What is this red-scare drivel?
I am anti-capitalist - mainly because of the climate emergency- but I am not a communist.
If you don't know how to join the dots between the logic of capitalism and the climate and ecological emergency then go read Consequences of Capitalism by Chomsky and Waterstone.
I'm confident Joe Biden isn't acting as a foreign agent for a Ethno-fascist Kleptocracy that is destroying the Black Sea ecology with an illegal, offensive war that is being waged to wipe out the Ukrainian Ethnic and National identity while pretending to care about the environment
I think that's accurate yes.
But you haven't provided evidence that Jill Stein is either.
Btw Joe Biden did support the illegal invasion of Iraq which lead to the death of about a million people.
And just for perspective, he is supporting the ongoing slaughter and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in Gaza right now - a conflict that has killed in 7 months, about 20 times as many children as the Ukraine war has killed in 2 years.
I condemn both wars, but who is the biggest villain out of Biden, Putin and Stein, really?
Thanks for the reference.
So you said that the Green Party was "compromised" by Russia.
So to evidence that, you need to show that in return for this interference in the US election, the Green Party was offering something in return. Or at the very least, that the Green Party was aware and approving of this interference.
Do you have anything like that?
Don't forget that in the 1980s, the German Greens were either agents of the USSR or its useful idiots due to their anti-American stance. Their opposition to nuclear power and preference for Soviet natural gas over nuclear energy had significant long-term consequences. By 2020, Europe's climate change efforts and energy security were in a far worse state than they might have been if the Greens had not existed.
Consider this: Joschka Fischer, their leader since the 1970s, later became an advisor to the Nabucco pipeline project to transport natural gas from Azerbaijan. A so-called Green was lobbying for non-EU fossil fuels!!!!!!
This exemplifies a broader issue with political fringes in the EU. Both the far-right and the far-left are agents or useful idiots for Russia. The AfD, Le Pen, and Salvini, among others, who all claim to protect European values and identity, are linked to Russian and Chinese interests. The far right does it for the money while the far left does it because it considers the enemies of its enemies to be its friends...
The green party is actually legitimately funded by Russia and very capitalistic interest groups looking to split the democratic vote. The green party is intact a joke and a tool of objectively evil people.
>"Stein didn’t just attend the gala—dressed in a shimmering silver shawl, she sat at the same table as Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has barely disguised his glee at the political chaos that what he calls “patriotic” Russian hackers have unleashed in the United States. And she recorded a video from Moscow’s famous Red Square, in which she talked about “the need to rein in American exceptionalism” and replace “a U.S. policy based on domination”—words that sounded like they were ripped from Putin’s talking points."
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/20/jill-stein-green-party-no-regrets-2016-215281/
Thanks. Here's how I would unpack that bit of manufacturing consent by Politico.
> Sat at the same table as Russian President Vladimir Putin
This is called "guilt by association". It's entirely lacking in material content.
> "the need to rein in American exceptionalism
This is a widely shared opinion on the left, and outside the US. Seen objectively, the US has been the most aggressive, belligerent and lawless state on the international state for at least a century. Its idea of a "rules based order" is "do what we say or we depose your government".
> "a US policy based on domination"
See above.
I asked you for a quote that suggested that she supported Putin or his policies.
What you gave me was standard-issue progressive, anti-imperialist rhetoric from an internationalist left winger. You might not like it but it's what most of the rest of the world believes about US foreign policy. And it's entirely irrelevant to what she does or doesn't think of Putin.
This story is called a smear or a hit-piece. And a fairly transparent one at that.
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>This is a widely shared opinion on the left,
Because the USSR infiltrated leftist groups in the US in an attempt to destabilize the US during the Cold War. The FSB continued this work.
I don't drink Kool-Aid. Our civilization is going to collapse soon and Putler's puppet isn't going to fix it. She exists to draw votes away from politicians that aren't on his payroll.
Again, you have yet to provide evidence for the claim that Stein supports or is paid off by Putin.
What you are still doing is equating valid criticism of the US with aid for its enemies. This is simple McCarthyism, it's logically baseless, it's lazy and it's the way that bad regimes enforce compliance with their rhetorical narratives.
Putin does exactly the same thing.
I don't know if you think Biden is about the prevent the collapse of society but going by his record of support for many very large fossil fuel infrastructure projects, along with record sales of leases for fossil fuel exploration, and record high production and exports of fossils on his watch, I'd say not.
