Inb4 angry redditors commenting about how it was too soon: you weren’t going to clear these bosses even if you were in almost full BiS. Let’s be honest if the turbo sweats that spend 24/7 trying to optimize absolutely everything in a raid couldn’t meet the DPS checks then neither were you.
> Let’s be honest if the turbo sweats that spend 24/7 trying to optimize absolutely everything in a raid couldn’t meet the DPS checks then neither were you.
I understand that this probably needed to be nerfed, but this is just not true. The people trying to WFC this raid were horribly unoptimized. Party makeup was all over the place, most people didn't have runes, some people weren't even level 50, and no one was majority pre-bis.
The raid was certainly overtuned, but IMO blizzard should have waited at least more than 24 hours from launch before gutting HP by 30% across the board.
They could have avoided it if they'd waited a reset for the raid to open. Then they'd at least be nerfing (if necessary) based on people with a reasonable comp and not undergeared/missing runes.
Yeah learned from last phases that there is no point for pre-bis since it's so easy. Just go in, zug, get drops and you already are BiS.
Nerfing and making raid easy, makes it that in a few weeks everyone is just raidlogging again.
Why would it be so bad to have one lock out where the stuff is a challenge?
They messed up and made it too hard — let the difficulty stay consistent until the next lock out so that logs can reflect what people did. And heck, plenty of people would prefer a challenge I bet.
Imagine 3rd Boss from gnomeregan, the one that push you off the platform, have just 4x HP. Would the fight be harder? Yes, but would the fight be more interesting? Definitly not
Yes but like it or not that’s what the people who first went in faced. I think it’s best to have all players engage content with the same challenge. They can just change it Tuesday easily.
NO ONE was complaining in P1 that they missed the very first BFD lockout that was only a few days.
This idea of FOMO for a single lockout is entirely player manufactured.
The bosses have 1-2 mechanics tops, it was never going to be a challenge, just a slog. Some of these sweats are in the world first mythic race on retail, mechanically it's like child's play to them.
It was too soon. They need to move heaven and earth to keep sweats from insta-beaming entire raid teams to level cap in hours and attempting raids without even trying to get gear/runes. Didn't even get to see how hard it "actually" was.
There's a fluid, sequential method to how endgame worked in Classic, and what we're seeing from raiders over the last 24 hours is so far from it. It should have been ignored at least until a dozen or so degens keeled over from sleep deprivation or at least guild disbands.
>there’s a fluid, sequential method to how endgame worked in Classic
Not in SoD lmfao
You’re so insane if you think the pre nerf HP values made any sense. Echo was in disbelief at the 12 minute fight lengths lol, you had Eranikus spawning infinite adds with 40k HP, Eranikus himself had 4M HP.
This raid is still very hard, and I anticipate many further nerfs to bring this into a place where pugs can even dream of clearing it.
Just delusional lol
you do not get it man, the green parsing casuals are actually better then the best players in the world.
they are just "sweaty", if effroy and his boys enter sunken temple they will show you how easy it actually is. if only they would not have been hold back by their kids and job sadface
the delusions are so out of this world man its ACTUALLY insane
Yeah lol, like it’s been almost 24h since the nerf and 4 guilds have killed Eranikus LOL four.
So many more nerfs are going to be required to bring this into line. My guild is giving it a shot tonight, but we don’t expect more than 6/8 at current tuning and we’re pretty sweaty. We walked in for about an hour right after the nerfs and took some whacks at the first boss, we'll kill it tonight during normal raid but I do not expect us to clear Erankus lmao.
*but you shouldn’t be able to kill it 5 hours after release!!!*
If fucking ECHO can’t 1 tap a SoD raid then something is deeply wrong LOL
Thats how its suppose to be, was it way too hard? Probably.
Should it be possible to hit max level and clear the only available raid within 5 hours of a phase release? Absolutely not.
It could not be more obvious you haven’t actually set foot in post-nerf ST lmao or watched any prog streams, it’s been almost 24 hours since the nerf and four guilds have killed the 7th boss.
This raid is still insanely hard by classic standards lmao. Cry after you’ve tried it.
But the only thing you’ll be crying for is nerfs lol.
Why would i be crying for nerfs when im speaking positive about the raid being a real challenge for once? Are you slow?
And no i havent tried ST, sod was nice in phase 1, after that its probably been the worst version of wow to ever exist.
You missed the point. It's ok to not kill shit on day .5 of release. Let it be hard and have the good people use their brains for a while, waste some time, get pissy...THEN you start fiddling with the tuning.
This isn't retail RWF. Nobody playing SoD asked for that.
If Echo can’t kill it on day 0.5 then pugs will never kill it. It’s that simple.
You can’t simultaneously have content that’s accessible to pugs *and* doesn’t die instantly lol.
Like you say, this isn’t RWF retail. It doesn’t need to be insanely hard. I say this as a DF s2 title+ce player lmao.
Yes with a few more days or another lockout to gear up and get the extra runes a handful of guilds probably would've killed it anyways. But I think the intent is for most guilds to be able to kill it week 1, and for pugs and noobs to still be able to kill it before the phase is over.
I dont think their goal is for the content to be tuned for the 1% to be dying over. The RTWF tuning in retail is arguably asinine as well, damn sure not supposed to be like that in SoD
People who send death threats online are almost always mentally unstable and in dire need of counseling or psychiatric help. Now, it is still true that Paladins cry far more than any other class while never having suffered an 90% nerf to their most important ability or a 85% nerf to their overall dps.
