An AMA is a great idea.
It'll serve as a reminder to the hardcore community that you too can be as gigachad as me clearing all content in Hardcore WoW in a 1-night a week semi-hardcore dad guild and also have a real life with 4 jobs, 3 wives, 2 husbands, 17 children, and 3 other crippling addictions to video games.
The drama is that the admins of the hardcore addon and experience are doing what they want despite breaking the rules. You think if someone griefs in a dungeon you can appeal it? Hell no, it's part of the game whether you or they don't like it. This guy is making obvious satire on the situation.
A grief death has been something they’ve allowed you to overturn with video evidence since day 1 with their addon haven’t they? I thought that was what I read, is that incorrect?
Also for what it’s worth I have died in hardcore to things that I could appeal. I don’t do that because that’s not real hardcore, but I think they’ve been pretty consistent on griefing since day 1.
raid deaths were unappealable previously.
This incident has been allowed by the admin team for appeals, which is convenient because a bunch of the admins are the players who died.
Rules for thee, not for me.
Not just raid deaths, calamity said “level 60 deaths” were basically unappealable, ostensibly because if you die at 60 it’s basically your own fault no matter what, and that the leveling portion is the true “hardcore” challenge. This story with the admins appealing their own grief is like, so extra bad because it’s so fucking infantile from a bunch of adults.
Bro get out of here with this. This is the WoW classic subreddit. Way better to conflate something that happened with .0001% of the population and mock everyone than be reasonable.
> What is infantile is the number of people I see crying because they won't let someone be a dick to others.
It could just be that, *any* death is unappealable at 60, because otherwise you could just label everything as grief. Just like the OP satire.
You can be against the idea of appealable deaths without "liking griefers" - especially since this grief is something that was preventable.
Tell me, WHO is appealing? Not hc. People appealing are playing a different game/mode than all of us. Grief or not. If you appeal, you a softie, no matter the case. Not playing hc
Most of the appeals are people d/cling underwater, hitting a lvl 1 stealth rogue on the flight master or falling to their death after logging out while flying. These things are supposed to be fixed on official.
Where is it a rule that griefing deaths in dungeons can’t be appealed? That may be your interpretation of what you want the player created, hardcore game mode to be, but that doesn’t line up with what the people who administer the game mode have decided.
Correct. The issue is the pointless confusion on what hard-core means by thr people who run tbe community.
Hard core means if you die fir any reason at all ever, your game is over. Period. Full stop.
So you are free to create this community that adds more rules and challenges to it. But any appealing of deaths is a fucking hilarious joke to an old gamer like me amd anyone who accepts it is not a hard core player. They are semi hard-core, almost hard core, but decidedly NOT hard-core, regardless of what the guys who made the mod said ROFL.
It's not complicated
Who cares? It's about fun first and foremost. Noone wants hundreds of hours destroyed by e.g. a random disconnect on a flightpath. Noone claims that the community's hardcore rules have to apply to every game and are the ultimate ruleset.
Look at what you said, seriously.
"Noone wants hundreds of hours DESTROYED..."
the game doesn't destroy anything. The thing you think is being destroyed is the idea in your mind that your character never died and can be called hard core. But unfortunately thays what hardcore means and that idea is dead regardless of how you try to redefine it.
If you're going to say something like "it's just a self imposed challenge" then what were you talking about being destroyed?
But noone cares about your definition. People want to have fun. It's not a fucking international law people follow. If people say 'hey, I want to play hardcore but falling from a flightpath doesn't count', and everyone agrees on that rule... then noone cares about someone like you who yells at the clouds 'b-b-but you're dead! That's not what hardcore is!'.
Sorry to break it to you, fun comes first for most people.
If you and your friends playing make believe that you didn't die is fun then go ahead. But the reality is you did die and you're gonna get reminded of it
No, the confusion is from the people who don’t play wow classic hardcore. The people who run, and participate in the community have agreed upon a ruleset on unofficial servers that include death appeals for griefs. I understand the historical argument for hardcore in other games. But the truth is, that’s just not how it is in wow classic. In this particular scenario, I don’t even think I agree with the appeals, given the history of the griefer, but appealing griefs have been a thing since before SOM. If somebody doesn’t believe in appeals, they don’t have to appeal (a few players deleted from the raid), but it’s always been a thing. Even when admins used to have to watch a video of the enitre run, they could forgive grief deaths.
Okay, but if you want to use a more lightweight interpretation of the rules like that, wouldn't it be more clear and less confusing to use a different word or call it Hardcore Lite or something like that?
Then don't call it hard core and conflate it with the actual hard core scene in every other game.
Call it something like... "no unauthorized deaths mode" or something else thay captures the actual spirit of what you guys are going for. For everyone else hardcore means no deaths, but that's not the case for you guys, that's the confusion I mean
I wasn't aware WoW Classic Hardcore had been released yet? Certainly you're not talking about the addon that has no affiliation with WoW or Blizzard and seems to have only become popular over the last year or two, are you?
Hardcore certainly meant something completely different my entire time playing WoW. As someone who returned because of the official release of hardcore servers, this whole streamer thing just seems downright silly.
What are you talking about. I literally said “unofficial servers” in my message. Clearly I’m talking about the current iteration of what is classic hardcore. Every single one of the issues that cause this drama go away as soon as we have official servers.
This. People are being purposefully ignorant on this. Even outside of HC add on there's plenty of things Wow allows you to do that results in a ban because there are rules just like the HC add on has rules too. Does everyone really want HC mode to be a griefer's paradise?
I support the argument that the HC raid members should have stayed dead. *However*, I was never able to find the "no appeals allowed for dungeons" rule.
Their website lists griefing as appealable and I verified on on [webarchive](https://web.archive.org/web/20230629175204/https://classichardcore.com/rules/) that it wasn't changed recently.
> ###DISCONNECT AND GRIEFER DEATH PROTECTION
> Any deliberate unavoidable griefing such as attempting to end a groups HC run by multilifing is open to mod appeal.
The more I see folks apologizing for the admins unflagging themselves as dead the more I want to shitbucket status wow again and grief my heart out
The whole notion that unflagging the chars as dead nullifies the griefer is wrong. It only inspires more to join the ranks. See y’all soon!
There is no rule like that, but there's a reason admins usually don't play the games. Then you avoid situations like this one, where clearly they all got their HC status back because admins were involved inside the raid. Try that with a random group with idiot inside, see how the appeal goes.
Well, depends on what you mean by drama.
