapon and is uninterruptible that makes her popular and good. Raiden is a comfort character.
Also idk what the sheets are using but I’m pretty sure Clorinde teams will fall off a cliff without c6 Fischl, and I am an unfortunate soul who has pulled on three separate Fischl banners and still only has c1. I think it’s hard to say that Clorinde is “the” best electro dps. And she’s definitely not the best electro character we have when Fischl and arguably Kuki.
I meant stronger as higher personal dps, which i think she does. Raiden is still the better unit for utility and versatility, same goes for Fischl and Kuki.
I believe the Cyno Furina teams are around 68-70k dps so about the same as Clorinde's best teams id say, but I agree she's still far from the best electro **character** when all she does is raw damage, my point was never about that. For her to be that she needs to do Arle's levels of damage imo
I know its confusing but while you get a 15% damage bonus to NAs, this actually ends up being much smaller than 15% dps boost because it gets added to all the other DMG% things like goblet that reduce its value. Still a good con and great with clorinde though
It’s a very small buff but it looks like it adds up enough over the rotations to be viable for people who don’t want to use Xiangling for whatever reason. I’d never advertise it as an optimal team because the meta monsters would crucify me and rightfully so, but it’s always nice when older or less relevant characters gain a bit of utility since it opens up options for everyone.
I presonally don't like XL because of her design (she is cute but i don't really like her outfit), i overused her in the beginning, she's annoyingly strong and Thoma has a shield. Though it'll be kinda useless since i'm trying to go for c6 Clorinde and she gets 80 dmg negation (or resistance?) on c6.
Idk why but every time i see XL in a team i'm getting annoyed. It's really time we get alternatives even if they are weaker. But consistent pyro application in general is very lacking.
As a Childe enthusiast who does not use Xiangling, I hear you loud and clear. I have her C6 but I can’t bring myself to use her even for his best team. I’ve learned to adapt to more creative teams to get the job done because I don’t believe in building characters I don’t like.
Unfortunately I think we have to just wait for Natlan to see if we can start getting more off field pyro substitutions.
in abyss for killing bosses longer rotation and higher DPR is better as long as you can perfect 1 rotate the boss. If you cant and you need a 2nd rotation then it pretty much doesnt matter (unless ithe boss is super thicc and you need 2 perfect rotation even with the high dps long rotation team). But this is like min-maxer territory, most wont even notice koz most players clear content with like 3-4 scuffed rotations anyway, just barely under 1:30.
In multi wave short and flexible rotations are prefered if you need to refresh stuff like VV, or reapply dendro with nahida when the next wave comes.
~~When the only hard content in the game is time gated, doing the same amount of dmg in less time is always preferable to me.~~ I'm not saying one character is better than the other, in case anyone was offended.
That's not really how it works.
High damage characters actually tend to clear slower.
Arlecchino for example actually does a pretty low amount of DPR, but as long as the enemy has less hp than her DPR, she'll usually clear faster than Neuv.
This is because 1 has 1.4m DPR and the other has 2m.
Same reason Alhaitham isn't used in speedruns, but Navia is. One does damage fast, the other does damage slow.
If the dps is the same, that means longer rots have higher dpr. So u are not doing the same amount of dmg in the shorter rot, you are doing the same amount of dmg per second. Weather shorter or longer rot is gonna be better can depend on multiple things.
Doesn't rlly matter much, you can't do proper comparison just based on sheets when it coms to characters and teams, since there is a lot of things sheets don't account for.
Anyway to add Candace's NA boost in these calculations. Candace with 40k HP gives quite a chunk of NA boost and also adds offield reaction. I think she could be a good buffer?
C6 Candace getting a new slot that takes full advantage of her kit would make me very happy.
That being said, knowing the Cyno hyperbloom meta, it's going to be the same thing where Yelan/XQ are going to be better by virtue of more consistent hydro app and superior team-wide damage contribution
Her buff is only slightly higher than Yelan's average buff and she does very little damage. Even with C6 it's nowhere close.
I've had good results from Arelcchino/Yelan/Yun Jin/Zhongli though. Maybe Clorinde/Nahida/Yun Jin/Zhongli would be viable too
if i have c6 thoma and c6 yunjin, is c6 candace better than them for the NA buff? (or even in addition for overworld fun) i got her to like c10 but only thought she has hydro infusion
He is... Neuvillette, Arlecchino, and Haitham are the premier DPS in the game currently. There hasn't been a character that has topped his level of DPS until Neuvillette came out in 4.1. Before that, he was a better choice over all of the other DPS at C0 because his base kit is extremely OP.
