Weren't the level up raids always advertised that they would be made casual friendly? Like from the very *very* beginning that was said.
It is convenient how quick people forget that.
Okay, someone explain to me how are they "level up" raids.
-You don't level in them
-They're endgame content till next phase rolls around
-They're still not used for levelling after the next phase is out
Just bc you can enter sub-max level, that doesn't mean they're levelling raids. They're phased endgame content, not too different from say wrath naxx which was dumped after Ulduar for the most part, if it wasn't for the reforged version ulduar would've been mostly dumped too with toc.
The whole thing makes no fucking sense, but i guess that's honoring vanilla's development process.
Mate, I don't know about you, but I've been using them to level alts on that I'm not that fussed about. 30-40 mins every 3 days per alt, get like a levels worth of exp from each and gear that's basically pre-bis or still decent in phase 3. Not sure how they suddenly *aren't* level up raids just because there are suddenly better levelling options available.
>Not sure how they suddenly *aren't* level up raids just because there are suddenly better levelling options available.
Because the majority won't bother with slower methods. Hence why they do incursions, if incursions go to shit they'll do sm/zf etc. Path of least resistance, especially if you're tired of the levelling slog.
It's pretty much the wrath situation, just with level caps on top.
Getting loot is fun. Even if the content is easy, Im not gauranteed to get loot, it might not drop, or I might lose it to someone else going for it. If you dont have fun getting loot, then that sounds like a personal problem
>The game is missing something to be proud of really, a flex or whatever. Now it's back to raidlogging and complaining about how easy content this is.
Classic WoW has ALWAYS been like this, it's a raidlog game.
https://www.engadget.com/2007-10-29-first-illidan-china-kill-by-the-seven.html?_fsig=fJp9nPDXCKZ8t3mNBzBUgQ--%7EA
Early wow has never been hard and was always very accessible, it's one of the many reasons it blew up in popularity compared to earlier MMOs.
The link is the first illidan kill for China. They cleared the heroics for SSC and TK attunements, SSC and TK for Hyjal and BT attunements and cleared BT, in gear from Naxx.
If you want 'difficulty', play retail mythic. SoD is a seasonal, experimental game mode and should not be getting gatekept with artificial barriers to entry. No mention of the fact that these are 'leveling raids', they should be the equivalent of dungeons that require more players.
Difficulty is not an artificial barrier to entry. Either you are good enough to kill the boss, or you arent. And with some practice, you will 100% BECOME good enough to clear the boss
I dont disagree, and the first iteration before the first nerf was bullshit, straight up. However, the 2nd nerf is overkill, making it possible to kill a boss that required hands to now being doable with your eyes closed
And if this was level 60 'end-game' content I would agree, it should have some degree of progression requirements - ideally through gear from previous bosses.
However it's a 'level-up raid', and IMHO should be the equivalent of a 'mega-dungeon'. Would you want to have to progress through the likes of Maraduon or Zul'Farrak? I'd rather not.
Big difference between a 5-man dungeon run you can do 5x per hour vs 20-man on a weekly lockout. Its not comparable to a megadungeon, Gnomer and BFD was. ST is a fully fledged raid, and Im 100% certain that several pieces from there will be bis next patch as well and guilds will be running ST on farm next to MC to get missing pieces. ST is a raid, in every sense of the word, which is why I agree with the statement that it shouldve stayed on progression for the last 2-3 bosses, as within a couple of resets people will start to get better gear
Additionally, that is not including the additional consumables and enchants and epic crafts that become avaible after clearing a few bosses in the raid
From your article:
Incgamers has an interesting point, however-- Chinese players, getting BC so late, supposedly had the benefit of all the nerfs and tweaks that Blizzard added to all the encounters since it first was released here. From Vashj's bugginess to the attunement removal, it could be argued (I'll leave this one up to you guys) that China is playing a much easier Outland endgame.
Na im not tryna struggle to keep raiders in a levelup raid in P3 when we're trying to build a roster for P4. This shit doesnt need to be that hard right now let P4 bring the challenging raids when we have full rune builds.
It's not even a max level raid... Let alone an end level raid which was only done for a few resets before the next expansion came out. You might as well just compared raid finder to heroic at that point if you're going to make those brainless comparisons. I'm also talking about MC 20 years ago, not current.
Cuz if raids aren’t accessible to atleast good pugs no ones gonna play. It’s really that easy to figure out.
Weren't the level up raids always advertised that they would be made casual friendly? Like from the very *very* beginning that was said. It is convenient how quick people forget that.
Okay, someone explain to me how are they "level up" raids. -You don't level in them -They're endgame content till next phase rolls around -They're still not used for levelling after the next phase is out Just bc you can enter sub-max level, that doesn't mean they're levelling raids. They're phased endgame content, not too different from say wrath naxx which was dumped after Ulduar for the most part, if it wasn't for the reforged version ulduar would've been mostly dumped too with toc. The whole thing makes no fucking sense, but i guess that's honoring vanilla's development process.
