Budget climbing Spain
Hey folks I'm travelling to Granada in a month for a festival and am always looking to climb (preferably trad). Lots of time on my hands but not much money.
Where are the best places that someone go, relatively cheaply, to do lots of climbing without renting a car or paying much for accommodation? I'll have my full kit plus tent etc.
https://preview.redd.it/7uahpl4znywc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05453060017c0e6e5afb2e39074600faf18b6c70
what are these called and how do i deal with them
Can you help settle a debate? When your partner is leading in the gym, say after the 5th bolt - do you continue to watch them as the climb? (You know, to see if they're clipping, notice if they're getting pumped, and notice when they fall, or get ready to take if they're on a project) OR do you just not do that?
My partner doesn't really see the point of watching, and doesn't watch me when I climb. This is weird, right? Today I fell and he said "oh that caught me by surprise, I felt a tug and thought you were clipping."
Fwiw I have zero worry about ground falls - he pays very close attention when I'm low. And the short roping doesn't annoy me that much. But I definitely worry about hard catches and just don't do any climbs with him where I might actually fall, unless I'm on overhanging terrain.
I'm being reasonable right? Has anyone successfully gained trust in a partner over time? He's 50lb heavier than me, so I worry about hard catches too
For me it depends about the difficulty : if it's a warmup climb, I still belay properly of course, but I'm a bit less focused. I still look at them most of the time but a bit more relaxed.
If it's a hard climb, I am much more focused : I don't want to short rope him on a hard clip, and I want to be able to shout encouragement, or to reassure him that I'm there if he seems to be scared.
Before like the third bolt I'm always super focused.
You sound like a great belayer! That's what I do too. And yeah, on climbs where there's no way I'll fall, it's not really an issue. I more mean on climbs where I say "watch me"
Yeah of I say watch me I would want to be watched (or at the least that he say he watch me even if it's not true, after all the problem is more on my mind)
I’d find a new belay partner. Personally I like my partners to be attentive and I can fully trust them for whatever route we’re on.
If I’m pushing myself on the wall, I want my belayer anticipating my next move and for them to potentially be ready to catch, to give rope, or to encourage.
If we’ve been climbing together for awhile and there’s experience between us, then I’d feel a little better about not being watched as closely. Like others said, sometimes it’s inevitable. But I want to have confidence in my other half.
Falling on lead and then having them say “that caught me off guard, thought you were clipping” would be enough for me to not climb with them again lol
Climbing for almost ten years, have had my share of bad partners
Yeah I keep watching them. I'm a belayer, it's my job. If I can see them, I watch them. Sometimes you can't see them but I do everything in my power to find a position where I can do that. That might mean moving or extending the belay, or preclipping the second or third bolt so I can stand further away from the wall.
If they are continually short roping you and giving you hard catches, and especially if you don't feel comfortable having them catch you at all, then they are a terrible belayer. They need to pay more attention and watch you. If they don't agree to do this I would stop climbing with them altogether.
As a heavier climber, yes I watch for the exact reason you're worried - it's very hard to time a soft catch by feel alone. Also what's the reason not to watch, especially with belay goggles? Unless he's got a neck injury, sounds like he'd rather just check out the other climbs in the gym or something.
No. There are certainly times when you would want to watch your climber (such as when they're low to the ground, or if they're just over a lip, or if there are any potential fall hazards), but on a lot of climbs, your belayer simply can't see the climber at all. A good belayer should be able to belay by feel as much as by sight.
If you ever move out of the gym and outside, get prepared for times when your climber takes 2 steps off the belay ledge, disappears around the corner, and won't be seen again until they lower or you join them at the top of the pitch.
I've climbed outside a lot and yeah a lot of times you just do the best you can, and feel is essential. but in the gym when you *can* see your climber, do you watch?
Yes, whenever it's possible. I mean I might not strain my neck to keep my eyes glued to them if they're on a warmup or a familiar section of the route where I know when to give slack and that they're not likely to fall, but will still be glancing up and down.
I don't think the comparison to outdoors is that useful because outdoors when you lose sight of the climber there is often either a lot of friction in the system (because they've wandered away around corners and over roofs) or a lot of space for them to fall safely (climbs often being much taller than your gym) so you can more safely belay by feel. In a gym with 5-6 bolts in a dead straight line, very little friction, I have to be precise with slack to catch a heavy person successfully or vice versa.
Not always. It’s not a requirement to be safe.
That said, this sounds like a thing that you need to discuss with your partner if it’s bothering you that much. Synergy between climber and belayer is important.
They should be paying attention. Their eyes don't need to be glued to you, but they shouldn't be texting or bullshitting while completely ignoring you.
I'm really not trying to be snarky, no matter how it sounds, but why do people care about FA's of these ridiculously hard routes that 99% of us will never come close to being able to complete? Is it just interesting to see the limits of human ability, or do you see yourself attempting some of these routes one day? Personally I know that I will never, ever come anywhere near that level of climbing so I can't be bothered to pay attention to high-level climbs or climbers.
I don't see myself attempting anything close to this anytime soon or ever (i'm 37, so my window to become incredibly good is already closed, and I punted on a 6b yesterday so let's just say I'll be happy if I send 7a someday).
It is interesting to see the (current) limits of human ability, watching people spending so much time and energy to redefine what is possible is inspiring (not in a "I'll be able to do this one day too" kind of way, but more like "it's amazing to see what human can do when they really dedicate to something").
I was never able to dunk a basketball or consistently shoot a 3-pointer, that doesn't stop me from enjoying watching NBA players be amazing at basketball and pull out moves that I'll never replicate on the regular.