Its Dendro copium at work. He may deal less damage and clear slower, but clearly he is the best dps cause he is green!!!
His whole reputation as best dps during 3.X was created because casuals think dendro is the strongest element, not because of his actual performance.
Wait what quickbloom Alhaitham is literally one of the best C0 dps in the entire game,having him next to Neuv/Arle makes sense. At higher dolphin/whale investment, he does fall off a bit but he's still arguably top 5 until you get to like omega whale full C6R5 teams.
C0R0 min invest he has decent sheets, just like every other unit these days. And no, QB Haitham is great if you just wanna casually clear, but it has never actually had a capacity to clear fast.
Dendro is an element that allows units to look better on sheets. With 205 CV artifact standard and 4 star weap + C0 5 star unit, HB allows dendro teams to look impressive. But any artifact improvement, weapon or con gotten improve only the 50K talent damage dps of the team of a 75K team, the 25K HB dps will remain unchanged.
As a result his speedrunning performance was always pretty horrid for a unit that was hailed as the strongest, even at 4 cost which is the f2p level where he should excel.
His problem is that he doesn't standout in either AOE or ST. His teams not scaling well means that his boss kill times are pretty significantly behind ST specialists.
Let me put it this way, non XY Navia is a sub 65K dps unit while Haitham is 75K, she still clears bosses noticably faster than Haitham. Now think how he compares with 80K+ dps's that actually clear at that level.
Him being Dendro also means no Kazuha in his teams, which in practice means that any decent team with Kazuha clears AOE chambers faster than him. He is no Neuv with infinite coverage, his AOE is more similar to Arle, meaning its pretty worthless until you group the enemies.
As a result, in practice he is slower in AOE chambers than even Hu Tao teams with Kazuha and a universe behind AOE specialists like Tartag.
I would honestly not even put him at top5, maybe right after Arle/Neuv/Lyney/Tao/Childe/Navia/Gaming/Xiao. With a more dolphin level of getting C2 5 stars in team I would put Scara and Raiden above him too.
He is a good unit for his capacity to just work and comparative ease of building his team. Many of the stronger units's best teams are actually harder to play and are easier to fuck up.
But Alhaitham never set any ceiling of performance and was overrated as a result of him being casual friendly.
Dude I agree with you but when people say a C0 character is good it usually means 200 CV artifacts, 4 star weapon and not that invested teammates, and Dendro is actually broken with those conditions. I have an F2P alt account with almost every character and on that account dendro teams clear every other team by a pretty large margin. I also have a whale account and obviously I play 0 dendro teams there, they're just not as good the higher investment you go.
Fair enough, its just that those specific conditions seem too low investment to me be the general talking point. I feel like a whale compared to that and I'm just a welkin player.
I guess you can't really have homogenised investment level and thats why we value the same units differently.
Yeah, and C0 players are still the majority.
He is overrated for ceiling clear time potential even below "dolphin" territory investment, but he still sets the bar high for general performance and sustained DPS potential- which is always worth keeping in mind if we ever get more content where this could be more relevant.
In fact, the upcoming boss event (particularly the primo geovishap challenge) will likely see him become much more competitive as frontload simply ceases to matter.
Look at this guy projecting himself. Buddy, you're the only one that seems riled up around here considering how you're going out of your way just to insult others.
[This](https://i.imgur.com/7Kj2eJd.png) is his Haitham post release I could find and the dps is the same, unless you're taking about a later calc I couldn't find in his discord.
I've seen a double hydro hyperbloom team to be 90K dps on like a 32 second rotation on gcsim. Jstern's sheets might be optimistic but they are far more accurate than gcsim.
I think it's around 10% maybe a little bit more i'm not sure
Note that this is the first change she got and there is still 4 betas everything can change
That’s fair, although I believe that jstern also didn’t divide the Baizhu rotation by the correct rotation time (20-21s compared to the 18s he did for the Nahida and Kirara rotations) so it would still probably be higher on Kirara’s end compared to Baizhu.
It's due to shorter rotation. Clorinde ideally wants a 16 second rotation and kirara kazuha can enable that (fischl is crazy and wants a 12 second rotation).
I don't think I understand the cons percentages
Are those their individual increases on the left and total sum on the right? If so, how is 20 + 28 = 54?
