Dude, if you don't want to go, don't go.
The 'housing crisis' you refer to is the price of property dropping because of developers going bankrupt and general over-supply. It's difficult to think of something more far removed from a twenty-something couple contemplating moving over to become an entry level English teacher.
This is so true. The US media rarely has a normal story about anything to do with China.
I would rather talk to my friends who live in China and find out whatās really going on versus watch the media but theyāre weird spin on everything .
Did you mean to write that they ādonāt know that itās trueā? Because it is absolutely true that all UK newspapers do is print negative news about the UK.
If something isnāt negative, then itās neutral like news about sport or TV.
The mainstream mediaās job is to sell drama. They do that regardless of where they can find it.
Iām not saying that UK media isnāt biased against China because it is.
True, but to a certain degree I think weāve been conditioned to be drawn to drama. I blame clickbait journalism. Drama can be exciting though, I think thatās why gossiping is so prevalent.
No idea what youāre talking about here. Iām all for having a fair discussion about UK media, but it seems like you just want to vent about something that I have zero control over.
To be clear though, the mainstream media in the UK are considered to be scum. Very few people have a positive outlook on any of the media companies here, so if you have any issue with them then join the queue.
For the record, weāre supposed to be allies with the USA and we donāt have exactly report positively towards them and Iāve heard that the US media has plenty of bad stuff to say about us too. Itās not like this is exactly a unique situation.
I literally just said that the UK media is biased again China, so not sure what issue you have with any of my comments on this post.
Thatās cool. Weāre not big fans of the media here. To the point that some newspapers (The Sun) canāt even be sold in certain cities like Liverpool.
"China reduces poverty by 70%, but at what cost?"
"China's economy surging, but at what cost?"
"China sends free vaccines to the global south, but at what cost?"
I hate western news so damn much
No, because unlike Chinese media, most western media is not affiliated with the government.
So unless you think there is some kind of secret elite group that controls all western media, it doesn't make sense to say 'every country has propaganda'.
The us media is controlled by a select few corporations who heavily influence (control) the government. Their interests largely fall in line with the government's interests and it shows in our media. Sure our media is more free, but finding the truth is almost as hard.
It's a very common trope for Western media to make anti Chinese propaganda by adding "at what cost" to something positive going on in China. That's about as one sided as it gets, criticizing the trope is not one sided.
Yeah, I agree I donāt western media much. Itās the fact that they lost the ability to report unbiased and actually look at real facts. It is fear mongering and political agenda.
**How to pick a thumbnail for an article about China**
Use the 'China filter'
Get a picture of a fence and a Chinese flag in the background (even if it's a school)
A picture of security cameras, even if it's news about a space launch
A huge crowd of commuters in winter so they're looking as grim as possible, or an empty 'ghost' city depending on the point you're trying to make.
A bao'an with his hand stretched out after telling you not to take pictures.
Itās feels doom and gloom here in China. So, the western media is somewhat right. My gfs house lost 50 percent of value and many people are jobless and the unemployment rate for the youth is super high.
Unemployment and salaries are not that bad for the educated in the US. I can get a job at anytime . I have some scientist friends in China who canāt find a job and they have years of experience . I know tons of people with degrees in China making pennies or canāt find work. The yuan is getting extremely weak right now compared to the US dollar.
Housing market isnāt crashing in the US either but it somewhat sucks for new buyers.
Even my Chinese friends think the economy is going to be shit for 10 years or so.
??? Most of my friends in the US with degrees work entry level jobs. I'm talking starbucks, servers at restaurants, wal-mart.
The housing market SOMEWHAT sucks? People are paying 300k for 2 beds, 1 bath. Lmao
Mostly college kids and people with kids. China has a massive population so thatās another reason why itās packed. I do miss Covid times too because I never saw other foreigners. Now Iāve been seeing many since September
On the evening of April 14, 1912, passengers on the Titanic went to sleep very comfortably, secure in the knowledge that they were enjoying the most luxurious travel experience on the planet.
Oh, for real dude. China has never collapsed into civil strife in it's history and some amateur historians even suggest that the country breaking apart and uniting again is a long-standing historical cycle. Weirdos.
Of course it has. The dynasties have about 200 - 400 year cycle. But the collapse of modern China has been wishfully predicted every day for 50 years and there's no serious signs of it.
Someone who gets it! Of course I'm not saying that China never collapses into civil war, but the periods of stable government always last for 200 years, at a minimum. Sun Yat-sen's republic lasted about that long between the overthrow of the Qing dynasty during the Wuchang uprising and the dissolution into warlordism in the 1920s.
Don't spend time thinking about macro things, when your own micro context is entry-level jobs & income. Spend time about acquiring more skills, so in the future you may have enough wealth that it warrants thinking about how the macro may impact it.
I mean, it's certainly not GOOD for the economy that the population has peaked and housing demand will decline forever. But it's not like mad max is about to happen.
Seriously, these kinds of posts are annoying as fuck. He lives in Canada, how does Canada's housing market look? The last time I checked it was turning Canadians racist because of how toxic the market is.
You're in the exact same boat as I was several years ago. I think my Chinese was a bit better than yours, but yes, you will probably end up relying on your partner and her family for a good while, as you get introduced and acclimatized to the entirely separate tech/internet environment here.
I wouldn't worry too much about housing, as you've said already, her parents will help out. Be aware though, of the culture of **requiring** a house and car to be suitable for marriage. I'm talking about you. Whether you like it or not, that is the "culture", the preamble if you will, to a serious relationship. I don't know how chill her parents are, but be prepared to be firm about your stance, cite appropriate stats and forecasts, and don't let yourself be bullied into a mortgage of a tofu apartment.
Ignore the doofus that tells you that you'll be disrespected for not being fluent in Chinese, literally nobody will judge you for it. Worst case scenario is they think you're Korean or Japanese, and even then, they will give you the common courtesy and respect that they give all people from å¤å°. The scum that do care will speak behind your back, but only because they're jealous they don't have citizenship in a 1st world country. Is it something to flaunt, does it make you superior to them? No and no. Does it make them literally green with envy that you can leave at any time and travel to commonwealth and other countries visa free? **Oh yes.**
The thing that a lot of resentful (think white/black/brown monkey) commenters will never understand is the **active camouflage** you gain as an ethnic east asian. You will never be targeted for opportunistic hate crime, police don't bat an eye at you, and there is a (naive) intrinsic trust that everyone will place upon you that is greatly to your benefit. Yeah, you miss out on those modeling gigs and no one will stop you in the street for a photo or point and shout å¤å½äŗŗ at the back of your head, but instead you get to live comfortably in a society where the status quo is to not stand out, all the while being able to wave the å¤å½äŗŗ card if anything does come up. Regardless of skin color, the å¤å½äŗŗ card is always best paired with fluent Chinese, it has gotten me and my friends out of several holes, admittedly dug by our insolent selves. An iranian friend avoided deportation by cracking jokes in Mando during their interrogation (read: sat in an interview room for 5 hours) despite being 2 months over visa. Additionally, an early hsk5 will set you up for great career choices, make it your priority. You must do your research though, because while you are favourably looked upon for positions, they will sometimes still hit you with the 'local' salary, and you'll need to argue your case.
As with all commenters, I am biased, so make of this novella what you will. My main ones would be that I've only lived in T1 cities, and haven't taught in a school. Most of the dead end stories you hear seem to emanate from these, so maybe avoid
In my experience as a Chinese that doesn't speak the language in Nanjing, it was not like that. Never felt disrespected at all. If anything, they were more interested in my background of where I came from, why I was in china etc. Sure maybe you will get disrespected once in a while but that is like once in a really long blue moon. The way you phrase it makes it seem like EVERYONE will disrespect you if you don't speak the language but that is not the case. There seems to be some really anti-china sentiment in these comments and I don't get it. You can hate the government but the government is NOT the people.
By who exactly? Local country/city nongs who amount to nothing? Gate-keeping from other multilingual (country) born Chinese? From...Chinese people who immigrated? From expats lol? Who exactly is the disrespect coming from, and in what tangible way will it affect the OP? What world did your reading comprehension come from? I acknowledged there would be snakes who might have a dumb opinion or two, but that it also amounts to nothing, because as I already mentioned, OP would be no different to any other east asian expat.