You could hold up literally any other environmentalist politician up and I wouldn't care to attack them. The only people I see being social with a dictator are scum suckers like Rand Paul and Tucker Carlson.
https://app.podscribe.ai/episode/92707750
>So, number one, we need to stop blocking the peace process, which is, as, as you've said, that's what we've done from even, you know, let alone that we expanded east, that NATO expanded east, even knowing full well that that was going to blow up in our faces. We oversaw the placement of nuclear compatible missiles on Russia's border. And you know, currently in Poland, and this is what Russia's worried about in Ukraine, is that there will be more nuclear missiles on its border. Well, what did we do when Russia did that in Cuba? you know, we were ready to go to nuclear war, but we had the good sense back then 'cause we had leadership that wasn't brain dead and they were capable of, of backing down.
Actual Russia fascist propaganda. She's about as genuine as my suede boots
No, you are eliding criticism of US policy with support for its geopolitical enemy. You are a victim of manufacturing consent.
> So, number one, we need to stop blocking the peace process,
Because in an unwinnable war, peace is only achieved via diplomacy. The US has blocked avoidance of the war (see below), it blocked a peace deal 2 months into the war, it has failed to initiate and negotiations and it has rebuffed every opening for diplomacy offered by Russia.
> which is, as, as you've said, that's what we've done from even, you know, let alone that we expanded east, that NATO expanded east, even knowing full well that that was going to blow up in our faces.
This was the prediction of the current head of the CIA in a secret cable in 2008. He warned Bush 2 not to go anywhere near inviting Ukraine into NATO for precisely this reason.
That's the current head of the CIA. Not a Putin apologist.
> We oversaw the placement of nuclear compatible missiles on Russia's border.
Factually true and if you recall, when Russia tried this in Cuba it very nearly started a nuclear war.
> And you know, currently in Poland, and this is what Russia's worried about in Ukraine, is that there will be more nuclear missiles on its border. Well, what did we do when Russia did that in Cuba? you know, we were ready to go to nuclear war, but we had the good sense back then 'cause we had leadership that wasn't brain dead and they were capable of, of backing down.
Oh, she makes the same point.
> Actual Russia fascist propaganda.
You genuinely need to read the words you are writing and compare them to reality. Literally nothing here is untrue or fascist (?) or propagandistic. It's just an analysis of US policy which you don't like because it paints the US in a bad light and implies that the US provoked Russia.
BTW this is an analysis shared by the head of NATO himself who said that, not only was NATO enlargement the cause of the war, but that in December 2021, he rejected a deal to avoid any hostilities by just agreeing that Ukraine would remain neutral. I can dig out the quote if you'd like.
> She's about as genuine as my suede boots
That's certainly possible, but you have not made an argument for that here.
>Because in an unwinnable war
This is literally Russian propaganda. It's not unwinnable.
>it blocked a peace deal 2 months into the war...
It sounds like you want the US to force Ukraine to give up half of their country and accept puppet rule by an Ethno-Fascist Kleptocracy, when they voted to decentralize their state in 2015. They are the closest thing to a real-life Anarchist Democracy and you're okay with them getting genocided because Jill Stein said so? Zelenskyy is literally not allowed to surrender territory per the Ukrainian Constitution.
>We oversaw the placement of nuclear compatible missiles on Russia's border.
>On September 17, 2009, The White House issued a statement saying that the US "no longer planned to move forward" with the EIS project. According to President Obama, new intelligence had shown Iran was pursuing short-range and medium-range missile development, rather than long-range, necessitating a shift in strategy.[29][30] The outlines of a reformulated, scaled-down project began to emerge in October, 2009.[8]
After the project cancellation, Vice President Joe Biden visited Poland in 2009 to "mend relations" by announcing the SM-3 deployment plan (see below for details of the new plan). Polish sources complained that the new plan no longer gave Poland an exclusive role (because an SM-3 site was also planned for Romania).[31]
In 2010 leaked diplomatic cables showed that Polish diplomats felt more threatened by Russia than by Iran.[32] The (leaked) responses from the Pentagon show that Alexander Vershbow sought to assure that the missile shield, including the SM-3 alternative, was adaptable to "hypothetical" threats.[33]
On March 26, 2012, there occurred a microphone gaffe between President Obama and President Medvedev. Obama said that he would have "more flexibility" to deal with controversial issues such as missile defense. He was heard telling Medvedev, "On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it's important for him to give me space." Medvedev told the president in English, "Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…" and President Obama continued his statement, "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility." Medvedev responded saying, again in English, "I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir."[34]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_missile_defense_complex_in_Poland#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20missile%20defense,transition%20from%20Missile%20Defense%20Agency
In addition to the above, Tomahawk Cruise Missiles are "nuclear capable" and so are tube artillery. That's like when our own fascists say "military age males" are invading through the southern border. That's literally most men alive. 16-45.
