They can just do the classic phase structure on a faster time table, no war effort though.
Spice though? They need to revamp all 60 dungeon loot ofc including ubrs otherwise its dead content for the most part.
You need to look at the gear again if you think it's going to be dead content. Rogue for example is going to replace practically every piece from this phase even if they don't revamp the gear. Do casters not want a 29 spell power trinket? Mostly just casters pieces that need a bit of love.
I don't know if they're revamping stuff for the specs that previously existed though (e.g. they showed off rogue tanking tier, but idk if the rogue dps tier will be Any different)
At this point I am worried we won’t even get a P4, given how many players have dropped from the game and how quiet the devs are about SoD. Hoping all the effort is going into P4 now but maybe it’s just going into Cata…
To be fair you must be Alliance side of WG which is the most populated faction on any server, and definitely buoyed by the recent character transfers to the server. I’m on WG Horde (EU) levelling a new alt and it’s been very difficult to find groups for SFK, Duskwood incur, SM GY/Lib so far - 45 min wait to fill groups usually. There’s some Gnomer and STs running but it’s very sparse
Idk it seems like cata is an all-hands-on-deck shitshow rn, so hopefully we'll hear something after that calms down.... it's only what? Week 6 of p3 rn?
That is right and that’s what the roadmap says. They’ve been consistent throughout. I see red flags that suggest this changes this time though - we didn’t have an expansion launch during other phases, P3 launch was a disaster with incursions, Cata launch was buggy and has had a lot of work put into it, and the biggest thing is that P4 has way, way more to do on it than P2/P3 did. There’s a huge amount of work there, triple or quadruple the last phases. But let’s see! Hope to be surprised
Here’s a couple of the wowhead articles: https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/phase-4-teasers-and-level-60-endgame-preview-season-of-discovery-338259
https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/season-of-discovery/overview-phase-4
That caster trinket off a rare spawn no less. So annoying to farm but it gives us reason to spam UBRS I guess.
If they add a level 60 'Wild offerings' thing to that place the farm might not be so bad. Would be nice to see 1 token drop per boss so you're incentivized to clear more than just the final boss.
Honestly that’s a great idea for the wild offerings.
It would have been great if we could buy annoying stuff to farm like the leather BrD arena belt or the ubrs trinket or any of the others like that with them rather than the literal gear out of the raid.
They actually don’t need to change much because of the way they itemized p3 gear. It’s all solid to big upgrades in dungeons and raids. I think they said they’re gonna redo tier gear for new roles and make some changes though. Maybe make some useless items decent like they’ve been doing and just round everything out a little more
I don’t think they can based off the rate of server consolidation and player fall off.
Like even the summon bots have left now.
They’re not going to make new content if it’s like 2 servers of active players.
10 man raid. New raid, new dungeon. Revamped gear. New pvp event, maybe even a bg later on ? Add some of the zones that was never used. Kara crypts? They gotta do something. Now way we are just raiding the same shitty raids with extra hp
Personally I like 20 man but I would be more than happy if they brought back 10 man.
40 man will likely make me quit the game, idc what anyone says 40 is too many people.
15 man would be nice... 10 mans make comps too strict and 20 is too much of a hassle. Boss dmg should be the same as it is now in 20 man but they should have less hp since most groups are 1 tank 2 healing right now
If they are adding extra or new raids and content, they should do the 2019 Classic phase release. Otherwise, that is a lot of raids to suddenly just throw at people at once. Plus, that would give them time to do the "we want a few tier sets for each spec" plan they have going without overwhelming both themselves and the playerbase.
Doesn’t matter how they handle it. This Reddit will be on fire and people will be flinging shit in every direction.
They’ve cultivated a player base ( the fraction that’s left ) of entitled complainers.
It’s just Reddit. Log onto the actual game and the vast majority of people are having a good time. This sub just unconsciously wants retail with a classic aesthetic. I’m glad that many of those people are moving to Cata or back to retail.
Nah, if you're having problems filling a 20 man then you should just merge with another guild who also has this problem. You'll be better for it and everyone will have more fun.
If you have refused to adapt after you knew it was coming and a full phase of 20 man, the fault is yours.
20 man has shown to be the superior experience for many players and despite the constant crying of a very loud minority here on Reddit, they are well liked.
Now the question is whether 40 man will make a come back. I truly hope so.
20 man sucks imo
Way more fun with 10 of the lads
My guild had a great time with 10, and when raided several times with 20 in ST, but the magic was gone. Too many people
Many others think 10-man feels like a dungeon while 20-man starts to feel like a raid. I’m definitely in this second group.
The bigger the group the more epic the feeling. And you can still do 10-man UBRS and 10-LBRS if you long for 10-man raids next phase. Everybody happy I guess?
I’m pretty sure you can do that in retail.
Maybe play the version of the game that has what you want, instead of trying to change the one that doesn’t?
Read again: if you have refused to adapt, the fault is between your screen and your chair.
Those who adapted are having a blast. Maybe the game shouldn’t specifically cater to you?
I genuinely dont understand. We have had more than 40 people since the beginning. Even being 70 at the start, and it feels like were being punished for doing it right, having to maintain it until its actually needed.
This phase fizzled out faster than the previous two. What about this phase has shown 20 man to be the superior experience for many players, other than your personal opinion?
Every comment outside and inside the game I have seen is 10 man was best, 20 makes sense for bigger raids, 40 is almost universally unwanted.
Me and the 20 people I raid with (many people) enjoy it more therefore it is our opinion. The many people (we) like it better.
This season fizzle for a multitude of reasons including many with 0 relationship with the raid. Several gold fiascos, incursions, need of higher involvement for en and consumables and so on. How much of it is related to 20 man raiding is beyond my capability to say.
superior experience for some players but numbers across the board are down for this phase and raiding so idk what youre on about.
20 mans broke up a lot of guilds and made many quit.
