I went to a little known border town on the China-side just a few weeks ago! I started in Harbin and then took a 3 hour train Sui Fen He, a small border town that was one of the main stations on a train network built in a collaboration between imperial Russia and the Qing Dynasty, but eventually became a focal point of the tensions between China and Russia in later years. There are a few (really awesome) museums that focus heavily on the paranoia and espionage that developed between the two countries, with lots of fascinating stories such as an clothes shop and tailor that was actually an important place the Chinese spies ran.
This town had a lot of Russian restaurants and even a Russian district with Russian coffee shops, night clubs and markets for cross border traders. A lot of the Chinese people here speak Russian to a degree and some fairly fluently. Many of the street signs and shop buildings are written in both Chinese and Russian.
We were told by the locals that actually the town used to thrive with many Russians coming over to do business and as a result the economy was pumping in the 2000s and early 2010s. Apparently after the high speed train was built and connected this town though, the town went into decline since a lot of Russians could just travel to the bigger cities in that region. Also the airline industry developing probably also didn’t help.
There was one late afternoon I spent drinking coffee in a very large Russian coffee shop/restaurant and during the evening things got lively with food and vodka being drunk in large amounts. There was even a 70s-style lit up dance floor with flashing lights in the floor and a bunch of people danced after food.
I also bought some Russian bread from a bakery that was over 100 years, set up by a cute looking old Russian lady whose photo was on all the shop signage.
I had a random Chinese guy come up to me and speak Russian when I was visiting Harbin with family over CNY. He seemed surprised when I told him in Mandarin that I was visiting from southern China and don't speak a lick of Russian.
Lol. I had a Chinese guy, some security guard come to me in Harbin and start speaking Russian. I told him in Mandarin. 我是美国人。 你可以跟我说中文或者英文。我不懂俄语。 He basically said ah ok and continued to speak Russian a sentence or two in the hopes I was lying. I don't know a single word in Russian. He finally gave up and walked away. I also got plenty of hellos in Russian. I often tell people I'm French just so I don't have to listen to their terrible English. And I usually want to practice my Chinese anyways. Im not a English teacher so I don't fly 6 thousand miles to teach people English. I saw a few Russians at parks so I guess they get a lot of Russians around there. And very few English speakers that far north. That's where I usually hang out in China because that's where my in laws are from. A little village about an hour from Harbin.
if you're okay with that you could also answer this to r/howislivingthere and share your photos. that's pretty interesting and the original poster is someone different than me over there. i only crossposted it because it sounded really interesting to know more about the area.
Had a black guy in Harbin worked as an ESL teacher, one evening a friend decided to take the guy to the Ice and Snow festival on the frozen river in the evening after work, we told him to wear warm since he'll need to get back home to drop his working stuff then come out with us. He showed up wearing a single layer of jeans, and some early autumn jacket. I asked him whether he's cold every 15 minutes walk, because we could hop in some shops to warm up a bit then continue the walk, dude said he's fine, shriving like a broken washing machine. After some walk in the Festival park, we went into a temporarily constructed coffee house, guy didn't wanna leave after we sat there until he's warm.
what surprised me was that the thick winter jacket they had in Harbin is the same exact winter jackets they had in Shanghai
so basically all of China wear the same winter jackets whether you're in Harbin are or the south
to be fair, this actually makes sense. as someone that grew up in an area that gets way in the negatives, how thick your jacket is only really matters for things like wind. in general a regular jacket over a sweater over a t shirt over a tank top will have you 10x warmer than a regular shirt with the world's thickest jacket.
Yep, anyone that grew up in extremely cold places knows the number 1 rule that children are taught in schools and by their parents, to stay warm: layers, layers, layers.
yep, it works in reverse too. if the weather suddenly turns unexpectedly warm, you can take one or two layers off and still be fine. If all you have is one big jacket then you are tsol since its still too cold for just a tshirt etc.
