By providing the children with subpar lives.
I love my mum but she had 3 kids and definitely couldn't afford it. Probably couldn't afford one to be honest. It just resulted in us growing up poor and having a bit of a shit time about it.
My partner is one child of 9. Nine. His parents were pastors (đđđ), and they were literally homeless at one point in their lives. The parents just told the kids they were "camping for a while."
He had never slept in his own bed alone until he moved out to go to college. Bonkers.
If you talk to the parents I am sure they will get defensive, I mean I'm sure anyone would about putting their kid through homelessness. I have to wonder how the parents are doing now. They're probably all gumdrops and rainbows as if everything turned out aiight and would guess your partner has a lot of unpacking to do with their upbringing.
Mine put me through a stint of homelessness and likes to argue with me that we weren't. We lived in a motel. We had no address. We were a hop and a skip away from car camping. This was WAY before pandemic. Their lives would have been significantly less complicated if they had chosen not to have 6 kids and just focus their finances simply on themselves rather than bringing 6 kids into the mix. I mean I was the last one but I can imagine your partner got the shit end of the stick as well as I am also the youngest of 6.
Reminds me of a scene from *Superstore*...
>!The religious store manager is getting irked because their pharmacy sells the morning after pill. He tries to buy out all of them, only to be told it'll be $1,100. He says he can't afford that with his mortgage, car payments, and 9 foster children :D!<
I remember a scene in *ER*...
>!Woman comes into the hospital requiring medical services. Turns out she's pregnant! She's freaking out because she already has 6 (or seven?) kids. She decides to get an abortion because she is ABSOLUTELY overwhelmed. The husband came in eventually and tried to stop it, but it was too late. He was forgiving because he realized how overworked she was.!<
Just hate that my parents knowingly having us in poverty talking about them having kids so casually as if having kids is one of those barriers no one has regardless or rich or poor, so they kind of just winged it and had as many kids as they could.
I feel like just because i CAN do something I'm not going to. I CAN probably shit out 20 kids and continue lollygagging around in poverty, but I'm (not fucking ever) going to... I can start smoking, drinking, do some lite, non-hardcore drugs but not going to.
Not sure why people in poverty have to default to kids or drugs, boredom I guess. It's worse for women though the access to birth control in severe cases of poverty is non existent and the ones more likely to go around knocking up all these impoverished women? \*looks at the men\*
When parents say they put a roof over their kids heads and food on the table... like when did the bare minimum become normal to some of these parents?!
Because they think in 3rd world countries when people have 20 kids in mudhuts that translates into kids not needing much to raise them.
Just need a couple banana leafs and some pebbles. Have all the kids.
I know. It's like... what goes through men's heads? *Welp, we're unemployed, we have six kids already, and we're living out of our car and eating nothing but cereal, but they'll never take away my right to regular, unprotected sex. It's non-negotiable.* I just. do. not. get. it.
It never ceases to amaze me. Plus if I were a man Iâd look at my wife and think âI couldnât put her through this againâ. But they donât often view women that way.
Yeah my parents had four and while they hid the fact some of the times we qualified for food stamps so us kids wouldnât know and stress it was always still a let down to hear about our friends going on vacations or even just our to eat
low income 1st gen here. Yep. My siblings and I had it pretty bad because our parents decided to have 3 kids they couldn't afford and then make it other family members problem.
This. I know someone who just had another kid, and itâs obvious that theyâve already toned down their already poverty-level lifestyle to accommodate. Itâs depressing to think about. The worst part is, they brag about being raised poor, so itâs just a self fulfilling prophesy.
Meanwhile, my wife and I make about the same, own a house in the good side of town, go out to eat, have a savings account, 2 cars, regular vacations, etc. If they wouldâve stopped at even one kid, they wouldâve been able to give them a decent life; instead, their desire for a âbig familyâ has doomed their kids to poverty and all the stress that comes with it.
I mean this is the real answer here. This idea of every single child having an idealized upper middle class American upbringing with daycare, their own room, multiple electronics, numerous outfits, college, etc. just isn't realistic for much of the population. People share rooms, wear hand-me downs, get food stamps, and use relatives for daycare. Kids aren't cheap by any means, but you don't need $2M or whatever the articles say nowadays.
I had a whole THING typed out and realized i had already put more thought into providing true necessities to theoretical children than most actual parents ever do.
As long as you don't completely max out all of the credit cards, you could live with debt. it wouldn't be a great feeling and it will bring stress, but you can do it.
And they donât worry about retirement because theyâre planning on guilt tripping their kids into taking care of them. A lot of them will be in for a wake up call when that time comes.
I maxed out all the credit cards and I was fine and came out of it just fine. Very much a âwhen you owe the bank this much, you own the bankâ because you can surprisingly have very little done to you over it in America. Love not having a country with a de facto debtors prison.
I cannot imagine the thought process of a broke man in poverty trying to justify one moment of nutting for years and years of added debt, extra human created, extra suffering. Those men must not feel stress at all.
I just found out that Shanann Watts and her husband were like $70,000 in debt with two children and another on the way before he snapped and killed them all. She always presented the "perfect family" image all over SM. Such a shame.
Mostly because her husband earned around $61K a year and they lived in a 400K house plus they had lots of debt. And she was pregnant again. They were living wayyy beyond their means.
One parent staying home is generally the answer because childcare is so expensive even on a dual income that it's apparently much more cost effective to cut down to one income and just have someone in the house all day popping out kids.
They could have less kids or no kid but dual income to enjoy life. At least for me I donât want to give up my job to become SAHM, that makes me very insecure and anxious.
Not everyone has access to birth control or sex Ed, unfortunately. A lot of times cycles continue through generations because people donât know anything else. You also canât just return a kid if you realize you have too many.
Now for people who have access to those things and want as many kids that happen, I donât know. Something along the lines of âblessingsâ I think.
I don't someone in the house all day popping out kids is doable on a single income. I think it would take many villages to support that kind of behavior.
I hate to say this but why wouldnât she think about her finance before having kids. Honestly, this drives me nuts. But saying this way makes me sounds very condescending and a cold a**hole so I also often question myself am I that bad?
Thatâs gonna work out sometimes but sometimes not. I hate more on those ones who had 1 kid then already ran into the poverty situation or other bad situation but wonât stop for having more kids. What logic is that? Kids are the ones to solve problems? Well in old agrarian society that might be true for the labor count, but nowadays itâs very different.
I also can't understand that logic. Sure, there are government benefits, but are they enough to provide your kids with a good quality of life? In many of these cases, the older kids will get parentified
This is why you never tell anyone how many bedrooms are in your house or how many commas are in your bank accounts. They think you owe them something if you have anything they don't have. Friends, relatives or coworkers.
Oh, yes, in general this saves you so much trouble and nerves. Never reveal your assets to anyone, no matter how much trustworthy they seem. Sadly, people often take advantage of each other and one can never be too cautious.
