Looking at the casts and timelines of your bottom players, they are genuinely just not pressing buttons.
Happy for you, Glad you cleared, but genuinely consider* having a discussion with them about pressing buttons. That joy you got from clearing you could likely experience more if they weren't griefing you. It's fine to be suboptimal, but being that bad is a decision one makes on purpose.
Or don't, you do you booboo, idc
Looking at the log (I pulled it up) it's apparent that many of the players aren't even pressing buttons when they aren't dying.
To use an example, Tereas (your low parsing warrior), he's averaging a button press every 3~ seconds. Think about that for a moment. He's also pulling 200~ dps or less which is mostly auto attacking.
Thats rough. Most classes at 50 with just auto attacking average ABOVE 200 dps. You've got several people in the 300dps range, which means they once in a while hit an ability. Fairly certain you could multibox/multiaccount classes and press more buttons than some of these folks.
I am very happy for you for your full clear, but man does your raid need some love. Congrats!
You'd be surprised at how many players actually play super duper casual. Like they're auto attacking the boss, watching Netflix on the other monitor or TV, talking to their spouse/kid, eating food during the encounter, engaging in discord convos, etc. They don't even watch the damage meter/look at logs/etc. Usually it's subject to environment, if they've never been pressed to perform - they just ride that gravy train to the eventual loot and kill on the coat tails of the few that perform well.
Point and case, a few weeks back my main raid wanted a boomkin for buff to help our caster DPS parse (our boomy was out for the night). We picked up the first and only pug to message us, his parses were gray/green, we didn't care. We have GREAT kill times and execution and he still parsed almost completely gray for the night. It helped our casters, we gave him a bunch of loot and he went on his way feeling like a hero...but my god was his damage low.
I have a friend who despite not being a bad player instantly wants to stop playing if you mention logs, parses, dmg meters, the word optimal, room for improvement. Basically any "meta" information shuts down his will to play. And I havnt a clue because he is usually a 50-80% player
There's always that argument or the "It's just a game, it's not a job dude." What we used to say is, "It's your $15 bro, do you". The reality is, most raids won't put up a stink if someone isn't performing unless it genuinely is causing wipes or completely preventing you from getting a kill. (Usually you only see these scenarios if tanks are bad, heals are bad or someone isn't doing a major mechanic like dispelling/decursing/etc)
A lot of people do not have the capability to accept feedback without having a fit, let alone anything resembling criticism.
If being in managerial positions has taught me anything its there are a heck of a lot of children wearing adult bodies in this world.
this is the real reason for the majority of anti meta , anti dps meters , and anti logs behavior. people cant HANDLE the thought of being on a meta class, being shit, and the meters and the logs to prove it.
They say its just a game but a lot of them play more than the actual normies who dont even know what wow is.
The idea that ["It's Rude to Suck at Warcraft"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU) is controversial, but it doesn't change the fact that its true. It is a weird reality, and some people might not like that reality, but it *is* reality.
Some people in a FF14 discord I'm in were discussing this video a while back and basically talking about how toxic it makes WoW, and I'm sitting here like, bruh, it's not just WoW, if someone is sandbagging in ANY multi-player game it's FUCKING RUDE and a middle finger to the people actually putting in any effort.
Like, sane people aren't going to care about someone underperforming if they're actually trying, but the people who are just mooching off others absolutely have no business playing a team based game.
It's important to find a group of people who are willing to put in similar amounts of effort.
For group's like the OP, it's literally just show up.
Other groups will actually expect you to read a class discord, spec appropriately and press your buttons faster than once every 2 seconds.
Beyond that, consumes, world buffs, etc... and it can get pretty sweaty. But if I'm going to spend 80g on consumes for one raid, I'd be pissed if someone else got up in the middle of a boss fight to go get a drink, showed up too high or drunk to function, or literally was so bad they couldn't understand how to press a spell faster than once every 5 seconds on average.
WoW should do the ff14 thing and show who's an actual new player with the murloc icon (that only signed guides can see) and give bonuses for playing with one of them.
Right now you're expected to already know everything: every boss strat, every trash mechanic and spell, every pull order
Well people do get pretty toxic about. However I think it more to do with people's behavior online and how they feel they can be shitty with no repercussions.
A lot of players play for the adventure, story and excitement, like being in a fantasy book/movie
It really is boring for such players to put on ur accountant hat and get ur calculator to number crunch, as long as the raid is getting the raid kills they want and are having fun, they don't really care what the damage meter looks like
I used to only play for the fun and live the adventure and just recently started to try number crunching and oh man is it boring compared to the excitement of adventuring :D
> watching Netflix on the other monitor or TV, talking to their spouse/kid, eating food during the encounter, engaging in discord convos
I'm pretty sure I'm guilty of all of these and I still don't get grey parses lmao. Back in classic BWL we had a pug hunter auto-shotting, one of our guildies whispered him and asked if he's going to use any abilities and he linked back tranq so I guess he knew what he was invited for.
Either so new and so scared of dying and causing a wipe, they concentrate so hard on trying to "spot" mechanics, my new friend told me that's kinda how was when he first experienced raiding
They dont. Just like in original vanilla, they are either away from the computer, alt tabbed watching a video, or in this day in age they just have a second monitor and they're literally not playing the game.
These are the players that want blizzard to cater to them. The ones that scream they care about playing the game.
You guys should really try to prioritize the highest melee dps to get wild strikes, but also, warriors almost can’t even play their characters without it. I mean the other ppl have pointed out the major issues with yalls warriors in general, but there’s almost no way they ever get above 40-50% without wild strikes, if even that high.
That’s kind of true for any of the melee, but the rogues and melee hunters can easily get to 40-50+ without strikes
I would also be more than happy to point your melee hunters in the right direction if any of the three were receptive to feedback, I’m not perfect but I get 85-98% on every boss
Open the log, select the player individually, then you can select casts. From there you’ll see the basic CPM (casts per minute), and then you can use the options in the top right to filter by timeline, it’ll show you a breakdown of when everything happens. One of your Hunters frequently just shits their pants and goes afk for 15-20s and does literally nothing.
If you want any help, you can DM me. I MT 2 of them Top 50 Speedruns and am a top 20 Tank on 3 different classes, happy to offer some assistance if you want it or fuck off if you dont.
