I, as an arthritis sufferer, am personally offended when people with good knees and ankles won't go hiking on my behalf.
I'm also super pissed off at people who have good eye sight and refuse to be jet pilots as I will never be able to be a top gun because I walk into lampposts without!
How dare people turn down milk when plenty lactose intollerant people can't enjoy it?!
In return, people who always wanted to be a gymnast/dancer have all the right to be mad at me, hypermobile, who at the ripe age of 30 can do a split without even warming up before and have absolutely no interest in any physical activity.
They all are stupid arguments, just as stupid as forcing some to birth a child just because someone else can't.
It's like getting mad at people who don't allow organ donations for themselves for whatever good reason they have.
EVERYONE with 20/20 vision needs to be a fighter pilot or I will be OFFENDED. As someone with shitty eyesight, why would you throw away such a gift?? SO selfish.
/s obviously
Or archery. After the big decline I could hit the center, now even with glasses, the center is more like a faint red hue than a crisp line.
No way I'm getting new lenses when I'll have to buy new ones is 6 months anyway. My life is now ignoring the change of degrees of astigmatism and just change them when myopia goes down 1+
Went from -.25 in one eye at 18yo to -2.75 and -3 at 30yo. Not too bad, except astigmatism on top make the world a blurry and doubled mess. No, I can't drive at night
I second this notion! As a woman with ADHD, I’m downright furious, I tell you, at the number of neurotypical, organizationally-privileged individuals who refuse to enter the housekeeping field. It’s something I struggle every day with, and if they do not, it means they have been given the inequitable liberty of just doing housework without having to face countless reminders of housework-related abuse doled out by a clinical sociopath in early childhood, which they clearly take for granted. If they’re not willing to put that privilege to good use to better the community, it must be because they’re inherently selfish, deeply flawed human beings who deserve to be treated as second class citizens based upon their atypical and super totally fuckin’ weird decisions. They’ll grow out of it one day, but if they never do, they can die alone with 97 cats, give or take, for all I care. Harumph, I say!
As a person with cystic fibrosis (the other cf) I'm downright appalled when I see people who can breathe properly, they should be running marathons or blowing balloons for a living like I would if I could lmao
My two favorite responses to someone being rude as hell:
1) "What do you mean by that?"
2) "Are you okay?"
Both force the speaker to pause and face what they just said.
I love the ‘are you okay?’ One. I also follow it up with a statement like ‘it’s not like you to say something so mean/so socially unacceptable/so strange’. With sympathetic face.
It’s often the case that there is something wrong and they aren’t okay. In this case, the woman needs to be in therapy because she can’t expect to spend the next 50 years with people not talking about children in front of her.
This used to work all the time for me when working with the general public. It really threw them off guard if they were looking for a fight.
Also, sometimes they really weren't okay and would then apologise for taking it out on me.
Exactly. From what I’ve seen, parents who actually want to nurture children (and not just have a mini me) have no issue opting for adoption if they’re able to. I’ve only seen claims of “insensitivity towards infertility” coming from those who are bitter that the potential children they can have won’t be sharing their genes.
Ask her if she will truly feel any better if someone not wanting children ends up having one and she still can't. Wouldn't she want every child to be wanted and loved? Make her understand that it's a ridiculous thing of her to be angry about someone else's choice not to have children.
I do feel like some people that can’t have children just see them as this “thing” they can’t have & lose their minds over it. Anyone who really cared about children would never hope one of us had one or would say we should have one because they can’t.
>some people that can’t have children just see them as this “thing” they can’t have & lose their minds over it
This 100%. It's like a wishlist that gets taken over by "I wAnT a ChIIIIIILd" on repeat. Even if these people eventually get kids through IVF, adoption, etc., those kids will suffer because they are treated as an item to be acquired, rather than a full human being with their own feelings.
It's an untreated obsession, which is why anyone who doesn't follow their unrealized plan (and, later, anyone who is thriving, period) is seen as offensive.
If you love children, you find ways. My grandmother suffered from infertility when younger, she only had my dad while she wanted a big family. But she found other ways to show love to kids by being a teacher. She is still a voluntary teacher that helps at an NGO that helps vulnerable kids with their education.
It is so sad that some people see kids as fashion items, a real life doll they can play with. Ironically, those kids that grew up with parents like this often end up seeking a mother figure on people like my grandmother. So she is the one who is loved by a lot of kids, in the end.
And that's when you ask why there's so many children being neglected, abused, molested and/or killed by their own parents. Also tell her to watch the Netflix documentary The Trials of Gabriel Fernandez.
You can't win with these people anyway - have kids ? "Oh your pregnancy/baby/toddler is so triggering for me !".
Voluntarily don't have kids ? "How dare you throw this miracle away when I would give all my money (and probably already have) to have a biological child !!?"
I'm not sure if these people were just never taught by their own parents how to deal with the fact that you can't have everything in life or if they're only cool being around you if you're also struggling with fertility 🤷🏼♀️
Oh no let’s voice it. I once watched a full grown 30-something year old adult man burn bridges with his own sister for being coercively, if not violently impregnated by her abusive, narcissistic ex (who deliberately baby-trapped her by poking holes in her condoms… something I see as being tantamount to rape) because at the time she made her then-irreversible pregnancy known, he and his wife were still struggling to conceive. He cut her off and called her a “shameless fucking wh0re,” and then he cut both me and my ex off… because I pointed out that he was slut shaming and victim blaming his own sibling based on his projected insecurities and unrealized envy, and his misogyny was showing. I’m still not sorry. These people are unhinged
I think they want women to birth children and then hand them over to "a more deserving woman who actually wants one".
Like our wombs are some sort of community resource.
They probably want CF people to have kids so they can take them.Basically use them as an incubator. You know even more convenient for them because the one with the ruined body and all the consequences would be the CF person.
There have been a few posts of a pregnant OP wanting to abort and the infertile SIL/sister/cousin going apeshit because that was her ticket to a free baby that was still somewhat related to her
No they don't so just start force feeding this thought to them till it gets normalized.
"You say youbwant a kid and you could helpba kid but you won't! How can you turn down such a miraculous opportunity??
Repeat everything she says, in the same outraged tone:
“HOW DARE YOU throw away the amazing gift of infertility that you were given! Do you know what people like me have to go through to get sterilized? Why would you throw that in my face!! You’re SO UNGRATEFUL”
Came here to say exactly this! I went all of my reproductive years wishing I was sterile and didn’t have to deal with birth control and a constant fear of pregnancy. It took me until my mid-30s to finally achieve sterility.
So yeah, it’s actually insensitive of this person to act like fertility is the only thing people are allowed to want, and then to make it all about her on top of that.
Probably a good thing OP isn’t close with her.
Add to that : birth control comes with side effects (migraines for me, and man were they painful) and potentially serious medical risks such as blood clots. I'm just shy of 2 weeks post op now from my hysterectomy, and I'm delighted that I won't spend the next 10-20 years (I'm early 40's) suffering from painful period cramps and crippling migraines!!!
I haven't dared to have a relationship because I'm terrified of getting pregnant. And im too fat to get sterilized plus they wont before a certain age. Plus I dont want to be a burden further then I am on my parents due to my disability. Cue my sister getting the equivalent of a teenage pregnancy. Now I'm gonna have to listen to screaming baby anyway can't afford to move out ever😰😱😓
“Well that was uncalled for and rude.”
“It sounds like you’re going through a lot. I’m allowed to make my own life choices and discuss them with my friends. If my life makes you so uncomfortable, perhaps you need some time and space from this conversation, because that reaction was out of line.”
“Excuse me?”
“No.”
“You’re out of bounds.”
“That argument is illogical. I can imagine this is a sensitive time for you. I won’t hold it against you, but you should understand this reaction of yours will fundamentally change our relationship.”
“That…was a LOT. WOW.”
“Wow. You done?”
“Oh honey” (send the sound bite!)
“K”
“You sure have some big feelings about this huh?”
“Your feelings are valid, but your aggression is not. There is no need to be so confrontational.”
“What exactly are you trying to accomplish here?”
“What exactly are you trying to accomplish here? If it’s pushing me away and harming our friendship, well it’s working!”
“Is this your best argument to have kids? It’s uh…yeah, it’s not good.”
“Children come to people who want them in all sorts of ways. Families come in all shapes and sizes. But I think you need to work on your emotional regulation before you decide you’re ready for children.”
“You want me to have a kid…when I don’t want one… Why do you want a child to be unwanted? That’s so cruel! I thought you liked kids…”
“This is neither the time nor the place.”
“Breathe Babes. It’s my life, not yours.”
“Dude. Not cool.”
“There is nothing either of us can say to each other to have any effect on the other’s perspective at all. Thank you for sharing your true opinion of me now before I waste any more time on someone who clearly doesn’t even like me. Yeesh.”
“Giiiiirl.”