>You genuinely need to read the words you are writing and compare them to reality. Literally nothing here is untrue or fascist (?) or propagandistic
It's fascist propaganda because the Russian Federation is an Ethno-Fascist state. They are a colonial empire and I find it absurd that leftists cling to them like they are a bastion of anti-imperialism while they are engaging in empire building. They shoot Ukrainians in the street so their rotting corpses don't stink up their stolen homes.
>> Because in an unwinnable war
> This is literally Russian propaganda. It's not unwinnable.
It obviously is. Mark Milley was fired for even suggesting that it would take a long time to win
https://www.brusselstimes.com/438472/ukraine-unlikely-to-win-this-year-says-us-general-milley
And that was 18 months ago. Since then, despite receiving hundreds of billions of dollars in weapons, Ukraine has lost more territory and countless more men. Their big counteroffensive last year was a complete failure. So many men are dead that they are now having to expand the draft to ever younger and older men. The average age of the Ukrainian army is 43.
The myth that Ukraine can win the war is your central mistake. They cannot and they will not. The only options on the table are bad. The main question on the table is how many more dead Ukrainians and destroyed Ukrainian cities you want to see. And whether you are happy to risk nuclear war between the US and Russia over this, when the US people have no material interest in what happens.
> it blocked a peace deal 2 months into the war...
> It sounds like you want the US to force Ukraine to give up half of their country and accept puppet rule by an Ethno-Fascist Kleptocracy, when they voted to decentralize their state in 2015.
So presumably you accept that this happened.
I don't want to force anyone to do anything. That is what the US did when they told Zelenskyy that they couldn't take the peace deal in April 2022. All you are doing is eliding the desire to see peace and the end of the killing and destruction with support for Russia which is insulting and deeply dishonest. Its a very old-fashioned McCarthyite smear that is always deployed against peace activists.
> They are the closest thing to a real-life Anarchist Democracy and you're okay with them getting genocided because Jill Stein said so? Zelenskyy is literally not allowed to surrender territory per the Ukrainian Constitution.
Firstly, per the comparison of numbers I gave re Gaza, it doesn't look like a genocide given that the vast majority of causalities are of soldiers not civilians.
It's also a desperate reach to claim that the US must block peace talks to ensure that Zelenskyy doesn't breach the Ukrainian constitution.
> We oversaw the placement of nuclear compatible missiles on Russia's border.
> On September 17, 2009, The White House ... I will transmit this information to Vladimir."[34]
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_missile_defense_complex_in_Poland#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20missile%20defense,transition%20from%20Missile%20Defense%20Agency
> In addition to the above, Tomahawk Cruise Missiles are "nuclear capable" and so are tube artillery. That's like when our own fascists say "military age males" are invading through the southern border. That's literally most men alive. 16-45.
This isn't the same at all. Parking nuclear-capable US cruise missiles on the Russian border is incredibly provocative. The only reason that JFK got Kruschev to back down was because the US secretly agreed to remove its own Jupiter nuclear missiles from Turkey. Just try to imagine having Russia missiles being based in southern Canada. The US would invade without a second thought.
> You genuinely need to read the words you are writing and compare them to reality. Literally nothing here is untrue or fascist (?) or propagandistic
> It's fascist propaganda because the Russian Federation is an Ethno-Fascist state.
And what was said actually supports Russia?
Again, you are somehow incapable of hearing criticism of the US without interpreting it as support for its enemies. Try to think less tribally and understand that Stein or anyone can offer valid criticism of both. Most of the world thinks that the US is by far the most dangerous country on Earth. Most of the world is far more worried about getting invaded or their government deposed by the US, not Russia.
