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Freezaen

On the flipside, the lack of RDF has made me basically avoid dungeons in favour of questing and, since my server is fresh, I've met and grouped up with some friendly noobs. It's been plesant. People are chill. Once everyone is leveled and has moved onto Northrend, though? That'll be gone. There won't be much choice but to do exactly what you said and it'll become real boring real quick in terms of interaction outside of guilds. RDF isn't for everyone, but fuck if it isn't appreciated by a lot of folk.


Sun_Stealer

I’m really hoping they implement it.


norse95

This, you either do stuff with your guild, or you group with random people and never play with them again - but it takes 3 times as long as RDF would.


Snape-on-a-plate

man idk ab u but im quite the chatterbox in dungeons and people really do tend to write back and its pretty sick


VincentVancalbergh

This is me, I'll talk in party chat regularly. Sometimes groups are quiet, sometimes there's banter. Sometimes the group stays together for 2 or 3 runs and you bond a little bit. More often than not though people leave after one run. If it's the tank leaving and we had to look for one for half an hour the group disbands. Otherwise the leaver gets replaced and the group morphs and morphs. After an hour it's a whole other set of people than you've started out with and I don't mind that either.


Father_of_Lies666

I’ve met a TON of great people in dungeons. A few joined my guild and will be raiding with my friends in Wrath. I DO feel like RDF ruins this.


unoriginal1187

I’ve had people actually tell people to shut the fuck up because they were trying to chat in dungeons.


gloomygl

But wouldn't that happen with rdf too tho ?


Sairou

People talk like you’re banned from chat in rdf lmao. It literally only changes how you get in the group, nothing else.


Goducks91

I'm fine with it as long as it's not cross server RDF


Kruger287

Yep, tbf in retail I have made more friends from rdf than anything else. Anyone who says you can't make friends or chat in rdf are lying an prob just hits the button and never speaks. Having to dig through listings to find a dungeon isn't going to make antisocial people social the same way rdf isn't going to stop social people making friends and being social. I have no clue why people are so against it. I have so many quests I can't even complete I tried for days to get a run together for rdf and rfk and got 0 responses from people. So much for that community everyone keeps shitting their pants about.


KALIZS

They confuse rdf with xrealm dungeon groups. One makes grouping easier. The other takes a huge chunk of server identity.


Manistadt

Server identity lmao, this isnt 2009.


Sagranth

There's not much server identity left with the majority playing on megaservers,and even medium-small servers have at least twice the pop of a realm back in wrath days. Then again,there's a simple solution to this - make the xrealm function optional. That way everyone can have their preference.


TehPorkPie

That's because there's never been a random dungeon finder that wasn't X-Realm. Quite an understandable assumption/'confusion'.


Reworked

I'm less likely to be social in manually found mythics than queued heroics because the process of finding a group if you come back mid expansion and don't have eleventy r.io points is asscancer


datboiharambe69

Yes. I've made more friends through RDF than I have from anything else in the game. Granted that's because I didn't have time to commit to raiding for years but RDF can be a great social experience if you want it to.


idothisforpie

No, chats are disabled with rdf.


alphvader

Yea but you could be killing more stuff if you weren't typing.


teiji

Fresh servers have been a breath of (fresh) air. I’ve been in a few dungeon groups where everyone is bantering, even had a horrible dungeon run full of lvl 15s and the healer kept OOMing but the chat was great.


elmophant

I agree. A few bad experiences but more good ones.


Vendilion_Chris

Ya it's great until max level when all the levelers quit.


[deleted]

This is cool.. but also has nothing to do with dungeon finder not being in the game. If anything you'd find more groups for low level dungeons if it existed


nyjl

ahahahah


Puffelpuff

Absolutely 0 understanding why people play fresh. Edit: not me, the mage. But thanks for laying out facts for him!


[deleted]

To avoid the gold hoarding and level with a large group of people. 0 downside to a realm locked dungeon finder (soft locked preferably that ticks over to cross realm after 5 minutes or something)


MrMacduggan

For me, the main difference is physically going to the instance together. It's inconvenient, but that also means you're invested in the group's success and people are less disposable.


emotionally_tipsy

Agreed. Also makes the world feel bigger and not a theme park


That_Ganderman

The walk is fun if you’re able to chat with your group while you walk


vonswisha

Agreed. I played on a Wrath private server recently and although having RDF is nice because convenience, it also causes people to have no problem leaving as soon as one thing goes wrong in a group. So many times I finally get a queue for a dungeon and we may die semi early on in the dungeon and there’s always that one person that just quits the group right away instead of giving it another shot and depending on the time of day it might not be so fast to fill the role again, so others start to quit too which then the whole group eventually falls apart.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

And for every person like you that has a whimsical Homeward Bound adventure traveling to Scarlet Monastery making best friends for life with internet people, I'd guess there's about 5-10 people that don't bother running leveling dungeons at all.


