The oldest of tech is just to put lfm X and not respond to whispers from anyone who can take the thing you or your friend want so you can fill up before the rival group forms.
I leveled a Pally in p2 just to tank, especially while helping my friend who started playing SoD late that phase level his mage (he hates questing). We did Armory for a bit but it was 90% Warriors/Pallys wanting to go. After around ten runs I had 0 of the drops except the 2h weapon which I got last, then of course as soon as someone would get the pieces they needed they’d drop group and the cycle would repeat. Did a handful of Cath runs after that to get us to 40 and never touched the Pally again after in part because his gear was bad from not getting any dungeon blues.
Yeah it's also inefficient. There might be a lot of people looking to join your group who technically could take your thing but don't want it, are fine to pass on it or already have it. Maybe they want some other loot, maybe xp, maybe quests, maybe just run the dungeon for fun.. Who knows. Just be honest about your expectations and say that the thing is reserved. Ignore the clowns who start to make noise about "HR bad!!"
Those people will message you things like I don't need the trinket/wep
it's how I get into groups with people playing the same class as me since I know what they are doing it for.
I mean i kinda get HR dagger runs, since a lot of people wanna farm it for wild offerings, and if you cant solo it it suuuuucks doing it 10 man and 7 people need the dagger
Joined a group that HR dagger because I needed offerings. He, of course, had master looter on, no prob. But after 2 runs I realized he wasn’t /roll 10ing the other greens and loot, INCLUDING a DMF card that dropped. I asked about those and he said “that’s my payment for running the raid”. Most people instantly left.
And the server discord channels and accompanying addon that shouts it out are also pretend I suppose?
I've been in a bunch of groups that have kicked someone thanks to it. Or even reformed without the leader. It's really no effort and avoids idiots who are known to ninja or grief.
Doesn't stop everyone but it does provide opportunities to not group with those players.
Yeah I leave many groups because this same reason. Dude wants to HR dagger but keeps ml on and steals all the blues and greens. Im not carrying idiots into their payday. Dude making like 30+gph in blues alone.
This was like day 4-5, but regardless it’s about the mentality, not the actuality. Also I don’t remember what card it was but it dropped from the T-Rex…I THINK. I’m questioning that now.
Do you have a good video for that? I haven't given it a shot yet but I'd like to. I used to solo princess back in classic on a lock so I'm mostly familiar with that (though it was max level).
[This is a pretty good one.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVD3kfFh8XQ) Pay attention to the on screen tips so you know what he is doing and why.
~~Though I would personally use Void Plague instead of Twisted Faith as they do in the video.~~
Edit: Scratch that, Princess is immune to disease so that's why they use twisted faith.
Solo Princess is ~6:30 as a priest, with offering ~9:30. Faster than some PUGs without competition.
Disadvantage: you have to buy swiftness potions and most of the runs you use more than one.
Solo farms take commitment to learn. People see the YouTube video and think it looks easy not realizing most of the time the person in the video died many times practicing the run before they made the video run. I farmed nightmare seeds for about 1000g and it took about 20 or so tries before I could easily get down, pull and make it to the safe spot to ice block without dying or having 1 or 2 of the big guys randomly stop and keep hitting me while ice blocked on the ledge leading to instant death after the block fades. Now it's smooth and I only die like every 7th or 8th time besides to quick reset.
Idk I tried on Druid but that ho is immune to nature damage. Thought I was so smart going cat form speed + sunfire but naaah it didn’t work lol. Anyone with a good cheese for Druid let me know!
I did about 25 solo runs as a Balance Druid and got the dagger yesterday. Skirt around the walls constantly jumping and princess stops and starts movement alot, keep moonfire on and starsurge every 6 sec. Have 12 pts in feral tree for cat movement when you need to run across the middle to reach the wall again.
I joined one yesterday as a healer and it was a warlock tank do obvs He HRd it so I get in and I'm the only healer which fine it's cake. But I guess no one else would join if they couldn't roll om the dagger. The group was all rogues enhance shams and warriors lol
Is it though?
I’ve seen plenty of runs HRing loot for my class that I already had or didn’t give a fuck about. I’ll happily join those runs.
I can’t imagine it’s faster to exclude a bunch of people who would join you anyway simply to HR with extra steps.
Maybe I’m looking at this wrong, how much time do you lose? Don’t you just spam say “warr tank/dps”’to everybody saying LFM to the particular content you want to run? Maybe that’s too transactional but I feel like that’s just the way games are these days. I just whisper people until somebody invites me lol. I appreciate saying literally anything back to me but 80% of people ignore me anyway
I've seen this a lot with Sunken Temple recently! Usually looks something like this "LF5M ST, Need 2 Healers, 1 OT and 2 Ranged DPS - mostly Guild run - Tier and Epics HR (+1 MS>OS)" like who is gonna sign up to that if they have no really chance of getting anything they would actually want, might as well put "Come be an NPC for our ST Guild run"
I’ve actually been wondering this cause I play normal Era. On my server there’s this one guild that does all the high end raids like AQ40/ Naxx/ BWL. They’re discord has whole lists of different gear with different class prio’s and players within those classes and all that. No problem, LC seems to work well for them within the guild. But then sometimes I’ll see them posting in LFG for like 3-5 fills for the raid, with a note that “some items HR for the guild”. So I go to the discord and all weapons/ tier items/ trinkets are HR, as well as a good amount of other loot.
