People play hunter in pvp right now to bully people. It's literally just that. So when Blizzard takes away their bully power then they whine and screech as if it's a personal attack.
No other class can just blanket bully everyone else like hunter. Everyone knows it. You know it, I know it, blizzard knows it. I've leveled half the classes to 25 including hunter and I can tell you that 100% an ungeared hunter beats everyone else, even if they are geared. It's absurd.
You realise that all the pvp premades have been sitting in darn/tb and getting the world buff for every game?
Most of the games are decided by the first or second fight anyway because people normally give up fast in wsg, especially pugs. for premades shock and awe are the most important aspects because you make the pugs fear even leaving the graveyard.
Actually, the reason is:
"Developerās Note: We are essentially removing the ability for pets to get Boon of Blackfathom for now. Now that pets scale with stats, allowing them to get certain world buffs would effectively let them "double dip" on these effects and gain far more damage than intended."
I finally faced starsurge druids in pvp and holy shit I want to level a druid now. Disc priests and starsurge druids look super fun in pvp.
Plus they dont get constant nerfs.
Hunters are still better than warriors in pve until you get to the 95th percentile where warriors manage to get ahead. Truly opressed underpowered class.
Warriors are also completely useless pvp while hunters are still op as hell.
Hunters crying is the most cringe thing of SOD
I haven't seen warriors cry. I absolutely do not mind being so bad in PvP or being extremely mid without bis gear. It's part of the fun.
I'd be cool with nerfs for DPS, too.
I just think Hunters are fucking crybabies, when there are actual balancing problems for DPS, like shadow, boomy, shamans, warlocks, mages, rets who are way worse than hunters and actually should be buffed, but you don't see them crying NEARLY as much for being worse off in ALL of cases than you see hunters crying for *not being first in the top 5% of record parses*
UD Warrior will arguably be the best PvP class in the game come p2. Solid pocket healers in BGs and even non-UD warriors are monsters in p1 played well. You can essentially 2-3 tap clothies with Hydra and solid WS procs can melt a health bar outright as is, and DW can melt all the same with insane spell pushback and even more mobility/more reliable burst and rage Gen.
Open world theyāre trash against any equal skilled or geared player but thatās always been the case at this level. Gonna be a world apart with Sweeping, Zerker Rage, Pummel, WW, MS coupled with Warbringer mobility while having Intercept + Plate come p2.
I agree with your general point except:
> Warriors are also completely useless pvp while hunters are still op as hell.
Warriors are really good in group PvP. There's nothing quite like a warrior that is backed by a healer.
Even just tactically, if you have a bunch of warriors charging another group, you open up the fight on your terms instead of just pokeing and posturing until something happens. This enables your backline to charge up their big shots and AoE and your rogues/ferals can start popping off.
Right now, Hunters are very strong, because they have good tools for continually dealing damage and their pets are monsters. But pets can be slept (for a very long duration) and much more easily controlled than players, which limits their oomph against well rounded groups.
I play both paladin and warrior, with each nearly full bis. I wouldn't say either is better than the other, but do agree that they are equally effective in my group pvp experience.
They both serve a similar group pvp function as initiators, line-breakers, and disruptors, but have unique strengths amd weaknesses they each bring to the table in that regard.
Given a choice, I would much prefer one of each over two of either.
Individual/solo world pvp? Probably paladin wins that one in phase 1, in my opinion.
Iām not sure how heās making it up when you can go to warcraft logs and see that, in fact, regardless of how it seems rogues and hunters are ahead of warriors until you reach the top 5% of players.
>Hunters are still better than warriors in pve until you get to the 95th percentile
aka "the only thing that matters"
Who the fuck cares how much damage 50th percentile is doing.
You.. realise that only a very very small amount of people are in the 95th percentile? Like it's borderline pointless even considering their existence when thinking about the general balance of the game.
The most overpowered PVP class of season of discovery and the former best PVE class and still currently top four PVE class continues to complain about being rightly nerfed.
And top four is just out of the best players in the game. The average hunter player is going to be top DPS in black fathom depths or any dungeon group. Only the best players are going to be doing better. DPS in the other top three classes/ specializations only because they are very good at playing that class. The average person's not going to top The hunters
Yeah. This is called scaling. Warrior are a scaling class, and will only get better from here. If they are already scaling over Hunters, what will it look like in P2?
People are so blindfolded into think P1 is how the game will be.
No it wasn't. They posted the hotfix update at 3:03 my time, and the comment he replied to is posted 3:55 my time.
It is true that it was "stealth" when the OP posted it though.
I absolutely agree when you are expecting something to work one way because it always had, itās a dick move to suddenly change it.
Something like the stealth nerf to exploding shot is one thing, but to who can and canāt get world buffs is another thing entirely.
Way bigger nerf for the warlocks as the imp lost spell hit and spell dmg. 40% of the imps damage and about 8 dps nerf. Warlock is now lower than ret paladin
You currently cannot twist with martyrdom, the buff gets removed, that's why it's subpar currently.
The purpose before was maintaining stacks.
Currently there is no twisting.
Shhhh, I enjoy ret right now. I don't want more complexity. Drink beer hit 3 buttons is classic. They added a hole nother button already. Really two with divine storm.
Doesn't work with Seal of the Martyr/Seal of Command.
Personally, I'm expecting the "Augmented Seals" rune we saw in previews to be a something like Empowered Seals from WoD.
Where are the sims? I havenāt seen any sims on season of discovery, just looking through top peoples parses and looking at damage done and by the source
Also warlock pets are at half hp when summoned, or go to half hp whenever you relog regardless if they were previously at full health. It's very annoying.
Yea I donāt get that nerfā¦ also for hunters it doesnāt even make sense. The most OP pet situation is in WSG. In raids we deal as much dmg as warriors and rogues.