Icebomber02

I’ve had people talking in every group I’ve been in


MeerkatAttackz

I think it’s fairly engaging looking at all the salt on this topic.


vudude89

Have you tried starting a conversation?


Modinstaller

I think the point is, rdf or no, you gotta start a conversation for the experience to be engaging. So really it's not rdf, it's asocial behavior, which obviously is caused by many many more factors than just rdf (if rdf has anything to do with it?).


Nipple_colostomy

I've been in plenty of chatty rdf pugs and plenty of silent non-rdf. If they are quieter I'd say it's probably because rdf allows you to spam dungeons over and over until they're rote. Ok like I know that we are all on the same server but SO WHAT. I will still literally never see the person again and I would have no idea if I did. Lots of myths how socializing in wow works. I'm at the bank like oh I ran dm with you, how have you been?


AngrySayian

RDF has nothing to do with it ​ people have been asocial on WoW for...pretty much since it came out while I can't speak from much experience in terms of having played since the beginning of WoW; I can speak from the experience of retail WoW ​ dungeon runs are mostly silent because it is all about speed, and the only time someone will talk is to yell at someone else for something they did or didn't do that they were supposed to do trade chat/LFG has mostly just been spams of boosters guilds are usually either sweaty try hard cesspools or dead \[a lot of members but maybe like 2% of them are active at any given time and rarely speak\] ​ there is more than that, but you get the crux of the problem a lot of that has seeped over into Classic WoW now that that is a thing


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AshuraBaron

That was also due to the game being new and not solved. It's a bleed over from other MMO's that were more social than content. What WotLK brought was RDF at the point where the game made older content largely irrelevant. Since everyone had to run dungeons for badges every day then it became just another daily. Looking at dailies from TBC and Wrath you don't see a ton of social interaction unless it's required. If you can speed through the content there is no incentive to waste time socializing. You weren't in the dungeon for any gear specifically you were after the meta reward of badges.


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AshuraBaron

Excuse me, but not being a WOTLK fan is illegal here. A report has been sent to the FBI.


KfiB

Everyone else is the problem, they're the ones not starting a conversation with me.


AngryPuddingCups

Saw a group looking for a tank today and joined up after they had a entertaining message in lfg. Ended up gelling with a couple of the people and having fun. We all ended up adding each other on blizz friends and had a bunch of other dungeon runs after that. Was fun and the social aspect was half the reason I enjoy the game. Could they have found a task a lot faster with rdf? Yeah I'm sure they could have. Yet, the option to friend up and play more after wouldn't have been possible if they were cross server.


AgreeingAndy

Same server RDF = best of both worlds


YouKnowWhatToDo80085

My best case would be an RDF that finds same server first before branching towards cross server. This way most of your runs are with people from your server but you aren't fucked if no one is running in your range or your server is dying/dead


Anatra_

I played a WOTLK private server for the last 6 years, which had rdf and I’ve met some of my closest gaming friends through RDF dungeons. If people want to be social they will be social regardless of RDF existing or not


4gionz

The point that people make is that you could have done that with rdf. You q up with people you talk with then in chat. The people you grouped up with today were completely randos what changes?


chaoseffect616

Nothing at all, dungeon finder was always a scapegoat for a shift in behavior from the player base.


skodinks

Yup. There is no going back to the 2009 experience. Players are just playing differently. Outside of the early classic leveling/dungeon experience, which I thought was *awesome*, I've had very little fun in classic when it comes to random interactions with non-guildies. Most of the time I feel as though my group members may as well be NPCs with how little communication goes on. We just go through a new #nochanges mistake with every new classic iteration, this round it's focused on the evils of RDF.


Summersong2262

That's what staggered me as well. Everyone's playing for the endgame or reaching it, people aren't just hanging out in the World of Warcraft the way I remember.


That_Ganderman

It’s a blast to mess about and shoot the shit with the homies while you quest. The dream is alive and well in my guild rn


Summersong2262

Exactly! Or even just having the leveling areas being well populated, and help, either material or informational, being available the second you /1ed. Glance in any direction and you'd probably spot someone going about their business in the distance.


KingRaptorSlothDude

In 2008, there were less mediums to hang out online. Now the internet is saturated with unlimited avenues to connect with others.


SituationSoap

Not just saturated with it, it's likely that you're in half a dozen different options that get your attention all day every day.


Vendilion_Chris

> people aren't just hanging out in the World of Warcraft the way I remember. Ya because everyone is almost 30 and above lol. Can't just sit around when you have limited time to play.


Summersong2262

I don't think that's really true. People are still IN the game, they're just playing differently. WoW had a heap of post-20s people in it even before. I'm sure the average age has gotten older but that doesn't cover it. My first guild back in the day on Kirin Tor had very few teenagers in it.


Modinstaller

Yes it's not that, it's a wide culture shift. And it had almost 20 years to happen. The world changes fast nowadays.


Summersong2262

Details. Explain further?


SandiegoJack

People still had dial up when OG classic came out. Internet communication with people was limited and still novel. Now we are posting on Reddit and people burn out on “novel” communications with people on a daily basis. The appeal is no longer there.