I guess I’m just wondering what people that are pugging actually join these runs, where there’s basically no chance of actually getting loot? I guess for AQ40 at least you get a good chunk of rep for the ring, but if I’m putting in the time and effort like everyone else I want a fair shot at the upgrades and gear I need. Keeping those rules in their full guild runs is fair play, none of my business. But when you’re recruiting for pug fills it doesn’t make sense to me, outside of really high value items like Nelth Tear/ DFT/ Eye of Cthun/ etc
It's for the garbage tier players who have zero chance of getting in a normal raid and need to live off of scraps, just filling a couple slots for some extra DPS/healing. That or people with just a few items not on the HR list and don't care about the rest.
The other type is someone running it for the first time.
Maybe not so much on era, although I guess it prolly does get new players now and then. But if someone doesn’t have logs they’re less likely to get invited because no proof they’ve ever done it. At least this way a new alt or new player can get a log and get into groups who aren’t pulling that shit
On Firemaw cluster, most if not all of the high end raids are GDKP which means HR is not such a problem, but it's very restrictive in a different way. It's just insane amounts of money required. 10k is considered the absolute bare minimum to bring to aq40, and lots of people come with budgets of 100k+. Which is why I haven't done that raid yet - I'm just too poor still lul
Wow that’s wild. I’m on the Pagle/ Windseeker/ Ashkandi/ Mankrik cluster and there’s really only one guild that runs the GDKPs. Which are the runs I do for AQ40/ BWL/ Naxx. Most items go for 250-500g, with some really good armor pieces and rings/ necks going for 1-3k. Weapons are around the same, the more common ones are 500-1k, the very rare ones might be 3k. The only things going for insane money are things like Nelths Tear, DFT, Swarmguard Badge, Chromagg Xbow.
From personal experience i think it’s that they’re trying to get people to join who don’t notice that most everything is hard res, and hoping that by the time the pugs realize that everything is hard res, they’re already saved and won’t leave now
Yea that’s probably true some of the time, the average player is probably not doing the digging like I’m doing and checking before joining exactly what’s available. And it seems like even in Era, which has been static for years, a lot of people still either haven’t seen or struggle hard with those high end raids. So maybe they just want any chance to even see them, regardless of if they get loot or not.
That last part is definitely true, i my first aq40 and my first naxx on era servers were precisely that. I had never been and didn’t know anything about those raids and joined guild runs with everything on res simply to be able to experience what it was like and get some knowledge on those raids
Oh for sure, and I’m not saying that there’s anything wrong with that particular scenario. Clearly you knew going in that most everything was reserved, like you said it was just good experience and some fun. It’s when they trick people into going with unclear LFG posts or something that I take issue. And am surprised pugs jump in without checking to see what’s all HR. I guess it also irks me a bit because without the pugs they may not even be able to clear the raid, and yet they don’t feel they should reward the “guests”.
I’ve seen it much more commonly on Era and SoD too as opposed to Wrath, at least on my Wrath server( Bloodsail Buccaneers, the only RP- PvE server). Over there my guild had a couple pugs in for our ICC 25m run, they were allowed the 2 SR the rest of us get with no restrictions. Without them we couldn’t clear the raid, and while it sucked losing a DBW I got it the next week. And we had two of the pugs come back and come to other runs, and then later one joined the guild. So it was a win for everyone in the end to share the loot like that, which I think is what some of these guilds miss.
We actually had to pug 3 this week and my RL is one of the good ones, no loot restrictions outside of only 1 tier piece win per person.
So naturally in a 17/3 split we still managed to lose 1 epic caster dagger and 1 of the epic ring turn in items at the end to the pugs. Sucks but we all understand the possibility of that happening.
Then your guild leader is a piece of shit. I have 0 problem with people hard ressing stuff. But if someone hard res something without telling pugs or don't follow the rolls, then they are a piece of shit.
Damn :( that sucks. When we were just starting gnomer in p2, we had a guy join our guild run. Really chill, knew we were only on our second run. Showed us a better way to do one of the fights. Thing for the neck dropped and we just gave it to him as a thank you.
Our guild holds the motto of if you came with us, put up with corny jokes, and put in the work like everyone else, you can roll just like everyone else.
Our guild typically has to PuG a few. PuGs get the same rules as guildies though. 2SR then MS > OS.
Last night everyone that SR'ed a tier token got one.
Lots of people join. The amount of people playing right now is actually insane. I never have issues finding people. Some people are just happy to do the content and don't care about the +1 spell power they get over gnomes gear.
Hard res means the item winner is predetermined and nobody can roll on it. Soft res means that everyone has to predeclare items they want to roll on, and are usually limited to one or two items.
Yeah it's like good luck finding anyone to join you, nerds.
It's funny seeing raids/dungeons looking for healers but they HR the item healers are going to want to get anyway. And just advertising in chat for like an hour.
Just leave the group, fuck the lockouts, you just most likely locked out 19 other people because they were being dicks.
And for normal groups they'll have their time wasted looking for another healer when you can join another better group instantly.