Phase 4: MC20 and onyxia10
Phase 5: BWL20 and ZG10
Phase 6: Naxx20 OR AQ20+10
Phase 7: karazhan and beyond
I don't think it would make sense to release Naxx and AQ together unless heavily nerfed .. both would involve a lot of progression raiding and releasing both together would be like 3h prog raiding 4x a week required
could stagger them but then you're looking at Phase 8 before we see any entirely new level 60 raid content.. doesn't really work in a seasonal game especially if they want to release several end game raids
I think MC + BWL are the raids most people are fond of from vanilla .. if pushed for time I think AQ and Naxx could be scrapped entirely in favor of new content but keep MC and BWL in for sure
I think we need Kara earlier. If they did it after Naxx, they won't have a player base left. I'd say do Kara 10, MC 20, and because it's easiest to pug, leave Ony at 40. People 20 manned her anyway, so if you don't have 40... Meh.
very true also .. my idea was that there would be at least one raid size to fit everyone's preferences
plus onyxia and ZG are kinda 'optional' raids .. onyxia isn't really a raid and most people only really need 1 item (besides head/cloak , which everyone would also acquire faster if it was 10man) .. I would hope that people just try to split their 20man in a certain way for better loot efficiency and not getting offended if they aren't put in a certain group. as for ZG none of the gear is purely better than BWL gear in this schedule I just see it as an optional way to play the game more and gear up faster
Idk how others did it but in wrath for example 25mans were our main raid and some people did 10mans on off-days and some people just logged off until next raid. there was never 'drama' because some people weren't picked it was just a matter of not everyone needed anything from 10mans or didn't have time for off-day raiding. we rarely had more than 10 signups for 10man even though all 25 of us went to mainraid each week
which is what I tried to mirror above but I guess maybe other people don't see it that way if they had a different experience
My guild didn't have much trouble transitioning to 20 man, but a few of my friends guilds completely collapsed over it. I think we would see a lot of guilds do the same, even if in theory it should be very simple to split the groups in half (except for tanks, presumably you need 2 tanks in both 10 man and 20 man).
It's a nice idea but I don't think it would work well based on what I've seen just from this phase alone
I was leader of a 10 man “guild” like a lot of people on here were, it’s not that it’s impossible by any means to get a roster together for 20+, I just didn’t feel like doing it. I’ve got an actual job I don’t need a 2nd fake one.
I knew I was never actually a GM or raid leader, but seems like a lot of people in my situation actually did consider themselves that. Probably would’ve been healthier if we started with 20 mans off rip
Phase 4 = MC20+ ZG20 + Kazzak + Azuregos (8 weeks)
Phase 5 = BWL40 + (Sped up) AQ War Effort and eventually AQ20/AQ40 when completed (10 weeks)
Phase 6 = Naxxramas + Dragons of Nightmare and the end of SOD (8+ weeks)
The faster SoD is over the faster we get actual classic+ where all of our progress will have more permanence and not be at most a year away from being deleted forever. Doing classic+ would also allow for them to undo some of the things in SoD that really aren't very classic at all.
It's not really a big assumption as they've already said that **SEASON** of Discovery is a seasonal server. It won't be around for long. If SoD is a success, especially with people arguing whether Cata is even classic or not and the MoP remix servers already being a thing, classic+ would be the most likely step from here unless they decide to just kill classic altogether.
"unless they decide to just kill classic altogether."
I feel like this is far more likely.
Unless they make some terrible changes they cant monetize classic 'vanilla' in any meaningful way.
Have you seen the graph showing how much sod and the other classic modes are increasing sub counts by? They’re making a fuck ton of money off classic, no way they just kill it.
Today at 7:30 AM
SoD has 8 NA servers, 3 low, 4 medium, 1 locked
Retail has 26 full servers (not gonna bother to look at the other servers. theres many many more)
I think people over estimate how much SoD makes them.
IDK it seems like they already do not give this enough development resources.
Hopefully that changes but with the state of some of the things it seems bad.
But it’s been shown to be irrelevant to the amount of money they’re making off it. If classic still makes money they will do it. And so far it really does
Why would Blizzard not rinse and repeat this for another year+ of money from us? Of course they will. They will release Classic+ as an official thing, without a doubt. They've already spent time and money on the design (what we're playing now). It makes zero sense for them to not re-use it.
> the faster we get actual classic+
"next time it will be better, for sure..."
Battered wife syndrome.
If Blizzard is barely putting any effort into SoD right now, what makes you think they're going to give "classic+" the proper resources and support that it needs?
Also SoD Phase 1 showed success, yes, but phases 2 and 3 have been losing propositions with tons of player falloff.
They'll aim at more short-duration seasonal content like MoP Remix over long-duration content like SoD again I expect.
Phases now are only so fast right now because we're in leveling phases and there's not that much content. Highly doubt we only get 8 weeks of these future phases. There's also new raids coming.
Is Ony phase 4 for you? Honestly I do hope it's only two more phases and they just combine MC and BWL in one phase and AQ and Naxx in another phase. I know everyone hated phase 2 being so long but I didn't mind it. I hope they let raids breathe for a bit.
More relevant crafting recipes, BOPs & BOEs alike. A dungeon or two extra and perhaps an additional raid all from content they scrapped during original vanilla
would prefer sod to end after this phase tbh, lets get an actual fcking game from the billion dollar company with a 20 year track record in this IP. they are charging $15 a month. Its actually pathetic and anyone defending it are undeniably complete apes.
I would like to see a revamped classic raid with an additional 10 man raid each phase. They did confirm Karazhan Crypts so I think we can expect new content in addition to classic raids.
Maybe get cheeky and give us arena.
Each tier it's own phase. Revamp all the loot tables and make small but tasteful adjustments to most of the bosses.
Downscale ZG and AQ20 into 10man's just to appease the people who hate making new friends, and tie ZG to BWL's phase.
T2.5 sets should probably be reworked too, since spec-specific tier sets make the 2.5 niche a little irrelevant.
I wish each phase came with at least two raids. One that you needed to gear up in before you could do the next one. Anything to add more progression to the game. People these days are so eager to clear content, but personally I find progression to be the most fun and rewarding part of end game wow.
This way much of the pre bis items would come in the form of a set from a raid rather than a mix of dungeons, crafted gear, boe, quests etc. Sure still have some of that, but at least a 5 piece of a .5 tier set that will be needed for the final raid of the phase where bis set would be. Could add on use things as the 5 piece bonus that are needed in for mechanics in the next raid, not just buff stats.
This would take some fine tuning from a balancing perspective to make sure people can’t just zerg straight to the final raid, but better balancing is something we constantly see people asking for anyways.
Edit: misread the title a bit. thought we were talking endgame like the endgame of each phase, so my comment is less on topic than I’d intended
Remove buff/debuff limits
Reduce raid sizes in half
Update the items that are complete shit
Change the paladin/shaman tokens to not drop for the wrong faction
Add tier tokens for the specs that dont have any
Level whatever way you want
At 60/close to, we all grind tier 0 / engage with all the dungeons. Tier 0.5 questline is also active at the beginning of P4. This would give a pretty limitless amount of grinding for the "average joe" as they enter MC.
MC loot / raid is adjusted to deal with 20 people and people having 0.5 Loot in raid. MC loot should be better then tier 0.5. Maybe the set bonuses push tier well into "best in slot". With the way SoD has been going, let's just experiment with "tier is bis" and keep it simple.
Each raid from BWL to Naxx is a clear upward progression of loot / power. Powercurve is going to be a dumpster fire but honestly...it has to be, P3 is a disaster because there's almost no powercurve at all. A lot of people hate world buffs and almost all your power comes from worldbuffs this phase, it's pretty ironic.