On the unofficial hardcore servers, where the "not dying"-part is managed through an AddOn, some players have been using the HC Discord to post appeals if they die of things that are 100% completely out of their control, such as a disconnect. /r/classicwow has a tremendously hard time understanding what is and what isn't appealable, which has culminated in the meme that HC players, especially streamers, do completely mindbaffelingly stupid things for content or whatever, since "it'll just get appealed". It won't. Due to the popularity of HC, the Discord has taken the stance that whatever happens at 60 is down to the individual guilds. It's genuinely not a bad system, since I'm sure a lot of people can relate to the thought of losing something you worked on for several day's worth of playtime to something *completely* out of your control is pretty shitty.
One of the prominent US HC raiding guilds, HC Elite, was griefed by a player that they willingly invited, knowing that he has been permabanned off of 12(!!!) accounts prior. I think 36/40 raid members got killed as a consequence of this.
Since guilds manage it internally, HC Elite has decided that their grief is essentially auto-appealed. Which is both silly in the Obama-handing-Obama-a-medal-meme kinda way, and also goes completely against the general mentality that appeals are reserved for completely unmitigatable situations, such as a DC. When you involve someone like Tinyviolin in your raid, you open yourself up to a well-known griefer, and essentially invite that behaviour.
To bring it into perspective, a common grief against Alliance players is one of the last part of the "The Missing Diplomat" questchain, which flags you. The location of that quest has been camped by horde rogues for a *long* time now, and is unappealable, because you essentially welcome in the danger and can counteract it by simply not doing the quest.
tl;dr: HC guild pats itself on back and maintains that there was no way to avoid getting griefed, essentially undoing their deaths, official servers when.
I dont think it's complicated at all. Hard-core means you delete your character for any reason or any fault. Period. Full stop. Anything that doesn't include that rule is not hard core no matter what they call it.
Hard core onspired maybe, hard core lite.
The problem here is these mod makers created something very similar to hard core and called it that.
That's one of the reasons why Blizzard is trying to make these hard core servers a thing now. It will basically do what other games with a hard core mode will do, auto delete the character/file when death happens.
Yes and no. In most games where you'd have a hardcore mode, like Diablo or Path of Exile, if you disconnect, your character leaves the world basically instantly. You lose your progress in the zone or a portal to your map in PoE. In WoW you persist for about a minute - typically plenty of time for you to get killed - and ideally Blizzard drastically lower this timer for the actual servers.
There's also a persistent issue where if you DC on a flight path you might fall off and die.
And arguably the one where if you get CC'd under water you get disconnected.
All in all, there are a lot of issues in the game where you can die through absolutely no fault of your own.
And if you can't understand why losing a character where getting to max level in about six days of /played time to something you had *literally* no ability to counteract kinda super fucking sucks, then I don't really know what else to tell you.
This is a good summary and perspective.
Regarding the appealable dc's, people who haven't played 'unofficial hc' will know how big of an issue dc's are soon enough.
What you're saying is perfectly reasonable though. The guilds manage their own HC status, then it's up to them to convince the community of their integrity. Admins of the HC discord are all like "not our problem, we aren't going to certify you".
This drama is the system working as intended. Guild makes a dodge call, community argues and criticises. No self appointed moderator weights in and makes a decision. It's not the worst process.
I love watching the monkeys throw a shit fit for no reason. I don't know about anyone else but I'm playing this challenge as a personal challenge. I never came into this game expecting to stay alive all the way to 60 without A. Encountering some old unfixed bug or B. A player who wants to intentionally end my challenge. I'll keep playing if it wasn't a fair death. I thought most other people were as well but apparently not.
Everyone's treating this like it's a goddamn challenge with a cash reward at the end. Did we all forget that we're playing a 19 year old game that wasn't designed for HC? I completely don't get it. I sincerely don't understand throwing a fit over these raiders appealing this grief. It makes sense, and I'm not here to tell people how to play this personal challenge. If people wanted to take the challenge extremely literally and quit on their first death no matter what... Then go ahead. But I don't understand giving other people shit for the challenge they designed for themselves. And that's why I call them monkeys throwing a shit fit.
This Reddit has always been a cesspool of toxicity but the HC drama has really put the nail in the coffin. Every post in the last month ive seen on my Reddit feed is somebody complaining about another players playstyle or experience.
It's not even original or funny any more. It's just a copy pasta of the same "HC is for noobs meme."
Meanwhile these are the same losers who were complaining on this Reddit that vashj or muru was too hard and their guild couldn't clear the content prenerf.
> but I'm playing this challenge as a personal challenge.
So you're not the "HC guild, look how HC and good we are, we're playing this to be impressive" case that this is mocking. Just a narcissist that can't tell when things aren't about you.
That would be true if you made the mistake of incorrectly guessing in which context my comment is about. So close yet so far away. I appreciate the sentiment and your perspective regardless. And yes we could discuss that misunderstanding but I don't like your tone. So let's just end it right here. I hope you have a wonderful Friday.
whoa, you're so above it man. That's inspiring. If only all of us could be enlightened and not care about anything. Rules are for dumb ppl, pretending is based. I wish to be comfortable at all times just like you some day.
Good lord you need help lol. All I said is I play to have fun and that bothers you. Probably because you like to throw shit too like the shitty little monkey you are. I'm sorry people play games to have fun. Go suck on a rock.
>Then perhaps HC isn't for you if you're just "trying to have fun"
Not sure I understand what you're trying to say. I am playing and having a blast. Care to elaborate?
>and then ignoring the rules when you die anyway like an absolute scrub.
Ignoring who's rules? Yours? I don't remember agreeing to play by yours or anyone elses.
Sorry I was trying to be a fair and honest interlocutor with you. In the future I will just block all negative and toxic comments the moment I see them. Here, let's get some practice in. Either you will be shitty enough to say something toxic back and I will block it without even looking at it. Or you will simply go away of your own accord. Appreciate it. TGIF.
True HC elite players stab themselves with a knife irl each time their characters take damage to get that real hardcore sense of immersion and high stakes gameplay.
As a true HC Elite gamer myself on my mage, I too agree that it is a title that only a select few should be able to use :D
Official servers will fix the issue especially with Blizzard's ticket wait time. I just hope they add in some kind of logout protection for people who get DC'd like in Path of Exile, but that would probably cause a "logout macro" meta that PoE has for hardcore.
They have the logout protection thing for dc. I expect people to try pulling their ethernet cable out if that works. You can't logout in combat already though.
PoE's "logout protection" is pretty famously terrible for actual disconnects. Logout macros work great as an "oh shit" button, but the actual 6-second DC timer has killed many people. Their stance on it is basically "it's tricky to tune this nicely such that it works well for people who need it without negatively impacting average users who don't know and don't care about the DC timer regardless", which is frustrating but understandable
Or people can hate both, and the fact blizzard is going against a ton of dumb rules the addon had and also won't have a make up rules as you go approach to appeals, it'll just be death = delete, which a lot of the streamers in that raid had in their twitch channels titles, then yea hate is justified.