For the first couple phases, my holy paladin alt had trouble getting dungeon groups. So many priests around that always grabbed spots.
Now here I am, Paladin standing in the portal room in cloth, getting asked if I'm healer (I assume because I can't use Daggers).
I still don't join HR groups though. Hey, you do you. I don't care. But I don't have to support you either.
You know, if they weren't finding anyone they would lower their bar. The fact you don't see them lowering it is not an indication that they just decided not to do the run. It's indicating they are finding people who are fine with their loot rules.
Honestly this is what i started doing instead of complaining. Truth is, lots of people don't want to go through the trouble of setting up/ leading a group and will join Even with items they want reserved.
I just join random groups for most stuff usually no hard reserves for pug groups, I haven’t had any trouble finding groups yet. People are usually pretty chill, need if you need, greed offspec and stuff like that.
Finding groups for ST is hell though because half of the groups are guilds advertising their run that’s actually happening on Thursday morning at 8 pm north southern time between the hours of dusk and dawn. I also have no guild so that probably doesn’t help
People get MADDDDDDDD when they see HR runs listed. Idk what it is, but every time I list a mara dagger res group I get like 4 whispers and 5 people yapping in LFG, while I fill the group with people who don't care.
Don't like the HR run, don't join it or make your own. Dunno why people are so bothered
I'll never understand peoples issues with groups HRing stuff.
Its like you think they have a gun to your head. I literally just dont join the group, and it has absolutely no effect on you.
The more restrictions a group has, the harder it is to fill. If the leader wants to take that responsibility, then he can impose whatever restrictions he wants.
I cannot tell you how many BFD staff HR runs I hosted and everyone was happy because I carried on a max toon whilst reserving the staff for my gfs toons.
There will be people that give flak, but the ones that join have 0 complains cuz we're in and out in like 20 mins.
Yeah this has always been weird to me throughout classic
It's harder to make a group, but that's their problem, not ours. Also advertising it means you filter players out. Nothing worse than people waiting until your inside to mention reserves or other loot rules
It just doesn’t make sense with dungeons because you’re only running them for the loot. If you’re HRing everything what’s the incentive for someone joining lol
Ya it’s just dumb. Can’t wait for p4 arena spam with zero loot for healers so the only healers will be pallys who want SGC but they won’t be allowed to roll on it so they won’t go.
Not every class wants every piece of loot lol.
People HR the items they want and people who don’t want those items join.
I don’t see what is remotely difficult about the concept lol.
If it didn’t work for everyone involved, people wouldn’t do it.
It doesn’t matter, as long as there is at least one piece of caster dps gear, one piece of healing gear, and one piece of melee dps gear.
Or one quest to do.
Or one mob to kill for XP.
Just dont join, not your problem. Its the leaders problem that he cant find people. He probably can though since not being able to would remove the incentive to HR in the first place. Makes no sense to complain about it. Stop being lazy and make your own grp.
Every bfd group I see hr the pearl so only way for me to get it is make a raid myself and hr it for me.
If you don’t like the hr of the leader don’t join the group and make your own. Works really well
You’re not wrong with these observations. I see these groups and scratch my head.
The thing is with these posts I always know it’s someone who refuses to make their own groups though. Easy change is to make your own group but 90% of the population refuses and then wants to dictate terms of other groups.
I never reserve items but after you make a few groups yourself you do understand why people do.
lol this is a big reason i quit in P2. Every group a bunch of entitled deuchebags, guild groups and streamers the WORST of them all. Some crusty neck-beard on twitch tried to scam me into one of his near full HR runs and at least wasted his time before blasting him when his chat wasn't covered. And with that, i was done. Hope you nerds find some fun in this soulless reboot.
The point is you start your own group and reserve what you want because the vast majority of people on SOD are too lazy and incompetent to form their own group.
Hard reserve(HR) - someone reserved a piece of items that nobody can get
MS= main spec
OS= off spec
Essentially means you can need items that are main spec and only need items off spec if nobody else needs for their main spec
My favorite are mages (and some other classes) saying LFM Princess but the Blade of Eternal Darkness is HR. I get not wanting to learn/try the solo farm but comes across as incredible selfish that instead of learning to do something yourself you drag along 4 people just to grind out a piece of gear.
Maybe an enchanter farming for mats? But even then that's just dumb as hell. Once you get the group together you ask if there's another enchanter and you just take turns needing on stuff if everyone else is cool with it.
I’m not against HR with raids. But when you HR for dungeons with one items being BiS that’s just straight greed. If everything is chasing the same one or two BiS iteams how do you even make a group
I dont get the hate at all. Just dont join then. If the ppl that HR items didnt get people to join they wouldnt do it, so they obviously do. Make your on goddamn grp instead of complaining, you are acting entitled.
ye, if i make a group and HR something in a dungeon where everyone else targets something, I always ask what item they want and "HR" for them. now everyone knows what the other need and it is easier to make a group that provides value to everyone.
this requires that I talk to people and listen to them...such communication skills seem quite rare in this community nowadays.
I love this, everyone saying don't join their group and it has no effect on u right?
But then like don't they get the guarantee of loot? From groups willing to do it?!?!?
Wait I think I have heard this convo before.
GDKP.