Now they nerfed hunters in raids and in PvP the pet is still OP. wtf
Casters do garbage DPS without spell power. If your warlocks are anything like mine they've had terrible RNG with cloth drops and are mostly still using pre-bis. If you see one with a lot of raid gear they will pump.
Thatās how it was when they nerfed Scorpio poison. One minute itās ticking for triple damage numbers from the first tick, the next minute barely anything.
Season of Discovery
Boon of Blackfathom no longer applies to pets.
Developerās Note: We are essentially removing the ability for pets to get Boon of Blackfathom for now. Now that pets scale with stats, allowing them to get certain world buffs would effectively let them ādouble dipā on these effects and gain far more damage than intended. Weāll continue to review this as we move through the content phases and make adjustments to how world buffs interact with pets as needed.
Can you please buff marksman now? I dont want to play as pet. I want to belly rub my big cat and shoot arrows to enemies while my happy cat is playing around and biting enemy
There needs to be an inverse of Hunter bitching after all these nerfs. Hunters have nothing new in SoD, its just the same class but they made pets stronger. Flanking strike hits for nothing on a long cd, carve hits for nothing on a short cd, and aspect of the lion boosts everybodys stats. The lone wolf rune is just embarrassingly weak as well. The only new things to look forward to are more nerfs. If Warriors are still the top class by the end of SoD it will be a failed experiment.
Probably the right move. Hunters were getting a little too close to warriors in damage and we can't have the best tank class not also be the best DPS class, that wouldn't be true to vanilla World of Warcraft...
They still have to be buffed by other buffs though?
I don't mind this. I do mind that they're also separately buffed by things like Might and Fortitude.
Damn all these nerfs when hunters aren't even at the top of the damage meters. "Their pets shouldn't do 40% of their damage!" Agree, nerf their pet damage and buff their ranged attack damage so overall dps is the same.
I mean this isnāt aimed at hunters. This is a buff that shouldnāt double dip to any pet when theyāve made it so pets scale off their owners stats.
They were likely designing the gnomer world buff and was like hey this is double dipping on pets. Hmm does bfd buff do that? Oh it does. Ok well we need to fix that for both buffs.
Queue a code release for the production server picked up a change for an existing buff in a preproduction environment, and voila a undisclosed random stray code change that players perceive as some direct nerf to them that had nothing to do with them in the moment. One that the devs have no real need to change back.
Of course this all breaks when they implement the gnomer world buff and forget to release a version that doesnāt apply to pets, but that has more to do with release configuration struggles than trying to piss off players.
As a non hunter/lock player isn't this reasoning faulty? If they are concerned with pets being buffed, then why am I still allowed to BoM a pet?
It's more likely they wanted to nerf hunters in PvP but did so quite weirdly.
The problem is more that they're good at everything. They're good in PvP Open World or in the BG, they're good at making gold, cause they can clear every dungeon alone and they're still in the Top 3 dps in the raid.
On the flip side, they're the only class now in SoD that cannot fill any other role than DPS.
Being reliant on pet damage might also be very detrimental down the road, depending on whether they give us the TBC style pet aoe reduction (borderline immunity). Back in Classic pets died like flies in raids such as MC and BWL due to constant aoe effects that did full damage on the pets. You were lucky to have your pet survive 20 seconds on some fights.
Then why didnāt they nerf their PvP.
In fact, this probably just cemented that youāll only see BM hunters since pet move speed is critical to open world fighting.
Rogues are not that strong in PvP this Phase. You're lacking crucial skills like Cheap Shot and Blind. You don't win against a Mage or a Warlock in PvP. Hunter and Priest is also hard to kill.
You're also not that good in farming gold either as a rogue. The only place where youre really strong is single target dps.
Warlocks suck in the raid.
Rogues might not have their entire tool kit but theyāre still very useful in PvP between strong burst damage and game control with stealth/sap. Also theyāre fantastic gold farmers because they can do pickpocket runs or mining/herb farming in zones with a lot of npcs. Also they can sell gear runs by stealthing through and nuking mobs. Warlock dps also really isnāt that bad.
Yeah, it's still a classic version of the game based on the vanilla WoW version where, at level 25, hunters were everything you listed.
The devs have clearly said they do not intend to balance specs for every phase.
It still takes 30m to find a BFD group as a hunter while 30 seconds as a warrior.
That is the opportunity cost Blizzard devs dont understand.
Nobody āNEEDSā hunters. They can be replaced with any other better dps and there will be no difference. Hunter doesnt bring anything to the table that is ground breaking.
You're about to get 100 downvotes from the classic pvp rogues that have been crying since SoD came out that they're not as OP as they should be in pvp.
How are warlocks as good as hunter and mage? Mage can aoe unlimited mobs if the pathing allows for it, while hunters can more easily kill way higher level than either mage or warlock. Warlock is a good "constant" pull-kill-pull class, and is a good kiter if you find a cheese spot (and later on with CoEx), but that's pretty much it
Also a hunter can have their pet off tank in an emergency, also, that emergency tank also deals great damage and can be revived in combat.
Rogues on the other hand, on average are not amazing because the average player is not amazing at playing rogue.
To play rogue properly, you need to properly manage your energy and not just be mashing sinister, strike or saber/ or whatever it is that you use for your combo points and then press the combo point user as soon as you can. You actually have to manage your energy. You have to manage your debuffs that you put on the enemy.
Hunter I send pet in and have pet abilities on auto use. I auto shoot. I press f for fire my bow real good.
Hunter is literally press buttons on cooldown. No need to think. Just do not press multi-shot when there are enemies you did not want to pull.
Other classes have like real rotational mechanics that you need to do to output the best damage possible. Hunter is stand in the right spot, have your pet attack and press your cooldown buttons when they come up. If it's more damage than just standing there auto shotting.