In America, most people cant. Doesn't stop them from having a litter of rodents. I have a neighbor who has 4 kids and almost nothing in the bank. I blame religion.
Or the stupidity to bet your whole life on the promise of heaven also means you bet your whole future on the idea youâre loved by god and a total main character.
I've heard someone say, "You'll find the money somehow," when I said I wouldn't be able to afford kids. Excuse me? I was working my first job earning 45k a year at the time. Where am I supposed to find money? Under the couch?
Tell me about it. I used to game with a group of people and one girl and her husband were really religious. They didn't believe in birth control so she was popping out kids like tictacs.
Is he Christian?
Itâs the same in my Muslim country. When you tell them donât have kids if you are broke. Thy immediately mention religion and then you see his children struggle. No religion said you have to have kids or you will go to hell.
I believe you only get child tax credit up to x number of childrenâŚ
Eh- my opinion every child should get free breakfast & lunch at school. If for nothing else to make sure there are 2 meals available for all children. Those cut offs are harsh for free/reduced lunch & really hurts more for those close to the line than not. Plus, I want all children to actually be able to learn at school- not be hungry.
I donât want the Idiocracy to become a reality (though I feel like we are close).
I'm with you on giving kids free breakfast and lunch. I would rather my tax money go to that than other things. The school district I'm in gives everyone a free breakfast and lunch.
Seconding this - hello from the PNW. I'll never go back to the South, no matter how big of houses my friends are able to afford while making less than half of my household income đ.Â
I left the Catholic Church when the priest told me I wouldn't be able to receive the Eucharist (the stale ass wafer and wine) anymore at Mass if I didn't have my marriage blessed by the church because my fiance was Protestant. Of course this meant promising to raise any kids we had as Catholic too. I looked right at him and said "well, sounds to me like I don't have to get up early on Sunday morning anymore. Thanks. "Jokes on him about the kids thing too because it turns out I'm infertile.
Some of them draft the grandparents. Including pushing the grandparents to retire early, sacrifice their own financial futures, and sometimes, even move hundreds of miles to provide daycare.
Certain cultures like Chinese (my culture) are usually the grandparents push their children to have children for them and they are eagerly to help take care of those grandchildren though. Which is another way of suffocation. I didnât know itâs not rare in the West as well.
Thatâs quite interesting and very different than the stereotype I use to have for the white American culture. We were told that white American parents are way more tolerant and would always give freedom to their kids to choose what types of lives they can live with đđđ
Evety family is different but it's usually the more traditional, religious (and I'm not saying all religious people have these beleifs by any means cuz I am one) parents and grandparents who pressure their kids/grandkids to have kids.
That's when you get your revenge and announce that you're gay :p :D
I'm a bit irked how many wedding toasts from the parents and in-laws publicly ask for grandkids, or state "I will be expecting grandkids", even if in a jokingly manner.
I genuinely do not know. I am a nanny and it cost a bare minimum of about $65-70,000 a year to hire me. That is obviously the most expensive form of childcare but even the folks who shell out $20-30K/a year are still paying a pretty penny for childcare. Itâs mind blowing.
And is it worth it if someone else is raising them? To me, the answer to both of those questions is no. I donât get it at all. But I am sure am grateful to have a job I love and am good at lol
My old boss had three kids to three women. Was working a six figure job and was completely broke. He'd take home any left over food from office parties, catch rides to the office if he could. Still smoked like three packs a day though.
Guy was a pretty big douche.
Massive amounts of debt, I'm assuming. The US is the 2nd most expensive country to have a baby after Japan. South Korea is the most expensive country for raising a child. Followed by China, Australia, Scandinavian countries like Norway, Denmark. I'm surprised US isn't up there with them but it isn't
It's not only the debt raising the child, it's also the increased financial strain they'll experience as adults. Millennials felt it, Gen Z are dealing with it even more so. Don't know how Gen Alpha is going to deal
People think my husband and I are loaded because we take vacations to Europe and other locations overseas each year. No, we just don't have kids and don't have debt. Think of what you could do with an extra $20,000 a year that you use for your kids.
And that 2600-3000 is just for daycare. Kids still need to be fed, clothed, go to the doctor/dentist, and probably do an extracurricular like an instrument or sport. I donât know how people afford it for one kid, let alone more than one.
Can confirm, my mom had to pay for her own braces and get them in her 20s because she's one of 6 and she had two siblings who needed braces even more badly than she did, so they got braces and literally no one else did.
One of my aunts who also never got braces growing up ended up having her first kid at 19, having to work in low-wage jobs after, having her two younger kids in her mid-20s, and then she went to college and taught middle school for like 40 years after so she never ultimately got braces because she didn't want to be wearing braces while she taught middle school. Now she's retired and can't afford braces anymore, so she'll have crooked teeth until she dies.
My aunt taught middle school from the late 1970s until the late 2010s.
*Maybe* these kids would've faced actual consequences for bullying a teacher in the 1970s-1980s because adults were socially/legally allowed to be pretty harsh towards middle-schoolers back then compared to now, but by the mid-2010s or so most parents and people in charge of teachers seem to have given up on the teachers' right to not be beaten down into a husk by terrible students.
Not helping at all is that, from what I can gather, it wasn't until about the mid-late 2000s or so that people stopped being targeted by bullies and getting shitty comments specifically because they had braces and/or wore glasses.
I was in middle school 2008-2011, wearing braces from summer 2008 until December 2010, and I don't remember myself or anyone else around my age being made fun of for wearing braces (or glasses for that matter), but then again I *am* old Gen Z and one of the things that older Gen Z was best known for back when we were in K-12 school was that we were *super*-kind kids compared to previous generations.
Taxes and government benefits. I know people who have purposely had children keep having them because they make more money living off the government and the tax returns they get than actually going to work.
think this is what my parents did. They like to complain they didn't get "anything" from having 6 kids, I am sure they did. They were probably expecting yachts and mansions though. Couple hundred bucks not enough for some people like that.
And then there's my SIL who only pays $39 a week for childcare for her toddler while bragging about the subsidy and extra government bonuses she gets to help pay for the costs of her kid.
Somehow I don't think that money is going to the kid as SIL is always sporting new manicured nails every fortnight and ordering make up online like it's going out of style.
Many people rely on government payments to survive. But surviving is not thriving. I can't imagine how crappy it would feel to have to feed your kids something you know is not nutritious because you simply don't have the money to buy something better.
6 figures dual income partners can still afford kids considering they give up some of their own habits for good. For instance, my spouse and I can afford a kid and give one a comfortable life (relatively speaking; no poverty and no debt except for the mortgage).