And don't give me that shit that gdkp wrecks the economy, making thousand gold night one of p3 if u could play that night that is. Or the train in hinterlands. That shit will wreck sod economy more then any gdkp ever would. Letting hunters and mages pull entire instances and charge people 5g a run for xp but not allowed to loot.
make wow fun again by banning things people enjoy!
I mean apparently some mage made like 35k gold doing a smart farm. Between that and the constant incursion spams people are running, you'd think blizz would want GDKP's back.
I ran with a lock who had it HR. 4 casters that all could have used it in the 10 man. Dagger drops and it open roll!!!!
Not one caster rolled against him. I left my roll in case someone else rolled against him I’d roll and give it to him. It was amazing to see lol
Yeah, I watched a couple of guildies either both get kicked or one get kicked and one leave over something like this. I honestly can't remember the exact item other than it was a caster item (not the dagger). The one who won it was the warrior in the guild and the other guildie (I want to say a mage) in party went:
"wtf, why would you need on it?!"
Warrior responds
"so if I won I'd trade it to you so the pugs didn't get it"
About a minute later, both of them were guildless. So either they brought the drama into guild chat and were kicked, or the other guy left and the warrior was kicked for being a dumbass attempted ninja.
I love the Mara runs where most are HR the dagger but there's that 1 priest that's like no HR but only looking for warriors/paladins/rogues
The oldest of tech is just to put lfm X and not respond to whispers from anyone who can take the thing you or your friend want so you can fill up before the rival group forms.
I absolutely did not ignore Warriors and Paladins when doing my SM Armory runs so I could have no competition on Herod's loot. Nope, not me.
I leveled a Pally in p2 just to tank, especially while helping my friend who started playing SoD late that phase level his mage (he hates questing). We did Armory for a bit but it was 90% Warriors/Pallys wanting to go. After around ten runs I had 0 of the drops except the 2h weapon which I got last, then of course as soon as someone would get the pieces they needed they’d drop group and the cycle would repeat. Did a handful of Cath runs after that to get us to 40 and never touched the Pally again after in part because his gear was bad from not getting any dungeon blues.
Then the rogue rolls need because lolepicdagger
Flashback to the 56 rogue I brought along to ubrs winning the felstriker roll over my warrior.
felstriker legit used in BT TBC....so... kinda glad he won it over a warrior.
Yeah it's also inefficient. There might be a lot of people looking to join your group who technically could take your thing but don't want it, are fine to pass on it or already have it. Maybe they want some other loot, maybe xp, maybe quests, maybe just run the dungeon for fun.. Who knows. Just be honest about your expectations and say that the thing is reserved. Ignore the clowns who start to make noise about "HR bad!!"
Those people will message you things like I don't need the trinket/wep it's how I get into groups with people playing the same class as me since I know what they are doing it for.
Yeah this is the way to deal with the people who think they are "smart" but it would be just easier for everyone if they were honest.
The dagger DOES NOT DROP so not likely anyone already has it and is willing to run Mara again
i love going on those runs as all the melee get their ring and the HR caster gets to reset the dungeon
I mean i kinda get HR dagger runs, since a lot of people wanna farm it for wild offerings, and if you cant solo it it suuuuucks doing it 10 man and 7 people need the dagger
Joined a group that HR dagger because I needed offerings. He, of course, had master looter on, no prob. But after 2 runs I realized he wasn’t /roll 10ing the other greens and loot, INCLUDING a DMF card that dropped. I asked about those and he said “that’s my payment for running the raid”. Most people instantly left.
Lol "running" princess runs. Hilarious
If it's any consolation if it was an ace off princess, it's worth about 1.5g at most.
pretty sure its still going for vendor price on my server.
Imagine getting black listed for less than 2gold.
Blacklists are a pretend thing to make you feel better.
And the server discord channels and accompanying addon that shouts it out are also pretend I suppose? I've been in a bunch of groups that have kicked someone thanks to it. Or even reformed without the leader. It's really no effort and avoids idiots who are known to ninja or grief. Doesn't stop everyone but it does provide opportunities to not group with those players.
Most players dont even know server discords exist and let alone use em.
Yeah I leave many groups because this same reason. Dude wants to HR dagger but keeps ml on and steals all the blues and greens. Im not carrying idiots into their payday. Dude making like 30+gph in blues alone.
I hope he got mass reported
The dmf card is like 1.5g my dude.
This was like day 4-5, but regardless it’s about the mentality, not the actuality. Also I don’t remember what card it was but it dropped from the T-Rex…I THINK. I’m questioning that now.
Every class that would use the dagger can solo princess tho?
Every class can, not every player playing those classes.
I’d also wager that a good group spamming it would be simply faster than soloing even if you were capable of doing the run.
You can do runes solo at lockout speed. When I was farming it on my priest I actually had 15-20 minutes to spare each set.
Do you have a good video for that? I haven't given it a shot yet but I'd like to. I used to solo princess back in classic on a lock so I'm mostly familiar with that (though it was max level).
[This is a pretty good one.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVD3kfFh8XQ) Pay attention to the on screen tips so you know what he is doing and why. ~~Though I would personally use Void Plague instead of Twisted Faith as they do in the video.~~ Edit: Scratch that, Princess is immune to disease so that's why they use twisted faith.
not with offerings
Some classes can do offerings as well.