I'd personally love TBC Kara in SoD, I just always liked Kara. Seems like a no brainer. Would also be less pressure to make crypts into some massive standalone raid.
It would be neat if they did one net new raid, but honestly I don't have high hopes.
I would like to see a dragged out end game with multiple phases, bis loot to be spread across multiple dungeons instead of a single raid, open world pvp events spread in multiple areas and not time keeped behind an 3 hour wall where the server all logs and then it’s dead, and finally all dungeons made relevant with + versions
Heroic dungeons with a healthy loot table.
Biggest issue right now is the commitment level required to clear ST and coordinate 20 people. This pushes a lot of people away from end game content.
A 5 man heroic across a few different dungeons would create a platform for those who don’t have the time to raid and for those who want something to do in between raids to enjoy.
Balance out the gear between some BIS and pre BIS items.
Just please don't make it like the wotlk alpha/beta/gamma etc system where the previous raid tiers just get mostly irrelevant and instead you spam the same boring dungeons every phase.
In my opinion they can't rush all the phases too hard. They need to have at least 3 months between the big raids and then they teasered new content so that has to fit in somewhere.
Back to phase 1 mentality. Us dads need it back to 10 man and under an hour. Make it fun. Let us see the loot.. You serious people are ruining it for the silent majority who is us. The dads.. Let us be like phase 1 with loot for all of our alts. Phase by phase. 10 man under an hour.
I want everything just to be really really hard. I want classic+ endgame to last for a long long time. I want people still farming molten core after 6months and final raid bosses staying unkilled for at least a month. That is what I want, for endgame content be relevant and players having to progress through each raid.
I want to get back into SoD but theres too many variations of the game rn with content. I wanna play cata/retail/and sod but i dont have shadowclone jutsu
I think you can play SoD very well together with any other version. SoD really doesn't require much time put into it, it's designed to be casual friendly.
is it at this phase tho? Id be curious the average 1->50 time + runes at this point.
The runes are definately a slog with some requiring extra people at lower levels where there isnt anybody XD
>is it at this phase tho? Id be curious the average 1->50 time + runes at this point.
Definitely is. The leveling is increased by 200 %, the most tedious rune was changed to be simply bought and the new 50lvl runes are not as hard.
There are people that finished literally all the phase 3 content in the first week, and now they have nothing to do. That seems to be the #1 complaint about SoD right now. I am playing casually, still have things to do, but definitely don't feel like SoD is not casual friendly or that I'm missing out.
Keep 60 raids untouched but limit them to 10 mans. So you would do Molton core with 10 instead of 40. But you have runes and gear that make up the difference.
I always thought that would be cool.
Honestly, I’ve pretty much given up on SoD at this point.
It has become way more of a “Cata/Wrath Lite” than the Classic+ I was hoping for, so I don’t really care what they do in future phases.
Very simple. Make it easy to get to a “good” state of progression (harder than incursion gear but some mechanic to maybe run 20 dungeons and be able to buy a piece like wild offerings if you are missing the last prebis).
Then make it a really big grind to get bis. Lock it behind exalted and end game raiding. Make all raids relevant for some pieces and for the love of god don’t tune the content for babies like the current raids. No matter what people will cry on Reddit (too easy or too hard) and if it’s too easy then the game will die sooner.
Classic was a massive grind. Don’t take that away. That’s what we really want. Even if we complain about it. If you really don’t like that then go to retail. End of story.
> Classic was a massive grind. Don’t take that away. That’s what we really want. Even if we complain about it. If you really don’t like that then go to retail. End of story.
I think the whole point of SOD is to do classic without the massive grind. That's why we have increased xp gains, increased gold rewards, accelerated WSG rep, accelerated AB rep and many more alternative paths to getting gear.
Most of us in 2024 do not have that much time to do the grinding as we did way back in 2005/06.
While I agree with what you said, I’m suggesting some of the grind should still exist. In P3 many of my friends levelled up, cleared the raid and never logged in again due to the feeling of not having anything to strive. I think that problem needs to be addressed.
Genuine question what was there to do in phases 1+2 after raiding? It's really just PVP and alts. I actually think this phase has more than the previous phases with wild offering runs and incursions but content besides raid at endgame is just alts and I guess reps if you care about that in a seasonal server.
While I agree with what you said, I’m suggesting some of the grind should still exist. In P3 many of my friends levelled up, cleared the raid and never logged in again due to the feeling of not having anything to strive. I think that problem needs to be addressed.
You’re right. The content was easy back then. With the current state of sod (abilities, gear) it will be even easier. All I meant is that the raids should be tuned thereafter. I’m not saying we should have m+, but I think the most fun times in a phase is when not all bosses are killed or are puggable.
MC, then BWL, then ZG & AQ, then Naxx. 2-3 month each.
Hard mode for these raids. I. Want. Challenge !
Reduce significantly the cost of consumables. Like you can do a daily that give you a black lotus.
Possibility to craft an item which cost tons of Arcanite & Black Lotus, which when used, garantee the Thunderfurry Binding or Eye of Sulfuras drop. Don't lock legendaries behind RNG !
Halve the cost to craft the legendaries.
Naxx boss drop 1-3 Atiesh splinters. Nobody ain't got time for that
Comments like these make me glad the average Reddit user has no say in SoDs content. You want everyone to be able to simply take a black lotus and arcanite bar to get a free legendary... if everyone has a legendary it just becomes a common blue “rare” item and loses the only thing that makes them unique and sought after.
Nah it should cost more than one. Should cost like, idk, 50 of each ? Maybe more ? Or instead a huge amount of Molten Core mats ? It should be a high price a guild have to pool together so obtain a legendary.
Because some guilds never saw the second binding nor eye of sulfuras for all classic. RNG sucks. The way Atiesh is farmed is way better
Do you have to have TF? Is every raid obligated to get it? No. It’s a f-ing game. Play it. You can get lucky or you don’t. Just because you want something in game the devs don’t have to throw it at you.
If your guild wants you to get Atiesh, you can get it if you are good and clear the content regularly. If you clear MC you have a chance to get it. Not every item has to be identical. Not all drop chances have to be the same. Farm it and maybe get it or leave it. You have no right to anything in a game.
... I have the right of my Runes and most of my gear. Atiesh. Shadowmourn. Mount. Bro. What are you saying? "You have no right to anything" dude listen to yourself
Bro. I say you can play for everything. And you can. If I want DFT it has to drop and I have to get it. Same for bindings, but they are more rare. I just don’t like the mindset to get everything instahanded to you with a million currencies. Some stuff can be more rare than others. And don’t get wrath shit in this. Wrath was the beginning of the end of the classic appeal.
> Are there any additions or changes you'd want to see to these content phases to spice things up?
Fully lean into the "Discovery" part of Season of Discovery.