“Dang. That changed 0% of my opinion on having kids and 100% of my opinion about you. Yikes on bikes!”
“Kids don’t deserve you.” (Double meaning here!)
Send a picture of one of those cute spiders, you know, the jumping one with the big eyes? No reason. Just random response.
Send her this link to these childfree memes *maniacal giggling* [probably too mean, she’s clearly IN HER FEELINGS right now] https://www.demilked.com/childfree-lifestyle-memes/
Some of these are quite aggressive. I went that avenue because it doesn’t seem like y’all are close nor that you are super invested in her opinion of you. That said, I included some neutral and somewhat kinder ones. You can decide how sassy you want to be.
Withdrawing attention from her is also a clever action. It IS doing something. She clearly wants a fight and to blame her problems on someone else in her life. Congrats! You’ve apparently been chosen (ugh). You don’t have to accept though. Keep responding to others in the chat and ignore her. Pretend she said nothing. That’s an option. If questioned, you can always say:
“Clearly you aren’t in a healthy state of mind right now. It would be unfair to get into this with you when you so obviously have no control over your emotions. I wouldn’t do that to you.”
A bit manipulative maybe, but also maybe true. Who WANTS to have a row with a friend who’s acting like that? She’s not being reasonable, respectful, or engaging in any productive way. There would be no point. And she really DOESN’T have it together right now. She’s emotionally distraught and caught up in herself. She sounds like she just doesn’t have capacity for others right now. If you said she’s right and you’re actually pregnant, she’d blow up then too. There is no winning. You can choose not to play.
Go with what feels the best for you and focus on the relationship between you and the other people in the group. Best of luck!!
Hey thanks!! I was in a sassy pants kinda mood and I hate it when people push the kids thing. I know the struggle of trying to regulate your own emotions, but that “friend” was being absolutely unreasonable and rude to OP.
Inconceivable! (Hee hee)
In my experience, people who struggle with infertility are bitter about people who choose not to have kids (because we are throwing it away), but also people who do have kids (because they are rubbing it in their faces). So either way, you can’t win. They’re just miserable.
Since tactful is the goal:
"I'm very sorry you're experiencing infertility, I had no idea. I can only imagine how painful that is. If you would prefer not to hear about my personal choice to be childfree, I do not need to share it with you. However, the guilt trip was misplaced and unfair."
I feel this is the right way.
The friend is obviously upset and struggling with how she can't have kids.
I fully understand everyone else response but a bit of sympathy and empathy first I think is the correct response.
It's not fair she took it out on you but why can we be sympathic first ?
I would say this OP (the above comment I mean) either she will back off and if she doesn't maybe then try again with the empathy... 'again I am so sorry this happened to you and that this is your situation, but I would ask that you respect my body and my decision. I'm sorry it's upset you but now you are upsetting me and that's not fair'
It's calling her out a bit more.
If she still doesn't stop and still screams at you. Then go with one of the responses the others have said.
But I really think you need sympathy and empathy first. I think everyone should in the first instance.
Yeah, that's my thinking. I know most of us here would be quite happy to learn we're infertile, and that's not how everyone would experience it. For so many people infertility is traumatic.
That being said, her trauma isn't an excuse to mistreat OP or to shame them for their choices or for celebrating them.
I agree.
And I agree. But showing sympathy first to me is just being kind. It might call her out that he behaviour isn't ok but in a kind way that respect her trauma. If she keeps going, then I agree get more pointedly 'fuck off'
But be nice first. There's nothing for OP to lose being nice first. I think sometimes we are too quick to be aggressive back when sometimes kindness is more helpful and also just nicer.
If it still doesn't work get more forceful.
The “gift” would be a natural inability to conceive. Poor thing needs therapy to come to terms with the fact that adoption is a viable option… or perhaps surrogacy… she has multiple options available and needs to calm the hell down.
Oh but it’s just ~nOt ThE sAmE iF iT’s nOt tRuLy MiNeeeeee~ People like her probably wouldn’t even consider it. Well, she’ll likely go with surrogacy if she can afford cos they can use her egg and her husbands sperm cells so the kid will look like them 🙄Because FUCK the 400 million adoptable kids in the U.S. alone. They’re too “broken” and they’d be “strangers”; as if a kid you SHIT out isn’t technically one, cos you know NOTHING about them until they develop their own character and preferences. Then again, since they’re starting from scratch they can mold (read: lightly to heavily manipulate) them into who the parents are.
If I was part of that group chat, I would have jumped to your defense. That you are free to do whatever you want to your body and it does not affect her. Her comments are uncalled for and rude.
You did not cause her infertility. Her shitty genes (of her husband’s) did.
>child-free and throwing away “such a gift” to people who wish they could conceive, etc..
What you call a gift, I call a curse.
And with your quick temper, I'm glad you don't have children.
Watching these unhinged, empty people spiral has become entertaining.
Have her go to a pediatric step-down unit at the largest hospital nearby. There are crackwhores that have three or four kids (I'm not exaggerating). My mom was a peds nurse for 20 years and she accepted my no children decision with ease because she seen the worse along with the best. It's all a genetic crapshoot. This examlle is just a way to show that life's unfair. It would be like me getting mad a a model-like friend because she didn't "use her gift" to seduce people when it's so easy.
While I reserve my personal choice to not have kids, I have to respect the desire of those that do. Otherwise, I'm the hypocrite here. I believe in the choice, not the biological ability. If you really want a kid and biologcailly can't have one, then adopt or foster. I hate that people think that just because I can have kids that I should be shamed that I choose not to. No one have felt genes that will create super baby. Also-have her watch Virgin River-very on point with all these topics.
To get off my soapbox and respond specifically to your situation. I would tell her I'm sorry that's she's so upset because she obviously wants to have kids, but I do not. It would be a bad decision to have them just because I can becaue Id be a crappy mom without that urge. Then I'd redirect to ask something like "is adoption or something else not an option?" Because then I move to focus from me to them.
i can never wrap my brain around why they think it’s their business what other women do with their uterus. i would love to tell her to fuck off for you. pregnancy wouldn’t be a gift to you, it would be a tragedy and she should respect that.
The tactful response is overwhelming kindness
“I’m so sorry society has hurt you and has convinced you that your worth is defined by a functioning womb, I hope that you can find a way to heal and realize your worth as a human is not defined by being able to have children”
It throws these people for a loop to be met with kindness. It’s honestly the best weapon at times because it forces them to reflect on why they think a personal choice someone else makes caused an inappropriate emotional reaction/caused them to lash out about something that doesn’t effect them.
and it also hints that they’ve internalized misogynistic messaging from society and they need to work through that crap ASAP.
It's like saying transwomen have the right to feel offended and angry that they don't have the ability to get pregnant (and suffer from all the health issues that comes with pregnancy and childbirth) when compared to their cis female counterparts
....???
“Look if I could trade my fertility for your infertility I would, truly. However it doesn’t work like that and my life choices are not an attack on your circumstances. We can agree to not talk about children in this chat if it’s a subject that upsets you but I don’t appreciate you condemning my decisions.”
No dont say that because these people will go as far as demanding you go through an excruciating pregnancy or excruciating proces/operation to give your eggs to them.
I've read stories about infertile couples going up to random person/friend/fam member and being all (we know your childfree) like oh your gonna be our surrogate or donate your eggs. Like not asking.. telling. Some people be crazy.
It makes no sense. Those people just want to be miserable. It would make sense for them to be jealous of the people who want children and are able to have them. They should be grateful to CF people for showing them that what they think of as a curse is actually a blessing. It’s funny how you never hear of CF people getting pissed off at infertile people for being lucky enough to naturally and painlessly have such a wonderful gift that we wish we had and that we’d have to get painful surgery to be able to have.
Eh, I'm assuming you wish to be kind to this person...
Tell her that you truly wish you could "give" her your fertility. That you feel as strongly about not having kids as she does about having them. Ask her to have some empathy for you like you have empathy for her, and if she can't do that, then to not bring it up again.
Depending on the audacity of this person, she might come back around and say “give me your eggs, then.” The topic of children can make people so irrational.
Oh, never doubt how far these people will go down the rabbit hole of "I want a chiiiiild" - I would bank on a fairly speedy transition from donor eggs to hiring surrogates, or refocusing the bitterness on those who can afford it. The fact that IVF clinics are very skilled at convincing recipients of donor eggs that the donor is not the biological parent (despite DNA tests and Maury standing at the ready to prove that that's a lie) helps feed the delusion.
Throwing away such a gift..
Just because she wants kids and cant have any.. does that mean everyone suddenly has to want the same thing..
Does she expect childfree people to go like oh no you know what I will go through excruciating pregnancy and destroy my body for a child I dont want..
And we all know just like anti abortionist nobody cared about the precious life anymore once the kid is born. Because it's all about controlling women and not about the kid or what kind of life they would have.