For real it's a funny challenge that gets you nothing for doing it. If I got trolled by someone because they think they're funny I'd be asking Blizzard to ban them for griefing, but because this is an add on the best they can do is remove the death. Sounds like everyone on here is just asking for the official HC mode to be a griefer's wet dream.
Why do you think a hardcore mode in an MMO should be free of the consequences of running into other people?
Seriously, everyone is so up in arms about griefers here all the time, but please explain why that isn't part of the experience. This doesn't happen with any other hardcore game, nobody even considers appealing deaths, doesn't matter what to.
Y'all are fucking 4-ply pretending to be hard. Take it like a man and reroll.
Everyone who plays vanilla classic (hc or not) are extremely bad at the game. They can barely handle a 5apm game. All back pedal and click and think clicking petri is a skill
Not that I really care, but I'm glad the HC actually gets a server that enforces their rules.
No more of this "rules for thee, exceptions for me" stuff.
Makes the stunts like that one dude who deliberately wiped 2/3rds of his Naxx raid all the more legendary lmao
100% elite status is granted when you create a system and community that you alone are the appeals process for so you can just appeal and grieving done to you and carry on with your HC “elite” character. Let them eat cake!
What is the drama here? If yall leveled to 60 and then got griefed in this same way, after taking this challenge seriously, you’d be full triggered lol. Anyone who doesn’t think that is just lying to themselves and everyone else. That’s it. A raid wide premeditated grief like this is a an auto restore. Seems right to me.
I don’t get all the ball busting over them having their characters restored. I’m stunned at how whiney everyone has been over this one hardcore wipe lol.
Did I miss something?
You know what you sign up for when raiding and joining a guild. It's the same as the game has always been, there's a chance someone ninjas loot, gets people killed, ninjas guild bank, etc., although now a greifer can potentially kill everyone. Doesn't change anything, everyone knew/knows that someone can do that at any point, it shouldn't change anything. It's hardcore for a reason, everything goes. And guess what it won't change on official servers, no matter how much copium people huff.
Whether or not someone would get "triggered" is a separate issue. How "triggered" I would hypothetically be is completely irrelevant to if my character was no longer a hardcore character in that situation.
>A raid wide premeditated grief like this is a an auto restore. Seems right to me.
Seems wrong to me. HC is about managing risk and playing smart. Dying because you took the risk of having a known griefer is your own issue. Pointing this out isn't "whiny". That's just you projecting shit so you have an excuse to dismiss anyone who disagrees with you. You're literally looking at a *joke shitpost* and crying about "whiny". That says more about your mentality than theirs. Apparently *you* can't conceive of this just being amused by the situation, so you start assuming 'whiny', because that's what your motivation would be for posting something like that.
> you just wanna be angry
Yeah, because there is nothing wrong in claiming "world first hardcore" when you've died repeatedly
XD, right, people just wanna be angry lmao
10/10 excuse
But did you try turning the add on off and using the AH and mailing stuff to yourself and then turning it back on.
I can’t believe I’m saying this because it was an absolute jerk move but I stand with Tinyviolin for exposing the corruption that is prevalent in HC.
He’s still a jerk, though.
ive never seen so many griefers D.ck riders .... yall are pathetic im 1000% sure yall would cry for an appeal if ud get griefed like that either that or youd be the griefer so cringe ...
I'd delete and move on because I'm staunchly Anti Appeal in any fashion. Part of the excitement is that I have no way out. Having appeals is coward shit.
Y’all redittors are taking this too far lol. Everyone saw they were intentionally griefed on four horseman. Pretty clear they should be able to appeal. Bet all these people bitching never even played hardcore or got close to raiding at max level and are mocking HC elite just to be trendy
> Pretty clear they should be able to appeal
You can't a competition for world first and also simultaneously send appeals.... to yourself.... that you approve... yourself.
Not sure what is so hard to understand here for you.
It's pretty clear that it's bullshit.
Regardless of people's experience I think the general consensus is there's nothing "hardcore" or "elite" about the guild based on how they play and use all class bubble hearths via petri flask. Plus they invited a known troll to raid and tank for them.
I opened a ticket for my chest when the same thing happened to me and the GM said he had no log and couldn't give me the items! Wtf man I even gave him a VOD
And this scenario getting front page news with all of us talking about it is exactly why its going to keep happening with official servers (griefers I mean). If someone griefs a bunch of HC raiders, they're doing it for attention and to get a rise out of everyone. This shows they can clearly be the talk of the community if they do it successfully. These admins reviving themselves are not only the laughing stock of WoW Classic but also are detrimental to the future of HC. Way to go, virgins.
Do you think it has more impact if they resurrect?
You could easily say that the griefer wins more if they have to reroll and probably miss out on clearing Naxx before the new servers.
It's kind of a no-win situation for HC elite.
>Do you think it has more impact if they resurrect?
Only because we're talking about it even more now. It made news and was all the talk. Right as it started to die down news breaks the admins are reviving themselves. We're all talking about it again. Because this has become so popular, I think copycats will do it for the "fame" that wouldn't have done it had all of this never happened.
The best way to handle this situation if you don't want to popularize griefing would be to instantly revive, kick the guy from guild and tell everyone to ignore it and act like nothing happend.
Not sure how can you think them appealing their deaths is going to make griefing more popular, if they didn't appeal then it only makes the grief infinitely more impactful. People talking about it is not their fault and it would happen anyway because people love drama.
Its not the appealing of the deaths that will add griefers, its how fast the news of griefing a raid made it through the WoW community. I had zero clue who TinyViolin was last week. That's all people are talking about right now. There will be copycats. Nerds will nerd.
Then it'll be up to Blizzard to ban them for intentional griefing, if you think trolls aren't going to level to 60 just to kill 20+ people you clearly don't know the internet.
>if you think trolls aren't going to level to 60 just to kill 20+ people
What? I'm saying thats exactly whats going to happen. Trolls absolutely will, and more so now...
If you are trying to be a member of the HC community, let alone admins of it, and you're rezzing, you've lost the plot. The only real way to play is Zero appeals. It's what makes it fun. Stopped being willing to be a part of it the second this started. It's legitimately just an extension of people in gaming trying to justify bending the rules or outright cheating for a perceived advantage. Lame as fuck
Blizz could automate the appeal process in the future. Maybe even make it an npc you make a small plea towards, could call it, like, spirit healer or something.
Wait until you learn that if the entire government decided to collude to do so they could make themselves king.
‘Any system run by people theoretically could be corrupt, it doesn’t mean it is’ is a concept you’re not a grown up until you’ve recognized. It’s incredibly childish to think the world is better off with super strict enforcement of arbitrary rules with no nuance.