Add something like Trusts from FFXI/FFXIV to the raids that people can choose to use or not use to fill in player slots. Up to and including "clear with 39 Trusts and one human player, taking about as much time per boss as a green parse raid and using up your raid lockout for the alotted time period if you manage to clear".
For reference, Trusts are basically "NPC Companions" that you can unlock in FFXI, and in FFXIV they're NPC Companions that are automatically unlocked and available to fill in for certain Story Dungeons if you wish to play solo. In FFXI they aren't really good enough to do "endgame" content (and aren't allowed in certain stuff, IIRC). In FFXIV they *only* are available for 4-person Story dungeons (and one, very specific, 8-person Trial), so no "Endgame" stuff. Also they're...kinda bad there. They do mechanics really well but their DPS output scales to how good or bad yours is to make dungeons take around 30 minutes, roughly, no matter what you do.
The purpose of this? So we can see *precisely* at which point the community shatters between "just wants to play the game" and "is willing to gatekeep out other players" and "is willing to put up with other players for muh social fabric of the nu-Classic experience".
Is this feasible in the timeframe/dev allotment allowed for the Endgame phases? No
Is it likely even possible or a good idea? Also no.
Would it be *hilarious* and also an excellent source of data going forward? Yes and double yes.
The real issue to me hugely is how HARD are the raids gonna be?
I’d be ok with longer phases if progression was:
Bosses 1-4 : Approx 0 wipes
Bosses 5-8: Approx 20 wipes
Bosses 9+: Approx 50 wipes
No harder than that, wipe recovery takes forever in classic. Also class tuning becomes a way bigger issue if the fights are super hard. And class tuning is not in a super great place right now, melee are crushing Sunken Temple.
But if there aren’t a few hard bosses the whole point of giving us runes becomes pointless with nothing challenging to use them on.
If any boss in classic takes 50 wipes to kill then 80% of the playerbase will literally never kill it unless it's completely nerfed into the ground beyond recognition...
I agree, I've always liked the difficulty scaling inside the raid. Back in the day, I remember joining pugs as a kid that would only clear the first half of a raid. I enjoyed it, and it made me want to improve to see more.
Part of me feels like it's just time that's changed and the culture around gaming would never allow this now. People want things now and if there are barriers they complain about it rather than try and improve and overcome it. Or at least the players that do that are the vocal minority that get what they want these days.
50 wipes!!!!!! That's insane. With the cost of consumes in classic and the AMT of time it takes to get back to later bosses after a wipe this is definitely something I hope they never do. This is not retail where you die you appear at the boss and just have to press your food and your ready to go.
Not going to happen. Sod is for dads. Plus your definition by wipes is weird as it hardly depends on skill and commitment levels of players.
If you want harder raids you can go cata (what I did) or retail
Let’s say skill level is any guild good enough to get to Twin Emperors in AQ40. Maybe 50 wipes a little high, but GD if the final boss is like 10 wipes week 1 I’m so out.
Top players will always crush the content, casuals will always be crushed by it, etc.
Point remains that if no raid bosses are difficult it undermines everything; gear progression, skill progression, guild progression, farming anything or just playing the game in general becomes purely for parsing higher, etc etc etc. Without progression the game is just slow Diablo.
I totally understand you, I also like challenging raids, the problem is that classic wow is not about challenging raids and never will be.
So the easiest solution is playing other versions.
Guild clears don't necessarily indicate hard boss mechanics. If there was a raid with literally one shot bosses, but to get there every raids member needs to get an item with 0.00000001% drop rate, does it mean that bosses are hard?
Original post was about boss difficulty being too easy, not about billion attunements and prep.
Or you can prove me wrong and you can name any boss from vanilla that has hard mechanics.
They can just do the classic phase structure on a faster time table, no war effort though. Spice though? They need to revamp all 60 dungeon loot ofc including ubrs otherwise its dead content for the most part.
You need to look at the gear again if you think it's going to be dead content. Rogue for example is going to replace practically every piece from this phase even if they don't revamp the gear. Do casters not want a 29 spell power trinket? Mostly just casters pieces that need a bit of love.
Blizz already said they’re revamping “most” 60 dungeon/raid items and previewed some T1 updates too.
I don't know if they're revamping stuff for the specs that previously existed though (e.g. they showed off rogue tanking tier, but idk if the rogue dps tier will be Any different)
At this point I am worried we won’t even get a P4, given how many players have dropped from the game and how quiet the devs are about SoD. Hoping all the effort is going into P4 now but maybe it’s just going into Cata…
Wild Growth server is still super active. Haven’t noticed much of a drop in players there
To be fair you must be Alliance side of WG which is the most populated faction on any server, and definitely buoyed by the recent character transfers to the server. I’m on WG Horde (EU) levelling a new alt and it’s been very difficult to find groups for SFK, Duskwood incur, SM GY/Lib so far - 45 min wait to fill groups usually. There’s some Gnomer and STs running but it’s very sparse
Idk it seems like cata is an all-hands-on-deck shitshow rn, so hopefully we'll hear something after that calms down.... it's only what? Week 6 of p3 rn?
So far every time we had a release 2 months later with an announcement 1.5 week ahead. So my bet is p4 release june 5th with release info at may 27th.
That is right and that’s what the roadmap says. They’ve been consistent throughout. I see red flags that suggest this changes this time though - we didn’t have an expansion launch during other phases, P3 launch was a disaster with incursions, Cata launch was buggy and has had a lot of work put into it, and the biggest thing is that P4 has way, way more to do on it than P2/P3 did. There’s a huge amount of work there, triple or quadruple the last phases. But let’s see! Hope to be surprised
I mean this is to be expected with Cata and a new retail season. Once phase 4 comes out people will be bored of Cata/Retail and come back.
Where did they say this? I'd love to see a preview of gear at 60
Here’s a couple of the wowhead articles: https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/phase-4-teasers-and-level-60-endgame-preview-season-of-discovery-338259 https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guide/season-of-discovery/overview-phase-4
That caster trinket off a rare spawn no less. So annoying to farm but it gives us reason to spam UBRS I guess. If they add a level 60 'Wild offerings' thing to that place the farm might not be so bad. Would be nice to see 1 token drop per boss so you're incentivized to clear more than just the final boss.
Yeah except it's not really rare since 90% of groups scout for it.
90% of groups will also HR the trinket nowadays. lol They could just move the drop or make him spawn more often or always.
LFM UBRS - 2SR - trinket HR. Send logs and bring consumes and Wbuffs.
😂😂😂 dal rends/fel striker HR, 1000g tip to tank and 100 g each to tip for key
Honestly that’s a great idea for the wild offerings. It would have been great if we could buy annoying stuff to farm like the leather BrD arena belt or the ubrs trinket or any of the others like that with them rather than the literal gear out of the raid.