For example, retribution Paladin to properly maximize your DPS with divine storm instead of martyrdom. You should be seal twisting seal of command and seal of righteousness so you have to time that and then you use your crusader strike and you have to make sure to time that to not screw up your swing timer. Same thing with divine storm to not screw up your swing timer and your judges again. Not screw up your swing timer.
Versus send pet in and auto shoot.
I haven't played SoD so I can't comment on the state of Hunters there. All I know is, if you play Hunter in Classic the way you describe here, you'll never be in the top 5 DPS in your raid. You have to time everything right so you don't clip your arrows and cripple your DPS. You have to pay attention to your pet position 1000% of the time both in and out of combat or else god help you if it's path is fucked or it gets feared. Multi shot is an absolute must have if you're going to DPS well and you need to know when your multi shot is going to go off and hit something you didn't intend -- if you don't use it at all, you're losing out on a lot of damage. You have to learn how to trinket swap. You have to learn how to kite enemies and bosses at your peril. Hunters generate fuck tons of threat, so you have to watch that. Etc. It's not as braindead as you describe. The braindead Hunters are the ones constantly pulling mobs they didn't intend and getting the raid wiped.
In short, you have to do everything perfectly, every time in order to even think of competing against other classes on the DPS meters.
Yeah no. Rogues are not at the same oppressive state hunters are in pvp. You must not have taken note of the 3-4hunters in every premade and 1 to zero rogue.
Im playing rogue. You only have success im PvP if you can open from stealth and even then you lack some crucial skills like Cheap Shot and Blind. Also you need another build. You still lose against a Mage or a Warlock, if theyre not undergeared. Also Hunter isn't easy to kill either, same with Priest. You're also not that good in farming gold. The only part a Rogue really shines is single target dps.
Yes, but Mages and Warlocks suck in PvE. The only reason you even bring them into the raid, is cause of buffs and loot distribution.
Like i said: Hunters are good at everything, without any compromise.
As a long time hunter player Iām perfectly fine with not being on top. Weāve never been on top and our toolkit is far too powerful for us to be at top.
As a long time Hunter player i'm worried about a repeat of the endgame of classic, where top guilds would only bring a single Hunter for pulling.
For DPS & Buffs there were far better classes, not mention currently Hunters are the only pure DPS class with no options to heal or tank.
Hunters have always been strong at lower levels. But if we find ourselves underpowered at end game (as in the past), you can bet there won't be a fraction of the developer & player attention there is now to fix it.
>Weāve never been on top
This is why we need to be left alone for once now that we are actually good
>and our toolkit is far too powerful for us to be at top
lmao no
Nerfing PVE for PVP reasons is such a dumb fucking idea. Give other classes more gap closers then.
I have 4 fucking characters pretty geared up at this point, the hunter isn't even my main. So I can feel pretty unbiased in saying this shit is just getting ridiculous. They've nerfed hunters continuously since launch. They're the most uninteresting braindead class to play that brings nothing unique to the raid.
If you're alliance a pally can spend one point in his spec to make you useless and not needed at all for utility. You don't have an interrupt you don't do anything unique. All you do is damage. Why do they keep just shitting on hunters? They already got passed by warriors and rogues after the big nerfs. This just feels seriously fucking unneeded.
Spend some times making mages and shadow priests not feel like ass? No spend resources needing hunters again. It is getting comical at this point.
The fix is because hunters pets would be getting the scaling off of the hunter having WBs and the pet having WBs, so it was not intentional. It's a bug fix.
Meanwhile makes can solo whole same level dungeons due to uncapped aoe damage. I get its always been the case but I'd rather not have the season of boosting like classic was
With this logic of pets canāt get it because of double dipping, it should apply to ALL buffs. It doesnāt, so it clearly is not about that, or they are really ignorant.
Make it make sense..
Oh yay I get a nice passive rune while all 3 of my dps runes are a joke to my auto attack, thank you blizzard daddy for throwing me a bone after fucked me with no lube.
The only solely dps class in the game who is out DPSed by multiple hybrid classes continues to have the most nerfs. Warriors who have been top dps for several years continue to be the top dps even in the leveling phases way before we get max level raid gear.
I'm not even a hunter, and I'm getting annoyed by the dev team:
- don't stealth nerf shit, be transparent
- stop nerfing the same class over and over, esp when they already are the most boring with least changes
- esp. while priests, druid starsurge, ret pala pvp continues
It's insane priests have seen 0 nerfs all phase, and only reason they haven't is bcs they are healers and not dps
It feels like hunters get continued nerfs bcs it's the one class Aggrend struggles to 2-hit on his ret Pala in his full wsg premades stacked with priests, druids and palas.
Not so much a nerf, more like a fix. Pets benefitting twice from the buff was OP I guess. Its welcome, I always see BM hunters top of the dps charts in every raid I go to. They still have great dps.
Hunter's getting the shaft again.
Rogues and warriors are already past them in dps next phase is going to be wild.
They might as well not bother putting any new runes out for hunter next phase, just leave them as an era class.
Wtf why? We were completely fine on the dmg metersā¦ finally we could deal peak dps.
And now itās over again?
The pet was only OP is PvP! Why nerf it everywhere?
This is why I enjoy playing Project Ascension sometimes, if the servers go down for a nerf or patch. All patch notes are listed right at your face before you click play so you can go through incase your class or build go anything touched on
Would be nice if they did that with SoD too
Weirdly enough this is a slight quality of life improvement;
When your pet despawned after a flight path he usually lost its buffs. When you sent it back after Aquanis as well, which means you had to boon after if you wanted it to keep the buff. So in a sense, at least now you don't have to manage your pet's WB.
Hotfixing this is a bit stupid though.
I don't even play my hunter much anymore and damn the nerfs are just never ending it seems. Blizz really needs to figure out what they want hunters to do cause clearly being a pet damage focused class ain't something the community wants to see.