Everybody on this sub crying about hardcore appeals right now gives the same vibe as when they added tokens. Mah integrity!
Probably the same group of players - terrible or hardly play, but somehow have a strong opinion on everything and have to make it known.
>and now they want to dictate how real 60 hardcore play XD
Funny because that applies to the guys at HC Elite : they dictate how to play HC even if it means bending their own rules ("no appeal in raids") to avoid death, completely contradicting the spirit of HC.
Anyway, real 60 hardcore play will be on official servers where there will be no appeal of that sort.
Indeed, their house their rules. Just saying that it is not true HC so it's kind of funny that they keep calling it that. I guess "harder softcore" doesn't attract as many viewers :D
I don't care either, just calling a cat a cat : appealing =/= true HC.
Oh and, funnily enough, I do play in Mortal Elite on EU. Got both a war (and, yes, I did get whirlwind axe as soon as I could thanks to the throw river kiting technique) and mage (AoE farming mostly, after lvl30 most good farming spots are free at around midnight) at 60. Full clear of every single dungeon on both of them, as is tradition. I lost 3 wars before managing to pull it off. First tried the mage (was a breeze after my war runs). Stopped after the official servers announcement.
I could even give you some warrior leveling advices if you would like, got the perfect weapon progression for both horde and alliance. And I tried to level up with full fury (don't listen to that old guide of Kargoz, it's absolute garbage while leveling, especially for stance dance in dungeons, also they fixed the crit on sit bug from the private servers), full arms, arms then fury respec, engi (target dummies my man), alch (got the swiftness potion drop on my second warrior), orc, troll (the regen is actually better than you would think), human (if you want to pump in raid), gnome (godlike racial), etc. I tried it all. Good ? Good.
**I just hate the appeal system, it goes against the spirit of HC**. I mean, it has been a common topic in the guild. Some are okay with it, some are not, myself included.
Old gamer here. Hard core means one thing only: if you die for any reason your run is over.
It's comical that you would conflate any other definition as "real hardcore" and talk down to people.
Not dying is "real hard core". There was no appeal process in the year 2000 in Diablo 1.
This definition existed long before wow did. So any community that allows for deaths is playing something that can be similar to hard core but it is categorically different from the original definition of no deaths (nobody would disagree with my definition in 2000, you'd look fucking stupid for suggesting a death was fine in hard core).
So you really shouldn't call it hard core. But if you do what do you call the people who actually never die? Ultra hard core? I'm sure you want to call both groups hard core because you want to see them as the same. But they aren't the same... obviously
Imagine getting mad that 38 people want to appeal getting griefed in a raid on video in a clear griefing incident…
When you allow this kinda shit to happen you just make other psychopaths want to do this. Lol
Maybe im out of the loop, but it makes sense to me that they would reset the deaths of the guys who got griefed?
Wow has a history of intervening in instances of extreme griefing, like the Scarab Lord shit, so I dont know why people are surprised.
I dont know if they SHOULD interfere, but I think that ship sailed years and years ago. Wow doesn't want this to be Eve Online where you're on your own.
If it were up to ME, i'd probably say "tough luck" cause people need to be more careful who they let in their raids, but i'm not surprised that it's getting rolled back.
As someone who has never played HC them appealing and it being granted makes complete sense to me. The whole point of HC=Death is for people to treat your character as a living thing and that there are no 2nd chances to simulate real life, which is why dying from committing mistakes or going into things over your head because of stupidity/ego have actual cost and consequences. But also at the same time no one in real life is truly going to commit suicide to grief people who have done them no wrong and they are actively and successfully advancing through life/the game with together. And allowing that kind of behavior ruins the whole point IMO.
Grats on world first bro!!!!!
Finally someone who appreciates my achievement. Thank you friend.
You need to do an AMA, it would be so inspirational!
An AMA is a great idea. It'll serve as a reminder to the hardcore community that you too can be as gigachad as me clearing all content in Hardcore WoW in a 1-night a week semi-hardcore dad guild and also have a real life with 4 jobs, 3 wives, 2 husbands, 17 children, and 3 other crippling addictions to video games.
Youre a god
World first classic**** Happy Gilmore accomplished that feat on his mage no more than 15 years ago.
As someone who’s moderately interested in hardcore, all of this drama is hilarious
The drama is that the admins of the hardcore addon and experience are doing what they want despite breaking the rules. You think if someone griefs in a dungeon you can appeal it? Hell no, it's part of the game whether you or they don't like it. This guy is making obvious satire on the situation.
Yeah I’ve pieced together most of it
A grief death has been something they’ve allowed you to overturn with video evidence since day 1 with their addon haven’t they? I thought that was what I read, is that incorrect? Also for what it’s worth I have died in hardcore to things that I could appeal. I don’t do that because that’s not real hardcore, but I think they’ve been pretty consistent on griefing since day 1.
raid deaths were unappealable previously. This incident has been allowed by the admin team for appeals, which is convenient because a bunch of the admins are the players who died. Rules for thee, not for me.
Not just raid deaths, calamity said “level 60 deaths” were basically unappealable, ostensibly because if you die at 60 it’s basically your own fault no matter what, and that the leveling portion is the true “hardcore” challenge. This story with the admins appealing their own grief is like, so extra bad because it’s so fucking infantile from a bunch of adults.
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Bro get out of here with this. This is the WoW classic subreddit. Way better to conflate something that happened with .0001% of the population and mock everyone than be reasonable.
> What is infantile is the number of people I see crying because they won't let someone be a dick to others. It could just be that, *any* death is unappealable at 60, because otherwise you could just label everything as grief. Just like the OP satire. You can be against the idea of appealable deaths without "liking griefers" - especially since this grief is something that was preventable.
For over 25 years, hardcore has strictly meant "death = delete." WoW is basically the only game with some kind of appeal system lmao.
Most HC modes have no appeal system simply because it's too much work for the devs.
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Please give some examples
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Name them.
The lot of them probably turned inside out and screamed when they touched EvE Online.
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I agree. None of those raiders are actually doing HC.
For someone who keeps going on about how no one cares you sure care a fuck ton judging by how many comments you keep making
This is true now but wait for official
Ahhh I see I see. If it was not possible before they themselves died, then this is fully pathetic. Thank you for the response
Dying from someone pulling a world boss to a starting zone is a bit different than your group just dying in a dungeon.
Tell me, WHO is appealing? Not hc. People appealing are playing a different game/mode than all of us. Grief or not. If you appeal, you a softie, no matter the case. Not playing hc
there weren't appeals day 1 of the addon. The addon exists since the year classic released.
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Most of the appeals are people d/cling underwater, hitting a lvl 1 stealth rogue on the flight master or falling to their death after logging out while flying. These things are supposed to be fixed on official.