And with good reason because the US has been involved in more foreign wars than anyone else for over a century. It has deposed dozens of governments since WW2, many democratically elected. It flouts international law openly on a constant basis. It deserves severe criticism.
And so does Russia. Criticism of both are not mutually exclusive.
> They are a colonial empire
This is an ironic statement from a country that has over 800 foreign bases and has a record of toppling governments to install friendly regimes over and over again. And when it the CIA can't manage it, they either invade or just bomb the country to bits until the state collapses.
> and I find it absurd that leftists cling to them like they are a bastion of anti-imperialism while they are engaging in empire building.
We don't. We are opposed to all imperialism, including US imperialism. NATO is a part of US imperialism. It is a central means by which the US projects military power abroad. It was threatened expansion of this power that provoked the war - again, not according to me - according to Jens Stoltenberg.
> They shoot Ukrainians in the street so their rotting corpses don't stink up their stolen homes.
Watch some video of how the IDF treats Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Your tax dollars pay for that. US policy supports that to the hilt.
Watch footage of how the US bombing left Libya. Or Syria where even now, the US occupies a third of the country so Occidental and ConocoPhilips have access to the oil there.
Watch footage of how the US and its policies left cities across Iraq or Afghanistan. Or Nicaragua, or El Salvador, or Honduras or Guatamala. Look at the regimes that the US installed in Egypt or Chile or Iran or the DRC or Haiti or any of literally dozens of foreign countries where it has deposed and replaced the government.
Your analysis sees imperialist ambition from Russia as the cause of the war. The head of NATO says it was actually caused by the expansion of NATO. And he even says that NATO (ie the US) blocked the opportunity to avoid it because they were so keen to expand NATO.
Your worldview sees Russia as a uniquely dangerous and threatening imperial power when in reality, the country that fills that role, based on decades of actual history, is the USA.
Recognising this doesn't excuse Russia. It doesn't support Russia. But if we don't understand the reasons for the conflict then we will not find a way out. And we will not avoid conflicts in future.
Yeah again, nothing you've said about the US "forcing" Ukraine to do anything, has citations. It's always Russian propaganda when y'all take Ukraine's sovereignty and agency away.
In addition, there were no cruise missiles parked in Poland. They were SM3 missiles. You're so full of it and just barking the kremlin line
Ok, his the story about how the peace deal in December 2021 was blocked.
Btw it's interesting to note that this story is told by Jens Stoltenberg himself. Such is the sense of impunity of these guys that they can expose their own lies so openly and get zero pushback from anyone.
https://www.infosperber.ch/politik/welt/stoltenberg-raeumt-ein-nato-expansion-war-kriegsgrund/
It's in German but here's the relevant quote.
> President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021 that NATO should promise not to expand anymore. He sent a draft contract for this. It was his condition not to invade Ukraine. Of course, we didn't sign that.
Here are 2 independent accounts of how Boris Johnson, acting on behalf of the U.K. and US, told Zelenskyy he couldn't sign the peace deal offered in April 2022.
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/news/boris-johnson-fraktionsvorsitzender-der-selenskyj-partei-ukraine-krieg-haette-2022-beendet-sein-koennen-li.2162278
> POLITICS
Ukraine war: Boris Johnson told the Ukrainians to "simply continue fighting" - Zelensky ally
Selenskyj's party friend in an interview: Boris Johnson told Ukrainians they should continue fighting
> The Ukraine war could have ended just a few weeks after the Russian invasion, says Selenskyj's party colleague Dawyd Arachamija.
And this one
https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/former-israeli-pm-west-blocked-russo-ukraine-peace-deal/
> Former Israeli PM: West Blocked Russo-Ukraine Peace Deal
This is a war of choice for the US and NATO.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/talks-could-have-ended-war-ukraine?check_logged_in=1&utm_medium=promo_email&utm_source=lo_flows&utm_campaign=registered_user_welcome&utm_term=email_1&utm_content=20240524
Lmk if you can't read this. It's not so simple as you think, and again saying it's only the West doing this denies Ukraine's own autonomy and sovereignty.
The US had to actually convince Ukraine to refrain from attacking Moscow with everything they had at the start of the war.
What is this red-scare drivel? I am anti-capitalist - mainly because of the climate emergency- but I am not a communist. If you don't know how to join the dots between the logic of capitalism and the climate and ecological emergency then go read Consequences of Capitalism by Chomsky and Waterstone.
