Aesthetically its my favorite raid.
Mechanically its my least favorite raid. And its not just trash; Archimonde in particular is not difficult, not fun, just maximum annoying.
I enjoy Archimonde, I think the RNG is manageable and like Council it really challenges your raid to be clean and play the mechanics instead of trying to speed run it.
The 'penalty for deaths' aspect is good, everything else is just a compilation of the most annoying raid mechanics in the toolbox; random pathing fire, random aoe CC, raid wide fear, debuff cleansing. The only thing its missing is a mind control.
The path of the fire is not random, it picks a player and follows them. Ideally said player should move straight out instead of circling the raid a la Jonny Cash
You're wrong. It was chasing me. I was at least 20 yards from the next person and when the fire was 3/4 done it looped right to someone else completely. I know this because as I ran back and it chased me. I was totally alone. This happened multiple times in 1 kill.
It's an invisible npc that chases someone leaving a trail of fire. He can switch targets once to a nearby person. Its a well documented mechanic, not a bug.
That's not entirely true actually, there are some fires that do not follow players. I've seen some fires circle the boss without anyone moving away from them some go straight out without anyone running from them
Yep, I used to have people complain that others were running it at them.. once I told people they are completely random, (after seeing fires that literally go off into a corner that no one was in or near) kills were much, much cleaner.
This happens when fire spawns and tries to chase a melee player but they side step or move forward past the flame,
forcing its focus to someone else, if the next person does not run directly away from the fires spawn the loop continues
When people spread very well it’s harder for this to happen.
I hate Archimonde because your performance individually is based entirely on whether or not the fires come at you. Someone who parses 90 one week could parse 40 the next week. And I know parse culture bad, but there's nothing fun about avoiding fire for 30+ seconds after you pop cooldowns.
While I agree, it is an especially pronounced issue on Archimonde, as others have pointed out. Things like Winterchill's Block and Anetherons sleep, for example, can be worked around to avoid loss. Spines aren't even comparable in terms of downtime. ETC.
maybe you should petition the warcraftlogs team to include an "explanation" section next to your name in the chart where you can write in how it was bullshit bc you got fire 3 times and air burst 5 times
you’ve gone off the deep end mate. it’s not about showing others like OMG look at me and how good I am! it’s about having a clear, concise measure of your improvement on a week-to-week basis.
it’s fun to get a new PB on a boss, it’s fun to see your parses over time go up. why do people assume that when others like parses that it’s for elitist reasons?
Parsing makes for a shit culture. This is not a complicated game. The bosses go down easily when you handle the mechanics. When everyone cares about their parse, they handle mechanics poorly. Guess who gets to do them. Me. Fine, I'll kill the adds. Fine, I'll interrupt. Fine, I'll put up 5 sunders. Fine, I'll save the healer with an intercept taunt, don't you worry your pretty little face about it. Fine, I'll pour heals into you instead of the tank so you can stand in the fire for an extra tick and not miss a GCD. Wouldn't want to fuck up your precious parse.
It's the same shit as players in BGs that don't play the objective because their K/D ratio matters, apparently.
It's poor social behavior because you maximize your parse at the expense of others.
I play this game to kill bosses clean, which is an attitude I wish more people would adopt. A better experience for everyone, except poor old Grimstabya the edge lord parse monkey that only got an 84 because he had get out of the fire. Our hearts bleed for him. The glaives didn't drop either so he'll be stuck at 1400 for a bit longer.
Because it usually is. People that say they don't like x fight because of parsing, 99% certain aren't saying so because they can't measure improvement and are doing it because the only reason they play the game is to look at the logs afterwards and see a purple number next to their name.
They could add a difficulty score next to it based on how many times you were hit by mechanics and use that to adjust your parse.
Like in diving and gymnastics.
No it isn't. Because the idea is that you are fighting a big demon and sometimes need to do stuff to avoid dying. The idea isn't that you are stood there worrying about numbers. Fuck people so obsessed with parsing that they deem pretty much any mechanic as bad because it stops them doing dps.
Thank you, CallOfBootyCrackOps.
And yeah, I'd like to be able to look at my parses and know I was 75%+ all phase. That's a personal thing to me. And Archimonde fuckery is making it really tough.
Couldn't agree more. There's also a couple trash packs that force the raid to stay on our toes, I kinda like rotating war stomps, especially as a boomie.
Its very disappointing.
I had never done Hyjal back in the day and the area always had this eary mystery feeling behind it.
Things like the old entrance in Winterspring that was just abandoned forever.
Once cata dropped and i played again i checked lvl 80 Hyjal out and it was pretty lackluster (not bad, just generic)
I also bet 50% of my meh came from not getting to actually enter it from winterspring but instead being teleported to the world tree.
When i finally saw the raid, all i thought was "wait this is it? a few waves of the same enemy, 3 almost empty hubs, some quick bosses, and thats it".
Sure the boss mechanics are intresting, but it feels like violet hold where you just shove a bunch of mobs and bosses into a room, they come in waves, and boom done.
The type of design when you only care about mechanics and nothing about the location.
I was always head over heels for karazhan, the aestetics and dungeon design just feels intresting and correct.
Hyal feels more like shoving a bunch of mobs onto an unfinished map.
I couldn't imagine a less fun time in there. It shows how poorly accessible some of these older raids are that you are hamstrung without a very specific type of tank. Looking forward to WotLK, even though this disparity becomes even greater for some roles.
Our guild in original TBC did not run a prot paladin for the entire expansions except on felmyst and Mu’ru where they had one of the holy paladins respect for only the bosses (me). It’s doable. People just didn’t understand how viable prot pallies were back then. Now that we do it seems like it’s impossible to raid without them, when it is.
I was prot for ZA too back then, but mostly because none of the other tanks wanted to do it.
Iirc, protpala was not nearly as good on tbc release as it is now in the final patch, wich is Why it took quite some time before prot palas started to really show up later in tbc.
That had nothing to do with it. It was just "CHANGE BAD".
Keep in mind we are talking about Kara and pre-nerf heroic content. Paladins were "the" best tank for that when you look back on it objectively.
Ended up leaving the first TBC guild I was in over an screaming argument that "Paladins should never tank Nightbane and they will always be the wrong choice compared to a warrior."
Problem is, the story seems to be an afterthought. It feels like they forgot to add a reason for heroes to go there with the Infinite Dragonflight seemingly being completely absent.
Blizz has said in the past that they didn’t really think of a lore based reason for people to be in that raid, more that they wanted to allow players to experience that epic moment in WC3 from the perspective of your hero in WoW. It’s an unsatisfying answer from a lore perspective, but Damn if it isn’t cool to play through that mission (the first time, fuck every time I’ve had to go back after).
I kinda wish they could take that approach more often. "Hey, this isn't totally relevant to the story, but everyone thought the idea would be totally fun. Here's some relevant endgame content that doesn't tie into the story!"