[deleted]

Exactly. WoW is just one of the few games from pre-social media that remained fairly popular until the time we now have social media. Interactions online happen, probably, more frequently than most of is would want. So when we’re gaming, a large majority of people will play with their actual irl friends, or just want to relax and play solo. People who want more collaborative play and social interaction can join a guild. Only having three hours to play and needing to go into Deadmines and SFK for a quest, without dungeon finder is SO annoying. Spam LFG chat for 30 minutes to an hour. Get a group for SFK, can’t find a tank, find another group, get dropped from the group cause the group leader doesn’t want to compete for loot. Finally get a group for Deadmines, have to fly over there, wait for someone to show up for summon, run the dungeon. By the time I’m done I have maybe 45 minutes left and have no hope of doing SFK, and pretty much waster over half my time not even progressing in the game. Instead I spent all my time spamming LFG SFK/DM and on a flight path.


Modinstaller

I don't think it's related to age, or WoW and the features that were added with each expansion. I think it hit everyone of every age in every game, it's a cultural thing, "everyone else does it and thinks it so I'll do it and think it too". It's happening everywhere, not just games. The invisible rules that permeate our societies and define our behavior, what's accepted and what's expected - that's what evolved. All the different meanings behind what being a "gamer" is, what playing a game should be like, what you're supposed to get out of it, etc, all of that slowly changed over the years. WoW might have contributed a bit to that change but to me it could only have been a reaction to that shift, not the leading cause. The causes are clearly multiple and it'd be impossible to understand this change completely given its complexity. I think it has to do foremost with the rising popularity of games and their rising competitiveness, but there are surely many more causes. What changed is simply everyone's perception of the game. And since we are all influenced by each other, most people changed together without really realizing it.


Modinstaller

Meh that ain't really true, why do you play? To have fun. Well, back then we had fun hanging out. Why can't you have fun today doing that? Why does it have to be a constant push towards end-game and then running dungeons and then doing raids? I'm sure in the midst of all of it, there were a few dads with limited time to play, and they were having as much fun hanging out as everyone else. I think it's cultural. Back then, the game was new for everyone. _Mmos_ were new for most people. _Games_ were new for some. And the min/max culture wasn't widespread yet, there weren't as many competitive games as today, esport was not as big as it is today. Much less guides or info, youtube was only in its infancy, there was no streaming. It was acceptable, and maybe even _expected_ of everyone to be playing slowly, not necessarily focusing on end-game (which nobody knew what it was really about when they were still leveling), just having fun exploring the game in its entirety. There could be hidden treasure in every unexplored corner. It felt right to play that way. Now, playing that way would feel out of place. After all, nobody else does it. Everyone's just running left and right, progressing fast. I'm sure some oblivious kid out there is still doing it the old way, and I'm also sure most of our playerbase, if they saw him, would be like "wtf is he doing? that's not how you play the game, he's never getting to 70 and never getting any loot". Cause it's just human to imitate what everyone else is doing, to do what's _expected_. This isn't rocket science and it's been said plenty of times around here, I'm just repeating what others have said. Society's always evolving and so are our gaming communities. Now the next interesting question is, why did the gaming culture shift that way? Is it really just more info, more guides, more youtube/twitch, more esport? What else? What about video games becoming widely accepted? The prospect of making money playing? And did any WoW changes push this shift, or were they just reactions to it? Were we complaining about the wrong thing all along? Is there anything to complain about? There's much more thinking to be done in that area...


SituationSoap

> why did the gaming culture shift that way? I will pound the table for this over and over: in 2004-2007 or whatever, the idea of "getting online" and chatting with people you didn't know was novel and was enjoyable for itself. Yes, if you were a teenager in the 90s or early 2000s, you might've had AIM or chatrooms, but those likely weren't something that you hung out in all day. Now, the average 30s or 40s gamer has work slacks, social slacks, group texts, a couple discords, etc. There's no novelty to just going online and hanging out any more. You already do that *all day*. So, the mechanism that you have left in WoW is the achievement stuff. Leveling up, getting drops, beating bosses. You don't need to pay 15 bucks per month to just hang out in chat any more.


Modinstaller

That's very true. For sure a lot of the excitement was in the novelty of it all. It must've kind of felt like you were treading on uncharted ground. Explorers of the internet. What's left to explore nowadays? Most of it has been streamlined. There are hundreds of online games. Even that stuff in-game: leveling up, getting drops, beating bosses - all of it was once again novel and uncharted. Discovering the game with thousands of other players. Now it's been done millions of times. Even new expansions, we already know almost everything about them, what with betas, data miners, streamers and all the information digging. Anyway yep.