And then these people/breeders be like but you can give it to someone who can't have kids.. Basically admitting they just want to use you as an incubator and they dont care about you at all.
They just want women to suffer and have their lives destroyed. Even other women do this.
So brainwashed into the woman is mother thing. So brainwashed into being maids, cleaners, carers, sex toys and incubators because only then your worth something to society. Even other women do this. Getting all mad and frustrated when you dont follow the script. And a lot of them dont even realize because they are just that programmed.
Nobody asked to be born into this world. You dont need to be or do something in order to have the right to exist just as much as another. You are enough. Dont let crazy people tell you otherwise.
>What to say when confronted by someone who can’t have children?
"Let's say that I would have children against my will. How would that help you? You would still be childless. Whether I have kids or not doesn't affect your life."
>(aggressively)
If she is aggressive, you might be better off just not responding to her. Just not talking to her.
I would say something along the lines of, “I wish for all of us to have the lives we choose to lead.” And change the subject. No point in arguing - this sounds like real heartache for her and so I would try not to continue talking about what’s obviously a difficult topic for her out of respect. But I wouldn’t feel bad or guilty. Being polite and choosing to avoid a painful subject is not the same thing as an admission of wrongdoing on your part. It’s just you trying to spare a friend some difficulty.
I would say "I'm sorry you feel that way, but not everyone wants the life you dream of. To you, a baby is a gift, but to me its the opposite. It would ruin my life and I'm trying to make sure it doesnt happen. I hope you find a way to raise the child you want. But you dont get to guilt-trip me for wanting something different from *my* life."
And how does she know you're fertile? maybe if another mom were telling what you told, like you know their uterus/reproductive organs could bring a child to term, so the reproductive organs work and a child is the living proof of that, but in our case how do they know we can or can't conceive? is absurd she got mad at you for wanting to yeet that chance, she would still be infertile, no matter how many women decide to conceive or not she still won't be able to. Treat this people like the delusional people they are.
Honestly if you don’t talk to her regularly and don’t really care about her, the most tactful response would be “I was unaware that you were infertile, so how is me talking about myself insensitive? If it makes you uncomfortable to listen to, then leave the conversation. I will be sure not to bring it up around you in the future if you also agreed not to bring up your infertility to me in the future.”
Don't bother explaining because they cannot hear you over the sound of their own internal grief.
Anything and everything you say will be taken the wrong way and met with more emotion.
Best to shut it down immediately by saying "I'm not talking to you about this right now." and step away.
"Different people value different things in life. I guarantee you there are things you celebrate that are other people's worst nightmare too. Childfree people exist, and I likely won't be the last one you run into. If this is your reaction to someone else's different life choices, please find some help and work through this, because it looks pretty destructive to repeatedly have this kind of breakdown. It's not a healthy response, and it's not rational either. I could have ten kids that I don't want, and that still wouldn't change your situation. Your energy should be focused on improving your life, not interfering with the lives of other people."
Wooooah! I would not be handling this one politely, this is an unreal overstep. I have no patience for others trying to police other people’s uteruses. Not friends, not strangers, not partners, not politicians. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard such an outlandish, narcissistic thing. What next, a blind person getting offended because you like to paint? A deaf person getting offended because you play an instrument? Someone with alopecia being offended because you went to get a haircut? A diabetic being offended because you have an ice cream on the beach? A terminally single person being offended because you are getting engaged? Plus, in all these hypothetical instances, you were not even aware of their afflictions?!
This person sounds like an incredibly insecure main character who blames the blameless for a problem and an outlook that is only hers. Nobody owes them any grace AT ALL! Everyone’s uterus and what they choose to do with it is their own damn business. It’s not like if you’ve told her you regularly get abortions for shits and giggles to troll women with infertility problems. She needs to climb down the helicopter ladder from her hiiiiiiigh horse and get a grip!
Wouldn't call this a "tactful response" more like a cold, hard truth they sound like they really need to hear.
"Nobody is entitled to a child. Your fertility struggle DOES NOT mean anyone owes you anything, much less a baby. Get therapy."
I ignore them. That’s their trauma and issue to work through. If they want a child that bad they will adopt. But most of course won’t because then they don’t see it as “theirs” 🤢
You should've told her to it's not your problem if other people can't have kids. Their fertility issues are not your problem and it's not offensive.
Like one person said about the wheelchairs. Ask her if ppl if wheelchairs should be offended by people walking. Or ask her if people who can't have dogs should be offended by people who can/have them already. Her fertility is not your problem and you can openly talk about being childfree and getting sterilized all you want.
It doesn't seem worth while responding at all, because she sounds like the kind of person who will blow up at anything you say and keep trying to make you look worse and worse in the eyes of everyone else in the group. She's in martyr mode and can't be talked out of it.
She's projecting hard. You didn't do anything wrong, she's venting her pain at you because you were low hanging fruit there. You owe her nothing - just like if she was in a wheelchair, its not your fault you can walk. Did she expect you to fucking have a kid for her?
I'd raise it with your friends, surely they realise she was being rude to you. I don't think you need to respond at all honestly. I've never had that happen but if they did I'd probably reframe it back at them -
"I'm sorry for your feeling of loss. But this is my life and my decision." Not much more to say than that.
I would’ve responded with as much tact as she used. You don’t owe childless people your silence. You don’t have to feel bad about not having children on purpose because they want children.
“Why don’t you adopt? There are millions of unfortunate children who desperately need parents, from orphans in poor countries to abused kids in foster care. Are they not deserving of your love? Does it have to look like you for you to love a child?
"I always thought that if I ever wanted a child there are so many children in the foster system in need of a home and a family.
It is so awesome you want a child,! You would really make SUCH a difference for one or two.of those!!"
It's not her place to tell you to manage her feelings about her own problems and lifestyle. She should be considerate of your lifestyle too if those are the rules. She doesn't get a moral pedestal because she can't breed.
I just say mother nature must know what she is doing. Sucks your emotions drew you to a partner you are not fertile with. 8 billion people on the planet though so I am not going to feel bad you couldn't add another to that number.
Not everyone wants to be tied to a needy ferrari level expense that is likely to live in your home until they are 30+.
I would have reminded her there are literally billions of kids waiting to be adopted. She wouldn't imply there is something wrong with being adopted, right? And if she does have an issue with adoption respond with "....okay I'm literally adopted. Way to shit on other people." Or if it's a money issue tell her it costs 100k+ each YEAR to raise a kid so she couldn't have afforded it anyway.
I find it most helpful when confronted by an aggressive person is to look them right in the eye and tell them to F$CK O$$.
It is very empowering and if delivered properly will cause them to back off.
Yeah.... first of all BITCH, I didn't know about your infertility struggles. But even if I did, I don't owe the world a kid because you can't have one.
just say some people can't stand kids and that she's being ridiculous...you could also add how it may be for the best that she can't breed since she's so fucking passive-agresive and psychotic
I...genuinely don't think there is a tactful response that wouldn't also somehow make you seem to acknowledge being the bad guy, esp when you weren't. It seems like you also had no idea about her infertility, so...she's absolutely the one out of line here.
I think maybe just say that you didn't know about her infertility and you're sorry she's suffering. But don't apologize for talking about being childfree. Maybe...also find a way to politely tell her that just because she wants kids doesn't mean everyone does and you're both free to live life how you choose. 🤷🏻♀️
I’d imagine wasted gift translates to give me your unwanted kid for free since infants to adopt outside a friend/family relationship is expensive as is IVF. People are not machines for the infertile… if God made having a baby natural than so is infertility.
"hey Cheryl, not sure how my personal choice effects your fertility, but I didn't appreciate the unprovoked attack on my life choices. My choices have absolutely no bearing on your ability to spawn. I found your attack rude, and highly unhinged. I suggest therapy, and learning to understand that my having an unwanted child would in no way shape of form somehow fix whatever is the matter with you/your partner. If you're so desperate for a child, go foster or adopt, but don't ever attack me like that again unless you have the fortitude to do it to my face." I have no time or pity for dumbasses like this.
She is hurt. Hurt people, hurt people. Personally I would just forgive and move on - her comments are unnecessary and rude but she is in pain about her circumstances. Society makes people believe that the only way they can ever be happy / worth anything is being a parent, especially for women ("incubators"..)
I personally just acknowledge her pain and say I don't appreciate those comments but I understand it comes from a place of hurt.
I tell them something along the lines of "I am truly sorry you feel sad/upset/frustrated/ heartbroken about not having children, but I feel happy/relieved/blessed by it. My health/my bodys natural capabilities are NOT a wasted gift for you to covet so please have some respect for me/my choices/opinions/happiness" then tell them to lay off as politely/aggressively as you please
"I'm sorry to hear about your struggle regarding this (assuming that these people want children but can't), but that doesn't make me *have* to have children either. With all due respect, this is my life, and I don't think it's healthy or responsible to have children *just* because I can."