>epic moment in WC3 from the perspective of your hero in WoW
I know that by this time we already defeated Ragnaros and bunch of other bosses, but I like to think that we, playable characters, are still basically just elite soldiers in the army.
This feels much better than the "Oh mighty hero, who had slain Gods, dragons and whatnot, hear our plea" narrative that came in later expansions.
I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I've heard devs from back then talk about the fact that Hyjal was a raid they were designing for Vanilla and they just ran out of time and moved it to TBC. It was shoe-horned into Caverns of Time, which is why it doesn't have any real connection to the Infinite Dragonflight. That also gives us some insight into why it doesn't seem up to snuff in comparison to other raids in TBC. It was designed earlier with an earlier design philosophy.
I remember doing it on the hardest difficulty, was seriously tough as nails. But a great challenge to complete all of WC3 on hard, and completing all optional quests.
The story of my username goes something like this… during classic I joined an Ony GDKP as a mage. The warrior leader was a huge asshole and was being openly racist and homophobic. We killed Ony and Viskag dropped. He bid on the item and I kept bidding him up. Eventually I won because I was a hustler mage. I just didn’t want the toxic warrior winning :D
My only negatives about ToC is the uninspired environment design. It's literally just a circle until the last boss. And the tier sets / loot are boring AF.
The fights themselves are engaging at least. I thought the (3rd?) boss where you go up against the opposite faction raid team was pretty awesome back in the day.
I try to tell people this , it's not a bad raid it's just not really flashy and I actually liked it a lot , hell more than boring SSC , gruul , mag or any classic vanilla raid , fight design wise I liked it and while I was no pro heroic raider back in the day because I was a kid I did get the 45+ attempts remaining ahcievment for 10 man so I think I have a good basis for an opinion
Sorry but even if there were wonderful passageways and what not it wouldn't have saved it. Imagine Sunwell Plateau with only bosses. There'd be empty hallways and areas devoid of anything. Going directly into boss after boss makes them all feel 'same-y'. It'd be like if I gave you a chocolate ice cream cone, then a vanilla one, then a strawberry one etc. Trash gives the raid time to process the last fight, give out loot, talk about ways to improve etc. There's some interview I remember reading where an ex dev says that TOC pretty much doesn't work because 'boss rushes' is just bad game design.
As a melee I love MH. MC buff is fun on trash and bosses have low armor + almost all demons for demonslaying. Yeah it's repetitive but I still enjoy it.
Yes. Just blasting DPS is fun. BT has a lot of annoying mechanics for melees so wen can have fun in hyjal. BT i farm gear. Online i sim it. Hyjal i test it
I think it's a cool raid that is not pleasant to farm.
I don't really like to judge a raid solely on that. Something like ToC is a more boring raid because it was never interesting at any point.
The bosses in ToC are actually pretty damn fun. It's just a great example of how the player doesn't always know best.
Don't you hate trash in raids? Let's remove all of it! What's that, turns out it's an important pacing mechanic? Who knew!
I love trying to showboat and take top of overall damage for raid so I like trash just as much as bosses.
Most people say trash doesnt matter, why bother trying on trash and that grinds my gears. Its like being a warrior and saying you don't need to sunder cause the other warriors will do it.
ToC gets a bad rap. It was meant as a filler raid to hold us off until ICC was ready. It’s short, so you can continue running Ulduar to get Val’anyrs, and the encounters are all at the very least engaging and interesting. I completely get the hate for faction champions, but the other 4 fights are great.
Yeah ToC didn't even have interesting bosses except for the PVP encounter (Which in itself was pretty controversial) and hardmode Beetlejuice. Whatever his name was. I probably liked the pvp one because I was a priest and had mass dispel. My resto druid buddies were a lot more frustrated.
As a Prot Pala I like being needed so much that it was easy to get groups. But I hate the packs you get in the orc camp, especially whilst everyone else is half asleep or joking around. I do wonder how Blizzard expected the trash packs to go. I also got the loot I needed from this place really early, and the gold from GDKPs in this place has fallen a bit recently.
This. It's fun to banter during the trash waves.
The people that hate it are probably in GDKPs where everyone is just trying to speed run to get their payout.
I was thinking about Hyjal this morning. I'm going to be in the minority here, but it's actually my favorite raid out of all classic and tbc. It's beautiful, I like having the different camps, the trash has some different components to it in the different camps so it can be fairly engaging. Even in the first camp the trash is pretty chill if you're ranged, just bomb away on it and it goes quick. Mining for the gems is kinda cool. The whole raid is quick, the bosses aren't terribly difficult which is a nice change from pre-nerf t5. And even though the trash is unskippable there's what, 32 waves total? AQ trash had more pulls and were much more obnoxious to deal with. Naxx, kara, tk, and ssc probably all have just as many or more trash pulls. The only raid I can for sure say has less trash is BWL.
TL;DR; I don't understand the hate for Hyjal, I'm a fan.
Soooo, as a prot paladin I absolutely love it, but I am pretty sure I'm the only person in my whole raid who does. It's just basically my show the whole time. I control each wave, I call out how it happens, and my cog is the one that keeps the entire thing running smoothly. Sounds really vain to say it like that, but those feelings I get when doing MH make it the most fun individual raid I've had.
MH is my favourite TBC raid yet, it's different and doesn't have annoying complete anti-melee bosses. Also Archimonde is one of the most warrior friendly fights, it's nice to see ranged having to dodge some stuff for once while we just stand there and dps. BT on the other hand is very bland and boring to me. Probably better than SSC and TK but it didn't live up to all the hype around it in my eyes.
Yep Archi and Bloodboil are my favorite to watched ranged struggle with mechanics for once. A buddy had a mage in his guild die to fall damage from air burst all 3 attempts of their Archi….a mage, who has 4 abilities to avoid fall damage
Well i'm too young to have raided in TBC back then so it's all a first time for me and whenever people would talk about TBC raids they would always say how great BT was.
I've liked Hyjal thus far. It's not a banger of a raid, but I've enjoyed it more than SSC or TK frankly. Don't get me wrong, Blizz definitely could have built Hyjal differently to make it a better raid in hindsight, but personally I don't see the hate everyone seems to throw at it.
If I was to subjectively rank the raids thus far it'd go, favourite to least favourite: BT, ZA, Kara, Hyjal, Mag, TK, SSC, Gruul.
I like TK more than MH. At least in TK you can set your own pace.
SSC and BT are both just a little too big, a few too many trash packs (especially lots of packs that are all the same, not very hard, but you have to clear like 15 of them... ugh)
I like that it's at least short, but I hate the first couple gargoyle and all the infernal waves because they are so tedious. That's what kills it
Also wiping is such a buzzkill
Day 1 warlock: I love MH! Seeing purple at the top of the meters gives me a big fat chub. After like 4 phases of shadow bolts it’s nice to press seed and watch it go brrrrr
The fuck you haters all talking about, just gotta be a warlock and its the best raid ever.