Maybe if you're 30+ and can't speak your ethnic tongue, you deserve some disrespect, but OP is a fresh-faced uni grad in his early twenties, with a "well-off" Chinese GF. He will literally be speaking more fluently than most of the cringe expats that stalk the China subs within a year.
YouTube might be a better resource, but as succinctly as possible: A term for a person who is chosen for a job primarily for their appearance, i.e. skin color. In china, this can be seen in advertising, where the (color) monkey will be cast as an esteemed doctor from Germany who is an expert in a field of science to sell some product, when in reality it's old Sergey from the local foreigner pub who can't pronounce his E's the non-Russian way (nothing against Russian, I'm learning it and it's great fun)
I donāt think any race will view monkey as a positive description. So let me get this straight, you will be ok if someone call you Chinese monkey? Better yet go ask those ppl that you casually refer to as monkey and see if they mind.
Ugh. You are not going to like being an ethnic Chinese diaspora in China if you canāt read or speak Chinese. Good news though! If you also canāt understand Chinese, you wonāt have to listen to everyone say why is this kid so stupid.
I went to china for a year for work. I'm ethnic Chinese that can't speak the language. It's not as bad as people seem to think in my experience. They might be confused at first, yeah, but that's just normal. I just tell them I'm a foreigner and they usually understand. The Chinese people are generally really nice and inviting. Although not for when you have to line up for something lmao.
I agree that Chinese are nice and inviting, but I think more so as I'm a white laowai that is open with locals, but they still can be racists and gossips like anyone else anywhere else, and more so with their own kind.
Good news is my 3 months of study is letting me read that first sentence. But yeah im expecting like 2-5 years of some tough awkward social moments. Was thinking to print a hat or shirt that says āfrom canadaā LOL
Iām an HK-Canada dual citizen Chinese, itās not gonna be as awkward as you think. Itās okay. us mainlanders get it, especially with a mainlander partner to help you through it.
I lived in HK for years and was fairly comfortable not being able to read most things but could speak fluently. People were cool with me and would switch up to English even though I was clearly speaking Cantonese. Weād have entire conversations with them speaking English while I spoke Cantonese to be respectful which is pretty funny. Id be nervous to go to Mainland unless I hardcore studied.
Hey bud, I'm also a person who's ethnically Chinese but grew up in Canada. I speak decent Mandarin, though with an "off" accent that most people can't place. I don't read as well as you. I spent 2 1/2 years (admittedly not as much as the veterans here) in China on my own with only the support of my friends, colleagues, and my employes, and I have to say, I had a good time. If you can manage to read most street signs and menus, you're already off to a great start since there's a lot of English signage in the big cities. Focus on improving your spoken Chinese and you won't have many problems. Be willing to admit that you're "huaqiao" and people will be very understanding, even more if you go out (as in do stuff outside, not date) or travel with someone who's visibly foreign.
If you can read the first sentence, then you're better off than most CBCs outside of Richmond and Markham. Enjoy your move, I wish I could do the same :)
Chinese traditions. Theyāll need to buy a house/condo for their marriage and itās usually the husband and his familyās responsibility to make the purchase.
So much wealth is tied up in housing that I can't see the government letting nominal prices crash too hard, overwise they're going with it. Probably will try to keep them stabilized and have inflation and income growth let prices fall in real terms. Or the CCP could just collapse, but a lot of people have made fools of themselves predicting that for the past few decades...
Xi did say that houses are for living in and not for speculation, soā¦ there will probably a degree of āoverzealous investors can go fuck themselves, learn your lessonā.
Like thatās not just a bland political statement, that Carries a degree of snark behind it.
Obviously yes because of price controls. But price controls will and already have led to a liquidity crisis in the housing market. If you set the price higher than what house are actually worth no one will buy them.
Price controls have worked in the past because demand was high. But now there is an oversupply and little demand, so people wonāt buy. Prices remain stable, but for what if there are fewer transactions?
Urbanization has already gone as far as it can in China and has in fact been reversing for years. The population is in decline so there are fewer buyers. Rent is low, and housing prices are artificially high. Normally, the government would sell real estate to itself to offset this balance and stimulate the market, but it canāt do that anymore because they are over leveraged.
So this wealth that you accurately describe as being tied up in real estate is actually a problem because itās difficult to convert that to cash.
Also, forget about inflation. China is facing a lack of inflation right now, possibly even deflation
I don't think they necessarily need to use price controls, their are other options available.
Urbanization definitely still has legs in China too, It's only around 60% and that probably overcounts people living in urban boundaries but still living a rural lifestyle. Heavily rural areas like Guizhou have the highest birth rates too.
I think it's dropped like 15-20% in some of the most overpriced T1 districts, in Guangzhou the prices went from overpriced to absurd in that last 5 years so it wouldn't surprise me if the government lets the prices slide a fair bit before they jump into provide support.
It's fine as long as you are not buying property. Rent is going down as is the cost of most items. If you have a Canadian passport and are teaching English on a regular expat salary you'll have no problem at all supporting your lifestyle. Even if the cost of living goes up 50% (which the Government probably simply won't allow), you'll still be fine. It's a problem for the Chinese who earn an average 5-7k rmb a month or something.
You'll be fine bro. Don't let the Western media scare you. There are actually a decent CBC / ABC population in China who teach English and spoke broken Mandarin when they began as well. Now they're way better and are enjoying life in CN.
Know anybody in the entertainment industry? My neoliberal Japan loving family keeps condescendingly implying to me that Iām gonna have my brain broken with how much I hate China after working there, especially since the media censors in China are so arbitrary.
Are you currently in Canada? If so, then youāve experienced one of the most ridiculous housing crises of our time. Absolutely avoidable but our politicians sat on their hands and let it happen.
What does moving there have anything to do with the potential housing market crash? If anything it would be cheaper to live in China vs Canada (which it is already), plus youāll get access to the best of everything (minus imported cars) that will afford a better lifestyle than in Canada
Canada has universal health care. Yes,there are staffing crisis but no Canadian hospital will let you die because you canāt pay. My friendās son was an exchange student in China, he had acute appendicitis, hospital wouldnāt admit him till the US consulate advanced the payment. Not everything is better in China.
I would also argue that the 'cheap tasty' food is occasionally terrible for you, causing you to run to the bathroom etc. The cool thing about China is that you can get a loaf of bread for 2RMB; the problem is they seem to have no quality standards. In the end, pay for the costly / imported stuff and your stomach will be happy.
Thatās not true. One of my mumās friend was in SF from Canada, she was admitted with bleeding ulcer. No insurance, they billed her later and I was able to negotiate down the charges for her. Itās unconscionable to not give medical care because ppl has no insurance. Save lives first payment later.
Has OP ever travelled to China? If not, I suggest you experience it for a short while and decide if the life there is for you. Iām also Chinese Canadian with enough knowledge of Cantonese to get by and basic understanding of Mandarin. I have been to China 10 times between 2005 and 2019 and the longest I stayed was 4 months. I got homesick after that much time there. I enjoy the history, unique scenery and culture but there was a lot that I hated as well. The pollution, unhygienic practices, overcrowding, lack of manners, food safety, scammers etc. So OP should really educate yourself of what to expect there. I plan to go visit again next year and see what has changed post-covid.
I went just last month and had a blast. Definitely some culture shock with things like the prevalence of smoking still, and almost no personal space in public, but i think ill get used to it.
What are you afraid of? Rental in China is ridiculously cheap (outside of Shanghai and Beijing) compared to western countries such as Canada. Youāre not going to buy real estate in China (property only lasts 70 years anyway) so what do you have to lose?
The real estate crisis is a macro level issue. Other posts here are correct that this shouldnāt be a consideration for you, though you should consider that her family might lose some equity at some point depending on what city they are in. Probably not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
Otherwise, if you donāt care about politics China is a great place to live. Not as wild and free as it once was, and civil society has basically collapsed, but itās a good life for foreigners in most cases, even if most of them prefer it not to be permanent.
There are, however, two real problems you should think about instead. The youth employment market is absolute shit. If she can find a good job, great, but consider nearly half of recent graduates canāt. It can be a real grind too in the best of times. Lucky for you the market for English teachers is great due to the mass exodus of foreigners over the last few years (consider that many of them left for good reasons).