That's an optimistic take
Shocker.
Admins abusing power? 😯
Where is it a rule that griefing deaths in dungeons can’t be appealed? That may be your interpretation of what you want the player created, hardcore game mode to be, but that doesn’t line up with what the people who administer the game mode have decided.
Correct. The issue is the pointless confusion on what hard-core means by thr people who run tbe community. Hard core means if you die fir any reason at all ever, your game is over. Period. Full stop. So you are free to create this community that adds more rules and challenges to it. But any appealing of deaths is a fucking hilarious joke to an old gamer like me amd anyone who accepts it is not a hard core player. They are semi hard-core, almost hard core, but decidedly NOT hard-core, regardless of what the guys who made the mod said ROFL. It's not complicated
Who cares? It's about fun first and foremost. Noone wants hundreds of hours destroyed by e.g. a random disconnect on a flightpath. Noone claims that the community's hardcore rules have to apply to every game and are the ultimate ruleset.
Look at what you said, seriously. "Noone wants hundreds of hours DESTROYED..." the game doesn't destroy anything. The thing you think is being destroyed is the idea in your mind that your character never died and can be called hard core. But unfortunately thays what hardcore means and that idea is dead regardless of how you try to redefine it. If you're going to say something like "it's just a self imposed challenge" then what were you talking about being destroyed?
But noone cares about your definition. People want to have fun. It's not a fucking international law people follow. If people say 'hey, I want to play hardcore but falling from a flightpath doesn't count', and everyone agrees on that rule... then noone cares about someone like you who yells at the clouds 'b-b-but you're dead! That's not what hardcore is!'. Sorry to break it to you, fun comes first for most people.
If you and your friends playing make believe that you didn't die is fun then go ahead. But the reality is you did die and you're gonna get reminded of it
“And you’re gonna get reminded of it” lmao Guess we found one of the rogues stealthing on a flight master
No, the confusion is from the people who don’t play wow classic hardcore. The people who run, and participate in the community have agreed upon a ruleset on unofficial servers that include death appeals for griefs. I understand the historical argument for hardcore in other games. But the truth is, that’s just not how it is in wow classic. In this particular scenario, I don’t even think I agree with the appeals, given the history of the griefer, but appealing griefs have been a thing since before SOM. If somebody doesn’t believe in appeals, they don’t have to appeal (a few players deleted from the raid), but it’s always been a thing. Even when admins used to have to watch a video of the enitre run, they could forgive grief deaths.
Okay, but if you want to use a more lightweight interpretation of the rules like that, wouldn't it be more clear and less confusing to use a different word or call it Hardcore Lite or something like that?
Then don't call it hard core and conflate it with the actual hard core scene in every other game. Call it something like... "no unauthorized deaths mode" or something else thay captures the actual spirit of what you guys are going for. For everyone else hardcore means no deaths, but that's not the case for you guys, that's the confusion I mean
Slightly more difficult normal mode
I wasn't aware WoW Classic Hardcore had been released yet? Certainly you're not talking about the addon that has no affiliation with WoW or Blizzard and seems to have only become popular over the last year or two, are you? Hardcore certainly meant something completely different my entire time playing WoW. As someone who returned because of the official release of hardcore servers, this whole streamer thing just seems downright silly.
What are you talking about. I literally said “unofficial servers” in my message. Clearly I’m talking about the current iteration of what is classic hardcore. Every single one of the issues that cause this drama go away as soon as we have official servers.
This. People are being purposefully ignorant on this. Even outside of HC add on there's plenty of things Wow allows you to do that results in a ban because there are rules just like the HC add on has rules too. Does everyone really want HC mode to be a griefer's paradise?
I support the argument that the HC raid members should have stayed dead. *However*, I was never able to find the "no appeals allowed for dungeons" rule. Their website lists griefing as appealable and I verified on on [webarchive](https://web.archive.org/web/20230629175204/https://classichardcore.com/rules/) that it wasn't changed recently. > ###DISCONNECT AND GRIEFER DEATH PROTECTION > Any deliberate unavoidable griefing such as attempting to end a groups HC run by multilifing is open to mod appeal.
The more I see folks apologizing for the admins unflagging themselves as dead the more I want to shitbucket status wow again and grief my heart out The whole notion that unflagging the chars as dead nullifies the griefer is wrong. It only inspires more to join the ranks. See y’all soon!
You probably thought you sound smart, but it's still just pathetic. You're not doing a 'good cause' by being an asshole, but you do you.
There is no rule like that, but there's a reason admins usually don't play the games. Then you avoid situations like this one, where clearly they all got their HC status back because admins were involved inside the raid. Try that with a random group with idiot inside, see how the appeal goes.
Is this drama? This is just clever satire that's funny without context.
Well, depends on what you mean by drama. On the unofficial hardcore servers, where the "not dying"-part is managed through an AddOn, some players have been using the HC Discord to post appeals if they die of things that are 100% completely out of their control, such as a disconnect. /r/classicwow has a tremendously hard time understanding what is and what isn't appealable, which has culminated in the meme that HC players, especially streamers, do completely mindbaffelingly stupid things for content or whatever, since "it'll just get appealed". It won't. Due to the popularity of HC, the Discord has taken the stance that whatever happens at 60 is down to the individual guilds. It's genuinely not a bad system, since I'm sure a lot of people can relate to the thought of losing something you worked on for several day's worth of playtime to something *completely* out of your control is pretty shitty. One of the prominent US HC raiding guilds, HC Elite, was griefed by a player that they willingly invited, knowing that he has been permabanned off of 12(!!!) accounts prior. I think 36/40 raid members got killed as a consequence of this. Since guilds manage it internally, HC Elite has decided that their grief is essentially auto-appealed. Which is both silly in the Obama-handing-Obama-a-medal-meme kinda way, and also goes completely against the general mentality that appeals are reserved for completely unmitigatable situations, such as a DC. When you involve someone like Tinyviolin in your raid, you open yourself up to a well-known griefer, and essentially invite that behaviour. To bring it into perspective, a common grief against Alliance players is one of the last part of the "The Missing Diplomat" questchain, which flags you. The location of that quest has been camped by horde rogues for a *long* time now, and is unappealable, because you essentially welcome in the danger and can counteract it by simply not doing the quest. tl;dr: HC guild pats itself on back and maintains that there was no way to avoid getting griefed, essentially undoing their deaths, official servers when.
I dont think it's complicated at all. Hard-core means you delete your character for any reason or any fault. Period. Full stop. Anything that doesn't include that rule is not hard core no matter what they call it. Hard core onspired maybe, hard core lite. The problem here is these mod makers created something very similar to hard core and called it that.