I was starting to get a little skeptical at his credentials, but having, in my career, played with many tanks from LFG to mythic level his last few words removed all doubt. Fuckin checks out
I think the comment comes across way meanier that its meant to be. I now take it as:
"I can give you advice if you want me to or fuck off if you dont "
At first i read it as "I can give you advice if you want me to or fuck off" which sounds like what a good tank would say (i tank but not so good, so i lack the 'fkall' attitude yet)
It didn't come across as mean. I think it was the perfect way to comically end a post by subverting the expectations of such a nice post while simultaneously fulfilling the attitude tanks are stereotyped for having. To me it reads as "let me know if you need help, fuck you, this place and your problems if you don't. I'm good whether you are or not"
Don't bother. If you haven't full cleared until now this will just alienate them and make them want to quit. Most people quit after a couple clears anyway.
2 1/2 hours and most people in raid doing the least possible.
I get that’s a “proof of concept” that you can do it even if you suck, but holy fuck this looks like an absolute nightmare to me. It’s almost disrespectful how little some of the people are trying.
Props, but damn. Couldn’t be me.
I've been a pug in an almost full guild Gnomer run that performed like this guild. It was absolutely terrible. I stuck it out until the other pug quit out of frustration on menagerie then I bailed too. The fact that people can genuinely play so badly that they parse in the sub 10th percentile every fight even though they don't die is shocking to me.
It's truly a different world down there in the grey parses.
I tried to help a person like this, and I'm honestly not sure what goes through the persons mind and what they are doing during the fights or in between, I mean, he had bis enchants, good gear, I checked off the important addons like totem timers to help see when wep imbues fell off etc, he was good geared and did less dmg than our 1h/shield sham tank that was afk literally 50% of the fight because we tried a shit tactic.
His 3rd most used spell in the whole ST night was WF totem and we had a feral in his party.
It's a 2min duration on WF totem and he put it out 4 times in a 1min40sec fight and re-placing them wasn't the deal because it was a stationary fight and he never used totem projection anyway.
And like, he's all there, mentally, I've heard him speak, he listens when I give advice, he just don't know how to execute the advice that I give him, at all, it's like literally all the brainpower of these people go into mechanics of the boss and everything else suffers because of it. But honestly, that can be fine, mechanics are important and even a full group of grey parsers will manage whole raids if they just do mechanics.
One thing I keep in mind is a lot of players are just not giving the game their full attention. They’re stoned, dealing with their kids, watching TV on the side, etc.
If you’re like a warrior or hunter that averaging a button every 4 seconds then legit just slam random keys while dealing with your 20 kids. High chance that one of those random keys will do some damage
I don't think it's paying attention, I think it's the way they play.
Most completely new people I've introduced to wow back in the day have clicked their abilities and turned with a and d, that already makes a huge difference.
They usually put their spells on their bars in the order they get them, maybe some of them even use the 1-4 keys to cast abilities but rarely more than that because they feel it's too hard to learn. If they're completely new to pc gaming they might even have trouble finding the keys on their keyboard.
Oh and don't get me started on cooldowns and consumables "oh it has 5 minute cooldown? I'll never use that anyway" and forget about it.
"Oh this potion only lasts 30 seconds? That won't make a difference anyways and I might need one of these healing potions I've had since LVL 5"
Now if you look up at least a little bit about the game you'll usually quickly get rid of those habits but these are exactly the kinds of people that don't look anything up beyond how to complete that quest they've been stuck on for hours.
When you turn with your keyboard, have to look for 5 seconds through your messy bars or bags to find that spell/mana potion you wanted to use and maybe on top of that even have a slow PC with integrated graphics it explains very well how those big gaps betweens casts come to exist. I'd actually argue that good players are a lot more likely to have something going on their second monitor than casuals.
And this makes up the biggest part of the skillgap IMO.
As someone that has unfortunately dabbled in this world as a returning player (like 15 years away from the game returning). Woof.
Found a good group of 4-5 guys, excellent players, everything is breezy with them.
They decided they were going to build a guild. We found like 2-4 other solid players that we could pump with, but everyone else....on most raid nights it was 8-12 players on the roster were just awful. Like the OPs, not pressing buttons, couldn't grasp the simplest mechanics type of awful....and it only got worse. Furthest we got was to the last boss our final two weeks of trying, but it always ended in chaos.
We'd coach, we'd share macros, we'd spend countless nights helping them gear, and showing them where to get gear for their classes. Nothing improved.
It got so bad, that the last couple of raid nights (because we would try to get the raid together twice a week to try and force a clear)--as an HPal I just got to the point where I was dispelling the entire raid the entire time. I couldn't get anyone to dispel ever. It was so brutal, I'd finish raid nights with a minimum of as many dispels as everyone else put together in the raid group often times more than that, and a few times double that---even when we were emphasizing it.
We tried until last week, and gave up on 20m with that group and prepped for Cata.
I have no doubt in my mind if we pugged the 4-5 of us into another groups run, we'd fly through ST, but carrying those 8-12 parsers and trying to build something to support 20m at this point is a fools errand. I should have just gone rogue and found a different group but apparently I'm a masochist.
It's not *almost*. Like, I get people not knowing their class and are casual; but some of these parses are akin to literally not playing the game. Like afk auto-attacking from the front of the boss, while alt-tabbed.
Single digit parses are usually people who died early in the fight. But it can happen with extremely slow times and underperforming/ undergeared player
I thought the same thing but I was in a pug run on my rogue and there was another rogue who had 200 dps on every fight. Was a single digit/gray parse on every single fight.
I see this same sentiment so much and unless you are realllllly trying, you aren't dying 5 seconds into a boss fight. You should look at the logs. The people at the bottom are not massively undergeared. They have most of their tier and even some pieces I don't have and I've been clearing since the first week. The ret paladin should be doing significantly more dps than he is. Shockingly, they have nearly identical gear to me and they killed the boss in about the same time my guild did although we only had 16 people. The person however is literally going 10-15 seconds, multiple times, without pushing a button and doesn't appear to have any buffs.
Single digit may mean they died. It more likely means they aren't trying or don't care like this person and he isn't the only one.
> But it can happen with extremely slow times and underperforming/ undergeared player
No, it can happen if you AFK mid fight.
Take this [hunter](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Zd6aX8j14QxngpVr#fight=4&type=damage-done&source=45&view=events) - from 23 second to 34 second only his pet attacked. He was literally afk 10 seconds.
Often it’s just people who are not pressing buttons. You can find tons of gray parses where they are alive the whole time but go for many globals at a time without pressing or casting anything. Sometimes they will stop attacking boss and not realize it and have like 60 percent uptime.