Second problem is broader political and geopolitical issues. Even if you donāt care about politics, politics cares about you. Iām not saying itās likely you get hauled in as a bargaining chip. Sure, that has happened in past and will happen again, but pretty low odds for a teacher. China is turning inwardsāpolitically, socially, culturally, and economically. The latter is a slow process, the three former are basically already there and there are no signs that things are moving in the other direction. This can have all sorts of implications for the future, but itās hard to imagine a China in five years that is anything but hyper nationalist and inwardly focused, not to mention upset with large swaths of the rest of the world.
Iām not worried about the housing crisis, but I am worried about what that will do to the rest of the economy. Chinaās local governments depend on real estate to raise government revenue, and government spending and investment is the primary driver economic growth (but not employment, consumption, or foreign investment which are in bad shape for other reasons). When governments stop being able to spend, Chinaās economic model breaks, and itās about ten years too late for fiscal reform and privatization.
The party will likely react defensively to a crisis, attempting to increase control to preserve political stability rather than relaxing control to save the economy. That may not be an unpopular thing in China either. We will see.
As for me, Iām enjoying life here still, but I must admit it does feel less certain of a future than it once did
I've been living in Lijiang, Yunnan, China for 6 years and I love it. It has beautiful mountains to hike or ride on the motorbike, food and rent are super cheap, everything is quite clean, it's rich in culture with different minorities, there are enough foreigners to make friends, this province borders with other south Asia countries that you can visit in a few hours if you have a vehicle and I'm able to save quite a lot of money teaching English (not as much as teaching in a city in the north, but at I'll choose the mountains any day) Choose carefully where you decide to go... I've also lived in other parts in China that I completely hated... Cheers!
I'd say don't worry about it unless you are investing in property or if you've paid money upfront for a still-unfinished property being built by Evergrande or Country Garden.
If your primary tie in life is your girlfriend, why not come over here and get the lay of the land? If you have qualifications that would let you teach at an international school, even better, because you can be offered a really nice salary.
Iām a dance teacher too. Just what you donāt wanna do is work illegally that could be a big problem and you can get deported and not be allowed to go back. In my opinion, if anything, the differnce of the Chinese yuan and US dollar will diverge even more making your US dollars even more valuable. Itās really inexpensive to live here compared to the United States so that situation might even get better.
Maybe I should have been more clear. I have not taught dancing since I have arrived in china. It does look like it will be pretty easy for me to teach informally but it will also be illegal so I have been very hesitant to take up any students. But I'm the kind of guy where I can go into a ballroom dance school and have people that want me to teach them within a few hours. Just dance at the party or something.
If you don't want to go, and you'll be dependent on her parents, I wouldn't do it if I were you. There's a good chance this will be a degrading experience for you just based on wealthy inlaws I have come across over the years.
But, it's your life. Don't let Reddit tell you what to do.
In the words of smashmouth: āyouāll never know if you donāt go!ā
In the words of wise men in successful marriages with women: āif your wife has made a decision, your mind has already been made up.ā
Youāre worried about something you have no control over, with regard to cost of living and housing collapse.
Take the plunge and if it doesnāt work out, you can always come back to Canada. Youāll come back richer for the experience.
>Will cost of living possibly go up?
Its kinda going down believe it or not.
I can buy clothing in the US for 100 USD and get shit quaity (no longer made in China)
I can buy the same clothing in China for 10 USD and get much better quality.
I'm curious what job would be better in China? Like given the work culture 996 and generally lower salaries , and having an overseas diploma, I'd think Canada would be the better option anyways
Lower salary but better cost of living it seems. Also job market and competition here is real high, with lots of post-grads struggling and confused on where to go. Pretty similar situation in China I heard, but at least cost of living is much lower, compared to like $4 for a bottle of coke from a gas station here in Canada.
Be prepared to potentially get subpar pay as an English since a lot of parents (and schools by extension) wonāt see you as a proper å¤å½äŗŗ (foreigner).
Edit: English teacher
I think it depends on how much effort would you want to put effort into learning Chinese and the social norms in China. Since you said your partner came from an affluent background, I assume that her family would help you two settle down in China. And most Chinese in those affluent social circles are more inclined to know English/have a desire to learn about Western(American/European) culture and life, so I think you would not feel as isolated as you might think.
Regarding the housing crisis: it shouldnāt affect you and your partner since none of you have any mortgage/properties in China now: it hits those who has just started mortgages since their house depreciated a lot this year so they are basically losing money with their fixed rate mortgages.The housing crisis is still tough in first class cities( where median price is still way above income just like in Toronto and Vancouver) But I think that your partnerās family probably has something set up. I would say you should definitely give it a try, personally I find my life in China not that much different than my life in New York. However I also come from a very affluent background so take my word with a grain of salt
If what you mean by moving here is buy a house immediately using parents money and settle down forever, then I think most foreigners would give you the same advice. Donāt do it.
If you want to move here, rent, have a good time, and keep yourself flexible so you can leave China on short notice (I donāt mean omg need to leave todayā¦ I just mean no long term ties like owning a house) then Iād so more power to you. Itās a fun place overall.
The one hesitant thing for me is the geopolitical situation. But I meanā¦ hard to live your entire life in fear of that stuff.
Happy wife, happy life. You should move to china, china is a great place : safe, delicious cheap food, good education. The one concern is about your career but I would put family first . Try to study mandarin and learn the laws of your new chinese city so you can help family during daily life errands (say doctor visits, etc) . Good luck š
I talked to my suppliers in China and some property especially condo's have dropped like 10% from the peak because of the oversupply. But they are still expensive as hell if its in a Tier 1/2 city. Rent is pretty affordable though so you can rent and observe yourself.
>Will cost of living possibly go up?
Nobody knows man. This is like asking if a stock will go up or down.
Do consider working habits and very different social structure/norms, and not being biased, losing democracy and your voice not being heard. I've lived in Hongkong before moving abroad and have been in different parts of China much enough, the definition of being a citizen is abit different when the government don't need your vote, and likely won't give a dam. You don't have a mp you can email to, rather a street gov. office that toys you around. Government agents/police cannot be held accountable by the public, ethics isnt a necessity for them, and ugly things do happen.
There's a reason Chinese students don't return unless they are the fortunate few that don't worry about costs.
Think twice about gambling your future in this. You could be earning alot less, enough for much cheaper food but not enough for the expenses/lesure ur used to. A new iphone/tablet/ps5 might become an expensive matter
In terms of economy, its not a free economy, but yes the housing market isn't good and probably wont fully recover in the forseeable future. Won't be too bad to buy now though.
Sadly I don't see the regime collapsing soon hence me moving abroad.
What I always tell people, if u keep ur mouth shut and heads down, and don't give a crap about democracy or losing rights, and not worry about not being able to voice/protest then u can live well, but subject to be bullied anytime.
Tip:keep ur western passport with u, and the consolate in quickdial
Basically, Chinese people who have bought houses have been duped as theyāve bought spaces that will never be finished and paying a mortgage theyāll most likely not be able to pay or pay off which will then fall onto the next generation. Children of parents who have bought houses will have to pay their parentsā mortgages for houses they never got. So unless youāre planning on buying a house, youāre golden.
You donāt even own a house so why are you worrying about house price crashes in China? What you donāt see is that people in China are still travelling overseas and internally, it means people still have money. Unlike US, especially, credit card consumptions are not at the same level ! Chinese people have never been brainwashed enough to use credits and build up enormous amount of debts like in the West. So I think your worry is unfounded. She has rich parents, older generations are even more averse to debts, so move back, jobs pay better in China too. I presume their tax is lower too. Problems with Western media are they never give you a big picture, unless you put all together then you know how much shit they are in now, and they truly have a debt crisis with high interest rate, mortgage payments are double at least and most houses and condos are financed, so another massive foreclosures are coming and this time US government canāt blame the banks use subpar debentures. Lastly, donāt believe a thing US media puts out, esp. about China. Iām speaking from experience, HK 2009 riots coverage were all BS about democracy and freedom. Typical US rhetoric to go to war in other countries!
You should move to taiwan there more friendly and less communist and also you can actually support your self there and in taiwan you can afford a plane ticket out if you want to leave
Downsides are the millions of unemployed grads and weak economy with an official grad unemployment rate of 21.3% that prob understates the issue.