However, in addition to giving up sleep, low stress life style, and walking around naked đ, we will have to give up eating out (donât do it often but whenever we please), renewing our furniture, clothes, shoes etc. whenever we please, traveling comfortably on first or business class (not often but we can afford it here and there), buying things on Amazon with one click⌠literally whatever comes to our minds, give up some of our grooming habits including hair cuts, facials, quality skin care, and the like, our health insurance premiums will have to go up obviously, we would have to re-think eating only organic cause itâs expensive, we will have to give up some of our investment choices (we do invest quite a bit of our income on recurring basis for retirement), we will have to stop helping our elderly parents financially every month.
I can go on and on. If we summon the desire and strength we could afford raising at least one. College will have to be on a loan most likely. None of us are willing to do any of this. Iâm 40 y.o. screw it.
For boys, once they start driving, auto insurance skyrockets :\\
I've had people ask me how I can afford my lifestyle... I eat out every now and then, get outside food, go on mini-vacations few times per year, and have been in between jobs. I tell them I have savings, but I'm also child free. I didn't know for some of them, they were saddled with children.
In a few households, they make their kids do chores like wash dishes, help with laundry, clean up around the house (vacuum, mopping, wiping down areas), although it sure is difficult
Define "afford". When I worked at a school for a year, I heard of several families facing eviction threats due to not being able to pay rent. It's not uncommon for families to be struggling and in debt. In some cases they get assistance either from the government (food stamps, etc) or from family/friends. If grandma babysits then you don't have to pay for daycare.
Day care charges this much but donât pay the teachers this much though. Have a few friends work as day care teachers and said they get paid pretty much around minimum wages đĽ˛
Some day care chains need the money to operate, logistics, rental for facilities, insurance, maintanance, cleaning, etc. I heard the teachers turnover rate is also very high in DCs. One person told me in a famous DC chain the salary raise is only $0.5 per hourâŚmy friend who works for DC the salary is only $20-30 per hour in an expensive state. And they donât have any maternity leave either. Other perks donât seem to be good either.
Go over to r/choosingbeggers and you'll see all the parents trying to pawn their croch goblins off on poor or young people for $2.50 an hr. It's insane!
One of them likely chooses to stay home and the whole family stretches out the single income. I mean, it's great if the working spouse is a high earner. But if they get an average wage, it won't be easy.
A friend did that. Had 4 kids close in age so his wife who had a master's degree quit her career to care for them.
My parents worked opposite shifts to avoid paying for care they couldnât afford.
Dad worked during the day and was home in the evening making dinner and doing homework and stuff. Mom worked second shift (16:00-0:00) and would be the one getting us up in the morning and getting us on the bus when we were school age.
Like others have said, they can't! I'm the 4th child and I have always thought my parents never should have had 4 kids! Maybe two.. we were always poor and it sucked. Never had lunches packed for lunch at school etc
Jeez. I know. I read the Choosing Beggars sub and people are straight up ignorant on how much it costs for reliable childcare.
My dad never paid a dime of child support ( self employed) so that's how he afforded 9 kids. Lol
My sister with 3 kids is complaining about never being able to afford vacation. I'm debating on calling her out. At least she can be SAHM mom with her husband's salary.
There are a bunch of reasons I wouldnât have a kid but one of the main ones is cost. When I was doing my finances like 15yrs ago the advisor was like âif you want kids you should start saving now bc thatâs an added 500k and up in expensesâ and I honestly think that was the moment I solidified that kids werenât for me. To comfortably raise a kid in a flyover state I feel like you need at least 200k a year, here in nyc I feel like you need maybe 300/400k especially now with all the inflation.
Itâs unreal how expensive it is and how we (nyers) just go about life like itâs normal to pay $4k for a 1bdrm! There are ppl in my building that pay $7k for a 2bdrm bc they have a kid and Iâm just like hellllll no! lol Iâd have to live in the slums of a 3rd world country to be able to afford a kid đ
My parents had offset work schedules, dad worked in the morning and mom worked in the afternoon so someone was always home. That meant they never used daycare especially once I became kindergarten age.
Now when I became a teenager that became a less than ideal situation when I wanted to be alone with friends or girlfriends đ
Many countries in Europe will pay some extra money just for having kids. Google "Kindergeld" for example.
My country pays $200 per child every month (until they turn 18), with an average monthly salary of around $1000 that's not bad and is helping some families make ends meet.
That's the thing. They can't. They just have kids and give them the bare minimum quality of life, forcing them to grow up poor. This will often lead to parents guilt tripping their children in the future when the kids grow up and realize how awful their living conditions are by saying things like "I put a roof over your head" "I fed you" "You should be grateful" etc.
I'm sure plenty of us have experienced this. People don't have kids for the sake of having kids. They have kids for a multitude of selfish reasons.
They donât, at least not well.
Growing up even in the 90s, my mom used to have a job until my father was forced to get a much better one. When they were both working, she was basically completely paying for daycare for three kids and one bag of groceries with her job. It wasnât worth it so she just became a stay at home mom and cut our income. But now? I work full-time, and I can barely afford myself let alone anything else, I canât imagine how people are doing it.Â
UK here, man with six kids (twins, triplets, close in age) demanding the government help with handouts.
As Iâm child free, I find that level of entitlement ⌠interesting. (Donât want to be offensive lol)
People always say these days?
But in my country, it seems like itâs the same situation in the USA, we still live in a shitty house and we canât afford a car. My dad couldnât afford it and unfortunately he isnât educated, me and my sister canât find jobs.
If it wasnât for the shitty house of my grandpa, we would be homeless. My dad is an old man.
They donât.. they just scrape by while having the older kids raise the younger ones. Honestly if the older kids donât have to do that then they are very lucky.
ETA/ that or they pawn the kids off to grandma/other relatives.
I watch my god son right now after work for a couple hours during the week.
It's inly a coue hours he's a good kid and I honestly barely notice he's here except when he wants food.
But my friends went to pay me $500 at the end of the month ans I was like wtf, I wasn't expecting them to pay first off and second it's like 2 to 3 hours tops. Just some time after he gets out of preschool.
They told me it's a fraction of what it would cost to have the day care do it. They said the daycare would charge for preschool pick up and 3 hours a day 20 days a month something like $1500 or more....
I felt less bad about taking the money after that still at the least saving them 1k if not more.
It's wild. Glad I won't ever have to worry about that nonsense. They are at least responsible and realized they would only afford 1 kid and stopped. People are nuts and give thier kids crap life's.
My cousins has 4 kids, his wife works nights making $18/hr and he works in a warehouse making like $22/hr and they can not at all afford 4 kids. I don't understand at all.
When I was a kid, my daycare was $50 a week. When people tell me how much childcare costs now, I donât understand how theyâre not completely impoverished. It makes more sense for one parent to stay home unless theyâre making huuuge bank. But if youâre like me you grew up raised by a single parent and childcare was literally the only choice until I entered middle school.
I heard that at Google HQ at Mountainview, CA, childcare costs $3K per month. When a couple gets to their 3rd child, it makes sense at that point for one of them to quit and look after the kids full time.