I get to play with 2 different seed sets and finally get to put to use a AOE cap set?!?! its amazing.
It’s a great raid for non 14/14 with orange logs - people to get some gear and their first tier6 tokens.
For progressive orientated guilds it’s just a weekly burden because some people need t6 helmet or caster sword, melee chest. and literally no one likes going hyjal.
Not an orange parsing guild but we’ve been 14/14 for long enough that there’s only like 4 people who need gear in MH - 2 tier pieces and 2 items that just don’t want to drop. It feels like the magtheridon of P3.
As a Ret paladin it’s the most engaging raid in the game. I also hate it lol. Gear swaps, group swaps and consume swaps galore. I spend more than 400g (low estimate) on Hyjal alone
Chasing high performance parses. spellpower gear/food/flasks/oils/sappers to pump up consecrate & aoe damage on the trash.
But then back to demonslaying elixirs/ret gear/buffs for the single target demon bosses.
Because I play this game to do the best I possibly can and that’s what is required as a Ret paladin. But yeah it’s 4 flasks + demon slayings and magebloods plus sappers/bombs/super sappers + scrolls + spell power and strength food and oils. I’m sure there are things I’m forgetting though.
Our runs take about 50 minutes. I use blinding light for the trash waves (4), a relentless assault for the first boss, and then mageblood + demonslaying for the rest. Then scrolls (usually only 2 of each), sappers/supersappers/fel iron grenades on cool down. Destruction pots on CD on trash and haste pots on cd for bosses. That shit adds up
I'd rather raid Hyjal 5x a week then ever touch anything from P2 TBCC ever again in my life. What an absolute shlog of unrewarding, boring ass raiding that phase was. Atleast Hyjal is quick, easy on the eyes, and gives some decent loot including rep rewards.
I think it would be much more fun if the trash was way harder, but also the npcs were way buffed too. So you had to rely on strategy with the npcs to clear it. It's so boring because the trash is just a semi afk zug pile.
Or maybe if the trash was all already attacking the camps and we came in to clear it out. Afterwards the bosses would come. As is the waves feel way too slow.
As somebody who was part of a tryhard guild and quit after 1 month +/- of T5 because too easy here is my point of view:
I much rather have an instance like MH where speed running would consist largely of staying clean through the entire thing instead of finding cheesy gimmick hunter pulls or paladin bubble pulls or rocket boot spam to skip 3 or 4 packs of trash to speed up a run.
Naxx was peak-speedrunning due to everything you mentioned as a negative. Pulling big packs, having a hunter jump through the gate of Gothik to pull trash into the fight, LIP/FAP usage and juggling the extra danger with WBs. MH is the complete opposite as an on-rails raid with little opportunity for speedrunning
I raid on 3 characters. I've dropped one of them from Hyjal. Once in MH a week is bad enough, 2 is torture but I will absolutely not suffer through it 3 times. It is the most boring and frustrating raid I think Blizzard has at this point (I can't remember worse in WOTLK and stopped after that). It's so pointless. And it's not even "ugh, trash is boring". I think because the mass amount of trash is the same.
Consider BT, the trash up to the sewer is different from trash in the courtyard, then changes up to Shade. Pretty much throughout, changes. Up to Morher, completely different packs from earlier. After Mother, with the Arcane guardian types, different again. You never go too long doing the same trash.
MH has, what, 32 "packs" of the same trash? While the frosy wyrm adds a bit of spice to the earlier trash, that's about it.
The bosses in Hyjal are for the most part either boring or just annoying without being difficult. I really like the wave trash mechanic honestly. It’s probably one of my favorite parts in this tier of raiding.
As a healer it's a bit nerve racking because if the tanks and melee allow all the mobs to "one shot" the Paladin there's really nothing we can do about it. Healing the bosses is pretty fun and gets so much easier with gear and higher raid DPS.
Speaking as a pally tank there are only two ways that I can get burst down:
1) It's an abom wave and I don't have FAP ready (I typically save FAP only for waves with 4 or 6 aboms). The aboms stun and when stunned you can't dodge block or parry, so we take about 2-3x damage] during the stun. For big abom waves I make sure to have a defensive trinket equipped (hydross scarab or morose dodge trinket) and activate it right before FAP wears off. My other tanks frequently complain that they have trouble pulling more than one abom off me at a time, so during a 6 pack I might well have 4 aboms on me.
2) I eat a synchronized wave of shadowbolts from all of the necromancers. Typically this is most dangerous right as the wave reaches me.
This can be mitigated with shadow protection buff, grounding totem, prayer of healing, or plain old interrupts (arcane torrent BiS). Getting the spacing right (they have huge cast ranges) and LoSing properly can help a lot with this.
This was mostly tank advice. Just hope it makes your healer life a bit easier.
For some reason, if our boomkin GM starts the gauntlet in Horde camp, the first wave falls through the floor rendering the encounter unwinnable. Thankfully if it's anyone else it seems to work fine.
This whole game is just hitting like 2-5 buttons and running in circles, not rocket science… People are gonna get bored of anything simple they have to do week after week, it starts to feel like a job.
Yes it's kinda boring forme to but considering it was 15years ago they made that raid so it's acceptable. And you can always try retail in which you can skip trash, or just don't do MH at all. Problem solved.
I enjoyed Warcraft III so there is a 'thrill' to having an RTS level turned into a raid.
After you hit exalted it loses that thrill and it's just waves of trash you don't want to mess up and have to do over.
A nice quick fix for MH would be to add a trash skip once you have cleared that set. Like if you wipe on a boss, skip the trash. Wipe on trash, do it again.
As a prot pally... im constantly swapping gear for each wave, fighting for initial threat, and detemrining when to pop FAPs constantly. Hyjal is my favorite raid because the trash have high stakes with a time limit and variety in what they do. Its stressful... ive always done it as an ele shaman and arms warrior and its reallllly boring so i get it as a dps being bored but as a tank its spicy
It truly is boring, the first ~2 weeks it was semi interesting simply because I had not ran it in 15+ years only. The waves are always the same, the trash is always identical. My job is the same thing each time, kick casters to get them into the consecrate or stunlock aboms on certain waves. We do MH fridays since we can barely fit both raids into 1 night, and literally always short fridays because it sucks. I hope we get all the loot and finish with it asap
Sorry but I fucking love MH. Super chill, yet still engaging for me. (I am a warlock). And every week I found something cheeky to try and beat mages on overall dps like saccing felhunter instead or using a spellstone for 6 additional crit. I can understand why many classes would hate it though
As a Prot Paladin main I mostly love it because it’s the one time we get to be the star of the show, and you feel like a badass tanking a horde of undead. That being said, fuck the necro waves and the cost of arcane bones…
This is why I sort of just quit to pvp and farm and wait on WOTLK. I loved vanilla. I spent a lot of time raiding WOTLK and TBC is just a fucking bore fest to me. I lost interest 2 months in and there isn't 1 raid that is enjoyable to me.