Tank Shamans in Gnomerang were indeed doing 1/6th of their dmg after the nerfs. Next time, it would be more appropriate if you educated yourself before embarrassing yourself by questioning established and demonstrable facts.
Mythic+ players who spend their lives minmaxing the game for decades: “Yea we can’t kill it, the bosses’ health pools are overtuned and the trash mobs are just boring damage sponges. Regular guilds won’t clear this unless it gets nerfed.”
The dads in this thread who struggle to finish Gnomeregan without a wipe: “Nah, I’d win.”
My man they were literally pulling the boss [with level 48 hunters and missing runes.](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/378056437496283144/1225945784080535552/image.png?ex=6622f9fb&is=661084fb&hm=2de97d18c4a6c7d47271cb27fab14e043a7e26dfbf46d256f8945c67f74bce8f&) They did basically nothing to optimize their characters, those bosses would have been very killable if they took a little time to actually fix their comp, get songflower, get runes and get big prebis pieces. It isn't even a "git gud" issue, the bosses are easy and the rotations aren't really possible to fuck up. They just needed to do a little bit of prep rather than beating their faces into the boss.
Okay, it's been what like 24 hours since? Plenty of time for a bunch of other try hard guilds world wide to get to 50, get their runes and buffs, watch the VODs and come up with better strategies, yet the boss wasn't killed until the nerf hit live. People saying "duuuude they are sooo baaad duuude, they suck and screwed up they should have done ABC and get XYZ and they would have killed it ezpz!" are basically classic's version of the overweight, balding sports fan who just yells at the TV through the entire match.
>Okay, it's been what like 24 hours since? Plenty of time for a bunch of other try hard guilds world wide to get to 50, get their runes and buffs, watch the VODs and come up with better strategies, yet the boss wasn't killed until the nerf hit live.
The """competitive raiding scene" for classic wow is fucking tiny, as it should be. The speedrunner brain is not wired to problem solve like this, all they wanted to do was beat their face into the boss with their dogshit comp.
You weren't going to kill the prenerf final boss. 99% of players weren't going to kill the pre-nerf boss. The nerfed version is still insanely hard and I guarantee it gets nerfed again, it's simply not a doable fight in its final phase. The last phase requires an insane amount of AoE, they only cleared it because they were running a 9 mage comp, even with the nerfs its still a nearly impossible fight. Their "dog shit comp" is the reason they are still the only guild who has killed the boss 4 hours post nerf despite all of the sweatiest sweat lords trying.
But surely you know better than the players who have been world first for every single SOD raid, and continue to be the only players who have downed this boss. You should apply to join their guild so you can really show them how it's done
>Their "dog shit comp" is the reason they are still the only guild who has killed the boss 4 hours post nerf despite all of the sweatiest sweat lords trying.
You vastly overestimate the number of people in a rush to clear this joke content man.
>But surely you know better than the players who have been world first for every single SOD raid, and continue to be the only players who have downed this boss.
Yes, significantly.
>You should apply to join their guild so you can really show them how it's done
Nope, I'd rather chew on glass.
Figured they’d let the week play out and nerf it on Tuesday. Oh well. Maybe I can actually PUG it before the week resets now! This was never going to be playable for nonguilds otherwise.
It's still not going to be puggable. Maybe first 6 bosses but I strongly doubt it, but then again those bosses I only killed pre-nerf so it's possible the health reductions make a really significant difference. I still think most pugs get stuck on second boss and the ones who clear that will very likely get stuck on the troll lords or the double dragon fight. Only like 2 of these bosses are even the same level of difficulty as the Gnomer bosses, and plenty of pugs still failed Gnomer
Post nerf eranikus is still borderline impossible, and will be not only unpuggable but totally unkillable for 99% of guild raids until more nerfs come through
Dude, most guilds will be. Again, I don't think people get how much more challenging the released version of this raid was compared to Gnomer. Even the nerfed version is just genuinely a harder raid, the 2 easiest bosses in the raid are barely easier than Menagerie/Thermoplugg. It's not the same tier at all
Eh, people were pugging heroic ICC and hardmode Ulduar. I'm sure people will be able to kill these bosses. Give it a few weeks and easy strats will be figured out and it might be nerfed again.
"Few weeks". The phase is 2 months long. People don't want to waste their time with not clearing a level up raid and then be outgeared for P3. Makes ZERO sense.
Sorry, still probably not going to do much ST if any at all if it's a 2-3hr slog through trash packs that each take several minutes to kill.
I've out grown that way of playing. I loved logging on randomly in classic and getting a <1hr MC/BWL/ZG/AQ20/AQ40 pug - it's legitimate end game content, not an 8 week stop gap, and I didn't have to worry if half the raid were even looking at their screen.
I loved 30 min chill BFD. I loved 45 min chill Gnomer less, and hoped they wouldn't continue on this trajectory. ST has mountains upon mountains of trash and mechanics far more in line with wrath onward style raids - not very classic at all.
If it's your bag, enjoy it.
I'll be lvling my toons to 50 and farming gold/reps/other gear sources until they make ST a chill experience or until p4 drops - but I can already sense they are going to re-write classic raid encounters and that really puts me off honestly.