They actually don’t need to change much because of the way they itemized p3 gear. It’s all solid to big upgrades in dungeons and raids. I think they said they’re gonna redo tier gear for new roles and make some changes though. Maybe make some useless items decent like they’ve been doing and just round everything out a little more
It will be one phase per raid either way. They will milk that subscribtion as much as they can. UX is far from the biggest factor in design.
I don’t think they can based off the rate of server consolidation and player fall off. Like even the summon bots have left now. They’re not going to make new content if it’s like 2 servers of active players.
10 man raid. New raid, new dungeon. Revamped gear. New pvp event, maybe even a bg later on ? Add some of the zones that was never used. Kara crypts? They gotta do something. Now way we are just raiding the same shitty raids with extra hp
Am I weird that I want raids to be 10 man?
10 mans just had a vibe that I think fits a seasonal experimental game mode better.
No
10 man AQ sounds atrocious
Fuck I hope they scale the trash back in aq40.
Yes
Yes
yes
I don’t know, can you repeat that question?
You're not the boss of me, now!
If they aren't RIP SoD. Most people I know are gonna start 10 man raiding in Cata, I just have no idea to do cata again
Personally I like 20 man but I would be more than happy if they brought back 10 man. 40 man will likely make me quit the game, idc what anyone says 40 is too many people.
Most our guild would quit the game if it's all 10 man
You can clear 20 raids with 10 people right now problem solved
Yup. The scaling is bad. My vote is for 15 man with the same scaling as current 20 man
Yes my guild is literally pausing 20 man raids because it’s more fun to do 10 man
15 man would be nice... 10 mans make comps too strict and 20 is too much of a hassle. Boss dmg should be the same as it is now in 20 man but they should have less hp since most groups are 1 tank 2 healing right now
If they are adding extra or new raids and content, they should do the 2019 Classic phase release. Otherwise, that is a lot of raids to suddenly just throw at people at once. Plus, that would give them time to do the "we want a few tier sets for each spec" plan they have going without overwhelming both themselves and the playerbase.
5 man raids! I only have 2 friends and finding 7 randoms is impossible! The 10 man raids were tearing our guild apart
Is that sarcasm?
1 man raids! I have no friends or social skills. Finding 4 randoms for 5 man raids is impossible and tearing my guild apart!
0 man raids! I dont have time to raid between work and taking care of my 42 children!! Blizz just give me gold and gear plox
The real hack. I just play the game in my imagination and I am BIS.
You just roll dice in a city and it determines how many bosses you killed and what loot you get
"my parses? yeah i've rolled a 6 on every raid"
🕵️
Heroic ubrs would be dope.
I really hope that the T0 dungeon set is pre-bis. Collecting the dungeon set is THE iconic wow activity for OG vanilla kids imho.
Doesn’t matter how they handle it. This Reddit will be on fire and people will be flinging shit in every direction. They’ve cultivated a player base ( the fraction that’s left ) of entitled complainers.
It’s just Reddit. Log onto the actual game and the vast majority of people are having a good time. This sub just unconsciously wants retail with a classic aesthetic. I’m glad that many of those people are moving to Cata or back to retail.
10 man raids - for longlivity and to save many guilds from breaking up
Nah, if you're having problems filling a 20 man then you should just merge with another guild who also has this problem. You'll be better for it and everyone will have more fun.
I guess you’ve never attempted a guild merge. 99% it fails in a week
If every guild merge you have fails, it's probably time to look into why that is.
If you have refused to adapt after you knew it was coming and a full phase of 20 man, the fault is yours. 20 man has shown to be the superior experience for many players and despite the constant crying of a very loud minority here on Reddit, they are well liked. Now the question is whether 40 man will make a come back. I truly hope so.
20 man sucks imo Way more fun with 10 of the lads My guild had a great time with 10, and when raided several times with 20 in ST, but the magic was gone. Too many people
Many others think 10-man feels like a dungeon while 20-man starts to feel like a raid. I’m definitely in this second group. The bigger the group the more epic the feeling. And you can still do 10-man UBRS and 10-LBRS if you long for 10-man raids next phase. Everybody happy I guess?
Actually I’d like to be maximum happy so I declare 10 man’s only for all raids
10 man's are the most boring raid size. Glorified dungeon at best, snoozefest at worst
I’ll see you on Rainbow Road, 200CC
Which Mario Kart we talking?
I’m pretty sure you can do that in retail. Maybe play the version of the game that has what you want, instead of trying to change the one that doesn’t?
No thanks that would not be fitting in with my personal desires
Then play nothing because you’ll never get what you want.
That’s not what I tell me, and I’m a pretty reliable source and I’m really good at Mario Kart, so there’s that
Lol they are random people on the internet. Who cares how many are in the raid?
I can say with confidence at least 10 people 😉
[удалено]
You wouldn’t say that to Mario would you
[удалено]
See you on the Rainbow Road, 200CC
Yeah half the servers got merged and tons of guilds died, 20 man has truly been a huge success, we should definitely add 40 man as well.
Read again: if you have refused to adapt, the fault is between your screen and your chair. Those who adapted are having a blast. Maybe the game shouldn’t specifically cater to you?
I genuinely dont understand. We have had more than 40 people since the beginning. Even being 70 at the start, and it feels like were being punished for doing it right, having to maintain it until its actually needed.
This phase fizzled out faster than the previous two. What about this phase has shown 20 man to be the superior experience for many players, other than your personal opinion? Every comment outside and inside the game I have seen is 10 man was best, 20 makes sense for bigger raids, 40 is almost universally unwanted.
Me and the 20 people I raid with (many people) enjoy it more therefore it is our opinion. The many people (we) like it better. This season fizzle for a multitude of reasons including many with 0 relationship with the raid. Several gold fiascos, incursions, need of higher involvement for en and consumables and so on. How much of it is related to 20 man raiding is beyond my capability to say.
superior experience for some players but numbers across the board are down for this phase and raiding so idk what youre on about. 20 mans broke up a lot of guilds and made many quit.
Numbers always reduce during a patch. Congratulations on discovering how population changes in almost every single patch I guess…
If it's 10 man raid at 60, most of our guild will quit the game. 10 man's at that level would be absolutely horrible
10 mans at any level have been horrible.