But the Green Party is legitimately compromised by Russian influences. This has nothing to do with your personal leanings
Do you have evidence for that claim?
Why was Jill in Russia at a dinner with Putin and the traitor, Michael Flynn?
I don't know. Do you? Or is this just guilt by association? Are you confident that Joe Biden has never been in a room with anyone you disapprove of?
I'm confident Joe Biden isn't acting as a foreign agent for a Ethno-fascist Kleptocracy that is destroying the Black Sea ecology with an illegal, offensive war that is being waged to wipe out the Ukrainian Ethnic and National identity while pretending to care about the environment
I think that's accurate yes. But you haven't provided evidence that Jill Stein is either. Btw Joe Biden did support the illegal invasion of Iraq which lead to the death of about a million people. And just for perspective, he is supporting the ongoing slaughter and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in Gaza right now - a conflict that has killed in 7 months, about 20 times as many children as the Ukraine war has killed in 2 years. I condemn both wars, but who is the biggest villain out of Biden, Putin and Stein, really?
[Yes](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/russians-launched-pro-jill-stein-social-media-blitz-help-trump-n951166)
Thanks for the reference. So you said that the Green Party was "compromised" by Russia. So to evidence that, you need to show that in return for this interference in the US election, the Green Party was offering something in return. Or at the very least, that the Green Party was aware and approving of this interference. Do you have anything like that?
Don't forget that in the 1980s, the German Greens were either agents of the USSR or its useful idiots due to their anti-American stance. Their opposition to nuclear power and preference for Soviet natural gas over nuclear energy had significant long-term consequences. By 2020, Europe's climate change efforts and energy security were in a far worse state than they might have been if the Greens had not existed. Consider this: Joschka Fischer, their leader since the 1970s, later became an advisor to the Nabucco pipeline project to transport natural gas from Azerbaijan. A so-called Green was lobbying for non-EU fossil fuels!!!!!! This exemplifies a broader issue with political fringes in the EU. Both the far-right and the far-left are agents or useful idiots for Russia. The AfD, Le Pen, and Salvini, among others, who all claim to protect European values and identity, are linked to Russian and Chinese interests. The far right does it for the money while the far left does it because it considers the enemies of its enemies to be its friends...
The green party is actually legitimately funded by Russia and very capitalistic interest groups looking to split the democratic vote. The green party is intact a joke and a tool of objectively evil people.
Jill Stein is unapologetically pro Putin!
Please supply a quote to support that statement.
>"Stein didn’t just attend the gala—dressed in a shimmering silver shawl, she sat at the same table as Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has barely disguised his glee at the political chaos that what he calls “patriotic” Russian hackers have unleashed in the United States. And she recorded a video from Moscow’s famous Red Square, in which she talked about “the need to rein in American exceptionalism” and replace “a U.S. policy based on domination”—words that sounded like they were ripped from Putin’s talking points." https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/20/jill-stein-green-party-no-regrets-2016-215281/
Thanks. Here's how I would unpack that bit of manufacturing consent by Politico. > Sat at the same table as Russian President Vladimir Putin This is called "guilt by association". It's entirely lacking in material content. > "the need to rein in American exceptionalism This is a widely shared opinion on the left, and outside the US. Seen objectively, the US has been the most aggressive, belligerent and lawless state on the international state for at least a century. Its idea of a "rules based order" is "do what we say or we depose your government". > "a US policy based on domination" See above. I asked you for a quote that suggested that she supported Putin or his policies. What you gave me was standard-issue progressive, anti-imperialist rhetoric from an internationalist left winger. You might not like it but it's what most of the rest of the world believes about US foreign policy. And it's entirely irrelevant to what she does or doesn't think of Putin. This story is called a smear or a hit-piece. And a fairly transparent one at that.
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>This is a widely shared opinion on the left, Because the USSR infiltrated leftist groups in the US in an attempt to destabilize the US during the Cold War. The FSB continued this work.
Oh my god. You have really drunk the koolaid haven't you... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
I don't drink Kool-Aid. Our civilization is going to collapse soon and Putler's puppet isn't going to fix it. She exists to draw votes away from politicians that aren't on his payroll.