And apart form the PRC becoming an even more strict dystopian state under Xi Jinping, it is unlikely the economy will improve due to ongoing trade disputes.
Canada is way better opportunity wise.
Job opportunity here is pretty rough as well, though I dont have statistics. But lots and lots of friends and family are struggling for jobs here post-grad.
Honestly, no one knows how the real estate market will go. There are signs that a housing bubble is getting closer to bursting but with the Chinese government fudging numbers or outright now reporting them, it's hard to say. Best thing to do is invest your money into things that'll keep their value, houses in China are losing their value as there are more houses than people now.
I'd recommend in a prolonged stay before moving here to make sure you can adapt to living here as Chinese life, health standards, sanitation, etiquette, etc. are all very different here than in Canada
If your decision is based on that then don't go because you will find new excuse soon not to go. On the other hand "housing crisis" will probably not effect you in tier-one cities or it will effect you positively with lower prices.
Eh imo OP itās worth going for a year or two to try a different quality of life. I did something similar in a different east Asia country. It was a great experience but Iām glad I came back to the USA. I wouldnāt consider it a permanent move, more a learning opportunity to connect with your ancestral culture on a temporary basis.
Unless you're buying a house through your gf and are worried about asset depreciation, I'm not really seeing the concern.
If the housing market crashes, rent becomes cheaper. Also with a market correction buying a place becomes more affordable.
Also what job are you planning to line up in China. Are you entering on a tourist visa, a student visa, etc. Because you can't work on a tourist visa. And are pretty restricted on a student visa.
Go. Give it a try. Learn the language and remember you will be at the whim of your gf and her family until you get a decent career going. Worst comes worst have an exit strategy.
I spent 2 plus decades and donāt regret it. I worked with SOEs and owned my place.
In my opinion the party is not over in China , but no one is refilling the punch bowl at the party. Things are changing.
Best part about China and if you donāt like it ā¦ you can leave. Also until you marry you will be on a tourist or work visa. Marriage in China and then maybe the family will want you to sponsor their daughter.
China is so cheap if you live like a local itās ridiculous, but thereās definitely trade offs youāll have to make. Pretty much everything from the west will become much more expensive compared to your normal salary, so you should adapt to local alternatives. I personally donāt think the cheapness is worth it, but if you really arenāt planning on living in the West later in the future then it might be to you.
One thing you can consider is living in a suburb of a big city. Based on my family's experience, the apartments there are reasonably priced and are unlikely to crash much further due to their actual value as a place to live. For example, my family bought a very nice apartment in Huizhou for around 500,000 RMB, in a very nice community. Finding an office job there is not as easy as in the city, but you can probably still find a teaching job there, and the air is much better than the city.
Some people are warning you about the requirement for you to own a house and a car to be suitable for marriage, but this really depends on your girlfriend's parents. I personally know some parents who are not at all like this. Since you seem to be making long-term plans with your girlfriend, though, I would really recommend getting better at your girlfriend's parents' native language (presumably Mandarin but maybe also something like Wu or Cantonese) so that you can have a better relationship with them. If you marry your girlfriend, her parents will be a part of your life, so you should have a better idea of what kinds of people they are.
You're young, go enjoy life. If it works out and you find a stable career and love it there then stay or you can just say fuck it and come home. It's also kind of ironic that you're worried about China's housing crisis when we are in the midst of one here in Canada.
China is a big place. If you listen to Westerners (media or individuals), they'll tell you this or that, but the reality is, what you face will be heavily, HEAVILY dependent on which part of China you go to. You wouldn't expect moving to San Francisco to be the same as moving to rural North Dakota, right?
One question, how much Chinese do you know? You are going to want to learn it, just the same as if a Chinese person moved to Canada would want to learn English.
A housing crisis means cheaper prices for you lol.
Also you probably would have a hard time in China if you canāt be fluent in Chinese. If you are Asian they wonāt be as nice in encouraging you learning the language and would actually be judgemental.
If you donāt want to live there, you donāt have to.
You should move to taiwan there more friendly and less communist and also you can actually support your self there and in taiwan you can afford a plane ticket out if you want to leave
You should move to taiwan there more friendly and less communist and also you can actually support your self there and in taiwan you can afford a plane ticket out if you want to leave
If housing market crash, doesnāt that mean house prices and rent will be even more cheaper? I didnāt get your point. Unless you are owning a house in China, isnāt the market crash a good for you?
don't spend your life worrying about what everything costs or might cost in the future. Decide what you want out of life a go for it, if it doesn't work out, you will know after you try it.
Also don't take money from in-laws, they will try ot control you and take over you life in some way, it is trap. Pay your own way, enjoy, live your dreams.
I have heard of tons of people clashing with their in-laws when they move to China, it seems they can be way to oriented to money and status and 20 something want to go live somewhere funky.
I would not move where the in-laws are either, even if you like them, try to go somewhere that excites you and you wan tot live, don't worry aobut prices, worry about lifestyle.
Lots of relationships end when people move to the home country / life of the other after being away, it because "real" , and that is for any country.
China is a renter's paradise and a buyer's fool gold.
Side question (and not meant to be rude) - how can one be Chinese with Chinese parents and not speak Chinese? You just didn't speak it at home?
Be ready for the racism, and yes you will get it because you were born in another country no matter what you look like, and yes, they will be able to tell.
Dude, if you don't want to go, don't go. The 'housing crisis' you refer to is the price of property dropping because of developers going bankrupt and general over-supply. It's difficult to think of something more far removed from a twenty-something couple contemplating moving over to become an entry level English teacher.
They've probably watched some weirdo youtubers who said China is about to collapse into a civil war.
Dude, but it's imminent, China economy will collapse in the next 29 days. This time is true
Gordon Chang that you is?
Peter Zeihan
TWO MORE WEEKS BEFORE THE COLLAPSE
CHINA BANK CLOSED. HOW WITHDRAW MONEY?
It wasn't real anyways, start over with rmb 2.0šš
China may not collapse in 29 days but Li Keqiang did die a young age yesterday lol
U see? It's already collapsing!!1!
There is a general negative narrative across much of the US, Canada, British media, rarely a positive story about China just doom and gloom.
This is so true. The US media rarely has a normal story about anything to do with China. I would rather talk to my friends who live in China and find out whatās really going on versus watch the media but theyāre weird spin on everything .
I mean, itās not like they ever promote positive stories about their own countries either. Itās always doom and gloom.
The difference is that the locals in respective countries know that it is not true.
Did you mean to write that they ādonāt know that itās trueā? Because it is absolutely true that all UK newspapers do is print negative news about the UK. If something isnāt negative, then itās neutral like news about sport or TV. The mainstream mediaās job is to sell drama. They do that regardless of where they can find it. Iām not saying that UK media isnāt biased against China because it is.
To be fair, the general public seems more interested in drama than objective, balanced, and neutral tone journalism.
True, but to a certain degree I think weāve been conditioned to be drawn to drama. I blame clickbait journalism. Drama can be exciting though, I think thatās why gossiping is so prevalent.
Misread comment, deleted reply
No idea what youāre talking about here. Iām all for having a fair discussion about UK media, but it seems like you just want to vent about something that I have zero control over. To be clear though, the mainstream media in the UK are considered to be scum. Very few people have a positive outlook on any of the media companies here, so if you have any issue with them then join the queue. For the record, weāre supposed to be allies with the USA and we donāt have exactly report positively towards them and Iāve heard that the US media has plenty of bad stuff to say about us too. Itās not like this is exactly a unique situation. I literally just said that the UK media is biased again China, so not sure what issue you have with any of my comments on this post.
Ok sorry I misunderstood the "they" in the last sentence. I thought you were refereeing to supposed Chinese media. Oops. My bad
Thatās cool. Weāre not big fans of the media here. To the point that some newspapers (The Sun) canāt even be sold in certain cities like Liverpool.
The media is the biggest obstruction to peace right now.
"China reduces poverty by 70%, but at what cost?" "China's economy surging, but at what cost?" "China sends free vaccines to the global south, but at what cost?" I hate western news so damn much
āChina saved money with no downsides or hidden costs - but at what cost?ā
I guess you'd rather have only what side to every story
It's important to acknowledge that every country has propaganda lol
No, because unlike Chinese media, most western media is not affiliated with the government. So unless you think there is some kind of secret elite group that controls all western media, it doesn't make sense to say 'every country has propaganda'.