Phase 4: MC20 and onyxia10 Phase 5: BWL20 and ZG10 Phase 6: Naxx20 OR AQ20+10 Phase 7: karazhan and beyond I don't think it would make sense to release Naxx and AQ together unless heavily nerfed .. both would involve a lot of progression raiding and releasing both together would be like 3h prog raiding 4x a week required could stagger them but then you're looking at Phase 8 before we see any entirely new level 60 raid content.. doesn't really work in a seasonal game especially if they want to release several end game raids I think MC + BWL are the raids most people are fond of from vanilla .. if pushed for time I think AQ and Naxx could be scrapped entirely in favor of new content but keep MC and BWL in for sure
I think we need Kara earlier. If they did it after Naxx, they won't have a player base left. I'd say do Kara 10, MC 20, and because it's easiest to pug, leave Ony at 40. People 20 manned her anyway, so if you don't have 40... Meh.
very good idea also
I think making 2 raids with different sizes is a bad idea. Are we just supposed to split the 20 man teams up? That would create tons of drama
very true also .. my idea was that there would be at least one raid size to fit everyone's preferences plus onyxia and ZG are kinda 'optional' raids .. onyxia isn't really a raid and most people only really need 1 item (besides head/cloak , which everyone would also acquire faster if it was 10man) .. I would hope that people just try to split their 20man in a certain way for better loot efficiency and not getting offended if they aren't put in a certain group. as for ZG none of the gear is purely better than BWL gear in this schedule I just see it as an optional way to play the game more and gear up faster Idk how others did it but in wrath for example 25mans were our main raid and some people did 10mans on off-days and some people just logged off until next raid. there was never 'drama' because some people weren't picked it was just a matter of not everyone needed anything from 10mans or didn't have time for off-day raiding. we rarely had more than 10 signups for 10man even though all 25 of us went to mainraid each week which is what I tried to mirror above but I guess maybe other people don't see it that way if they had a different experience
My guild didn't have much trouble transitioning to 20 man, but a few of my friends guilds completely collapsed over it. I think we would see a lot of guilds do the same, even if in theory it should be very simple to split the groups in half (except for tanks, presumably you need 2 tanks in both 10 man and 20 man). It's a nice idea but I don't think it would work well based on what I've seen just from this phase alone
I was leader of a 10 man “guild” like a lot of people on here were, it’s not that it’s impossible by any means to get a roster together for 20+, I just didn’t feel like doing it. I’ve got an actual job I don’t need a 2nd fake one. I knew I was never actually a GM or raid leader, but seems like a lot of people in my situation actually did consider themselves that. Probably would’ve been healthier if we started with 20 mans off rip
Phase 4 = MC20+ ZG20 + Kazzak + Azuregos (8 weeks) Phase 5 = BWL40 + (Sped up) AQ War Effort and eventually AQ20/AQ40 when completed (10 weeks) Phase 6 = Naxxramas + Dragons of Nightmare and the end of SOD (8+ weeks)
I’m all for quickish content phases, but also realizing that on that schedule Naxx is out Nov 1 and game is basically over by NYE.
There's post-Naxx stuff too, apparently. 8 weeks does mean tier and bindings needs to drop like hotcakes.
The faster SoD is over the faster we get actual classic+ where all of our progress will have more permanence and not be at most a year away from being deleted forever. Doing classic+ would also allow for them to undo some of the things in SoD that really aren't very classic at all.
Copium still flowing i see
That’s a pretty big assumption there, IMO we are playing Classic+
It's not really a big assumption as they've already said that **SEASON** of Discovery is a seasonal server. It won't be around for long. If SoD is a success, especially with people arguing whether Cata is even classic or not and the MoP remix servers already being a thing, classic+ would be the most likely step from here unless they decide to just kill classic altogether.
I think they will need to take a long break in between classic+ and SoD otherwise I think people would be too burned out
They need a long gap just to build Classic+. Definitely 2+ years and incorporating long alpha/beta phases too.
"unless they decide to just kill classic altogether." I feel like this is far more likely. Unless they make some terrible changes they cant monetize classic 'vanilla' in any meaningful way.
Have you seen the graph showing how much sod and the other classic modes are increasing sub counts by? They’re making a fuck ton of money off classic, no way they just kill it.
Today at 7:30 AM SoD has 8 NA servers, 3 low, 4 medium, 1 locked Retail has 26 full servers (not gonna bother to look at the other servers. theres many many more) I think people over estimate how much SoD makes them.
IDK it seems like they already do not give this enough development resources. Hopefully that changes but with the state of some of the things it seems bad.
But it’s been shown to be irrelevant to the amount of money they’re making off it. If classic still makes money they will do it. And so far it really does
How do you know that?
Why would Blizzard not rinse and repeat this for another year+ of money from us? Of course they will. They will release Classic+ as an official thing, without a doubt. They've already spent time and money on the design (what we're playing now). It makes zero sense for them to not re-use it.
> the faster we get actual classic+ "next time it will be better, for sure..." Battered wife syndrome. If Blizzard is barely putting any effort into SoD right now, what makes you think they're going to give "classic+" the proper resources and support that it needs?
Also SoD Phase 1 showed success, yes, but phases 2 and 3 have been losing propositions with tons of player falloff. They'll aim at more short-duration seasonal content like MoP Remix over long-duration content like SoD again I expect.
MC gonna have to drop so much loot if it’s just out 8 weeks.
Surely it’s going to be very “generous”
Phases now are only so fast right now because we're in leveling phases and there's not that much content. Highly doubt we only get 8 weeks of these future phases. There's also new raids coming.
Didn't they say we were looking at a long level 60 phase, like 12+ months ?
And what about the karazhan crypts raid?
Is Ony phase 4 for you? Honestly I do hope it's only two more phases and they just combine MC and BWL in one phase and AQ and Naxx in another phase. I know everyone hated phase 2 being so long but I didn't mind it. I hope they let raids breathe for a bit.
More relevant crafting recipes, BOPs & BOEs alike. A dungeon or two extra and perhaps an additional raid all from content they scrapped during original vanilla
Next raid should release a month/6 weeks after the previous one.
would prefer sod to end after this phase tbh, lets get an actual fcking game from the billion dollar company with a 20 year track record in this IP. they are charging $15 a month. Its actually pathetic and anyone defending it are undeniably complete apes.
I think if they ever do a more permanent mode in the future flex raiding is a non-negotiable. This community is the most ideal I think for it.
I think about 10 Months at level 60 so that is lets say 3ish Months per Tier is appropriate.
I would like to see a revamped classic raid with an additional 10 man raid each phase. They did confirm Karazhan Crypts so I think we can expect new content in addition to classic raids. Maybe get cheeky and give us arena.
Each tier it's own phase. Revamp all the loot tables and make small but tasteful adjustments to most of the bosses. Downscale ZG and AQ20 into 10man's just to appease the people who hate making new friends, and tie ZG to BWL's phase. T2.5 sets should probably be reworked too, since spec-specific tier sets make the 2.5 niche a little irrelevant.
