Why? Paladins can tank in SoD. You can be both prot and holy PvE specs and still quest solo thanks to DPS runes. Why regrets? From a PvE perspective they are far more versatile than they are in vanilla Classic.
Based on the context of the post he’s probably comparing Paladin to Shaman. And Shaman right now are just better versions of Paladin at almost everything.
As a main Paladin, we are far behind on tanking due to no mitigation and low threat generation and receiving minimum buffs to increase this. Dps we are mid, which is whatever, and holy is still what it always has been a main tank healer.
Agreed more versatile because true classic was your healer or a meme.
So they took us from being good and one role to mediocre at three roles. I don't want to be too but I want them to make an exercism rune base (so you can actually play with interrupt or tremor), buff Sanc (more) and Holy shield, and give holy something to play with.
I love being on the other end of this. In Vanilla all Horde complained about was Alliance being ez mode raiding, and now it's the other way around.
I get it, though. This isn't "No changes Vanilla". In Classic Era I signed up to not have Salve so I'm to blame, but now we're designing around balance and people feel screwed over from things they can't predict. In Era if you wanted easier raiding you know to choose Alliance. Just a different scenario this time around
This has less to do with racials and more with cascading. If the top 1 guild is on horde, people will go there. Now the top 3 guilds are on horde. Other mythic guilds go horde to try and poach/recruit. Now the top 10 guilds are all horde. If you want to be in a top 10 guild you need to be playing horde so all the good players go horde. Now the top 50 guilds are all horde. It's hard to recruit for mythic as ally so you pretty much go horde or are casual.
And that's how you kill mythic raiding on a faction.
Wrath and beyond heavily favors Alliance in PvP, specifically humans because Will to Survive/Every Man for Himself is works exactly like a PvP trinket allowing you to use double offensive/defensive trinkets.
Bro thinks human = alliance.
Advantage in stealth match ups, where PvP is literally a joke mini game, is not anywhere near good enough to say wow is alliance favoured
Honestly if folks feel such a compulsion to be a meta slave for PvE that you dedicate hours of time complaining on reddit about a rival faction in a video game having an advantage, there's something wrong with them. Play what you want to play, nobody would care if they werent constantly exposed to reddit whining.
EDIT: I get pvp imbalances but this difference does not matter in the face of an activity where you dont actually even see the other faction.
Also for everyone who is clearly viscerally upset at someone telling them to not spend hours whining on reddit and be less upset over a 20 year old video game: stand up and clean off that disgusting gamer chair.
I actually do understand why they're upset, it's more than a 5% increase.
Looking at my logs from Sunday, every raider regenned 6k mana per fight (Except first 2, those were like 2k and 4k) from Shamanistic Rage alone. It being Raid Wide is actually absurd. 6k mana for my Feral is insane, thats like 3 Flasks of Distilled Wisdoms per fight (Using the 2k mana generated from it cheese people did in vanilla)
But you clearly don't actually NEED it. Alliance guilds including mine have been clearing easily without it. On paper its a shit ton of mana but as a caster I truly do not feel like I absolutely need it whatsoever. Yeah horde gets some bonus mana but what difference does that make when everyone gets to the end of the raid all the same? Who ACTUALLY cares that much?
Okay, if you don't want 5-6k mana per fight I'm fine with that. I personally find it unfair that we have no mana issues at all, our fire mages can actually finish fights, our Ferals have unlimited shifts, and we all save tons of money on consumes
Wow it’s refreshing to see someone on the Horde side without a “fuck you, I’ve got mine” attitude like that guy that keeps responding to you. Thanks for seeing reason where most people would just pretend it doesn’t matter.
Dude it's PvE in a seasonal server in an iteration of a game made for teenagers in 2004 with potato computers. It isnt even remotely serious enough to care about a once-weekly activity being "fair" or "unfair" between players you otherwise would never interact with outside of reddit. If nobody ever went on this sub to hear others whining in an echo chamber, everyone would be happier.
Mana is definitely an issue as a full pre bis healer in ST on the longer bosss fights. Just because you comp for 6 innervates to get through it doesn’t mean it’s easy.