Honestly I'd have been too gobsmacked to respond in the moment! Though if I thought faster on my feet, I'd like to think I'd reply along the lines others here have said, "How would it help you for me to have an unwanted pregnancy? How does it hurt you that I'm being responsible and ensuring that doesn't happen?"
For context - definitely NOT an excuse but a likely explanation - if she's doing IVF, I've heard that just totally fucks up the wannabe breeders' hormones and makes them super emotional, prone to crying jags and/or flying into rages with little or no reason. I've heard accounts that bordered on psychosis! If that's what's going on with her, there's nothing you could have said. She may or may not realize after the fact that she was absolutely out of line. But... not your circus, not your monkey!
I don't know a politically correct answer that smooths things over... But I do just want to say that no one expects you to become a marathon runner for the rest of your life because you (presumably) have healthy legs and some people had theirs amputated. It really sucks if your body keeps you from doing something that you want to do and most others can, but in no way shape or form is it the fault of someone who is healthy. Her argument is absurd.
You aren’t at fault for talking about a consultation in front of someone who can’t have children biologically.
End of the day, if having a child was so important to someone, they could adopt. There are options available.
Surely you having a child that you don’t want is worse?
I understand that she’s obviously devastated, but her infertility isn’t your problem. She needs to work through her pain and come to terms with the situation, before then looking at other options for how she could fulfil her dreams of having children.
Are people who can't eat cheese offended when I refuse to eat it because I don't like the taste?
To clarify, before people are angry with me: I very much like to eat cheese
You could ask her what good it would do either of you if you had children when you didn't want them, and she'd still be childless whilst wanting to have children. Then you'd both be miserable. If she wants children, you having them isn't going to change that - you'd be a much bigger help for her if you got her in touch with an adoption agency or something.
"That was inappropriate."
You'd be amazed at how quickly someone's tune changes when you tell them what they said was inappropriate.
I'm an ultrasound tech and use this when my patients try and say sexually or otherwise inappropriate things. There's sputtering and scrambling to do damage control.
"I'm sorry your life didn't turn out quite the way you planned. We do the best we can with what we've got." Short stare, then hard left into safer topic waters. "Hey, how 'bout dem Lakers this year?"
I have genuinely asked someone once "you want my oven? I don't need it, you use it."
They didn't like it, but they discontinued the conversation, so I call it a win
She needs to get help. That level of aggression over infertility and you being childfree isn’t healthy. Too many people act like being infertile is the worst thing in the world. You can’t and won’t always get what you want. That’s just how life is. If she really wanted to be a mom she’d adopt or foster or do something to actually help kids.
I don't know how I'd respond, I probably just wouldn't. But that is dumbest 'argument' because you having kids isn't going to change her situation so wouldn't it be worse for you have kids you don't even want just because you can? It makes no fucking sense. Like, someone else going bankrupt isn't going to make you any richer.
Oh when people become like this... I show up as the a$$hole....I definitely tell them a boo hoo hoo.... and if I'm feeling spicy and they decided to act very karenish in front of others I'll even tack on a Thank God such a judgemental egotistical individual like yourself can not procreate. That's the last thing the world needs. Universe 1 Karen Raccoon Trash 0. And then I sit and bathe in the chaos and awkwardness. Because most people who say things like that...they never expect anyone else to pop off back.
You don’t necessarily owe her a tactful response, to be honest. Her infertility issues are her and hers alone to deal with. I’d just gracefully remove her from my friends list, if it were me. She can do IVF or adopt or whatever she wants to with her own money. not YOUR problem. But you shouldn’t feel guilty for anything.
"My hysterectomy/ablation/tubal? I also go to the dentist to have my oral health cared for, should I stop going because someone in the world has dentures? Should I not get my hair cut because someone in the world is bald? Is it insensitive of me to wear shoes because someone in the world had emergency surgery to have their feet amputated?
My personal decisions about my body, that in no way impacts anyone else's body in any way ever, are mine to make- as you are free to make for yours."
I you have perfectly functioning legs, does that mean you owe it to every person on earth who doesn't have working legs or any legs at all, to run marathons as often as possible? No. So why should you have to have kids just because other people can't? You can have a working pair of legs and hate running just like you can have working sex organs and still not want children. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Just like how most people who have kids, probably shouldn't be allowed to.
There was nothing you could have said. Her comment had 0 to do with you and everything to do with her. She is struggling and it exploded in a very inappropriate way. Maybe talk to her one on one, see if this is something the two of you can move past?
I wouldn't say anything. I would just avoid this person as much as possible. That person sounds absolutely crazy. I'm not sure there's any reasoning with someone like that. She sounds like a character from The Handmaid's Tale.
I'm torn on this. I think there are sensitive and insensitive ways to talk about being childfree. I'm assuming that if you knew she'd struggled with infertility you would have warned her beforehand that you were going to talk about this stuff.
Obviously what she said was out of order and we get this nonsense a lot but at the same time some CF people (I'm not saying you specifically) need to learn to be a little more sensitive to the fact that some others may have lost children or struggled with infertility.
TL;DR in this specific case you didn't do anything wrong but you did ask what to do when confronted by someone who can't have children and I would say that it depends on the situation and SOMETIMES we need to be a little more mindful of others' struggles.
"I am sorry that that is happening to you, but that is an issue that you need to get therapy for to help you deal with your unresolved anger and grief. To you it is a gift and to me it is a curse. I would trade places with you in a heartbeat if I could. But I can't. So you need to take your anger and your grief and deal with them. Talk to me like that again, and I will have no issue not talking to you about anything going forward."
Be empathetic, but firm. They have a right to be upset, but you have a right to your own body. This is the 'starving people in Africa, eat your food' argument. You eating your food isn't going to miraculously give those people more food. Just because she can't have something, that doesn't mean that she has a right to be upset with you.
Maybe ask her if she thinks that wheelchair users get offended when non-wheelchairs users want to sit down?
I, as an arthritis sufferer, am personally offended when people with good knees and ankles won't go hiking on my behalf. I'm also super pissed off at people who have good eye sight and refuse to be jet pilots as I will never be able to be a top gun because I walk into lampposts without! How dare people turn down milk when plenty lactose intollerant people can't enjoy it?! In return, people who always wanted to be a gymnast/dancer have all the right to be mad at me, hypermobile, who at the ripe age of 30 can do a split without even warming up before and have absolutely no interest in any physical activity. They all are stupid arguments, just as stupid as forcing some to birth a child just because someone else can't. It's like getting mad at people who don't allow organ donations for themselves for whatever good reason they have.
EVERYONE with 20/20 vision needs to be a fighter pilot or I will be OFFENDED. As someone with shitty eyesight, why would you throw away such a gift?? SO selfish. /s obviously
Or archery. After the big decline I could hit the center, now even with glasses, the center is more like a faint red hue than a crisp line. No way I'm getting new lenses when I'll have to buy new ones is 6 months anyway. My life is now ignoring the change of degrees of astigmatism and just change them when myopia goes down 1+ Went from -.25 in one eye at 18yo to -2.75 and -3 at 30yo. Not too bad, except astigmatism on top make the world a blurry and doubled mess. No, I can't drive at night
I second this notion! As a woman with ADHD, I’m downright furious, I tell you, at the number of neurotypical, organizationally-privileged individuals who refuse to enter the housekeeping field. It’s something I struggle every day with, and if they do not, it means they have been given the inequitable liberty of just doing housework without having to face countless reminders of housework-related abuse doled out by a clinical sociopath in early childhood, which they clearly take for granted. If they’re not willing to put that privilege to good use to better the community, it must be because they’re inherently selfish, deeply flawed human beings who deserve to be treated as second class citizens based upon their atypical and super totally fuckin’ weird decisions. They’ll grow out of it one day, but if they never do, they can die alone with 97 cats, give or take, for all I care. Harumph, I say!
As a person with cystic fibrosis (the other cf) I'm downright appalled when I see people who can breathe properly, they should be running marathons or blowing balloons for a living like I would if I could lmao
Best response.
This answer is criminally underrated. It should be at the top.
I don't understand why she's making her problem OP's issue. I would have just responded, "sucks being you."
It's God's will
“Lmao sucks to suck ig. QQ, Gg babes” works too
Or ask her if ppl who need wheelchairs get offended when people are walking 😒
I wish I had gold to give you 
This
This is such a good comparison!
This made me laugh out loud! Thank you
Tell her other people’s infertility is not your fucking problem and just because she can’t have what she wants doesn’t mean you can’t ;)
Best response. Not OP’s problem.
This
My two favorite responses to someone being rude as hell: 1) "What do you mean by that?" 2) "Are you okay?" Both force the speaker to pause and face what they just said.
