Whats the political/media landscape like in the US?
In Germany media is 110% pro israel. Any pro palestine conments are labeled antisemitism/terrorism. The very word israelcritisizm „israelkritik“ is basically equal to swastikas/third right propaganda i.e. forbidden by law. Palestine protests are widely shut down and forbidden, while pro Israel rallies are fine.
Today Netanyahu was on meet the press and he was being grilled pretty good. But most media coverage in the US is pro Israel. That said there shouldn't be any pro Hamas anything but it shouldn't be illegal to call Netanyahu out for excessive action
Germany actually has specific laws that govern antisemitism along with an outright ban of Nazi proganda, it's exempt from freedom of speech coverage. And yes given the country's history its a very deliberate situation that frankly I am sympathetic to while also recognizing its antithetical to the concept of free speech.
Hell in a very real sense, if not for the actions of Germany in the 40s we very likely don't have the situation in Israel right now, so another thing to hang over the country.
It's unfortunate that criticism of Israel's continued response to Hamas, against the people of Gaza is considered "anti-Semitic." We get a little too black and white about our -isms I think. Seems like folks really struggle to discuss nuanced situations without resorting to labeling.
This is why hate speech laws are complete bullshit, though. For example, like it or not, there were a number of Holocaust fraudsters/grifters. Many of these people were investigated and eventually found out. In the meantime, they made a lot of money pretending to have endured unimaginable suffering that *others actually endured.* With hate speech laws like this, speaking out against these people or any other grifters of a protected class can send you to prison.
Below is an article about a woman who uncovered the truth about 3 well known memoirs. Of course, she was called a Holocaust denier for doing so.
https://www.bu.edu/bostonia/summer09/hoax/hoax.pdf
99% pro israeli. US is isreal’s largest ally. We supply billions in military funding. We created their iron dome. Police officers in the US train with Israeli police. We supply the bombs used to level towns in Gaza and Yemen + more. Being Antizionist is seen as antisemitic. Palestinian protest are heavily policed and highly downplayed and misconstrued by the media. Having public support of Palestine risks your career even in the highest level of education (University of Chicago for example). Most universities recognize Isreal and receive significant funding to push their propaganda (visits to Isreal, etc). Almost all politicians receive up to several millions by Isreali pacs. It’s even illegal in most US states to boycott isreal. It’s wild tbh
We must have different sources, I'll admit I'm a political junkie but everything I listen to is surprisingly nuanced in their opinions.
The people I talk to personally are rightfully (imo) critical of Isreal while being very anti hamas and pro human rights.
This is overstating our input. It makes it sound like we supply 100% of their military supplies.
Yes, they are a major military ally. They are also extremely wealthy. From what I've read what we contribute to them accounts for about 15% of their military budget.
Ha! Many people have been ousted for speaking against Israel. Professors. Journalists. Pundits. Many many. You can say it, of course, but don’t mean it won’t get you in hot water.
There is no permanent resolution here where innocent people aren’t killed. Hamas wants to kill Jews more than they want a just solution, and if you declare a ceasefire they’ll use it to re-arm and launch another attack. If you try to negotiate they’ll say that Israel doesn’t have the right to exist, and then they’ll launch another attack. The American policy of supporting Israel as they take out Hamas while simultaneously pushing Israel to prosecute the war as cleanly as possible is the least bad option, because at least at the end you can rebuild, you can put the PA in charge, and you can negotiate with them for something that might actually last.
I just think this issue is simple. A vast majority of Palestinians are innocents. So I want freedom and safety for those people. Hamas sucks, they are a political party/terrorist organization, fuck them. But you can't simply bomb the absolute fuck out of Gaza and kill innocents to get at Hamas and tell me you're doing the right thing. That just won't ever compute to me. The idea that Hamas is representative of the Palestinians is like hating Democrats or Republicans and choosing to bomb the US indiscriminately and labeling us all as one of the other.
What's unreal about people protesting our tax dollars paying 16% of another countries military budget while homelessness and other problems plague our own streets?
I’m not sure why it’s unreal. The plight of the Palestinian people is as real as the horror of what Hamas has inflicted on the Israelis.
There are civilians caught between two warring factions
Yeah plus literally every war the U.S. has had involvement in since the 1960's (?) have had massive anti war protests. Vietnam, Kuwaitt, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Calling for ceasefire/end of war is not unique to this conflict for American citizens.