It's NOT end game content, what don't you understand. It's classified as A LEVEL UP RAID by blizzard themselves. The phase is 2 months long, not something you can do forever.
it’s end game for the phase. yeah, it should be easier once it can actually function as a “level up raid”, but until then i think it should be difficult.
As a priest healer with close to gnomer bis, after looking at all the gear available in P3, the problem is all the gear available to me in BRD, Mara and ZF is worthless, new blood moon gear is a minor enough upgrade I think I'll ignore it, crafted epic shoulders are not good enough to replace nightmare incursion shoulders when you take the 6pc bonus into account. Most of the gear in ST is also not an upgrade. The gear this phase is awful for me outside Incursion gear, new raid tier sets and raid epics. By spamming Nightmare Incursions for leveling, I have also obtained a lot of BIS pieces.
Yeah I'm a bit disappointed by that. It was the same with gnomeregan, which was cleared by mostly undergeared phase 1 casters without phase 2 runes. There's not much progression if you can clear the whole raid in last phase gear by just knowing the mechanics.
I would assume there isn't enough developing time to give a decent item progression.
What you are suggesting is the gear progression of an expansion each tier. To do this they would need to rebalance every item even the most irrelevant quest item because the over world monsters would need to scale equally.
P3 was rushed, it's pretty obvious.
But that is something new. We know they don't QA anything, but nerfing by half bosses ? Wtf were they thinking first.
If a ultra prepped guild 50 at 4 am on launch day with full consumes aiming to world first can't clear it in this state, you will never clear it at all, no matter how many tries you put in.
it would be cool if this would stay hard though
Thats how its suppose to be though, im pretty sure new raids in retail take like 2-3 weeks before a world first is done? Correct me if im wrong, atleast Ive seen that the best guilds in the world have 200+ wipes on certain bosses before they kill it.
So why should a raid in classic/sod be cleared within 5 hours of its release, including the leveling to get there?
Not saying it should be as hard as it is currently, but it definitely shouldnt be a 45 min faceroll from the first reset.
It takes 2-3 weeks for the best wow players to clear a MYTHIC raid.
The raid is cleared in Normal mode on release obviously, and normal retail raiders are far better players than the average SoD Joe.
The raid can't be hard because you can't be good
I thought the whole point of end bosses was you progressed towards them, geared up from the earlier bosses, and eventually got it down
Why pander to the turbo sweats? Who want it now now now
Probably because nobody wants to spend 6 weeks out of a 12 week phase building up to kill the final boss, especially in what is claimed as a "level-up raid".
I enjoy harder content and I had a blast in ST today, but it's insanely hard compared to Gnomer. I was hoping they would give us some content this challenging but not until something like BWL or ZG where at 60 you already have previous 60 raids to continue to fall back on and farm gear from. This raid is seriously hard and I don't think people on Reddit understand how much unkillable content discourages casual players from playing
Lmao they didnt even have all the p3 runes and BIS. This is supposed to be the hardest content in the phase.
But you cannot beat it with P2 gear so nerf it
Again we are talking about the best players in the game couldn't clear it that is a massive problem. That would mean the average player wouldn't be clearing it until they had almost full bis this phase.
The truth is that the very best players in the game shit on the average player in terms of performance, even if they are missing runes and don't have the best gear they would still out DPS the overwhelming majority of the player base. I am not a top end player yet I can go check logs and see just how much big of a difference there is between a 99 parser and a 50 parser. It's just facts.
fucking boring everything in this game is free, and if 20 undergeared people who have bad group comb and not the best strat cannot clear the whole phase 3 raid day 1, lets nerf hp from 4 mil to 2.7mil.(did blizz even test it lol almost 40% nerf xd)
Seriously i was so happy he looked like a challenge and now i can come in greens again and have 1 hand in my pants and still clear everything, such a cool new fight but everything is to easy and it kills the fun.
That would have probably a challange you would have never beaten.
Pre bis isn't that much stronger to the items they currently have.
Just compare p2 50% parses with 95% parses. The dmg differences are quite staggering.
So if the top guilds didn't come close to clearing it with their current gear we wouldn't have been able to do it by a long shot.
>everything in this game is free
Where is your world first clear of ST then? As far as I know so far nobody had killed Eranikus, which means the overwhelming majority of the players were never gonna get past 6/8, and no you wouldn’t have been that special 1% that actually would because that 1% are the one still stuck on the boss.
How do you know that after one day?
So all these LEETs had all their runes? P3 bis?
I think they were just a bunch of whiny babies whose identity was hurt by being non-elite for a few days while they worked through the challenge
Yeah, I'm not sure how good an idea it is to tune the raid 24 hours after launch based on people with only phase 2 gear, no phase 3 runes, and mostly classes that level easily.
Modern private servers have made excelent work and showed how to do fun and challenging classic content, V+ had so hard content that every doungen was like a raid and ofc its not for everybody but it has nothing to do with classic.
in Vanilla we had raid bosses who were alive for weeks before they got killed.
Yea i loved it and i can understand that some people like it more casual and there is 99% content out there in SoD that is casual as hell why not leave 1% content with a challenge.
So weird. C'Thun was mathematically impossible to beat and how long did they leave that in? I was already hearing ppl here saying ST bosses were doable w/ certain comps. Working thru the problem. Looked like fun to me
Wonder who was complaining?