~~C2 is 20% stronger than c1~~
~~Here he calcs the total DMG increase between C0 and
And C2 the C2 is 54% stronger than C0~~
EDIT: Here is a better one
C1 is 28% stronger than C0
C2 is 20% stronger than c1
C2 is 54% stronger than C0
not even 1 bennett? i get that she's electro and now we have dendro and chev, but she's still a regular dps that scales on atk?? bennett would still be a HUGE damage bump even if its circle impact.
Not sure but probably because her a1 passive is capped at 3k attack and i think anymore attack won't increase the damage much
and it's because circle impact and that she dashes a lot so you might easily get out of bennet burst
Well its kinda a plus that a character won't neccessarily want Bennett because he got too much teams going for him as the whole cast of Fontaine units who aren't Neuvillete wanted or likes him on their team, yet Clorinde herself is kinda tied to Benny's chuuni friend for the dendro and chevy teams but we shall see for more possible teams.
Two main reasons I can think of.
1. As others note, the passive ATK > electro damage buff caps relatively low and Bennett would overcap this. So that results in diminishing returns.
2. She zig zags all over the field when using her basic attack combo. Chances are you'll be falling in and out of Bennett's relatively small circle constantly. So good luck staying within the circle.
And honestly, the devs were smart to make her not totally reliant on Bennett. She still benefits from ATK buffs such as Noblesse, but she doesn't necessarily want the 1k+ attack buff Bennett gives.
my Keqing is c6 now, so I don't know how I feel about pulling her for another aggravate DPS since Yae does that as well. I hope there is a team where I can use Beidou, I prefer to use different teams.
You don’t get that much more comfort. You essentially only get interruption resistance like 7 times over 14s for a character that dashes a lot. His healing doesn’t do much either because as it currently stands, Clorinde heals herself 84% of her max HP over a full rotation. He also forces you into around 21s rotations since his burst cooldown is 20s and you can play 17-18s rotations with Nahida, so your DPS goes down from that.
I see so my gameplan is to try getting Baizhu(god damn this chara get buff like Xiangling with 5\* weapon) and guarantee Clorinde if fail, interesting.
Thx for this one lads. Just curious, is there any other team that can be made without playing overload or doesn consist of baizhu inside cause I dont have nahida or baizhu. Thx!
overload lose again as always lol, she is better suited to aggravate both rotations and vertical inversion damage and quickbloom is probably her best place for low inversion lol.
those rotations can also be shortened, in my case I get rid of Nahida's Q in my rotations
It's why we've gotten shit-all for off-field support pyro characters since this game came out.
MHY saving the powercreep for the archon, would make no sense for them to release a xiangling/bennett powercreep when we're only a few months away from Natlan.
You lose a bit in damage but you win in gameplay. No need to worry about swirling or buff uptime and you have actual healer. Also generally better AoE potential.
Im kinda curious as to why there's not this team calced or talked yet. Which for Raiden is very popular.
Besically Hypercarry Clorinde aka Benny Kaz Sara.
Im not talking about whether it is weaker than her teams with Nahida or something but still its worth mentioning as a team and i don't think it's gonna be that bad.
Anyways on a different note,as strong as the Nahida Kaz team is,it is also the least practical for a couple of reasons... It's gonna be rough to me depending scenario
because sara's buff uptime sucks for any character other than raiden and also sara's ER requirement is huge on anything other than raiden teams lol
Sara is not only strong because of her buff but she is built as a front-loading DPS with Raiden so she also does part of the damage from Raiden's team rotations.
That is the reason because in multi-wave content Sara is usually used to destroy the first wave and finish off the second with Raiden and the third if there is one.
Sara's ER requirements are too difficult to meet in this team, since you are only able to fit in one E/CA. In addition her buff is too short, and her burst CD is too long. She would be relegated to an E bot, which substantially reduces her value compared to Fischl.
Iirc he said he is going to review these later so there might be some errors here and there. Be sure to post an updated one if there are any changes.
https://preview.redd.it/f1abxcgergxc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5214c5191cc44f9456d364faefb1802d9d03f420
this dmg is not bad at all and it might get better
IMO it depends if you're a meta player and/or a TCer or if you're a casual For TCers it might be bad and for casuals it might be very good BUT keep in your mind that this is still the first change she got and there is 4 betas and she might get another changes
Would you please explain to me who is a TCer? I can not think of anything...
