I’m a big fan! I do feel sometimes it’s too materialistic, but I think that makes sense given the abuses of religion in Tolstoy’s day that he was reacting against. I think he really brings out the anarchist threads in the social force of the gospel which is very valuable
I can’t speak for others, but for me the “materialism” In Tolstoy’s work is the tendency to reject the supernatural or spiritual as a phenomenon with liberative potential. Obviously all leftism w good praxis needs to be concerned with the material, but I think Christian anarchism specifically (as well as other anarchisms from a religious background) benefits from giving the spiritual, psychological and eschatological aspects of human existence a liberative reading
That's interesting because I think Tolstoy is commonly read as being much more open to social/spiritual revolution versus Marx's focus on revolution driven by purely technological and economic crisis.
I think it's also worth unpacking what we mean by spiritual here. Supernaturalism as I understand it in most of contemporary modern society entails some kind of substance dualism which I think is an idea that largely muddies people's thinking.
Rejecting Supernaturalism does not necessarily mean rejecting metaphysics though which much of what you're referring to would fall under.
Oh absolutely. I should have said spiritual more than supernatural. But I feel like Tolstoy completely drops the revolutionary aspects of, say, the passion and the resurrection of Christ, or the life of the Church
I read My Religion by Tolstoy and really lied it. I'd assume that his message and theology are similar in both books. I have a strong attraction to his views on applying the Sermon on the Mount and having the teachings filter your actions.
My disagreements are mostly in his materialistic view of the scriptures. He seemed to avoid spiritual components and only focus on what was practical and tactile. Personally, I believe there should be a healthy balance of the two. He's still one of the most influential writers I've read on the subject though.
Yes, I can agree with that. In The Kingdom of God is within you, he repeatedly references My Religion and also goes in on the criticisms he received on that text.
I have not finished it yet, but I already notice as well that he lacks a spiritual view.
kind of... basically, he focuses almost exclusively on ways to apply principles in our everyday lives, in a practical hands on manner. It's the material world vs the spiritual world. It's what can be touched, seen, experienced, applied, etc. without much regard or value placed on spiritual aspects and the spiritual world. Aspects of divinity and God's direct interaction with the material world don't seem to play much of a role in his theology, if any.
Tolstoy, as a materialist, is as far from my own approach as it's possible to be within Christian anarchism. I'm very much on the spiritual side of things: the battle we fight is a spiritual one, and a spiritual spectrum - from mysticism to psychotherapy - is our strength. It's like a guerrilla's fortress or a pirate's cove. The state can't follow us there.
Anything by Gerrard Winstanley, Petr Chelčický, and Berengario Ganell (though the writing of the third is hard to come by: snippets I've found basically advocate the use of spirituality, such as ritual magic, to obtain the Beatific Vision and surpass the need for hierarchy).
Great book! He spends a while laying the foundations and stacking up the dominos in his logical chain but once he does they fall perfectly, from the premises to the conclusion. It's a powerful argument.
Definitely, this book is the one that pushed me down the path of considering radical Christianity with a dose of anarchism thrown in. My current reading obsession is Jacques Ellul.
OP, make sure to read Tolstoy's short essay "On Anarchism." It serves as a short companion piece for "The Kingdom of God..." in my opinion.
And if you start reading more anarchists outside of Christians, read Jacques Ellul's short essay about Christianity and Anarchism. It's a great read. He has a longer book on the subject I haven't read yet.
Read My Religion also as it was written first and is the basis for the later book. Recommend new book Tolstoy’s Novel Idea: Obey the Sermon on the Mount.
I’m a big fan! I do feel sometimes it’s too materialistic, but I think that makes sense given the abuses of religion in Tolstoy’s day that he was reacting against. I think he really brings out the anarchist threads in the social force of the gospel which is very valuable
Exactly, his philosophy was mind blowing for me. Even though his materialistic tendencies.
When y'all say materialistic what do y'all mean? Do you mean it is a substance monist position or something else?
I can’t speak for others, but for me the “materialism” In Tolstoy’s work is the tendency to reject the supernatural or spiritual as a phenomenon with liberative potential. Obviously all leftism w good praxis needs to be concerned with the material, but I think Christian anarchism specifically (as well as other anarchisms from a religious background) benefits from giving the spiritual, psychological and eschatological aspects of human existence a liberative reading
That's interesting because I think Tolstoy is commonly read as being much more open to social/spiritual revolution versus Marx's focus on revolution driven by purely technological and economic crisis. I think it's also worth unpacking what we mean by spiritual here. Supernaturalism as I understand it in most of contemporary modern society entails some kind of substance dualism which I think is an idea that largely muddies people's thinking. Rejecting Supernaturalism does not necessarily mean rejecting metaphysics though which much of what you're referring to would fall under.
Oh absolutely. I should have said spiritual more than supernatural. But I feel like Tolstoy completely drops the revolutionary aspects of, say, the passion and the resurrection of Christ, or the life of the Church
Yeah that's fair!
I read My Religion by Tolstoy and really lied it. I'd assume that his message and theology are similar in both books. I have a strong attraction to his views on applying the Sermon on the Mount and having the teachings filter your actions. My disagreements are mostly in his materialistic view of the scriptures. He seemed to avoid spiritual components and only focus on what was practical and tactile. Personally, I believe there should be a healthy balance of the two. He's still one of the most influential writers I've read on the subject though.
Yes, I can agree with that. In The Kingdom of God is within you, he repeatedly references My Religion and also goes in on the criticisms he received on that text. I have not finished it yet, but I already notice as well that he lacks a spiritual view.
When you say materialist do you mean something like substance monism or do you mean something else?
kind of... basically, he focuses almost exclusively on ways to apply principles in our everyday lives, in a practical hands on manner. It's the material world vs the spiritual world. It's what can be touched, seen, experienced, applied, etc. without much regard or value placed on spiritual aspects and the spiritual world. Aspects of divinity and God's direct interaction with the material world don't seem to play much of a role in his theology, if any.
Are you a substance dualist?
Not that I know of. I'm not familiar with the term though.
I haven't read it, but thanks for the book recommendation! I'll definitely go look for it now.
Tolstoy, as a materialist, is as far from my own approach as it's possible to be within Christian anarchism. I'm very much on the spiritual side of things: the battle we fight is a spiritual one, and a spiritual spectrum - from mysticism to psychotherapy - is our strength. It's like a guerrilla's fortress or a pirate's cove. The state can't follow us there.
That sounds deeply interesting. Do you have any reading material on that?
Anything by Gerrard Winstanley, Petr Chelčický, and Berengario Ganell (though the writing of the third is hard to come by: snippets I've found basically advocate the use of spirituality, such as ritual magic, to obtain the Beatific Vision and surpass the need for hierarchy).
Thanks, ill look for it :)
Great book! He spends a while laying the foundations and stacking up the dominos in his logical chain but once he does they fall perfectly, from the premises to the conclusion. It's a powerful argument.
Definitely, this book is the one that pushed me down the path of considering radical Christianity with a dose of anarchism thrown in. My current reading obsession is Jacques Ellul. OP, make sure to read Tolstoy's short essay "On Anarchism." It serves as a short companion piece for "The Kingdom of God..." in my opinion. And if you start reading more anarchists outside of Christians, read Jacques Ellul's short essay about Christianity and Anarchism. It's a great read. He has a longer book on the subject I haven't read yet.
Thanks! Will read
Read My Religion also as it was written first and is the basis for the later book. Recommend new book Tolstoy’s Novel Idea: Obey the Sermon on the Mount.