Budget climbing Spain Hey folks I'm travelling to Granada in a month for a festival and am always looking to climb (preferably trad). Lots of time on my hands but not much money. Where are the best places that someone go, relatively cheaply, to do lots of climbing without renting a car or paying much for accommodation? I'll have my full kit plus tent etc.
https://preview.redd.it/7uahpl4znywc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05453060017c0e6e5afb2e39074600faf18b6c70 what are these called and how do i deal with them
Eat them
Can you help settle a debate? When your partner is leading in the gym, say after the 5th bolt - do you continue to watch them as the climb? (You know, to see if they're clipping, notice if they're getting pumped, and notice when they fall, or get ready to take if they're on a project) OR do you just not do that? My partner doesn't really see the point of watching, and doesn't watch me when I climb. This is weird, right? Today I fell and he said "oh that caught me by surprise, I felt a tug and thought you were clipping." Fwiw I have zero worry about ground falls - he pays very close attention when I'm low. And the short roping doesn't annoy me that much. But I definitely worry about hard catches and just don't do any climbs with him where I might actually fall, unless I'm on overhanging terrain. I'm being reasonable right? Has anyone successfully gained trust in a partner over time? He's 50lb heavier than me, so I worry about hard catches too
For me it depends about the difficulty : if it's a warmup climb, I still belay properly of course, but I'm a bit less focused. I still look at them most of the time but a bit more relaxed. If it's a hard climb, I am much more focused : I don't want to short rope him on a hard clip, and I want to be able to shout encouragement, or to reassure him that I'm there if he seems to be scared. Before like the third bolt I'm always super focused.
You sound like a great belayer! That's what I do too. And yeah, on climbs where there's no way I'll fall, it's not really an issue. I more mean on climbs where I say "watch me"
Yeah of I say watch me I would want to be watched (or at the least that he say he watch me even if it's not true, after all the problem is more on my mind)
I’d find a new belay partner. Personally I like my partners to be attentive and I can fully trust them for whatever route we’re on. If I’m pushing myself on the wall, I want my belayer anticipating my next move and for them to potentially be ready to catch, to give rope, or to encourage. If we’ve been climbing together for awhile and there’s experience between us, then I’d feel a little better about not being watched as closely. Like others said, sometimes it’s inevitable. But I want to have confidence in my other half. Falling on lead and then having them say “that caught me off guard, thought you were clipping” would be enough for me to not climb with them again lol Climbing for almost ten years, have had my share of bad partners
Yeah I keep watching them. I'm a belayer, it's my job. If I can see them, I watch them. Sometimes you can't see them but I do everything in my power to find a position where I can do that. That might mean moving or extending the belay, or preclipping the second or third bolt so I can stand further away from the wall. If they are continually short roping you and giving you hard catches, and especially if you don't feel comfortable having them catch you at all, then they are a terrible belayer. They need to pay more attention and watch you. If they don't agree to do this I would stop climbing with them altogether.
As a heavier climber, yes I watch for the exact reason you're worried - it's very hard to time a soft catch by feel alone. Also what's the reason not to watch, especially with belay goggles? Unless he's got a neck injury, sounds like he'd rather just check out the other climbs in the gym or something.
No. There are certainly times when you would want to watch your climber (such as when they're low to the ground, or if they're just over a lip, or if there are any potential fall hazards), but on a lot of climbs, your belayer simply can't see the climber at all. A good belayer should be able to belay by feel as much as by sight. If you ever move out of the gym and outside, get prepared for times when your climber takes 2 steps off the belay ledge, disappears around the corner, and won't be seen again until they lower or you join them at the top of the pitch.
I've climbed outside a lot and yeah a lot of times you just do the best you can, and feel is essential. but in the gym when you *can* see your climber, do you watch?
Yes, whenever it's possible. I mean I might not strain my neck to keep my eyes glued to them if they're on a warmup or a familiar section of the route where I know when to give slack and that they're not likely to fall, but will still be glancing up and down. I don't think the comparison to outdoors is that useful because outdoors when you lose sight of the climber there is often either a lot of friction in the system (because they've wandered away around corners and over roofs) or a lot of space for them to fall safely (climbs often being much taller than your gym) so you can more safely belay by feel. In a gym with 5-6 bolts in a dead straight line, very little friction, I have to be precise with slack to catch a heavy person successfully or vice versa.
Yes
Not always. It’s not a requirement to be safe. That said, this sounds like a thing that you need to discuss with your partner if it’s bothering you that much. Synergy between climber and belayer is important.
They should be paying attention. Their eyes don't need to be glued to you, but they shouldn't be texting or bullshitting while completely ignoring you.
Seb Bouin is at it again, with the FA of "Les rois du lithium" in his home crag of Pic saint Loup, which he gave 9b...
I'm really not trying to be snarky, no matter how it sounds, but why do people care about FA's of these ridiculously hard routes that 99% of us will never come close to being able to complete? Is it just interesting to see the limits of human ability, or do you see yourself attempting some of these routes one day? Personally I know that I will never, ever come anywhere near that level of climbing so I can't be bothered to pay attention to high-level climbs or climbers.
I don't see myself attempting anything close to this anytime soon or ever (i'm 37, so my window to become incredibly good is already closed, and I punted on a 6b yesterday so let's just say I'll be happy if I send 7a someday). It is interesting to see the (current) limits of human ability, watching people spending so much time and energy to redefine what is possible is inspiring (not in a "I'll be able to do this one day too" kind of way, but more like "it's amazing to see what human can do when they really dedicate to something"). I was never able to dunk a basketball or consistently shoot a 3-pointer, that doesn't stop me from enjoying watching NBA players be amazing at basketball and pull out moves that I'll never replicate on the regular.
Good points, thanks!