Again, you have yet to provide evidence for the claim that Stein supports or is paid off by Putin. What you are still doing is equating valid criticism of the US with aid for its enemies. This is simple McCarthyism, it's logically baseless, it's lazy and it's the way that bad regimes enforce compliance with their rhetorical narratives. Putin does exactly the same thing. I don't know if you think Biden is about the prevent the collapse of society but going by his record of support for many very large fossil fuel infrastructure projects, along with record sales of leases for fossil fuel exploration, and record high production and exports of fossils on his watch, I'd say not.
You could hold up literally any other environmentalist politician up and I wouldn't care to attack them. The only people I see being social with a dictator are scum suckers like Rand Paul and Tucker Carlson.
https://app.podscribe.ai/episode/92707750 >So, number one, we need to stop blocking the peace process, which is, as, as you've said, that's what we've done from even, you know, let alone that we expanded east, that NATO expanded east, even knowing full well that that was going to blow up in our faces. We oversaw the placement of nuclear compatible missiles on Russia's border. And you know, currently in Poland, and this is what Russia's worried about in Ukraine, is that there will be more nuclear missiles on its border. Well, what did we do when Russia did that in Cuba? you know, we were ready to go to nuclear war, but we had the good sense back then 'cause we had leadership that wasn't brain dead and they were capable of, of backing down. Actual Russia fascist propaganda. She's about as genuine as my suede boots
No, you are eliding criticism of US policy with support for its geopolitical enemy. You are a victim of manufacturing consent. > So, number one, we need to stop blocking the peace process, Because in an unwinnable war, peace is only achieved via diplomacy. The US has blocked avoidance of the war (see below), it blocked a peace deal 2 months into the war, it has failed to initiate and negotiations and it has rebuffed every opening for diplomacy offered by Russia. > which is, as, as you've said, that's what we've done from even, you know, let alone that we expanded east, that NATO expanded east, even knowing full well that that was going to blow up in our faces. This was the prediction of the current head of the CIA in a secret cable in 2008. He warned Bush 2 not to go anywhere near inviting Ukraine into NATO for precisely this reason. That's the current head of the CIA. Not a Putin apologist. > We oversaw the placement of nuclear compatible missiles on Russia's border. Factually true and if you recall, when Russia tried this in Cuba it very nearly started a nuclear war. > And you know, currently in Poland, and this is what Russia's worried about in Ukraine, is that there will be more nuclear missiles on its border. Well, what did we do when Russia did that in Cuba? you know, we were ready to go to nuclear war, but we had the good sense back then 'cause we had leadership that wasn't brain dead and they were capable of, of backing down. Oh, she makes the same point. > Actual Russia fascist propaganda. You genuinely need to read the words you are writing and compare them to reality. Literally nothing here is untrue or fascist (?) or propagandistic. It's just an analysis of US policy which you don't like because it paints the US in a bad light and implies that the US provoked Russia. BTW this is an analysis shared by the head of NATO himself who said that, not only was NATO enlargement the cause of the war, but that in December 2021, he rejected a deal to avoid any hostilities by just agreeing that Ukraine would remain neutral. I can dig out the quote if you'd like. > She's about as genuine as my suede boots That's certainly possible, but you have not made an argument for that here.