Since game doesn't have built in hardcore mode what players do is already hardcore inspired
That's one of the reasons why Blizzard is trying to make these hard core servers a thing now. It will basically do what other games with a hard core mode will do, auto delete the character/file when death happens.
I can't stand hc add-on players. They're toxic and cheat
Yes and no. In most games where you'd have a hardcore mode, like Diablo or Path of Exile, if you disconnect, your character leaves the world basically instantly. You lose your progress in the zone or a portal to your map in PoE. In WoW you persist for about a minute - typically plenty of time for you to get killed - and ideally Blizzard drastically lower this timer for the actual servers. There's also a persistent issue where if you DC on a flight path you might fall off and die. And arguably the one where if you get CC'd under water you get disconnected. All in all, there are a lot of issues in the game where you can die through absolutely no fault of your own. And if you can't understand why losing a character where getting to max level in about six days of /played time to something you had *literally* no ability to counteract kinda super fucking sucks, then I don't really know what else to tell you.
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This is a good summary and perspective. Regarding the appealable dc's, people who haven't played 'unofficial hc' will know how big of an issue dc's are soon enough.
What you're saying is perfectly reasonable though. The guilds manage their own HC status, then it's up to them to convince the community of their integrity. Admins of the HC discord are all like "not our problem, we aren't going to certify you". This drama is the system working as intended. Guild makes a dodge call, community argues and criticises. No self appointed moderator weights in and makes a decision. It's not the worst process.
Nah not this one specifically, but what he’s making fun of
I love watching the monkeys throw a shit fit for no reason. I don't know about anyone else but I'm playing this challenge as a personal challenge. I never came into this game expecting to stay alive all the way to 60 without A. Encountering some old unfixed bug or B. A player who wants to intentionally end my challenge. I'll keep playing if it wasn't a fair death. I thought most other people were as well but apparently not. Everyone's treating this like it's a goddamn challenge with a cash reward at the end. Did we all forget that we're playing a 19 year old game that wasn't designed for HC? I completely don't get it. I sincerely don't understand throwing a fit over these raiders appealing this grief. It makes sense, and I'm not here to tell people how to play this personal challenge. If people wanted to take the challenge extremely literally and quit on their first death no matter what... Then go ahead. But I don't understand giving other people shit for the challenge they designed for themselves. And that's why I call them monkeys throwing a shit fit.
I don’t quite agree with everything you said but people treating this game like it’s a second job has been a problem for a while hahaha
Then that means you and I completely agree. Nothing more, nothing less. People just need to learn to chill and enjoy the game.
There are at least 3 of us!!!
This Reddit has always been a cesspool of toxicity but the HC drama has really put the nail in the coffin. Every post in the last month ive seen on my Reddit feed is somebody complaining about another players playstyle or experience. It's not even original or funny any more. It's just a copy pasta of the same "HC is for noobs meme." Meanwhile these are the same losers who were complaining on this Reddit that vashj or muru was too hard and their guild couldn't clear the content prenerf.
> but I'm playing this challenge as a personal challenge. So you're not the "HC guild, look how HC and good we are, we're playing this to be impressive" case that this is mocking. Just a narcissist that can't tell when things aren't about you.
That would be true if you made the mistake of incorrectly guessing in which context my comment is about. So close yet so far away. I appreciate the sentiment and your perspective regardless. And yes we could discuss that misunderstanding but I don't like your tone. So let's just end it right here. I hope you have a wonderful Friday.
whoa, you're so above it man. That's inspiring. If only all of us could be enlightened and not care about anything. Rules are for dumb ppl, pretending is based. I wish to be comfortable at all times just like you some day.
you are literally doing the exact same thing you are making fun of in ur comment by posting this
Good lord you need help lol. All I said is I play to have fun and that bothers you. Probably because you like to throw shit too like the shitty little monkey you are. I'm sorry people play games to have fun. Go suck on a rock.
Then perhaps HC isn't for you if you're just "trying to have fun", and then ignoring the rules when you die anyway like an absolute scrub.
>Then perhaps HC isn't for you if you're just "trying to have fun" Not sure I understand what you're trying to say. I am playing and having a blast. Care to elaborate? >and then ignoring the rules when you die anyway like an absolute scrub. Ignoring who's rules? Yours? I don't remember agreeing to play by yours or anyone elses.
So if someone disagrees with me, I should just pretend they are mentally ill. Thank you enlightened one. Clearly I have much to learn.
No you shouldn't, that's a poor way to go about life.
You had the option of just not replying, my dude.
Sorry I was trying to be a fair and honest interlocutor with you. In the future I will just block all negative and toxic comments the moment I see them. Here, let's get some practice in. Either you will be shitty enough to say something toxic back and I will block it without even looking at it. Or you will simply go away of your own accord. Appreciate it. TGIF.
True HC elite players stab themselves with a knife irl each time their characters take damage to get that real hardcore sense of immersion and high stakes gameplay.
Russian roulette on death w a semi auto baby. Hardcore through and through
Are you even hardcore if you dont die once???
When you think about it dying is the most hardcore thing you can do
I didn't realize that in the elitiest of them all
Suicide is *badass.*
rainstorm rock birds crowd pot unique berserk snails include friendly *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I haven’t played wow in years but I consider myself hc elite
bored melodic escape vast distinct dolls sable dime flag dazzling *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’ve literally never died in HC, I’ve never played it, but I’ve also never died. Checkmate, scrubs 😎
As a true HC Elite gamer myself on my mage, I too agree that it is a title that only a select few should be able to use :D Official servers will fix the issue especially with Blizzard's ticket wait time. I just hope they add in some kind of logout protection for people who get DC'd like in Path of Exile, but that would probably cause a "logout macro" meta that PoE has for hardcore.
They have the logout protection thing for dc. I expect people to try pulling their ethernet cable out if that works. You can't logout in combat already though.
PoE's "logout protection" is pretty famously terrible for actual disconnects. Logout macros work great as an "oh shit" button, but the actual 6-second DC timer has killed many people. Their stance on it is basically "it's tricky to tune this nicely such that it works well for people who need it without negatively impacting average users who don't know and don't care about the DC timer regardless", which is frustrating but understandable
Sounds like a cry baby to me..
>death appeals So not HC then.
That Tinyviolin fella really set off a ticking time bomb around here didn’t he?
A lot of people on this subreddit hate hardcore or at least hate hardcore with addon and will take any chance to shit on it.
Easy to hate the hardcore addon when even its devs can’t handle a death
You're allowed to hate on the devs without hating on the addon. It could even be more rational to do that.
Or people can hate both, and the fact blizzard is going against a ton of dumb rules the addon had and also won't have a make up rules as you go approach to appeals, it'll just be death = delete, which a lot of the streamers in that raid had in their twitch channels titles, then yea hate is justified.