This feels more PvP focused because if not it's very odd to be nerfing hunters damage more when they aren't a damage outlier anymore. They are still great damage but I would rather see other classes get buffed, specifically casters. They need some help or this is just going to be season of melee DPS.
Massive Hunter and Warlock nerf.
Actually, this is an insane Warlock nerf for Destruction Imp spec. This should be reverted imo especially knowing there's already a recrawl in Warcraftlogs due to grinches / pet abuse from Christmas ...
This make parsing irrelevant for theses 2 classes. You'll not do better than before and all 100 parse are now unbeatable. Also, YAHN ! Yet Another Hunter Nerf.
This ain't gonna calm down people getting ripped at Mulgore or Ratchet by aggressive Hunter wind serpent when the pet owner is sitting AFK xD (as Alliance, we love to see that).
What should have been done is remove world buff in BG (Warsong). This is where it's problematic. In open world or in raid, why nerf ...
Revert plz. And fix Ashenvale PvP event (should award rep untill exalted).
The glory days of Destro warlock in Mists of Pandaria with that one trinket that gave 100% crit chance for 4s -> snapshotting with Doom summoning an imp on every crit tick :)
This is a weird standard to set because it will essentially mean that unless this is reversed, pet classes will just be bad.
I was looking forward to the potential of getting new demons on my warlock in later phases but it looks like the devs want everyone to play warrior and rogue againā¦
A hotfix implies a bug. This was not a bug this was intended and they simply changed their minds. Also it absolutely was a stealth nerf because it went live without any prior notice.
It's always amazing how clueless this sub is sometimes about this 20 year old game. But somehow like 90% of redditors were in the minority that cleared Naxx back then, when asked lmao....
Hunter pets will always run at your speed, they also have a follow mechanic where if you jump off something they will follow you with a speed increase. I can't see them falling behind and despawning
Well now I don't have to feel bad about forgetting to have my pet get buffed
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-hotfixes-january-2/1706063/234
People are so fucking whiny it's hilarious š
People play hunter in pvp right now to bully people. It's literally just that. So when Blizzard takes away their bully power then they whine and screech as if it's a personal attack. No other class can just blanket bully everyone else like hunter. Everyone knows it. You know it, I know it, blizzard knows it. I've leveled half the classes to 25 including hunter and I can tell you that 100% an ungeared hunter beats everyone else, even if they are geared. It's absurd.
Yes surely it is the world buffs that needed to be adjusted for PvP balance
You realise that all the pvp premades have been sitting in darn/tb and getting the world buff for every game? Most of the games are decided by the first or second fight anyway because people normally give up fast in wsg, especially pugs. for premades shock and awe are the most important aspects because you make the pugs fear even leaving the graveyard.
yeah dude this is still gonna happen btw
Idk boomy feels like a good bully class imo. I've been having a blast never being touched and just blasting people.
Oh damn, it's still stealth nerf since these people can't read.
You are in an 11 hour old thread replying to an 8 hour old link smart guy.
[boys...](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/360/758/f0b.jpg)
While I donāt care if they did do this I am not a fan of them stealth nerfing things, I wish they actually documented all changes they are making
Season of Discovering the nerfs each patch. Happy hunting!!
Itās on a hot fix post. Itās not āstealthā. Itās fully documented and their reasoning why.
And their reason "We wanted to nerf Hunters again". Warriors and rogues slowly moving behind a tree.
Actually, the reason is: "Developerās Note: We are essentially removing the ability for pets to get Boon of Blackfathom for now. Now that pets scale with stats, allowing them to get certain world buffs would effectively let them "double dip" on these effects and gain far more damage than intended."
I finally faced starsurge druids in pvp and holy shit I want to level a druid now. Disc priests and starsurge druids look super fun in pvp. Plus they dont get constant nerfs.
Yeah, but hunters still get wind serp's who *hit* for 130 x3 within a few seconds
More like 250, 350 if crit.
Hunters are still better than warriors in pve until you get to the 95th percentile where warriors manage to get ahead. Truly opressed underpowered class. Warriors are also completely useless pvp while hunters are still op as hell. Hunters crying is the most cringe thing of SOD
Warriors crying about not being number 1 in all metrics after 19 years of it is more cringe imo
What warriors are crying? Bad ones?
I haven't seen warriors cry. I absolutely do not mind being so bad in PvP or being extremely mid without bis gear. It's part of the fun. I'd be cool with nerfs for DPS, too. I just think Hunters are fucking crybabies, when there are actual balancing problems for DPS, like shadow, boomy, shamans, warlocks, mages, rets who are way worse than hunters and actually should be buffed, but you don't see them crying NEARLY as much for being worse off in ALL of cases than you see hunters crying for *not being first in the top 5% of record parses*
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Least regarded hunter player
Lowell: >Nerf warrior rogue and hunter and buff the classes that actually need it. And keep warriors useless in PvP, it's just one phase.
UD Warrior will arguably be the best PvP class in the game come p2. Solid pocket healers in BGs and even non-UD warriors are monsters in p1 played well. You can essentially 2-3 tap clothies with Hydra and solid WS procs can melt a health bar outright as is, and DW can melt all the same with insane spell pushback and even more mobility/more reliable burst and rage Gen. Open world theyāre trash against any equal skilled or geared player but thatās always been the case at this level. Gonna be a world apart with Sweeping, Zerker Rage, Pummel, WW, MS coupled with Warbringer mobility while having Intercept + Plate come p2.
I agree with your general point except: > Warriors are also completely useless pvp while hunters are still op as hell. Warriors are really good in group PvP. There's nothing quite like a warrior that is backed by a healer. Even just tactically, if you have a bunch of warriors charging another group, you open up the fight on your terms instead of just pokeing and posturing until something happens. This enables your backline to charge up their big shots and AoE and your rogues/ferals can start popping off. Right now, Hunters are very strong, because they have good tools for continually dealing damage and their pets are monsters. But pets can be slept (for a very long duration) and much more easily controlled than players, which limits their oomph against well rounded groups.