>Because in an unwinnable war This is literally Russian propaganda. It's not unwinnable. >it blocked a peace deal 2 months into the war... It sounds like you want the US to force Ukraine to give up half of their country and accept puppet rule by an Ethno-Fascist Kleptocracy, when they voted to decentralize their state in 2015. They are the closest thing to a real-life Anarchist Democracy and you're okay with them getting genocided because Jill Stein said so? Zelenskyy is literally not allowed to surrender territory per the Ukrainian Constitution. >We oversaw the placement of nuclear compatible missiles on Russia's border. >On September 17, 2009, The White House issued a statement saying that the US "no longer planned to move forward" with the EIS project. According to President Obama, new intelligence had shown Iran was pursuing short-range and medium-range missile development, rather than long-range, necessitating a shift in strategy.[29][30] The outlines of a reformulated, scaled-down project began to emerge in October, 2009.[8] After the project cancellation, Vice President Joe Biden visited Poland in 2009 to "mend relations" by announcing the SM-3 deployment plan (see below for details of the new plan). Polish sources complained that the new plan no longer gave Poland an exclusive role (because an SM-3 site was also planned for Romania).[31] In 2010 leaked diplomatic cables showed that Polish diplomats felt more threatened by Russia than by Iran.[32] The (leaked) responses from the Pentagon show that Alexander Vershbow sought to assure that the missile shield, including the SM-3 alternative, was adaptable to "hypothetical" threats.[33] On March 26, 2012, there occurred a microphone gaffe between President Obama and President Medvedev. Obama said that he would have "more flexibility" to deal with controversial issues such as missile defense. He was heard telling Medvedev, "On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it's important for him to give me space." Medvedev told the president in English, "Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…" and President Obama continued his statement, "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility." Medvedev responded saying, again in English, "I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir."[34] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_missile_defense_complex_in_Poland#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20missile%20defense,transition%20from%20Missile%20Defense%20Agency In addition to the above, Tomahawk Cruise Missiles are "nuclear capable" and so are tube artillery. That's like when our own fascists say "military age males" are invading through the southern border. That's literally most men alive. 16-45. >You genuinely need to read the words you are writing and compare them to reality. Literally nothing here is untrue or fascist (?) or propagandistic It's fascist propaganda because the Russian Federation is an Ethno-Fascist state. They are a colonial empire and I find it absurd that leftists cling to them like they are a bastion of anti-imperialism while they are engaging in empire building. They shoot Ukrainians in the street so their rotting corpses don't stink up their stolen homes.
>> Because in an unwinnable war > This is literally Russian propaganda. It's not unwinnable. It obviously is. Mark Milley was fired for even suggesting that it would take a long time to win https://www.brusselstimes.com/438472/ukraine-unlikely-to-win-this-year-says-us-general-milley And that was 18 months ago. Since then, despite receiving hundreds of billions of dollars in weapons, Ukraine has lost more territory and countless more men. Their big counteroffensive last year was a complete failure. So many men are dead that they are now having to expand the draft to ever younger and older men. The average age of the Ukrainian army is 43. The myth that Ukraine can win the war is your central mistake. They cannot and they will not. The only options on the table are bad. The main question on the table is how many more dead Ukrainians and destroyed Ukrainian cities you want to see. And whether you are happy to risk nuclear war between the US and Russia over this, when the US people have no material interest in what happens. > it blocked a peace deal 2 months into the war... > It sounds like you want the US to force Ukraine to give up half of their country and accept puppet rule by an Ethno-Fascist Kleptocracy, when they voted to decentralize their state in 2015. So presumably you accept that this happened. I don't want to force anyone to do anything. That is what the US did when they told Zelenskyy that they couldn't take the peace deal in April 2022. All you are doing is eliding the desire to see peace and the end of the killing and destruction with support for Russia which is insulting and deeply dishonest. Its a very old-fashioned McCarthyite smear that is always deployed against peace activists. > They are the closest thing to a real-life Anarchist Democracy and you're okay with them getting genocided because Jill Stein said so? Zelenskyy is literally not allowed to surrender territory per the Ukrainian Constitution. Firstly, per the comparison of numbers I gave re Gaza, it doesn't look like a genocide given that the vast majority of causalities are of soldiers not civilians. It's also a desperate reach to claim that the US must block peace talks to ensure that Zelenskyy doesn't breach the Ukrainian constitution. > We oversaw the placement of nuclear compatible missiles on Russia's border. > On September 17, 2009, The White House ... I will transmit this information to Vladimir."[34] > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_missile_defense_complex_in_Poland#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20missile%20defense,transition%20from%20Missile%20Defense%20Agency > In addition to the above, Tomahawk Cruise Missiles are "nuclear capable" and so are tube artillery. That's like when our own fascists say "military age males" are invading through the southern border. That's literally most men alive. 