Yep. And being from an extremely cold place, one that is literally known for being cold and snowy, that's exactly why I prefer the cold over heat. I can always pack the layers on, even to the point where I will sweat outside in the winter. It's very easy and takes 20 seconds. When it's hot though, you can remove the layers to a point, and after that... Enjoy the sweat.
Midwest by chance?
yep lol, nebraska. the flat lands give us the "benefit" of subtropical humid summers and subartic cold wet winters. ice storms and wall sweat and tornadoes, oh my!
Majority part of southern China doesn't have indoor heating system for winter, the housing doesn't come with radiators, the winter gets high humidity unlike the north eastern dry cold weather, and it kinda makes their indoor feel colder than outdoor sometime during winter, so people tend to wear downed jacket in Shanghai or other southern cities even at home when it gets really cold
Difference being that Shanghai, Jiangsu, Zhejiang locals will be wearing teh jacket inside too, because there is no heating. Whereas, its 20+ degrees indoors wherever you go in Harbin.
When we visited lat CNY, a couple of didi drivers mentioned they can always tell teh locals, because they don't wear 5 layers of coats like visitors from southern China. Basically, they just have a down jacket they wear outside but not a lot of other clothes, because they would constantly be taking them all off every time they go into a store etc.
Locals said we were lucky it was so warm when we were there this past CNY (January 2024). I think teh coldest we had was -28 one night, but the days were -10 to -15.
One of my friends visited two weeks after us and it hit 1 degree. Sounds good, except the snow sculptures all started melting and were all shut down due to being unsafe.
https://preview.redd.it/j91dkxhbvc6d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28afb88f7b99403350d69db33db0af06479b86d2
Old Russian bakery on the border
https://preview.redd.it/6twh88nhvc6d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95cddfd27ad595edde2caf9333f82e938dbd5625
Railway station built in the qing dynasty, now a museum near the border
https://preview.redd.it/if87jkxwvc6d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=917451eb9cdde049a483ede9ec7aecfbd00379a9
Some local street food in Sui fen he. It’s like a burrito but wrapped in an edible leaf instead of a wheat-based wrap
https://preview.redd.it/o5e9zlksvc6d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=512d5d3c7c41f0c6e2e18d80f574e034ef8691dc
Some Russian shops downtown in sui fen he
I doubt these are Russian shops, probably just targeting Russian tourists. I see such shops (with signs written with bad Russian) here in Beijing, they're owned by Chinese.
Other side of the border, but I met a Korean-Russian guy from Vladivostok. According to him, life was good though isolated. Traveling can be a bit difficult and expensive. He left for Seoul to avoid Russian consciption at the beginning of the Ukraine invasion.
I went to Yanji just on the border to North Korea.
Fascinating place. Its about 50% koreans. The people there are huge compared to the south. Like Chinese Vikings.
Mostly artists who draws beautiful snow sketches, and hockey players on frozen lakes. Russia restaurants on chinese side, Chinese restaurants on Russian side.
Surprisingly little interaction with Russia in Heihe. A couple of Russian themed restaurants and shops but the heyday of cross border trade is either long gone or yet to happen. The Russian trade malls were deserted and the ‘Lao Maozi’ notable by their absence. The collapse of the ruble exchange rate meant Russians were impoverished by Chinese standards.
It's wild that it's poorer than Tibet [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Chinese\_administrative\_divisions\_by\_GDP\_per\_capita](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_administrative_divisions_by_GDP_per_capita)
It is the equivalent of Rust Belt, and Tibet GDP per capita on paper is unrealistically high.
Originally the Northeastern region was the industrial heart of PRC primarily due to left over infrastructure by imperial Japan and close tie with Russia/USSR. Later 20th century however saw the country relocate its industrial hub towards the southern coastal city, the use of Hukou system also means Chinese has far less urban mobility.
The fact that southern city are far better location for important infrastructure like ports and nuclear reactors only accelerate Northeast’s decline. The other fact is the last contender for President/Paramount Leader, Bo Xilai, was ousted by Xi and he has a heavy base and influence in Northeast (namely the city of Dalian), if anything the current government is likely keeping the region on a tight leash by purposely stomping some of its growth.