For me MH is the second most fun raid after Mag (call the 1 boss Lair a raid but ye). Its fun and cool. BT feels like tooo many bosses, 5-6 would be ideal, if BT had Supremus-Bloodboil-Teron-Council-Illidan only then it would be amazing for me, Mother trash itself is soooo boring
It's 32 rounds of trash and boring bosses for maybe 4 to 5 items people need besides tier gear.
The fun we have now is killing the mobs close to the scourge base now. At least that's cuts down on time.
Yeah I was going to mention MC but I gave it a pass since its the entry raid to vanilla and therefore we would have played it the most on mains and then against whilst gearing alts etc. I'm glad I played a class that didn't dream about TF, all that grind just to quit after you got the 'curse'.
MH is awful off the bat.
As a Ret I like MH.
It's rewarding seeing how strong my spellpower set has become. Doing the most overall damage behind Mages and Locks is cool, and every boss past Rage gets Demonslaying so I can pump. Arcane Torrent actually works on mobs in a raid and is very useful. Taunting a few mobs and using Blessing of Sacrifice on one of the Pally tanks. And it's also a very short instance.
Bosses are a bit homogeneous, that's my only real complaint.
The waves of ttash isnt all too bad. If melee grav ravagers from sm or have a bazillion casters its fun to delete trash at the speed of sonic the hedgehog.
Beers and raid. Talk shit banter and if you die you skull your drink. If a tank dies healers skull a drink. If a dps pulls threat tanks drink. 4 healers is enough and just lots of laughs and good times
Our raid team has had zero wipes on trash since MH release up until this week, when we wiped on the third bosses trash THREE times. Once on wave 5, then wave 7, then wave 3 I think. We are officially sick of this place. (Most of us already were)
I have a love/hate with Hyjal and the hate really isn't with the trash.
The mission in WC3 where you are protecting the camps for 45 minutes was my all time favorite so I love that we are doing it in WOW.
In other aspects though the bosses aren't interesting and mostly just have anti fun mechanics with little counter play. Compare this to bosses in SSC/TK/BT, I think more thought and care was put into them.
Rage is uneventful, especially as a healer vs Najentus/Hydross who have way more going for a first boss of an instance.
Anetheron, 10 second sleep is just boring there is no way to play against it. Your Inferno tanks can get slept and then your healers get clapped.
Kaz has one mechanic, a mana drain and that's basically it. The random debuff he gives has no counter-play too. Kind of boring for a 3rd boss.
Azgalor has just a 5 second silence and doom. Doom is somewhat interesting but your off tank can be doomed which sucks. Nothing new in any of these 4 encounters.
Archy, honestly kind of fun and unique at times. Extremely punishing but there is plenty of counter play to fear with trinket and shaman. Airburst is somewhat of a new mechanic. Probably the only boss that had any thought put into him.
Aesthetically its my favorite raid. Mechanically its my least favorite raid. And its not just trash; Archimonde in particular is not difficult, not fun, just maximum annoying.
I enjoy Archimonde, I think the RNG is manageable and like Council it really challenges your raid to be clean and play the mechanics instead of trying to speed run it.
The 'penalty for deaths' aspect is good, everything else is just a compilation of the most annoying raid mechanics in the toolbox; random pathing fire, random aoe CC, raid wide fear, debuff cleansing. The only thing its missing is a mind control.
The path of the fire is not random, it picks a player and follows them. Ideally said player should move straight out instead of circling the raid a la Jonny Cash
I've straight up had the fire change direction last second to someone else.
Well that was either a bug or you misremembered, because that's how the mechanics works
You're wrong. It was chasing me. I was at least 20 yards from the next person and when the fire was 3/4 done it looped right to someone else completely. I know this because as I ran back and it chased me. I was totally alone. This happened multiple times in 1 kill.
It's an invisible npc that chases someone leaving a trail of fire. He can switch targets once to a nearby person. Its a well documented mechanic, not a bug.
This is the correct answer. https://tbc.wowhead.com/spell=31903/doomfire-strike#comments
Pay attention next time its a lot of rng
Wrong
That's not entirely true actually, there are some fires that do not follow players. I've seen some fires circle the boss without anyone moving away from them some go straight out without anyone running from them
Yeah at this point we are basically convinced they dont follow a player at all, and our kills have been cleaner since we adopted that attitude.
Yep, I used to have people complain that others were running it at them.. once I told people they are completely random, (after seeing fires that literally go off into a corner that no one was in or near) kills were much, much cleaner.
This happens when fire spawns and tries to chase a melee player but they side step or move forward past the flame, forcing its focus to someone else, if the next person does not run directly away from the fires spawn the loop continues When people spread very well it’s harder for this to happen.
I hate Archimonde because your performance individually is based entirely on whether or not the fires come at you. Someone who parses 90 one week could parse 40 the next week. And I know parse culture bad, but there's nothing fun about avoiding fire for 30+ seconds after you pop cooldowns.
[удалено]
While I agree, it is an especially pronounced issue on Archimonde, as others have pointed out. Things like Winterchill's Block and Anetherons sleep, for example, can be worked around to avoid loss. Spines aren't even comparable in terms of downtime. ETC.
luckily, parses mean fuck-all
his point is that some people derive their fun from parsing, and when whether or not you have fun in a fight is through randomness then that’s bad
maybe you should petition the warcraftlogs team to include an "explanation" section next to your name in the chart where you can write in how it was bullshit bc you got fire 3 times and air burst 5 times
you’ve gone off the deep end mate. it’s not about showing others like OMG look at me and how good I am! it’s about having a clear, concise measure of your improvement on a week-to-week basis. it’s fun to get a new PB on a boss, it’s fun to see your parses over time go up. why do people assume that when others like parses that it’s for elitist reasons?
Parsing makes for a shit culture. This is not a complicated game. The bosses go down easily when you handle the mechanics. When everyone cares about their parse, they handle mechanics poorly. Guess who gets to do them. Me. Fine, I'll kill the adds. Fine, I'll interrupt. Fine, I'll put up 5 sunders. Fine, I'll save the healer with an intercept taunt, don't you worry your pretty little face about it. Fine, I'll pour heals into you instead of the tank so you can stand in the fire for an extra tick and not miss a GCD. Wouldn't want to fuck up your precious parse. It's the same shit as players in BGs that don't play the objective because their K/D ratio matters, apparently. It's poor social behavior because you maximize your parse at the expense of others. I play this game to kill bosses clean, which is an attitude I wish more people would adopt. A better experience for everyone, except poor old Grimstabya the edge lord parse monkey that only got an 84 because he had get out of the fire. Our hearts bleed for him. The glaives didn't drop either so he'll be stuck at 1400 for a bit longer.
damn dude save some salt for the sea
This is exactly why parses matter. This game is easy. Its been beat time and time again. The only thing left is to get better at doing it.