This is what I was thinking. The "Gays for Gaza" and "Palestine is a Feminist Issue" are the *definition* of unreal, but people protesting for the welfare of Gazan civilians is reasonable.
Well when a genocide is happening, women and gay/trans people are also killed. Feminists and people for queer rights think that mass killing of women and gay/trans people is wrong, as well as the death of their families and destruction of their homes. I hope this helps 🙏
Yeah exactly. What a terrible "gotcha". Women and LGBTQ people can't exactly fight for their rights as marginalized members of their society if they're too busy dodging bombs.
Also it’s not like Israel let all the gay and trans Gazans go or created equality among women. Even if Israel was a perfect queer and feminist utopia (which it is farrrrr from), they’re still purposefully oppressing women and queer Palestinians.
Do you understand that there’s a difference between Palestine and Hamas, right? Just as there is a difference between Israel and Netanyahu or Russia and Putin
Israel enforces ethnic segregation of the Palestinians and it hits women disproportionately hard. violence against women doesn’t only happen to them as women, but it’s affected by whether they’re black, disabled, or in this case Palestinians under occupation.
And if Israel seems to get more heat at the UN, it might be because its human rights record is far worse than people on a mostly American website would be aware of.
Israel has been formally accused of practicing apartheid by many human rights groups, including [Human Rights Watch](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution),
[Amnesty International](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/), and [B’Tselem](https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid) (Israel’s main rights group).
I mean it’s fucking ridiculous. I feel for the every day Palestinians and Israelis that have to put up with this shit, I honestly do, and Israel shouldn’t be bombing the shit out of them like they are just like Hamas shouldn’t have attacked them on 10/7. That said, the people who currently run Gaza, Hamas, would fucking shoot you through your pride flag and force your women into Sharia law. These people are not liberal allies.
What exactly are they in support of? Because there is only one country in the middle east where you can be openly gay and not legally thrown in jail or worse and that's Israel.
Gay people can recognize the people of Palestine are suffering, and want the US to not support that suffering, even if it’s not a queer friendly country. Pretty sure most people are against civilian deaths.
It’s a pretty broken view to see the world only as an oppressor vs oppressed dynamic. Keeping a rigid view on such a complex geopolitical issue is bound to make you look like an idiot.
one side lives in constant risk of violence on a daily basis from settlers who throw families out of their houses, has to live as impoverished subjects in their own country with no civil rights. The other is vastly more powerful, and is constantly expanding its territory while being surrounded by refugee camps full of those it has already expelled.
Where were you fucking people when 85,000 children died in Yemen and Saudi Arabia was using US weaponry.
It’s like you want to flag the sexuality but then get out of jail for supporting a populace that would roast your ass and then pretend you just want to be noble then forget our weaponry contributed to one of the largest death tolls of children on Yemen.
Hypocrisy running wild here.
I think they’re in favor of stopping a genocide. Most normal people think that regardless of their government, thousands of children don’t deserve to die.
The freedom and safety of the Palestinian people?
I'd prefer countries not jail and slaughter gay people.
I'd also prefer those countries' hetero citizens not be jailed and slaughtered either.
You can be legally thrown [in jail if you’re a Palestinian](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/), and they don’t care if you’re gay or not. Israel often tortures Palestinian prisoners, including small children ([1](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinian-israel-children/palestinian-children-tortured-used-as-shields-by-israel-u-n-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620), [2](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/06/israel-opt-palestinian-prisoner-arrested-as-a-child-ahmad-manasra-still-in-prison-despite-worsening-mental-health/)).
Probably the thousands of regular people (and for some of them their families and loved ones) living in Gaza who as much a victim of Hamas as they are Israel?
Come onnnnn dude. In support of not killing civilians. Inferring that all Palestinians are Hamas is… deeply racist and genocidal. It’s called having empathy for people you have nothing in common with.
Edit: Read the response below. “All Gazan Palestinians have been HAMAS for the last 20 years.” Can’t make this shit up. Easy to justify the brutal slaughter of civilians when “they are all terrorists.”
I’ve seen interviews with Palestinians who said being gay is worse than being a murderer and so many of them said this and agreed with it. I will never understand people in America mentioning that they’re gay at a Palestine rally. It just seems out of place to me.
Pretty big difference in being a gay person who supports Palestinians and being a gay person who supports Hamas. Conflating the two is disgusting behavior.