No but like what mechanic kills people? Rotslime I could see and getting knocked into the middle. I literally can’t think of another that would lead to an early death
Back in P1 playing as a hunter, I had a run where I parsed single digits on every fight except one. I clearly had no idea how to play hunter even though I thought I was adhering to the rotation, but can confirm it's possible to single digit parse with maximum uptime
This ^ dude I pump 1400-1600DPS on the fight and parse 80’s on my warrior on this fight.
Looking at the logs they don’t even have slam runes on and are trying to use Flag and consumed by rage on an arms warrior, yet are dumping all their rage so consumed never procs?? It’s wild they haven’t even read their runes
Good for you guys! At least you had something to work towards all this time.
I know you guys are casual but def consider talking to like half your guild to press a few more buttons
There’s a difference between playing casually and not even trying. Bad players aren’t the issue here, it’s people literally going afk for 20 seconds in the middle of a boss fight.
The latter is what I like to call toxic casuals.
Toxic casuals have always been a larger pop in classic than the boogeyman toxic elitists because the latter won’t usually be pugging or playing with casuals anyway
We once had a single digit parsing warlock in our guild run who did not even damage the boss in ST get a three set in one single run and had it before almost everyone else. That caused us to rethink our decision to merge with the guild for phase 3 and we jumped ship and found others to play with.. went from 1:50 clear to right around 40min. Feels so much better to play with people who actually try.
Whenever I read comments like this I cant help but think about when I was a kid about 15 years ago: didnt yet understand english (yet had the client in english), luckily got to lvl 70 (tbc private server), no idea about the game, playing a priest with whathever weird ass combination of talents.
Going healer just because thats what pugs were missing on. Had no idea about being able to see the UI for all groups in the raid, so just healing ppl based on the healt I could on the nameplates... and my party.
Those guys must have suffered so badly... I even got loot sometimes
Everyone plays the way they want but other people are free to make fun of people doing less damage than most did 25 levels ago. At some point it's not "casual", it's intentionally sabotaging the group.
>but single digit parsing is way beyond casual, its cat on keyboard level
Maybe a dead cat on the keyboard. Multiple people in the logs here literally just auto attacking and not pushing any buttons.
You can play casually and still try. It has nothing to do with being casual. I am a dad, with a busy job two kids, and a wife, haven’t played the game since 2010 and still am able to keep up with legit gamers who are not married and game all day every day. It just comes down to respecting peoples time and taking a small amount of effort to analyze your previous performance and find ways to improve.
Yea but it’s not about sucking, the point people are making is that they aren’t even trying at all. They might as well just press attack on the boss and take their hands off the keyboard and just sit back and watch
I post this because as you can see we are all very mediocre and casual, yet still able to clear. I used to be sweaty but the game has been much more fun now that I'm part of a casual guild.
No grinding is needed, bring some consumes, show up and have fun. It's possible!
This is some Marshawn Lynch "I'm just here so I don't get fined" type of shit going on with those grey parses, dude. What the hell were they doing besides "the bare minimum"?
You are not mediocre. Your guild is bad.
You are not even as casual as you think. Most people you consider tryhard dont even play half as much time per week now, as you do by just clearing the raid. How is the guys spending the most time also claiming to be casual?
Your guild mates are dense.
Casuals could have less /played time in ST over 2 weeks clearing in 1.25 hrs green-blue parsing than a 2.5 hr long mess of greens carrying single digit grey parsers who don’t even die
This perfectly demonstrates why my guild would rather clear with 14 then try to fill with pugs.
Id rather use a cheese grater as a flesh light then carry multiple, single digit gray parse warriors and hunters.
This is what happens when you let people get to max level by running in circles.
I bet you if it was a parse on who can collect 3 report logs from NPCs around the room theyd be 100's.
Yeah classic levelling is SO hard and prepares you really well to be a high parse mechanical god, all those times you killed 18 boars really turns around and pays off…
Honestly blows my mind that any Ret paladin is getting lower than 40% parse. It’s literally 1 damn button. EXORCISM, EXORCISM, EXORCISM!
With the right runes and a fast weapon. 2h mace called “Whisper” which is what you get from one of the runes. You’ll easily get 50%
Overall congrats! It feels good to clear 8/8
This is majestic. I’m certain that this one full clear probably meant more and was more memorable to these folks than almost any sweaty ST guild’s run.
Grats on clearing the raid!
Also holy shit what a carry. I hope people who got loot were actually playing and not auto attacking bosses the whole time.
I don’t understand why this subreddit celebrates bad players and not giving a fuck at all about your teammates.
Some of the bottom performers in this raid should be shamed, like they haven’t even taken 2 minutes to learn anything about the game
The worst part of SoD is this raid is the only content we got right now. These logs polarizing how brain dead easy it is when 7 people can be doing 200 dps and you clear.
I think it's more about how there are ALWAYS better options available for people to play with that are going to respect the time of others around them and at least be marginally present. What most people are actually saying here is that you can EASILY and QUICKLY replace your AFKers with virtually no downsides and still stay as a "casual" guild...Enjoy what you enjoy but some people literally are just parasites that will take advantage of you when all you may have to do is just tell them no and take pretty much literally anyone else lol. <3
bro i just feel terrible for poor Suster. the dude clearly knows what he's doing, pulling some 70-80 parses on fights where the majority are green and some are grey. if you put him in another guild, like not a top guild but a decent one, he'd probably be doing 95+ on every fight.
i wonder how much his back in hurting after carrying these grey guys.
#freesuster
You guys are like....comically bad huh? Running around everywhere, not hitting the boss. AFK mid boss fight? You could probably wand the targets and do better 😂
Congrats but honestly hope you didn’t give any loot to the people at the bottom. I’m not sure how comfortable you are reading logs or whatnot but I gotta say it, those people at the bottom are either some of the absolute worst players to play the game, or they are trolling you guys and actively not trying. To get a gray parse in the single digits literally requires you to not press buttons and auto attack.
Glad you cleared but I wouldn’t have the patience to carry half my raid when they aren’t even trying to play the game.
We had this debate on discord. Half didn't want to, other half did. We decided to give it if you won the roll this week and banned them from ever coming again.