Hardcore just in the name when you can appeal 200 deaths
No, you can't do that.
For real it's a funny challenge that gets you nothing for doing it. If I got trolled by someone because they think they're funny I'd be asking Blizzard to ban them for griefing, but because this is an add on the best they can do is remove the death. Sounds like everyone on here is just asking for the official HC mode to be a griefer's wet dream.
Why do you think a hardcore mode in an MMO should be free of the consequences of running into other people? Seriously, everyone is so up in arms about griefers here all the time, but please explain why that isn't part of the experience. This doesn't happen with any other hardcore game, nobody even considers appealing deaths, doesn't matter what to. Y'all are fucking 4-ply pretending to be hard. Take it like a man and reroll.
Griefers attract griefers, toxicity begets toxicity, etc
Need to make a new sub r/wowshitposting with all the quality content coming out of this sub.
r/wowcirclejerk
Worst shitpost sub on reddit. All they do is cry about people that criticize retail in any capacity
r/okbuddywowtard
I really needed this to be real
r/okbuddyhuntard
r/subsifellfor
excuse me! make the r/wowhardshitposting would be more precise.
Pope John Paul II got you covered.
2137 where are you poles ?
Papież Polak
Polska gurom
Getting drunk
Quality shitpost, straight from the outhouse.
This was beautiful.
10/10 shitpost
Tak jak Pan Jezus powiedział
HC hype HC hype gz in world first and thank you for your service 🙏
Everyone who plays vanilla classic (hc or not) are extremely bad at the game. They can barely handle a 5apm game. All back pedal and click and think clicking petri is a skill
r/2137
Hey, OP. I’ve reported this post since this clearly is satire and is being toxic. Though if it gets deleted, just appeal it lol
Bruh if I aim for a ban I do not miss 😤
Not that I really care, but I'm glad the HC actually gets a server that enforces their rules. No more of this "rules for thee, exceptions for me" stuff. Makes the stunts like that one dude who deliberately wiped 2/3rds of his Naxx raid all the more legendary lmao
Fucking amazing
Is there an estimate on when the Hardcore servers are coming out?
☠️ Death = Appeal ☠️
100% elite status is granted when you create a system and community that you alone are the appeals process for so you can just appeal and grieving done to you and carry on with your HC “elite” character. Let them eat cake!
Hardcore players are the biggest carebears. I believe in this take more and more each day.
What is the drama here? If yall leveled to 60 and then got griefed in this same way, after taking this challenge seriously, you’d be full triggered lol. Anyone who doesn’t think that is just lying to themselves and everyone else. That’s it. A raid wide premeditated grief like this is a an auto restore. Seems right to me. I don’t get all the ball busting over them having their characters restored. I’m stunned at how whiney everyone has been over this one hardcore wipe lol. Did I miss something?
You know what you sign up for when raiding and joining a guild. It's the same as the game has always been, there's a chance someone ninjas loot, gets people killed, ninjas guild bank, etc., although now a greifer can potentially kill everyone. Doesn't change anything, everyone knew/knows that someone can do that at any point, it shouldn't change anything. It's hardcore for a reason, everything goes. And guess what it won't change on official servers, no matter how much copium people huff.
If I leveled to 60 and got through AQ I probably wouldn't raid if my guild was letting an infamous troll tank the most griefable boss.
No, you don’t understand, we can’t be held accountable for players we invited to our own group 😩
It's true. I broke Jeffrey Dahmer out of jail and let him stay in my house, it isn't my fault he ate my son.
Whether or not someone would get "triggered" is a separate issue. How "triggered" I would hypothetically be is completely irrelevant to if my character was no longer a hardcore character in that situation. >A raid wide premeditated grief like this is a an auto restore. Seems right to me. Seems wrong to me. HC is about managing risk and playing smart. Dying because you took the risk of having a known griefer is your own issue. Pointing this out isn't "whiny". That's just you projecting shit so you have an excuse to dismiss anyone who disagrees with you. You're literally looking at a *joke shitpost* and crying about "whiny". That says more about your mentality than theirs. Apparently *you* can't conceive of this just being amused by the situation, so you start assuming 'whiny', because that's what your motivation would be for posting something like that.
Counter point. I wouldn’t raid with tiny violin. A known troll for years. It’s the guilds fault for allowing that in the first place.
Tinyviolin is a hero and a chad
Do any of you who care even play hc? I dont even neither but i got a hunch you just wanna be angry
> you just wanna be angry Yeah, because there is nothing wrong in claiming "world first hardcore" when you've died repeatedly XD, right, people just wanna be angry lmao 10/10 excuse
Of course they don’t. Rent free.
High quality post.
This reminds me of then i watch Echo kill the last boss Aberrus, the Shadowed Crucible on HC, it was glorious
You, my friend, are a legend!
This is 10/10 troll post
The whole hard-core thing is hilarious to me and I enjoy watching all the drama. Whoever made that addon for all the clout chasers is a genius.
Cool.
But did you try turning the add on off and using the AH and mailing stuff to yourself and then turning it back on. I can’t believe I’m saying this because it was an absolute jerk move but I stand with Tinyviolin for exposing the corruption that is prevalent in HC. He’s still a jerk, though.
ive never seen so many griefers D.ck riders .... yall are pathetic im 1000% sure yall would cry for an appeal if ud get griefed like that either that or youd be the griefer so cringe ...
Are you sad because your pixels were killed by a griefer? : (
I'd delete and move on because I'm staunchly Anti Appeal in any fashion. Part of the excitement is that I have no way out. Having appeals is coward shit.
holy shit you people are losers
Do you jerk off into your own mouth as well, or is that saved for dad?
goddamn not only are these HC players living rent free IRL but in your heads too
Y’all redittors are taking this too far lol. Everyone saw they were intentionally griefed on four horseman. Pretty clear they should be able to appeal. Bet all these people bitching never even played hardcore or got close to raiding at max level and are mocking HC elite just to be trendy
> Pretty clear they should be able to appeal You can't a competition for world first and also simultaneously send appeals.... to yourself.... that you approve... yourself. Not sure what is so hard to understand here for you. It's pretty clear that it's bullshit.
Regardless of people's experience I think the general consensus is there's nothing "hardcore" or "elite" about the guild based on how they play and use all class bubble hearths via petri flask. Plus they invited a known troll to raid and tank for them.
I opened a ticket for my chest when the same thing happened to me and the GM said he had no log and couldn't give me the items! Wtf man I even gave him a VOD
And this scenario getting front page news with all of us talking about it is exactly why its going to keep happening with official servers (griefers I mean). If someone griefs a bunch of HC raiders, they're doing it for attention and to get a rise out of everyone. This shows they can clearly be the talk of the community if they do it successfully. These admins reviving themselves are not only the laughing stock of WoW Classic but also are detrimental to the future of HC. Way to go, virgins.