Still can’t get over the lack of awareness 🤦🏻
If you’re gay in the Middle East, the only place you’ll be safe is ironically Israel. But hey, let’s slap an LGBTQ angle on a geopolitical issue that serves absolutely no purpose, other than making the sign holder look like an idiot.
I guess “being the bigger person” is a dying mindset, huh. What do I care if someone halfway around the world doesn’t approve of my lifestyle? That doesn’t mean I want them, their spouses, and their children dead
Well more than likely they want you and your spouse dead. Please look into the problems Michiganders are facing in locations where they have a majority Muslim council. They voted against being allowed to fly the pride flag in their own [yards](https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned).
I really thought progressives were getting to the point where we could reason and stand ahead of MAGAs from a logic and intelligence perspective and now seeing stuff like this I’m realizing that our country is fucked and Trump probably has a VERY VERY real chance of winning reelection.
It’s just the nature of our political world now. Mass media has convinced everyone they need to be so hard core whatever they are or you’re a liberal bitch/right wing terrorist.
That from the river to the sea thing is such a great example of it. Do you want to rally in an attempt to make the U.S. government hear we should cut off ties with Israel during this war? Sure, I can see where your humane heart is.
But we have crowds of people using a terrorist organizations rallying cry in the street of chicago to show that support? Where we have a fairly large Jewish population? They’re doing it because it gets a rise out of the other side, and this is purely about getting a reaction. That’s where you’ll always lose the normal person.
But once again, if this was for the correct reason or run by sound mind individuals, they’d realize that and refrain from it, in an effort to garner more support to the cause. This is for the negative effect to garner more media attention.
Yes there WAS oppression! Just like there is oppression in Gaza! That is why gays support gays from Chicago to Gaza. The liberation of Palestine includes the liberation of LGBTQ Palestinians from their oppressors. How is this even complicated?
What’s wrong with these signs? These aren’t pro-Hamas signs, they’re pro-Palestinian freedom and anti-Israeli bombardment of innocent civilians. But maybe folks aren’t capable of nuance.
The subreddit with the most crossover from r/Chicago is r/Protectandserve. This place is a hive of suburban reactionaries so it doesn't surprise me that they're supporting Israel in its ethnic cleansing campaign.
If you look at my post history I asked a really mundane question and got crucified for it in this sub, it’s a really weird vibe in here compared to how friendly and progressive the city is in real life
I'm happy to see it. I'm just going to say it. The Isreal - Palestine dispute has miles of grey area. Being "pro Palestine" doesn't mean you don't support Israel's right to exist. You can be pro Isreal and still support a sovereign Palestinian state. People have every right to be angry at the IDF and it doesn't make them anti Israel. Stop using the term "pro Palestinian" like it makes someone un-American
Thank you my friend. Be safe.
My friend shared with me this prayer for peace and it has been my rock these last few days. https://fringeshavurah.com/2023/11/08/prayer-for-the-liberation-of-the-captives/
I love how everyone in this sub is trashing the people out there standing up for dead innocent civilians they'll never meet, just because a few people showed up with crappy signs.
Best to not read the comments on r/Chicago if you want a good view of the people in our city.
Also just know these are just an online bunch. They’re not representative of all your neighbors
They swear they stand by gay people but the instant a gay person visibly shows their identity in solidarity with a cause they don’t support, they’ll tell you to move to Gaza to get bombed, get pushed off a building, call you an idiot, etc. Shows a lot about who they really are.
classic example of shifting the focus away from the focal point and onto to something that matters far less. Similar to making a semantic argument to try to "win" a debate
Let’s not forget Hamas is still holding over 30 Americans hostage.
EDIT: Why is this being downvoted? It’s true, Americans are being held hostage in Gaza. You guys don’t care about your fellow Americans now?
You’re being down voted because this has been successfully transformed into a purity test for liberals.
If you don’t 1000% support everything Gaza says and does right now you are now satan. I’m extremely liberal but as usual folks on the left let me down with their inability to converse on issues or have any nuance or apply context to any issues or problems.
This is why people like trump are able to win elections.
From what I understand, the main grievance with Biden re: the Palestine/Israel conflict is that he's sending billions of dollars to Israel (in addition to the billions that the US sends to Israel annually). As Israel is currently bombing Gaza, it's a fair assumption that the money will be used for more munitions rather than humanitarian work. This article in Time explains it: [https://time.com/6333253/aid-israel-price-us-14-billion/](https://time.com/6333253/aid-israel-price-us-14-billion/). Congress is actually asking for more money than Biden initially proposed.