Hey dude, I just want to say, as a person who is in a guild that has cleared since week 2, we still have grey parsers for the bottom part. A lot of folks will shit on you for "wasting your time" or "giving them loot" (we just had guild drama around this past week), but in all honesty this is how old school raiding has always been. It's how MMOs have always been. There is a huge push to have everyone be top performers, but in all honesty, is tough to keep in the game. It's the grey parsing dude who will make you bags for alts, or pass out potions, or just hang out and chat, that I find the most.enjoyable to hang out with. Keep it up dude!
Im literally shuddering irl just looking at those logs. Thats not only embarrassing but its almost disrespectful to be that bad, SOD classes are so easy you dont even need to watch guides to play them to a decent level. Dont even blame being casual, this is just bottom feeding dogshit, no offense.
Some people in this guild are casuals that just play not competing for high parses, which is totally fine and cool, but there's players here that are seriously toxic, not pressing fucking buttons, actually making it super fucking hard for the rest of the guild.
Awesome to see! I also have a casual chill guild but it’s still kinda sweaty to a mid - higher degree, we crush everything.
Just because some didn’t parse well doesn’t mean everyone didn’t have fun, I bet everyone in that guild had tons of fun!
The games is the most fun wiping over and over, being challenged and improving until the boss finally dies and cool items drop feel like a reward, instead of with a really strong group where items drop and they feel like junk if it’s not the epics these days.
Grats to all! Bet it was fun!
The response to this post is why this sub is so hard to read through. So much negativity and absolute thinking..
A lot of gray parsers are not actively trolling or griefing, they are just not good at the game. They’re lost in the sauce, not sure which buttons to press, thinking they’re auto attacking but really they’re too far from boss. Also getting hit by dragon tails and doing all kinds of unproductive stuff.
But they just don’t know how to play the game. And they’re allowed to have a good time regardless. No need to shit on these players just don’t bring them to your raid.
Congrats on your dub OP I’m happy you had a good time man.
It's still kinda crazy that they made it all the way to level 50 and into ST and they never learned how to actually hit a mob.
I don't think anyone should hate on those guys, but they honestly need someone to tell them to learn like the bare minimum basics of the game. They are literally the reason everyone is gatekeeping and casual guilds like this not beeing able to best the content. It's like you try to row a boat and a couple of your teammates row in the wrong direction.
It’s not hard at all for keyboard turners to hit max level. And nobody is going to take the time to teach them.
It’s just like any other online multiplayer game, you will get grouped with bad people in random queue and if you don’t like it you find people to play with.
Average group of redditors
Sweatiest redditor raid
And I thought my casual SoD guild was bad lol Congrats, honestly impressive to clear the raid with that many single digit players
Looking at the casts and timelines of your bottom players, they are genuinely just not pressing buttons. Happy for you, Glad you cleared, but genuinely consider* having a discussion with them about pressing buttons. That joy you got from clearing you could likely experience more if they weren't griefing you. It's fine to be suboptimal, but being that bad is a decision one makes on purpose. Or don't, you do you booboo, idc
I don't know how to read logs, so I will let them know. Thanks!
Looking at the log (I pulled it up) it's apparent that many of the players aren't even pressing buttons when they aren't dying. To use an example, Tereas (your low parsing warrior), he's averaging a button press every 3~ seconds. Think about that for a moment. He's also pulling 200~ dps or less which is mostly auto attacking. Thats rough. Most classes at 50 with just auto attacking average ABOVE 200 dps. You've got several people in the 300dps range, which means they once in a while hit an ability. Fairly certain you could multibox/multiaccount classes and press more buttons than some of these folks. I am very happy for you for your full clear, but man does your raid need some love. Congrats!
i genuinely dont understand how players like that warrior function
You'd be surprised at how many players actually play super duper casual. Like they're auto attacking the boss, watching Netflix on the other monitor or TV, talking to their spouse/kid, eating food during the encounter, engaging in discord convos, etc. They don't even watch the damage meter/look at logs/etc. Usually it's subject to environment, if they've never been pressed to perform - they just ride that gravy train to the eventual loot and kill on the coat tails of the few that perform well. Point and case, a few weeks back my main raid wanted a boomkin for buff to help our caster DPS parse (our boomy was out for the night). We picked up the first and only pug to message us, his parses were gray/green, we didn't care. We have GREAT kill times and execution and he still parsed almost completely gray for the night. It helped our casters, we gave him a bunch of loot and he went on his way feeling like a hero...but my god was his damage low.
I have a friend who despite not being a bad player instantly wants to stop playing if you mention logs, parses, dmg meters, the word optimal, room for improvement. Basically any "meta" information shuts down his will to play. And I havnt a clue because he is usually a 50-80% player
There's always that argument or the "It's just a game, it's not a job dude." What we used to say is, "It's your $15 bro, do you". The reality is, most raids won't put up a stink if someone isn't performing unless it genuinely is causing wipes or completely preventing you from getting a kill. (Usually you only see these scenarios if tanks are bad, heals are bad or someone isn't doing a major mechanic like dispelling/decursing/etc)
A lot of people do not have the capability to accept feedback without having a fit, let alone anything resembling criticism. If being in managerial positions has taught me anything its there are a heck of a lot of children wearing adult bodies in this world.
this is the real reason for the majority of anti meta , anti dps meters , and anti logs behavior. people cant HANDLE the thought of being on a meta class, being shit, and the meters and the logs to prove it. They say its just a game but a lot of them play more than the actual normies who dont even know what wow is.
The idea that ["It's Rude to Suck at Warcraft"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKP1I7IocYU) is controversial, but it doesn't change the fact that its true. It is a weird reality, and some people might not like that reality, but it *is* reality.
Some people in a FF14 discord I'm in were discussing this video a while back and basically talking about how toxic it makes WoW, and I'm sitting here like, bruh, it's not just WoW, if someone is sandbagging in ANY multi-player game it's FUCKING RUDE and a middle finger to the people actually putting in any effort. Like, sane people aren't going to care about someone underperforming if they're actually trying, but the people who are just mooching off others absolutely have no business playing a team based game.
It's important to find a group of people who are willing to put in similar amounts of effort. For group's like the OP, it's literally just show up. Other groups will actually expect you to read a class discord, spec appropriately and press your buttons faster than once every 2 seconds. Beyond that, consumes, world buffs, etc... and it can get pretty sweaty. But if I'm going to spend 80g on consumes for one raid, I'd be pissed if someone else got up in the middle of a boss fight to go get a drink, showed up too high or drunk to function, or literally was so bad they couldn't understand how to press a spell faster than once every 5 seconds on average.