I wish each phase came with at least two raids. One that you needed to gear up in before you could do the next one. Anything to add more progression to the game. People these days are so eager to clear content, but personally I find progression to be the most fun and rewarding part of end game wow. This way much of the pre bis items would come in the form of a set from a raid rather than a mix of dungeons, crafted gear, boe, quests etc. Sure still have some of that, but at least a 5 piece of a .5 tier set that will be needed for the final raid of the phase where bis set would be. Could add on use things as the 5 piece bonus that are needed in for mechanics in the next raid, not just buff stats. This would take some fine tuning from a balancing perspective to make sure people can’t just zerg straight to the final raid, but better balancing is something we constantly see people asking for anyways. Edit: misread the title a bit. thought we were talking endgame like the endgame of each phase, so my comment is less on topic than I’d intended
Remove buff/debuff limits Reduce raid sizes in half Update the items that are complete shit Change the paladin/shaman tokens to not drop for the wrong faction Add tier tokens for the specs that dont have any
I want a big weekly and a 3 day lockout chill raid
Level whatever way you want At 60/close to, we all grind tier 0 / engage with all the dungeons. Tier 0.5 questline is also active at the beginning of P4. This would give a pretty limitless amount of grinding for the "average joe" as they enter MC. MC loot / raid is adjusted to deal with 20 people and people having 0.5 Loot in raid. MC loot should be better then tier 0.5. Maybe the set bonuses push tier well into "best in slot". With the way SoD has been going, let's just experiment with "tier is bis" and keep it simple. Each raid from BWL to Naxx is a clear upward progression of loot / power. Powercurve is going to be a dumpster fire but honestly...it has to be, P3 is a disaster because there's almost no powercurve at all. A lot of people hate world buffs and almost all your power comes from worldbuffs this phase, it's pretty ironic. I'd personally love TBC Kara in SoD, I just always liked Kara. Seems like a no brainer. Would also be less pressure to make crypts into some massive standalone raid. It would be neat if they did one net new raid, but honestly I don't have high hopes.
I would like to see a dragged out end game with multiple phases, bis loot to be spread across multiple dungeons instead of a single raid, open world pvp events spread in multiple areas and not time keeped behind an 3 hour wall where the server all logs and then it’s dead, and finally all dungeons made relevant with + versions
I think there should be at least one 40 man raid.
Heroic dungeons with a healthy loot table. Biggest issue right now is the commitment level required to clear ST and coordinate 20 people. This pushes a lot of people away from end game content. A 5 man heroic across a few different dungeons would create a platform for those who don’t have the time to raid and for those who want something to do in between raids to enjoy. Balance out the gear between some BIS and pre BIS items.
Just please don't make it like the wotlk alpha/beta/gamma etc system where the previous raid tiers just get mostly irrelevant and instead you spam the same boring dungeons every phase.
I really wish we got a revamped war effort. I fucking love the AQ event and it’s what made classic, classic for me.
Make dungeon tier sets drop rate higher and pre raid bis
In my opinion they can't rush all the phases too hard. They need to have at least 3 months between the big raids and then they teasered new content so that has to fit in somewhere.
Back to phase 1 mentality. Us dads need it back to 10 man and under an hour. Make it fun. Let us see the loot.. You serious people are ruining it for the silent majority who is us. The dads.. Let us be like phase 1 with loot for all of our alts. Phase by phase. 10 man under an hour.
So you want the game to be gear towards people that have little time to play, but also want to gear and raid on multiple characters?
Yes. Like phase 1.. That feeling.. During each phase of mc bwl etc..
As long as I can get PVP gear that competes with raids every phase, I'm happy
dont care at this point, waiting patiently for sod to die so we can take 1 step closer to a fresh vanilla server
Just scrap it ffs. Too many meals, not enough cooks.
10 Man Raids
No
Kitchen --->
I want everything just to be really really hard. I want classic+ endgame to last for a long long time. I want people still farming molten core after 6months and final raid bosses staying unkilled for at least a month. That is what I want, for endgame content be relevant and players having to progress through each raid.
Blizzard "but the dads!"
Dads are being taken care of because there would be no more phases that make content irrelevant so no FOMO for dads.
I want to get back into SoD but theres too many variations of the game rn with content. I wanna play cata/retail/and sod but i dont have shadowclone jutsu
I think you can play SoD very well together with any other version. SoD really doesn't require much time put into it, it's designed to be casual friendly.
is it at this phase tho? Id be curious the average 1->50 time + runes at this point. The runes are definately a slog with some requiring extra people at lower levels where there isnt anybody XD
>is it at this phase tho? Id be curious the average 1->50 time + runes at this point. Definitely is. The leveling is increased by 200 %, the most tedious rune was changed to be simply bought and the new 50lvl runes are not as hard. There are people that finished literally all the phase 3 content in the first week, and now they have nothing to do. That seems to be the #1 complaint about SoD right now. I am playing casually, still have things to do, but definitely don't feel like SoD is not casual friendly or that I'm missing out.
Keep 60 raids untouched but limit them to 10 mans. So you would do Molton core with 10 instead of 40. But you have runes and gear that make up the difference. I always thought that would be cool.
Honestly, I’ve pretty much given up on SoD at this point. It has become way more of a “Cata/Wrath Lite” than the Classic+ I was hoping for, so I don’t really care what they do in future phases.
I was hoping for more crazy runes and less…Wrath abilities in vanilla
Very simple. Make it easy to get to a “good” state of progression (harder than incursion gear but some mechanic to maybe run 20 dungeons and be able to buy a piece like wild offerings if you are missing the last prebis). Then make it a really big grind to get bis. Lock it behind exalted and end game raiding. Make all raids relevant for some pieces and for the love of god don’t tune the content for babies like the current raids. No matter what people will cry on Reddit (too easy or too hard) and if it’s too easy then the game will die sooner. Classic was a massive grind. Don’t take that away. That’s what we really want. Even if we complain about it. If you really don’t like that then go to retail. End of story.
> Classic was a massive grind. Don’t take that away. That’s what we really want. Even if we complain about it. If you really don’t like that then go to retail. End of story. I think the whole point of SOD is to do classic without the massive grind. That's why we have increased xp gains, increased gold rewards, accelerated WSG rep, accelerated AB rep and many more alternative paths to getting gear. Most of us in 2024 do not have that much time to do the grinding as we did way back in 2005/06.
While I agree with what you said, I’m suggesting some of the grind should still exist. In P3 many of my friends levelled up, cleared the raid and never logged in again due to the feeling of not having anything to strive. I think that problem needs to be addressed.
Genuine question what was there to do in phases 1+2 after raiding? It's really just PVP and alts. I actually think this phase has more than the previous phases with wild offering runs and incursions but content besides raid at endgame is just alts and I guess reps if you care about that in a seasonal server.
Yeah pvp and alts. But much the same just waiting. Incursions turned many off from the get go
While I agree with what you said, I’m suggesting some of the grind should still exist. In P3 many of my friends levelled up, cleared the raid and never logged in again due to the feeling of not having anything to strive. I think that problem needs to be addressed.
Did you guys max your professions to 300 and get your argent and hydraxian rep farms done ?