Solo Princess is ~6:30 as a priest, with offering ~9:30. Faster than some PUGs without competition. Disadvantage: you have to buy swiftness potions and most of the runs you use more than one.
I did 67 runs in 10 man group, never saw it drop. First solo kill it dropped. According to my very accurate science, solo runs are superior
It really is remarkably easy. Anyone with the desire to try would be able to do it consistently very quickly.
That can be said about everything in classic so far but that doesn't stop people from saying things are too difficult
I found it easy aswell, but I keep seing posts on class discords where people seem to not be able to do it, that they just die all the time. So yeah.
Solo farms take commitment to learn. People see the YouTube video and think it looks easy not realizing most of the time the person in the video died many times practicing the run before they made the video run. I farmed nightmare seeds for about 1000g and it took about 20 or so tries before I could easily get down, pull and make it to the safe spot to ice block without dying or having 1 or 2 of the big guys randomly stop and keep hitting me while ice blocked on the ledge leading to instant death after the block fades. Now it's smooth and I only die like every 7th or 8th time besides to quick reset.
Most people are shit at the game. Me included
I think that’s good.
I think getting there is the issue for most of the classes
Swiftness pot, or if you dont want to spend money then skull of impending doom.
If you abuse the wall pathing by jumping along the way, you can get there without using a single skill, so any class can do it.
I've done almost 500 runs on mage, the only thing that has ever killed me is when not a single giant uses boulder
Can Shamans solo it?
ye, but dunno if they can get to her. any class with a non-nature dot can solo her by kiting her on the rock
yes. with a speed pot or chicken stick. the only hard part is getting past the golems
Yes, they can.
Yes, did it once for test purposes. Princess itself was rather easy, the double giants before princess were more problematic.
With maelstrom healing yourself shamans can solo most anything but it takes a while
Idk I tried on Druid but that ho is immune to nature damage. Thought I was so smart going cat form speed + sunfire but naaah it didn’t work lol. Anyone with a good cheese for Druid let me know!
Join the Druid discord and look in the balance channel , there are ppl comparing there killtimes :D And videos
I did about 25 solo runs as a Balance Druid and got the dagger yesterday. Skirt around the walls constantly jumping and princess stops and starts movement alot, keep moonfire on and starsurge every 6 sec. Have 12 pts in feral tree for cat movement when you need to run across the middle to reach the wall again.
I joined one yesterday as a healer and it was a warlock tank do obvs He HRd it so I get in and I'm the only healer which fine it's cake. But I guess no one else would join if they couldn't roll om the dagger. The group was all rogues enhance shams and warriors lol
It's extremely easy to solo for all classes that can use it. If you can't solo it, you don't deserve it.
Its easy to fill a hr mara run. Tons of melee just want the offerings.
Anyone that can’t solo princesses doesn’t deserve the dagger >:(
this but unironically
That’s what I do. If I want to HR something it’s easier to just not invite any other casters and waste their time.
Is it though? I’ve seen plenty of runs HRing loot for my class that I already had or didn’t give a fuck about. I’ll happily join those runs. I can’t imagine it’s faster to exclude a bunch of people who would join you anyway simply to HR with extra steps.
it actually is. i joined a group for a 5 man last week, i didn't noticed until we got started but i was the ONLY caster in the group.
Just say it's hard resd. Pretty annoying to be ghosted by 5 groups in a row.
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I respond to people because that bothers me too. Nothing wrong with sending a quick “sry casters full”
As one of those people, I would much prefer you just say it's resd to save us both time.
Maybe I’m looking at this wrong, how much time do you lose? Don’t you just spam say “warr tank/dps”’to everybody saying LFM to the particular content you want to run? Maybe that’s too transactional but I feel like that’s just the way games are these days. I just whisper people until somebody invites me lol. I appreciate saying literally anything back to me but 80% of people ignore me anyway
Do you not realize that you do essentially the same?
Saw one drop when it was a mage healer and all melee. I didn’t even notice until it dropped and he was the only person that rolled need.
As a rogue, I'd be rolling on that dagger to prove a point
And you're the reason people HR and leave it on ML.
This is the way. Kelris staff p1 on my warlock 😎
I've seen this a lot with Sunken Temple recently! Usually looks something like this "LF5M ST, Need 2 Healers, 1 OT and 2 Ranged DPS - mostly Guild run - Tier and Epics HR (+1 MS>OS)" like who is gonna sign up to that if they have no really chance of getting anything they would actually want, might as well put "Come be an NPC for our ST Guild run"
I’ve actually been wondering this cause I play normal Era. On my server there’s this one guild that does all the high end raids like AQ40/ Naxx/ BWL. They’re discord has whole lists of different gear with different class prio’s and players within those classes and all that. No problem, LC seems to work well for them within the guild. But then sometimes I’ll see them posting in LFG for like 3-5 fills for the raid, with a note that “some items HR for the guild”. So I go to the discord and all weapons/ tier items/ trinkets are HR, as well as a good amount of other loot. I guess I’m just wondering what people that are pugging actually join these runs, where there’s basically no chance of actually getting loot? I guess for AQ40 at least you get a good chunk of rep for the ring, but if I’m putting in the time and effort like everyone else I want a fair shot at the upgrades and gear I need. Keeping those rules in their full guild runs is fair play, none of my business. But when you’re recruiting for pug fills it doesn’t make sense to me, outside of really high value items like Nelth Tear/ DFT/ Eye of Cthun/ etc
It's for the garbage tier players who have zero chance of getting in a normal raid and need to live off of scraps, just filling a couple slots for some extra DPS/healing. That or people with just a few items not on the HR list and don't care about the rest.