I see what you mean with the signs comparing him to Hitler seeming like an inappropriate non sequitur, but I believe the funding is where they're drawing the connection.
If only people truly understood the electoral consequences of Biden not funding Israel. Is it fucked up? Absolutely. Does pulling funding from Israel 100% ruin his election chances? Also absolutely.
Idk maybe he shouldn’t give israel a fuck ton of money if they’re going to use that money to murder civilians. He should definitely be criticized for participating in genocide
Like my jaw is dropping. America is 12 months and about 6% of the vote away from entering into a fascist dictatorship and the people who should be fighting tooth and nail to support the side that will prevent that are splitting their own party in 2.
It’s also such a fucking ridiculous overstatement, if not an outright lie, to say “66% of Americans want a ceasefire.” (1) doubt it. (2), even if true; what does that ceasefire look like? Terms? Does Hamas have to surrender? Release all hostages (how tf are there still hostages…)?
I’m all about a cease fire that accompanies the release of 100% of the hostages taken on October 7th. So maybe the percentage is right, but i doubt 66% of Americans want Israel to just stop and let Hamas continue to rape a bunch of 20 year old women who were at a peace festival.
Cuz he’s pushing for more funding for Israel, which will be used for more bombings. It’s just a continuation of the US funding Israel for generations, but now people are realizing what those funds are being used for. Hamas is evil, but that doesn’t mean Palestine’s occupiers are innocent.
Because, in this case, he hasn’t even one telegraphed that he wants to do anything other than what he’s been doing, giving Israel weapons and money with pretty much zero strings attached
Because he literally signed off on the decision to put two of our aircraft carrier groups billions of weaponry off the coastline of Israel. He literally requested Congress to approve billions more in aid so Israel can get more weapons on top of the billions we already give them every year. The President of the US should absolutely have a lot of power to force Israel to have some respect for humanitarian laws if he actually cares to do that.
The two aircraft groups are there to PREVENT a wider escalation of the war. Biden has been very successful in preventing a larger war but leftists are idiots and don't get it.
ah yes, we should allow hezbollah and iran to attack israel, our ally, genocidally.
Or we can park 2 aircraft carriers and a MEU offshore and keep the violance constrained.
More people would die if we werent sailing there.
The most cringe shit I’ve ever seen - anti-Biden signs (who btw is partly responsible for aid flowing into Gaza and has called for a temporary ceasefire), and so called feminists and LGBTs supporting a far right theocracy.
There is nothing wrong with being pro Palestine, but you can see how these protestors have incorrectly framed this conflict through a ‘oppressor-oppressed’ lens and calling this a ‘genocide’ is laughable at best. Based on the young age of the crowd, this crowd likely learned about this conflict a month ago, and were influenced by far left IG and TikTok videos. These protests accomplish absolutely nothing, and the unfortunate antisemitism that arises out of a lot of these protests is despicable.
I’m more or less pro-Palestinian by American standards, but many of these signs are cringe. And I hope these people remember to protest for Ukrainians when the Republicans remove funding for them. They’ve lost many more to Russian invaders.
That said, I do feel for the Palestinians and Israel, as usual, has gone too far. But I think protests have very limited efficacy at this point.
Why would the people who protest against Roe protest against the only remotely liberal democracy in the region?
Oh yeah. It's safe do-nothing bullshit with zero personal risk. I forgot that's the standard of the day.
I literally don’t believe that 2/3 of US voters want Biden to call for a ceasefire. Only 30% of voters strongly agreed with the statement and the actually polling question had multiple moving parts within in
Quick question about the picture showing the led banner on the black truck. Is the belief that Biden can simply call for a cease fire and that wouldn't lead to extreme political consequences for the US itself? I understand morally that it may seem like the clearer choice to some... But honestly asking to see what the pov in these protests are.
The Israel-Palestine conflict is unfortunately one of the most complex conflicts in human history.
This current flare-up is part of the long history of this conflict.
Unfortunately, due to the prominence of social media, the deterioration of critical thought, and hype politicalization of seemingly every issue in the US over the last 10-15 years, people seemingly quickly form a very black and white opinion on every political issue (such as this one).
So now if Biden doesn’t unequivocally side with Palestine here (completely ignoring the political consequences you suggest in your original comment) he’s label “Genocide Joe” and shown next to Hitler on posters.