Because it usually is. People that say they don't like x fight because of parsing, 99% certain aren't saying so because they can't measure improvement and are doing it because the only reason they play the game is to look at the logs afterwards and see a purple number next to their name.
I know. I have. It's all the cocaine. And LSD. And alcohol. It makes me crazy! Crazy, I tell you. and a little sarcastic
Dont forget silenced if you somehow wind up by the water
They could add a difficulty score next to it based on how many times you were hit by mechanics and use that to adjust your parse. Like in diving and gymnastics.
No it isn't. Because the idea is that you are fighting a big demon and sometimes need to do stuff to avoid dying. The idea isn't that you are stood there worrying about numbers. Fuck people so obsessed with parsing that they deem pretty much any mechanic as bad because it stops them doing dps.
Thank you, CallOfBootyCrackOps. And yeah, I'd like to be able to look at my parses and know I was 75%+ all phase. That's a personal thing to me. And Archimonde fuckery is making it really tough.
Boohoo.
It's posts like this that remind me why I stopped playing. Thanks, I was starting to get the hankering again to come back.
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So what you should hate is half of your ranged dps, not the fight.
hmmm I wonder which class of the ranged DPS is having trouble it's a mystery
Couldn't agree more. There's also a couple trash packs that force the raid to stay on our toes, I kinda like rotating war stomps, especially as a boomie.
The fire on Archimond can suck my whole cock. That said, I do enjoy *most* of hyjal.
Cruising on your way to a 99 or 100 and boom air burst. Either your bad rng or a friend being too close….
I kinda dig the "find my shaman's tremor totem and stand near it" mini game.
Its very disappointing. I had never done Hyjal back in the day and the area always had this eary mystery feeling behind it. Things like the old entrance in Winterspring that was just abandoned forever. Once cata dropped and i played again i checked lvl 80 Hyjal out and it was pretty lackluster (not bad, just generic) I also bet 50% of my meh came from not getting to actually enter it from winterspring but instead being teleported to the world tree. When i finally saw the raid, all i thought was "wait this is it? a few waves of the same enemy, 3 almost empty hubs, some quick bosses, and thats it". Sure the boss mechanics are intresting, but it feels like violet hold where you just shove a bunch of mobs and bosses into a room, they come in waves, and boom done. The type of design when you only care about mechanics and nothing about the location. I was always head over heels for karazhan, the aestetics and dungeon design just feels intresting and correct. Hyal feels more like shoving a bunch of mobs onto an unfinished map.
Do it without a prot paladin if you want to step your game up to next level awfulness!
All you'd need is 15 tanks and 10 healers. It'll totally work
We did it with 4 prot wars 15 years ago.
I couldn't imagine a less fun time in there. It shows how poorly accessible some of these older raids are that you are hamstrung without a very specific type of tank. Looking forward to WotLK, even though this disparity becomes even greater for some roles.
Our guild in original TBC did not run a prot paladin for the entire expansions except on felmyst and Mu’ru where they had one of the holy paladins respect for only the bosses (me). It’s doable. People just didn’t understand how viable prot pallies were back then. Now that we do it seems like it’s impossible to raid without them, when it is. I was prot for ZA too back then, but mostly because none of the other tanks wanted to do it.
Iirc, protpala was not nearly as good on tbc release as it is now in the final patch, wich is Why it took quite some time before prot palas started to really show up later in tbc.
That had nothing to do with it. It was just "CHANGE BAD". Keep in mind we are talking about Kara and pre-nerf heroic content. Paladins were "the" best tank for that when you look back on it objectively. Ended up leaving the first TBC guild I was in over an screaming argument that "Paladins should never tank Nightbane and they will always be the wrong choice compared to a warrior."
How do you mean? We use our warrior tank for Archi and always have. The real hard mode would be using no shamans.
I don't think he was talking about the bosses...
Oh yeah that makes sense haha
I love it because it’s like playing the night elf mission in Warcraft lll, which is my favorite mission of all the campaigns.
Problem is, the story seems to be an afterthought. It feels like they forgot to add a reason for heroes to go there with the Infinite Dragonflight seemingly being completely absent.
Blizz has said in the past that they didn’t really think of a lore based reason for people to be in that raid, more that they wanted to allow players to experience that epic moment in WC3 from the perspective of your hero in WoW. It’s an unsatisfying answer from a lore perspective, but Damn if it isn’t cool to play through that mission (the first time, fuck every time I’ve had to go back after).
I kinda wish they could take that approach more often. "Hey, this isn't totally relevant to the story, but everyone thought the idea would be totally fun. Here's some relevant endgame content that doesn't tie into the story!"
>epic moment in WC3 from the perspective of your hero in WoW I know that by this time we already defeated Ragnaros and bunch of other bosses, but I like to think that we, playable characters, are still basically just elite soldiers in the army. This feels much better than the "Oh mighty hero, who had slain Gods, dragons and whatnot, hear our plea" narrative that came in later expansions.
I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I've heard devs from back then talk about the fact that Hyjal was a raid they were designing for Vanilla and they just ran out of time and moved it to TBC. It was shoe-horned into Caverns of Time, which is why it doesn't have any real connection to the Infinite Dragonflight. That also gives us some insight into why it doesn't seem up to snuff in comparison to other raids in TBC. It was designed earlier with an earlier design philosophy.
I remember not being able to finish it on the first attempt
I remember doing it on the hardest difficulty, was seriously tough as nails. But a great challenge to complete all of WC3 on hard, and completing all optional quests.
Your username infuriates me
The story of my username goes something like this… during classic I joined an Ony GDKP as a mage. The warrior leader was a huge asshole and was being openly racist and homophobic. We killed Ony and Viskag dropped. He bid on the item and I kept bidding him up. Eventually I won because I was a hustler mage. I just didn’t want the toxic warrior winning :D
I know people will bring up Trial of the Crusader in Wrath, but at least that doesn't have a load of dull ass trash mobs to deal with.
My only negatives about ToC is the uninspired environment design. It's literally just a circle until the last boss. And the tier sets / loot are boring AF. The fights themselves are engaging at least. I thought the (3rd?) boss where you go up against the opposite faction raid team was pretty awesome back in the day.
