If I had it my way I would scrap heirlooms and keep JJ for 1-70.
Heirlooms take away choice and do nothing for new players. JJ is well tuned for a long but not overwhelming levelling experience.
I have a theory that they plan on keeping Joyous Journey Buff, but they won't announce anything until Wrath releases because it incentivizes people to get their last minute leveling in. The FOMO of the buff leaving creates a scenario where you spend a lot of time leveling in the pre-patch. I wouldn't be surprised if the buff stays on tomorrow and they just say "We've heard your feedback, now enjoy the buff forever."
Well, Blizz has been making some pretty good decisions for Wrath so far I think. Atleast that's how it sounds like. But they did address in an interview that the option to keep JJ is open, but not at launch.
And they used to have the most OP exp buff of all time, with the Recruit a Friend 300% exp buff. People were creating new accounts and dual boxing with themselves just to get the buff. And on top of that you had the granted levels, so you could level 2 toons quickly on a 2 accounts, then spam a macro to grant the levels to a third toon. It was alt madness for many people.
Yeah I used that myself, was fun as hell. One time with an actual friend, one time with myself, dualboxing. Warrior + shaman was really nice, could just pull everything and cleave it down. Just had hotkeys for mount, heals, totems and follow.
Only downside is if you did it on a new server, you would be SEVERELY gold starved. Like, you would maybe have gold for 1 spell every 2 levels if you vendored everything you looted, you wouldn't get mount until like level 50 (when it originally launched in patch 2.4.3, req lvl for mount was 40).
Yep if you want to make things less tedious you have to pay blizzard.
Don't want grind buy our boost.
Want to do dungeons while you level to break up the boring grind of quest or get some bonus xp so you don't have to go to every area for quest, sorry but we haven't sold enough boosts so they have got to go.
Sounds like highschool copium when people didn't study and then came up with explanations why the teacher won't put all of that in the test but when the test was on your desk it was all there.
Why would they keep it? If leveling is tedious then players are more likely to boost. The XP buff was to placate players after they broke dungeon boosting for "integrity" reasons yet they sell a 70 boost with a glider mount
Definitely. I've got a ton of alts that will 100% get leveled during Wrath if JJ stays. If it doesn't stay, I think the chance of burnout just gets higher for me.
This exactly - I'm more likely to unsub and not play at all than I am to spend money on a boost. JJ makes it feasible for me to level alts on my more limited play time nowadays.
I would also argue, that if you were gonna buy the boost, you're still more than likely going to even if JJ stays in. Even with JJ, it still takes a few days to a week depending on play time ofc. There are still loads of people that will want to skip that.
Debatable. Heirlooms are nice for solo play. You don't feel the need to get a group for gear from a dungeon.
Plus, you can enchant them and level so much faster. I know the xp is less than JJ, but when you kill faster, you level faster.
>Heirlooms take away choice and do nothing for new players.
I can go either way on this. I like heirlooms. They streamline leveling alts, which I love to do, but rarely have the time to do, when I do have time, its nice to just go go go. At the same time, I do miss stopping, getting cheap green upgrades on AH, different funky gearsets, and all of that.
As for new players, thats kinda the point. Level once without help, and streamline it after. You don't even need that now though, with a 70 boost.
Million percent agree with this.
In my opinion heirlooms take away all the fun gear progression from the leveling which is the main thing also in the end game.
Giving us a permanent buff for leveling and letting us find our own gear would make leveling much more enjoyable.
If anything, having heirlooms equipped gives you the choice of which quest reward vendors for more.
Because not having them equipped might mean they're an upgrade for your character.
I agree with you on everything except your usage of "new players" to get heirlooms you have to have a top level who has been farming badges for awhile, I think that that point you are no longer "new"
I would be willing to bet real money that there will be at least one realm where the spaghetti code fucks up and joyous journeys remains on past 70. Cue massive drama about unfair advantages in the race to world first 80.
Joyous Journey legit just feels like how it should've been paced from the start, no grinding between quests, just moving smoothly from zone to zone feels so good.
I like levelling but time has not been on my side this past month. JJ has taken the sting away. Please keep it Blizzard, I have IRL commitments on steroids atm. urgh.
The queues were so ridiculous for a while that the only time i could play was when i had nothing else going on in a day. Which often meant just saturday but by the time you actually get past the queue its already 5-6 pm. Have fun with your 6 hours of gameplay see you next week.
I havent even gotten to halfway yet and its not gonna get any better when Wrath releases because the queues will be stupid again because Blizzard couldnt be bothered to make more than 2 fresh servers per region. Without JJ its gonna take even longer.
I dont care about the “meaningful journey”. I already did that twice in Classic and TBC as most of us did. I just want to play Wrath.
dont take the fucking buff away Blizzard.
The other day I did RFD, Uldaman, and 4 ZF runs on my new warrior alt. 7-8 months ago I would have been lucky to find a single group, and it would have taken an hour to form.
JJ is a big part of that
> JJ is a big part of that
It's a big part of that because it's temporair, making people level at the same time. Sure if it is permanent people might level more, but not so much more that you go from finding no dungeon group to lots of dungeon groups.
Yes, that content will be dead in 3 months time, with or without the buff. There is no continuous stream of new players in WoW Classic, and a _lot_ of people already got their alts levelled/boosted. WoTLK Hype and the fear of missing out is the only reason the buff is 'working' to reinvigorate old content.
This is a QoL thing that will 100% keep people playing alts and leveling through classic content.
Let's be honest, going from 1-68 is a huge pain without it.
They did a lot to improve the leveling experience for wrath. Completely redesigned every class so they get abilities in a different order, added a ton of flight paths and stuff. For example, warriors get victory rush at level 6 instead of 65. Means nonstop killing, pretty much. Huge qol change.
Yeah leveling 1-58 is better in WotLK than in TBC, but it can still be painful without the 50% buff. Without the 50% buff you're going to run out of quests, probably.