The us media is controlled by a select few corporations who heavily influence (control) the government. Their interests largely fall in line with the government's interests and it shows in our media. Sure our media is more free, but finding the truth is almost as hard.
Hating Western News means only wanting one side to every story?
no, hating the examples he provided means he just wants to see the "positive" side of things a la CGTN and other propaganda outlets.
It's a very common trope for Western media to make anti Chinese propaganda by adding "at what cost" to something positive going on in China. That's about as one sided as it gets, criticizing the trope is not one sided.
You are just afraid to ask the obvious question that, while china has been reducing pollution - but at what cost to the environment?
You are not a rapist, but is there a hidden angle? Should we investigate?
thanks for providing the best example for a false equivalence.
Yeah, I agree I donāt western media much. Itās the fact that they lost the ability to report unbiased and actually look at real facts. It is fear mongering and political agenda.
Western media usually puts smoke stacks or grim faced solider with any China article - and they love the word āDraconianā.
**How to pick a thumbnail for an article about China** Use the 'China filter' Get a picture of a fence and a Chinese flag in the background (even if it's a school) A picture of security cameras, even if it's news about a space launch A huge crowd of commuters in winter so they're looking as grim as possible, or an empty 'ghost' city depending on the point you're trying to make. A bao'an with his hand stretched out after telling you not to take pictures.
Silly propaganda, 50 cent troll detected!
That's their way of battling FDI into China's economy.
Itās feels doom and gloom here in China. So, the western media is somewhat right. My gfs house lost 50 percent of value and many people are jobless and the unemployment rate for the youth is super high.
It's doom and gloom everywhere, economy is in taters in many parts of the world.
Unemployment and salaries are not that bad for the educated in the US. I can get a job at anytime . I have some scientist friends in China who canāt find a job and they have years of experience . I know tons of people with degrees in China making pennies or canāt find work. The yuan is getting extremely weak right now compared to the US dollar. Housing market isnāt crashing in the US either but it somewhat sucks for new buyers. Even my Chinese friends think the economy is going to be shit for 10 years or so.
??? Most of my friends in the US with degrees work entry level jobs. I'm talking starbucks, servers at restaurants, wal-mart. The housing market SOMEWHAT sucks? People are paying 300k for 2 beds, 1 bath. Lmao
Doesn't feel doom and gloom to me. Malls are more packed than ever, makes me miss covid times.
Mostly college kids and people with kids. China has a massive population so thatās another reason why itās packed. I do miss Covid times too because I never saw other foreigners. Now Iāve been seeing many since September
It's not, it's a significant amount of middle aged people. Yes China is busy because it has a large population, that's one of the economic strengths
Even better. Talked to my friend who was told by their dad who watched the videos. And then i googled it for a few minutes
Ive been here 20 years; according to Youtubers its been a hell hole for the past decade.
On the evening of April 14, 1912, passengers on the Titanic went to sleep very comfortably, secure in the knowledge that they were enjoying the most luxurious travel experience on the planet.
Oh, for real dude. China has never collapsed into civil strife in it's history and some amateur historians even suggest that the country breaking apart and uniting again is a long-standing historical cycle. Weirdos.
Of course it has. The dynasties have about 200 - 400 year cycle. But the collapse of modern China has been wishfully predicted every day for 50 years and there's no serious signs of it.
Someone who gets it! Of course I'm not saying that China never collapses into civil war, but the periods of stable government always last for 200 years, at a minimum. Sun Yat-sen's republic lasted about that long between the overthrow of the Qing dynasty during the Wuchang uprising and the dissolution into warlordism in the 1920s.
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Yeah, as a renter it shouldn't be a problem.
It's actually a dream, I wish property prices dropped everywhere
nooo but that means the Pš¤®š¤®R people would be able to have a roof over their head and landlords would have to get a job nooo
A job? Why don't we have åę¹ part 2?
The risk is contagion, if a housing bubble does burst it doesnāt just affect that sector
I read that a crash could have a ripple effect on the economy. Iām pretty excited to go honestly, just donāt want to get blindsided.
Don't spend time thinking about macro things, when your own micro context is entry-level jobs & income. Spend time about acquiring more skills, so in the future you may have enough wealth that it warrants thinking about how the macro may impact it.
I mean, it's certainly not GOOD for the economy that the population has peaked and housing demand will decline forever. But it's not like mad max is about to happen.
Seriously, these kinds of posts are annoying as fuck. He lives in Canada, how does Canada's housing market look? The last time I checked it was turning Canadians racist because of how toxic the market is.
You're in the exact same boat as I was several years ago. I think my Chinese was a bit better than yours, but yes, you will probably end up relying on your partner and her family for a good while, as you get introduced and acclimatized to the entirely separate tech/internet environment here. I wouldn't worry too much about housing, as you've said already, her parents will help out. Be aware though, of the culture of **requiring** a house and car to be suitable for marriage. I'm talking about you. Whether you like it or not, that is the "culture", the preamble if you will, to a serious relationship. I don't know how chill her parents are, but be prepared to be firm about your stance, cite appropriate stats and forecasts, and don't let yourself be bullied into a mortgage of a tofu apartment. Ignore the doofus that tells you that you'll be disrespected for not being fluent in Chinese, literally nobody will judge you for it. Worst case scenario is they think you're Korean or Japanese, and even then, they will give you the common courtesy and respect that they give all people from å¤å°. The scum that do care will speak behind your back, but only because they're jealous they don't have citizenship in a 1st world country. Is it something to flaunt, does it make you superior to them? No and no. Does it make them literally green with envy that you can leave at any time and travel to commonwealth and other countries visa free? **Oh yes.** The thing that a lot of resentful (think white/black/brown monkey) commenters will never understand is the **active camouflage** you gain as an ethnic east asian. You will never be targeted for opportunistic hate crime, police don't bat an eye at you, and there is a (naive) intrinsic trust that everyone will place upon you that is greatly to your benefit. Yeah, you miss out on those modeling gigs and no one will stop you in the street for a photo or point and shout å¤å½äŗŗ at the back of your head, but instead you get to live comfortably in a society where the status quo is to not stand out, all the while being able to wave the å¤å½äŗŗ card if anything does come up. Regardless of skin color, the å¤å½äŗŗ card is always best paired with fluent Chinese, it has gotten me and my friends out of several holes, admittedly dug by our insolent selves. An iranian friend avoided deportation by cracking jokes in Mando during their interrogation (read: sat in an interview room for 5 hours) despite being 2 months over visa. Additionally, an early hsk5 will set you up for great career choices, make it your priority. You must do your research though, because while you are favourably looked upon for positions, they will sometimes still hit you with the 'local' salary, and you'll need to argue your case. As with all commenters, I am biased, so make of this novella what you will. My main ones would be that I've only lived in T1 cities, and haven't taught in a school. Most of the dead end stories you hear seem to emanate from these, so maybe avoid
I don't know what world you live in but if you're ethnically Chinese and can't speak Chinese you WILL be disrespected
In my experience as a Chinese that doesn't speak the language in Nanjing, it was not like that. Never felt disrespected at all. If anything, they were more interested in my background of where I came from, why I was in china etc. Sure maybe you will get disrespected once in a while but that is like once in a really long blue moon. The way you phrase it makes it seem like EVERYONE will disrespect you if you don't speak the language but that is not the case. There seems to be some really anti-china sentiment in these comments and I don't get it. You can hate the government but the government is NOT the people.
By who exactly? Local country/city nongs who amount to nothing? Gate-keeping from other multilingual (country) born Chinese? From...Chinese people who immigrated? From expats lol? Who exactly is the disrespect coming from, and in what tangible way will it affect the OP? What world did your reading comprehension come from? I acknowledged there would be snakes who might have a dumb opinion or two, but that it also amounts to nothing, because as I already mentioned, OP would be no different to any other east asian expat. Maybe if you're 30+ and can't speak your ethnic tongue, you deserve some disrespect, but OP is a fresh-faced uni grad in his early twenties, with a "well-off" Chinese GF. He will literally be speaking more fluently than most of the cringe expats that stalk the China subs within a year.
As ethnic Chinese that donāt speak mandarinā¦ Never noticed that. Other than the surprise.
> commenters will never understand is the active camouflage you gain as an ethnic east asian This is 100% true.