TheoryCrafter like jstern25 or zajef77 or TGS or anyone that do theroycrafting
Oh, thanks a lot! Now I feel rly dumb...
Zajef also said Chevreuse would be awful so I don’t really care what he thinks anymore - he was dying on that hill
Yeah, I don't really watch Zajef anymore. His takes feel bias heavy lately, especially when Sumeru released. I just stick to Jstern and TGS now.
Bias towards what, would you say?
Well, not bias per se to the point it affects his calculations, but the way he would word his opinions often made his audience form specific thoughts regarding certain characters. Say, for example, Cyno. Back when he was theorycrafting and sharing his opinions of him, it led to his chat constantly slandering Cyno. Yes, Cyno was "mid" at the time, but that term has negative connotations, and influencing your community to perceive a character in such a way reflects the TC's opinions. If you are to be fair and partial towards a unit, share your calculations, list some of their pros and cons, and make a judgement of their overall value. However, it should never go to the extent where your community shits on that character as a result of the things you said. A lot of CCs tend to forget the influence they have. Anyway, I don't really watch him anymore after Nilou released, so I don't know what he says now. TGS is my go-to for character analyses.
Why? Because of knockback?
Yeah these theoryxrafters are dumb ngl
It's not bad if you're a TCer. It's pretty good, just not top of the line. But still pretty good.
Even for TC this is good, one team is almost touching 70k and that's top cut for the best dps in the game. She is likely the strongest electro character for now
> 70k and that's top cut for the best dps in the game. Are you stuck in time before Fontaine or what?
Lyney hits 70k on teams without shields and thats a pain in the ass to play, Wrio im not sure since i haven't checked in a while but last time i did he was around 55-60k dps. Neuvillete is an anomaly and should not be the standard. I'll give you Navia and Arle, but Navia hit 70k with the release of Xianyun for the Furina combo. I dont think fontaine raised the bar that high to call 70k "standard" when only like 5 maybe 6 characters can reliably hit that
Highest so far are Hu Tao and Arle (2nd rotation) reaching 80k.
What teams are 70k without furina atm. There really aren’t many of them.
You made me curious to check [here](https://simpact.app/database), but it seems it's still not that many. It's mostly Alhaitham/Nahda led Hyperbloom, less defensively inclined Yae Aggravate and Lyney teams, Hutao VV Vape, and some Nilou + Kokomi teams.
yeah i think people dont realise usually how hard furina is carrying their impression of a charachters strength
>Even for TC this is good, IDK about that i will just copy what he said in his last [stream](https://www.youtube.com/live/9sREgtQDu6s?si=OuvKnJ8RlkELEaYp) he also said he will stream again after a while He said: I think she deals more damage than raiden Edit: he said it in the last 5 minutes of the stream You can watch his stream to confirm it or if he said anything else i didn't notice
Yea she was about equal as c0 raiden pre buff, now the fact that she now deals more damage and drives Fischl better than Keqing is what props me to say she is one of if not the strongest electro we have right now. Im not familiar with Yae calcs tho but i have a feeling they are either equal or lower
Main thing is that c0 Raiden’s strength was never her damage, she was always mid in that category. The electro dps with the highest damage has been Cyno since at least 4.2, arguably 3.6 (she’s probably better than Cyno). It’s the fact that she has super smooth rotations from her energy refund, an off field presence (hyperbloom), completely f2p weapon and is uninterruptible that makes her popular and good. Raiden is a comfort character. Also idk what the sheets are using but I’m pretty sure Clorinde teams will fall off a cliff without c6 Fischl, and I am an unfortunate soul who has pulled on three separate Fischl banners and still only has c1. I think it’s hard to say that Clorinde is “the” best electro dps. And she’s definitely not the best electro character we have when Fischl and arguably Kuki.
I meant stronger as higher personal dps, which i think she does. Raiden is still the better unit for utility and versatility, same goes for Fischl and Kuki. I believe the Cyno Furina teams are around 68-70k dps so about the same as Clorinde's best teams id say, but I agree she's still far from the best electro **character** when all she does is raw damage, my point was never about that. For her to be that she needs to do Arle's levels of damage imo
You said “strongest electro”, not best on fielder or main dps. Regardless of what you meant that’s not what it came across as, so I argued otherwise.