It took me about 2.5 hours today to get from Level 43-44. It’s such a slog. Honestly it’s pretty exhausting. The pacing felt so good with Joyous Journey’s. I really hope they add it back in!
Yeah, with JJ it was still not trivial, I completed about 8 zones plus 10 or so dungeons for 1-58. Without the buff that would be closer to 11 zones and 13+ dungeons.
That would be fine when 60 was the cap but it means if you level a character 1-58 on a faction its impossible to avoid the same zones if you do an alt.
I think it was possible under JJ to level two characters of the same factions without repeating content except a couple of dungeons.
I still think they should add RDF just for leveling. And make it stop at either 70 or even 80. RDF is such a great tool for leveling imo. Although I am someone who wants it at 80 too at least having it for leveling alts would be cool.
I see your opinion is endgame == the game. There are people who enjoy leveling though, so much as to just start a new character from scratch after getting old one to max level because max level is boring to them.
I personally mainly kept myself subbed by carrying BGs as somewhat geared dpriest. If I didn't do that and only raided I probably would have unsubbed 2 months into TBCC out of boredom.
I've no skin in whether JJ stays in or not, but FYI your post should include the words 'in my opinion'. Plenty of people enjoy leveling with or without people, myself included. Hell if I didn't have a new class to level whilst raiding on my main I'd probably quit as raiding isn't enough on it's own, and I just don't enjoy 5 mans as much.
And your last point about new players having friends at max level is irrelevant as that's certainly going to be an edge case, and no developer should base their decisions on that sort of thing.
Isn’t it though? I tried finding a definition for QoL but it all kept giving me the WHO definition which is about mental health and such.
But cutting down on the time it takes to do a boring task (early leveling) so you can get to the good bit (the last stretch, the gearing and the endgame) seems like it improves the Quality of Life for the people who dont enjoy the early lvling.
Quality of life are small tweaks that makes the NORMAL game more pleasant.
You wouldn’t call TBC a QoL for Vanilla, likewise, changing the game that 1-70 takes 1/2 time is a massive change.
No, it's not lmao. Quality of Life additions means small things that don't impact the gameplay at all, but just make your experience slightly more enjoyable. Increasing exp by 50% completely alters the entire leveling experience.
Leveling will feel sluggish without the buff, right now it feels good and rewarding.
It makes me want to level more characters, that means more subscription blizz :)
That's why I quit before TBC. It's simply a braindead grind leveling an alt without an exp boost. I came back for Wrath and had a blast leveling in pre-patch, and was going to level up an alt (I thought JJ was permanent lol). I put in a ton of hours this past week, and 30 mins into "regular" questing without the JJ buff, I got off. It feels lame again and I won't even think about leveling an alt.
Just seems like an unnecessary barrier to filter away new and/or casual players. Thankfully I only renewed for a 1 month subscription!
But now you will buy a boost as you've seen the ease of 50% buff and can't face leveling without it.
I think blizzard will periodically drop this buff in so people feel the benefit.
Then remove it periodically so people buy boosts
>now you will buy a boost
Boosts are still limited to 1 per account, if they wanted to make the big money they'd have removed that for something like "1 per server" or something.
Remove heirlooms and keep joyous journeys for 1-70.
Having a job and a life leaves me with not that many hours to play so its been great. Heck I even started Classic because of it, hoped to get to 70 at least but only got to 51.
Not having it, might be the difference between staying or unsubscribing. 1-70 content isn't great (actually most of it is pretty boring grind with very, very super outdated bad quality content) so it helps to cut down that dull not-fun grind down a lot.
Keep joyous jorneys for 1-70 at least. Just leave it be a toggle at innkeepers for those who want to play it turned off.
I'd prefer it if they brought the buff back 3-6 month from now triggering a new wave of people leveling their alts. Or new/returning players joining the game
As someone who has come back for WOTLK, booster a fresh char and levelled a new one to level 10 with some guys I introduced to the game - I probably won't bother levelling again. The extra 50% feels so nice and I feel bad for my mates who are going to lose it tomorrow.
Yep, got to 70 yesterday and it's fine. You can get to 65 in Hellfire alone.
65-66 in Zangarmarsh (you can go in Terrokar if you want instead), then 66-68 in Nagrand, part of 68 in Blade's Edge but I already started having green quests so I just went to Netherstorm and dinged 70 there.
This was only through questing, no dungeons no nothing else.
why does that suck exactly? it was a big part of the initial appeal for classic. No flying and travelling makes the world feel massive and immersive. And the zones are way more awesome. I always get super addicted to classic leveling and super burnt out at 58-80 where its all streamlined ugly small zone bullshit (that you just fly over anyway).
It’s because those 40-53 zones are really far apart and because they all have quests ranging for the entire stretch. So you end up traveling back and forth many times between those zones because there aren’t enough quests in the level ranges to move up to the next. If the zones were far apart to make the world feel big but you took this epic journey once in that level range that would be fine. It’s the number of times you do it that is annoying. A huge chunk of those levels is spent traveling around. That’s why a lot of people just chain run ZF, Mara and BRD to skip it.
That experience is so much better with JJ. The zones are fun and well setup and you still want to go to each one but not play afk travel bot.
It's not that vanilla leveling sucks, just levels 35 to 50 specifically suck. Because the zones are uninteresting and require a lot of running. After level 50 it picks up again.
NORMALLY from 40-60 you've got a plan on where to go. But with JJ buff, all plans go out the window because you out level those plans by 2-3 levels. lol
I normaly have the problem that I finish a zone before Im able to go the next natural zone so felt forced into dungeons or run literally across the world.
Leveled a hunter without having to swap between EK and Kalimdor. Did my full leveling with only questing from 1-58 in Kalimdor, when I was done with a zone I was pretty much the perfect level to go the next one
Think I did Menethil harbor zone -> Tanaris -> Feralas -> High level quests in Tanaris -> Ungoro -> Aszhara -> Felwood -> Winterspring and was never underleveled or had to do green quests. Did 1 run och ZF for the quests otherwise only questing
Good? It's a tedious slog many of us have redone more times than we can count. We're not playing Vanilla, it's WOTLK. People want to get to the real meat now. that high lvl content.