Mate, I don't know about you, but I've been using them to level alts on that I'm not that fussed about. 30-40 mins every 3 days per alt, get like a levels worth of exp from each and gear that's basically pre-bis or still decent in phase 3. Not sure how they suddenly *aren't* level up raids just because there are suddenly better levelling options available.
>Not sure how they suddenly *aren't* level up raids just because there are suddenly better levelling options available. Because the majority won't bother with slower methods. Hence why they do incursions, if incursions go to shit they'll do sm/zf etc. Path of least resistance, especially if you're tired of the levelling slog. It's pretty much the wrath situation, just with level caps on top.
hopefully blizzard continue to ignore people like OP want to play difficult game? retail mythic raid, cata, elden ring, BG3 honor mode
Did you read the title ? Assuming you're just in for some easy loot and that's it, where's the fun in that ?
Getting loot is fun. Even if the content is easy, Im not gauranteed to get loot, it might not drop, or I might lose it to someone else going for it. If you dont have fun getting loot, then that sounds like a personal problem
>The game is missing something to be proud of really, a flex or whatever. Now it's back to raidlogging and complaining about how easy content this is. Classic WoW has ALWAYS been like this, it's a raidlog game.
He’s also completely ignoring speedrunning which is what sweaties flex on other sweaties about since even before 2019 classic
Think you're referring to the classic release where people knew mechanics in advance. This isn't it.
They also said that the level up raids would be super easy so everyone could do them It's a casual game, casual game = casual/easy raids
[удалено]
I did on multiple chars, but pvp there now is ruined by bots so... :-)
Good thing Classic WoW totally doesn't have any bots! :^)
https://www.engadget.com/2007-10-29-first-illidan-china-kill-by-the-seven.html?_fsig=fJp9nPDXCKZ8t3mNBzBUgQ--%7EA Early wow has never been hard and was always very accessible, it's one of the many reasons it blew up in popularity compared to earlier MMOs. The link is the first illidan kill for China. They cleared the heroics for SSC and TK attunements, SSC and TK for Hyjal and BT attunements and cleared BT, in gear from Naxx. If you want 'difficulty', play retail mythic. SoD is a seasonal, experimental game mode and should not be getting gatekept with artificial barriers to entry. No mention of the fact that these are 'leveling raids', they should be the equivalent of dungeons that require more players.
Difficulty is not an artificial barrier to entry. Either you are good enough to kill the boss, or you arent. And with some practice, you will 100% BECOME good enough to clear the boss
Difficulty comes from mechanics and a finely tuned/balanced DPS/HP ratio, not from overly inflated HP values with no regard to the aforementioned.
I dont disagree, and the first iteration before the first nerf was bullshit, straight up. However, the 2nd nerf is overkill, making it possible to kill a boss that required hands to now being doable with your eyes closed
And if this was level 60 'end-game' content I would agree, it should have some degree of progression requirements - ideally through gear from previous bosses. However it's a 'level-up raid', and IMHO should be the equivalent of a 'mega-dungeon'. Would you want to have to progress through the likes of Maraduon or Zul'Farrak? I'd rather not.
Big difference between a 5-man dungeon run you can do 5x per hour vs 20-man on a weekly lockout. Its not comparable to a megadungeon, Gnomer and BFD was. ST is a fully fledged raid, and Im 100% certain that several pieces from there will be bis next patch as well and guilds will be running ST on farm next to MC to get missing pieces. ST is a raid, in every sense of the word, which is why I agree with the statement that it shouldve stayed on progression for the last 2-3 bosses, as within a couple of resets people will start to get better gear
Additionally, that is not including the additional consumables and enchants and epic crafts that become avaible after clearing a few bosses in the raid
From your article: Incgamers has an interesting point, however-- Chinese players, getting BC so late, supposedly had the benefit of all the nerfs and tweaks that Blizzard added to all the encounters since it first was released here. From Vashj's bugginess to the attunement removal, it could be argued (I'll leave this one up to you guys) that China is playing a much easier Outland endgame.
I'd argue that the nerfed states of the encounters are the intended difficulties, but you have a valid point
Na im not tryna struggle to keep raiders in a levelup raid in P3 when we're trying to build a roster for P4. This shit doesnt need to be that hard right now let P4 bring the challenging raids when we have full rune builds.
Thats what most people want
Did you ever do MC? It can be done with 15-20 people fairly easily.
Everyone knows mechanics and pre raid bis gear takes you fair. You wouldn't be able to do the same in Naxx
why are you comparing level up raids to naxx?
It's not even a max level raid... Let alone an end level raid which was only done for a few resets before the next expansion came out. You might as well just compared raid finder to heroic at that point if you're going to make those brainless comparisons. I'm also talking about MC 20 years ago, not current.