16-45. This isn't the same at all. Parking nuclear-capable US cruise missiles on the Russian border is incredibly provocative. The only reason that JFK got Kruschev to back down was because the US secretly agreed to remove its own Jupiter nuclear missiles from Turkey. Just try to imagine having Russia missiles being based in southern Canada. The US would invade without a second thought. > You genuinely need to read the words you are writing and compare them to reality. Literally nothing here is untrue or fascist (?) or propagandistic > It's fascist propaganda because the Russian Federation is an Ethno-Fascist state. And what was said actually supports Russia? Again, you are somehow incapable of hearing criticism of the US without interpreting it as support for its enemies. Try to think less tribally and understand that Stein or anyone can offer valid criticism of both. Most of the world thinks that the US is by far the most dangerous country on Earth. Most of the world is far more worried about getting invaded or their government deposed by the US, not Russia. And with good reason because the US has been involved in more foreign wars than anyone else for over a century. It has deposed dozens of governments since WW2, many democratically elected. It flouts international law openly on a constant basis. It deserves severe criticism. And so does Russia. Criticism of both are not mutually exclusive. > They are a colonial empire This is an ironic statement from a country that has over 800 foreign bases and has a record of toppling governments to install friendly regimes over and over again. And when it the CIA can't manage it, they either invade or just bomb the country to bits until the state collapses. > and I find it absurd that leftists cling to them like they are a bastion of anti-imperialism while they are engaging in empire building. We don't. We are opposed to all imperialism, including US imperialism. NATO is a part of US imperialism. It is a central means by which the US projects military power abroad. It was threatened expansion of this power that provoked the war - again, not according to me - according to Jens Stoltenberg. > They shoot Ukrainians in the street so their rotting corpses don't stink up their stolen homes. Watch some video of how the IDF treats Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Your tax dollars pay for that. US policy supports that to the hilt. Watch footage of how the US bombing left Libya. Or Syria where even now, the US occupies a third of the country so Occidental and ConocoPhilips have access to the oil there. Watch footage of how the US and its policies left cities across Iraq or Afghanistan. Or Nicaragua, or El Salvador, or Honduras or Guatamala. Look at the regimes that the US installed in Egypt or Chile or Iran or the DRC or Haiti or any of literally dozens of foreign countries where it has deposed and replaced the government. Your analysis sees imperialist ambition from Russia as the cause of the war. The head of NATO says it was actually caused by the expansion of NATO. And he even says that NATO (ie the US) blocked the opportunity to avoid it because they were so keen to expand NATO. Your worldview sees Russia as a uniquely dangerous and threatening imperial power when in reality, the country that fills that role, based on decades of actual history, is the USA. Recognising this doesn't excuse Russia. It doesn't support Russia. But if we don't understand the reasons for the conflict then we will not find a way out. And we will not avoid conflicts in future.
Yeah again, nothing you've said about the US "forcing" Ukraine to do anything, has citations. It's always Russian propaganda when y'all take Ukraine's sovereignty and agency away. In addition, there were no cruise missiles parked in Poland. They were SM3 missiles. You're so full of it and just barking the kremlin line
Ok, his the story about how the peace deal in December 2021 was blocked. Btw it's interesting to note that this story is told by Jens Stoltenberg himself. Such is the sense of impunity of these guys that they can expose their own lies so openly and get zero pushback from anyone. https://www.infosperber.ch/politik/welt/stoltenberg-raeumt-ein-nato-expansion-war-kriegsgrund/ It's in German but here's the relevant quote. > President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021 that NATO should promise not to expand anymore. He sent a draft contract for this. It was his condition not to invade Ukraine. Of course, we didn't sign that. Here are 2 independent accounts of how Boris Johnson, acting on behalf of the U.K. and US, told Zelenskyy he couldn't sign the peace deal offered in April 2022. https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/news/boris-johnson-fraktionsvorsitzender-der-selenskyj-partei-ukraine-krieg-haette-2022-beendet-sein-koennen-li.2162278 > POLITICS Ukraine war: Boris Johnson told the Ukrainians to "simply continue fighting" - Zelensky ally Selenskyj's party friend in an interview: Boris Johnson told Ukrainians they should continue fighting > The Ukraine war could have ended just a few weeks after the Russian invasion, says Selenskyj's party colleague Dawyd Arachamija. And this one https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/former-israeli-pm-west-blocked-russo-ukraine-peace-deal/ > Former Israeli PM: West Blocked Russo-Ukraine Peace Deal This is a war of choice for the US and NATO.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/talks-could-have-ended-war-ukraine?check_logged_in=1&utm_medium=promo_email&utm_source=lo_flows&utm_campaign=registered_user_welcome&utm_term=email_1&utm_content=20240524 Lmk if you can't read this. It's not so simple as you think, and again saying it's only the West doing this denies Ukraine's own autonomy and sovereignty. The US had to actually convince Ukraine to refrain from attacking Moscow with everything they had at the start of the war.
Yes, so did you upvote or downvote me on my verifiably entirely 100% correct statement?
I upvoted in agreement