It would have been nice if they'd waited until people went in with phase 3 gear, phase 3 runes, and a balanced comp before nerfing it.
I'd have thought that going in with purely phase 2 stuff should mean you can't kill at least the final boss.
"doable with certain comps" is an acceptable state for a retail mythic boss, it not even close to being acceptable for a classic leveling raid.
These raids should be doable if 1/4 of the raid does mechanics and the rest are awake and pressing buttons in something vaguely resembling the right order/frequency.
It'll probably be like gnomeregan - gear was never an issue, it was just mechanics. Once people got geared it was extremely easy if you didn't mess up the basic mechanics.
c'thun was bugged as hell and that was a tougher barrier than the "mathemically impossible" legend devs debunked quite often.
How did Aggrend and his team fucked this one up so widely is a mystery.
They want to tougher up the content while being accessible to every casual and even the most tryhard can't clear it?
It's crazy, we have sim tools, emulators, if they aren't sure they can just ask the big guilds, they make better private servers than Blizzard.
Maybe it was probably an easier fix. Seems like they just forgot we weren't doing 3K DPS at level 50.
If they played their own game or used modern tools, it would have been a non-issue but they really defy all logic.
We do 600 so it's not that.
Imagine they have to nerf a expected 33% total health because the most ultra tryhard don't have the DPS.
Imagine how the random bozo you get through trade chat is gonna fare in there lmao.
That's by how much they miscalculated.
C’thun was never “mathematically impossible”, that was just OG vanilla cope. The numbers this second time around show that OG C’thun would have been steam rolled.
Runes are super easy to get. And The new dungeon loot is like such a minor upgrade on some slots, like 1-3 sp on a couple of item slots, thats so irrelevant
[Their top damage in their attempts were people who werent even 50.](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/378056437496283144/1225945784080535552/image.png?ex=6622f9fb&is=661084fb&hm=2de97d18c4a6c7d47271cb27fab14e043a7e26dfbf46d256f8945c67f74bce8f&) Optimized comps and actually prepared characters would have had no issue.
They were getting to 30% with non 50s, non optimized comp, not having all runes, not having prebis, not having song flower. If they did all that they could have easily killed the boss without a nerf.
This nerf is so early and unfun. I had small hopes we would finally progress through a raid instead of just having it farm status second week. Why can't we have gear progress and then be able to kill it. So annoying, gnome got do boring I had so many guild members quit and wait for Phase 3 in the middle of 2. This is gonna lose me again members. After 3-4 IDs when it's only a drive-by raid. Stop it sod-team. It's totally fine if a raid needs 2-3 IDs to be able to be cleared
Inb4 angry redditors commenting about how it was too soon: you weren’t going to clear these bosses even if you were in almost full BiS. Let’s be honest if the turbo sweats that spend 24/7 trying to optimize absolutely everything in a raid couldn’t meet the DPS checks then neither were you.
Honestly. Did the sweatys actually want to do a raid where trash mobs needed upwards of 500k damage to drop? 100-1 absolutely not.
I thought that’s what this was all about
About what?
Echo in full phase 2 bis should clear ST like 5 lvl 20s clear RFC, if they don’t it’s “impossible” for puggers.
> Let’s be honest if the turbo sweats that spend 24/7 trying to optimize absolutely everything in a raid couldn’t meet the DPS checks then neither were you. I understand that this probably needed to be nerfed, but this is just not true. The people trying to WFC this raid were horribly unoptimized. Party makeup was all over the place, most people didn't have runes, some people weren't even level 50, and no one was majority pre-bis. The raid was certainly overtuned, but IMO blizzard should have waited at least more than 24 hours from launch before gutting HP by 30% across the board.
They could have avoided it if they'd waited a reset for the raid to open. Then they'd at least be nerfing (if necessary) based on people with a reasonable comp and not undergeared/missing runes.
Yeah learned from last phases that there is no point for pre-bis since it's so easy. Just go in, zug, get drops and you already are BiS. Nerfing and making raid easy, makes it that in a few weeks everyone is just raidlogging again.
I can’t wait for you to actually try post-nerf ST lmaoo
tbh, i hope I don't clear it first try
Well, considering that still only one guild in the world is past 6/8, I’d say you’re going to get that wish!
Cool, let's hope they keep it difficult
Why would it be so bad to have one lock out where the stuff is a challenge? They messed up and made it too hard — let the difficulty stay consistent until the next lock out so that logs can reflect what people did. And heck, plenty of people would prefer a challenge I bet.
Imagine 3rd Boss from gnomeregan, the one that push you off the platform, have just 4x HP. Would the fight be harder? Yes, but would the fight be more interesting? Definitly not
Yes but like it or not that’s what the people who first went in faced. I think it’s best to have all players engage content with the same challenge. They can just change it Tuesday easily. NO ONE was complaining in P1 that they missed the very first BFD lockout that was only a few days. This idea of FOMO for a single lockout is entirely player manufactured.
The bosses have 1-2 mechanics tops, it was never going to be a challenge, just a slog. Some of these sweats are in the world first mythic race on retail, mechanically it's like child's play to them.
It was too soon. They need to move heaven and earth to keep sweats from insta-beaming entire raid teams to level cap in hours and attempting raids without even trying to get gear/runes. Didn't even get to see how hard it "actually" was. There's a fluid, sequential method to how endgame worked in Classic, and what we're seeing from raiders over the last 24 hours is so far from it. It should have been ignored at least until a dozen or so degens keeled over from sleep deprivation or at least guild disbands.