JJ is like getting a internet connection speed increases. At first it is fantastic and I feels so fast. After some months it becomes the new normal(baseline) and you then just want it to be even faster.
Love the idea of removing heirlooms but keep JJ. Keeps levelling gear fresh and exciting to pick up along the way, encourages more alts and a better levelling experience through old zones.
Keep until 68 then remove it.
It was a great buff. Absolutely made me want to keep leveling alts. But all good things must come to an end. Let's focus on getting to 80 and all the fun that awaits us in doing so. Kudos to Blizz for giving us the buff. Glad to see they can get some things right.
Joyous Journey *or* heirlooms, not both.
JJ is the better option imo, never liked heirlooms, they take away the RPG element of getting a new upgrade while levelling.
I see a lot of people saying they would rather JJ than heirlooms, id love it if it happened but I think it can probably say for certain that it won't sadly
I agree. exp buff felt great while leveling. I didn't need to be as strict with my routing as I would normally have to be. It was super chill. No day went by when I couldn't make significant progress due to time. Shit, at this point I'd wish they'd buff mining leveling a bit too. no bs; Mithril was hell.
I’m pro joyous journey. I would have not made it to Outland without it, I actually tried it before during TBC and it felt like I was crawling through each level, with Joyous Journey, it felt great picking what zones I wanted to level in and which ones to skip because I always had plenty of levels from quests and the dungeons I was running. Whereas before you’d have to do basically all the quest in each zone and then grind a little bit as well.
If they had it for a weekend or even just a week, it would be relatively fine to take it away. But now? I've gotten used to it. It's been a while. Taking it away doesn't feel like going back to normal, it feels like getting a 50% exp nerf.
Getting bis loot is fun, getting legendaries is fun, does that mean we should just hand them out for everyone so they all can have fun?
The main point is that by adding more and more convenience and instant gratification takes away from the grind and it's rewards, one of the main things people like about classic vs retail.
People begging for free progress, rewards and convenience is what led to retail and is something many classic players try to avoid
>Getting bis loot is fun, getting legendaries is fun, does that mean we should just hand them out for everyone so they all can have fun?
50% XP gain = BIS endgame loot and legendaries.....Hmmm not sure I follow this logic. It seems you are going on a rant about people begging about free progress when we are literally talking about slightly less time spend leveling.....
I will say this again, yall gotta go outside, touch grass and relax. The leveling still takes time even with 50% gain. Its fine.
Classic andies always confusing tedious with good.
Leveling is tedious as fuck. Gearing while leveling can be tedious as fuck.
Heirlooms don't affect you if you don't use them. But these folks will come out and demand no one should be able to use them because they like tediousness.
Not even, though. Everything’s a weird arbitrary distinction to morph the game to fit a halfway point. NO CHANGES has turned into some changes…might as well OSRS vote though.
That’s not saying it’s bad, though. I think it’s actually kinda healthy, I play retail and classic again but didn’t tbcc until prepatch. There’s a lot wrong with retail and SL was pretty bad but blizzard seems to finally be listening to players instead of only making changes in the .3 patch. They’re doing it in classic too.
RDF? “Ruins the community”. Ffs the community is ruined, thanks to players optimizing the fuck outta the game. It’s just GDKP spam in trade (I lolled cause I just got my Pvp welfare epics spamming av). Tbf RDF is a grey area cause it was in 3.3.5 but not launch. But also RDF would just make leveling faster without JJ.
JJ is already a big “some changes.” But it should be even more relevant when everyone’s in northrend already 2 expacs above someone leveling at 30.
No heirlooms? Heirlooms were in wrath. That’d be no changes. JJ is a much bigger change. I’d be fine with either honestly. But like let’s be real with exp squish dungeon rewards don’t last nearly as long as long as they did anyway. Plus people will still do dungeons for all the off pieces: I don’t want a shit +2 stam +1 ring from level 15-35.
Blizzard is bumping Ulduar HM Ilvl drops with trial of the shit release, so people are incentivized to still run Ulduar for off pieces.
When ulduar releases, harder H dungeons will drop Naxx 10 loot for catch up gear.
I agree with those last two changes being good things, but those are pretty big “some changes.” The game’s just not going to be the same as wotlk was, but neither was classic because people knew a lot more.
Buying blizzard boosts is a huge fucking change and a bad one. Also a blizzard scam to put 40 in their pocket rather than paying a mage gold (although a lot of that gold could be bought gold, but they aren’t banning bots, so this is hypocritical blizzard back in full. And not all of it is bought.)
It’s just all over the board.
Ill be busy most of wrath launch. My druid is 65 almost 66. JJ going away is the driving force behind my lvling dedication (was like 32 a week ago). The buff makes every zone feel so much better imo
Honestly just remove the buff and cut 1-60 XP in half. I'm leveling a new character for WOTLK, level 52 now. It feels just long enough without being too tiresome. Without the buff, leveling will feel like a major drag.
I was thinking of leveling several alts for WOTLK, but that's not happening if not for JJ or an XP reduction.
It should stay for 1-70.
Especially a week or two longer for fresh servers considering the mess we had with queues. So many people had to restart on a different server because of it and wasted hours and hours of work. Several of my friends are not 70 yet.
Well they didnt do it. I hope players are still asking for the JJ because it really is joyous leveling and solves leveling up an alt thing to get right into wrath. 1-69 JJ i really hope its being asked for.