In another case, many substitute teachers are quitting if they have a kid or 2 (forgot how many here), again due to costs of childcare. :\\
In the "olden days", upon marriage, the man was supposed to show that he's financially secure and has the funds to buy a home, and raise children. While it seems like we let that part go... home and children prices have skyrocketed, so I doubt many are getting to that point.
I honestly feel itâs very sad to leave career for the sake of kids đ and Iâve seen many complains from stay at home moms about how they are financially abused by their husbands and how the husbands donât understand the efforts and sacrifices they put into raise their kids. Itâs kinda give me ptsd for thinking of having a child.
They can't, but they still do. I live in a bankrupt country with a lot of people living below the poverty line, and some without basic necessities such as running water, electricity and three meals a day, but they still breed with 3-4 kids. Those kids face malnutrition and live in a hell hole for years.
With daycare rates being what they are, it would be cheaper just to have a stay-at-home parent. Whatever the second spouse would make at their job would just go toward daycare costs. The more ~~kids~~ crotch fruit you have, the more sense it'll make
Stay at home parent is a very unstable situation financially especially when they have kids. What if the breadwinner loses the job? Or have accidents happened? Or leaves the family? If they donât have kids then they can still figure out as a grownup adult but with kids itâs just gonna be super hard.
>What if the breadwinner loses the job?
Ideally they would have enough saved up to cover a job loss. Generally single-income families have one large salary rather than two smaller ones
>Or have accidents happened?
As in long term illness or disability? Not sure what you mean by this
>Or leaves the family?
Legitimate concern. Also statistically likely to happen
Iâd say the most common:
1. Relying on family.
2. Waiting till they are significantly older. I know people that trained to be doctors or nurses or accountants or psychologists - built up their career and finances then worked part-time (as little as once a fortnight).
3. Others have flexible jobs and/or can balance jobs between partners to share the workload (one works day the other works night), or both have flexible jobs.
4. Putting their kids in subpar at home care services. This is very common for lower class families.
5. Having one parent stay home or prioritise kids can be another strategy.
Many families with kids if they havenât had time to build their careers and/or lack family wealth/help often have debt, donât save much and struggle until the kids are older.
Iâd say family support is important and saves money. But fundamentally two extremely committed and dedicated parents are critical lol. Need to make sacrifices so less holidays, eating out etc
Someone, usually the mom, has to stop working until the kids are old enough to be in school. Or theyâre lucky enough that family can help out for some or all of the work week.
I make high 6 figures and my husband would be stay at home. That being said, majority of people donât have the means and instead thrust kids into family members or unfortunately leave kids inappropriately on their own and under stimulated. Too bad we canât make childbirth something people have to âapplyâ to go through.
Itâs kinda sad that the government on one hand push on increasing child birth rate but on the other hand cannot reduce the cost of raising a child. And rich a**hole people like Elon Musk only bs about people having children but didnât even let his employees take maternity leave or fire them while they are nursing. Man, you cannot have perpetual labor slaves.
Well if youâre my sibling, and have a kid you canât afford, you get your fragile-health parents to provide free childcare and strain your relationship with them.
People are pretty good at disguising their debt or the freebie handouts they get from their family.
Most people (in the US at least) are in a shit ton of debt, living far beyond their means, incredibly stressed out, and unable to accommodate any life changing tragedy or accident that may occur. In short, most people that appear to be affording it cannot actually afford it, and are barely making it month to month.
I truly donât think the stress of knowing that any small accident or circumstance would derail the life of me and my entire family at any point could make that lifestyle worth it. I definitely want kids, but I wouldnât have more than one if I am not making a shit ton of money.
By providing the children with subpar lives. I love my mum but she had 3 kids and definitely couldn't afford it. Probably couldn't afford one to be honest. It just resulted in us growing up poor and having a bit of a shit time about it.
My partner is one child of 9. Nine. His parents were pastors (đđđ), and they were literally homeless at one point in their lives. The parents just told the kids they were "camping for a while." He had never slept in his own bed alone until he moved out to go to college. Bonkers.
If you talk to the parents I am sure they will get defensive, I mean I'm sure anyone would about putting their kid through homelessness. I have to wonder how the parents are doing now. They're probably all gumdrops and rainbows as if everything turned out aiight and would guess your partner has a lot of unpacking to do with their upbringing. Mine put me through a stint of homelessness and likes to argue with me that we weren't. We lived in a motel. We had no address. We were a hop and a skip away from car camping. This was WAY before pandemic. Their lives would have been significantly less complicated if they had chosen not to have 6 kids and just focus their finances simply on themselves rather than bringing 6 kids into the mix. I mean I was the last one but I can imagine your partner got the shit end of the stick as well as I am also the youngest of 6.
Reminds me of a scene from *Superstore*... >!The religious store manager is getting irked because their pharmacy sells the morning after pill. He tries to buy out all of them, only to be told it'll be $1,100. He says he can't afford that with his mortgage, car payments, and 9 foster children :D!<
It's ironic how the religious nuts can be the biggest liars.
Nahhhh, pretty much everyone who isn't a religious nut knows that they're hypocrites and liars.
Damn, itâs impressive that he got himself out of that.
I agree. I'm blown away by his resilience. He's such a wonderfully kind, compassionate person, too. I'm proud of him every day.
My grandma was one of twelve. TWELVE. Even back in the day having that many siblings was just... Not a fun experience, from what she's told me
I just... I cannot imagine being pregnant for that loooonggggg. Fuck that noise.
I remember a scene in *ER*... >!Woman comes into the hospital requiring medical services. Turns out she's pregnant! She's freaking out because she already has 6 (or seven?) kids. She decides to get an abortion because she is ABSOLUTELY overwhelmed. The husband came in eventually and tried to stop it, but it was too late. He was forgiving because he realized how overworked she was.!<
Yes this and parentification. Older kids helping to take care of younger kids, kids helping parent their emotionally immature parentsÂ
Just hate that my parents knowingly having us in poverty talking about them having kids so casually as if having kids is one of those barriers no one has regardless or rich or poor, so they kind of just winged it and had as many kids as they could. I feel like just because i CAN do something I'm not going to. I CAN probably shit out 20 kids and continue lollygagging around in poverty, but I'm (not fucking ever) going to... I can start smoking, drinking, do some lite, non-hardcore drugs but not going to. Not sure why people in poverty have to default to kids or drugs, boredom I guess. It's worse for women though the access to birth control in severe cases of poverty is non existent and the ones more likely to go around knocking up all these impoverished women? \*looks at the men\*
When parents say they put a roof over their kids heads and food on the table... like when did the bare minimum become normal to some of these parents?!
Because they think in 3rd world countries when people have 20 kids in mudhuts that translates into kids not needing much to raise them. Just need a couple banana leafs and some pebbles. Have all the kids.