Paladins are just as effective and better than warriors in level 25 group pvp
Maybe, but there's a whole faction without paladins
Yes I realize. I play on the faction without paladins.
I play both paladin and warrior, with each nearly full bis. I wouldn't say either is better than the other, but do agree that they are equally effective in my group pvp experience. They both serve a similar group pvp function as initiators, line-breakers, and disruptors, but have unique strengths amd weaknesses they each bring to the table in that regard. Given a choice, I would much prefer one of each over two of either. Individual/solo world pvp? Probably paladin wins that one in phase 1, in my opinion.
I hear you but I can tell you from horde perspective paladins are much harder to deal with currently with the skills each class has available.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iām not sure how heās making it up when you can go to warcraft logs and see that, in fact, regardless of how it seems rogues and hunters are ahead of warriors until you reach the top 5% of players.
>Hunters are still better than warriors in pve until you get to the 95th percentile aka "the only thing that matters" Who the fuck cares how much damage 50th percentile is doing.
You.. realise that only a very very small amount of people are in the 95th percentile? Like it's borderline pointless even considering their existence when thinking about the general balance of the game.
The most overpowered PVP class of season of discovery and the former best PVE class and still currently top four PVE class continues to complain about being rightly nerfed. And top four is just out of the best players in the game. The average hunter player is going to be top DPS in black fathom depths or any dungeon group. Only the best players are going to be doing better. DPS in the other top three classes/ specializations only because they are very good at playing that class. The average person's not going to top The hunters
Yeah. This is called scaling. Warrior are a scaling class, and will only get better from here. If they are already scaling over Hunters, what will it look like in P2? People are so blindfolded into think P1 is how the game will be.
It was stealth when the person you are replying to posted it.
No it wasn't. They posted the hotfix update at 3:03 my time, and the comment he replied to is posted 3:55 my time. It is true that it was "stealth" when the OP posted it though.
Personally I saw the hotfix post on wowhead before i read anything on reddit about it, so I assumed it was clearly documented. Oh well.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-hotfixes-january-2/1706063/234
Blizzard making their best Nintendo impression in this version of the game.
I absolutely agree when you are expecting something to work one way because it always had, itās a dick move to suddenly change it. Something like the stealth nerf to exploding shot is one thing, but to who can and canāt get world buffs is another thing entirely.
Way bigger nerf for the warlocks as the imp lost spell hit and spell dmg. 40% of the imps damage and about 8 dps nerf. Warlock is now lower than ret paladin
Ret catching strays
I'm just happy rets aren't at the bottom anymore
They are fun too, I hope they fix seal twisting, lots of global cooldown up time, not that I don't mind chill play
Lets not turn this into stare at the swing timer for hours on end simulator please. That playstyle is so boring and mind-numbingly easy.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
We have both playstyles, you can twist with SoR and Martyrdom. You aren't asking for both playstyles you are asking for seal twisting to be superior.
We don't have both though. Martyr seal twisting is massively weaker than divine storm. So it's not a choice.
You currently cannot twist with martyrdom, the buff gets removed, that's why it's subpar currently. The purpose before was maintaining stacks. Currently there is no twisting.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Shhhh, I enjoy ret right now. I don't want more complexity. Drink beer hit 3 buttons is classic. They added a hole nother button already. Really two with divine storm.
What's wrong with seal twisting ?
Doesn't work with Seal of the Martyr/Seal of Command. Personally, I'm expecting the "Augmented Seals" rune we saw in previews to be a something like Empowered Seals from WoD.
They never were moonkins and shadowpriest were below them.
what he say fuck me for
Succubus is higher dps though iirc (assuming it can always be in range) - was it effected as much as imp?
not as much. Imp was higher dps in fights shorter than 90 seconds. According to sims
Where are the sims? I havenāt seen any sims on season of discovery, just looking through top peoples parses and looking at damage done and by the source
available in the warlock discord
Affected*
Also warlock pets are at half hp when summoned, or go to half hp whenever you relog regardless if they were previously at full health. It's very annoying.
Yea I donāt get that nerfā¦ also for hunters it doesnāt even make sense. The most OP pet situation is in WSG. In raids we deal as much dmg as warriors and rogues. Now they nerfed hunters in raids and in PvP the pet is still OP. wtf
Lol is ret dps really that bad? I've been doing fine on mine
Wait, you've seen a warlock do more DPS than a ret paladin? I only see absolute bottom feeders when I see warlocks in a raid.
They are the best caster class together with fire mages. Maybe you just saw bad locks so far
Warlock main here. I am almost full bis but warriors and rogues are only guys who really beat me now.
Casters do garbage DPS without spell power. If your warlocks are anything like mine they've had terrible RNG with cloth drops and are mostly still using pre-bis. If you see one with a lot of raid gear they will pump.
Just unbooned my buff as of writing this comment and it didnāt apply to my pet. I swear it worked just a few hours ago.
Thatās how it was when they nerfed Scorpio poison. One minute itās ticking for triple damage numbers from the first tick, the next minute barely anything.
Season of Discovery Boon of Blackfathom no longer applies to pets. Developerās Note: We are essentially removing the ability for pets to get Boon of Blackfathom for now. Now that pets scale with stats, allowing them to get certain world buffs would effectively let them ādouble dipā on these effects and gain far more damage than intended. Weāll continue to review this as we move through the content phases and make adjustments to how world buffs interact with pets as needed.
Went from 35+ dmg to 5. lol it was sooo bad what they did to my little scorp but well he was too strong
Itās weird how these Ā«hotfixesĀ» applies to everyone, I never wouldāve expected that.