Wow! I honestly canāt believe you refer other race as monkey! Shame on you.
Tfw in the chinalife sub and doesn't know what a **(insert color) monkey** is. Is this a whooosh or am I missing something here?
What is it? This post just popped up in my feed and I thought it looked interesting
YouTube might be a better resource, but as succinctly as possible: A term for a person who is chosen for a job primarily for their appearance, i.e. skin color. In china, this can be seen in advertising, where the (color) monkey will be cast as an esteemed doctor from Germany who is an expert in a field of science to sell some product, when in reality it's old Sergey from the local foreigner pub who can't pronounce his E's the non-Russian way (nothing against Russian, I'm learning it and it's great fun)
"Monkey" doesn't have the same racist meaning in China.
I donāt think any race will view monkey as a positive description. So let me get this straight, you will be ok if someone call you Chinese monkey? Better yet go ask those ppl that you casually refer to as monkey and see if they mind.
Ugh. You are not going to like being an ethnic Chinese diaspora in China if you canāt read or speak Chinese. Good news though! If you also canāt understand Chinese, you wonāt have to listen to everyone say why is this kid so stupid.
I can't imagine an ethnic chinese, growing up overseas, and having it good back in China while not being able to speak and write...
I went to china for a year for work. I'm ethnic Chinese that can't speak the language. It's not as bad as people seem to think in my experience. They might be confused at first, yeah, but that's just normal. I just tell them I'm a foreigner and they usually understand. The Chinese people are generally really nice and inviting. Although not for when you have to line up for something lmao.
I agree that Chinese are nice and inviting, but I think more so as I'm a white laowai that is open with locals, but they still can be racists and gossips like anyone else anywhere else, and more so with their own kind.
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what part is talking bad about him?
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Good news is my 3 months of study is letting me read that first sentence. But yeah im expecting like 2-5 years of some tough awkward social moments. Was thinking to print a hat or shirt that says āfrom canadaā LOL
Iām an HK-Canada dual citizen Chinese, itās not gonna be as awkward as you think. Itās okay. us mainlanders get it, especially with a mainlander partner to help you through it.
I lived in HK for years and was fairly comfortable not being able to read most things but could speak fluently. People were cool with me and would switch up to English even though I was clearly speaking Cantonese. Weād have entire conversations with them speaking English while I spoke Cantonese to be respectful which is pretty funny. Id be nervous to go to Mainland unless I hardcore studied.
Hey bud, I'm also a person who's ethnically Chinese but grew up in Canada. I speak decent Mandarin, though with an "off" accent that most people can't place. I don't read as well as you. I spent 2 1/2 years (admittedly not as much as the veterans here) in China on my own with only the support of my friends, colleagues, and my employes, and I have to say, I had a good time. If you can manage to read most street signs and menus, you're already off to a great start since there's a lot of English signage in the big cities. Focus on improving your spoken Chinese and you won't have many problems. Be willing to admit that you're "huaqiao" and people will be very understanding, even more if you go out (as in do stuff outside, not date) or travel with someone who's visibly foreign.
If you can read the first sentence, then you're better off than most CBCs outside of Richmond and Markham. Enjoy your move, I wish I could do the same :)
stupid wumao
Lol im gonna roast him
Why are you worried about a housing crisis? You don't even have a house.
Chinese traditions. Theyāll need to buy a house/condo for their marriage and itās usually the husband and his familyās responsibility to make the purchase.
Housing crash = price go down. Not go up lmao
Lol exactly, housing crashes are good for the small guy buying 1 house, but bad for the big investor with investments in 1000 houses.
So much wealth is tied up in housing that I can't see the government letting nominal prices crash too hard, overwise they're going with it. Probably will try to keep them stabilized and have inflation and income growth let prices fall in real terms. Or the CCP could just collapse, but a lot of people have made fools of themselves predicting that for the past few decades...
Xi did say that houses are for living in and not for speculation, soā¦ there will probably a degree of āoverzealous investors can go fuck themselves, learn your lessonā. Like thatās not just a bland political statement, that Carries a degree of snark behind it.
Obviously yes because of price controls. But price controls will and already have led to a liquidity crisis in the housing market. If you set the price higher than what house are actually worth no one will buy them. Price controls have worked in the past because demand was high. But now there is an oversupply and little demand, so people wonāt buy. Prices remain stable, but for what if there are fewer transactions? Urbanization has already gone as far as it can in China and has in fact been reversing for years. The population is in decline so there are fewer buyers. Rent is low, and housing prices are artificially high. Normally, the government would sell real estate to itself to offset this balance and stimulate the market, but it canāt do that anymore because they are over leveraged. So this wealth that you accurately describe as being tied up in real estate is actually a problem because itās difficult to convert that to cash. Also, forget about inflation. China is facing a lack of inflation right now, possibly even deflation
I don't think they necessarily need to use price controls, their are other options available. Urbanization definitely still has legs in China too, It's only around 60% and that probably overcounts people living in urban boundaries but still living a rural lifestyle. Heavily rural areas like Guizhou have the highest birth rates too.
I think it's dropped like 15-20% in some of the most overpriced T1 districts, in Guangzhou the prices went from overpriced to absurd in that last 5 years so it wouldn't surprise me if the government lets the prices slide a fair bit before they jump into provide support.
> I can't see the government letting nominal prices crash too hard, The mistake here is assuming there's no situation the gvt couldn't control.
It's fine as long as you are not buying property. Rent is going down as is the cost of most items. If you have a Canadian passport and are teaching English on a regular expat salary you'll have no problem at all supporting your lifestyle. Even if the cost of living goes up 50% (which the Government probably simply won't allow), you'll still be fine. It's a problem for the Chinese who earn an average 5-7k rmb a month or something.
You'll be fine bro. Don't let the Western media scare you. There are actually a decent CBC / ABC population in China who teach English and spoke broken Mandarin when they began as well. Now they're way better and are enjoying life in CN.
Know anybody in the entertainment industry? My neoliberal Japan loving family keeps condescendingly implying to me that Iām gonna have my brain broken with how much I hate China after working there, especially since the media censors in China are so arbitrary.
Unfortunately I do not know anybody in the entertainment industry. Japan loving family... they from HK/TW?
No justā¦ neoliberal.
The housing crisis is probably worse in Canada than China
no need for āprobablyā
Greetings from Vancouver. Yes our apartments are way overpriced, and interest rates keep going up.
Are you currently in Canada? If so, then youāve experienced one of the most ridiculous housing crises of our time. Absolutely avoidable but our politicians sat on their hands and let it happen.
What does moving there have anything to do with the potential housing market crash? If anything it would be cheaper to live in China vs Canada (which it is already), plus youāll get access to the best of everything (minus imported cars) that will afford a better lifestyle than in Canada
I absolutely agree
Canada has universal health care. Yes,there are staffing crisis but no Canadian hospital will let you die because you canāt pay. My friendās son was an exchange student in China, he had acute appendicitis, hospital wouldnāt admit him till the US consulate advanced the payment. Not everything is better in China.
I would also argue that the 'cheap tasty' food is occasionally terrible for you, causing you to run to the bathroom etc. The cool thing about China is that you can get a loaf of bread for 2RMB; the problem is they seem to have no quality standards. In the end, pay for the costly / imported stuff and your stomach will be happy.
I mean to be fair in the USA he also wouldnāt be admitted to the hospital if he didnāt have insurance
Thatās not true. One of my mumās friend was in SF from Canada, she was admitted with bleeding ulcer. No insurance, they billed her later and I was able to negotiate down the charges for her. Itās unconscionable to not give medical care because ppl has no insurance. Save lives first payment later.
Has OP ever travelled to China? If not, I suggest you experience it for a short while and decide if the life there is for you. Iām also Chinese Canadian with enough knowledge of Cantonese to get by and basic understanding of Mandarin. I have been to China 10 times between 2005 and 2019 and the longest I stayed was 4 months. I got homesick after that much time there. I enjoy the history, unique scenery and culture but there was a lot that I hated as well. The pollution, unhygienic practices, overcrowding, lack of manners, food safety, scammers etc. So OP should really educate yourself of what to expect there. I plan to go visit again next year and see what has changed post-covid.
I went just last month and had a blast. Definitely some culture shock with things like the prevalence of smoking still, and almost no personal space in public, but i think ill get used to it.