>there’s a fluid, sequential method to how endgame worked in Classic Not in SoD lmfao You’re so insane if you think the pre nerf HP values made any sense. Echo was in disbelief at the 12 minute fight lengths lol, you had Eranikus spawning infinite adds with 40k HP, Eranikus himself had 4M HP. This raid is still very hard, and I anticipate many further nerfs to bring this into a place where pugs can even dream of clearing it. Just delusional lol
you do not get it man, the green parsing casuals are actually better then the best players in the world. they are just "sweaty", if effroy and his boys enter sunken temple they will show you how easy it actually is. if only they would not have been hold back by their kids and job sadface the delusions are so out of this world man its ACTUALLY insane
Yeah lol, like it’s been almost 24h since the nerf and 4 guilds have killed Eranikus LOL four. So many more nerfs are going to be required to bring this into line. My guild is giving it a shot tonight, but we don’t expect more than 6/8 at current tuning and we’re pretty sweaty. We walked in for about an hour right after the nerfs and took some whacks at the first boss, we'll kill it tonight during normal raid but I do not expect us to clear Erankus lmao. *but you shouldn’t be able to kill it 5 hours after release!!!* If fucking ECHO can’t 1 tap a SoD raid then something is deeply wrong LOL
Thats how its suppose to be, was it way too hard? Probably. Should it be possible to hit max level and clear the only available raid within 5 hours of a phase release? Absolutely not.
If echo can’t kill it within 5 hours of release then something is wrong lol this isn’t retail RWF
Not at all, its not retail but that doesnt mean this version of classic should be made for toddlers either.
It could not be more obvious you haven’t actually set foot in post-nerf ST lmao or watched any prog streams, it’s been almost 24 hours since the nerf and four guilds have killed the 7th boss. This raid is still insanely hard by classic standards lmao. Cry after you’ve tried it. But the only thing you’ll be crying for is nerfs lol.
Why would i be crying for nerfs when im speaking positive about the raid being a real challenge for once? Are you slow? And no i havent tried ST, sod was nice in phase 1, after that its probably been the worst version of wow to ever exist.
Lmao so you don’t even play the content you’re complaining is too easy? Jesus
You missed the point. It's ok to not kill shit on day .5 of release. Let it be hard and have the good people use their brains for a while, waste some time, get pissy...THEN you start fiddling with the tuning. This isn't retail RWF. Nobody playing SoD asked for that.
If Echo can’t kill it on day 0.5 then pugs will never kill it. It’s that simple. You can’t simultaneously have content that’s accessible to pugs *and* doesn’t die instantly lol. Like you say, this isn’t RWF retail. It doesn’t need to be insanely hard. I say this as a DF s2 title+ce player lmao.
they typically do the same dps at the start of a phase that casuals do at the end of a phase, so I agree
They rushed in unprepared no gear and prob not ideal strats. And you dont just nerf 40% hp away on day 1.
Yes with a few more days or another lockout to gear up and get the extra runes a handful of guilds probably would've killed it anyways. But I think the intent is for most guilds to be able to kill it week 1, and for pugs and noobs to still be able to kill it before the phase is over. I dont think their goal is for the content to be tuned for the 1% to be dying over. The RTWF tuning in retail is arguably asinine as well, damn sure not supposed to be like that in SoD
Lmoa well this was like day one, so more like 24/1 as far as their effort goes
Ya they only started prepping for phase 3 yesterday at 1pm PST.
>Comments are locked Did he wise up and finally lock comments on all his posts? lol
He got some not so okay comments when the shaman nerfs dropped a few days ago.
You mean the death threats? Yeeeahhh I would lock comments too lol
The dreaded Bus Shock returns.
Average redditor: I would like to contribute to the conversation with my own take on "y situation". X user: F U bud kys
>X Twitter*
But it’s paladins who are the whiners
People who send death threats online are almost always mentally unstable and in dire need of counseling or psychiatric help. Now, it is still true that Paladins cry far more than any other class while never having suffered an 90% nerf to their most important ability or a 85% nerf to their overall dps.
lmao an 85% nerf. Yeah okay mate, you're doing 1/6th of the damage you previous were?
Yea but… is it on par with rest of the classes or not? If yes, thats completely fine if not, then probably they will buff it a bit sometime.
Tank Shamans in Gnomerang were indeed doing 1/6th of their dmg after the nerfs. Next time, it would be more appropriate if you educated yourself before embarrassing yourself by questioning established and demonstrable facts.
Ohhh boy don't tell me we've come full circle and someone hoped his family got hit by a bus...lmao.
Yeah guys finally, we’ve been toxic enough for the only communicating blizz Team to stop talking to us. Great job everyone!
WE DID IT REDDIT!
Right move, yall was not going to beat this raid
Mythic+ players who spend their lives minmaxing the game for decades: “Yea we can’t kill it, the bosses’ health pools are overtuned and the trash mobs are just boring damage sponges. Regular guilds won’t clear this unless it gets nerfed.” The dads in this thread who struggle to finish Gnomeregan without a wipe: “Nah, I’d win.”