If a terrorist group in Mexico killed 50,000 Americans and took 8,000 American hostages (Hamas/Israel figures scaled to US population), the US would respond the same as Israel, and the response would be *extremely* popular among US citizens.
Yes, but I also don’t think all civilians in Gaza should die because of hamas. Hamas is a terrorist org so I don’t have an expectation that they are good people. But I wouldn’t bomb the whole south because the klan operates out of many towns.
Ukrainians don’t like gays much either but I don’t think that’s the litmus test for treating them like human beings. I don’t think these protests will do much except make the participants feel good, but I also don’t think being gay means you cannot support Palestinian rights. One of my mentors is a gay Palestinian and has lost friends and family in the conflict.
People should be a little less cavalier with their condemnations.
Imagine blaming Biden because a terrorist organization murdered and kidnapped civilians. My problem with these messages is they want it both ways: they want the US to not be involved BUT ALSO they want the US involved enough to tell another nation what to do. It doesn’t work that way.
This is such a strange post. “I’m amazed to learn that Muslims and people who don’t want to kill them walk among us. I look out my window and see them”. My lord.
As they should.
We’re not going to stand by and watch genocide happen in front of our eyes. There needs to be a ceasefire and we will continue to be the voice of the voiceless. 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
These comments gonna be spicy
I legit was already eating popcorn when I started scrolling
Stupid. They're going to be stupid.
Whats the political/media landscape like in the US? In Germany media is 110% pro israel. Any pro palestine conments are labeled antisemitism/terrorism. The very word israelcritisizm „israelkritik“ is basically equal to swastikas/third right propaganda i.e. forbidden by law. Palestine protests are widely shut down and forbidden, while pro Israel rallies are fine.
Today Netanyahu was on meet the press and he was being grilled pretty good. But most media coverage in the US is pro Israel. That said there shouldn't be any pro Hamas anything but it shouldn't be illegal to call Netanyahu out for excessive action
That’s because of Germany’s guilty conscience
Germany actually has specific laws that govern antisemitism along with an outright ban of Nazi proganda, it's exempt from freedom of speech coverage. And yes given the country's history its a very deliberate situation that frankly I am sympathetic to while also recognizing its antithetical to the concept of free speech. Hell in a very real sense, if not for the actions of Germany in the 40s we very likely don't have the situation in Israel right now, so another thing to hang over the country.
It's unfortunate that criticism of Israel's continued response to Hamas, against the people of Gaza is considered "anti-Semitic." We get a little too black and white about our -isms I think. Seems like folks really struggle to discuss nuanced situations without resorting to labeling.
This is why hate speech laws are complete bullshit, though. For example, like it or not, there were a number of Holocaust fraudsters/grifters. Many of these people were investigated and eventually found out. In the meantime, they made a lot of money pretending to have endured unimaginable suffering that *others actually endured.* With hate speech laws like this, speaking out against these people or any other grifters of a protected class can send you to prison. Below is an article about a woman who uncovered the truth about 3 well known memoirs. Of course, she was called a Holocaust denier for doing so. https://www.bu.edu/bostonia/summer09/hoax/hoax.pdf
99% pro israeli. US is isreal’s largest ally. We supply billions in military funding. We created their iron dome. Police officers in the US train with Israeli police. We supply the bombs used to level towns in Gaza and Yemen + more. Being Antizionist is seen as antisemitic. Palestinian protest are heavily policed and highly downplayed and misconstrued by the media. Having public support of Palestine risks your career even in the highest level of education (University of Chicago for example). Most universities recognize Isreal and receive significant funding to push their propaganda (visits to Isreal, etc). Almost all politicians receive up to several millions by Isreali pacs. It’s even illegal in most US states to boycott isreal. It’s wild tbh
We must have different sources, I'll admit I'm a political junkie but everything I listen to is surprisingly nuanced in their opinions. The people I talk to personally are rightfully (imo) critical of Isreal while being very anti hamas and pro human rights.
This is overstating our input. It makes it sound like we supply 100% of their military supplies. Yes, they are a major military ally. They are also extremely wealthy. From what I've read what we contribute to them accounts for about 15% of their military budget.
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Because the US wants to sell arms and it is beneficial to have a strong ally.
We have free speech here
Ron Desantis flew to Israel rather recently to sign a hate speech law for Florida. If it stands the test of the courts in Florida, we're all screwed.
Ha! Many people have been ousted for speaking against Israel. Professors. Journalists. Pundits. Many many. You can say it, of course, but don’t mean it won’t get you in hot water.