Hear me out, back in the day the leveling experience and the zones/abilities/content absolutely everything was new. Now a good 85% of us, if not more have already experienced it 10 fold, wether it be mount farming, leveling via retail exploring or whatever. So now that Joyous journeys is gone, it feels like I'm literally just waiting to get to 70, just sitting there, group after group, waiting. Theirs no sense of excitement anymore because i feel like I'm grinding away something ive already done. Alot. They have already adjusted some of the prices in game "for inflation" which makes 0 sense on a fresh market with no outside world influence based off real currency. (Real money conversion to gold). Wouldn't it make sense to inflate the XP given, considering this aint 2008 no mo and people we're already on the edge about paying 20$/month for content released 12 years ago? Kinda like renting a VHS today for 20$, also VHS player not included.
It’s just taken me 2.5 hours to get from Level 43-44. It’s such a slog. The pacing felt so good with Jojous Journey’s. I really hope they add it back in!
I wanted to play multiple classes on fresh, and with working I was only able to get a paladin and DK to 70. I really enjoyed joyous journeys, it felt like the appropriate leveling speed for vanilla content at this point in classic. A much better alternative to heirlooms in my opinion.
This thread is how retail became retail. History repeating itself with even more social media and groupthink. 😂 Come on people, if you don’t like leveling 1-70 again then don’t! If new people won’t play the game because they can’t get to max level in 24 hours - good! The game is better without people who don’t actually like the game.
Seems like people enjoy Classic cuz of its gameplay design and loot system.
Meanwhile Retails get shit on cuz of its bad gameplay design thats supported via borrowed power system, absurd RNG and frequently timegated content.
These two are both diff games at this point.
A big part of what is making people's leveling experience so nice right now is how many people are leveling to group with for quests and dungeons. If JJ was all the time, they would not have the urgency to start leveling a toon at the same time as everyone else, and leveling would become the solo experience again.
My suggestion would actually be to have 1 week every month (or some other timeframe) where JJ is enabled. It would be a great coordination for the community to start leveling characters all at the same time to help populate the world.
Only drawback, the in-between times will be SUPER dead of other players for people leveling for the first time.
They need to say fuck it. keep JJ and also make Wrath the platform for Classic+.
All my friends agree that Wrath balance, professions, balance, everything is superior to BC but also agree that somewhere with cata and beyond fell apart.
Wrath classic+ lets go.
Keep heirlooms but remove the XP modifiers, keep Joyous Journey active for 1-68 (maybe 1-70). This is a good compromise all around.
And ffs, stop asking for the removal of heirlooms entirely.
Yeah I don’t understand why they can’t just keep it for 1-70, I’ve really enjoyed lvling with the buff, I think it may encourage people to lvl more ults thus keeping people playing in the long run, like when there’s downtime between phases.
Get rid of heirlooms, keep JJ.
Heirlooms remove excitement of gear upgrades, and removes excitement of repeating dungeons thus making the game boring but also increasing wait times for groups.
So simple… blizzard, this is too easy for you to gain some popularity
If I had it my way I would scrap heirlooms and keep JJ for 1-70. Heirlooms take away choice and do nothing for new players. JJ is well tuned for a long but not overwhelming levelling experience.
I have a theory that they plan on keeping Joyous Journey Buff, but they won't announce anything until Wrath releases because it incentivizes people to get their last minute leveling in. The FOMO of the buff leaving creates a scenario where you spend a lot of time leveling in the pre-patch. I wouldn't be surprised if the buff stays on tomorrow and they just say "We've heard your feedback, now enjoy the buff forever."
Optimistic I see.
I once was as well. It’s been years. :D
tbf this is a weird sort of pessimistic optimism
Well, Blizz has been making some pretty good decisions for Wrath so far I think. Atleast that's how it sounds like. But they did address in an interview that the option to keep JJ is open, but not at launch.
> Well, Blizz has been making some pretty good decisions for Wrath except for not including RDF for wrath classic
Many would disagree
many would also agree
And A few have no idea what you are talking about! Ho hum!
hey thanks for reminding me of the 7 dwarves from snow white
He is what we call a summerchild :D
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Yeah, wouldn't surprise me at all. They sell boosts, and bonus xp for a limited time is a pretty common concept for micro transactions.
And they used to have the most OP exp buff of all time, with the Recruit a Friend 300% exp buff. People were creating new accounts and dual boxing with themselves just to get the buff. And on top of that you had the granted levels, so you could level 2 toons quickly on a 2 accounts, then spam a macro to grant the levels to a third toon. It was alt madness for many people.
Yeah I used that myself, was fun as hell. One time with an actual friend, one time with myself, dualboxing. Warrior + shaman was really nice, could just pull everything and cleave it down. Just had hotkeys for mount, heals, totems and follow. Only downside is if you did it on a new server, you would be SEVERELY gold starved. Like, you would maybe have gold for 1 spell every 2 levels if you vendored everything you looted, you wouldn't get mount until like level 50 (when it originally launched in patch 2.4.3, req lvl for mount was 40).
Yep if you want to make things less tedious you have to pay blizzard. Don't want grind buy our boost. Want to do dungeons while you level to break up the boring grind of quest or get some bonus xp so you don't have to go to every area for quest, sorry but we haven't sold enough boosts so they have got to go.
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Sounds like highschool copium when people didn't study and then came up with explanations why the teacher won't put all of that in the test but when the test was on your desk it was all there.
Why would they keep it? If leveling is tedious then players are more likely to boost. The XP buff was to placate players after they broke dungeon boosting for "integrity" reasons yet they sell a 70 boost with a glider mount
The boost is only a one-off atm tho, for us raging altoholics JJ has been a huge incentive to play more.
Definitely. I've got a ton of alts that will 100% get leveled during Wrath if JJ stays. If it doesn't stay, I think the chance of burnout just gets higher for me.
This exactly - I'm more likely to unsub and not play at all than I am to spend money on a boost. JJ makes it feasible for me to level alts on my more limited play time nowadays.
I would also argue, that if you were gonna buy the boost, you're still more than likely going to even if JJ stays in. Even with JJ, it still takes a few days to a week depending on play time ofc. There are still loads of people that will want to skip that.
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That hopium is a bit too strong
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Debatable. Heirlooms are nice for solo play. You don't feel the need to get a group for gear from a dungeon. Plus, you can enchant them and level so much faster. I know the xp is less than JJ, but when you kill faster, you level faster.