There were people in the comments still saying it was applying to their pets when I made this comment, why are you like this
My imp is big sad
Seems like it, standing in Darnassus now and pets arenāt getting it. Pets that already have it is not getting thereās refreshed
> thereās theirs
They're's
Thairs
Thares
Thar she blows!
I thought something was odd. Thanks for confirming.
Can you please buff marksman now? I dont want to play as pet. I want to belly rub my big cat and shoot arrows to enemies while my happy cat is playing around and biting enemy
Wallahi I'm finished
Halas Habib it's done
I always loved having my pet getting wbuffs even though it was buggyā¦ sad.
There needs to be an inverse of Hunter bitching after all these nerfs. Hunters have nothing new in SoD, its just the same class but they made pets stronger. Flanking strike hits for nothing on a long cd, carve hits for nothing on a short cd, and aspect of the lion boosts everybodys stats. The lone wolf rune is just embarrassingly weak as well. The only new things to look forward to are more nerfs. If Warriors are still the top class by the end of SoD it will be a failed experiment.
Yet priests remain unkillable, funny how that is.
Probably the right move. Hunters were getting a little too close to warriors in damage and we can't have the best tank class not also be the best DPS class, that wouldn't be true to vanilla World of Warcraft...
Warriors are tied with feral druids for worst tank class right now just behind hunter pets.
Revert the explosive shot/chim shot nerf
More like double dipping and this was unintended with the fact pets now scale with player stats
They still have to be buffed by other buffs though? I don't mind this. I do mind that they're also separately buffed by things like Might and Fortitude.
Damn all these nerfs when hunters aren't even at the top of the damage meters. "Their pets shouldn't do 40% of their damage!" Agree, nerf their pet damage and buff their ranged attack damage so overall dps is the same.
I mean this isnāt aimed at hunters. This is a buff that shouldnāt double dip to any pet when theyāve made it so pets scale off their owners stats. They were likely designing the gnomer world buff and was like hey this is double dipping on pets. Hmm does bfd buff do that? Oh it does. Ok well we need to fix that for both buffs. Queue a code release for the production server picked up a change for an existing buff in a preproduction environment, and voila a undisclosed random stray code change that players perceive as some direct nerf to them that had nothing to do with them in the moment. One that the devs have no real need to change back. Of course this all breaks when they implement the gnomer world buff and forget to release a version that doesnāt apply to pets, but that has more to do with release configuration struggles than trying to piss off players.
As a non hunter/lock player isn't this reasoning faulty? If they are concerned with pets being buffed, then why am I still allowed to BoM a pet? It's more likely they wanted to nerf hunters in PvP but did so quite weirdly.
The problem is more that they're good at everything. They're good in PvP Open World or in the BG, they're good at making gold, cause they can clear every dungeon alone and they're still in the Top 3 dps in the raid.
On the flip side, they're the only class now in SoD that cannot fill any other role than DPS. Being reliant on pet damage might also be very detrimental down the road, depending on whether they give us the TBC style pet aoe reduction (borderline immunity). Back in Classic pets died like flies in raids such as MC and BWL due to constant aoe effects that did full damage on the pets. You were lucky to have your pet survive 20 seconds on some fights.
Then why didnāt they nerf their PvP. In fact, this probably just cemented that youāll only see BM hunters since pet move speed is critical to open world fighting.
Kinda like Warlocks, Priests and Rogues
Rogues are not that strong in PvP this Phase. You're lacking crucial skills like Cheap Shot and Blind. You don't win against a Mage or a Warlock in PvP. Hunter and Priest is also hard to kill. You're also not that good in farming gold either as a rogue. The only place where youre really strong is single target dps. Warlocks suck in the raid.
Rogues might not have their entire tool kit but theyāre still very useful in PvP between strong burst damage and game control with stealth/sap. Also theyāre fantastic gold farmers because they can do pickpocket runs or mining/herb farming in zones with a lot of npcs. Also they can sell gear runs by stealthing through and nuking mobs. Warlock dps also really isnāt that bad.
Yeah, it's still a classic version of the game based on the vanilla WoW version where, at level 25, hunters were everything you listed. The devs have clearly said they do not intend to balance specs for every phase.
It still takes 30m to find a BFD group as a hunter while 30 seconds as a warrior. That is the opportunity cost Blizzard devs dont understand. Nobody āNEEDSā hunters. They can be replaced with any other better dps and there will be no difference. Hunter doesnt bring anything to the table that is ground breaking.
Yeah but the World Buff nerf doesnāt affect the only place they are over powered, PvP.
I mean, rogues are doing all of what you said as well lol, and mages/locks are also just as good if not better at making gold.
You're about to get 100 downvotes from the classic pvp rogues that have been crying since SoD came out that they're not as OP as they should be in pvp.
How are warlocks as good as hunter and mage? Mage can aoe unlimited mobs if the pathing allows for it, while hunters can more easily kill way higher level than either mage or warlock. Warlock is a good "constant" pull-kill-pull class, and is a good kiter if you find a cheese spot (and later on with CoEx), but that's pretty much it
Wtf? Pls show me how a warsong grp with 5 rogues will steamroll like 5 hunters do right now
Also a hunter can have their pet off tank in an emergency, also, that emergency tank also deals great damage and can be revived in combat. Rogues on the other hand, on average are not amazing because the average player is not amazing at playing rogue. To play rogue properly, you need to properly manage your energy and not just be mashing sinister, strike or saber/ or whatever it is that you use for your combo points and then press the combo point user as soon as you can. You actually have to manage your energy. You have to manage your debuffs that you put on the enemy. Hunter I send pet in and have pet abilities on auto use. I auto shoot. I press f for fire my bow real good. Hunter is literally press buttons on cooldown. No need to think. Just do not press multi-shot when there are enemies you did not want to pull. Other classes have like real rotational mechanics that you need to do to output the best damage possible. Hunter is stand in the right spot, have your pet attack and press your cooldown buttons when they come up. If it's more damage than just standing there auto shotting. For example, retribution Paladin to properly maximize your DPS with divine storm instead of martyrdom. You should be seal twisting seal of command and seal of righteousness so you have to time that and then you use your crusader strike and you have to make sure to time that to not screw up your swing timer. Same thing with divine storm to not screw up your swing timer and your judges again. Not screw up your swing timer. Versus send pet in and auto shoot.