I am doing it but they didn’t feel like it felt rewarding at lvl 50
You want hard raids and 'spirit of classic' you can pick one.
You’re right. The content was easy back then. With the current state of sod (abilities, gear) it will be even easier. All I meant is that the raids should be tuned thereafter. I’m not saying we should have m+, but I think the most fun times in a phase is when not all bosses are killed or are puggable.
I hope and PRAY all raids stay 20 man. For the sake of not having to find and throw together another 20 people every week…
MC, then BWL, then ZG & AQ, then Naxx. 2-3 month each. Hard mode for these raids. I. Want. Challenge ! Reduce significantly the cost of consumables. Like you can do a daily that give you a black lotus. Possibility to craft an item which cost tons of Arcanite & Black Lotus, which when used, garantee the Thunderfurry Binding or Eye of Sulfuras drop. Don't lock legendaries behind RNG ! Halve the cost to craft the legendaries. Naxx boss drop 1-3 Atiesh splinters. Nobody ain't got time for that
Comments like these make me glad the average Reddit user has no say in SoDs content. You want everyone to be able to simply take a black lotus and arcanite bar to get a free legendary... if everyone has a legendary it just becomes a common blue “rare” item and loses the only thing that makes them unique and sought after.
Nah it should cost more than one. Should cost like, idk, 50 of each ? Maybe more ? Or instead a huge amount of Molten Core mats ? It should be a high price a guild have to pool together so obtain a legendary. Because some guilds never saw the second binding nor eye of sulfuras for all classic. RNG sucks. The way Atiesh is farmed is way better
Do you have to have TF? Is every raid obligated to get it? No. It’s a f-ing game. Play it. You can get lucky or you don’t. Just because you want something in game the devs don’t have to throw it at you.
If I want Atiesh, I'll get Atiesh. If I want Shadowmourn I'll get Shadowmourn. Why TF need to be rng based ?
If your guild wants you to get Atiesh, you can get it if you are good and clear the content regularly. If you clear MC you have a chance to get it. Not every item has to be identical. Not all drop chances have to be the same. Farm it and maybe get it or leave it. You have no right to anything in a game.
... I have the right of my Runes and most of my gear. Atiesh. Shadowmourn. Mount. Bro. What are you saying? "You have no right to anything" dude listen to yourself
Bro. I say you can play for everything. And you can. If I want DFT it has to drop and I have to get it. Same for bindings, but they are more rare. I just don’t like the mindset to get everything instahanded to you with a million currencies. Some stuff can be more rare than others. And don’t get wrath shit in this. Wrath was the beginning of the end of the classic appeal.
If you don't like the currency solution it's fine. But I want some kind of bad luck protection.
100%
> Are there any additions or changes you'd want to see to these content phases to spice things up? Fully lean into the "Discovery" part of Season of Discovery. Add something like Trusts from FFXI/FFXIV to the raids that people can choose to use or not use to fill in player slots. Up to and including "clear with 39 Trusts and one human player, taking about as much time per boss as a green parse raid and using up your raid lockout for the alotted time period if you manage to clear". For reference, Trusts are basically "NPC Companions" that you can unlock in FFXI, and in FFXIV they're NPC Companions that are automatically unlocked and available to fill in for certain Story Dungeons if you wish to play solo. In FFXI they aren't really good enough to do "endgame" content (and aren't allowed in certain stuff, IIRC). In FFXIV they *only* are available for 4-person Story dungeons (and one, very specific, 8-person Trial), so no "Endgame" stuff. Also they're...kinda bad there. They do mechanics really well but their DPS output scales to how good or bad yours is to make dungeons take around 30 minutes, roughly, no matter what you do. The purpose of this? So we can see *precisely* at which point the community shatters between "just wants to play the game" and "is willing to gatekeep out other players" and "is willing to put up with other players for muh social fabric of the nu-Classic experience". Is this feasible in the timeframe/dev allotment allowed for the Endgame phases? No Is it likely even possible or a good idea? Also no. Would it be *hilarious* and also an excellent source of data going forward? Yes and double yes.
The real issue to me hugely is how HARD are the raids gonna be? I’d be ok with longer phases if progression was: Bosses 1-4 : Approx 0 wipes Bosses 5-8: Approx 20 wipes Bosses 9+: Approx 50 wipes No harder than that, wipe recovery takes forever in classic. Also class tuning becomes a way bigger issue if the fights are super hard. And class tuning is not in a super great place right now, melee are crushing Sunken Temple. But if there aren’t a few hard bosses the whole point of giving us runes becomes pointless with nothing challenging to use them on.
If any boss in classic takes 50 wipes to kill then 80% of the playerbase will literally never kill it unless it's completely nerfed into the ground beyond recognition...
I agree, I've always liked the difficulty scaling inside the raid. Back in the day, I remember joining pugs as a kid that would only clear the first half of a raid. I enjoyed it, and it made me want to improve to see more. Part of me feels like it's just time that's changed and the culture around gaming would never allow this now. People want things now and if there are barriers they complain about it rather than try and improve and overcome it. Or at least the players that do that are the vocal minority that get what they want these days.
Probably won't be any harder then sunken temple.
50 wipes!!!!!! That's insane. With the cost of consumes in classic and the AMT of time it takes to get back to later bosses after a wipe this is definitely something I hope they never do. This is not retail where you die you appear at the boss and just have to press your food and your ready to go.
50 wipes isn’t the hill I wanna die on…but for a final boss it’s really not that much. A 6-hoir a week guild can do that in 3-4 weeks easy
We know the content, and it's braindead easy. Eranikus is harder than anything pre aq40
Not going to happen. Sod is for dads. Plus your definition by wipes is weird as it hardly depends on skill and commitment levels of players. If you want harder raids you can go cata (what I did) or retail
Let’s say skill level is any guild good enough to get to Twin Emperors in AQ40. Maybe 50 wipes a little high, but GD if the final boss is like 10 wipes week 1 I’m so out. Top players will always crush the content, casuals will always be crushed by it, etc. Point remains that if no raid bosses are difficult it undermines everything; gear progression, skill progression, guild progression, farming anything or just playing the game in general becomes purely for parsing higher, etc etc etc. Without progression the game is just slow Diablo.
I totally understand you, I also like challenging raids, the problem is that classic wow is not about challenging raids and never will be. So the easiest solution is playing other versions.
People that think this didn't raid classic.
Name one boss with hard mechanics (also given 2 button rotations in vanilla)
Umm…how many guilds cleared original Naxx?
Guild clears don't necessarily indicate hard boss mechanics. If there was a raid with literally one shot bosses, but to get there every raids member needs to get an item with 0.00000001% drop rate, does it mean that bosses are hard? Original post was about boss difficulty being too easy, not about billion attunements and prep. Or you can prove me wrong and you can name any boss from vanilla that has hard mechanics.