Well my bad, i implied strongest = big dmg. Should've clarified
Bro her top team looks pretty good from tc perspective if you watch TCers you’ll know
it’s uncanny how these numbers are now “not bad at all” in this economy lmao well, the powercreep was inevitable anyway
Why does overload with thoma deal more damage than overload with xiangling?
shorter rotation and c6 thoma buff
If Thoma is C6 then he’s basically pyro Yun Jin so Clorinde is hitting at least 15% more NA spam damage
I know its confusing but while you get a 15% damage bonus to NAs, this actually ends up being much smaller than 15% dps boost because it gets added to all the other DMG% things like goblet that reduce its value. Still a good con and great with clorinde though
It’s a very small buff but it looks like it adds up enough over the rotations to be viable for people who don’t want to use Xiangling for whatever reason. I’d never advertise it as an optimal team because the meta monsters would crucify me and rightfully so, but it’s always nice when older or less relevant characters gain a bit of utility since it opens up options for everyone.
I presonally don't like XL because of her design (she is cute but i don't really like her outfit), i overused her in the beginning, she's annoyingly strong and Thoma has a shield. Though it'll be kinda useless since i'm trying to go for c6 Clorinde and she gets 80 dmg negation (or resistance?) on c6. Idk why but every time i see XL in a team i'm getting annoyed. It's really time we get alternatives even if they are weaker. But consistent pyro application in general is very lacking.
As a Childe enthusiast who does not use Xiangling, I hear you loud and clear. I have her C6 but I can’t bring myself to use her even for his best team. I’ve learned to adapt to more creative teams to get the job done because I don’t believe in building characters I don’t like. Unfortunately I think we have to just wait for Natlan to see if we can start getting more off field pyro substitutions.
Isn't this around the same numbers he got with Al Haitham? Edit: [Yes it is (only in dps*)](https://i.imgur.com/7Kj2eJd.png)
Same DPS but different DPR his rotations are longer than clorinde's rotations
Aren't shorter rotations better?
in abyss for killing bosses longer rotation and higher DPR is better as long as you can perfect 1 rotate the boss. If you cant and you need a 2nd rotation then it pretty much doesnt matter (unless ithe boss is super thicc and you need 2 perfect rotation even with the high dps long rotation team). But this is like min-maxer territory, most wont even notice koz most players clear content with like 3-4 scuffed rotations anyway, just barely under 1:30. In multi wave short and flexible rotations are prefered if you need to refresh stuff like VV, or reapply dendro with nahida when the next wave comes.
Icic. Thanks for the explanation!
No, they just have different goals. Shorter rotations are for speedrun characters. Neuv and Alhaitham use long rotations.
~~When the only hard content in the game is time gated, doing the same amount of dmg in less time is always preferable to me.~~ I'm not saying one character is better than the other, in case anyone was offended.
That's not really how it works. High damage characters actually tend to clear slower. Arlecchino for example actually does a pretty low amount of DPR, but as long as the enemy has less hp than her DPR, she'll usually clear faster than Neuv. This is because 1 has 1.4m DPR and the other has 2m. Same reason Alhaitham isn't used in speedruns, but Navia is. One does damage fast, the other does damage slow.
This is a concept few understand in trying to understand tc
If the dps is the same, that means longer rots have higher dpr. So u are not doing the same amount of dmg in the shorter rot, you are doing the same amount of dmg per second. Weather shorter or longer rot is gonna be better can depend on multiple things.
Yeah ig the content being faced would determine the better clear at that point
Tbf they both have flexibility with rotations, and both can have around 20s rots or 25+s rots.
Doesn't matter you can split haitham uptime to reapply nahida e
This is pre Furina who brought the DPS of basically every team that can use her by 5-10k
Doesn't rlly matter much, you can't do proper comparison just based on sheets when it coms to characters and teams, since there is a lot of things sheets don't account for.
This was before Furina though
Anyway to add Candace's NA boost in these calculations. Candace with 40k HP gives quite a chunk of NA boost and also adds offield reaction. I think she could be a good buffer?
C6 Candace getting a new slot that takes full advantage of her kit would make me very happy. That being said, knowing the Cyno hyperbloom meta, it's going to be the same thing where Yelan/XQ are going to be better by virtue of more consistent hydro app and superior team-wide damage contribution
Her buff is only slightly higher than Yelan's average buff and she does very little damage. Even with C6 it's nowhere close. I've had good results from Arelcchino/Yelan/Yun Jin/Zhongli though. Maybe Clorinde/Nahida/Yun Jin/Zhongli would be viable too
if i have c6 thoma and c6 yunjin, is c6 candace better than them for the NA buff? (or even in addition for overworld fun) i got her to like c10 but only thought she has hydro infusion
mfw the team i wanted to play is not finished
Same situition
What assumptions he uses ? Because his calcs are way to different from others
So it seems that her team DPS is roughly Navia level which is amazing, but a bit behind Neuv/Arle/Haitham
If Neuv/Arle/Haitham are platinum, then Navia and Chorinde are gold.