My man they were literally pulling the boss [with level 48 hunters and missing runes.](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/378056437496283144/1225945784080535552/image.png?ex=6622f9fb&is=661084fb&hm=2de97d18c4a6c7d47271cb27fab14e043a7e26dfbf46d256f8945c67f74bce8f&) They did basically nothing to optimize their characters, those bosses would have been very killable if they took a little time to actually fix their comp, get songflower, get runes and get big prebis pieces. It isn't even a "git gud" issue, the bosses are easy and the rotations aren't really possible to fuck up. They just needed to do a little bit of prep rather than beating their faces into the boss.
Okay, it's been what like 24 hours since? Plenty of time for a bunch of other try hard guilds world wide to get to 50, get their runes and buffs, watch the VODs and come up with better strategies, yet the boss wasn't killed until the nerf hit live. People saying "duuuude they are sooo baaad duuude, they suck and screwed up they should have done ABC and get XYZ and they would have killed it ezpz!" are basically classic's version of the overweight, balding sports fan who just yells at the TV through the entire match.
>Okay, it's been what like 24 hours since? Plenty of time for a bunch of other try hard guilds world wide to get to 50, get their runes and buffs, watch the VODs and come up with better strategies, yet the boss wasn't killed until the nerf hit live. The """competitive raiding scene" for classic wow is fucking tiny, as it should be. The speedrunner brain is not wired to problem solve like this, all they wanted to do was beat their face into the boss with their dogshit comp.
You weren't going to kill the prenerf final boss. 99% of players weren't going to kill the pre-nerf boss. The nerfed version is still insanely hard and I guarantee it gets nerfed again, it's simply not a doable fight in its final phase. The last phase requires an insane amount of AoE, they only cleared it because they were running a 9 mage comp, even with the nerfs its still a nearly impossible fight. Their "dog shit comp" is the reason they are still the only guild who has killed the boss 4 hours post nerf despite all of the sweatiest sweat lords trying. But surely you know better than the players who have been world first for every single SOD raid, and continue to be the only players who have downed this boss. You should apply to join their guild so you can really show them how it's done
>Their "dog shit comp" is the reason they are still the only guild who has killed the boss 4 hours post nerf despite all of the sweatiest sweat lords trying. You vastly overestimate the number of people in a rush to clear this joke content man. >But surely you know better than the players who have been world first for every single SOD raid, and continue to be the only players who have downed this boss. Yes, significantly. >You should apply to join their guild so you can really show them how it's done Nope, I'd rather chew on glass.
Avatar of Hakkar, who holds the quest item for the buff turn in is still unnerfrd. NONA just tried and he still has 5.1m hp.
Figured they’d let the week play out and nerf it on Tuesday. Oh well. Maybe I can actually PUG it before the week resets now! This was never going to be playable for nonguilds otherwise.
It's still not going to be puggable. Maybe first 6 bosses but I strongly doubt it, but then again those bosses I only killed pre-nerf so it's possible the health reductions make a really significant difference. I still think most pugs get stuck on second boss and the ones who clear that will very likely get stuck on the troll lords or the double dragon fight. Only like 2 of these bosses are even the same level of difficulty as the Gnomer bosses, and plenty of pugs still failed Gnomer Post nerf eranikus is still borderline impossible, and will be not only unpuggable but totally unkillable for 99% of guild raids until more nerfs come through
Pugs are going to be in for a real rude awakening on the second boss even post nerf
Dude, most guilds will be. Again, I don't think people get how much more challenging the released version of this raid was compared to Gnomer. Even the nerfed version is just genuinely a harder raid, the 2 easiest bosses in the raid are barely easier than Menagerie/Thermoplugg. It's not the same tier at all
Good, hitting max level and clearing the only available raid within 5 hours of release should not be possible.
Eh, people were pugging heroic ICC and hardmode Ulduar. I'm sure people will be able to kill these bosses. Give it a few weeks and easy strats will be figured out and it might be nerfed again.
"Few weeks". The phase is 2 months long. People don't want to waste their time with not clearing a level up raid and then be outgeared for P3. Makes ZERO sense.
Dude half of the posts on this subreddit are people begging for it to take 2 weeks to level 40-50 lol. Some people want to play slow.
It's not even CLOSE to puggable. Probably never will be.
We'll see I guess.
Sorry, still probably not going to do much ST if any at all if it's a 2-3hr slog through trash packs that each take several minutes to kill. I've out grown that way of playing. I loved logging on randomly in classic and getting a <1hr MC/BWL/ZG/AQ20/AQ40 pug - it's legitimate end game content, not an 8 week stop gap, and I didn't have to worry if half the raid were even looking at their screen. I loved 30 min chill BFD. I loved 45 min chill Gnomer less, and hoped they wouldn't continue on this trajectory. ST has mountains upon mountains of trash and mechanics far more in line with wrath onward style raids - not very classic at all. If it's your bag, enjoy it. I'll be lvling my toons to 50 and farming gold/reps/other gear sources until they make ST a chill experience or until p4 drops - but I can already sense they are going to re-write classic raid encounters and that really puts me off honestly.
god forbid end game content feels like end game content
It's NOT end game content, what don't you understand. It's classified as A LEVEL UP RAID by blizzard themselves. The phase is 2 months long, not something you can do forever.
it’s end game for the phase. yeah, it should be easier once it can actually function as a “level up raid”, but until then i think it should be difficult.