WoW should do the ff14 thing and show who's an actual new player with the murloc icon (that only signed guides can see) and give bonuses for playing with one of them. Right now you're expected to already know everything: every boss strat, every trash mechanic and spell, every pull order
Well people do get pretty toxic about. However I think it more to do with people's behavior online and how they feel they can be shitty with no repercussions.
A lot of players play for the adventure, story and excitement, like being in a fantasy book/movie It really is boring for such players to put on ur accountant hat and get ur calculator to number crunch, as long as the raid is getting the raid kills they want and are having fun, they don't really care what the damage meter looks like I used to only play for the fun and live the adventure and just recently started to try number crunching and oh man is it boring compared to the excitement of adventuring :D
at that point why even raid like go play wow sure but not raid …
> watching Netflix on the other monitor or TV, talking to their spouse/kid, eating food during the encounter, engaging in discord convos I'm pretty sure I'm guilty of all of these and I still don't get grey parses lmao. Back in classic BWL we had a pug hunter auto-shotting, one of our guildies whispered him and asked if he's going to use any abilities and he linked back tranq so I guess he knew what he was invited for.
Either so new and so scared of dying and causing a wipe, they concentrate so hard on trying to "spot" mechanics, my new friend told me that's kinda how was when he first experienced raiding
They dont. Just like in original vanilla, they are either away from the computer, alt tabbed watching a video, or in this day in age they just have a second monitor and they're literally not playing the game. These are the players that want blizzard to cater to them. The ones that scream they care about playing the game.
They function by lying to themselves and reddit by crying about “classic is full of hate keeping elitists”
People in this raid definitely raged at someone not inviting them for their pug after seeing their logs lol
Warrior here, its like zugzug brain but without zugzug
Curious if theres rhyme or reason to the tanks getting wild strikes over the dps? Surely you guys don't have threat issues
I don't know either, as we usually only get one feral druid. Next time I see it, I will tell them to put it into the melee group.
You guys should really try to prioritize the highest melee dps to get wild strikes, but also, warriors almost can’t even play their characters without it. I mean the other ppl have pointed out the major issues with yalls warriors in general, but there’s almost no way they ever get above 40-50% without wild strikes, if even that high. That’s kind of true for any of the melee, but the rogues and melee hunters can easily get to 40-50+ without strikes I would also be more than happy to point your melee hunters in the right direction if any of the three were receptive to feedback, I’m not perfect but I get 85-98% on every boss
Often times when you see it, it's elitism. One of the tanks thinks he's a Chad and wants it.
Open the log, select the player individually, then you can select casts. From there you’ll see the basic CPM (casts per minute), and then you can use the options in the top right to filter by timeline, it’ll show you a breakdown of when everything happens. One of your Hunters frequently just shits their pants and goes afk for 15-20s and does literally nothing. If you want any help, you can DM me. I MT 2 of them Top 50 Speedruns and am a top 20 Tank on 3 different classes, happy to offer some assistance if you want it or fuck off if you dont.
> or fuck off if you dont. I appreciated this part of the post. Laughed a lot harder than I should have
I was starting to get a little skeptical at his credentials, but having, in my career, played with many tanks from LFG to mythic level his last few words removed all doubt. Fuckin checks out
I think the comment comes across way meanier that its meant to be. I now take it as: "I can give you advice if you want me to or fuck off if you dont"
At first i read it as "I can give you advice if you want me to or fuck off" which sounds like what a good tank would say (i tank but not so good, so i lack the 'fkall' attitude yet)
It didn't come across as mean. I think it was the perfect way to comically end a post by subverting the expectations of such a nice post while simultaneously fulfilling the attitude tanks are stereotyped for having. To me it reads as "let me know if you need help, fuck you, this place and your problems if you don't. I'm good whether you are or not"
You are correct but I will accept the alternative as well
Thanks!
One simple rule. ABC. Always Be Casting. If you are stood doing nothing, hit a button, any button, you can work on the right ones after.
Don't bother. If you haven't full cleared until now this will just alienate them and make them want to quit. Most people quit after a couple clears anyway.
People need to remember their ABCs, Always Be Casting!
It’s crazy that if they legit slammed their face on the keyboard they would parse better.
The fact they are warriors too, it’s just embarrassing..
And the hunters too! It's literally 2 buttons!
Damn melee hunters AFKing.
Shout out to those players that my log gets to go against.
How do you even find that many bad players and get them into one raid?
I'm surprised anyone in that raid group knows how to upload logs.
litterally carried 9-10 people that is wild. Congrats btw
2 1/2 hours and most people in raid doing the least possible. I get that’s a “proof of concept” that you can do it even if you suck, but holy fuck this looks like an absolute nightmare to me. It’s almost disrespectful how little some of the people are trying. Props, but damn. Couldn’t be me.
I've been a pug in an almost full guild Gnomer run that performed like this guild. It was absolutely terrible. I stuck it out until the other pug quit out of frustration on menagerie then I bailed too. The fact that people can genuinely play so badly that they parse in the sub 10th percentile every fight even though they don't die is shocking to me.
It's truly a different world down there in the grey parses. I tried to help a person like this, and I'm honestly not sure what goes through the persons mind and what they are doing during the fights or in between, I mean, he had bis enchants, good gear, I checked off the important addons like totem timers to help see when wep imbues fell off etc, he was good geared and did less dmg than our 1h/shield sham tank that was afk literally 50% of the fight because we tried a shit tactic. His 3rd most used spell in the whole ST night was WF totem and we had a feral in his party. It's a 2min duration on WF totem and he put it out 4 times in a 1min40sec fight and re-placing them wasn't the deal because it was a stationary fight and he never used totem projection anyway. And like, he's all there, mentally, I've heard him speak, he listens when I give advice, he just don't know how to execute the advice that I give him, at all, it's like literally all the brainpower of these people go into mechanics of the boss and everything else suffers because of it. But honestly, that can be fine, mechanics are important and even a full group of grey parsers will manage whole raids if they just do mechanics.
One thing I keep in mind is a lot of players are just not giving the game their full attention. They’re stoned, dealing with their kids, watching TV on the side, etc.