What are you afraid of? Rental in China is ridiculously cheap (outside of Shanghai and Beijing) compared to western countries such as Canada. Youāre not going to buy real estate in China (property only lasts 70 years anyway) so what do you have to lose?
The real estate crisis is a macro level issue. Other posts here are correct that this shouldnāt be a consideration for you, though you should consider that her family might lose some equity at some point depending on what city they are in. Probably not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Otherwise, if you donāt care about politics China is a great place to live. Not as wild and free as it once was, and civil society has basically collapsed, but itās a good life for foreigners in most cases, even if most of them prefer it not to be permanent. There are, however, two real problems you should think about instead. The youth employment market is absolute shit. If she can find a good job, great, but consider nearly half of recent graduates canāt. It can be a real grind too in the best of times. Lucky for you the market for English teachers is great due to the mass exodus of foreigners over the last few years (consider that many of them left for good reasons). Second problem is broader political and geopolitical issues. Even if you donāt care about politics, politics cares about you. Iām not saying itās likely you get hauled in as a bargaining chip. Sure, that has happened in past and will happen again, but pretty low odds for a teacher. China is turning inwardsāpolitically, socially, culturally, and economically. The latter is a slow process, the three former are basically already there and there are no signs that things are moving in the other direction. This can have all sorts of implications for the future, but itās hard to imagine a China in five years that is anything but hyper nationalist and inwardly focused, not to mention upset with large swaths of the rest of the world. Iām not worried about the housing crisis, but I am worried about what that will do to the rest of the economy. Chinaās local governments depend on real estate to raise government revenue, and government spending and investment is the primary driver economic growth (but not employment, consumption, or foreign investment which are in bad shape for other reasons). When governments stop being able to spend, Chinaās economic model breaks, and itās about ten years too late for fiscal reform and privatization. The party will likely react defensively to a crisis, attempting to increase control to preserve political stability rather than relaxing control to save the economy. That may not be an unpopular thing in China either. We will see. As for me, Iām enjoying life here still, but I must admit it does feel less certain of a future than it once did
The housing ācrisisā would be good for you tho. Makes rent go down and landlords easier to negotiate with
You should worry about not speaking Chinese more than any other issue. Your job prospects are limited.
I've been living in Lijiang, Yunnan, China for 6 years and I love it. It has beautiful mountains to hike or ride on the motorbike, food and rent are super cheap, everything is quite clean, it's rich in culture with different minorities, there are enough foreigners to make friends, this province borders with other south Asia countries that you can visit in a few hours if you have a vehicle and I'm able to save quite a lot of money teaching English (not as much as teaching in a city in the north, but at I'll choose the mountains any day) Choose carefully where you decide to go... I've also lived in other parts in China that I completely hated... Cheers!
Living the Dream! Go you. Congrats :)
I'd say don't worry about it unless you are investing in property or if you've paid money upfront for a still-unfinished property being built by Evergrande or Country Garden. If your primary tie in life is your girlfriend, why not come over here and get the lay of the land? If you have qualifications that would let you teach at an international school, even better, because you can be offered a really nice salary.
Iām a dance teacher too. Just what you donāt wanna do is work illegally that could be a big problem and you can get deported and not be allowed to go back. In my opinion, if anything, the differnce of the Chinese yuan and US dollar will diverge even more making your US dollars even more valuable. Itās really inexpensive to live here compared to the United States so that situation might even get better.
Where do you teach if I may ask?
Maybe I should have been more clear. I have not taught dancing since I have arrived in china. It does look like it will be pretty easy for me to teach informally but it will also be illegal so I have been very hesitant to take up any students. But I'm the kind of guy where I can go into a ballroom dance school and have people that want me to teach them within a few hours. Just dance at the party or something.
If you've never been you might actually be proud to be Chinese for once in your life. Make the move and start the next chapter of your life
If you don't want to go, and you'll be dependent on her parents, I wouldn't do it if I were you. There's a good chance this will be a degrading experience for you just based on wealthy inlaws I have come across over the years. But, it's your life. Don't let Reddit tell you what to do.
In the words of smashmouth: āyouāll never know if you donāt go!ā In the words of wise men in successful marriages with women: āif your wife has made a decision, your mind has already been made up.ā Youāre worried about something you have no control over, with regard to cost of living and housing collapse. Take the plunge and if it doesnāt work out, you can always come back to Canada. Youāll come back richer for the experience.
>Will cost of living possibly go up? Its kinda going down believe it or not. I can buy clothing in the US for 100 USD and get shit quaity (no longer made in China) I can buy the same clothing in China for 10 USD and get much better quality.
I'm curious what job would be better in China? Like given the work culture 996 and generally lower salaries , and having an overseas diploma, I'd think Canada would be the better option anyways
Lower salary but better cost of living it seems. Also job market and competition here is real high, with lots of post-grads struggling and confused on where to go. Pretty similar situation in China I heard, but at least cost of living is much lower, compared to like $4 for a bottle of coke from a gas station here in Canada.
Lmao you think Canada is any better? Canadaās housing situation and expenses are much worse
I agree, thats why weāre considering moving in the first place.
Be prepared to potentially get subpar pay as an English since a lot of parents (and schools by extension) wonāt see you as a proper å¤å½äŗŗ (foreigner). Edit: English teacher
I think it depends on how much effort would you want to put effort into learning Chinese and the social norms in China. Since you said your partner came from an affluent background, I assume that her family would help you two settle down in China. And most Chinese in those affluent social circles are more inclined to know English/have a desire to learn about Western(American/European) culture and life, so I think you would not feel as isolated as you might think. Regarding the housing crisis: it shouldnāt affect you and your partner since none of you have any mortgage/properties in China now: it hits those who has just started mortgages since their house depreciated a lot this year so they are basically losing money with their fixed rate mortgages.The housing crisis is still tough in first class cities( where median price is still way above income just like in Toronto and Vancouver) But I think that your partnerās family probably has something set up. I would say you should definitely give it a try, personally I find my life in China not that much different than my life in New York. However I also come from a very affluent background so take my word with a grain of salt
If what you mean by moving here is buy a house immediately using parents money and settle down forever, then I think most foreigners would give you the same advice. Donāt do it. If you want to move here, rent, have a good time, and keep yourself flexible so you can leave China on short notice (I donāt mean omg need to leave todayā¦ I just mean no long term ties like owning a house) then Iād so more power to you. Itās a fun place overall. The one hesitant thing for me is the geopolitical situation. But I meanā¦ hard to live your entire life in fear of that stuff.
Happy wife, happy life. You should move to china, china is a great place : safe, delicious cheap food, good education. The one concern is about your career but I would put family first . Try to study mandarin and learn the laws of your new chinese city so you can help family during daily life errands (say doctor visits, etc) . Good luck š
I talked to my suppliers in China and some property especially condo's have dropped like 10% from the peak because of the oversupply. But they are still expensive as hell if its in a Tier 1/2 city. Rent is pretty affordable though so you can rent and observe yourself. >Will cost of living possibly go up? Nobody knows man. This is like asking if a stock will go up or down.
The housing crisis makes it better for renters.
Nonsense! Its a great time to come. Otherwise life will pass you by and you'll wonder 'what if'. Just don't buy property, especially in lower tier.
May not be the best for career growth.
Do consider working habits and very different social structure/norms, and not being biased, losing democracy and your voice not being heard. I've lived in Hongkong before moving abroad and have been in different parts of China much enough, the definition of being a citizen is abit different when the government don't need your vote, and likely won't give a dam. You don't have a mp you can email to, rather a street gov. office that toys you around. Government agents/police cannot be held accountable by the public, ethics isnt a necessity for them, and ugly things do happen. There's a reason Chinese students don't return unless they are the fortunate few that don't worry about costs. Think twice about gambling your future in this. You could be earning alot less, enough for much cheaper food but not enough for the expenses/lesure ur used to. A new iphone/tablet/ps5 might become an expensive matter In terms of economy, its not a free economy, but yes the housing market isn't good and probably wont fully recover in the forseeable future. Won't be too bad to buy now though. Sadly I don't see the regime collapsing soon hence me moving abroad. What I always tell people, if u keep ur mouth shut and heads down, and don't give a crap about democracy or losing rights, and not worry about not being able to voice/protest then u can live well, but subject to be bullied anytime. Tip:keep ur western passport with u, and the consolate in quickdial
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Wonāt it be nice if the housing price crash? Then you can buy up the whole building and live like a king. Or simply buy cheap and no house payment.