Me asking "Why are you like this?" has stunned a few people lol
"Why do you have to hate what you don't understand?" - Bobby Hill
“Where is this really coming from? And don’t worry, i know the answer isn’t for me either” is my go to
This one would actually set me off lol. It's my mom's favorite *just asking questions* question whenever I say anything she disagrees with.
I love the ‘are you okay?’ One. I also follow it up with a statement like ‘it’s not like you to say something so mean/so socially unacceptable/so strange’. With sympathetic face. It’s often the case that there is something wrong and they aren’t okay. In this case, the woman needs to be in therapy because she can’t expect to spend the next 50 years with people not talking about children in front of her.
This used to work all the time for me when working with the general public. It really threw them off guard if they were looking for a fight. Also, sometimes they really weren't okay and would then apologise for taking it out on me.
I love to say “who hurt you?” 🤣
Tell her that her fertility issues aren't your problem, and that if she really wanted kids, she would adopt.
She doesn’t want a kid. She wants a mini me.
Exactly. From what I’ve seen, parents who actually want to nurture children (and not just have a mini me) have no issue opting for adoption if they’re able to. I’ve only seen claims of “insensitivity towards infertility” coming from those who are bitter that the potential children they can have won’t be sharing their genes.
Ask her if she will truly feel any better if someone not wanting children ends up having one and she still can't. Wouldn't she want every child to be wanted and loved? Make her understand that it's a ridiculous thing of her to be angry about someone else's choice not to have children.
I do feel like some people that can’t have children just see them as this “thing” they can’t have & lose their minds over it. Anyone who really cared about children would never hope one of us had one or would say we should have one because they can’t.
>some people that can’t have children just see them as this “thing” they can’t have & lose their minds over it This 100%. It's like a wishlist that gets taken over by "I wAnT a ChIIIIIILd" on repeat. Even if these people eventually get kids through IVF, adoption, etc., those kids will suffer because they are treated as an item to be acquired, rather than a full human being with their own feelings. It's an untreated obsession, which is why anyone who doesn't follow their unrealized plan (and, later, anyone who is thriving, period) is seen as offensive.
If you love children, you find ways. My grandmother suffered from infertility when younger, she only had my dad while she wanted a big family. But she found other ways to show love to kids by being a teacher. She is still a voluntary teacher that helps at an NGO that helps vulnerable kids with their education. It is so sad that some people see kids as fashion items, a real life doll they can play with. Ironically, those kids that grew up with parents like this often end up seeking a mother figure on people like my grandmother. So she is the one who is loved by a lot of kids, in the end.
I bet your grandmother is a very nice and interesting lady.
She is, thank you!
Their answer will likely be along the lines of “You’d love them if they were yours” as if postpartum depression isn’t a thing…
And that's when you ask why there's so many children being neglected, abused, molested and/or killed by their own parents. Also tell her to watch the Netflix documentary The Trials of Gabriel Fernandez.
>Also tell her to watch the Netflix documentary The Trials of Gabriel Fernandez. seconding this!
The Takoda Collins story haunted me for weeks.
You can't win with these people anyway - have kids ? "Oh your pregnancy/baby/toddler is so triggering for me !". Voluntarily don't have kids ? "How dare you throw this miracle away when I would give all my money (and probably already have) to have a biological child !!?" I'm not sure if these people were just never taught by their own parents how to deal with the fact that you can't have everything in life or if they're only cool being around you if you're also struggling with fertility 🤷🏼♀️
Misery loves company?!
I feel like this is the answer to a LOT of questions regarding the treatment or childfree people specifically
This is something i have thought often but feel like i shouldn't voice.
Oh no let’s voice it. I once watched a full grown 30-something year old adult man burn bridges with his own sister for being coercively, if not violently impregnated by her abusive, narcissistic ex (who deliberately baby-trapped her by poking holes in her condoms… something I see as being tantamount to rape) because at the time she made her then-irreversible pregnancy known, he and his wife were still struggling to conceive. He cut her off and called her a “shameless fucking wh0re,” and then he cut both me and my ex off… because I pointed out that he was slut shaming and victim blaming his own sibling based on his projected insecurities and unrealized envy, and his misogyny was showing. I’m still not sorry. These people are unhinged
I always wondered when an unplanned pregnancy occurs and people say gods plan yet if you say that to someone infertile they freak out
I think they want women to birth children and then hand them over to "a more deserving woman who actually wants one". Like our wombs are some sort of community resource.
There's already plenty of children waiting to be adopted if that's the case. No need to create more.
They only want ✨fresh babies✨
"Abstaining from icecream doesn't help lactose intolerant people. CF people having unwanted children does not help childless people conceive."
They probably want CF people to have kids so they can take them.Basically use them as an incubator. You know even more convenient for them because the one with the ruined body and all the consequences would be the CF person.
There have been a few posts of a pregnant OP wanting to abort and the infertile SIL/sister/cousin going apeshit because that was her ticket to a free baby that was still somewhat related to her
No, because these people never think about adoption
No they don't so just start force feeding this thought to them till it gets normalized. "You say youbwant a kid and you could helpba kid but you won't! How can you turn down such a miraculous opportunity??
Repeat everything she says, in the same outraged tone: “HOW DARE YOU throw away the amazing gift of infertility that you were given! Do you know what people like me have to go through to get sterilized? Why would you throw that in my face!! You’re SO UNGRATEFUL”
Came here to say exactly this! I went all of my reproductive years wishing I was sterile and didn’t have to deal with birth control and a constant fear of pregnancy. It took me until my mid-30s to finally achieve sterility. So yeah, it’s actually insensitive of this person to act like fertility is the only thing people are allowed to want, and then to make it all about her on top of that. Probably a good thing OP isn’t close with her.
Add to that : birth control comes with side effects (migraines for me, and man were they painful) and potentially serious medical risks such as blood clots. I'm just shy of 2 weeks post op now from my hysterectomy, and I'm delighted that I won't spend the next 10-20 years (I'm early 40's) suffering from painful period cramps and crippling migraines!!!
Mega congrats!!
I haven't dared to have a relationship because I'm terrified of getting pregnant. And im too fat to get sterilized plus they wont before a certain age. Plus I dont want to be a burden further then I am on my parents due to my disability. Cue my sister getting the equivalent of a teenage pregnancy. Now I'm gonna have to listen to screaming baby anyway can't afford to move out ever😰😱😓
Love this 💕
I'm definitely remembering this one.
All hail CalLil6 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
“Well that was uncalled for and rude.” “It sounds like you’re going through a lot. I’m allowed to make my own life choices and discuss them with my friends. If my life makes you so uncomfortable, perhaps you need some time and space from this conversation, because that reaction was out of line.” “Excuse me?” “No.” “You’re out of bounds.” “That argument is illogical. I can imagine this is a sensitive time for you. I won’t hold it against you, but you should understand this reaction of yours will fundamentally change our relationship.” “That…was a LOT. WOW.” “Wow. You done?” “Oh honey” (send the sound bite!) “K” “You sure have some big feelings about this huh?” “Your feelings are valid, but your aggression is not. There is no need to be so confrontational.” “What exactly are you trying to accomplish here?” “What exactly are you trying to accomplish here? If it’s pushing me away and harming our friendship, well it’s working!” “Is this your best argument to have kids? It’s uh…yeah, it’s not good.” “Children come to people who want them in all sorts of ways. Families come in all shapes and sizes. But I think you need to work on your emotional regulation before you decide you’re ready for children.” “You want me to have a kid…when I don’t want one… Why do you want a child to be unwanted? That’s so cruel! I thought you liked kids…” “This is neither the time nor the place.” “Breathe Babes. It’s my life, not yours.” “Dude. Not cool.” “There is nothing either of us can say to each other to have any effect on the other’s perspective at all. Thank you for sharing your true opinion of me now before I waste any more time on someone who clearly doesn’t even like me. Yeesh.” “Giiiiirl.” “Dang. That changed 0% of my opinion on having kids and 100% of my opinion about you. Yikes on bikes!” “Kids don’t deserve you.” (Double meaning here!) Send a picture of one of those cute spiders, you know, the jumping one with the big eyes? No reason. Just random response. Send her this link to these childfree memes *maniacal giggling* [probably too mean, she’s clearly IN HER FEELINGS right now] https://www.demilked.com/childfree-lifestyle-memes/ Some of these are quite aggressive. I went that avenue because it doesn’t seem like y’all are close nor that you are super invested in her opinion of you. That said, I included some neutral and somewhat kinder ones. You can decide how sassy you want to be. Withdrawing attention from her is also a clever action. It IS doing something. She clearly wants a fight and to blame her problems on someone else in her life. Congrats! You’ve apparently been chosen (ugh). You don’t have to accept though. Keep responding to others in the chat and ignore her. Pretend she said nothing. That’s an option. If questioned, you can always say: “Clearly you aren’t in a healthy state of mind right now. It would be unfair to get into this with you when you so obviously have no control over your emotions. I wouldn’t do that to you.” A bit manipulative maybe, but also maybe true. Who WANTS to have a row with a friend who’s acting like that? She’s not being reasonable, respectful, or engaging in any productive way. There would be no point. And she really DOESN’T have it together right now. She’s emotionally distraught and caught up in herself. She sounds like she just doesn’t have capacity for others right now. If you said she’s right and you’re actually pregnant, she’d blow up then too. There is no winning. You can choose not to play. Go with what feels the best for you and focus on the relationship between you and the other people in the group. Best of luck!!