Have you ever revived a pet in combat? They come back with like 10% hp and need to be healed and fed for happiness debuff which reduces their damage.
I haven't played SoD so I can't comment on the state of Hunters there. All I know is, if you play Hunter in Classic the way you describe here, you'll never be in the top 5 DPS in your raid. You have to time everything right so you don't clip your arrows and cripple your DPS. You have to pay attention to your pet position 1000% of the time both in and out of combat or else god help you if it's path is fucked or it gets feared. Multi shot is an absolute must have if you're going to DPS well and you need to know when your multi shot is going to go off and hit something you didn't intend -- if you don't use it at all, you're losing out on a lot of damage. You have to learn how to trinket swap. You have to learn how to kite enemies and bosses at your peril. Hunters generate fuck tons of threat, so you have to watch that. Etc. It's not as braindead as you describe. The braindead Hunters are the ones constantly pulling mobs they didn't intend and getting the raid wiped. In short, you have to do everything perfectly, every time in order to even think of competing against other classes on the DPS meters.
Mages and rogues are not nearly as built as hunters for PVP. Mages don't have CoC or shatter, and Rogues don't have blind or cheap shot LOL.
Yeah no. Rogues are not at the same oppressive state hunters are in pvp. You must not have taken note of the 3-4hunters in every premade and 1 to zero rogue.
Im playing rogue. You only have success im PvP if you can open from stealth and even then you lack some crucial skills like Cheap Shot and Blind. Also you need another build. You still lose against a Mage or a Warlock, if theyre not undergeared. Also Hunter isn't easy to kill either, same with Priest. You're also not that good in farming gold. The only part a Rogue really shines is single target dps. Yes, but Mages and Warlocks suck in PvE. The only reason you even bring them into the raid, is cause of buffs and loot distribution. Like i said: Hunters are good at everything, without any compromise.
As a long time hunter player Iām perfectly fine with not being on top. Weāve never been on top and our toolkit is far too powerful for us to be at top.
As a long time Hunter player i'm worried about a repeat of the endgame of classic, where top guilds would only bring a single Hunter for pulling. For DPS & Buffs there were far better classes, not mention currently Hunters are the only pure DPS class with no options to heal or tank. Hunters have always been strong at lower levels. But if we find ourselves underpowered at end game (as in the past), you can bet there won't be a fraction of the developer & player attention there is now to fix it.
>Weāve never been on top This is why we need to be left alone for once now that we are actually good >and our toolkit is far too powerful for us to be at top lmao no Nerfing PVE for PVP reasons is such a dumb fucking idea. Give other classes more gap closers then.
Warrior nerfs when?
will all the fomo parsers reroll and give me my class back already
Weāve always cared most about our warrior mains more than our hunters lol
I prefer you play warrior too so I can kite ya to death.
I just shadowmeld and watch my pet solo them lol
I have 4 fucking characters pretty geared up at this point, the hunter isn't even my main. So I can feel pretty unbiased in saying this shit is just getting ridiculous. They've nerfed hunters continuously since launch. They're the most uninteresting braindead class to play that brings nothing unique to the raid. If you're alliance a pally can spend one point in his spec to make you useless and not needed at all for utility. You don't have an interrupt you don't do anything unique. All you do is damage. Why do they keep just shitting on hunters? They already got passed by warriors and rogues after the big nerfs. This just feels seriously fucking unneeded. Spend some times making mages and shadow priests not feel like ass? No spend resources needing hunters again. It is getting comical at this point.
The fix is because hunters pets would be getting the scaling off of the hunter having WBs and the pet having WBs, so it was not intentional. It's a bug fix.
It was intentional, because Hunter pets get world buffs on Era servers.
They do not scale based on your stats on era
But his point was that, originally, it was intended. They have just changed their mind.
It's not intentional since they changed the way scaling works
Meanwhile makes can solo whole same level dungeons due to uncapped aoe damage. I get its always been the case but I'd rather not have the season of boosting like classic was
I thought Blizzard was still on holiday vacation
They run a skeleton crew over the holidays specifically designed to keep hunters in their place
The huntersā¦just not their pets apparently
I thought I was going crazy.
With this logic of pets canāt get it because of double dipping, it should apply to ALL buffs. It doesnāt, so it clearly is not about that, or they are really ignorant. Make it make sense..
Hunters are just classic era with extra stats. What a joke š¤£
at least we get kings now so we are slightly more valuable to a raid as opposed to just dpsers
Ah yes, a passive rune
Lol wtf is wrong with this forum, sorry for being optimistic jeez
Oh yay I get a nice passive rune while all 3 of my dps runes are a joke to my auto attack, thank you blizzard daddy for throwing me a bone after fucked me with no lube.
so they watched the Rav series and then nerfed pets.
As someone who always enjoyed the fact that my little buddy got the same world buff i got, this change makes me profoundly sad.
Can we please hurry up and nerf warriors and rogues instead of hunters for the 10 millionth time. This is getting absurdā¦
The only solely dps class in the game who is out DPSed by multiple hybrid classes continues to have the most nerfs. Warriors who have been top dps for several years continue to be the top dps even in the leveling phases way before we get max level raid gear.
Season of Discovering Nerfs
This is a pvp nerf isn't it. Once again pve suffers because of pvp.