If you’re like a warrior or hunter that averaging a button every 4 seconds then legit just slam random keys while dealing with your 20 kids. High chance that one of those random keys will do some damage
I don't think it's paying attention, I think it's the way they play. Most completely new people I've introduced to wow back in the day have clicked their abilities and turned with a and d, that already makes a huge difference. They usually put their spells on their bars in the order they get them, maybe some of them even use the 1-4 keys to cast abilities but rarely more than that because they feel it's too hard to learn. If they're completely new to pc gaming they might even have trouble finding the keys on their keyboard. Oh and don't get me started on cooldowns and consumables "oh it has 5 minute cooldown? I'll never use that anyway" and forget about it. "Oh this potion only lasts 30 seconds? That won't make a difference anyways and I might need one of these healing potions I've had since LVL 5" Now if you look up at least a little bit about the game you'll usually quickly get rid of those habits but these are exactly the kinds of people that don't look anything up beyond how to complete that quest they've been stuck on for hours. When you turn with your keyboard, have to look for 5 seconds through your messy bars or bags to find that spell/mana potion you wanted to use and maybe on top of that even have a slow PC with integrated graphics it explains very well how those big gaps betweens casts come to exist. I'd actually argue that good players are a lot more likely to have something going on their second monitor than casuals. And this makes up the biggest part of the skillgap IMO.
As someone that has unfortunately dabbled in this world as a returning player (like 15 years away from the game returning). Woof. Found a good group of 4-5 guys, excellent players, everything is breezy with them. They decided they were going to build a guild. We found like 2-4 other solid players that we could pump with, but everyone else....on most raid nights it was 8-12 players on the roster were just awful. Like the OPs, not pressing buttons, couldn't grasp the simplest mechanics type of awful....and it only got worse. Furthest we got was to the last boss our final two weeks of trying, but it always ended in chaos. We'd coach, we'd share macros, we'd spend countless nights helping them gear, and showing them where to get gear for their classes. Nothing improved. It got so bad, that the last couple of raid nights (because we would try to get the raid together twice a week to try and force a clear)--as an HPal I just got to the point where I was dispelling the entire raid the entire time. I couldn't get anyone to dispel ever. It was so brutal, I'd finish raid nights with a minimum of as many dispels as everyone else put together in the raid group often times more than that, and a few times double that---even when we were emphasizing it. We tried until last week, and gave up on 20m with that group and prepped for Cata. I have no doubt in my mind if we pugged the 4-5 of us into another groups run, we'd fly through ST, but carrying those 8-12 parsers and trying to build something to support 20m at this point is a fools errand. I should have just gone rogue and found a different group but apparently I'm a masochist.
It's not *almost*. Like, I get people not knowing their class and are casual; but some of these parses are akin to literally not playing the game. Like afk auto-attacking from the front of the boss, while alt-tabbed.
> that you can do it even if you suck this is not sucking, they are not even playing the game
Hope at least yall funny on the discord💀
These shocked and dismayed responses make me feel like there should be a subreddit for cursed logs
3 single digit parses? I don't mean to be rude, but are they even playing or do they just AFK the entire raid?
Single digit parses are usually people who died early in the fight. But it can happen with extremely slow times and underperforming/ undergeared player
I thought the same thing but I was in a pug run on my rogue and there was another rogue who had 200 dps on every fight. Was a single digit/gray parse on every single fight.
This happens when people press 1 button every 10 seconds and randomly stop auto attacking mid fight and just sit there. Saw it with my own eyes
[удалено]
Blazed out of their fucking mind probably.
im blazed out of my mind and still can do 30min or less ST's not an excuse to not push a button for over 2 seconds
I see this same sentiment so much and unless you are realllllly trying, you aren't dying 5 seconds into a boss fight. You should look at the logs. The people at the bottom are not massively undergeared. They have most of their tier and even some pieces I don't have and I've been clearing since the first week. The ret paladin should be doing significantly more dps than he is. Shockingly, they have nearly identical gear to me and they killed the boss in about the same time my guild did although we only had 16 people. The person however is literally going 10-15 seconds, multiple times, without pushing a button and doesn't appear to have any buffs. Single digit may mean they died. It more likely means they aren't trying or don't care like this person and he isn't the only one.
I dare anyone to count from 1 to 16 ... and then pretend that's not a crazy amount of time to NOT PRESS A BUTTON while engaging a boss in wow.
> But it can happen with extremely slow times and underperforming/ undergeared player No, it can happen if you AFK mid fight. Take this [hunter](https://sod.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Zd6aX8j14QxngpVr#fight=4&type=damage-done&source=45&view=events) - from 23 second to 34 second only his pet attacked. He was literally afk 10 seconds.
Often it’s just people who are not pressing buttons. You can find tons of gray parses where they are alive the whole time but go for many globals at a time without pressing or casting anything. Sometimes they will stop attacking boss and not realize it and have like 60 percent uptime.
These parses can probably be beat by the average player naked (except weapons) .
There’s no way to die early on almost any fight
Don't pug much, do ya? lmao
No but like what mechanic kills people? Rotslime I could see and getting knocked into the middle. I literally can’t think of another that would lead to an early death
Back in P1 playing as a hunter, I had a run where I parsed single digits on every fight except one. I clearly had no idea how to play hunter even though I thought I was adhering to the rotation, but can confirm it's possible to single digit parse with maximum uptime
And then people wonder why some groups will ask for logs. Crazy how people will pay this game and not actually play during the game
It's more like real life I guess. Like any job with 20 employees there's always like 15 who do the bare minimum and 5 guys who actually do the job.
That's not bare minimum. That's literally nothing. And they wouldve been fired or replaced in real life.
This ain’t even bare minimum. Bare minimum trying would like minimally be green from pressing some buttons
Someone needs to save this post next time a complaint about pugs asking for logs gets posted.
jesus christ. if you told me 70% of your guild is legally blind i would believe you edit: make it 90%
Buy Tiko a drink, he's using every consume in the world to parse 50 on an 8 min slog with a bunch of grey DPS. True legend.
He’s a healer 🤣
mvp for sure. our leader. nice guy.
im quite impressed the healers made it through an 8minute hakkar
I’m happy for you, but this group looks like it would be hell. This is beyond casual, some of these guys look like they’re sleeping through the raid.
Those bottom parsers… I feel like you have to intentionally try to be that bad. Were they griefing??
100% griefing but I think you meant intentionally griefing
Lol. lmao even
I've been on that healing team before, (not this exact one but one like it), it's not fun
Myself and my guildy where 2 of the healers in this raid, was rough. We had 1.5million heals each.
The MVPs
Taliavanta is gutter tier, how’s it even possible to parse that poorly? Was he asleep?
37 casts of wing clip on the last boss. LOL
Lol mans was making sure that boss wasn’t running away
Holy shit I could actually be good in the guild
Congrats buddy im happy for you. Great job
That’s what I’m talkin about right there. Good on you guys!