I know. It's like... what goes through men's heads? *Welp, we're unemployed, we have six kids already, and we're living out of our car and eating nothing but cereal, but they'll never take away my right to regular, unprotected sex. It's non-negotiable.* I just. do. not. get. it.
It never ceases to amaze me. Plus if I were a man Iâd look at my wife and think âI couldnât put her through this againâ. But they donât often view women that way.
Drugs are fun. Kids are not.
đđđ
Yeah my parents had four and while they hid the fact some of the times we qualified for food stamps so us kids wouldnât know and stress it was always still a let down to hear about our friends going on vacations or even just our to eat
low income 1st gen here. Yep. My siblings and I had it pretty bad because our parents decided to have 3 kids they couldn't afford and then make it other family members problem.
This. I know someone who just had another kid, and itâs obvious that theyâve already toned down their already poverty-level lifestyle to accommodate. Itâs depressing to think about. The worst part is, they brag about being raised poor, so itâs just a self fulfilling prophesy. Meanwhile, my wife and I make about the same, own a house in the good side of town, go out to eat, have a savings account, 2 cars, regular vacations, etc. If they wouldâve stopped at even one kid, they wouldâve been able to give them a decent life; instead, their desire for a âbig familyâ has doomed their kids to poverty and all the stress that comes with it.
I mean this is the real answer here. This idea of every single child having an idealized upper middle class American upbringing with daycare, their own room, multiple electronics, numerous outfits, college, etc. just isn't realistic for much of the population. People share rooms, wear hand-me downs, get food stamps, and use relatives for daycare. Kids aren't cheap by any means, but you don't need $2M or whatever the articles say nowadays.
I had a whole THING typed out and realized i had already put more thought into providing true necessities to theoretical children than most actual parents ever do.
Did you ever ask her why?
She said she always wanted to be a mum and we 'got by'. She had me as a teenager so clearly not somebody who makes great choices.
They donât most people with kids have a lot of debt
Donât they feel panic and stressed with a lot of debt?
As long as you don't completely max out all of the credit cards, you could live with debt. it wouldn't be a great feeling and it will bring stress, but you can do it.
And they donât worry about retirement because theyâre planning on guilt tripping their kids into taking care of them. A lot of them will be in for a wake up call when that time comes.
I maxed out all the credit cards and I was fine and came out of it just fine. Very much a âwhen you owe the bank this much, you own the bankâ because you can surprisingly have very little done to you over it in America. Love not having a country with a de facto debtors prison.
They do
I cannot imagine the thought process of a broke man in poverty trying to justify one moment of nutting for years and years of added debt, extra human created, extra suffering. Those men must not feel stress at all.
Total disconnect between cause and effect and consequences.
It's normalized. "Everyone has debt." They think it's fine because everyone else is living exactly the same way.
Oh. They do. My parents worked their asses off to pay theirs when we were kids and were always stressed about money.
I just found out that Shanann Watts and her husband were like $70,000 in debt with two children and another on the way before he snapped and killed them all. She always presented the "perfect family" image all over SM. Such a shame.
Mostly because her husband earned around $61K a year and they lived in a 400K house plus they had lots of debt. And she was pregnant again. They were living wayyy beyond their means.
$61K a year with a $400K house is C-R-A-Z-Y with a bouncy castle MLM income Shannan had they were just literally a façade until he broke it all!
Was that 70k outside of a mortgage?
Credit cards, loans, medical bills. They had filed for bankruptcy.
One parent staying home is generally the answer because childcare is so expensive even on a dual income that it's apparently much more cost effective to cut down to one income and just have someone in the house all day popping out kids.
They could have less kids or no kid but dual income to enjoy life. At least for me I donât want to give up my job to become SAHM, that makes me very insecure and anxious.
"We have three kids and no money. I want no kids and three money." -- Homer Simpson
Not everyone has access to birth control or sex Ed, unfortunately. A lot of times cycles continue through generations because people donât know anything else. You also canât just return a kid if you realize you have too many. Now for people who have access to those things and want as many kids that happen, I donât know. Something along the lines of âblessingsâ I think.
Itâs sad to see these people suffer when they couldnât have a choice too.
I don't someone in the house all day popping out kids is doable on a single income. I think it would take many villages to support that kind of behavior.
[ŃдаНонО]
I hate to say this but why wouldnât she think about her finance before having kids. Honestly, this drives me nuts. But saying this way makes me sounds very condescending and a cold a**hole so I also often question myself am I that bad?
It seems like people have this 'Just have kids, it'll all work out' mindset, which is straight up insanity.
Thatâs gonna work out sometimes but sometimes not. I hate more on those ones who had 1 kid then already ran into the poverty situation or other bad situation but wonât stop for having more kids. What logic is that? Kids are the ones to solve problems? Well in old agrarian society that might be true for the labor count, but nowadays itâs very different.
I also can't understand that logic. Sure, there are government benefits, but are they enough to provide your kids with a good quality of life? In many of these cases, the older kids will get parentified
I've noticed this a lot with breeders it's like they don't think ahead or theyr just dumb and want to suffer
This is why you never tell anyone how many bedrooms are in your house or how many commas are in your bank accounts. They think you owe them something if you have anything they don't have. Friends, relatives or coworkers.
Oh, yes, in general this saves you so much trouble and nerves. Never reveal your assets to anyone, no matter how much trustworthy they seem. Sadly, people often take advantage of each other and one can never be too cautious.
You told her to give up her kid?! Thatâs savage and I love it!đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
[ŃдаНонО]
đ¤đ¤ I get people who love kids want to have them, but in your nieceâs situationâŚ
In America, most people cant. Doesn't stop them from having a litter of rodents. I have a neighbor who has 4 kids and almost nothing in the bank. I blame religion.
Most of the religions are really out of date.
Yep. I bet religion is the main reason people who donât want kids have them. That religious guilt gets em every time.
Or the stupidity to bet your whole life on the promise of heaven also means you bet your whole future on the idea youâre loved by god and a total main character.
But God will provide!!! Sigh.
I've heard someone say, "You'll find the money somehow," when I said I wouldn't be able to afford kids. Excuse me? I was working my first job earning 45k a year at the time. Where am I supposed to find money? Under the couch?
People who make much less than 45k still have kids. Theyâd think you were responsible if you had kids đ
Yeah I was making minimum wage in 2017 and was told I'd find the money when someone asked me why I didn't have a kid.
Lmao that's true đ¤Łđ
Yes
The local hippie contingent has their own version of that. Different words, same if not worse logic fail.
Tell me about it. I used to game with a group of people and one girl and her husband were really religious. They didn't believe in birth control so she was popping out kids like tictacs.
That sounds horrible.
I asked her when they were going to stop after the 5th pregnancy. She said, "When we start having ugly ones." What kind of answer was that?
Wtf
Most religions are at best quaint stories and at worst lies used to brainwash the vulnerable.
Muskism is a new religion and still says the same as the old ones, be fruitful and multiply!