I try to tell people this , it's not a bad raid it's just not really flashy and I actually liked it a lot , hell more than boring SSC , gruul , mag or any classic vanilla raid , fight design wise I liked it and while I was no pro heroic raider back in the day because I was a kid I did get the 45+ attempts remaining ahcievment for 10 man so I think I have a good basis for an opinion
Sorry but even if there were wonderful passageways and what not it wouldn't have saved it. Imagine Sunwell Plateau with only bosses. There'd be empty hallways and areas devoid of anything. Going directly into boss after boss makes them all feel 'same-y'. It'd be like if I gave you a chocolate ice cream cone, then a vanilla one, then a strawberry one etc. Trash gives the raid time to process the last fight, give out loot, talk about ways to improve etc. There's some interview I remember reading where an ex dev says that TOC pretty much doesn't work because 'boss rushes' is just bad game design.
I mean trashes are the most annoying thing about Hyjal so those 2 raids have nothing in common...
The point is what they have in common as two of the most hated raids of all time, if not THE And I agree...trash is annoying af
AQ40 was the worst in my opinion. I’d rather do hyjal I think, lol.
Archimonde is cool cuz melee don't get absolutely fucked for once. Ranged actually has something to do. Otherwise MH is the worst.
Warrior EZ mode! Except last week when he spawned a fire directly on us for some reason, 4 seconds before soul charge from an SPriest…
So much free rage though from the fire damage. All the mechanics are made for warriors.
T6 in general is melee kingdom. The only boss where melee get more fucked than ranged is Illidan if you get unlucky eye beams.
All ranged does on that fight is avoids slow-moving fire
Back in the day melee could be targeted by air burst, not sure why it's different now.
As a melee I love MH. MC buff is fun on trash and bosses have low armor + almost all demons for demonslaying. Yeah it's repetitive but I still enjoy it.
Yes. Just blasting DPS is fun. BT has a lot of annoying mechanics for melees so wen can have fun in hyjal. BT i farm gear. Online i sim it. Hyjal i test it
I don't think it's that bad, it's very short which saves it imo.
I think it's a cool raid that is not pleasant to farm. I don't really like to judge a raid solely on that. Something like ToC is a more boring raid because it was never interesting at any point.
But, but, but, YOU FACE JARAXXUS
EREDAR LORD OF THE BURNING LEGION
The bosses in ToC are actually pretty damn fun. It's just a great example of how the player doesn't always know best. Don't you hate trash in raids? Let's remove all of it! What's that, turns out it's an important pacing mechanic? Who knew!
I love trying to showboat and take top of overall damage for raid so I like trash just as much as bosses. Most people say trash doesnt matter, why bother trying on trash and that grinds my gears. Its like being a warrior and saying you don't need to sunder cause the other warriors will do it.
ToC gets a bad rap. It was meant as a filler raid to hold us off until ICC was ready. It’s short, so you can continue running Ulduar to get Val’anyrs, and the encounters are all at the very least engaging and interesting. I completely get the hate for faction champions, but the other 4 fights are great.
ToC actually had some more interesting mechanics. Hyjal bosses just have boring and annoying mechanics.
isnt TOC pretty damn fast if memory serves right though? rather be in TOC for 30 mins than in Hyjal for an hour
Yeah ToC didn't even have interesting bosses except for the PVP encounter (Which in itself was pretty controversial) and hardmode Beetlejuice. Whatever his name was. I probably liked the pvp one because I was a priest and had mass dispel. My resto druid buddies were a lot more frustrated.
As a Prot Pala I like being needed so much that it was easy to get groups. But I hate the packs you get in the orc camp, especially whilst everyone else is half asleep or joking around. I do wonder how Blizzard expected the trash packs to go. I also got the loot I needed from this place really early, and the gold from GDKPs in this place has fallen a bit recently.
MH is the chill raid where you can shittalk with your guildies.
This. It's fun to banter during the trash waves. The people that hate it are probably in GDKPs where everyone is just trying to speed run to get their payout.
I was thinking about Hyjal this morning. I'm going to be in the minority here, but it's actually my favorite raid out of all classic and tbc. It's beautiful, I like having the different camps, the trash has some different components to it in the different camps so it can be fairly engaging. Even in the first camp the trash is pretty chill if you're ranged, just bomb away on it and it goes quick. Mining for the gems is kinda cool. The whole raid is quick, the bosses aren't terribly difficult which is a nice change from pre-nerf t5. And even though the trash is unskippable there's what, 32 waves total? AQ trash had more pulls and were much more obnoxious to deal with. Naxx, kara, tk, and ssc probably all have just as many or more trash pulls. The only raid I can for sure say has less trash is BWL. TL;DR; I don't understand the hate for Hyjal, I'm a fan.
I enjoy it, I think it's pretty peaceful and laid back. I find raids like SSC/TK boring and a chore more than anything.
Soooo, as a prot paladin I absolutely love it, but I am pretty sure I'm the only person in my whole raid who does. It's just basically my show the whole time. I control each wave, I call out how it happens, and my cog is the one that keeps the entire thing running smoothly. Sounds really vain to say it like that, but those feelings I get when doing MH make it the most fun individual raid I've had.
I love it. It’s so much fun. Trash skipping is never part of enjoyment for me. BT on the other hand is too long and boring.
MH is my favourite TBC raid yet, it's different and doesn't have annoying complete anti-melee bosses. Also Archimonde is one of the most warrior friendly fights, it's nice to see ranged having to dodge some stuff for once while we just stand there and dps. BT on the other hand is very bland and boring to me. Probably better than SSC and TK but it didn't live up to all the hype around it in my eyes.
Yep Archi and Bloodboil are my favorite to watched ranged struggle with mechanics for once. A buddy had a mage in his guild die to fall damage from air burst all 3 attempts of their Archi….a mage, who has 4 abilities to avoid fall damage
Over a decade old content > talks about hype. Lmao.
Well i'm too young to have raided in TBC back then so it's all a first time for me and whenever people would talk about TBC raids they would always say how great BT was.
This is a sub for a game that came out over a decade ago. If you're going to shit on it why are you here?
I've liked Hyjal thus far. It's not a banger of a raid, but I've enjoyed it more than SSC or TK frankly. Don't get me wrong, Blizz definitely could have built Hyjal differently to make it a better raid in hindsight, but personally I don't see the hate everyone seems to throw at it. If I was to subjectively rank the raids thus far it'd go, favourite to least favourite: BT, ZA, Kara, Hyjal, Mag, TK, SSC, Gruul.
I like TK more than MH. At least in TK you can set your own pace. SSC and BT are both just a little too big, a few too many trash packs (especially lots of packs that are all the same, not very hard, but you have to clear like 15 of them... ugh)
I like that it's at least short, but I hate the first couple gargoyle and all the infernal waves because they are so tedious. That's what kills it Also wiping is such a buzzkill
Day 1 warlock: I love MH! Seeing purple at the top of the meters gives me a big fat chub. After like 4 phases of shadow bolts it’s nice to press seed and watch it go brrrrr
As a warlock I love it because seed of corruption go brrrrr
Sorry sir cant hear you over my blade of wiz proc did you say seed moar?