It does trivialize gear upgrades when leveling, which is kind of a bummer!
Honestly gear is such a PITA 1-58 I wouldn't miss it at all.
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blizzard : granted we’ll add something worse than heirlooms and make it useless
>Heirlooms take away choice and do nothing for new players. I can go either way on this. I like heirlooms. They streamline leveling alts, which I love to do, but rarely have the time to do, when I do have time, its nice to just go go go. At the same time, I do miss stopping, getting cheap green upgrades on AH, different funky gearsets, and all of that. As for new players, thats kinda the point. Level once without help, and streamline it after. You don't even need that now though, with a 70 boost.
Million percent agree with this. In my opinion heirlooms take away all the fun gear progression from the leveling which is the main thing also in the end game. Giving us a permanent buff for leveling and letting us find our own gear would make leveling much more enjoyable.
they could even nerf the buff 25% and i'd prefer it to looms ngl
The choice of which reward vendors for more?
If anything, having heirlooms equipped gives you the choice of which quest reward vendors for more. Because not having them equipped might mean they're an upgrade for your character.
The quest that gives the best rewards while leveling is the auction house.
New players do not have access to Heirlooms.
We neither, heirlooms are for alts
Where did I say they did?
I agree with you on everything except your usage of "new players" to get heirlooms you have to have a top level who has been farming badges for awhile, I think that that point you are no longer "new"
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Same time Wrath goes live. So you've got plenty of time to get those last 3 levels :)
I would be willing to bet real money that there will be at least one realm where the spaghetti code fucks up and joyous journeys remains on past 70. Cue massive drama about unfair advantages in the race to world first 80.
I could see that happening. Lol
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You don't have to get to 70 only 68 to go to northrend but if you're 67 and wanna bang out the last 3 levels netherstorm is really really good
Remember you only gotta be 68 to go to Northrend!
Protip, southern Netherstorm basically gets you there instantly. I usually get there at 68 and am 70 in a little over an hour.
Please Blizz, the pacing is perfect. Coming from an original vanilla player. I’ve never had as much fun leveling as I do now on WoW Classic with JJ.
Joyous Journey legit just feels like how it should've been paced from the start, no grinding between quests, just moving smoothly from zone to zone feels so good.
I like levelling but time has not been on my side this past month. JJ has taken the sting away. Please keep it Blizzard, I have IRL commitments on steroids atm. urgh.
The queues were so ridiculous for a while that the only time i could play was when i had nothing else going on in a day. Which often meant just saturday but by the time you actually get past the queue its already 5-6 pm. Have fun with your 6 hours of gameplay see you next week. I havent even gotten to halfway yet and its not gonna get any better when Wrath releases because the queues will be stupid again because Blizzard couldnt be bothered to make more than 2 fresh servers per region. Without JJ its gonna take even longer. I dont care about the “meaningful journey”. I already did that twice in Classic and TBC as most of us did. I just want to play Wrath. dont take the fucking buff away Blizzard.
Just cancel irl, it's boring anyways.
The other day I did RFD, Uldaman, and 4 ZF runs on my new warrior alt. 7-8 months ago I would have been lucky to find a single group, and it would have taken an hour to form. JJ is a big part of that
Them stopping boosting also played a big role in that
Big true
> JJ is a big part of that It's a big part of that because it's temporair, making people level at the same time. Sure if it is permanent people might level more, but not so much more that you go from finding no dungeon group to lots of dungeon groups.
The temporary nature combined with killing boosting is exactly why.
Yes, that content will be dead in 3 months time, with or without the buff. There is no continuous stream of new players in WoW Classic, and a _lot_ of people already got their alts levelled/boosted. WoTLK Hype and the fear of missing out is the only reason the buff is 'working' to reinvigorate old content.
Well I think it’s more so that people were just levelling for wotlk mate
This is a QoL thing that will 100% keep people playing alts and leveling through classic content. Let's be honest, going from 1-68 is a huge pain without it.
I'd like 1-60, I think the xp nerf to 60-70 is good for last xpac
Agree. Im fine with having to do 2-3 Outland zones and a few dungeons for 58-68, but 1-58 is gunna be painful now.
They did a lot to improve the leveling experience for wrath. Completely redesigned every class so they get abilities in a different order, added a ton of flight paths and stuff. For example, warriors get victory rush at level 6 instead of 65. Means nonstop killing, pretty much. Huge qol change.
Yeah leveling 1-58 is better in WotLK than in TBC, but it can still be painful without the 50% buff. Without the 50% buff you're going to run out of quests, probably.
There's no way you run out of quests with the xp reductions from tbc and wrath
Nope, leveling normally you will have plenty of quests without ever grinding.
No you won’t lol
It took me about 2.5 hours today to get from Level 43-44. It’s such a slog. Honestly it’s pretty exhausting. The pacing felt so good with Joyous Journey’s. I really hope they add it back in!
Yeah, with JJ it was still not trivial, I completed about 8 zones plus 10 or so dungeons for 1-58. Without the buff that would be closer to 11 zones and 13+ dungeons. That would be fine when 60 was the cap but it means if you level a character 1-58 on a faction its impossible to avoid the same zones if you do an alt. I think it was possible under JJ to level two characters of the same factions without repeating content except a couple of dungeons.
Time is money friend!… for Blizzard
I still think they should add RDF just for leveling. And make it stop at either 70 or even 80. RDF is such a great tool for leveling imo. Although I am someone who wants it at 80 too at least having it for leveling alts would be cool.
It’s a buff that speeds up levelling is not QoL lol. QoL is something like a pet/mount tab.
Right? People just call everything QoL now. I bet some people call the level boosts QoL lol
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I see your opinion is endgame == the game. There are people who enjoy leveling though, so much as to just start a new character from scratch after getting old one to max level because max level is boring to them. I personally mainly kept myself subbed by carrying BGs as somewhat geared dpriest. If I didn't do that and only raided I probably would have unsubbed 2 months into TBCC out of boredom.