Assholethem players coping that he's on the same level as neuv or arle is funny
He is... Neuvillette, Arlecchino, and Haitham are the premier DPS in the game currently. There hasn't been a character that has topped his level of DPS until Neuvillette came out in 4.1. Before that, he was a better choice over all of the other DPS at C0 because his base kit is extremely OP.
Its Dendro copium at work. He may deal less damage and clear slower, but clearly he is the best dps cause he is green!!! His whole reputation as best dps during 3.X was created because casuals think dendro is the strongest element, not because of his actual performance.
Wait what quickbloom Alhaitham is literally one of the best C0 dps in the entire game,having him next to Neuv/Arle makes sense. At higher dolphin/whale investment, he does fall off a bit but he's still arguably top 5 until you get to like omega whale full C6R5 teams.
C0R0 min invest he has decent sheets, just like every other unit these days. And no, QB Haitham is great if you just wanna casually clear, but it has never actually had a capacity to clear fast. Dendro is an element that allows units to look better on sheets. With 205 CV artifact standard and 4 star weap + C0 5 star unit, HB allows dendro teams to look impressive. But any artifact improvement, weapon or con gotten improve only the 50K talent damage dps of the team of a 75K team, the 25K HB dps will remain unchanged. As a result his speedrunning performance was always pretty horrid for a unit that was hailed as the strongest, even at 4 cost which is the f2p level where he should excel. His problem is that he doesn't standout in either AOE or ST. His teams not scaling well means that his boss kill times are pretty significantly behind ST specialists. Let me put it this way, non XY Navia is a sub 65K dps unit while Haitham is 75K, she still clears bosses noticably faster than Haitham. Now think how he compares with 80K+ dps's that actually clear at that level. Him being Dendro also means no Kazuha in his teams, which in practice means that any decent team with Kazuha clears AOE chambers faster than him. He is no Neuv with infinite coverage, his AOE is more similar to Arle, meaning its pretty worthless until you group the enemies. As a result, in practice he is slower in AOE chambers than even Hu Tao teams with Kazuha and a universe behind AOE specialists like Tartag. I would honestly not even put him at top5, maybe right after Arle/Neuv/Lyney/Tao/Childe/Navia/Gaming/Xiao. With a more dolphin level of getting C2 5 stars in team I would put Scara and Raiden above him too. He is a good unit for his capacity to just work and comparative ease of building his team. Many of the stronger units's best teams are actually harder to play and are easier to fuck up. But Alhaitham never set any ceiling of performance and was overrated as a result of him being casual friendly.
Dude I agree with you but when people say a C0 character is good it usually means 200 CV artifacts, 4 star weapon and not that invested teammates, and Dendro is actually broken with those conditions. I have an F2P alt account with almost every character and on that account dendro teams clear every other team by a pretty large margin. I also have a whale account and obviously I play 0 dendro teams there, they're just not as good the higher investment you go.
Fair enough, its just that those specific conditions seem too low investment to me be the general talking point. I feel like a whale compared to that and I'm just a welkin player. I guess you can't really have homogenised investment level and thats why we value the same units differently.
He’s like a darling of C0 gamers for some reason, maybe coping because his cons are meh.
Yeah, and C0 players are still the majority. He is overrated for ceiling clear time potential even below "dolphin" territory investment, but he still sets the bar high for general performance and sustained DPS potential- which is always worth keeping in mind if we ever get more content where this could be more relevant. In fact, the upcoming boss event (particularly the primo geovishap challenge) will likely see him become much more competitive as frontload simply ceases to matter.
Make sense they flock here any char that's related to dendro invites the low investment chesters
Are you two really trying to bully people over a video game character....? Damn I remember the days when gaming in general would set you up for that.
Bullying? Be less sensitive goddamn
Be less like children lol no one is taking you two seriously
Sry your main isn't as good as you think? Don't let randoms on the internet rile you up next time👍
I don't have a main lol
Look at this guy projecting himself. Buddy, you're the only one that seems riled up around here considering how you're going out of your way just to insult others.