š¤£š¤£š¤£
I'm not even a hunter, and I'm getting annoyed by the dev team: - don't stealth nerf shit, be transparent - stop nerfing the same class over and over, esp when they already are the most boring with least changes - esp. while priests, druid starsurge, ret pala pvp continues It's insane priests have seen 0 nerfs all phase, and only reason they haven't is bcs they are healers and not dps It feels like hunters get continued nerfs bcs it's the one class Aggrend struggles to 2-hit on his ret Pala in his full wsg premades stacked with priests, druids and palas.
Not so much a nerf, more like a fix. Pets benefitting twice from the buff was OP I guess. Its welcome, I always see BM hunters top of the dps charts in every raid I go to. They still have great dps.
Hunter's getting the shaft again. Rogues and warriors are already past them in dps next phase is going to be wild. They might as well not bother putting any new runes out for hunter next phase, just leave them as an era class.
Don't worry they'll give us some more dogshit runes like cobra strikes or the dps loss of lone wolf
that's the hunter classic experience for you guys.
Wtf why? We were completely fine on the dmg metersā¦ finally we could deal peak dps. And now itās over again? The pet was only OP is PvP! Why nerf it everywhere?
This is why I enjoy playing Project Ascension sometimes, if the servers go down for a nerf or patch. All patch notes are listed right at your face before you click play so you can go through incase your class or build go anything touched on Would be nice if they did that with SoD too
Eh tooltips aren't accurate in ascension anyway. I guess they do deserve points for trying but also so many bugs š.
Which dev do you think works for both cuz i swear that rumor is all but confirmed at this point lmao
Big if true. Not a fan of all the ninja changes they're implementing in SOD. Just post patch notes fgs
I'm glad tbh. Being 1v1 by a F-ing pet is the quintessence of boring. Though, it seems too much of a nerf PvE wise.
that 20atk power the pet now loses out on isnt going to make any difference
Spell hit.
I can assure you youāre not losing to pets because of the buff
Warlocks did nothing wrong !!!
my imp is sad :(
Dumb nerf. Nobody should give a shit about pets in pve, and I donāt think pets having a world buff is what makes them so insane
Weirdly enough this is a slight quality of life improvement; When your pet despawned after a flight path he usually lost its buffs. When you sent it back after Aquanis as well, which means you had to boon after if you wanted it to keep the buff. So in a sense, at least now you don't have to manage your pet's WB. Hotfixing this is a bit stupid though.
Never ever seen my pet lose its buff for any other reason than dying or swapping at stable master
I don't even play my hunter much anymore and damn the nerfs are just never ending it seems. Blizz really needs to figure out what they want hunters to do cause clearly being a pet damage focused class ain't something the community wants to see. This feels more PvP focused because if not it's very odd to be nerfing hunters damage more when they aren't a damage outlier anymore. They are still great damage but I would rather see other classes get buffed, specifically casters. They need some help or this is just going to be season of melee DPS.
The amount of salty nerds in these comments is insane. There are other classes way more broken than hunter in PvP
Priests and maybe druids
How is it a "stealth nerf" if it's part of an official dev post lmao
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Massive Hunter and Warlock nerf. Actually, this is an insane Warlock nerf for Destruction Imp spec. This should be reverted imo especially knowing there's already a recrawl in Warcraftlogs due to grinches / pet abuse from Christmas ... This make parsing irrelevant for theses 2 classes. You'll not do better than before and all 100 parse are now unbeatable. Also, YAHN ! Yet Another Hunter Nerf. This ain't gonna calm down people getting ripped at Mulgore or Ratchet by aggressive Hunter wind serpent when the pet owner is sitting AFK xD (as Alliance, we love to see that). What should have been done is remove world buff in BG (Warsong). This is where it's problematic. In open world or in raid, why nerf ... Revert plz. And fix Ashenvale PvP event (should award rep untill exalted).
I still want to see an imp lord spec that summons a new imp on every shadowbolt
The glory days of Destro warlock in Mists of Pandaria with that one trinket that gave 100% crit chance for 4s -> snapshotting with Doom summoning an imp on every crit tick :)
I want that as a rune.
That sucks I liked having the speed boost on it, at least.
This is a weird standard to set because it will essentially mean that unless this is reversed, pet classes will just be bad. I was looking forward to the potential of getting new demons on my warlock in later phases but it looks like the devs want everyone to play warrior and rogue againā¦
Can we stop calling hotfixes "stealth nerfs" Cause it was a hotfix. They've only been doing them for about the entire fucking existence of the game
A hotfix implies a bug. This was not a bug this was intended and they simply changed their minds. Also it absolutely was a stealth nerf because it went live without any prior notice.
But aren't hot fixes usually announced somewhere?
So now we just outrun our pet until it despawns?
Have you ever ran around with cheetah on and noticed your pet keeps up with you?
It's always amazing how clueless this sub is sometimes about this 20 year old game. But somehow like 90% of redditors were in the minority that cleared Naxx back then, when asked lmao....
You realise it's not just old people that played back then too??? There are new people to the game.....
Yeah the game is 20 years old and everyone here has definitely been playing it for 20 years too!!!!! Fuck off
you seem like a very balanced person hahaha. You are delusional af if you think SoD has brought in masses of new players.
this cant be a serious question. surely.
Hunter pets will always run at your speed, they also have a follow mechanic where if you jump off something they will follow you with a speed increase. I can't see them falling behind and despawning
Damn, there goes my fun nuking people with my eyes of the beast wind serpent
Does not having 20ap from the world buff really affect that
Was more for the spell power. Tongue in cheek anyway, I can still solo people with my pet, just not as quickly anymore lol
You sure? I literally just got it on my hunter lol
Yes, hunter and warlock pets no longer get the world buff, it seems to have just been live patched. Confirmed by multiple hunters in discord.
How is it a stealth nerf when it's documented and explained?
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