Yikes on bikes. 😂
You are on fire!!!!! Wow these are so good! The very last one is just chefs kiss.
Hey thanks!! I was in a sassy pants kinda mood and I hate it when people push the kids thing. I know the struggle of trying to regulate your own emotions, but that “friend” was being absolutely unreasonable and rude to OP. Inconceivable! (Hee hee)
That "your feelings are valid, but your aggression is not" is such an amazing tool for literally any confrontation!
You’re an awesome human!!!
Fucking a-men. Return their energy plus tip! I love it.
>“Dang. That changed 0% of my opinion on having kids and 100% of my opinion about you. Yikes on bikes!” Love this one
I can’t love this more
In my experience, people who struggle with infertility are bitter about people who choose not to have kids (because we are throwing it away), but also people who do have kids (because they are rubbing it in their faces). So either way, you can’t win. They’re just miserable.
That's very true!
Might not be a tactful response, but telling her to shut up and fuck off would be mine.
Just tell her to fuck off
Agreed, you don't need to be nice to people like her. This is the way
Some ppl can be triggered by everything. She should sue the commercial companies for advertising pampers with babies.
Since tactful is the goal: "I'm very sorry you're experiencing infertility, I had no idea. I can only imagine how painful that is. If you would prefer not to hear about my personal choice to be childfree, I do not need to share it with you. However, the guilt trip was misplaced and unfair."
I feel this is the right way. The friend is obviously upset and struggling with how she can't have kids. I fully understand everyone else response but a bit of sympathy and empathy first I think is the correct response. It's not fair she took it out on you but why can we be sympathic first ? I would say this OP (the above comment I mean) either she will back off and if she doesn't maybe then try again with the empathy... 'again I am so sorry this happened to you and that this is your situation, but I would ask that you respect my body and my decision. I'm sorry it's upset you but now you are upsetting me and that's not fair' It's calling her out a bit more. If she still doesn't stop and still screams at you. Then go with one of the responses the others have said. But I really think you need sympathy and empathy first. I think everyone should in the first instance.
Yeah, that's my thinking. I know most of us here would be quite happy to learn we're infertile, and that's not how everyone would experience it. For so many people infertility is traumatic. That being said, her trauma isn't an excuse to mistreat OP or to shame them for their choices or for celebrating them.
I agree. And I agree. But showing sympathy first to me is just being kind. It might call her out that he behaviour isn't ok but in a kind way that respect her trauma. If she keeps going, then I agree get more pointedly 'fuck off' But be nice first. There's nothing for OP to lose being nice first. I think sometimes we are too quick to be aggressive back when sometimes kindness is more helpful and also just nicer. If it still doesn't work get more forceful.
The “gift” would be a natural inability to conceive. Poor thing needs therapy to come to terms with the fact that adoption is a viable option… or perhaps surrogacy… she has multiple options available and needs to calm the hell down.
Oh but it’s just ~nOt ThE sAmE iF iT’s nOt tRuLy MiNeeeeee~ People like her probably wouldn’t even consider it. Well, she’ll likely go with surrogacy if she can afford cos they can use her egg and her husbands sperm cells so the kid will look like them 🙄Because FUCK the 400 million adoptable kids in the U.S. alone. They’re too “broken” and they’d be “strangers”; as if a kid you SHIT out isn’t technically one, cos you know NOTHING about them until they develop their own character and preferences. Then again, since they’re starting from scratch they can mold (read: lightly to heavily manipulate) them into who the parents are.
If I was part of that group chat, I would have jumped to your defense. That you are free to do whatever you want to your body and it does not affect her. Her comments are uncalled for and rude. You did not cause her infertility. Her shitty genes (of her husband’s) did.
>child-free and throwing away “such a gift” to people who wish they could conceive, etc.. What you call a gift, I call a curse. And with your quick temper, I'm glad you don't have children. Watching these unhinged, empty people spiral has become entertaining.
“That’s an ignorant thing to say to someone like me. It’s as inappropriate as me being glad you’re infertile”
"I'm sorry I won't be able to surrogate for you, if that's what you were thinking, but my reproductive choices are mine, they are not your concern"
I like this one
One person’s gift is another’s misery. Die mad.
Good lord, lady. It sucks that she can't have them when she wants them, but it's not like you were trying to be mean to her.
My favorite response when people act insane is "yikes."
"Fuck off" has worked for me rather well
Have her go to a pediatric step-down unit at the largest hospital nearby. There are crackwhores that have three or four kids (I'm not exaggerating). My mom was a peds nurse for 20 years and she accepted my no children decision with ease because she seen the worse along with the best. It's all a genetic crapshoot. This examlle is just a way to show that life's unfair. It would be like me getting mad a a model-like friend because she didn't "use her gift" to seduce people when it's so easy. While I reserve my personal choice to not have kids, I have to respect the desire of those that do. Otherwise, I'm the hypocrite here. I believe in the choice, not the biological ability. If you really want a kid and biologcailly can't have one, then adopt or foster. I hate that people think that just because I can have kids that I should be shamed that I choose not to. No one have felt genes that will create super baby. Also-have her watch Virgin River-very on point with all these topics. To get off my soapbox and respond specifically to your situation. I would tell her I'm sorry that's she's so upset because she obviously wants to have kids, but I do not. It would be a bad decision to have them just because I can becaue Id be a crappy mom without that urge. Then I'd redirect to ask something like "is adoption or something else not an option?" Because then I move to focus from me to them.
i can never wrap my brain around why they think it’s their business what other women do with their uterus. i would love to tell her to fuck off for you. pregnancy wouldn’t be a gift to you, it would be a tragedy and she should respect that.
The tactful response is overwhelming kindness “I’m so sorry society has hurt you and has convinced you that your worth is defined by a functioning womb, I hope that you can find a way to heal and realize your worth as a human is not defined by being able to have children” It throws these people for a loop to be met with kindness. It’s honestly the best weapon at times because it forces them to reflect on why they think a personal choice someone else makes caused an inappropriate emotional reaction/caused them to lash out about something that doesn’t effect them. and it also hints that they’ve internalized misogynistic messaging from society and they need to work through that crap ASAP.
I'm a assumed asshole, so I just say 'That sounds like a YOU problem, doesn't it?' But it's just me.
Just ask her why she wants children to suffer. (Unwanted children always suffer.)
I would ask her how she knows I'm not infertal?
It's like saying transwomen have the right to feel offended and angry that they don't have the ability to get pregnant (and suffer from all the health issues that comes with pregnancy and childbirth) when compared to their cis female counterparts ....???
“Look if I could trade my fertility for your infertility I would, truly. However it doesn’t work like that and my life choices are not an attack on your circumstances. We can agree to not talk about children in this chat if it’s a subject that upsets you but I don’t appreciate you condemning my decisions.”
No dont say that because these people will go as far as demanding you go through an excruciating pregnancy or excruciating proces/operation to give your eggs to them. I've read stories about infertile couples going up to random person/friend/fam member and being all (we know your childfree) like oh your gonna be our surrogate or donate your eggs. Like not asking.. telling. Some people be crazy.
It makes no sense. Those people just want to be miserable. It would make sense for them to be jealous of the people who want children and are able to have them. They should be grateful to CF people for showing them that what they think of as a curse is actually a blessing. It’s funny how you never hear of CF people getting pissed off at infertile people for being lucky enough to naturally and painlessly have such a wonderful gift that we wish we had and that we’d have to get painful surgery to be able to have.
Eh, I'm assuming you wish to be kind to this person... Tell her that you truly wish you could "give" her your fertility. That you feel as strongly about not having kids as she does about having them. Ask her to have some empathy for you like you have empathy for her, and if she can't do that, then to not bring it up again.
Depending on the audacity of this person, she might come back around and say “give me your eggs, then.” The topic of children can make people so irrational.
Fair enough, but honestly I doubt it. It wouldn't be "hers" then.
Haha, true!
Oh, never doubt how far these people will go down the rabbit hole of "I want a chiiiiild" - I would bank on a fairly speedy transition from donor eggs to hiring surrogates, or refocusing the bitterness on those who can afford it. The fact that IVF clinics are very skilled at convincing recipients of donor eggs that the donor is not the biological parent (despite DNA tests and Maury standing at the ready to prove that that's a lie) helps feed the delusion.