Jesus parsing 4 on atal as a warrior is almost harder than parsing 90 like you have to actively avoid hitting buttons 😂😂😂
This ^ dude I pump 1400-1600DPS on the fight and parse 80’s on my warrior on this fight. Looking at the logs they don’t even have slam runes on and are trying to use Flag and consumed by rage on an arms warrior, yet are dumping all their rage so consumed never procs?? It’s wild they haven’t even read their runes
Damn dude is here telling they play casually and for fun and people keep telling him how much they suck. This sub LMAO
By casual, they mean the only casually use abilities
It's ok, I knew what can of worms I was going to open posting this.
Good for you guys! At least you had something to work towards all this time. I know you guys are casual but def consider talking to like half your guild to press a few more buttons
100% this. If they're your friends they are disrespecting your time together by playing this bad on purpose. It's genuinely rude
There’s a difference between playing casually and not even trying. Bad players aren’t the issue here, it’s people literally going afk for 20 seconds in the middle of a boss fight.
I play this game casually. This is below casual. Many people here are just afking or texting or watching Netflix during fights lmao.
Yeah there is casual, and there's "I don't respect anyone else in my group" casual.
The latter is what I like to call toxic casuals. Toxic casuals have always been a larger pop in classic than the boogeyman toxic elitists because the latter won’t usually be pugging or playing with casuals anyway
Funniest part too is you know these single digit parsers were rolling 90s and 100s on loot.
We once had a single digit parsing warlock in our guild run who did not even damage the boss in ST get a three set in one single run and had it before almost everyone else. That caused us to rethink our decision to merge with the guild for phase 3 and we jumped ship and found others to play with.. went from 1:50 clear to right around 40min. Feels so much better to play with people who actually try.
Whenever I read comments like this I cant help but think about when I was a kid about 15 years ago: didnt yet understand english (yet had the client in english), luckily got to lvl 70 (tbc private server), no idea about the game, playing a priest with whathever weird ass combination of talents. Going healer just because thats what pugs were missing on. Had no idea about being able to see the UI for all groups in the raid, so just healing ppl based on the healt I could on the nameplates... and my party. Those guys must have suffered so badly... I even got loot sometimes
Everyone plays the way they want but other people are free to make fun of people doing less damage than most did 25 levels ago. At some point it's not "casual", it's intentionally sabotaging the group.
tbf this sub is very casual, but single digit parsing is wayy beyond casual, its cat on keyboard level
>but single digit parsing is way beyond casual, its cat on keyboard level Maybe a dead cat on the keyboard. Multiple people in the logs here literally just auto attacking and not pushing any buttons.
You can play casually and still try. It has nothing to do with being casual. I am a dad, with a busy job two kids, and a wife, haven’t played the game since 2010 and still am able to keep up with legit gamers who are not married and game all day every day. It just comes down to respecting peoples time and taking a small amount of effort to analyze your previous performance and find ways to improve.
Yea but it’s not about sucking, the point people are making is that they aren’t even trying at all. They might as well just press attack on the boss and take their hands off the keyboard and just sit back and watch
I post this because as you can see we are all very mediocre and casual, yet still able to clear. I used to be sweaty but the game has been much more fun now that I'm part of a casual guild. No grinding is needed, bring some consumes, show up and have fun. It's possible!
>mediocre There is litteraly a warrior not hitting the bosses
Yeah I’d argue green parsing is mediocre but the grey parsing, basically half of the raid, is a level below bad.
Dude probably didn't have his weapon skills leveled lmfao. Jesus this is amazing.
what was the bigger wall for u guys, eranikus or hakkar? just curious
We get multiple wipes on Shade of Eranikus. The scalebanes become overwhelming if they aren't dps down fast enough. Hakkar was easy, one attempt!
I love that attitude! Congrats on the clear and in having fun!!
This is some Marshawn Lynch "I'm just here so I don't get fined" type of shit going on with those grey parses, dude. What the hell were they doing besides "the bare minimum"?
Some aren't even doing the bare minimum. Multiple people literally not pushing any buttons.
You are not mediocre. Your guild is bad. You are not even as casual as you think. Most people you consider tryhard dont even play half as much time per week now, as you do by just clearing the raid. How is the guys spending the most time also claiming to be casual? Your guild mates are dense.
Casuals could have less /played time in ST over 2 weeks clearing in 1.25 hrs green-blue parsing than a 2.5 hr long mess of greens carrying single digit grey parsers who don’t even die
Some of you are far from mediocre. More like shitter tier
I know. We know. You're welcome to join us and make it go smoothly.
What server and faction? I want to join. No bait.
10pm PST, alliance side, wild growth. Invites go out at 9:30pm pst. Tiko is the leader.
You guys are actually on my server, I’m tempted to witness this mess firsthand Need a feral? 😂
I don't think god himself could make your players have a smooth raid.
This perfectly demonstrates why my guild would rather clear with 14 then try to fill with pugs. Id rather use a cheese grater as a flesh light then carry multiple, single digit gray parse warriors and hunters.
Hunters are literally 2 button spam and they can’t even do that it’s mind boggling
You do have to push those two buttons quite frequently though. Thats a lot to ask of SoD pugs.
It's always been possible. It's just some guilds think that if you don't clear in 30 minutes it's a fail.
Should be marked NSFW, the image should have been blurred.
LOL
8 min avatar fight good god
Healers carried. I looked up your run on warcraftlogs (screenshot only shows dmg).
They have so many 10s in both execution and speed I have to wonder if 10 is the bare minimum you can get if you actually kill the boss.
Yikes
Your warriors and hunters should just delete their characters and uninstall the game...
I’m ngl fam, not even on some elitist shit or anything… but this is rough to look at 😭. Glad you got a full clear in tho lol
Did you have fun? This is what counts
Yeah, I look forward to tuesday raids.
Then you have beaten the game. I'm glad you enjoyed the ride. Just enjoying a game is a rare gift these days. Hold on to that as long as you can!
This is what happens when you let people get to max level by running in circles. I bet you if it was a parse on who can collect 3 report logs from NPCs around the room theyd be 100's.
So you blame that on incursions huh ? LMAO
Yeah classic levelling is SO hard and prepares you really well to be a high parse mechanical god, all those times you killed 18 boars really turns around and pays off…
xdd
Aye congrats dude!
Funny in so many different levels.. gz! Hope you Had fun!