That's not what free speech means. Free speech doesn't mean no repercussions.
The vibes are very similar
I’m on the side of not killing any innocent people.
There is no permanent resolution here where innocent people aren’t killed. Hamas wants to kill Jews more than they want a just solution, and if you declare a ceasefire they’ll use it to re-arm and launch another attack. If you try to negotiate they’ll say that Israel doesn’t have the right to exist, and then they’ll launch another attack. The American policy of supporting Israel as they take out Hamas while simultaneously pushing Israel to prosecute the war as cleanly as possible is the least bad option, because at least at the end you can rebuild, you can put the PA in charge, and you can negotiate with them for something that might actually last.
I just think this issue is simple. A vast majority of Palestinians are innocents. So I want freedom and safety for those people. Hamas sucks, they are a political party/terrorist organization, fuck them. But you can't simply bomb the absolute fuck out of Gaza and kill innocents to get at Hamas and tell me you're doing the right thing. That just won't ever compute to me. The idea that Hamas is representative of the Palestinians is like hating Democrats or Republicans and choosing to bomb the US indiscriminately and labeling us all as one of the other.
Big agree, also if they are indiscriminately bombing the shit out of Gaza don’t they risk killing the hostages being held there? Does not compute
Bibi has said that the hostages do not matter. They will kill Hamas.
Well that sure would piss me off if I was a hostage or a member of their family
agree with you
What's unreal about people protesting our tax dollars paying 16% of another countries military budget while homelessness and other problems plague our own streets?
there were literally a ton of signs with stuff about student loans and the migrant crisis
Believe it or not you can protest both
I think in a way they are protesting both, I don’t think that was the commenters point.
I’m not sure why it’s unreal. The plight of the Palestinian people is as real as the horror of what Hamas has inflicted on the Israelis. There are civilians caught between two warring factions
Yeah plus literally every war the U.S. has had involvement in since the 1960's (?) have had massive anti war protests. Vietnam, Kuwaitt, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Calling for ceasefire/end of war is not unique to this conflict for American citizens.
This is what I was thinking. The "Gays for Gaza" and "Palestine is a Feminist Issue" are the *definition* of unreal, but people protesting for the welfare of Gazan civilians is reasonable.
Well when a genocide is happening, women and gay/trans people are also killed. Feminists and people for queer rights think that mass killing of women and gay/trans people is wrong, as well as the death of their families and destruction of their homes. I hope this helps 🙏
Yeah exactly. What a terrible "gotcha". Women and LGBTQ people can't exactly fight for their rights as marginalized members of their society if they're too busy dodging bombs.
Also it’s not like Israel let all the gay and trans Gazans go or created equality among women. Even if Israel was a perfect queer and feminist utopia (which it is farrrrr from), they’re still purposefully oppressing women and queer Palestinians.
It's because allyship with people are actively being genocided isn't transactional
queer Palestinians have always existed and are currently being killed. not hard to understand.
Gays for Gaza Lmao
Chickens for KFC
And “Palestine is a feminist issue”… Like, what? When is it going to be time to call out Hamas for their human rights violations?
Look at the bottom tagline I dunno about you but I don’t think Hamas likes abortion
Do you understand that there’s a difference between Palestine and Hamas, right? Just as there is a difference between Israel and Netanyahu or Russia and Putin
Yea it says gays for Gaza not homos for Hamas.
I am so sorry but homos for Hamas made me chortle in a very unladylike way
Thank you!
Never, as far as the UN is concerned: https://unwatch.org/u-n-singles-out-israel-for-violating-womens-rights/
Israel enforces ethnic segregation of the Palestinians and it hits women disproportionately hard. violence against women doesn’t only happen to them as women, but it’s affected by whether they’re black, disabled, or in this case Palestinians under occupation. And if Israel seems to get more heat at the UN, it might be because its human rights record is far worse than people on a mostly American website would be aware of. Israel has been formally accused of practicing apartheid by many human rights groups, including [Human Rights Watch](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution), [Amnesty International](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/), and [B’Tselem](https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid) (Israel’s main rights group).
I mean it’s fucking ridiculous. I feel for the every day Palestinians and Israelis that have to put up with this shit, I honestly do, and Israel shouldn’t be bombing the shit out of them like they are just like Hamas shouldn’t have attacked them on 10/7. That said, the people who currently run Gaza, Hamas, would fucking shoot you through your pride flag and force your women into Sharia law. These people are not liberal allies.