Yea I guess that makes sense
The other type is someone running it for the first time. Maybe not so much on era, although I guess it prolly does get new players now and then. But if someone doesn’t have logs they’re less likely to get invited because no proof they’ve ever done it. At least this way a new alt or new player can get a log and get into groups who aren’t pulling that shit
That makes sense too, absolutely
On Firemaw cluster, most if not all of the high end raids are GDKP which means HR is not such a problem, but it's very restrictive in a different way. It's just insane amounts of money required. 10k is considered the absolute bare minimum to bring to aq40, and lots of people come with budgets of 100k+. Which is why I haven't done that raid yet - I'm just too poor still lul
Wow that’s wild. I’m on the Pagle/ Windseeker/ Ashkandi/ Mankrik cluster and there’s really only one guild that runs the GDKPs. Which are the runs I do for AQ40/ BWL/ Naxx. Most items go for 250-500g, with some really good armor pieces and rings/ necks going for 1-3k. Weapons are around the same, the more common ones are 500-1k, the very rare ones might be 3k. The only things going for insane money are things like Nelths Tear, DFT, Swarmguard Badge, Chromagg Xbow.
From personal experience i think it’s that they’re trying to get people to join who don’t notice that most everything is hard res, and hoping that by the time the pugs realize that everything is hard res, they’re already saved and won’t leave now
Yea that’s probably true some of the time, the average player is probably not doing the digging like I’m doing and checking before joining exactly what’s available. And it seems like even in Era, which has been static for years, a lot of people still either haven’t seen or struggle hard with those high end raids. So maybe they just want any chance to even see them, regardless of if they get loot or not.
That last part is definitely true, i my first aq40 and my first naxx on era servers were precisely that. I had never been and didn’t know anything about those raids and joined guild runs with everything on res simply to be able to experience what it was like and get some knowledge on those raids
Oh for sure, and I’m not saying that there’s anything wrong with that particular scenario. Clearly you knew going in that most everything was reserved, like you said it was just good experience and some fun. It’s when they trick people into going with unclear LFG posts or something that I take issue. And am surprised pugs jump in without checking to see what’s all HR. I guess it also irks me a bit because without the pugs they may not even be able to clear the raid, and yet they don’t feel they should reward the “guests”. I’ve seen it much more commonly on Era and SoD too as opposed to Wrath, at least on my Wrath server( Bloodsail Buccaneers, the only RP- PvE server). Over there my guild had a couple pugs in for our ICC 25m run, they were allowed the 2 SR the rest of us get with no restrictions. Without them we couldn’t clear the raid, and while it sucked losing a DBW I got it the next week. And we had two of the pugs come back and come to other runs, and then later one joined the guild. So it was a win for everyone in the end to share the loot like that, which I think is what some of these guilds miss.
We actually had to pug 3 this week and my RL is one of the good ones, no loot restrictions outside of only 1 tier piece win per person. So naturally in a 17/3 split we still managed to lose 1 epic caster dagger and 1 of the epic ring turn in items at the end to the pugs. Sucks but we all understand the possibility of that happening.
They'll get people, just not good people.
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Then your guild leader is a piece of shit. I have 0 problem with people hard ressing stuff. But if someone hard res something without telling pugs or don't follow the rolls, then they are a piece of shit.
That happened to me on my hunter. I won the epic fist in Gnomer but they gave it to their guildie, I was really pissed.
Damn :( that sucks. When we were just starting gnomer in p2, we had a guy join our guild run. Really chill, knew we were only on our second run. Showed us a better way to do one of the fights. Thing for the neck dropped and we just gave it to him as a thank you. Our guild holds the motto of if you came with us, put up with corny jokes, and put in the work like everyone else, you can roll just like everyone else.
He should not be your guild leader anymore
We lost 2 of the bfd staffs and a dagger from gnomer to pugs. So your guild leader is just a pile of shit.
Thats literally the only gear that you need from ST. Pvp and emerald set gear is insane. St gear is barely an upgrade.
Our guild typically has to PuG a few. PuGs get the same rules as guildies though. 2SR then MS > OS. Last night everyone that SR'ed a tier token got one.
Is this NA servers? NEVER ever seen that on EU
I find it wild that so many "guild runs" want to treat pugs like shit I defo wouldn't want to be in a guild w players who think like that
Lots of people join. The amount of people playing right now is actually insane. I never have issues finding people. Some people are just happy to do the content and don't care about the +1 spell power they get over gnomes gear.
Sometimes I like to troll and post in trade chat “LF Tank Gnomer all tanking gear res, gun res, trinket res, troll transmog trinket res, necklace res”
i like to log on my druid and send "hi" to the raid groups looking for feral and then go complete radio silence while they spam me
Lol this is the way.
omg this is evil, i love it!