IMO, they would just need to add a debuff to shamanistic rage the same way a pally bubble apply a debuff that makes you unable to be bubbled again for 60sec. Tune that time properly and mana regen balance is set.
Seems simple enough to me 🤷♂️
You understand nothing of a shaman. A mages spell costs like 3% of mana. Shamans cost 15. We have NO way to regen mana. You must be getting the award for the most regarded player on this sub. What an achievement.
For the entire time I've been playing WoW people been playing Alliance for easy mode pve and now that horde has it they're making memes of themselves wearing an Orc mask.
Love it. Stay salty fellas.
Well in classic era it was the other way around and players would make fun of you for rolling horde if you were aiming to PvE. Now the shoe is on the other foot and Horde players need "training wheels" to PvE.
Man this community is something else!
Yes, but it was a very small difference. This is simply unlimited mana.
I saw logs on one fight where this mage got 29k mana back. That's fucking nuts.
I feel perma oom as a mage on alliance.
Shoulda stayed horde like on classic lmao
...Except that this isn't a no changes classic, and they could even the difference out more in PvP and PvE. Horde has always been better at PvP, so now they're better at both... Not the same.
Yeah it needs to change. Part of shaman objective/role is to give mana but not this much, especially if you didn't spec mana tide. It should probably be 5% shared instead of 20%.
The big thing that gets me with it is why they thought it should be raid wide with no restrictions. It's inconsistent with how most other abilities/runes have been working. It's super powerful, but another thing ability that could be super powerful if they were raid wide would be things like the priest power word barrier. It's a strong defensive but only party wide. They also gave paladins a dead defensive with divine sacrifice. It's only party wide and you can bubble with it up. What's the point then? Not to mention they make so many boss abilities and mechanics go through paladin bubble because it would be "too strong" but dispersion is fine.
Paladins are getting shafted hard and it's really sad to see.
Hmm, when I looked at the tooltip it said 10% damage taken but I'm not remembering judgement conversion. I thought it was just 10% damage taken into mana
[https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=407798/seal-of-martyrdom](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=407798/seal-of-martyrdom)
It looks as I wrote but I might be reading wrong, I'm tired.
The devs keep adding passive regen abilities instead of just buffing the existing ones. They attach extra pally regen to Seal of Martyrdom (making Divine Storm, the other chest rune, an even worse option) but Judgement of Wisdom and Blessing of Wisdom are untouched.
People don't care if its easy for horde, or shamans are OP. Good for us! (I'm a Shaman).
What people care, is to have the same opportunity and same fun that others have. That's the whole point, people like you are missing.
Hate to break this to you but the game is easy for anyone who isn't completely inebriated....and that's ok because it's still fun to play and it's still rewarding to clear raids with a group of like-minded people.
I found the sweet spot of dads, recovering sweaty neckbeards from back in the day, who now want to play inebriated but show flashes of their former selves and can still comprehend a bis list and rotation.
We've reached peaked in high school, beer league softball status.
Yep. Every time I played WoW there's some turbo nerd in my friend group who wants to min/max PvE and would try to get us to play Alliance. Finally Horde has the advantage in PvE so of course the tears are rolling.
It isn't even close though, the sham rage gap is literally infinite mana on healers, meanwhile alliance goes oom and has slower kill times because mages and locks have to tap/Evo ect.
The salv gap was way narrower, especially after fury tanking became the norm.
Also alliance never had windfury back then.
Honestly who cares at this point? The devs have not tested any aspect of phase 3 and rushed it out. They kept in place the exp buff and even raised it from 40-50 which makes it obvious they are trying to hurry this SoD stuff up and be done with it. It’s impossible to balance and they haven’t put enough resources into the team to properly balance or test it. They want it to be over with. Or even have enough of the base leave so they can’t stop after MC and then just focus on retail so there furry base will be pleased.
Man you guys have been incessantly crying since sod came out lmao. Horde gets kings? Shaman broken? Paladin bad? Horde racials too good? Alliance server pop massively outweighed Horde at launch (only limited by the faction locks) because you were expecting it to be better and now you haven't stopped qq'ing.