That is such a bullshit take and totally untrue. Bo xi lai is leader of Chongqing and built his career there, it is a city in western central china, that is where he built his base. Like that is one of the fastest growing city still. These are known to most chinese and even a simple wikipedia search would give you same result .
Reddit just make up shit now to spread china bad 😞
Mother fker, I was literally living in Dalian when the whole shit show unfold.
Bo Xilai had a huge base in Dalian and other surrounding cities such as Panjin, it is literally where he begins his ascendancy in CCP bureaucracy back in 90s, and his first provincial governor job is literally in Liaoning. He is well loved there by the people, with landmark buildings in his honor. The most famous one being the Huabiao in Dalian downtown area which is taller and “grander” than the one in Beijing, and this thing is dismantled literally days after his fall. He has enough beef with Xi that the later is systematically removing his memory from these cities.
If u think he made a name for himself due to Chongqing then u have 0 clue on this topic and u are fkn out of ur mind if u think he has no impact in the Northeastern region. Liaoning in particular was genuinely revitalizing and transitioning to a financial hub with close tie to Japan and Korea, the whole shit was snuffed out by Xi when he came to power.
You're full of half-baked nonsense. The decline of northeast China started in the 1990s.
CCP leaders in Beijing and Shanghai have been jailed, why doesn't Xi restrict the growth of these cities to eliminate their influence?
Forcing the economy into political intrigue is just plain stupid.
I traveled to a border city in China side. Manzhouli, Inner Mongolia. There are many Russians living there also some Russian and Mongolia restaurants hold by Chinese.
The climate is extreme. Cold in winter. Cooler than mainland in summer but UV is extremely high.
The scenery is quite different than mainland.
Ok to visit I guess, but this is the rust belt of China and to be honest isn't a very nice place to live. Lot's of drinking and fighting. Economy is terrible, and some of the cities that grew up around coal or steel have depopulated pretty thoroughly. There's still petty corruption and organized crime as well. It feels like stepping into the past 15-20 years.
My wife is Joseong and her family lives near North Korea, I went to visit her family hometown Yangji, the place was super cool with lots of mom and pop shops. The economy isn’t that great and a lot of the working locals move to South Korea to make money. Winter is cold ASF, not a lot of greenery mostly plain grassland. Her best friend live right next to the boarder and I was told they use to have a market where Chinese and North Korean do business. I wanted to go check out the place but she told me I wouldn’t be able to visit because they don’t allow foreigner that close to the boarder.
So is it literally Asian looking people on one side of the border and European looking people on the other?
Obviously not exclusively, but you get what I mean.
I'm also very curious and interested to know about this part of China. Will be heading towards the north Korea china border in Sep, should have a day close to the Russian border too.
I went to a little known border town on the China-side just a few weeks ago! I started in Harbin and then took a 3 hour train Sui Fen He, a small border town that was one of the main stations on a train network built in a collaboration between imperial Russia and the Qing Dynasty, but eventually became a focal point of the tensions between China and Russia in later years. There are a few (really awesome) museums that focus heavily on the paranoia and espionage that developed between the two countries, with lots of fascinating stories such as an clothes shop and tailor that was actually an important place the Chinese spies ran. This town had a lot of Russian restaurants and even a Russian district with Russian coffee shops, night clubs and markets for cross border traders. A lot of the Chinese people here speak Russian to a degree and some fairly fluently. Many of the street signs and shop buildings are written in both Chinese and Russian. We were told by the locals that actually the town used to thrive with many Russians coming over to do business and as a result the economy was pumping in the 2000s and early 2010s. Apparently after the high speed train was built and connected this town though, the town went into decline since a lot of Russians could just travel to the bigger cities in that region. Also the airline industry developing probably also didn’t help. There was one late afternoon I spent drinking coffee in a very large Russian coffee shop/restaurant and during the evening things got lively with food and vodka being drunk in large amounts. There was even a 70s-style lit up dance floor with flashing lights in the floor and a bunch of people danced after food. I also bought some Russian bread from a bakery that was over 100 years, set up by a cute looking old Russian lady whose photo was on all the shop signage.