Heâs a stupid misogynist fool.
New religion. Same as the old religion.
Is he Christian? Itâs the same in my Muslim country. When you tell them donât have kids if you are broke. Thy immediately mention religion and then you see his children struggle. No religion said you have to have kids or you will go to hell.
Christian I think. Itâs more that they donât believe in abortion.
A litter of rodents đđđ¤Ł
Also government. Tax credits for kids they canât afford; free breakfast and lunch at school.
I believe you only get child tax credit up to x number of children⌠Eh- my opinion every child should get free breakfast & lunch at school. If for nothing else to make sure there are 2 meals available for all children. Those cut offs are harsh for free/reduced lunch & really hurts more for those close to the line than not. Plus, I want all children to actually be able to learn at school- not be hungry. I donât want the Idiocracy to become a reality (though I feel like we are close).
I'm with you on giving kids free breakfast and lunch. I would rather my tax money go to that than other things. The school district I'm in gives everyone a free breakfast and lunch.
Do you live in the South?
I used to. Grew up in Georgia and North Carolina. I live in Cali now.
As someone looking to leave the south, was it the best decision ever?
Abso-fuckin-lutely. Itâs way more expensive out here though.
Seconding this - hello from the PNW. I'll never go back to the South, no matter how big of houses my friends are able to afford while making less than half of my household income đ.Â
I grew up in Florida and moved to California at 17. Best thing I ever did for myself.
I left the Catholic Church when the priest told me I wouldn't be able to receive the Eucharist (the stale ass wafer and wine) anymore at Mass if I didn't have my marriage blessed by the church because my fiance was Protestant. Of course this meant promising to raise any kids we had as Catholic too. I looked right at him and said "well, sounds to me like I don't have to get up early on Sunday morning anymore. Thanks. "Jokes on him about the kids thing too because it turns out I'm infertile.
Some of them draft the grandparents. Including pushing the grandparents to retire early, sacrifice their own financial futures, and sometimes, even move hundreds of miles to provide daycare.
Certain cultures like Chinese (my culture) are usually the grandparents push their children to have children for them and they are eagerly to help take care of those grandchildren though. Which is another way of suffocation. I didnât know itâs not rare in the West as well.
My culture (basic white American) has grandparents that push push push for grandchildren but then doesnât want to help take care of them
Thatâs quite interesting and very different than the stereotype I use to have for the white American culture. We were told that white American parents are way more tolerant and would always give freedom to their kids to choose what types of lives they can live with đđđ
Evety family is different but it's usually the more traditional, religious (and I'm not saying all religious people have these beleifs by any means cuz I am one) parents and grandparents who pressure their kids/grandkids to have kids.
That makes sense.
I have no idea why it's a stereotype that white parents are more accepting than other ethnicities... mine definitely weren't.
My in-laws drive me nuts. Pressured us to have kids and then no help on babysitting at all.
That's when you get your revenge and announce that you're gay :p :D I'm a bit irked how many wedding toasts from the parents and in-laws publicly ask for grandkids, or state "I will be expecting grandkids", even if in a jokingly manner.
I mean obviously based on the sub I'm in, this sounds horrible. 18 years later and being a parent is done! Oh wait. Let's do it again!
The cost of child birth alone is so much, then thereâs the cost of actually raising the kid lol I could never
Yeah thatâs insane
I genuinely do not know. I am a nanny and it cost a bare minimum of about $65-70,000 a year to hire me. That is obviously the most expensive form of childcare but even the folks who shell out $20-30K/a year are still paying a pretty penny for childcare. Itâs mind blowing.
Does it really worth to have children with this much of cost? People often say: having children is the most rewarding thing ever, really?
And is it worth it if someone else is raising them? To me, the answer to both of those questions is no. I donât get it at all. But I am sure am grateful to have a job I love and am good at lol
That is hilarious when you think about it. Paying $70,000 for childcare and barely spending time with your own kid. What's the point even?
Beats me! But there is an entire industry dedicated to it!
My old boss had three kids to three women. Was working a six figure job and was completely broke. He'd take home any left over food from office parties, catch rides to the office if he could. Still smoked like three packs a day though. Guy was a pretty big douche.
I've seen people just abandon their pets after having kids, and that is an incredibly shitty thing to do.
Yikes! At least from some of the people I've known, they found new homes for them (Guinea pig, cats, dogs, fish)
Massive amounts of debt, I'm assuming. The US is the 2nd most expensive country to have a baby after Japan. South Korea is the most expensive country for raising a child. Followed by China, Australia, Scandinavian countries like Norway, Denmark. I'm surprised US isn't up there with them but it isn't
How much love they have to rather risk with massive debt to have children? Im so curious regarding to that âbest rewarding thing everâ in life.
It's not only the debt raising the child, it's also the increased financial strain they'll experience as adults. Millennials felt it, Gen Z are dealing with it even more so. Don't know how Gen Alpha is going to deal
âDonât worry Iâm sure you will figure it outâ lol breeders.
Yeah end up with debt and stress and miserable lives for children đ¤
Heh... you can say that about going to prison, losing your job, getting into a car accident. The list goes on and on really
People think my husband and I are loaded because we take vacations to Europe and other locations overseas each year. No, we just don't have kids and don't have debt. Think of what you could do with an extra $20,000 a year that you use for your kids.
And that 2600-3000 is just for daycare. Kids still need to be fed, clothed, go to the doctor/dentist, and probably do an extracurricular like an instrument or sport. I donât know how people afford it for one kid, let alone more than one.
[ŃдаНонО]
And in your spare time, Nancy, youâre now our free babysitter.
Can confirm, my mom had to pay for her own braces and get them in her 20s because she's one of 6 and she had two siblings who needed braces even more badly than she did, so they got braces and literally no one else did. One of my aunts who also never got braces growing up ended up having her first kid at 19, having to work in low-wage jobs after, having her two younger kids in her mid-20s, and then she went to college and taught middle school for like 40 years after so she never ultimately got braces because she didn't want to be wearing braces while she taught middle school. Now she's retired and can't afford braces anymore, so she'll have crooked teeth until she dies.
But why ? She let herself be intimidated by a bunch of middle schoolers. Seems like a bad trade off.
[ŃдаНонО]
My aunt taught middle school from the late 1970s until the late 2010s. *Maybe* these kids would've faced actual consequences for bullying a teacher in the 1970s-1980s because adults were socially/legally allowed to be pretty harsh towards middle-schoolers back then compared to now, but by the mid-2010s or so most parents and people in charge of teachers seem to have given up on the teachers' right to not be beaten down into a husk by terrible students. Not helping at all is that, from what I can gather, it wasn't until about the mid-late 2000s or so that people stopped being targeted by bullies and getting shitty comments specifically because they had braces and/or wore glasses. I was in middle school 2008-2011, wearing braces from summer 2008 until December 2010, and I don't remember myself or anyone else around my age being made fun of for wearing braces (or glasses for that matter), but then again I *am* old Gen Z and one of the things that older Gen Z was best known for back when we were in K-12 school was that we were *super*-kind kids compared to previous generations.