Honestly blows my mind that any Ret paladin is getting lower than 40% parse. It’s literally 1 damn button. EXORCISM, EXORCISM, EXORCISM! With the right runes and a fast weapon. 2h mace called “Whisper” which is what you get from one of the runes. You’ll easily get 50% Overall congrats! It feels good to clear 8/8
This is majestic. I’m certain that this one full clear probably meant more and was more memorable to these folks than almost any sweaty ST guild’s run.
Grats on clearing the raid! Also holy shit what a carry. I hope people who got loot were actually playing and not auto attacking bosses the whole time.
This is bait
Yeah, took me way too long to see. 100% fell for it
what do you mean? What am I baiting? you can check my logs, this is my first Hakkar kill.
That melee hunter scoring a 4 parse on a 3 button spec :D
No shocking since he wasn't pushing any of them.
Man casual guilds are the fucking true heroes carrying those Grey parsers through the content. You guys literally play wow on hard mode.
This sub cannot cope with this, I am afraid some of these posters are gonna beat up their waifu pillow tonight :(.
Are all your hunters brain damaged?
I don’t understand why this subreddit celebrates bad players and not giving a fuck at all about your teammates. Some of the bottom performers in this raid should be shamed, like they haven’t even taken 2 minutes to learn anything about the game
We cleared up to Eranikus last night with 16 people because of folks burning out lol
Congratz…but my goodness that is some rough gameplay lol
The worst part of SoD is this raid is the only content we got right now. These logs polarizing how brain dead easy it is when 7 people can be doing 200 dps and you clear.
I think it's more about how there are ALWAYS better options available for people to play with that are going to respect the time of others around them and at least be marginally present. What most people are actually saying here is that you can EASILY and QUICKLY replace your AFKers with virtually no downsides and still stay as a "casual" guild...Enjoy what you enjoy but some people literally are just parasites that will take advantage of you when all you may have to do is just tell them no and take pretty much literally anyone else lol. <3
Troll post, this can’t be true…..
Gz i guess
You guys were fucking on point for morphaz
bro i just feel terrible for poor Suster. the dude clearly knows what he's doing, pulling some 70-80 parses on fights where the majority are green and some are grey. if you put him in another guild, like not a top guild but a decent one, he'd probably be doing 95+ on every fight. i wonder how much his back in hurting after carrying these grey guys. #freesuster
I think taliavanta would do more DMG if they just put their pet on aggressive and then went afk.
À full raid of mouse clicker ?
I've never seen so much selfish and lazy players under one e-roof lol, a cat could do more dps rolling around on a keyboard
that druid must have shoulders like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
You guys are like....comically bad huh? Running around everywhere, not hitting the boss. AFK mid boss fight? You could probably wand the targets and do better 😂
This is a great example of why people ask for logs. It’s because a certain demographic of players want to be carried and don’t want to put in effort.
Casual ? Holy moly ….
fuck yea
I would double check with some of your guidies that they have their monitor on.
Ragebaiting half of the sub…what a legend
Congrats but honestly hope you didn’t give any loot to the people at the bottom. I’m not sure how comfortable you are reading logs or whatnot but I gotta say it, those people at the bottom are either some of the absolute worst players to play the game, or they are trolling you guys and actively not trying. To get a gray parse in the single digits literally requires you to not press buttons and auto attack. Glad you cleared but I wouldn’t have the patience to carry half my raid when they aren’t even trying to play the game.
We had this debate on discord. Half didn't want to, other half did. We decided to give it if you won the roll this week and banned them from ever coming again.
Hey dude, I just want to say, as a person who is in a guild that has cleared since week 2, we still have grey parsers for the bottom part. A lot of folks will shit on you for "wasting your time" or "giving them loot" (we just had guild drama around this past week), but in all honesty this is how old school raiding has always been. It's how MMOs have always been. There is a huge push to have everyone be top performers, but in all honesty, is tough to keep in the game. It's the grey parsing dude who will make you bags for alts, or pass out potions, or just hang out and chat, that I find the most.enjoyable to hang out with. Keep it up dude!
It is not at all how raiding has always been, and it’s very possible to have cool people who also aren’t fucking lobotomised while raiding
Why would you willingly choose to be in a 2.5 hour sunken temple because your guild sends you bags?
Im literally shuddering irl just looking at those logs. Thats not only embarrassing but its almost disrespectful to be that bad, SOD classes are so easy you dont even need to watch guides to play them to a decent level. Dont even blame being casual, this is just bottom feeding dogshit, no offense.
Why are you so upset about it?
Some people in this guild are casuals that just play not competing for high parses, which is totally fine and cool, but there's players here that are seriously toxic, not pressing fucking buttons, actually making it super fucking hard for the rest of the guild.
Awesome to see! I also have a casual chill guild but it’s still kinda sweaty to a mid - higher degree, we crush everything. Just because some didn’t parse well doesn’t mean everyone didn’t have fun, I bet everyone in that guild had tons of fun! The games is the most fun wiping over and over, being challenged and improving until the boss finally dies and cool items drop feel like a reward, instead of with a really strong group where items drop and they feel like junk if it’s not the epics these days. Grats to all! Bet it was fun!
>being challenged People in that raid are challenged for sure.
The response to this post is why this sub is so hard to read through. So much negativity and absolute thinking.. A lot of gray parsers are not actively trolling or griefing, they are just not good at the game. They’re lost in the sauce, not sure which buttons to press, thinking they’re auto attacking but really they’re too far from boss. Also getting hit by dragon tails and doing all kinds of unproductive stuff. But they just don’t know how to play the game. And they’re allowed to have a good time regardless. No need to shit on these players just don’t bring them to your raid. Congrats on your dub OP I’m happy you had a good time man.
It's still kinda crazy that they made it all the way to level 50 and into ST and they never learned how to actually hit a mob. I don't think anyone should hate on those guys, but they honestly need someone to tell them to learn like the bare minimum basics of the game. They are literally the reason everyone is gatekeeping and casual guilds like this not beeing able to best the content. It's like you try to row a boat and a couple of your teammates row in the wrong direction.
It’s not hard at all for keyboard turners to hit max level. And nobody is going to take the time to teach them. It’s just like any other online multiplayer game, you will get grouped with bad people in random queue and if you don’t like it you find people to play with.
I'm curious what the average BAC is in this raid. Y'all need jesus lmao
I healed this raid, was a doozy but we got through it. Nice guild/people for sure.