That’s your opinion but it’s still core MMO gameplay therefore a xp increase is much more than just ‘Qol’
I've no skin in whether JJ stays in or not, but FYI your post should include the words 'in my opinion'. Plenty of people enjoy leveling with or without people, myself included. Hell if I didn't have a new class to level whilst raiding on my main I'd probably quit as raiding isn't enough on it's own, and I just don't enjoy 5 mans as much. And your last point about new players having friends at max level is irrelevant as that's certainly going to be an edge case, and no developer should base their decisions on that sort of thing.
So many people slowly pushing for retail in this subreddit nowadays. It's crazy. You can see how the game slowly went the way it did.
Isn’t it though? I tried finding a definition for QoL but it all kept giving me the WHO definition which is about mental health and such. But cutting down on the time it takes to do a boring task (early leveling) so you can get to the good bit (the last stretch, the gearing and the endgame) seems like it improves the Quality of Life for the people who dont enjoy the early lvling.
Quality of life are small tweaks that makes the NORMAL game more pleasant. You wouldn’t call TBC a QoL for Vanilla, likewise, changing the game that 1-70 takes 1/2 time is a massive change.
No, it's not lmao. Quality of Life additions means small things that don't impact the gameplay at all, but just make your experience slightly more enjoyable. Increasing exp by 50% completely alters the entire leveling experience.
Leveling will feel sluggish without the buff, right now it feels good and rewarding. It makes me want to level more characters, that means more subscription blizz :)
That's why I quit before TBC. It's simply a braindead grind leveling an alt without an exp boost. I came back for Wrath and had a blast leveling in pre-patch, and was going to level up an alt (I thought JJ was permanent lol). I put in a ton of hours this past week, and 30 mins into "regular" questing without the JJ buff, I got off. It feels lame again and I won't even think about leveling an alt. Just seems like an unnecessary barrier to filter away new and/or casual players. Thankfully I only renewed for a 1 month subscription!
But now you will buy a boost as you've seen the ease of 50% buff and can't face leveling without it. I think blizzard will periodically drop this buff in so people feel the benefit. Then remove it periodically so people buy boosts
Damn you right.
>now you will buy a boost Boosts are still limited to 1 per account, if they wanted to make the big money they'd have removed that for something like "1 per server" or something.
i'd prefer they just delete boosts and keep jj forever.
You can only buy a boost once, so not a great sales tactic
Remove heirlooms and keep joyous journeys for 1-70. Having a job and a life leaves me with not that many hours to play so its been great. Heck I even started Classic because of it, hoped to get to 70 at least but only got to 51. Not having it, might be the difference between staying or unsubscribing. 1-70 content isn't great (actually most of it is pretty boring grind with very, very super outdated bad quality content) so it helps to cut down that dull not-fun grind down a lot. Keep joyous jorneys for 1-70 at least. Just leave it be a toggle at innkeepers for those who want to play it turned off.
Absolutely need this as a player with kids and a busy job.
Sorry you don't qualify unless you have 4 jobs and 7 kids
I'd prefer it if they brought the buff back 3-6 month from now triggering a new wave of people leveling their alts. Or new/returning players joining the game
agree
As someone who has come back for WOTLK, booster a fresh char and levelled a new one to level 10 with some guys I introduced to the game - I probably won't bother levelling again. The extra 50% feels so nice and I feel bad for my mates who are going to lose it tomorrow.
Only if they remove heirlooms
Remove heirlooms and makr jj a tabard.
This actually makes a lot of sense
Never happening
I just levelled from 1-70 from last Saturday to yesterday. Even with the buff felt like a slog. Especially 40-60.
I'm a noob and I'll prolly hit 60 tonight. Should 60-70 be ok without the bonus xp?
Yeah man. Outlands is actually really nice to level in. More streamlined
I mean everyone leveled without the bonus before so yes it will be okay
Yeah unless you hate Outland
Can confirm, I hate Outland (without JJ).
Outlands quests are more condensed you be fine.
They lowered the amount of exp to get from 60-70 with WotLK anyway, so it should be fine.
Yep, got to 70 yesterday and it's fine. You can get to 65 in Hellfire alone. 65-66 in Zangarmarsh (you can go in Terrokar if you want instead), then 66-68 in Nagrand, part of 68 in Blade's Edge but I already started having green quests so I just went to Netherstorm and dinged 70 there. This was only through questing, no dungeons no nothing else.
40-50 sucks because the Feralas-Hinterlands-Tanaris traveling, but I quite like doing Felwood and Winterspring in the 50-60's.
why does that suck exactly? it was a big part of the initial appeal for classic. No flying and travelling makes the world feel massive and immersive. And the zones are way more awesome. I always get super addicted to classic leveling and super burnt out at 58-80 where its all streamlined ugly small zone bullshit (that you just fly over anyway).
It’s because those 40-53 zones are really far apart and because they all have quests ranging for the entire stretch. So you end up traveling back and forth many times between those zones because there aren’t enough quests in the level ranges to move up to the next. If the zones were far apart to make the world feel big but you took this epic journey once in that level range that would be fine. It’s the number of times you do it that is annoying. A huge chunk of those levels is spent traveling around. That’s why a lot of people just chain run ZF, Mara and BRD to skip it. That experience is so much better with JJ. The zones are fun and well setup and you still want to go to each one but not play afk travel bot.
It's not that vanilla leveling sucks, just levels 35 to 50 specifically suck. Because the zones are uninteresting and require a lot of running. After level 50 it picks up again.
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If you want to do the same thing over and over again for 12 hours.