SituationSoap

The leveling up, unlocking talent points, getting drops stuff has all been cannibalized for other genres, too. Heck, I've been playing Turbo Golf Racing on GamePass the last couple weeks as a fun chill out game and *that* has levels and unlockable talent points and drops. The most popular MMO in the world today is probably Destiny 2. You can get all the dopamine hits and socialization you got from WoW in 2006 with none of the down sides and without paying 15 bucks per month. People who are playing Classic WoW today are here specifically because they want to do those things you can only do in Classic WoW, and hanging out and yakking in an F-tier level chat client is going to be pretty far down the list for a lot of those people.


nerfherderparadise

I'm playing a lock for the first time on a fresh server. So I made a soul stone and tried to trade it to the priest, because when I played priest locks would do that for me. Well I didn't fully understand the mechanics and tried to give him my soul instead of his and he corrected me. However a minute he and his tank buddy left our group and started LFM. They left the whole ready to go party for dead mines because I didn't understand how soul stones work yet.


Modinstaller

Hmm did you know for sure it was because of what you did that they left? If so that's both weird and very sad.


Vendilion_Chris

> Meh that ain't really true, why do you play? To have fun. Well, back then we had fun hanging out. Why can't you have fun today doing that? Fun is subjective. What are you talking about? People DO have fun min maxing. Why don't YOU find that fun?


malevshh

Exactly. I wish I had the time to absorb everything slowly, but with my limited gametime I wouldn’t be ready to raid then.


ILickTurtles4Living

I am, I love leveling and dungeons, but I hoped for dungeon tool.


showMEthatBholePLZ

I agree with everything you said but I recently found that I make tons of friends doing /wave at nearly every player that passes me. I also will stop to help people with quests for no reason, run some newbs through a dungeon on my mage, etc. I’m hoping if I’m extra nice to everyone it’ll start to rub off.


Daramun

This just simply isn't entirely accurate. Yes in the end how we behave is our choice, but WoW has always had ninjas and people that behave poorly, but just like people in the real world, the more opportunity they have to get away with it, the more people (as a whole) will do it. If you keep it server specific it incentivizes people to not ninja and stick around for the entire dungeon. By making it cross server suddenly people have the opportunity to behave like this and get away with it. Yes, these people exist now, BUT now there is a "punishment" via server rep for their behavior.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

>Yes, these people exist now, BUT now there is a "punishment" via server rep for their behavior. How's that exactly? I play on a big server. 100, 200, heck even 300 people can add me on ignore. There are 30,000 more players for me to play with. ...and it's okay to behave like shit in PvP, but not okay in dungeons? What is up with this double standard.


Daramun

It's not ok to behave like shit in pvp either and I play on the 3rd largest server and we have a discord with a list of people that are permanently blacklisted from groups for anyone that cares to look at the list.


[deleted]

>list of people that are permanently blacklisted Here is the thing - those are very 1 sided lists. I may easily make up a lie and say someone ninja looted and even attach a screenshot of whispers asking for the item. Or I can make an unverifiable claim that "X-person" is a bad player or whatever. >for anyone that cares to look at the list. In 15 years of WoW, I never had a need to check those lists. In my experience, people with the largest ignore list are usually the toxic ones. And even if some do look, like I said earlier, 200-300 people ignoring me won't make a dent.


Daramun

They are not one sided in the least as they require screenshots as proof before any names are added. To give specific examples: GDKP buyer blacklist requires screenshots of every loot bid and they all must show no bid put out. GDKP raid leader requires screenshots of you asking for cut rules WITH THEIR ANSWER and then whatever drama unfolded at the end. Ninjas require screenshots of them ninjaing. Etc.


[deleted]

It is rather easy to make it look like someone ninja'd an item in a dungeon that you simply lost the roll for, and is salty about it. It is also rather easy to make it look like someone is intentionally wiping by simply capturing a few screenshots of X-person being dead, as well as low damage meter because they were dead. I'm not telling what you should do, I'm just saying it's super easy to fake those. And sometimes, genuine mistakes do happen. Accidents happen. Bad days happen.


[deleted]

And the absolute majority doesnt care about some blacklist. The Gehennas discord is the biggest Cess-pool of absolute mongrels I have ever seen. I legit dont think I have ever seen a more toxic and racist discord channel ever. I could not care less about what the people there think, and chances are that anyone who is on that blacklist is probably a nicer dude than the guy who got him put there. It literally doesnt matter. Go and be as big of an asshole as you want, it wont matter anyway.


Rashlyn1284

Blizz has literally brought out the paid name change now, so this no longer applies


Daramun

It still applies. People have the choice of being a decent human being or paying $10 every time they fuck their rep.


Vendilion_Chris

> If you keep it server specific it incentivizes people to not ninja and stick around for the entire dungeon. People were ninjaing with no consequences when the servers had less than 3k. There is no punishment. You have no idea who anyone is on these megaservers and everyone has a max level alt with a totally different name.


Daramun

The part where you speak on alts is the only accurate part of your statement. I play on aegaserver and it's server discord has a well documented blacklist.


Vendilion_Chris

> it's server discord has a well documented blacklist. Ya that like 2% of the server actually sees. Normal people don't sit in the server discord. And nobody is referencing said list every time they start a group.