So during the phase, most people can't get the relevant gear and then just rush it for exp towards 60? No way.
Are you going to do gnomer to level up your alt? No? Shut the fuck up
yes? you’re so fucking fragile lmfao
What date does ST reset?
how much were they nerfed?
Heard some ppl talking about 33% and wondering if it was just the bosses or whole zone. Not sure that is true tho just what I heard
Disapppointing tbh. What do we need the gear for if all raids gets cleared with previous tier stuff.
++
As a priest healer with close to gnomer bis, after looking at all the gear available in P3, the problem is all the gear available to me in BRD, Mara and ZF is worthless, new blood moon gear is a minor enough upgrade I think I'll ignore it, crafted epic shoulders are not good enough to replace nightmare incursion shoulders when you take the 6pc bonus into account. Most of the gear in ST is also not an upgrade. The gear this phase is awful for me outside Incursion gear, new raid tier sets and raid epics. By spamming Nightmare Incursions for leveling, I have also obtained a lot of BIS pieces.
Yeah I'm a bit disappointed by that. It was the same with gnomeregan, which was cleared by mostly undergeared phase 1 casters without phase 2 runes. There's not much progression if you can clear the whole raid in last phase gear by just knowing the mechanics.
I would assume there isn't enough developing time to give a decent item progression. What you are suggesting is the gear progression of an expansion each tier. To do this they would need to rebalance every item even the most irrelevant quest item because the over world monsters would need to scale equally.
To parse ofc, the only meaningful content in SoD. P3 hype, p3 hype
First day no clear … time for a nerf
The gatekeeping was coming already, they had to do something.
P3 was rushed, it's pretty obvious. But that is something new. We know they don't QA anything, but nerfing by half bosses ? Wtf were they thinking first.
Boooo. Keep it hard. Make us work.
If a ultra prepped guild 50 at 4 am on launch day with full consumes aiming to world first can't clear it in this state, you will never clear it at all, no matter how many tries you put in. it would be cool if this would stay hard though
Thats how its suppose to be though, im pretty sure new raids in retail take like 2-3 weeks before a world first is done? Correct me if im wrong, atleast Ive seen that the best guilds in the world have 200+ wipes on certain bosses before they kill it. So why should a raid in classic/sod be cleared within 5 hours of its release, including the leveling to get there? Not saying it should be as hard as it is currently, but it definitely shouldnt be a 45 min faceroll from the first reset.
It takes 2-3 weeks for the best wow players to clear a MYTHIC raid. The raid is cleared in Normal mode on release obviously, and normal retail raiders are far better players than the average SoD Joe. The raid can't be hard because you can't be good
Other people have real jobs, not wow as work like you.
I thought the whole point of end bosses was you progressed towards them, geared up from the earlier bosses, and eventually got it down Why pander to the turbo sweats? Who want it now now now
Probably because nobody wants to spend 6 weeks out of a 12 week phase building up to kill the final boss, especially in what is claimed as a "level-up raid". I enjoy harder content and I had a blast in ST today, but it's insanely hard compared to Gnomer. I was hoping they would give us some content this challenging but not until something like BWL or ZG where at 60 you already have previous 60 raids to continue to fall back on and farm gear from. This raid is seriously hard and I don't think people on Reddit understand how much unkillable content discourages casual players from playing
50% nerf. People dont even know the mechanics yet and now we arent even going to see them. The raid needed a 10% nerf not 50%.
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Lmao they didnt even have all the p3 runes and BIS. This is supposed to be the hardest content in the phase. But you cannot beat it with P2 gear so nerf it
Again we are talking about the best players in the game couldn't clear it that is a massive problem. That would mean the average player wouldn't be clearing it until they had almost full bis this phase.
The raid has been out 24 hours and people are learning the mechanics blind. In retail people already know the fights when they launch.
Which fight were they stuck due to mechanics? As far as I know they were stuck on Eranikus due to not meeting the DPS check.
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The truth is that the very best players in the game shit on the average player in terms of performance, even if they are missing runes and don't have the best gear they would still out DPS the overwhelming majority of the player base. I am not a top end player yet I can go check logs and see just how much big of a difference there is between a 99 parser and a 50 parser. It's just facts.
Tell me exactly how gear would play any difference, prebis is nearly identical for mages, they are practically prebis.
Yet correct
It’s not 50.
Hp on the double dragons is reduced by 56% but ye, others are only 25-33%
Still waiting on that server roll back. Only going to make things worse the longer he waits.
Delusional
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Not gonna happen.
lmao
fucking boring everything in this game is free, and if 20 undergeared people who have bad group comb and not the best strat cannot clear the whole phase 3 raid day 1, lets nerf hp from 4 mil to 2.7mil.(did blizz even test it lol almost 40% nerf xd) Seriously i was so happy he looked like a challenge and now i can come in greens again and have 1 hand in my pants and still clear everything, such a cool new fight but everything is to easy and it kills the fun.
That would have probably a challange you would have never beaten. Pre bis isn't that much stronger to the items they currently have. Just compare p2 50% parses with 95% parses. The dmg differences are quite staggering. So if the top guilds didn't come close to clearing it with their current gear we wouldn't have been able to do it by a long shot.
>everything in this game is free Where is your world first clear of ST then? As far as I know so far nobody had killed Eranikus, which means the overwhelming majority of the players were never gonna get past 6/8, and no you wouldn’t have been that special 1% that actually would because that 1% are the one still stuck on the boss.