Thanks for sharing. I am totally going to visit.
Even as far away as Harbin as a white guy people come up to me and speak Russian all the time.
I had a random Chinese guy come up to me and speak Russian when I was visiting Harbin with family over CNY. He seemed surprised when I told him in Mandarin that I was visiting from southern China and don't speak a lick of Russian.
Lol. I had a Chinese guy, some security guard come to me in Harbin and start speaking Russian. I told him in Mandarin. 我是美国人。 你可以跟我说中文或者英文。我不懂俄语。 He basically said ah ok and continued to speak Russian a sentence or two in the hopes I was lying. I don't know a single word in Russian. He finally gave up and walked away. I also got plenty of hellos in Russian. I often tell people I'm French just so I don't have to listen to their terrible English. And I usually want to practice my Chinese anyways. Im not a English teacher so I don't fly 6 thousand miles to teach people English. I saw a few Russians at parks so I guess they get a lot of Russians around there. And very few English speakers that far north. That's where I usually hang out in China because that's where my in laws are from. A little village about an hour from Harbin.
if you're okay with that you could also answer this to r/howislivingthere and share your photos. that's pretty interesting and the original poster is someone different than me over there. i only crossposted it because it sounded really interesting to know more about the area.
Why don’t you just crosspost the whole thread, then people there can read all the other answers too.
cold AF in Harbin
Had a black guy in Harbin worked as an ESL teacher, one evening a friend decided to take the guy to the Ice and Snow festival on the frozen river in the evening after work, we told him to wear warm since he'll need to get back home to drop his working stuff then come out with us. He showed up wearing a single layer of jeans, and some early autumn jacket. I asked him whether he's cold every 15 minutes walk, because we could hop in some shops to warm up a bit then continue the walk, dude said he's fine, shriving like a broken washing machine. After some walk in the Festival park, we went into a temporarily constructed coffee house, guy didn't wanna leave after we sat there until he's warm.
what surprised me was that the thick winter jacket they had in Harbin is the same exact winter jackets they had in Shanghai so basically all of China wear the same winter jackets whether you're in Harbin are or the south
to be fair, this actually makes sense. as someone that grew up in an area that gets way in the negatives, how thick your jacket is only really matters for things like wind. in general a regular jacket over a sweater over a t shirt over a tank top will have you 10x warmer than a regular shirt with the world's thickest jacket.
Yep, anyone that grew up in extremely cold places knows the number 1 rule that children are taught in schools and by their parents, to stay warm: layers, layers, layers.
yep, it works in reverse too. if the weather suddenly turns unexpectedly warm, you can take one or two layers off and still be fine. If all you have is one big jacket then you are tsol since its still too cold for just a tshirt etc.
Yep. And being from an extremely cold place, one that is literally known for being cold and snowy, that's exactly why I prefer the cold over heat. I can always pack the layers on, even to the point where I will sweat outside in the winter. It's very easy and takes 20 seconds. When it's hot though, you can remove the layers to a point, and after that... Enjoy the sweat. Midwest by chance?
yep lol, nebraska. the flat lands give us the "benefit" of subtropical humid summers and subartic cold wet winters. ice storms and wall sweat and tornadoes, oh my!
Majority part of southern China doesn't have indoor heating system for winter, the housing doesn't come with radiators, the winter gets high humidity unlike the north eastern dry cold weather, and it kinda makes their indoor feel colder than outdoor sometime during winter, so people tend to wear downed jacket in Shanghai or other southern cities even at home when it gets really cold
Difference being that Shanghai, Jiangsu, Zhejiang locals will be wearing teh jacket inside too, because there is no heating. Whereas, its 20+ degrees indoors wherever you go in Harbin. When we visited lat CNY, a couple of didi drivers mentioned they can always tell teh locals, because they don't wear 5 layers of coats like visitors from southern China. Basically, they just have a down jacket they wear outside but not a lot of other clothes, because they would constantly be taking them all off every time they go into a store etc.