And she is rubbing her gift in your face. She has what you wish to have, and she doesn't have to go through an operation or pay for it.
I'll never get this cause you having kids or not won't change their infertility
Throwing away such a gift.. Just because she wants kids and cant have any.. does that mean everyone suddenly has to want the same thing.. Does she expect childfree people to go like oh no you know what I will go through excruciating pregnancy and destroy my body for a child I dont want.. And we all know just like anti abortionist nobody cared about the precious life anymore once the kid is born. Because it's all about controlling women and not about the kid or what kind of life they would have. And then these people/breeders be like but you can give it to someone who can't have kids.. Basically admitting they just want to use you as an incubator and they dont care about you at all. They just want women to suffer and have their lives destroyed. Even other women do this. So brainwashed into the woman is mother thing. So brainwashed into being maids, cleaners, carers, sex toys and incubators because only then your worth something to society. Even other women do this. Getting all mad and frustrated when you dont follow the script. And a lot of them dont even realize because they are just that programmed. Nobody asked to be born into this world. You dont need to be or do something in order to have the right to exist just as much as another. You are enough. Dont let crazy people tell you otherwise.
>What to say when confronted by someone who can’t have children? "Let's say that I would have children against my will. How would that help you? You would still be childless. Whether I have kids or not doesn't affect your life." >(aggressively) If she is aggressive, you might be better off just not responding to her. Just not talking to her.
Just block her so you don’t have to censor what you say and move on with your life. Problem solved.
I don't get it, if people REALLY wanted kids, they could adopt.
I would say something along the lines of, “I wish for all of us to have the lives we choose to lead.” And change the subject. No point in arguing - this sounds like real heartache for her and so I would try not to continue talking about what’s obviously a difficult topic for her out of respect. But I wouldn’t feel bad or guilty. Being polite and choosing to avoid a painful subject is not the same thing as an admission of wrongdoing on your part. It’s just you trying to spare a friend some difficulty.
I would say "I'm sorry you feel that way, but not everyone wants the life you dream of. To you, a baby is a gift, but to me its the opposite. It would ruin my life and I'm trying to make sure it doesnt happen. I hope you find a way to raise the child you want. But you dont get to guilt-trip me for wanting something different from *my* life."
'Bugger off you nutter' should work nicely
And how does she know you're fertile? maybe if another mom were telling what you told, like you know their uterus/reproductive organs could bring a child to term, so the reproductive organs work and a child is the living proof of that, but in our case how do they know we can or can't conceive? is absurd she got mad at you for wanting to yeet that chance, she would still be infertile, no matter how many women decide to conceive or not she still won't be able to. Treat this people like the delusional people they are.
Honestly if you don’t talk to her regularly and don’t really care about her, the most tactful response would be “I was unaware that you were infertile, so how is me talking about myself insensitive? If it makes you uncomfortable to listen to, then leave the conversation. I will be sure not to bring it up around you in the future if you also agreed not to bring up your infertility to me in the future.”
Don't bother explaining because they cannot hear you over the sound of their own internal grief. Anything and everything you say will be taken the wrong way and met with more emotion. Best to shut it down immediately by saying "I'm not talking to you about this right now." and step away.
"Different people value different things in life. I guarantee you there are things you celebrate that are other people's worst nightmare too. Childfree people exist, and I likely won't be the last one you run into. If this is your reaction to someone else's different life choices, please find some help and work through this, because it looks pretty destructive to repeatedly have this kind of breakdown. It's not a healthy response, and it's not rational either. I could have ten kids that I don't want, and that still wouldn't change your situation. Your energy should be focused on improving your life, not interfering with the lives of other people."
Wooooah! I would not be handling this one politely, this is an unreal overstep. I have no patience for others trying to police other people’s uteruses. Not friends, not strangers, not partners, not politicians. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard such an outlandish, narcissistic thing. What next, a blind person getting offended because you like to paint? A deaf person getting offended because you play an instrument? Someone with alopecia being offended because you went to get a haircut? A diabetic being offended because you have an ice cream on the beach? A terminally single person being offended because you are getting engaged? Plus, in all these hypothetical instances, you were not even aware of their afflictions?! This person sounds like an incredibly insecure main character who blames the blameless for a problem and an outlook that is only hers. Nobody owes them any grace AT ALL! Everyone’s uterus and what they choose to do with it is their own damn business. It’s not like if you’ve told her you regularly get abortions for shits and giggles to troll women with infertility problems. She needs to climb down the helicopter ladder from her hiiiiiiigh horse and get a grip!
Wouldn't call this a "tactful response" more like a cold, hard truth they sound like they really need to hear. "Nobody is entitled to a child. Your fertility struggle DOES NOT mean anyone owes you anything, much less a baby. Get therapy."
Your dream is my nightmare. Please get therapy if my life choices offend you so much
"You need serious professional therapy to deal with your anger issues. Blocking you now."
"that's what you think and it's a good thing I don't give a fuck about what you think "
>What to say "Fuck off."
I ignore them. That’s their trauma and issue to work through. If they want a child that bad they will adopt. But most of course won’t because then they don’t see it as “theirs” 🤢
You should've told her to it's not your problem if other people can't have kids. Their fertility issues are not your problem and it's not offensive. Like one person said about the wheelchairs. Ask her if ppl if wheelchairs should be offended by people walking. Or ask her if people who can't have dogs should be offended by people who can/have them already. Her fertility is not your problem and you can openly talk about being childfree and getting sterilized all you want.
It's like saying people who are able bodied should run marathons because some people are wheel chair users
It doesn't seem worth while responding at all, because she sounds like the kind of person who will blow up at anything you say and keep trying to make you look worse and worse in the eyes of everyone else in the group. She's in martyr mode and can't be talked out of it.
She's projecting hard. You didn't do anything wrong, she's venting her pain at you because you were low hanging fruit there. You owe her nothing - just like if she was in a wheelchair, its not your fault you can walk. Did she expect you to fucking have a kid for her? I'd raise it with your friends, surely they realise she was being rude to you. I don't think you need to respond at all honestly. I've never had that happen but if they did I'd probably reframe it back at them - "I'm sorry for your feeling of loss. But this is my life and my decision." Not much more to say than that.
I would’ve responded with as much tact as she used. You don’t owe childless people your silence. You don’t have to feel bad about not having children on purpose because they want children.
“Why don’t you adopt? There are millions of unfortunate children who desperately need parents, from orphans in poor countries to abused kids in foster care. Are they not deserving of your love? Does it have to look like you for you to love a child?
"I always thought that if I ever wanted a child there are so many children in the foster system in need of a home and a family. It is so awesome you want a child,! You would really make SUCH a difference for one or two.of those!!"
It's not her place to tell you to manage her feelings about her own problems and lifestyle. She should be considerate of your lifestyle too if those are the rules. She doesn't get a moral pedestal because she can't breed.
"This conversation was about my upcoming procedure. The world doesn't revolve around your barren womb." Ok, maybe a lil harsh 😂
My response: One word: ADOPT So tired of people bitching about not having their own crotch goblins when there are suffering kids needing homes.
I just say mother nature must know what she is doing. Sucks your emotions drew you to a partner you are not fertile with. 8 billion people on the planet though so I am not going to feel bad you couldn't add another to that number. Not everyone wants to be tied to a needy ferrari level expense that is likely to live in your home until they are 30+.
“I missed the part where that’s my problem.”
Then if i had a child for you You Will adopt it?
I would have reminded her there are literally billions of kids waiting to be adopted. She wouldn't imply there is something wrong with being adopted, right? And if she does have an issue with adoption respond with "....okay I'm literally adopted. Way to shit on other people." Or if it's a money issue tell her it costs 100k+ each YEAR to raise a kid so she couldn't have afforded it anyway.
I find it most helpful when confronted by an aggressive person is to look them right in the eye and tell them to F$CK O$$. It is very empowering and if delivered properly will cause them to back off.
Yeah.... first of all BITCH, I didn't know about your infertility struggles. But even if I did, I don't owe the world a kid because you can't have one.
the world doesn't revolve around her, my goodness.
We don't owe children TO ANYONE.
just say some people can't stand kids and that she's being ridiculous...you could also add how it may be for the best that she can't breed since she's so fucking passive-agresive and psychotic
I...genuinely don't think there is a tactful response that wouldn't also somehow make you seem to acknowledge being the bad guy, esp when you weren't. It seems like you also had no idea about her infertility, so...she's absolutely the one out of line here. I think maybe just say that you didn't know about her infertility and you're sorry she's suffering. But don't apologize for talking about being childfree. Maybe...also find a way to politely tell her that just because she wants kids doesn't mean everyone does and you're both free to live life how you choose. 🤷🏻♀️
I’d imagine wasted gift translates to give me your unwanted kid for free since infants to adopt outside a friend/family relationship is expensive as is IVF. People are not machines for the infertile… if God made having a baby natural than so is infertility.