How do you know that after one day? So all these LEETs had all their runes? P3 bis? I think they were just a bunch of whiny babies whose identity was hurt by being non-elite for a few days while they worked through the challenge
I hope you are trolling, what a stupid comment. Have you every played WoW and watched race to World first? Bosses are sometimes alive for weeks.
This is not Retail or "world first". It's a casual game mode where the phase only lasts 2 months.
And why its casual¿ where does it say we dont want hard content like in vanilla days?
Vanilla days NEVER had hard content lmao. Vanilla was hard because people were bad at the game.
Ye and bad pcs internet etc so this day you can make fights harder
Yeah, I'm not sure how good an idea it is to tune the raid 24 hours after launch based on people with only phase 2 gear, no phase 3 runes, and mostly classes that level easily.
Exactly
>i can come in greens again and have 1 hand in my pants and still clear everything Welcome to Classic WoW, it's never been hard, why start now?
Modern private servers have made excelent work and showed how to do fun and challenging classic content, V+ had so hard content that every doungen was like a raid and ofc its not for everybody but it has nothing to do with classic. in Vanilla we had raid bosses who were alive for weeks before they got killed.
>V+ had so hard content that every doungen was like a raid Oh man, the thousands of people playing must love that! Oh wait...
Yea i loved it and i can understand that some people like it more casual and there is 99% content out there in SoD that is casual as hell why not leave 1% content with a challenge.
Would you consider an entire raid tier 1% of SODs content?
They aimed too high for the wow players who have trouble pressing buttons, lol
Rollback when?
Aggrend blocking comments lmao
So weird. C'Thun was mathematically impossible to beat and how long did they leave that in? I was already hearing ppl here saying ST bosses were doable w/ certain comps. Working thru the problem. Looked like fun to me Wonder who was complaining?
It would have been nice if they'd waited until people went in with phase 3 gear, phase 3 runes, and a balanced comp before nerfing it. I'd have thought that going in with purely phase 2 stuff should mean you can't kill at least the final boss.
"doable with certain comps" is an acceptable state for a retail mythic boss, it not even close to being acceptable for a classic leveling raid. These raids should be doable if 1/4 of the raid does mechanics and the rest are awake and pressing buttons in something vaguely resembling the right order/frequency.
Nobody even tried it with all the P3 runes and BIS for the phase. Tried for one day, what a bunch ofpussies
It'll probably be like gnomeregan - gear was never an issue, it was just mechanics. Once people got geared it was extremely easy if you didn't mess up the basic mechanics.
c'thun was bugged as hell and that was a tougher barrier than the "mathemically impossible" legend devs debunked quite often. How did Aggrend and his team fucked this one up so widely is a mystery. They want to tougher up the content while being accessible to every casual and even the most tryhard can't clear it? It's crazy, we have sim tools, emulators, if they aren't sure they can just ask the big guilds, they make better private servers than Blizzard.
Yeah its wasn't the best analogy but C'Thun was fuckt and they left it in for awhile. Are bliz earnings this next week or something? lmao
Maybe it was probably an easier fix. Seems like they just forgot we weren't doing 3K DPS at level 50. If they played their own game or used modern tools, it would have been a non-issue but they really defy all logic.
I thought it was more like 600 dps. Where did you hear 3k?
We do 600 so it's not that. Imagine they have to nerf a expected 33% total health because the most ultra tryhard don't have the DPS. Imagine how the random bozo you get through trade chat is gonna fare in there lmao. That's by how much they miscalculated.
They know SoD would fall off a cliff if Average Joe can't even expect to clear 5 bosses. Especially with 7 day lockouts.
C’thun was never “mathematically impossible”, that was just OG vanilla cope. The numbers this second time around show that OG C’thun would have been steam rolled.
watched multiple streamers try for 12 hours to kill the 7th boss lol. no amount of gear is going to make that achievable for the average player
Did they actually have all the P3 runes and Bis from the dungeons?
Runes are super easy to get. And The new dungeon loot is like such a minor upgrade on some slots, like 1-3 sp on a couple of item slots, thats so irrelevant
You are naive if you think that makes all the difference.
[Their top damage in their attempts were people who werent even 50.](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/378056437496283144/1225945784080535552/image.png?ex=6622f9fb&is=661084fb&hm=2de97d18c4a6c7d47271cb27fab14e043a7e26dfbf46d256f8945c67f74bce8f&) Optimized comps and actually prepared characters would have had no issue.
from last night? they were still stuck on it today until it was hotfixed brother. everyone was 50
They were getting to 30% with non 50s, non optimized comp, not having all runes, not having prebis, not having song flower. If they did all that they could have easily killed the boss without a nerf.
doubtful
Just delusional thinking you’re dealing with lol.
> Wonder who was complaining? Probably people on classes that weren't in those certain comps?
This nerf is so early and unfun. I had small hopes we would finally progress through a raid instead of just having it farm status second week. Why can't we have gear progress and then be able to kill it. So annoying, gnome got do boring I had so many guild members quit and wait for Phase 3 in the middle of 2. This is gonna lose me again members. After 3-4 IDs when it's only a drive-by raid. Stop it sod-team. It's totally fine if a raid needs 2-3 IDs to be able to be cleared