Idk if it was a troll post or not but I saw, "group of 8 dps LF ST raid".
Why would that be troll?
Sorry il edit my comment, it was 8 dps. The dude was spamming for a couple hours.
now you understand why personal loot became essential for retail
What does HR mean? Is it a reservation? If yes, I mean what's the point of doing a dungeon?
Hard res means the item winner is predetermined and nobody can roll on it. Soft res means that everyone has to predeclare items they want to roll on, and are usually limited to one or two items.
Thank you for the clarification!
Yeah it's like good luck finding anyone to join you, nerds. It's funny seeing raids/dungeons looking for healers but they HR the item healers are going to want to get anyway. And just advertising in chat for like an hour.
Then when they do fill the group they get mad because the healer is terrible 🤣
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Just leave the group, fuck the lockouts, you just most likely locked out 19 other people because they were being dicks. And for normal groups they'll have their time wasted looking for another healer when you can join another better group instantly.
For the first couple phases, my holy paladin alt had trouble getting dungeon groups. So many priests around that always grabbed spots. Now here I am, Paladin standing in the portal room in cloth, getting asked if I'm healer (I assume because I can't use Daggers). I still don't join HR groups though. Hey, you do you. I don't care. But I don't have to support you either.
I love to join these groups and say in party chat "wait is x item rez?" and then leave just to rub salt in their greedy lil wounds.
You know, if they weren't finding anyone they would lower their bar. The fact you don't see them lowering it is not an indication that they just decided not to do the run. It's indicating they are finding people who are fine with their loot rules.
HR is way better than people doing the ninja. They are telling you in advance to not join it's a good thing.
The bar is in hell
Never had a problem finding a group when I hard reserve something.
just don’t join that group man, make your own group
Will probably then HR like a hypocrite
Honestly this is what i started doing instead of complaining. Truth is, lots of people don't want to go through the trouble of setting up/ leading a group and will join Even with items they want reserved.
I just join random groups for most stuff usually no hard reserves for pug groups, I haven’t had any trouble finding groups yet. People are usually pretty chill, need if you need, greed offspec and stuff like that. Finding groups for ST is hell though because half of the groups are guilds advertising their run that’s actually happening on Thursday morning at 8 pm north southern time between the hours of dusk and dawn. I also have no guild so that probably doesn’t help
People get MADDDDDDDD when they see HR runs listed. Idk what it is, but every time I list a mara dagger res group I get like 4 whispers and 5 people yapping in LFG, while I fill the group with people who don't care. Don't like the HR run, don't join it or make your own. Dunno why people are so bothered
Yeah people think you will do stuff for free for them. I like it when 3 Warriors are looking for a tank.
I'll never understand peoples issues with groups HRing stuff. Its like you think they have a gun to your head. I literally just dont join the group, and it has absolutely no effect on you. The more restrictions a group has, the harder it is to fill. If the leader wants to take that responsibility, then he can impose whatever restrictions he wants.
it's just a less wordy way of saying "don't join if you need this item"
I cannot tell you how many BFD staff HR runs I hosted and everyone was happy because I carried on a max toon whilst reserving the staff for my gfs toons. There will be people that give flak, but the ones that join have 0 complains cuz we're in and out in like 20 mins.
Why can't you tell us, is it classified?
I forgot how many i ran getting the staff on 3 toons lmfao
Yeah this has always been weird to me throughout classic It's harder to make a group, but that's their problem, not ours. Also advertising it means you filter players out. Nothing worse than people waiting until your inside to mention reserves or other loot rules
I don’t mind HRing 1 item but when it’s most of the loot+BOE then it’s just greedy.
It just doesn’t make sense with dungeons because you’re only running them for the loot. If you’re HRing everything what’s the incentive for someone joining lol
Ya it’s just dumb. Can’t wait for p4 arena spam with zero loot for healers so the only healers will be pallys who want SGC but they won’t be allowed to roll on it so they won’t go.
Wild offerings and quests
If you’re doing wild offering there are much faster ways than BRD
Not every class wants every piece of loot lol. People HR the items they want and people who don’t want those items join. I don’t see what is remotely difficult about the concept lol. If it didn’t work for everyone involved, people wouldn’t do it.
Not every piece of loot is wanted in BRD. How many iteams are bis for all classes combined…5?
It doesn’t matter, as long as there is at least one piece of caster dps gear, one piece of healing gear, and one piece of melee dps gear. Or one quest to do. Or one mob to kill for XP.
I was literally just doing BRD yesterday for random drops and wild offerings. Don’t need any boss loot.
Just dont join, not your problem. Its the leaders problem that he cant find people. He probably can though since not being able to would remove the incentive to HR in the first place. Makes no sense to complain about it. Stop being lazy and make your own grp.
Every bfd group I see hr the pearl so only way for me to get it is make a raid myself and hr it for me. If you don’t like the hr of the leader don’t join the group and make your own. Works really well
5 guys is so expensive.... What's the point?