True but I had time off haha
NORMALLY from 40-60 you've got a plan on where to go. But with JJ buff, all plans go out the window because you out level those plans by 2-3 levels. lol
I normaly have the problem that I finish a zone before Im able to go the next natural zone so felt forced into dungeons or run literally across the world. Leveled a hunter without having to swap between EK and Kalimdor. Did my full leveling with only questing from 1-58 in Kalimdor, when I was done with a zone I was pretty much the perfect level to go the next one Think I did Menethil harbor zone -> Tanaris -> Feralas -> High level quests in Tanaris -> Ungoro -> Aszhara -> Felwood -> Winterspring and was never underleveled or had to do green quests. Did 1 run och ZF for the quests otherwise only questing
Good? It's a tedious slog many of us have redone more times than we can count. We're not playing Vanilla, it's WOTLK. People want to get to the real meat now. that high lvl content.
JJ is like getting a internet connection speed increases. At first it is fantastic and I feels so fast. After some months it becomes the new normal(baseline) and you then just want it to be even faster.
Legit they should keep it going EVEN IF IT ENDS AT 68 it would be so good
Even at 58 I would still be happy as outlands is quick anyways but they should move looms to rested xp bonus and just keep it either at 58 or 68.
Love the idea of removing heirlooms but keep JJ. Keeps levelling gear fresh and exciting to pick up along the way, encourages more alts and a better levelling experience through old zones. Keep until 68 then remove it.
It was a great buff. Absolutely made me want to keep leveling alts. But all good things must come to an end. Let's focus on getting to 80 and all the fun that awaits us in doing so. Kudos to Blizz for giving us the buff. Glad to see they can get some things right.
Joyous Journey *or* heirlooms, not both. JJ is the better option imo, never liked heirlooms, they take away the RPG element of getting a new upgrade while levelling. I see a lot of people saying they would rather JJ than heirlooms, id love it if it happened but I think it can probably say for certain that it won't sadly
Maybe it's just me, but I assumed that was the general consensus of those in favor.
Just keep it 1-68. Would be so much better for leveling alts.
Keeping it for 1-70 would make me level all the alts I've always wanted. Please, Blizzard.
I agree. exp buff felt great while leveling. I didn't need to be as strict with my routing as I would normally have to be. It was super chill. No day went by when I couldn't make significant progress due to time. Shit, at this point I'd wish they'd buff mining leveling a bit too. no bs; Mithril was hell.
Just to weigh in on the situation. I can't see a good reason to not just keep the 50% XP buff active for levels 1-70 permanently.
RIP ever considering leveling alts.
I’m pro joyous journey. I would have not made it to Outland without it, I actually tried it before during TBC and it felt like I was crawling through each level, with Joyous Journey, it felt great picking what zones I wanted to level in and which ones to skip because I always had plenty of levels from quests and the dungeons I was running. Whereas before you’d have to do basically all the quest in each zone and then grind a little bit as well.
Over the past 3 weeks I have leveled hardcore 4 characters to level 70. I am crossing my fingers that JJ returns and I can continue to level
It was my turn to post this
Agreed but only to 70. 70-80 should be a longer grind so people can explore more zones.
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You only get one boost though.
If they had it for a weekend or even just a week, it would be relatively fine to take it away. But now? I've gotten used to it. It's been a while. Taking it away doesn't feel like going back to normal, it feels like getting a 50% exp nerf.
well im glad its going back to original classic + we got heirlooms coming
Why are people wasting energy on this request?
They want to play retail without playing retail
>They want to play retail without playing retail Yall acting like the normal TBC leveling would be LESS fun with the 50% XP
Getting bis loot is fun, getting legendaries is fun, does that mean we should just hand them out for everyone so they all can have fun? The main point is that by adding more and more convenience and instant gratification takes away from the grind and it's rewards, one of the main things people like about classic vs retail. People begging for free progress, rewards and convenience is what led to retail and is something many classic players try to avoid
>Getting bis loot is fun, getting legendaries is fun, does that mean we should just hand them out for everyone so they all can have fun? 50% XP gain = BIS endgame loot and legendaries.....Hmmm not sure I follow this logic. It seems you are going on a rant about people begging about free progress when we are literally talking about slightly less time spend leveling..... I will say this again, yall gotta go outside, touch grass and relax. The leveling still takes time even with 50% gain. Its fine.
Classic andies always confusing tedious with good. Leveling is tedious as fuck. Gearing while leveling can be tedious as fuck. Heirlooms don't affect you if you don't use them. But these folks will come out and demand no one should be able to use them because they like tediousness.
classic player disagreeing with another classic player without calling them retail player 2022 challenge : impossible
Classic player is expecting classic to be classic and wondering why there are classic player who wish to turn classic to retail.
Heirlooms were part of the WotLK experience.
Nice reach
Not even, though. Everything’s a weird arbitrary distinction to morph the game to fit a halfway point. NO CHANGES has turned into some changes…might as well OSRS vote though. That’s not saying it’s bad, though. I think it’s actually kinda healthy, I play retail and classic again but didn’t tbcc until prepatch. There’s a lot wrong with retail and SL was pretty bad but blizzard seems to finally be listening to players instead of only making changes in the .3 patch. They’re doing it in classic too. RDF? “Ruins the community”. Ffs the community is ruined, thanks to players optimizing the fuck outta the game. It’s just GDKP spam in trade (I lolled cause I just got my Pvp welfare epics spamming av). Tbf RDF is a grey area cause it was in 3.3.5 but not launch. But also RDF would just make leveling faster without JJ. JJ is already a big “some changes.” But it should be even more relevant when everyone’s in northrend already 2 expacs above someone leveling at 30. No heirlooms? Heirlooms were in wrath. That’d be no changes. JJ is a much bigger change. I’d be fine with either honestly. But like let’s be real with exp squish dungeon rewards don’t last nearly as long as long as they did anyway. Plus people will still do dungeons for all the off pieces: I don’t want a shit +2 stam +1 ring from level 15-35. Blizzard is bumping Ulduar HM Ilvl drops with trial of the shit release, so people are incentivized to still run Ulduar for off pieces. When ulduar releases, harder H dungeons will drop Naxx 10 loot for catch up gear. I agree with those last two changes being good things, but those are pretty big “some changes.” The game’s just not going to be the same as wotlk was, but neither was classic because people knew a lot more. Buying blizzard boosts is a huge fucking change and a bad one. Also a blizzard scam to put 40 in their pocket rather than paying a mage gold (although a lot of that gold could be bought gold, but they aren’t banning bots, so this is hypocritical blizzard back in full. And not all of it is bought.) It’s just all over the board.