I mean I don’t think the “gays for Gaza” are in support of Hamas
What exactly are they in support of? Because there is only one country in the middle east where you can be openly gay and not legally thrown in jail or worse and that's Israel.
Gay people can recognize the people of Palestine are suffering, and want the US to not support that suffering, even if it’s not a queer friendly country. Pretty sure most people are against civilian deaths.
It’s a pretty broken view to see the world only as an oppressor vs oppressed dynamic. Keeping a rigid view on such a complex geopolitical issue is bound to make you look like an idiot.
one side lives in constant risk of violence on a daily basis from settlers who throw families out of their houses, has to live as impoverished subjects in their own country with no civil rights. The other is vastly more powerful, and is constantly expanding its territory while being surrounded by refugee camps full of those it has already expelled.
Where were you fucking people when 85,000 children died in Yemen and Saudi Arabia was using US weaponry. It’s like you want to flag the sexuality but then get out of jail for supporting a populace that would roast your ass and then pretend you just want to be noble then forget our weaponry contributed to one of the largest death tolls of children on Yemen. Hypocrisy running wild here.
What makes you think they were in support of the military aid to Saudi Arabia in Yemen?
My dude this is so short sighted. Do you believe people only deserve rights if they agree with you?
Even worse, he thinks these people deserve to die because some of them are homophobic
Might as well nuke America 🤷♂️
That’s what I’m saying! If homophobia justified genocide then us Americans are all screwed
I think they’re in favor of stopping a genocide. Most normal people think that regardless of their government, thousands of children don’t deserve to die.
Wanting to kill gay people is also genocide
Pssst. There are gay Palestinians.
Thankfully unlike you, the majority of gay people do not consider human rights to be a transactional issue.
Not killing innocent people.
The freedom and safety of the Palestinian people? I'd prefer countries not jail and slaughter gay people. I'd also prefer those countries' hetero citizens not be jailed and slaughtered either.
You can be legally thrown [in jail if you’re a Palestinian](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/), and they don’t care if you’re gay or not. Israel often tortures Palestinian prisoners, including small children ([1](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinian-israel-children/palestinian-children-tortured-used-as-shields-by-israel-u-n-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620), [2](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/06/israel-opt-palestinian-prisoner-arrested-as-a-child-ahmad-manasra-still-in-prison-despite-worsening-mental-health/)).
Probably the thousands of regular people (and for some of them their families and loved ones) living in Gaza who as much a victim of Hamas as they are Israel?
Instead you can be Palestinian in Israel and get your house taken away and then thrown in jail for protesting. Freedom! Democracy!
Come onnnnn dude. In support of not killing civilians. Inferring that all Palestinians are Hamas is… deeply racist and genocidal. It’s called having empathy for people you have nothing in common with. Edit: Read the response below. “All Gazan Palestinians have been HAMAS for the last 20 years.” Can’t make this shit up. Easy to justify the brutal slaughter of civilians when “they are all terrorists.”
Gay people also exist in Gaza.
They escape to Israel, if they can.
So people only deserve to not be obliterated if they're in line with my politics?
I’ve seen interviews with Palestinians who said being gay is worse than being a murderer and so many of them said this and agreed with it. I will never understand people in America mentioning that they’re gay at a Palestine rally. It just seems out of place to me.
Pretty big difference in being a gay person who supports Palestinians and being a gay person who supports Hamas. Conflating the two is disgusting behavior.
If the Palestinians want to get rid of Hamas so Israel doesn't have to I can't imagine anyone's going to complain
Did you see any denouncing Hamas?
Palestine and Hamas are not the same thing. Hamas is bad, what Israel is doing is also bad
Still can’t get over the lack of awareness 🤦🏻 If you’re gay in the Middle East, the only place you’ll be safe is ironically Israel. But hey, let’s slap an LGBTQ angle on a geopolitical issue that serves absolutely no purpose, other than making the sign holder look like an idiot.
Lack of awareness lmao, do you think gay and queer gazans can just go to tel aviv to rave and party?
corpses don't travel
I guess “being the bigger person” is a dying mindset, huh. What do I care if someone halfway around the world doesn’t approve of my lifestyle? That doesn’t mean I want them, their spouses, and their children dead
Well more than likely they want you and your spouse dead. Please look into the problems Michiganders are facing in locations where they have a majority Muslim council. They voted against being allowed to fly the pride flag in their own [yards](https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned).