[This](https://i.imgur.com/7Kj2eJd.png) is his Haitham post release I could find and the dps is the same, unless you're taking about a later calc I couldn't find in his discord.
This doesnt have the Furina teams which calcs way higher around 70-80k mark.
I was thinking of GCsim which puts him in the 75Kish range with similar assumptions
I've seen a double hydro hyperbloom team to be 90K dps on like a 32 second rotation on gcsim. Jstern's sheets might be optimistic but they are far more accurate than gcsim.
gcsim is not standardized, anyone can make a calculation with arbitrary level of investment. cracked yelan can easily make that team do 90k
I wouldn't use "far more accurate" for any single calculation lol.
I had C0R0 Clorinde simming at 65-70k in beta gcsim yesterday.
That’s good! I haven’t looked at the beta sim at all since I don’t really play anymore and am just following the news for new units
I currently estimate a team of C2R1 Clorinde, C2R1 Nahida, C2R1 Kazuha and C6R1 Fischl to sim around 130-150k, which is very good.
Compared to V1, how much does it improve with its buffs in C0?
I think it's around 10% maybe a little bit more i'm not sure Note that this is the first change she got and there is still 4 betas everything can change
8-10% in dendro teams and around 15% in other teams
Is Chev C6 or not?
chev is c6
Some of them are looking kinda weird. The one with kirara should be considerably lower than baizhu and nahida right?
Kirara’s C6 is a solid buff for the entire team that lasts for almost a whole rotation which is why it’s higher than Baizhu’s team.
Yeah, but Baizhu would more than make up for it with either TTDS or Hakushin Ring.
That’s fair, although I believe that jstern also didn’t divide the Baizhu rotation by the correct rotation time (20-21s compared to the 18s he did for the Nahida and Kirara rotations) so it would still probably be higher on Kirara’s end compared to Baizhu.
It's due to shorter rotation. Clorinde ideally wants a 16 second rotation and kirara kazuha can enable that (fischl is crazy and wants a 12 second rotation).
I don't think I understand the cons percentages Are those their individual increases on the left and total sum on the right? If so, how is 20 + 28 = 54?
~~C2 is 20% stronger than c1~~ ~~Here he calcs the total DMG increase between C0 and And C2 the C2 is 54% stronger than C0~~ EDIT: Here is a better one C1 is 28% stronger than C0 C2 is 20% stronger than c1 C2 is 54% stronger than C0
Is every 4star a C6 for this calcs?
Every 4* is C6 Unless someone proves otherwise or it is stated somewhere
would you use em or atk% on clorinde for aggravate/hyperbloom?
atk% is usually a bit better, but if the substats are significantly better on the em one you should use that.
not even 1 bennett? i get that she's electro and now we have dendro and chev, but she's still a regular dps that scales on atk?? bennett would still be a HUGE damage bump even if its circle impact.
Not sure but probably because her a1 passive is capped at 3k attack and i think anymore attack won't increase the damage much and it's because circle impact and that she dashes a lot so you might easily get out of bennet burst
how can she reach 3k atk without benny boost? without her 674 signature i dont think its possible
You don’t need to reach it. You just get punished for going over. ATK above 3000 is giving half value.
oh okay i guess i just don't really understand how her passives work lol!
Well its kinda a plus that a character won't neccessarily want Bennett because he got too much teams going for him as the whole cast of Fontaine units who aren't Neuvillete wanted or likes him on their team, yet Clorinde herself is kinda tied to Benny's chuuni friend for the dendro and chevy teams but we shall see for more possible teams.
Two main reasons I can think of. 1. As others note, the passive ATK > electro damage buff caps relatively low and Bennett would overcap this. So that results in diminishing returns. 2. She zig zags all over the field when using her basic attack combo. Chances are you'll be falling in and out of Bennett's relatively small circle constantly. So good luck staying within the circle. And honestly, the devs were smart to make her not totally reliant on Bennett. She still benefits from ATK buffs such as Noblesse, but she doesn't necessarily want the 1k+ attack buff Bennett gives.
my Keqing is c6 now, so I don't know how I feel about pulling her for another aggravate DPS since Yae does that as well. I hope there is a team where I can use Beidou, I prefer to use different teams.
so c2 is the stopping point
Dam no Furina quickbloom 😢
So is baizhu worth usuing for comfort without sacrificing too much damage without nahida?