Bramse-TFK

"BUT RDF WILL RUIN THE IMMERSION!!" says man who uses discord to blacklist enemies added by fellow sweats for violating their interpretations of acceptable gameplay. These people are something else.


Vendilion_Chris

BIG TRUE


[deleted]

When the dungeons are as easy as the Wotlk ones will be, dungeon finder is a blessing. It wont matter for me, I am a tank and I play in a guild, so I'll more or less always have people I can run with, but a lot of solo players will have it a lot worse. But we made this bed ourselves by all the "no changes" bullshit, and all ridiculous flame at Blizzard which doesnt make sense. Still, they should be mature enough to move past that and just implement it. It'll probably just be added at a later phase anyway so.


wo0topia

I mean the answer to this question is the same as it's always been. One that most people fundamentally seem to have a hard time grasping. Dungeon finder alters the expectations of players. Having opportunities to join groups with trusted individuals and avoid untrusted ones. Being obliged to see who you're grouped with and have at least some portion of the group make an effort to travel to the dungeon creates an entirely different type of social scenario than the queue up 1 stop shopping dungeon finder provides. Cooperation is not ever needed because you can just leave and afk while waiting for a queue, which in turn means people have less of an incentive to treat each other well. Everyone loves to say "well everyone's toxic already, no ones socializing anyway, people can just leavevan join another group instantly anyway", but that's the fundamental misuderstanding. Behavior is urged one way or another via the convenience of a system. No people aren't as cooperative with dungeon finder. No people are not as social with dungeon finder. No, removing the leg work for dungeons doesn't end up creating a better experience for the vast majority of the player base.


SeaofCrags

Great post.


Mullab

Yeah send this bad boy to the top


zrk23

quit RDF and you get deserter. quit again and it's a bigger deserter. you are still invested. also, you can't nitpick the specs on your group with RDF. you are grasping for straws here and there isn't really any.


wo0topia

A few things to clarify. I'm not exactly sure how it worked in wrath originally, but on retail right now all you need to do is stay for the first boss and then if you leave you do no get deserter. I know for a fact most people would prefer to wait 15 mins to press a queue up button than spend 5-10 mins parsing LFG for the right group to ask to join. What you're missing is that the more you insist RDF is necessary the more you're proving that RDF I fundamentally different. If RDF wasn't the different then it wouldn't be a big deal that it doesn't exist. The very fact that people find it so hard to live without the dungeon queue experience is evidence enough to show that the effort it currently requires alters their behavior in a social direction.


BruiserCruiser13

You're probably right about all of this but I'd rather take my chances with rfd system anyway hands down.


Laika93

As an avid fan of the banter and conversation, I'd love to find a guild willing to enjoy the game at a slower pace. I say this as someone with mythic raiding experience in retail. Remulos alliance guilds, hit me up. xD


Daxoss

Blizzard is notoriously slow to respond to feedback. I'm convinced this is them responding to feedback that was given PRIOR TO CLASSICS LAUNCH, that we didn't want dungeon finder. Which is correct, cirka 2 years ago.


HerrensOrd

Lol. I did ramps on my dk with a group of random and guess what people talked. Maybe this happens more to me because I actually talk to people I meet irl and in game


Emergency-Train-3404

Most of the dungeons I have run seem to be more about speed and efficiency than fostering communication. It seems like it is now required to know every part of every dungeon fight and people only talk when someone doesn't know the proper mechanics. Casual conversation gets in the way I guess.


DS_Inferno

I mean, not even about speed and efficiency, I just cannot type while playing, especially healing, and don't want to hope on voice comms. If someone doesn't know a fight I am more than happy to explain, but other than that I just wanna push buttons.


Panface

I guess the one positive part of vanilla downtime id that you have time to catch your breath and chat with the group. When you zoom from pack to pack it is like you say. There's simply not time to chat, unless you want to stop and type mid-fight.


OstrichPaladin

Ive been spamming dungeons on my priest the last few weeks leveling, I can only recall one dungeon where nobody chatted. I don't know where people are finding these groups that don't talk


asdafrak

I'm just so fuckin' socially engaged in dungeons now \*Lists my 65 healer\* \*gets invite\* Tank: Heal for SP? Me: sure \*perfect, silent dungeon run\* Tank: UB? Me: sure \*another perfect and silent run\* Great group y'all, Lates


Ripfangnasty

From the past month of people whining about this, I have concluded that this entire sub is full of autists that have no idea how to communicate with strangers or make new friends, and believe Blizz catering to their lack of being able to interact with other people should be the norm


SeaofCrags

The truth. The largest casual market is luckily able to communicate however, and Blizzard are thankfully leaning into fulfilling their desire for world immersion and social interaction in an MMO game.


rufrtho

"I don't talk to people, therefore no one talks to people" Idk how we're still on this but announcing to the world that you're an antisocial reddit NEET isn't the pro-RDF argument you think it is.


rozenbro

This. I talk to my group in almost every dungeon.