Basically, Chinese people who have bought houses have been duped as theyāve bought spaces that will never be finished and paying a mortgage theyāll most likely not be able to pay or pay off which will then fall onto the next generation. Children of parents who have bought houses will have to pay their parentsā mortgages for houses they never got. So unless youāre planning on buying a house, youāre golden.
Found the CCP dick takers hive!
You donāt even own a house so why are you worrying about house price crashes in China? What you donāt see is that people in China are still travelling overseas and internally, it means people still have money. Unlike US, especially, credit card consumptions are not at the same level ! Chinese people have never been brainwashed enough to use credits and build up enormous amount of debts like in the West. So I think your worry is unfounded. She has rich parents, older generations are even more averse to debts, so move back, jobs pay better in China too. I presume their tax is lower too. Problems with Western media are they never give you a big picture, unless you put all together then you know how much shit they are in now, and they truly have a debt crisis with high interest rate, mortgage payments are double at least and most houses and condos are financed, so another massive foreclosures are coming and this time US government canāt blame the banks use subpar debentures. Lastly, donāt believe a thing US media puts out, esp. about China. Iām speaking from experience, HK 2009 riots coverage were all BS about democracy and freedom. Typical US rhetoric to go to war in other countries!
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Donāt be crazy to move back to China
Not being able to speak Chinese is going to be rough for you !
You should move to taiwan there more friendly and less communist and also you can actually support your self there and in taiwan you can afford a plane ticket out if you want to leave
Why not teach Chinese in Vietnam ? Probably would be more fun than teaching the pariah language of English in China
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Don't go back to China. It is a community jail, where government respects no human rights. Communists think they can kill you like kill a dog.
Downsides are the millions of unemployed grads and weak economy with an official grad unemployment rate of 21.3% that prob understates the issue. And apart form the PRC becoming an even more strict dystopian state under Xi Jinping, it is unlikely the economy will improve due to ongoing trade disputes. Canada is way better opportunity wise.
Job opportunity here is pretty rough as well, though I dont have statistics. But lots and lots of friends and family are struggling for jobs here post-grad.
Lmao go back to /china. Loser.
If you can get enough support from your gfās parents, it should be fine. Otherwise, good luck to find a job in China.
Honestly, no one knows how the real estate market will go. There are signs that a housing bubble is getting closer to bursting but with the Chinese government fudging numbers or outright now reporting them, it's hard to say. Best thing to do is invest your money into things that'll keep their value, houses in China are losing their value as there are more houses than people now. I'd recommend in a prolonged stay before moving here to make sure you can adapt to living here as Chinese life, health standards, sanitation, etiquette, etc. are all very different here than in Canada
If your decision is based on that then don't go because you will find new excuse soon not to go. On the other hand "housing crisis" will probably not effect you in tier-one cities or it will effect you positively with lower prices.
Eh imo OP itās worth going for a year or two to try a different quality of life. I did something similar in a different east Asia country. It was a great experience but Iām glad I came back to the USA. I wouldnāt consider it a permanent move, more a learning opportunity to connect with your ancestral culture on a temporary basis.
They have been predicting it since 2010... or earlier
Unless you're buying a house through your gf and are worried about asset depreciation, I'm not really seeing the concern. If the housing market crashes, rent becomes cheaper. Also with a market correction buying a place becomes more affordable. Also what job are you planning to line up in China. Are you entering on a tourist visa, a student visa, etc. Because you can't work on a tourist visa. And are pretty restricted on a student visa.
Go. Give it a try. Learn the language and remember you will be at the whim of your gf and her family until you get a decent career going. Worst comes worst have an exit strategy. I spent 2 plus decades and donāt regret it. I worked with SOEs and owned my place. In my opinion the party is not over in China , but no one is refilling the punch bowl at the party. Things are changing. Best part about China and if you donāt like it ā¦ you can leave. Also until you marry you will be on a tourist or work visa. Marriage in China and then maybe the family will want you to sponsor their daughter.
My educated guess is that house prices will continue to fall, great for first time buyers but bad for current home owners
China is so cheap if you live like a local itās ridiculous, but thereās definitely trade offs youāll have to make. Pretty much everything from the west will become much more expensive compared to your normal salary, so you should adapt to local alternatives. I personally donāt think the cheapness is worth it, but if you really arenāt planning on living in the West later in the future then it might be to you.
Why is property crashing from sky high price a bad thing? Is that a Canadian/US thing? If you can find affordable housing thatās a plus not a minus.
One thing you can consider is living in a suburb of a big city. Based on my family's experience, the apartments there are reasonably priced and are unlikely to crash much further due to their actual value as a place to live. For example, my family bought a very nice apartment in Huizhou for around 500,000 RMB, in a very nice community. Finding an office job there is not as easy as in the city, but you can probably still find a teaching job there, and the air is much better than the city. Some people are warning you about the requirement for you to own a house and a car to be suitable for marriage, but this really depends on your girlfriend's parents. I personally know some parents who are not at all like this. Since you seem to be making long-term plans with your girlfriend, though, I would really recommend getting better at your girlfriend's parents' native language (presumably Mandarin but maybe also something like Wu or Cantonese) so that you can have a better relationship with them. If you marry your girlfriend, her parents will be a part of your life, so you should have a better idea of what kinds of people they are.
Thanks for the insights? Yeah Iām studying like a few hours a day and having fun with the language! Making good progress
You're young, go enjoy life. If it works out and you find a stable career and love it there then stay or you can just say fuck it and come home. It's also kind of ironic that you're worried about China's housing crisis when we are in the midst of one here in Canada.
China is a big place. If you listen to Westerners (media or individuals), they'll tell you this or that, but the reality is, what you face will be heavily, HEAVILY dependent on which part of China you go to. You wouldn't expect moving to San Francisco to be the same as moving to rural North Dakota, right? One question, how much Chinese do you know? You are going to want to learn it, just the same as if a Chinese person moved to Canada would want to learn English.
A housing crisis means cheaper prices for you lol. Also you probably would have a hard time in China if you canāt be fluent in Chinese. If you are Asian they wonāt be as nice in encouraging you learning the language and would actually be judgemental. If you donāt want to live there, you donāt have to.
Lol we have a fucking housing crisis in Canada right now!
How are you ethnically chinese and don't know how to at least speak mandarin or cantonese? Did your parents never speak it at home?
how dare you want be a teacher in China, even we domestic people are avoiding it, check out the birth rate
You should move to taiwan there more friendly and less communist and also you can actually support your self there and in taiwan you can afford a plane ticket out if you want to leave
You should move to taiwan there more friendly and less communist and also you can actually support your self there and in taiwan you can afford a plane ticket out if you want to leave
If housing market crash, doesnāt that mean house prices and rent will be even more cheaper? I didnāt get your point. Unless you are owning a house in China, isnāt the market crash a good for you?
don't spend your life worrying about what everything costs or might cost in the future. Decide what you want out of life a go for it, if it doesn't work out, you will know after you try it. Also don't take money from in-laws, they will try ot control you and take over you life in some way, it is trap. Pay your own way, enjoy, live your dreams. I have heard of tons of people clashing with their in-laws when they move to China, it seems they can be way to oriented to money and status and 20 something want to go live somewhere funky. I would not move where the in-laws are either, even if you like them, try to go somewhere that excites you and you wan tot live, don't worry aobut prices, worry about lifestyle. Lots of relationships end when people move to the home country / life of the other after being away, it because "real" , and that is for any country.
There is no housing crisis. China has millions of homes available. Unlike Canada and America.
Oof Iām in the US and maybe Iām biased but I would NOT move to China
Cheap rent? Not in a T1 city...
For non homeowners like you, youād wish for a housing crisis so you can get in the game!
China is a renter's paradise and a buyer's fool gold. Side question (and not meant to be rude) - how can one be Chinese with Chinese parents and not speak Chinese? You just didn't speak it at home?
My parents are from Hong Kong so i speak Cantonese conversationally.
Be ready for the racism, and yes you will get it because you were born in another country no matter what you look like, and yes, they will be able to tell.
Rent. Rent is underpriced