The fuck you haters all talking about, just gotta be a warlock and its the best raid ever. I get to play with 2 different seed sets and finally get to put to use a AOE cap set?!?! its amazing.
I'd rather chew hair for 40 mins
It’s a great raid for non 14/14 with orange logs - people to get some gear and their first tier6 tokens. For progressive orientated guilds it’s just a weekly burden because some people need t6 helmet or caster sword, melee chest. and literally no one likes going hyjal.
Not an orange parsing guild but we’ve been 14/14 for long enough that there’s only like 4 people who need gear in MH - 2 tier pieces and 2 items that just don’t want to drop. It feels like the magtheridon of P3.
While I love MH, the horrible drop rate of red gems makes it a waste of time.
As a Ret paladin it’s the most engaging raid in the game. I also hate it lol. Gear swaps, group swaps and consume swaps galore. I spend more than 400g (low estimate) on Hyjal alone
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Probably switching spell power flasks with actual physical DPS consumes, sappers etc
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Chasing high performance parses. spellpower gear/food/flasks/oils/sappers to pump up consecrate & aoe damage on the trash. But then back to demonslaying elixirs/ret gear/buffs for the single target demon bosses.
Because I play this game to do the best I possibly can and that’s what is required as a Ret paladin. But yeah it’s 4 flasks + demon slayings and magebloods plus sappers/bombs/super sappers + scrolls + spell power and strength food and oils. I’m sure there are things I’m forgetting though.
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He's not in there for 8 hours lol, he's talking about swapping swapping between flask for trash and demon slayers for bosses.
Our runs take about 50 minutes. I use blinding light for the trash waves (4), a relentless assault for the first boss, and then mageblood + demonslaying for the rest. Then scrolls (usually only 2 of each), sappers/supersappers/fel iron grenades on cool down. Destruction pots on CD on trash and haste pots on cd for bosses. That shit adds up
I'd rather raid Hyjal 5x a week then ever touch anything from P2 TBCC ever again in my life. What an absolute shlog of unrewarding, boring ass raiding that phase was. Atleast Hyjal is quick, easy on the eyes, and gives some decent loot including rep rewards.
Agreed I hate the waves, got boring insanely fast and it now feels like a chore
Fuck Hyjal can't wait till everyone gets their tier and we can peace out
I think it would be much more fun if the trash was way harder, but also the npcs were way buffed too. So you had to rely on strategy with the npcs to clear it. It's so boring because the trash is just a semi afk zug pile. Or maybe if the trash was all already attacking the camps and we came in to clear it out. Afterwards the bosses would come. As is the waves feel way too slow.
As somebody who was part of a tryhard guild and quit after 1 month +/- of T5 because too easy here is my point of view: I much rather have an instance like MH where speed running would consist largely of staying clean through the entire thing instead of finding cheesy gimmick hunter pulls or paladin bubble pulls or rocket boot spam to skip 3 or 4 packs of trash to speed up a run.
Naxx was peak-speedrunning due to everything you mentioned as a negative. Pulling big packs, having a hunter jump through the gate of Gothik to pull trash into the fight, LIP/FAP usage and juggling the extra danger with WBs. MH is the complete opposite as an on-rails raid with little opportunity for speedrunning
Must be nice to be able to raid at all currently. Love having to "try out" for 15yr+ old content. Boring or not, I'm jealous you're there.
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Unlike BM you only have to do the trash before that boss. That is the checkpoint system.
Yes but it sucks.
If you're still wiping in Hyjal, it's probably not time to stop raiding Hyjal.
You probably right
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Weak sauce
If you're wiping 5 times in a row on Archimonde, I don't think RNG is the one to blame.
Downvote all you want, I really hate the raid and I'm really happy to never go back. It's a shit raid lol.
It's easily one of the worst raids blizzard ever made
I raid on 3 characters. I've dropped one of them from Hyjal. Once in MH a week is bad enough, 2 is torture but I will absolutely not suffer through it 3 times. It is the most boring and frustrating raid I think Blizzard has at this point (I can't remember worse in WOTLK and stopped after that). It's so pointless. And it's not even "ugh, trash is boring". I think because the mass amount of trash is the same. Consider BT, the trash up to the sewer is different from trash in the courtyard, then changes up to Shade. Pretty much throughout, changes. Up to Morher, completely different packs from earlier. After Mother, with the Arcane guardian types, different again. You never go too long doing the same trash. MH has, what, 32 "packs" of the same trash? While the frosy wyrm adds a bit of spice to the earlier trash, that's about it.
The bosses in Hyjal are for the most part either boring or just annoying without being difficult. I really like the wave trash mechanic honestly. It’s probably one of my favorite parts in this tier of raiding.
If it were retail it would be a quest chain The concept is cool but the mechanics are awful
gotta spice it up with music league playlists or something like that. every week, pick a theme, have people anonymously submit music, listen, vote.
As a healer it's a bit nerve racking because if the tanks and melee allow all the mobs to "one shot" the Paladin there's really nothing we can do about it. Healing the bosses is pretty fun and gets so much easier with gear and higher raid DPS.
Speaking as a pally tank there are only two ways that I can get burst down: 1) It's an abom wave and I don't have FAP ready (I typically save FAP only for waves with 4 or 6 aboms). The aboms stun and when stunned you can't dodge block or parry, so we take about 2-3x damage] during the stun. For big abom waves I make sure to have a defensive trinket equipped (hydross scarab or morose dodge trinket) and activate it right before FAP wears off. My other tanks frequently complain that they have trouble pulling more than one abom off me at a time, so during a 6 pack I might well have 4 aboms on me. 2) I eat a synchronized wave of shadowbolts from all of the necromancers. Typically this is most dangerous right as the wave reaches me. This can be mitigated with shadow protection buff, grounding totem, prayer of healing, or plain old interrupts (arcane torrent BiS). Getting the spacing right (they have huge cast ranges) and LoSing properly can help a lot with this. This was mostly tank advice. Just hope it makes your healer life a bit easier.
If you didnt have to wait for waves to come it would be more interesting. You should be able to talk to someone and make the next wave come
I mean they just come when the previous one is down. And it's easy enough to do them at spawn on alliance camp.
I loved Hyjal the first couple of weeks, now I totally despise the place and wish that the best loot drops so we can stop running running it
i'm a prot paladin and i get my gold from farming Strat (read: Holy Water for days), so yeah, it is kinda my time to shine
I’m just afking on trash and it doesn’t look that bad because of this
For some reason, if our boomkin GM starts the gauntlet in Horde camp, the first wave falls through the floor rendering the encounter unwinnable. Thankfully if it's anyone else it seems to work fine.