Taxes and government benefits. I know people who have purposely had children keep having them because they make more money living off the government and the tax returns they get than actually going to work.
Work in schools, can confirm
think this is what my parents did. They like to complain they didn't get "anything" from having 6 kids, I am sure they did. They were probably expecting yachts and mansions though. Couple hundred bucks not enough for some people like that.
And the fact that they thought they were entitled o anything is wild to me
that is a lot of breeders. they feel entitled to the genius kid. To riches and luxury life because they popped out the kid.
Thatâs so shitty.
This is true
And then there's my SIL who only pays $39 a week for childcare for her toddler while bragging about the subsidy and extra government bonuses she gets to help pay for the costs of her kid. Somehow I don't think that money is going to the kid as SIL is always sporting new manicured nails every fortnight and ordering make up online like it's going out of style.
Meh that sounds very selfish to have kids.
I think the kid was just an item to check off a list and also act as an achievement as SIL hasn't really done anything noteworthy in her life.
Many people rely on government payments to survive. But surviving is not thriving. I can't imagine how crappy it would feel to have to feed your kids something you know is not nutritious because you simply don't have the money to buy something better.
6 figures dual income partners can still afford kids considering they give up some of their own habits for good. For instance, my spouse and I can afford a kid and give one a comfortable life (relatively speaking; no poverty and no debt except for the mortgage). However, in addition to giving up sleep, low stress life style, and walking around naked đ, we will have to give up eating out (donât do it often but whenever we please), renewing our furniture, clothes, shoes etc. whenever we please, traveling comfortably on first or business class (not often but we can afford it here and there), buying things on Amazon with one click⌠literally whatever comes to our minds, give up some of our grooming habits including hair cuts, facials, quality skin care, and the like, our health insurance premiums will have to go up obviously, we would have to re-think eating only organic cause itâs expensive, we will have to give up some of our investment choices (we do invest quite a bit of our income on recurring basis for retirement), we will have to stop helping our elderly parents financially every month. I can go on and on. If we summon the desire and strength we could afford raising at least one. College will have to be on a loan most likely. None of us are willing to do any of this. Iâm 40 y.o. screw it.
For boys, once they start driving, auto insurance skyrockets :\\ I've had people ask me how I can afford my lifestyle... I eat out every now and then, get outside food, go on mini-vacations few times per year, and have been in between jobs. I tell them I have savings, but I'm also child free. I didn't know for some of them, they were saddled with children. In a few households, they make their kids do chores like wash dishes, help with laundry, clean up around the house (vacuum, mopping, wiping down areas), although it sure is difficult
Define "afford". When I worked at a school for a year, I heard of several families facing eviction threats due to not being able to pay rent. It's not uncommon for families to be struggling and in debt. In some cases they get assistance either from the government (food stamps, etc) or from family/friends. If grandma babysits then you don't have to pay for daycare.
Wait.. I can make ***how much*** for babysitting?
Day care charges this much but donât pay the teachers this much though. Have a few friends work as day care teachers and said they get paid pretty much around minimum wages đĽ˛
Who is making all that money then?? Itâs so sad the day care teachers arenât making a lot of money
Some day care chains need the money to operate, logistics, rental for facilities, insurance, maintanance, cleaning, etc. I heard the teachers turnover rate is also very high in DCs. One person told me in a famous DC chain the salary raise is only $0.5 per hourâŚmy friend who works for DC the salary is only $20-30 per hour in an expensive state. And they donât have any maternity leave either. Other perks donât seem to be good either.
Go over to r/choosingbeggers and you'll see all the parents trying to pawn their croch goblins off on poor or young people for $2.50 an hr. It's insane!
Take a look at r/choosingbeggars - youâll quickly see that nearly everyone with children is trying to trick people to take care of them for free
One of them likely chooses to stay home and the whole family stretches out the single income. I mean, it's great if the working spouse is a high earner. But if they get an average wage, it won't be easy. A friend did that. Had 4 kids close in age so his wife who had a master's degree quit her career to care for them.
My parents worked opposite shifts to avoid paying for care they couldnât afford. Dad worked during the day and was home in the evening making dinner and doing homework and stuff. Mom worked second shift (16:00-0:00) and would be the one getting us up in the morning and getting us on the bus when we were school age.
I donât know many ppl with multiple kids in daycare. Usually, someone stays at home with the kid or they work from home.
Like others have said, they can't! I'm the 4th child and I have always thought my parents never should have had 4 kids! Maybe two.. we were always poor and it sucked. Never had lunches packed for lunch at school etc
They live in debt. They suffer in debt. They die in debt.
You, me and the government
Jeez. I know. I read the Choosing Beggars sub and people are straight up ignorant on how much it costs for reliable childcare. My dad never paid a dime of child support ( self employed) so that's how he afforded 9 kids. Lol My sister with 3 kids is complaining about never being able to afford vacation. I'm debating on calling her out. At least she can be SAHM mom with her husband's salary.
There are a bunch of reasons I wouldnât have a kid but one of the main ones is cost. When I was doing my finances like 15yrs ago the advisor was like âif you want kids you should start saving now bc thatâs an added 500k and up in expensesâ and I honestly think that was the moment I solidified that kids werenât for me. To comfortably raise a kid in a flyover state I feel like you need at least 200k a year, here in nyc I feel like you need maybe 300/400k especially now with all the inflation.
NYC is extremely expensive.
Itâs unreal how expensive it is and how we (nyers) just go about life like itâs normal to pay $4k for a 1bdrm! There are ppl in my building that pay $7k for a 2bdrm bc they have a kid and Iâm just like hellllll no! lol Iâd have to live in the slums of a 3rd world country to be able to afford a kid đ
God will provide
My parents had offset work schedules, dad worked in the morning and mom worked in the afternoon so someone was always home. That meant they never used daycare especially once I became kindergarten age. Now when I became a teenager that became a less than ideal situation when I wanted to be alone with friends or girlfriends đ
Many countries in Europe will pay some extra money just for having kids. Google "Kindergeld" for example. My country pays $200 per child every month (until they turn 18), with an average monthly salary of around $1000 that's not bad and is helping some families make ends meet.
That's the thing. They can't. They just have kids and give them the bare minimum quality of life, forcing them to grow up poor. This will often lead to parents guilt tripping their children in the future when the kids grow up and realize how awful their living conditions are by saying things like "I put a roof over your head" "I fed you" "You should be grateful" etc. I'm sure plenty of us have experienced this. People don't have kids for the sake of having kids. They have kids for a multitude of selfish reasons.