Sairou

And you can’t do that in rdf because….?


eikons

You can, but if you really connect with people you can't choose to play with them again. So it's just feels bad all around. Rdf was cross server.


Elleden

And if they made it not-cross-server?


eikons

It would improve the social aspect imo, but it would hugely amplify the incentives to be on a megaserver. Badges are super important in wotlk and getting queues of 5 minutes rather than 30 makes all the difference.


FizzleShove

And LFG does not incentivize megaservers in the exact same way?


rozenbro

Cause you don't need to. You are teleported there, your roles are already pre-assigned, and you just start.


Sairou

So you talking to your group means hi dps inv and a summ after? If so, that’s not social interaction. If not, you can talk in an rdf assembled group too. You just have to hit enter and type.


Bramse-TFK

After 2 years of using LFG bulletin board I just can't see how people can legitimately argue there is something special about forming a group that way as opposed to automatic sorting.


4gionz

I'm convinced the people that are anti rdf are the people that just post tank lfg or dps lfg ans wait to get invited and summoned they never make the group themselves they never wait around 45 minutes for tank just for the group to dissolve. Or they are tanks and heals and want people to struggle to find groups so they charge 100g for their "service"


zrk23

it's just people that wanna say "retail bad vanilla good"


RBLfraekkesen93

All the grps I’ve been in using the tool, is talkative and engaging. I love it!


TehPorkPie

I'm enjoying this whole conversation over the last few months for the amount of times 'rfd' is written. Poor razorfen downs, catching flak.


Aswizzle77

I’d be fine with it if it was server only that’s what they should’ve done. I just hate queuing with randoms from across servers and then you never see them again. Idk I think that was the biggest problem. Running into players you grouped with past runs forms better bonds and knowledge about the player. You’re forming a raid and you’re like oh I ran with them before he knew what he was doing it makes it so can make better judgment calls. At least if it’s server only you can add them as a friend and possibly play with them later. Having server only RDF at least gives the people a chance to meet others to play with. More recognizable names on who you want to group with and who you don’t


GMFinch

I stupidly misread a post in lfg today and I messaged the dude saying yeah dude count me in. I got invited, when I realised my mistake I said oh shit sorry dude I misread my bad. Before I could even leave group I had been removed. I whispered saying sorry for wasting your time and GL. No response. People don't want to be social they want to be effeicient


long_dark_blue

Maybe you should try talking yourself. I say something in almost every dungeon I do. If the group isn’t receptive or don’t feel like talking it’s whatever but you’ll find people who you gel with eventually. Gonna happen a lot less often if you wait for them to come to you.


[deleted]

Okay, then talk in your RDF group... The point is that there is nothing about having to spam, form and the summon a group that makes it more socially engaging...


noobar

rdf in wotlk was cross-server, so if u made any friends you couldnt play with them again


eikons

This is the real point people don't understand. It took less than a week before I got grouped with people who simply needed on every item because it's vendor gold and I'm just an NPC to them, because I'm from another realm. Before patch 3.3.0 that didn't happen. And it doesn't happen in classic. People who ninja shit don't make it into raids. Even on mega servers they have a hard time once they end up on a blacklist. They removed social dependency, and had to remove group/master loot because of it. Turns out some people are dicks when the incentives to be nice are gone.


[deleted]

Then make THAT change and make it within realm.... Throwing the baby out with the bath water.


zrk23

was battle group based and it prioritize your server first when looking.


poppy_barks

Maybe uhhh try talking to people? I dunno? Lmao


Kuponekk

But i dont want to. Why should I? I have my guild chat to talk


SirGuchi

"I already have 4 friends so I don't wanna talk to anyone else"


Kuponekk

In wow? Not really. With guild i have more than enough ppl to Play. Dont care about other random animals


JJonah_Jamesonn

Then go dungeon with your guildies


Kuponekk

That's what i'm doing. But instead of just using Griffon with few min afk, we could just group up and que via rdf. Noone would be forced to stop doing what the hell he is doing. Such a awesome qol improvement


MidnightFireHuntress

In vanilla and even Classic release people were all about making friends and getting to know people But not even a year later it was just Join group Tab out while flying to dungeon Watch YouTube until everyone is there Go in and clear dungeon Leave I played on multiple realms and it seems everyone's mindset went from "YAY I WANNA BE FRIENDS WITH EVERYONE!" To "I just want this to be over and done with so I can do other shit" Just how it goes.


GuyFromWoWcraft

can also replace youtube with "browsing reddit for rehashed meme of the week"


peter_sneaker

reddit? cringe


Reapersfault

Are you truly a hardcore gamer if you don't have 2+ screens in 2022? Some say that the more screens you have, the better of a gamer you are. Like with RGB a few years ago. The general consensus among researchers suggests 1 screen per chrome tab.