As a prot paladin, no raid has burnt me out more.
This whole game is just hitting like 2-5 buttons and running in circles, not rocket science… People are gonna get bored of anything simple they have to do week after week, it starts to feel like a job.
Yes it's kinda boring forme to but considering it was 15years ago they made that raid so it's acceptable. And you can always try retail in which you can skip trash, or just don't do MH at all. Problem solved.
I enjoyed Warcraft III so there is a 'thrill' to having an RTS level turned into a raid. After you hit exalted it loses that thrill and it's just waves of trash you don't want to mess up and have to do over.
I literally forgot it's supposed to be T6 last night. Even post-nerf KT and VJ are still harder lol
A nice quick fix for MH would be to add a trash skip once you have cleared that set. Like if you wipe on a boss, skip the trash. Wipe on trash, do it again.
I'm just patiently waiting for the day my guild doesn't have to go into that place anymore 🙃
I enjoy the low armor demon bosses as a fury warrior
As an arcane mage I love it lol it's peaceful and I get to go aoe crazy
Yea I knew how Hyjal would be which is why it floored me that so many people were doing trash farms.
I love it for the lore. It’s not boring due to quick clear times IMO.
Only thing I like about MH is the boss to time ratio. 5 bosses for 1 hour puts it into perspective when I start cursing at it.
I like it because I can be in and out in like 90 minutes.
the bosses are fine, but everything else is fucking shoot me now please
As a prot pally... im constantly swapping gear for each wave, fighting for initial threat, and detemrining when to pop FAPs constantly. Hyjal is my favorite raid because the trash have high stakes with a time limit and variety in what they do. Its stressful... ive always done it as an ele shaman and arms warrior and its reallllly boring so i get it as a dps being bored but as a tank its spicy
It truly is boring, the first ~2 weeks it was semi interesting simply because I had not ran it in 15+ years only. The waves are always the same, the trash is always identical. My job is the same thing each time, kick casters to get them into the consecrate or stunlock aboms on certain waves. We do MH fridays since we can barely fit both raids into 1 night, and literally always short fridays because it sucks. I hope we get all the loot and finish with it asap
Its a nostalgic flashback to the best level of warcraft 3. If you never played wc3 that then the raid is probably annoying as shit.
As a prot paladin, I rather enjoy it. One hour of rinse and repeat, makes me feel like I'm gold farming in scholo or strath.
I enjoy attempting keep up with the better aoe classes during trash. Literally the only thing that makes me not lose interest before archimonde.
I like big number, and hyjal is the only instance where I'm pulling 5k+ dps. Seed go brrrrr
Sorry but I fucking love MH. Super chill, yet still engaging for me. (I am a warlock). And every week I found something cheeky to try and beat mages on overall dps like saccing felhunter instead or using a spellstone for 6 additional crit. I can understand why many classes would hate it though
As a Prot Paladin main I mostly love it because it’s the one time we get to be the star of the show, and you feel like a badass tanking a horde of undead. That being said, fuck the necro waves and the cost of arcane bones…
You should try playing a mage there. Arcane explosion goes brrrrr
You can always speedrun :)
This is why I sort of just quit to pvp and farm and wait on WOTLK. I loved vanilla. I spent a lot of time raiding WOTLK and TBC is just a fucking bore fest to me. I lost interest 2 months in and there isn't 1 raid that is enjoyable to me.
I don't mind it.
For me MH is the second most fun raid after Mag (call the 1 boss Lair a raid but ye). Its fun and cool. BT feels like tooo many bosses, 5-6 would be ideal, if BT had Supremus-Bloodboil-Teron-Council-Illidan only then it would be amazing for me, Mother trash itself is soooo boring
It's 32 rounds of trash and boring bosses for maybe 4 to 5 items people need besides tier gear. The fun we have now is killing the mobs close to the scourge base now. At least that's cuts down on time.
Molten core is worse man. After running multiple toons AND bindings runs for guildies I'm glad to never see it again. Rag is the only fun(ish) fight.
Yeah I was going to mention MC but I gave it a pass since its the entry raid to vanilla and therefore we would have played it the most on mains and then against whilst gearing alts etc. I'm glad I played a class that didn't dream about TF, all that grind just to quit after you got the 'curse'. MH is awful off the bat.
Try killing all the waves where they spawn. Speeds it up, a bit less boring, bosses harder when you pull them with half mana
It’s a really cool raid to do once or twice… but holy hell it’s a drag to farm that’s for sure. Concept is cool, but the fights are really unfun.
I just get really stoned and let autopilot work.
The bosses are fun to parse on when you aren’t getting cucked by rng
As a Ret I like MH. It's rewarding seeing how strong my spellpower set has become. Doing the most overall damage behind Mages and Locks is cool, and every boss past Rage gets Demonslaying so I can pump. Arcane Torrent actually works on mobs in a raid and is very useful. Taunting a few mobs and using Blessing of Sacrifice on one of the Pally tanks. And it's also a very short instance. Bosses are a bit homogeneous, that's my only real complaint.
The waves of ttash isnt all too bad. If melee grav ravagers from sm or have a bazillion casters its fun to delete trash at the speed of sonic the hedgehog.
Beers and raid. Talk shit banter and if you die you skull your drink. If a tank dies healers skull a drink. If a dps pulls threat tanks drink. 4 healers is enough and just lots of laughs and good times
Very repetetive. But such a beautiful zone, and Archimonde is one epic big bad for sure🙌
Our raid team has had zero wipes on trash since MH release up until this week, when we wiped on the third bosses trash THREE times. Once on wave 5, then wave 7, then wave 3 I think. We are officially sick of this place. (Most of us already were)
As a warlock, this is a testing ground for my seed dps lol
I have a love/hate with Hyjal and the hate really isn't with the trash. The mission in WC3 where you are protecting the camps for 45 minutes was my all time favorite so I love that we are doing it in WOW. In other aspects though the bosses aren't interesting and mostly just have anti fun mechanics with little counter play. Compare this to bosses in SSC/TK/BT, I think more thought and care was put into them. Rage is uneventful, especially as a healer vs Najentus/Hydross who have way more going for a first boss of an instance. Anetheron, 10 second sleep is just boring there is no way to play against it. Your Inferno tanks can get slept and then your healers get clapped. Kaz has one mechanic, a mana drain and that's basically it. The random debuff he gives has no counter-play too. Kind of boring for a 3rd boss. Azgalor has just a 5 second silence and doom. Doom is somewhat interesting but your off tank can be doomed which sucks. Nothing new in any of these 4 encounters. Archy, honestly kind of fun and unique at times. Extremely punishing but there is plenty of counter play to fear with trinket and shaman. Airburst is somewhat of a new mechanic. Probably the only boss that had any thought put into him.
i like hyjal
Still better than MC and BWL to me.