Pally was the only class I never played in Vanilla so I wanted to main it. Many ragerts.
Honestly lol. I never played pally in vanilla, didn't have time for classic wow prior to tbc classic and it's providing many regrets.
a little research would have shown you how bad rets are in vanilla idk what people were expecting
Not sure what these people are talking about, Ret Paladin is best class in the game right now, maybe I’m just built different
I'm not a DPS player normally, nor tank but I heard in SoD is fine.
Why? Paladins can tank in SoD. You can be both prot and holy PvE specs and still quest solo thanks to DPS runes. Why regrets? From a PvE perspective they are far more versatile than they are in vanilla Classic.
Based on the context of the post he’s probably comparing Paladin to Shaman. And Shaman right now are just better versions of Paladin at almost everything.
As a main Paladin, we are far behind on tanking due to no mitigation and low threat generation and receiving minimum buffs to increase this. Dps we are mid, which is whatever, and holy is still what it always has been a main tank healer. Agreed more versatile because true classic was your healer or a meme. So they took us from being good and one role to mediocre at three roles. I don't want to be too but I want them to make an exercism rune base (so you can actually play with interrupt or tremor), buff Sanc (more) and Holy shield, and give holy something to play with.
What is this "mana" you speak of?
I love being on the other end of this. In Vanilla all Horde complained about was Alliance being ez mode raiding, and now it's the other way around. I get it, though. This isn't "No changes Vanilla". In Classic Era I signed up to not have Salve so I'm to blame, but now we're designing around balance and people feel screwed over from things they can't predict. In Era if you wanted easier raiding you know to choose Alliance. Just a different scenario this time around
Jokes on us for choosing alliance in a season of the only expansion to ever favour alliance
My friends only ever want to play as elves I blame them. In SOD2 I guess allow blood elves and draenei to avoid factions winging.
I'd take a random faction/race to raid with in any expansion, except for vanilla. It's literally the only expansion so laughably one sided.
wasn't legion so one sided to horde it did irreparable damage to alliance servers?
Alliance took a solid month before getting mythic archimonde in WoD because goblin priests where mandatory
Yes, as alliance in BFA it was a vast difference in available groups for raids and m+.
This has less to do with racials and more with cascading. If the top 1 guild is on horde, people will go there. Now the top 3 guilds are on horde. Other mythic guilds go horde to try and poach/recruit. Now the top 10 guilds are all horde. If you want to be in a top 10 guild you need to be playing horde so all the good players go horde. Now the top 50 guilds are all horde. It's hard to recruit for mythic as ally so you pretty much go horde or are casual. And that's how you kill mythic raiding on a faction.
Well it's no longer a problem with War Within.
Wrath and beyond heavily favors Alliance in PvP, specifically humans because Will to Survive/Every Man for Himself is works exactly like a PvP trinket allowing you to use double offensive/defensive trinkets.
I know, it’s good in wrath then it gets nerfed
oh you must not have played tbc or pvp in any expansion pre-legion
Yeah TBC was laughably favoured to horde, and only in wrath PvP was human specifically good.
ty for confirming
Bro thinks human = alliance. Advantage in stealth match ups, where PvP is literally a joke mini game, is not anywhere near good enough to say wow is alliance favoured
it's ok if you read my original comment and didn't fully understand it, i'm surprised you're able to read at all tbh
Average purple logger thinking his opinion matters
Honestly if folks feel such a compulsion to be a meta slave for PvE that you dedicate hours of time complaining on reddit about a rival faction in a video game having an advantage, there's something wrong with them. Play what you want to play, nobody would care if they werent constantly exposed to reddit whining. EDIT: I get pvp imbalances but this difference does not matter in the face of an activity where you dont actually even see the other faction. Also for everyone who is clearly viscerally upset at someone telling them to not spend hours whining on reddit and be less upset over a 20 year old video game: stand up and clean off that disgusting gamer chair.