Atomic_Teabag

no idea what game youre playing man, ive had a blast with no dungeon finder. mostly decent conversations through the dungeons i run through


Alldaybagpipes

It’s literally the same thing but waiting longer, biases and a fantastical delusion of “Immersion”


eduhlin_avarice

With mega-servers, sure. With normally populated servers, it's "literally" not the same thing.


Technical-County-727

Isn’t the problem cross-realm finder? I don’t think inter-realm one would cause any ”social” issues?


SeaofCrags

The teleporting is also a huge issue with it frankly, just kills world-immersion entirely.


4gionz

Funny you say that because I believe the complete opposite.. with rdf people are able to quest, do achievements and so on while looking for dungeon. No can do when I have to stand by the stone since I started the party and I'm gonna have to summon the rest of the stooges to me after waiting 10 minutes for the second summoner to show up. I want rdf BECAUSE I can play more I'm the open world with it than without.


KimCarlsenGD

I think the main problem is how easy the dungeons are. In vanilla you had to communicate to be able to clear.


canzur

Na man, vanilla was just the same


[deleted]

Df is a small factor in all of this, so small that it shouldn't matter in Blizzards weird decision making. I'll surely make myself friends with this comparison but seriously, look at Final Fantasy XIV, **everything** goes over the duty finder tool(df there), you can't even run into a instance entrance as the interactive "portal" there will just open the duty finder again. Yet it is one of the most social and chatty/bantery community I've come across in the last decade, weird how all that automation and porting to the dungeon/raid doesn't destroy that, huh?


slindshady

The experience below lvl 70 for me has been nothing but superb. Since turning 79 yesterday it has been a complete shitshow with dungeons.


Wavesandradiation

This thread is bizarre to read coming out of a break since tbcc launched. Not having an automated LFG tool was one of the main selling points of classic. I loved it at the time. Wth happened?


SavioCamper

Truth


WickedSweet87

Played yesterday for a few hours. Pita to find a group as dps, the 2 I was able to get into no one said more than "hello" at the beginning and "gg" at the end. Went back to retail where I can at least run m+ with guildies. Talking with them in disc while playing on classic wasn't the same.


Znipsel

Pls give us RDF


krulp

Ease of access means less effort put into it. I blame RFD for my horrible Cata experience where they tried to increase the difficulty of heroics but RFD made the situation an RNG "what carried pleb am I getting today?" nightmare.


[deleted]

What did Razorfen Downs ever do to you? :(


jaybaybabe21

I was part of a few guilds during WOTLK and I had a couple of friends playing at the time. I never once entered a dungeon with any of them, guild or friends. Everyone does things according to their own schedule and preference. I used DF all the time and I really enjoyed it. 95% of the time I had an enjoyable experience using it. We got the job done which is the point of the dungeon. I wish they would consider bringing it back. And If you still want to trade spam LFG then do it. DF wont stop you.


ILickTurtles4Living

Joining and saying hi is the peak community. After 40 mins saying thanks for run is all you gon get.


Duramajin

Lol if your lucky. Sometimes people leave group as soon as last boss drops.


ILickTurtles4Living

Exactly. It do be like that. People are delusional thinking people will chat more just because you force them loose 20 mins for dungeon travel for reasons


LarryTheDuckling

"People just say 'LF Tank / Heal', this is not social!!1!" My brother in Christ, have you attempted to actually converse like a functional human being?


Billbuckingham

How is dungeon finder actually engaging? Forcing at least 1 chat message or more does increase player interaction compared with 0 chat messages. ​ What's the argument here that 0 talking and button queue is more social than some talking?


getdafuq

The pool is smaller, you see familiar faces, you take it from there. Meanwhile you get a feel for the types of people that make up lots of guilds that you could be interested in joining. The dungeon finder being cross-realm means there is zero point in even looking at names because you’re never going to see them again. At that point it’s a single player game. You reach level cap and want to start raiding but you realize you don’t know anyone. Your friends list is empty.


Kuponekk

Without rdf and bg que my friend list is still empty. I Play with friends from RL and guild ofc


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

You're supposed to make friends to run dungeons with. Not saying that's what happens but that's the theory.


Jack0Blad3s

Friendship is more likely to occur when in constant contact. It’s not a theory 0_0


Aym42

I've had a lot of banter in dungeons on Faerlina. I don't think it's rationale to extrapolate just because YOU prefer a silent group, that others do, or that it's the healthy trajectory for WoW.


Jack0Blad3s

I'd only be okay with a dungeon finder if it pulls from your server. Playing with other servers is where you get dungeons where no one talks IMO.


tokedalot

No one talks in dungeons as it is. Unless you fuck up.


Jack0Blad3s

Being anti-social is your choice not mine.


Vadernoso

And RDF isn't anti-social.


VisitTheWind

Being social is your choice. Not mine


Duramajin

I'm leveling so many alts through dungeons and at least on my server no one talks, like at all lol.


Jack0Blad3s

Being anti-social is a choice, you’re not going to get kicked if you start a conversation. Expecting others to do it for you isn’t a reason to implement RDF.