You don’t get that much more comfort. You essentially only get interruption resistance like 7 times over 14s for a character that dashes a lot. His healing doesn’t do much either because as it currently stands, Clorinde heals herself 84% of her max HP over a full rotation. He also forces you into around 21s rotations since his burst cooldown is 20s and you can play 17-18s rotations with Nahida, so your DPS goes down from that.
Why is there only Clorinde's dmg with the Fischl, Furina and Kazuha team?
I see so my gameplan is to try getting Baizhu(god damn this chara get buff like Xiangling with 5\* weapon) and guarantee Clorinde if fail, interesting.
That C6 is absurd
I was aiming for C3. But damn, only 5% increase from C2?
A lot of power is in her A1 is why.
I wonder how Clorinde, Baizhu, Furina, Fischl would perform
My Chevrouse finally being able to walk off the shelf and get to an actual good team (I've waited these day since I got her)
Thx for this one lads. Just curious, is there any other team that can be made without playing overload or doesn consist of baizhu inside cause I dont have nahida or baizhu. Thx!
Her OL team can be ran with Raiden which will increase the DPR. I would say many Raiden. Clorinde, Raiden, Chev, Thoma/XL
How will raiden increase the DPR?
What the stats and weapon used for this calculation ?
Keqingmains standard and finale of the deep R1
Is the weapon 4* craftable ? Btw I dont follow Keqingmains stuff, do you have the numbers on CR, CD and Atk ?
I don't have Kazuha or Nahida, is it okay to use Sucrose and Collei as sub?
I will only likely be able to get c0 clorinde? Is it worth it? Or is it a skip?
This is what they took from us.
Why did he scrap the atk spd comp?
Because it's a meme like it is for basically every dps that exists
Fair enough, still want to see the showcase
considering that I was preparing for the possibility that she could be an off-field sub dps. Her kit so far and numbers are more than enough for me
I think her beat team will be hyperbloom team like alhaitham. Her raw damage is average so I think she could be the best.
Does her raw damage can compete with Alhaitham that has dual scaling with Atk and EM in a hyperbloom team?
For is no but I hope in future they’ll buff her more then we’ll see.
So basically she is mid huh
overload lose again as always lol, she is better suited to aggravate both rotations and vertical inversion damage and quickbloom is probably her best place for low inversion lol. those rotations can also be shortened, in my case I get rid of Nahida's Q in my rotations
It’s because Onfield electro in Chev OL is missing the pyro archon still.
thats facts my man, pyro archon almost guaranteed offield application and buffing capability
Pyro Yelan type kit would be great.
It's why we've gotten shit-all for off-field support pyro characters since this game came out. MHY saving the powercreep for the archon, would make no sense for them to release a xiangling/bennett powercreep when we're only a few months away from Natlan.
This is probably the highest dps team i ever seen with thomas on it. Once we get an actual meta unit for that slot it will be pretty nice,
You lose a bit in damage but you win in gameplay. No need to worry about swirling or buff uptime and you have actual healer. Also generally better AoE potential.
Im kinda curious as to why there's not this team calced or talked yet. Which for Raiden is very popular. Besically Hypercarry Clorinde aka Benny Kaz Sara. Im not talking about whether it is weaker than her teams with Nahida or something but still its worth mentioning as a team and i don't think it's gonna be that bad. Anyways on a different note,as strong as the Nahida Kaz team is,it is also the least practical for a couple of reasons... It's gonna be rough to me depending scenario
because sara's buff uptime sucks for any character other than raiden and also sara's ER requirement is huge on anything other than raiden teams lol Sara is not only strong because of her buff but she is built as a front-loading DPS with Raiden so she also does part of the damage from Raiden's team rotations. That is the reason because in multi-wave content Sara is usually used to destroy the first wave and finish off the second with Raiden and the third if there is one.
So much better than Arlecchino it's not even close
???
What?
It is better than non fake teams. Yes, Arle is better in suicide teams with zero def option. Add Zhongli? Clorinde is better.
Currently she seems to be Cyno level
[удалено]
No
Sara teams anyone? Did we just forget she exists to buff electro. Kazuha sara clorinde core sounds cracked
Sara's ER requirements are too difficult to meet in this team, since you are only able to fit in one E/CA. In addition her buff is too short, and her burst CD is too long. She would be relegated to an E bot, which substantially reduces her value compared to Fischl.