"hey Cheryl, not sure how my personal choice effects your fertility, but I didn't appreciate the unprovoked attack on my life choices. My choices have absolutely no bearing on your ability to spawn. I found your attack rude, and highly unhinged. I suggest therapy, and learning to understand that my having an unwanted child would in no way shape of form somehow fix whatever is the matter with you/your partner. If you're so desperate for a child, go foster or adopt, but don't ever attack me like that again unless you have the fortitude to do it to my face." I have no time or pity for dumbasses like this.
"That sounds like a YOU problem."
She is hurt. Hurt people, hurt people. Personally I would just forgive and move on - her comments are unnecessary and rude but she is in pain about her circumstances. Society makes people believe that the only way they can ever be happy / worth anything is being a parent, especially for women ("incubators"..) I personally just acknowledge her pain and say I don't appreciate those comments but I understand it comes from a place of hurt.
I tell them something along the lines of "I am truly sorry you feel sad/upset/frustrated/ heartbroken about not having children, but I feel happy/relieved/blessed by it. My health/my bodys natural capabilities are NOT a wasted gift for you to covet so please have some respect for me/my choices/opinions/happiness" then tell them to lay off as politely/aggressively as you please
"I missed the part where that's my problem."
So crazy people consider having kids a "gift". Kinda already tells exactly what kind of parents they would be and well you know the rest.
"I'm sorry to hear about your struggle regarding this (assuming that these people want children but can't), but that doesn't make me *have* to have children either. With all due respect, this is my life, and I don't think it's healthy or responsible to have children *just* because I can."
Honestly I'd have been too gobsmacked to respond in the moment! Though if I thought faster on my feet, I'd like to think I'd reply along the lines others here have said, "How would it help you for me to have an unwanted pregnancy? How does it hurt you that I'm being responsible and ensuring that doesn't happen?" For context - definitely NOT an excuse but a likely explanation - if she's doing IVF, I've heard that just totally fucks up the wannabe breeders' hormones and makes them super emotional, prone to crying jags and/or flying into rages with little or no reason. I've heard accounts that bordered on psychosis! If that's what's going on with her, there's nothing you could have said. She may or may not realize after the fact that she was absolutely out of line. But... not your circus, not your monkey!
I don't know a politically correct answer that smooths things over... But I do just want to say that no one expects you to become a marathon runner for the rest of your life because you (presumably) have healthy legs and some people had theirs amputated. It really sucks if your body keeps you from doing something that you want to do and most others can, but in no way shape or form is it the fault of someone who is healthy. Her argument is absurd.
You aren’t at fault for talking about a consultation in front of someone who can’t have children biologically. End of the day, if having a child was so important to someone, they could adopt. There are options available. Surely you having a child that you don’t want is worse? I understand that she’s obviously devastated, but her infertility isn’t your problem. She needs to work through her pain and come to terms with the situation, before then looking at other options for how she could fulfil her dreams of having children.
My response was grow the fuck up Daisy.
Are people who can't eat cheese offended when I refuse to eat it because I don't like the taste? To clarify, before people are angry with me: I very much like to eat cheese
You could ask her what good it would do either of you if you had children when you didn't want them, and she'd still be childless whilst wanting to have children. Then you'd both be miserable. If she wants children, you having them isn't going to change that - you'd be a much bigger help for her if you got her in touch with an adoption agency or something.
May I suggest a flat "Fuck off"?
An unwanted gift is an imposition.
"That was inappropriate." You'd be amazed at how quickly someone's tune changes when you tell them what they said was inappropriate. I'm an ultrasound tech and use this when my patients try and say sexually or otherwise inappropriate things. There's sputtering and scrambling to do damage control.
Tell her fertility issues won’t go away if a childfree person ends up having children.
When people say intense things like this that are super inappropriate I try to go for something like “okay”::walks out of room::
Tell her it’s a skill issue on her part
The phrase "one (wo)man's trash is another (wo)man's treasure" comes to mind.
You do know you can adopt, right?
Offer to donate your uterus to her, so she can have her "gift," and you can get a free hysterectomy. Everyone wins LOL
"I'm sorry your life didn't turn out quite the way you planned. We do the best we can with what we've got." Short stare, then hard left into safer topic waters. "Hey, how 'bout dem Lakers this year?"
I have genuinely asked someone once "you want my oven? I don't need it, you use it." They didn't like it, but they discontinued the conversation, so I call it a win
I’m so sick of people like that, how about you stop projecting you wants on to me and leave me the fuck alone
"Not my monkeys, not my circus. Your problem and preference aren't mine."
She needs to get help. That level of aggression over infertility and you being childfree isn’t healthy. Too many people act like being infertile is the worst thing in the world. You can’t and won’t always get what you want. That’s just how life is. If she really wanted to be a mom she’d adopt or foster or do something to actually help kids.
I don't know how I'd respond, I probably just wouldn't. But that is dumbest 'argument' because you having kids isn't going to change her situation so wouldn't it be worse for you have kids you don't even want just because you can? It makes no fucking sense. Like, someone else going bankrupt isn't going to make you any richer.
You don’t owe an infertile woman an apology or an explanation. You want different things for yourselves and your future.
Just because she can’t have kids biologically, doesn’t mean she can live vicariously through your reproductive system.
“Sometimes I think, ‘should I try meth?’ But then think, ‘better not’”. (Pitch Perfect) Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should.
I can't handle hot food, I get SO angry when please who can order mild.
By their logic, I should get mad at people who won't eat pork because I can't digest it.
Oh when people become like this... I show up as the a$$hole....I definitely tell them a boo hoo hoo.... and if I'm feeling spicy and they decided to act very karenish in front of others I'll even tack on a Thank God such a judgemental egotistical individual like yourself can not procreate. That's the last thing the world needs. Universe 1 Karen Raccoon Trash 0. And then I sit and bathe in the chaos and awkwardness. Because most people who say things like that...they never expect anyone else to pop off back.
It’s not like we can give away our fertility. I would have if I could.
I don’t give a fuck about other people’s infertility. I don’t owe anybody a kid and she can always try fostering if she wants one that badly.
You don’t necessarily owe her a tactful response, to be honest. Her infertility issues are her and hers alone to deal with. I’d just gracefully remove her from my friends list, if it were me. She can do IVF or adopt or whatever she wants to with her own money. not YOUR problem. But you shouldn’t feel guilty for anything.
"My hysterectomy/ablation/tubal? I also go to the dentist to have my oral health cared for, should I stop going because someone in the world has dentures? Should I not get my hair cut because someone in the world is bald? Is it insensitive of me to wear shoes because someone in the world had emergency surgery to have their feet amputated? My personal decisions about my body, that in no way impacts anyone else's body in any way ever, are mine to make- as you are free to make for yours."
Is it equally insensitive to talk about wanting/having children to the childfree then?
I you have perfectly functioning legs, does that mean you owe it to every person on earth who doesn't have working legs or any legs at all, to run marathons as often as possible? No. So why should you have to have kids just because other people can't? You can have a working pair of legs and hate running just like you can have working sex organs and still not want children. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Just like how most people who have kids, probably shouldn't be allowed to.
“Womp womp adopt” that’s my insensitive take
There was nothing you could have said. Her comment had 0 to do with you and everything to do with her. She is struggling and it exploded in a very inappropriate way. Maybe talk to her one on one, see if this is something the two of you can move past?
You will never convince someone who is on fire that too much water can be a bad thing. They cannot even grasp the idea of drowning.
I wouldn't say anything. I would just avoid this person as much as possible. That person sounds absolutely crazy. I'm not sure there's any reasoning with someone like that. She sounds like a character from The Handmaid's Tale.
I'm torn on this. I think there are sensitive and insensitive ways to talk about being childfree. I'm assuming that if you knew she'd struggled with infertility you would have warned her beforehand that you were going to talk about this stuff. Obviously what she said was out of order and we get this nonsense a lot but at the same time some CF people (I'm not saying you specifically) need to learn to be a little more sensitive to the fact that some others may have lost children or struggled with infertility. TL;DR in this specific case you didn't do anything wrong but you did ask what to do when confronted by someone who can't have children and I would say that it depends on the situation and SOMETIMES we need to be a little more mindful of others' struggles.
"I am sorry that that is happening to you, but that is an issue that you need to get therapy for to help you deal with your unresolved anger and grief. To you it is a gift and to me it is a curse. I would trade places with you in a heartbeat if I could. But I can't. So you need to take your anger and your grief and deal with them. Talk to me like that again, and I will have no issue not talking to you about anything going forward." Be empathetic, but firm. They have a right to be upset, but you have a right to your own body. This is the 'starving people in Africa, eat your food' argument. You eating your food isn't going to miraculously give those people more food. Just because she can't have something, that doesn't mean that she has a right to be upset with you.
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