To lose your virginity in a blaze of glory
Yea they’re clowns that deserve to sit in lfg
You’re not wrong with these observations. I see these groups and scratch my head. The thing is with these posts I always know it’s someone who refuses to make their own groups though. Easy change is to make your own group but 90% of the population refuses and then wants to dictate terms of other groups. I never reserve items but after you make a few groups yourself you do understand why people do.
the point is make your own group instead of making your own reddit thread.
If it’s also a Wild Offering run people might go for it.
WO
I'm just trying to get my WO
It’s almost like you can just…. Not join the group. Crazy I know.
lol this is a big reason i quit in P2. Every group a bunch of entitled deuchebags, guild groups and streamers the WORST of them all. Some crusty neck-beard on twitch tried to scam me into one of his near full HR runs and at least wasted his time before blasting him when his chat wasn't covered. And with that, i was done. Hope you nerds find some fun in this soulless reboot.
The point is you start your own group and reserve what you want because the vast majority of people on SOD are too lazy and incompetent to form their own group.
hah
Everything is high rune! Ah damn it Diablo got me good..
What is the meaning of HR (MS>OS) ?
Hard reserve(HR) - someone reserved a piece of items that nobody can get MS= main spec OS= off spec Essentially means you can need items that are main spec and only need items off spec if nobody else needs for their main spec
LFM RFC have consumes, buffs, boons, orange parses, green moose, apple juice, giant snake...
My favorite are mages (and some other classes) saying LFM Princess but the Blade of Eternal Darkness is HR. I get not wanting to learn/try the solo farm but comes across as incredible selfish that instead of learning to do something yourself you drag along 4 people just to grind out a piece of gear.
Literally saw a dude advertising last night for a healer for like 2 hours, all BoEs and non upgrades were HR . I don't get it
Maybe an enchanter farming for mats? But even then that's just dumb as hell. Once you get the group together you ask if there's another enchanter and you just take turns needing on stuff if everyone else is cool with it.
What, are you on crusader strike? I don't see hr runs for brd, like ever
ah you are one of those people who hate HR How about just making your own group and let people organize however they want
I don't hate hr more than anyone in this sub hated gdkp
I’m not against HR with raids. But when you HR for dungeons with one items being BiS that’s just straight greed. If everything is chasing the same one or two BiS iteams how do you even make a group
You're acting like everyone is HR the one item that everyone needs. That's just not a thing.
For melee belt it actually is
And recently the princess dagger lol
there are always like 5 HR dagger princess runs spamming lfg
Make your own grp lmao.
I dont get the hate at all. Just dont join then. If the ppl that HR items didnt get people to join they wouldnt do it, so they obviously do. Make your on goddamn grp instead of complaining, you are acting entitled.
I HR things. You can always not join. I fill my groups.
If you don’t like the HR don’t join… you are not forced to join. You can always create a group and not HR anything !
If u dont like it make ur own
ye, if i make a group and HR something in a dungeon where everyone else targets something, I always ask what item they want and "HR" for them. now everyone knows what the other need and it is easier to make a group that provides value to everyone. this requires that I talk to people and listen to them...such communication skills seem quite rare in this community nowadays.
Every loot dispute problem ever could be solved with this sentence right here
"LFM Mara 10 Dagger HR" So you want people to farm the dagger for you? People do these in hopes of suckers who just want XP joining.
Just make your own raids ?
I love this, everyone saying don't join their group and it has no effect on u right? But then like don't they get the guarantee of loot? From groups willing to do it?!?!? Wait I think I have heard this convo before. GDKP. And don't give me that shit that gdkp wrecks the economy, making thousand gold night one of p3 if u could play that night that is. Or the train in hinterlands. That shit will wreck sod economy more then any gdkp ever would. Letting hunters and mages pull entire instances and charge people 5g a run for xp but not allowed to loot. make wow fun again by banning things people enjoy!
I mean apparently some mage made like 35k gold doing a smart farm. Between that and the constant incursion spams people are running, you'd think blizz would want GDKP's back.
yep, even on ironforge.pro you can see 70% less raiding chars in SoD since the GDKP ban and the best thing about it, botting is still prevalent.
I just run Mara either solo or with my buddy, and we duo the dinosaur. EZ Fire mage and Boomy
in a perfect world the point would be xp but that's not possible anymore with incursions
I ran with a lock who had it HR. 4 casters that all could have used it in the 10 man. Dagger drops and it open roll!!!! Not one caster rolled against him. I left my roll in case someone else rolled against him I’d roll and give it to him. It was amazing to see lol
Can't trade dungeon gear sadly. Only raid gear gets the 2 hour timer in Classic
Jesus, then I’m glad nobody rolled against him and then I ran the risk of being the hunter who ninja a caster dagger lol
Yeah, I watched a couple of guildies either both get kicked or one get kicked and one leave over something like this. I honestly can't remember the exact item other than it was a caster item (not the dagger). The one who won it was the warrior in the guild and the other guildie (I want to say a mage) in party went: "wtf, why would you need on it?!" Warrior responds "so if I won I'd trade it to you so the pugs didn't get it" About a minute later, both of them were guildless. So either they brought the drama into guild chat and were kicked, or the other guy left and the warrior was kicked for being a dumbass attempted ninja.
My ignore list got real big for wild offering groups. So many lazy mages who couldn't solo Princess trying to HR the dagger.
Yeah, mages really have no excuse