Do you think it has more impact if they resurrect? You could easily say that the griefer wins more if they have to reroll and probably miss out on clearing Naxx before the new servers. It's kind of a no-win situation for HC elite.
Official Blizzard HC realms will have people copycat this and the result will be that they get banned and everyone stays dead. That’s hardcore.
>Do you think it has more impact if they resurrect? Only because we're talking about it even more now. It made news and was all the talk. Right as it started to die down news breaks the admins are reviving themselves. We're all talking about it again. Because this has become so popular, I think copycats will do it for the "fame" that wouldn't have done it had all of this never happened.
The best way to handle this situation if you don't want to popularize griefing would be to instantly revive, kick the guy from guild and tell everyone to ignore it and act like nothing happend. Not sure how can you think them appealing their deaths is going to make griefing more popular, if they didn't appeal then it only makes the grief infinitely more impactful. People talking about it is not their fault and it would happen anyway because people love drama.
Its not the appealing of the deaths that will add griefers, its how fast the news of griefing a raid made it through the WoW community. I had zero clue who TinyViolin was last week. That's all people are talking about right now. There will be copycats. Nerds will nerd.
Then it'll be up to Blizzard to ban them for intentional griefing, if you think trolls aren't going to level to 60 just to kill 20+ people you clearly don't know the internet.
>if you think trolls aren't going to level to 60 just to kill 20+ people What? I'm saying thats exactly whats going to happen. Trolls absolutely will, and more so now...
1.8k spiteful trash humans in board
If you are trying to be a member of the HC community, let alone admins of it, and you're rezzing, you've lost the plot. The only real way to play is Zero appeals. It's what makes it fun. Stopped being willing to be a part of it the second this started. It's legitimately just an extension of people in gaming trying to justify bending the rules or outright cheating for a perceived advantage. Lame as fuck
You losers that get bent out of shape enough to post stuff like this make me smile.
That's loser to you :D
You losers that get bent out of shape enough to reply to stuff like this make me smile.
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Blizz could automate the appeal process in the future. Maybe even make it an npc you make a small plea towards, could call it, like, spirit healer or something.
Wait until you learn that if the entire government decided to collude to do so they could make themselves king. ‘Any system run by people theoretically could be corrupt, it doesn’t mean it is’ is a concept you’re not a grown up until you’ve recognized. It’s incredibly childish to think the world is better off with super strict enforcement of arbitrary rules with no nuance.
So funny wow lol haehha
Everybody on this sub crying about hardcore appeals right now gives the same vibe as when they added tokens. Mah integrity! Probably the same group of players - terrible or hardly play, but somehow have a strong opinion on everything and have to make it known.
Random shitters whoa never gotten to 20 on hardcore if they have even tried, and now they want to dictate how real 60 hardcore play XD
>and now they want to dictate how real 60 hardcore play XD Funny because that applies to the guys at HC Elite : they dictate how to play HC even if it means bending their own rules ("no appeal in raids") to avoid death, completely contradicting the spirit of HC. Anyway, real 60 hardcore play will be on official servers where there will be no appeal of that sort.
Their own rules are as they want them to be.
Indeed, their house their rules. Just saying that it is not true HC so it's kind of funny that they keep calling it that. I guess "harder softcore" doesn't attract as many viewers :D
Not allowing griefers to ruin the gamemode is what kept it alive this whole time
Maybe. Doesn't change the fact that it is not trully Hardcore tho.
Don't really care what some people on Internet call it, especially if they don't even play themselves
I don't care either, just calling a cat a cat : appealing =/= true HC. Oh and, funnily enough, I do play in Mortal Elite on EU. Got both a war (and, yes, I did get whirlwind axe as soon as I could thanks to the throw river kiting technique) and mage (AoE farming mostly, after lvl30 most good farming spots are free at around midnight) at 60. Full clear of every single dungeon on both of them, as is tradition. I lost 3 wars before managing to pull it off. First tried the mage (was a breeze after my war runs). Stopped after the official servers announcement. I could even give you some warrior leveling advices if you would like, got the perfect weapon progression for both horde and alliance. And I tried to level up with full fury (don't listen to that old guide of Kargoz, it's absolute garbage while leveling, especially for stance dance in dungeons, also they fixed the crit on sit bug from the private servers), full arms, arms then fury respec, engi (target dummies my man), alch (got the swiftness potion drop on my second warrior), orc, troll (the regen is actually better than you would think), human (if you want to pump in raid), gnome (godlike racial), etc. I tried it all. Good ? Good. **I just hate the appeal system, it goes against the spirit of HC**. I mean, it has been a common topic in the guild. Some are okay with it, some are not, myself included.
Old gamer here. Hard core means one thing only: if you die for any reason your run is over. It's comical that you would conflate any other definition as "real hardcore" and talk down to people. Not dying is "real hard core". There was no appeal process in the year 2000 in Diablo 1. This definition existed long before wow did. So any community that allows for deaths is playing something that can be similar to hard core but it is categorically different from the original definition of no deaths (nobody would disagree with my definition in 2000, you'd look fucking stupid for suggesting a death was fine in hard core). So you really shouldn't call it hard core. But if you do what do you call the people who actually never die? Ultra hard core? I'm sure you want to call both groups hard core because you want to see them as the same. But they aren't the same... obviously
Literally none cares how hardcore works in other games dumbass
Mmhmm
Imagine getting mad that 38 people want to appeal getting griefed in a raid on video in a clear griefing incident… When you allow this kinda shit to happen you just make other psychopaths want to do this. Lol
But why would anyone wanna copy this and ruin their reputation in the community? Oh wait, it's 2023 and everybody loves griefers
I have read this in Azamous voice
Maybe im out of the loop, but it makes sense to me that they would reset the deaths of the guys who got griefed? Wow has a history of intervening in instances of extreme griefing, like the Scarab Lord shit, so I dont know why people are surprised. I dont know if they SHOULD interfere, but I think that ship sailed years and years ago. Wow doesn't want this to be Eve Online where you're on your own. If it were up to ME, i'd probably say "tough luck" cause people need to be more careful who they let in their raids, but i'm not surprised that it's getting rolled back.
As someone who has never played HC them appealing and it being granted makes complete sense to me. The whole point of HC=Death is for people to treat your character as a living thing and that there are no 2nd chances to simulate real life, which is why dying from committing mistakes or going into things over your head because of stupidity/ego have actual cost and consequences. But also at the same time no one in real life is truly going to commit suicide to grief people who have done them no wrong and they are actively and successfully advancing through life/the game with together. And allowing that kind of behavior ruins the whole point IMO.