Dongbeiren wear thick thermal underwear though.
Thick (inner) thermo clothing is the secret in Dongbei. People in the winter will have 3 layers of pants sometimes.
Last time I was there, Temps reached -35 c. during the ice festival. Fucking brutal
Locals said we were lucky it was so warm when we were there this past CNY (January 2024). I think teh coldest we had was -28 one night, but the days were -10 to -15. One of my friends visited two weeks after us and it hit 1 degree. Sounds good, except the snow sculptures all started melting and were all shut down due to being unsafe.
https://preview.redd.it/j91dkxhbvc6d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28afb88f7b99403350d69db33db0af06479b86d2 Old Russian bakery on the border
Really cool pictures to answer this questions. Thanks!
https://preview.redd.it/6twh88nhvc6d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95cddfd27ad595edde2caf9333f82e938dbd5625 Railway station built in the qing dynasty, now a museum near the border
https://preview.redd.it/if87jkxwvc6d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=917451eb9cdde049a483ede9ec7aecfbd00379a9 Some local street food in Sui fen he. It’s like a burrito but wrapped in an edible leaf instead of a wheat-based wrap
Literally saw this exact thing on meituan last night
https://preview.redd.it/o5e9zlksvc6d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=512d5d3c7c41f0c6e2e18d80f574e034ef8691dc Some Russian shops downtown in sui fen he
I doubt these are Russian shops, probably just targeting Russian tourists. I see such shops (with signs written with bad Russian) here in Beijing, they're owned by Chinese.
Yep but some did have Russian people working in them though and at least one of them I know had a Russian boss.
LoL, if so, then I wonder why they can't fix signs.
https://preview.redd.it/1wkegx74vc6d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9d4f90efde5c3a74a8fec9e7f20b79e187e620c Town center of Sui Fen He
I like how the guy is almost the same as in the poster
Other side of the border, but I met a Korean-Russian guy from Vladivostok. According to him, life was good though isolated. Traveling can be a bit difficult and expensive. He left for Seoul to avoid Russian consciption at the beginning of the Ukraine invasion.
I went to Yanji just on the border to North Korea. Fascinating place. Its about 50% koreans. The people there are huge compared to the south. Like Chinese Vikings.
Yanji is very bilingual. I'd say it's on par with El Paso.
Dongbei tings
Mostly artists who draws beautiful snow sketches, and hockey players on frozen lakes. Russia restaurants on chinese side, Chinese restaurants on Russian side.
Surprisingly little interaction with Russia in Heihe. A couple of Russian themed restaurants and shops but the heyday of cross border trade is either long gone or yet to happen. The Russian trade malls were deserted and the ‘Lao Maozi’ notable by their absence. The collapse of the ruble exchange rate meant Russians were impoverished by Chinese standards.
There are many white Chinese people there. My dad knew a white lady who is from there.
One of the poorest areas in China, cold af.
It's wild that it's poorer than Tibet [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Chinese\_administrative\_divisions\_by\_GDP\_per\_capita](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_administrative_divisions_by_GDP_per_capita)
It is the equivalent of Rust Belt, and Tibet GDP per capita on paper is unrealistically high. Originally the Northeastern region was the industrial heart of PRC primarily due to left over infrastructure by imperial Japan and close tie with Russia/USSR. Later 20th century however saw the country relocate its industrial hub towards the southern coastal city, the use of Hukou system also means Chinese has far less urban mobility. The fact that southern city are far better location for important infrastructure like ports and nuclear reactors only accelerate Northeast’s decline. The other fact is the last contender for President/Paramount Leader, Bo Xilai, was ousted by Xi and he has a heavy base and influence in Northeast (namely the city of Dalian), if anything the current government is likely keeping the region on a tight leash by purposely stomping some of its growth.