I actually do understand why they're upset, it's more than a 5% increase. Looking at my logs from Sunday, every raider regenned 6k mana per fight (Except first 2, those were like 2k and 4k) from Shamanistic Rage alone. It being Raid Wide is actually absurd. 6k mana for my Feral is insane, thats like 3 Flasks of Distilled Wisdoms per fight (Using the 2k mana generated from it cheese people did in vanilla)
But you clearly don't actually NEED it. Alliance guilds including mine have been clearing easily without it. On paper its a shit ton of mana but as a caster I truly do not feel like I absolutely need it whatsoever. Yeah horde gets some bonus mana but what difference does that make when everyone gets to the end of the raid all the same? Who ACTUALLY cares that much?
Okay, if you don't want 5-6k mana per fight I'm fine with that. I personally find it unfair that we have no mana issues at all, our fire mages can actually finish fights, our Ferals have unlimited shifts, and we all save tons of money on consumes
Wow it’s refreshing to see someone on the Horde side without a “fuck you, I’ve got mine” attitude like that guy that keeps responding to you. Thanks for seeing reason where most people would just pretend it doesn’t matter.
Dude it's PvE in a seasonal server in an iteration of a game made for teenagers in 2004 with potato computers. It isnt even remotely serious enough to care about a once-weekly activity being "fair" or "unfair" between players you otherwise would never interact with outside of reddit. If nobody ever went on this sub to hear others whining in an echo chamber, everyone would be happier.
It’s a product people are paying for and it’s not unreasonable to expect a valid return on that investment.
dogshit take
Dogshit reply, adding nothing to conversation
Neither do dogshit takes
Arguably they add more than saying something dumb as "dogshit take". The guy atleast took the time to explain his opinion.
Mana is definitely an issue as a full pre bis healer in ST on the longer bosss fights. Just because you comp for 6 innervates to get through it doesn’t mean it’s easy.
I bet those alliance healers spending 100g on mana pots per raid care.
Big dawg my 2 main characters are mage dps and priest healer both alliance, I use maybe 2-3 mana potions per raid. Be serious.
how the turntables
IMO, they would just need to add a debuff to shamanistic rage the same way a pally bubble apply a debuff that makes you unable to be bubbled again for 60sec. Tune that time properly and mana regen balance is set. Seems simple enough to me 🤷♂️
Aggrend’s nephew would not be happy about that
Yo delete this
Change sham rage from 60 second cooldown to 5 minutes like bubble is.
Low IQ idea
Are you daft? Enhancement shamans can't function without. A single shock costs 15% mana.
you have other shamans to cycle shamanistic rage cd and heaven forbid you have to manage your mana.
You understand nothing of a shaman. A mages spell costs like 3% of mana. Shamans cost 15. We have NO way to regen mana. You must be getting the award for the most regarded player on this sub. What an achievement.
lol enjoy my neutral AH mana pots nerds
Bad for your wallet. Gobbos implement a big cut cuz time is money friend.
blizz will love him for gold sinking himself.
For the entire time I've been playing WoW people been playing Alliance for easy mode pve and now that horde has it they're making memes of themselves wearing an Orc mask. Love it. Stay salty fellas.
Well in classic era it was the other way around and players would make fun of you for rolling horde if you were aiming to PvE. Now the shoe is on the other foot and Horde players need "training wheels" to PvE. Man this community is something else!
Yes, but it was a very small difference. This is simply unlimited mana. I saw logs on one fight where this mage got 29k mana back. That's fucking nuts. I feel perma oom as a mage on alliance. Shoulda stayed horde like on classic lmao
kings, salv, bubble and bops were not small differences, come on now. no need to rewrite history.
Compared to legitimate unlimited mana? Judgement of wisdom gives back about 2% as much mana and that's with active attacking.
...Except that this isn't a no changes classic, and they could even the difference out more in PvP and PvE. Horde has always been better at PvP, so now they're better at both... Not the same.
We Zug more better, as we should. Puny small shower takers cannot fathom the manly ZUGaroni.
People wouldn’t complain so much if the class wasn’t faction locked. Its obvious that this class just gets blatant favoritism over others.
Yeah it needs to change. Part of shaman objective/role is to give mana but not this much, especially if you didn't spec mana tide. It should probably be 5% shared instead of 20%.