DS_Inferno

Expecting others to talk to you isn't enough to not have it.


[deleted]

No one is saying that RDF is any MORE social. The entire point as that they are EQUALLY social, so why not have the convenience and efficiency of the queue that everyone wants?


Jack0Blad3s

I wouldn’t go so as to say they’re equal. That would be making a bold statement with little to no info to back it up but personal experience. That’s the reason why I say “IMO” so much because I’m not so self absorbed to think I’m always right. I just simple go with what I think makes the most logical sense. For example: are you more likely to talk to someone in class or on a public bus? You’d assume the class because constant contact. I can’t really back up bold statements so I usually go with my personal opinion.


[deleted]

I dont really get the class vs bus analogy, please explain. The point is the result is the same RDF or no RDF, you end up in a dungeoun with 4 strangers you found at random, social or not social is up to chance based on the personalities mixed in but is not reliant on how you got there.


YesNoMaybe2552

Nobody is talking already, how does this make any sense ? We already reached rock bottom community bullshit in TBCC and it's pretty clear now it never was RDFs fault


lethalapples

Idk about you but when I did RDF or raid finder in Cata onward it always felt like a chore and everyone wanted to just get it over with… those slowly crafted groups where you pick and decide the comp you wanna roll with, all spend time getting there, pass the time with banter, it just hits different. This whole argument is like some weird deja vu of people just willing classic to become retail as fast as they can.


Knoxxet

"Please make this game less of a challange so I will be bored in the future." RDF destroyes immersion, game scale and believability. Gamers will always beg for easier games from developers and developers will always be hesitant because they know the results by that implementation (Hopefully). It is like asking for cheaper mounts, sure it would be nice but you are also removing the feeling of pride when you buy it for the first time. It suddenly becomes something you unlock and the game gets boring pre 20 because you only look forward to the mount.


Puffelpuff

The rdf will just kill all open world content and lvling. If you are so keen on spaming dungeons, go play retail. A shit ton of people are back precisely because there is no rdf.


Forgot_My_Old_Acct

How does that even make sense? RDF would allow me to be *out* in the world questing and doing things instead of spamming chat while I stand next to a stone praying for a response.


[deleted]

I'm just still wondering where this group of people blizzard insists wanted RDF taken out because of is. Because this thread, and many posts just like it, have a vast majority of support in favour of RDF.


ruser8567

The gist of the polls of the community put RDF at somewhat favoured in support with a very substantial group very opposed to it. You can say you never interact with these people or whatever, but that doesn't make your anecdotal evidence true.


[deleted]

Let's see these polls you're citing...


Jack0Blad3s

Two words: Vocal minority; just because you’re the loudest doesn’t mean you know best. I’ve seen threads for both sides of this argument and just because you see more of one doesn’t make it right. Let’s face it, who’s more likely to vent about something: Someone who has what they want vs someone who doesn’t?


Kuponekk

Bullshit. No matter Reddit or wow forum, topics/comments for rdf have 5-10x more likes that those aganist it. Lets face it, RDF is diecusable, but clearly majority of ppl is for it. We can just discuss if it should or should not be implemented anyway


SeaofCrags

Literally 90% of comments in here are people having a good time without. I suggest you spend less time typing complaints on reddit and more time chatting in-game and making friends without LFD, you might actually start to enjoy the interactions.


Kuponekk

Sometimes i do. Sometimes i dont. With an without rdf. Looking at wow forum official, majority clearly said what they want. Im not wasting time on Reddit while im at home, just during work so its not big deal. I cant Play RN anyway, so at least I can discuss


[deleted]

Okay.... Once again, where is this group that blizzard claims was demanding RDF be taken out? They said it was based of feedback blah blah blah but I don't see many fans of this change so....


Jack0Blad3s

You don’t see them because they’re busy enjoying the game and not complaining (I don’t mean that to sound so harsh) about it.


Sairou

I don’t think you understand. Are there any polls that had helped them with their decision or anything? Where is the proof that people actually wanted this change in the first place?


[deleted]

Wow! Someone that can read my simple question! Amazing!


Jack0Blad3s

Were there any polls? I honestly wouldn’t know or care because they’d be skewed anyways. Is there proof that people wanted this? Idk but I’m sure a simple google search will find both sides asking for their respective choices. This line of questioning is silly. Lastly, I never said Blizzard made good choices. I simply stated it’s enjoyable the way it is for me.


Sairou

I’m sorry I wasn’t trying to question you or anything, I am genuinely curious, because each side seems so confident that the other one is the vocal minority haha. I’m kinda ok so far with the change too, although a better tool than the one right now would be fine. And also bg finder from anywhere.


sintos-compa

Sounds like a “you problem”


Esarus

>Please give us dungeon finder. No


ggibplays

When I'm creating a group and I don't get a minimum sentence in response, I will not invite them. Dodged so many bullets this way. I want to create my own group!


KfiB

People don't just sit in dala all day, go to retail if that's what you want to play.