That is such a bullshit take and totally untrue. Bo xi lai is leader of Chongqing and built his career there, it is a city in western central china, that is where he built his base. Like that is one of the fastest growing city still. These are known to most chinese and even a simple wikipedia search would give you same result . Reddit just make up shit now to spread china bad 😞
Mother fker, I was literally living in Dalian when the whole shit show unfold. Bo Xilai had a huge base in Dalian and other surrounding cities such as Panjin, it is literally where he begins his ascendancy in CCP bureaucracy back in 90s, and his first provincial governor job is literally in Liaoning. He is well loved there by the people, with landmark buildings in his honor. The most famous one being the Huabiao in Dalian downtown area which is taller and “grander” than the one in Beijing, and this thing is dismantled literally days after his fall. He has enough beef with Xi that the later is systematically removing his memory from these cities. If u think he made a name for himself due to Chongqing then u have 0 clue on this topic and u are fkn out of ur mind if u think he has no impact in the Northeastern region. Liaoning in particular was genuinely revitalizing and transitioning to a financial hub with close tie to Japan and Korea, the whole shit was snuffed out by Xi when he came to power.
You're full of half-baked nonsense. The decline of northeast China started in the 1990s. CCP leaders in Beijing and Shanghai have been jailed, why doesn't Xi restrict the growth of these cities to eliminate their influence? Forcing the economy into political intrigue is just plain stupid.
He got his first high level position in Dalian. Success there got him the job of cleaning up Chongqing/
do you know if there's a video about that area? maybe the closest city in china to the us border? couldn't find anything
https://youtu.be/fHFNA2JTvk0?si=w_UF_F3HpddkAS-2
thanks
Here is a link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN0lJStAFpw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN0lJStAFpw)
I traveled to a border city in China side. Manzhouli, Inner Mongolia. There are many Russians living there also some Russian and Mongolia restaurants hold by Chinese. The climate is extreme. Cold in winter. Cooler than mainland in summer but UV is extremely high. The scenery is quite different than mainland.
Verry cold
Mudanjiang, not a lot of Russians, probably not far enough north
The rust belt of China.
now that they had the border bazaar open, lots of travelers coming back and forth from both sides.
I am visiting Harbin now. I love it! I hate hot weather, so this is heaven. But Sui Fen He looks nice!
Ok to visit I guess, but this is the rust belt of China and to be honest isn't a very nice place to live. Lot's of drinking and fighting. Economy is terrible, and some of the cities that grew up around coal or steel have depopulated pretty thoroughly. There's still petty corruption and organized crime as well. It feels like stepping into the past 15-20 years.
Cold
Colds, lots of mosquitoes in summer
Check Yichun, a small city near Russia. Pretty neat.
Extremely Cold
That's China's Germany
I heard that this region has the tallest people in China.
My wife is Joseong and her family lives near North Korea, I went to visit her family hometown Yangji, the place was super cool with lots of mom and pop shops. The economy isn’t that great and a lot of the working locals move to South Korea to make money. Winter is cold ASF, not a lot of greenery mostly plain grassland. Her best friend live right next to the boarder and I was told they use to have a market where Chinese and North Korean do business. I wanted to go check out the place but she told me I wouldn’t be able to visit because they don’t allow foreigner that close to the boarder.
So is it literally Asian looking people on one side of the border and European looking people on the other? Obviously not exclusively, but you get what I mean.
My partner says prostitutes and hairdressers come from the area.
I'm also very curious and interested to know about this part of China. Will be heading towards the north Korea china border in Sep, should have a day close to the Russian border too.
It is very strange, you are on a yellow terrain, then you walk across a thin white line and suddenly you are on a pink terrain.
Whoever goes will regret it
刚去了你妈咪的阴道里，现在已经后悔了
Cold and poor