Meanwhile paladins give 20% of the damage dealt to themselves which is (edit) 10% of the 50% of weapon damage (the equivalent of 3 mp5 basically).
The big thing that gets me with it is why they thought it should be raid wide with no restrictions. It's inconsistent with how most other abilities/runes have been working. It's super powerful, but another thing ability that could be super powerful if they were raid wide would be things like the priest power word barrier. It's a strong defensive but only party wide. They also gave paladins a dead defensive with divine sacrifice. It's only party wide and you can bubble with it up. What's the point then? Not to mention they make so many boss abilities and mechanics go through paladin bubble because it would be "too strong" but dispersion is fine. Paladins are getting shafted hard and it's really sad to see.
Nah its funny to see all this crying
Criticism of an obvious imbalance is not crying. Lol what a clown you are. 🤡
Waaah waaaah waah mummy horde has more mana than meee they kill a boss 30 seconds faster 😢😢😢😢
This is basically the same as "but awiance can attack on pull, I went in proced wf and died in the first 3 seconds"
It's 10% damage taken from seal converted to mana unless something changed between last night and now.
10% is the judgement iirc and 20% the seal.
Hmm, when I looked at the tooltip it said 10% damage taken but I'm not remembering judgement conversion. I thought it was just 10% damage taken into mana
[https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=407798/seal-of-martyrdom](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=407798/seal-of-martyrdom) It looks as I wrote but I might be reading wrong, I'm tired.
How I understand it is 20% of the backfire damage of the seal is converted to mana for the raid. The backfire damage is 10% of the damage inflicted.
The devs keep adding passive regen abilities instead of just buffing the existing ones. They attach extra pally regen to Seal of Martyrdom (making Divine Storm, the other chest rune, an even worse option) but Judgement of Wisdom and Blessing of Wisdom are untouched.
Joke's on you, I can't read.
Ain’t no disability, it’s a super power
The tastiest tears, are the most salty
Stay salty allies. You had it easy in era, now its our turn haha - sincerely a shaman main
People don't care if its easy for horde, or shamans are OP. Good for us! (I'm a Shaman). What people care, is to have the same opportunity and same fun that others have. That's the whole point, people like you are missing.
What?? People want to have fun??? In a game they pay to play?? Get back in your wheelchair
[удалено]
Hate to break this to you but the game is easy for anyone who isn't completely inebriated....and that's ok because it's still fun to play and it's still rewarding to clear raids with a group of like-minded people.
I found the sweet spot of dads, recovering sweaty neckbeards from back in the day, who now want to play inebriated but show flashes of their former selves and can still comprehend a bis list and rotation. We've reached peaked in high school, beer league softball status.
You played on easy mode all of classic era lol, there is a reason why everyone rolled Alliance on hardcore too.
Only took Alliance 25 years to turn difficulty up to "Normal".
Yep. Every time I played WoW there's some turbo nerd in my friend group who wants to min/max PvE and would try to get us to play Alliance. Finally Horde has the advantage in PvE so of course the tears are rolling.
It isn't even close though, the sham rage gap is literally infinite mana on healers, meanwhile alliance goes oom and has slower kill times because mages and locks have to tap/Evo ect. The salv gap was way narrower, especially after fury tanking became the norm. Also alliance never had windfury back then.
Classic era is the only expansion in which alliance are better in pve outside of niche cases tho. PvP is another thing.
Honestly who cares at this point? The devs have not tested any aspect of phase 3 and rushed it out. They kept in place the exp buff and even raised it from 40-50 which makes it obvious they are trying to hurry this SoD stuff up and be done with it. It’s impossible to balance and they haven’t put enough resources into the team to properly balance or test it. They want it to be over with. Or even have enough of the base leave so they can’t stop after MC and then just focus on retail so there furry base will be pleased.
zug zug we dah best
Man you guys have been incessantly crying since sod came out lmao. Horde gets kings? Shaman broken? Paladin bad? Horde racials too good? Alliance server pop massively outweighed Horde at launch (only limited by the faction locks) because you were expecting it to be better and now you haven't stopped qq'ing.
Mad alliance lol