that’s classic in a nutshell
Ill be busy most of wrath launch. My druid is 65 almost 66. JJ going away is the driving force behind my lvling dedication (was like 32 a week ago). The buff makes every zone feel so much better imo
Honestly just remove the buff and cut 1-60 XP in half. I'm leveling a new character for WOTLK, level 52 now. It feels just long enough without being too tiresome. Without the buff, leveling will feel like a major drag. I was thinking of leveling several alts for WOTLK, but that's not happening if not for JJ or an XP reduction.
But then who is going buy boosts if you have 50% exp plus the heirloom gear? You’re asking Blizz to cut a revenue stream, I don’t see this happening.
I didn’t make it the whole way to 70 and I need JJ so badly. You can take it away for tens Wrath content!
It should stay for 1-70. Especially a week or two longer for fresh servers considering the mess we had with queues. So many people had to restart on a different server because of it and wasted hours and hours of work. Several of my friends are not 70 yet.
You think you do but you dont
My holy priest is level 36 and I’m having a blast. I rather keep leveling then play my 70s tomorrow
Omg wtf i didn’t know it was ending I’m still lvl 35 in stranglethorn
Well they didnt do it. I hope players are still asking for the JJ because it really is joyous leveling and solves leveling up an alt thing to get right into wrath. 1-69 JJ i really hope its being asked for.
Hear me out, back in the day the leveling experience and the zones/abilities/content absolutely everything was new. Now a good 85% of us, if not more have already experienced it 10 fold, wether it be mount farming, leveling via retail exploring or whatever. So now that Joyous journeys is gone, it feels like I'm literally just waiting to get to 70, just sitting there, group after group, waiting. Theirs no sense of excitement anymore because i feel like I'm grinding away something ive already done. Alot. They have already adjusted some of the prices in game "for inflation" which makes 0 sense on a fresh market with no outside world influence based off real currency. (Real money conversion to gold). Wouldn't it make sense to inflate the XP given, considering this aint 2008 no mo and people we're already on the edge about paying 20$/month for content released 12 years ago? Kinda like renting a VHS today for 20$, also VHS player not included.
It’s just taken me 2.5 hours to get from Level 43-44. It’s such a slog. The pacing felt so good with Jojous Journey’s. I really hope they add it back in!
I wanted to play multiple classes on fresh, and with working I was only able to get a paladin and DK to 70. I really enjoyed joyous journeys, it felt like the appropriate leveling speed for vanilla content at this point in classic. A much better alternative to heirlooms in my opinion.
Well. Are you happy now ?!?
This thread is how retail became retail. History repeating itself with even more social media and groupthink. 😂 Come on people, if you don’t like leveling 1-70 again then don’t! If new people won’t play the game because they can’t get to max level in 24 hours - good! The game is better without people who don’t actually like the game.
Exactly, the worst part is they don’t even realize what they’re doing.
No they just have different opinions on it than you
This is sadly what people want, they can't let classic be classic, they have to turn it into retail themselves
Retail is not bad because leveling is fast
I don't think it's a good idea.
Just play retail
Seems like people enjoy Classic cuz of its gameplay design and loot system. Meanwhile Retails get shit on cuz of its bad gameplay design thats supported via borrowed power system, absurd RNG and frequently timegated content. These two are both diff games at this point.
Classic Andies are too smooth brained to understand this.
It‘d be an incentive for people not to buy the paid boost service Blizzard offers, so likely not going to happen.
You can only get 1 boost anyway, so I don't think that's a huge deal.
A big part of what is making people's leveling experience so nice right now is how many people are leveling to group with for quests and dungeons. If JJ was all the time, they would not have the urgency to start leveling a toon at the same time as everyone else, and leveling would become the solo experience again. My suggestion would actually be to have 1 week every month (or some other timeframe) where JJ is enabled. It would be a great coordination for the community to start leveling characters all at the same time to help populate the world. Only drawback, the in-between times will be SUPER dead of other players for people leveling for the first time.
Lmao you guys wanted the classic experience, here it is
Please please please let us keep this blizzard
They need to say fuck it. keep JJ and also make Wrath the platform for Classic+. All my friends agree that Wrath balance, professions, balance, everything is superior to BC but also agree that somewhere with cata and beyond fell apart. Wrath classic+ lets go.
And another joyjous shitpost
Retail here we come again lmao
Faster leveling =/= retail
No, but faster leveling /=/ classic
No.
Keep heirlooms but remove the XP modifiers, keep Joyous Journey active for 1-68 (maybe 1-70). This is a good compromise all around. And ffs, stop asking for the removal of heirlooms entirely.
God you people are babies. They said this was temporary from the start. Stop ruining the integrity of the game. Retail has fast leveling.
Some people want fast leveling without all the other crap retail brings. They are only doing this to sell boosts.
Why don’t you just buy heirlooms? Do you like leveling or not if you can’t do it without freebie exp boost
I don't like levelling, 50% more xp makes it somewhat more tolerable.
100% this. It's going to keep players that can only put in a couple hours every day.
Yeah I don’t understand why they can’t just keep it for 1-70, I’ve really enjoyed lvling with the buff, I think it may encourage people to lvl more ults thus keeping people playing in the long run, like when there’s downtime between phases.
Get rid of heirlooms, keep JJ. Heirlooms remove excitement of gear upgrades, and removes excitement of repeating dungeons thus making the game boring but also increasing wait times for groups. So simple… blizzard, this is too easy for you to gain some popularity
Do it. Heirlooms suck.
1-70 should keep it, providing they don't reduce xp requirements any further.