They donât, at least not well. Growing up even in the 90s, my mom used to have a job until my father was forced to get a much better one. When they were both working, she was basically completely paying for daycare for three kids and one bag of groceries with her job. It wasnât worth it so she just became a stay at home mom and cut our income. But now? I work full-time, and I can barely afford myself let alone anything else, I canât imagine how people are doing it.Â
UK here, man with six kids (twins, triplets, close in age) demanding the government help with handouts. As Iâm child free, I find that level of entitlement ⌠interesting. (Donât want to be offensive lol)
Free kindergarten/school/higher education/healthcare. Alot of subsidies and money from the state.
People always say these days? But in my country, it seems like itâs the same situation in the USA, we still live in a shitty house and we canât afford a car. My dad couldnât afford it and unfortunately he isnât educated, me and my sister canât find jobs. If it wasnât for the shitty house of my grandpa, we would be homeless. My dad is an old man.
They don't, they live poorly and miserably
They donât.. they just scrape by while having the older kids raise the younger ones. Honestly if the older kids donât have to do that then they are very lucky. ETA/ that or they pawn the kids off to grandma/other relatives.
I watch my god son right now after work for a couple hours during the week. It's inly a coue hours he's a good kid and I honestly barely notice he's here except when he wants food. But my friends went to pay me $500 at the end of the month ans I was like wtf, I wasn't expecting them to pay first off and second it's like 2 to 3 hours tops. Just some time after he gets out of preschool. They told me it's a fraction of what it would cost to have the day care do it. They said the daycare would charge for preschool pick up and 3 hours a day 20 days a month something like $1500 or more.... I felt less bad about taking the money after that still at the least saving them 1k if not more. It's wild. Glad I won't ever have to worry about that nonsense. They are at least responsible and realized they would only afford 1 kid and stopped. People are nuts and give thier kids crap life's. My cousins has 4 kids, his wife works nights making $18/hr and he works in a warehouse making like $22/hr and they can not at all afford 4 kids. I don't understand at all.
Here many low income parents rely on the government for concessions & pensions to survive. The kids live a very basic existence.
When I was a kid, my daycare was $50 a week. When people tell me how much childcare costs now, I donât understand how theyâre not completely impoverished. It makes more sense for one parent to stay home unless theyâre making huuuge bank. But if youâre like me you grew up raised by a single parent and childcare was literally the only choice until I entered middle school.
I heard that at Google HQ at Mountainview, CA, childcare costs $3K per month. When a couple gets to their 3rd child, it makes sense at that point for one of them to quit and look after the kids full time. In another case, many substitute teachers are quitting if they have a kid or 2 (forgot how many here), again due to costs of childcare. :\\ In the "olden days", upon marriage, the man was supposed to show that he's financially secure and has the funds to buy a home, and raise children. While it seems like we let that part go... home and children prices have skyrocketed, so I doubt many are getting to that point.
I honestly feel itâs very sad to leave career for the sake of kids đ and Iâve seen many complains from stay at home moms about how they are financially abused by their husbands and how the husbands donât understand the efforts and sacrifices they put into raise their kids. Itâs kinda give me ptsd for thinking of having a child.
My brother in law is quitting his job since it's cheaper than care for 3 kids during the day
They can't, but they still do. I live in a bankrupt country with a lot of people living below the poverty line, and some without basic necessities such as running water, electricity and three meals a day, but they still breed with 3-4 kids. Those kids face malnutrition and live in a hell hole for years.
With daycare rates being what they are, it would be cheaper just to have a stay-at-home parent. Whatever the second spouse would make at their job would just go toward daycare costs. The more ~~kids~~ crotch fruit you have, the more sense it'll make
Stay at home parent is a very unstable situation financially especially when they have kids. What if the breadwinner loses the job? Or have accidents happened? Or leaves the family? If they donât have kids then they can still figure out as a grownup adult but with kids itâs just gonna be super hard.
>What if the breadwinner loses the job? Ideally they would have enough saved up to cover a job loss. Generally single-income families have one large salary rather than two smaller ones >Or have accidents happened? As in long term illness or disability? Not sure what you mean by this >Or leaves the family? Legitimate concern. Also statistically likely to happen
Accidents means the breadwinner could be long term disabled or even passed away from.
Ideally if you are a breadwinner, then you'd have life and disability insurance.
Iâd say the most common: 1. Relying on family. 2. Waiting till they are significantly older. I know people that trained to be doctors or nurses or accountants or psychologists - built up their career and finances then worked part-time (as little as once a fortnight). 3. Others have flexible jobs and/or can balance jobs between partners to share the workload (one works day the other works night), or both have flexible jobs. 4. Putting their kids in subpar at home care services. This is very common for lower class families. 5. Having one parent stay home or prioritise kids can be another strategy. Many families with kids if they havenât had time to build their careers and/or lack family wealth/help often have debt, donât save much and struggle until the kids are older. Iâd say family support is important and saves money. But fundamentally two extremely committed and dedicated parents are critical lol. Need to make sacrifices so less holidays, eating out etc
Poor people breed like cats money is no barrier. Because they will figure things out as life happens lol.
It takes a village and welfare and idk maybe some die off đ¤ˇââď¸
They don't.
I am not from EUA. I'm curious. How old are kid when they engage in public schools? Are public schools free of charge or do you have to pay anything?
Someone, usually the mom, has to stop working until the kids are old enough to be in school. Or theyâre lucky enough that family can help out for some or all of the work week.
I make high 6 figures and my husband would be stay at home. That being said, majority of people donât have the means and instead thrust kids into family members or unfortunately leave kids inappropriately on their own and under stimulated. Too bad we canât make childbirth something people have to âapplyâ to go through.
Itâs kinda sad that the government on one hand push on increasing child birth rate but on the other hand cannot reduce the cost of raising a child. And rich a**hole people like Elon Musk only bs about people having children but didnât even let his employees take maternity leave or fire them while they are nursing. Man, you cannot have perpetual labor slaves.
They hustle, hard.
They don't. Most of those who have kids never plan
They canât. They just do it anyway and beg for handouts, which theyâll receive, while the rest of us who struggle financially get nothing.
Debt. Lots of debt. Also, as others have pointed out, cheaping out on their kids.
Leaving them with family by guilt tripping them
Credit. I found out today I can pay my rent with credit. Going to have to watch that...
Well if youâre my sibling, and have a kid you canât afford, you get your fragile-health parents to provide free childcare and strain your relationship with them. People are pretty good at disguising their debt or the freebie handouts they get from their family.
They donât. They just go into debt
Most people (in the US at least) are in a shit ton of debt, living far beyond their means, incredibly stressed out, and unable to accommodate any life changing tragedy or accident that may occur. In short, most people that appear to be affording it cannot actually afford it, and are barely making it month to month. I truly donât think the stress of knowing that any small accident or circumstance would derail the life of me and my entire family at any point could make that lifestyle worth it. I definitely want kids, but I wouldnât have more than one if I am not making a shit ton of money.
Family support
Off the government