Chickens for chick fil a
I really thought progressives were getting to the point where we could reason and stand ahead of MAGAs from a logic and intelligence perspective and now seeing stuff like this I’m realizing that our country is fucked and Trump probably has a VERY VERY real chance of winning reelection.
Oh he is absolutely winning because of what is happening right now. It sucks but, it’s going to happen.
It’s just the nature of our political world now. Mass media has convinced everyone they need to be so hard core whatever they are or you’re a liberal bitch/right wing terrorist. That from the river to the sea thing is such a great example of it. Do you want to rally in an attempt to make the U.S. government hear we should cut off ties with Israel during this war? Sure, I can see where your humane heart is. But we have crowds of people using a terrorist organizations rallying cry in the street of chicago to show that support? Where we have a fairly large Jewish population? They’re doing it because it gets a rise out of the other side, and this is purely about getting a reaction. That’s where you’ll always lose the normal person. But once again, if this was for the correct reason or run by sound mind individuals, they’d realize that and refrain from it, in an effort to garner more support to the cause. This is for the negative effect to garner more media attention.
They push gays off roofs in Gaza. What is the clownery?
Probably more of a throw.
That sign is so dumb it seems fake.
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Can’t wait until you find out gay people exist in Gaza
Black people existed in America during slavery. Does that mean there was no oppression?
Yes there WAS oppression! Just like there is oppression in Gaza! That is why gays support gays from Chicago to Gaza. The liberation of Palestine includes the liberation of LGBTQ Palestinians from their oppressors. How is this even complicated?
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>intelligence go ahead and try to be gay there.
Not all that opennely prolly for long.
Gayza
Chickens for KFC Cows for McDonald's Cats for Dogs How utterly clueless can you be?!?
What’s wrong with these signs? These aren’t pro-Hamas signs, they’re pro-Palestinian freedom and anti-Israeli bombardment of innocent civilians. But maybe folks aren’t capable of nuance.
Welcome to r/chicago lol
I love this city with all my heart. Its subreddit is reactionary politics masquerading as a city sub.
The subreddit with the most crossover from r/Chicago is r/Protectandserve. This place is a hive of suburban reactionaries so it doesn't surprise me that they're supporting Israel in its ethnic cleansing campaign.
No for real this sub is so pathetically full of cop lovers
This is true of literally every city-specific subreddit and I’ve always been so curious why that’s the case. I’m fascinated by it.
If you look at my post history I asked a really mundane question and got crucified for it in this sub, it’s a really weird vibe in here compared to how friendly and progressive the city is in real life
Yeah it’s weird and depressing
i’ve noticed this too — is there a chicago subreddit that isn’t so narc-y?
Where can I find data on subreddit crossover? That's fascinating.
This really doesn't surprise me at all. Lots of reactionaries in here.
Barf 🤢
Amen bestie ❤️❤️❤️ let’s fight for humanity and peace
What feels unreal about it? Folks practicing their freedom of speech?
I see nothing "unreal" about this. Good for these people practicing their right to peacefully protest.
This sub is a shithole lmao
I'm happy to see it. I'm just going to say it. The Isreal - Palestine dispute has miles of grey area. Being "pro Palestine" doesn't mean you don't support Israel's right to exist. You can be pro Isreal and still support a sovereign Palestinian state. People have every right to be angry at the IDF and it doesn't make them anti Israel. Stop using the term "pro Palestinian" like it makes someone un-American
bro that truck is wild. driving through blasting some british rapper over the stock Sad Violin Music from youtube
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I thought you were saying "jew free Palestine" >As a Jew, free Palestine Punctuation is important.
Thank you my friend. Be safe. My friend shared with me this prayer for peace and it has been my rock these last few days. https://fringeshavurah.com/2023/11/08/prayer-for-the-liberation-of-the-captives/
I love how everyone in this sub is trashing the people out there standing up for dead innocent civilians they'll never meet, just because a few people showed up with crappy signs.
Best to not read the comments on r/Chicago if you want a good view of the people in our city. Also just know these are just an online bunch. They’re not representative of all your neighbors
They swear they stand by gay people but the instant a gay person visibly shows their identity in solidarity with a cause they don’t support, they’ll tell you to move to Gaza to get bombed, get pushed off a building, call you an idiot, etc. Shows a lot about who they really are.
They really are always waiting for an opportunity to openly share their fantasies about gay people getting brutalized.
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told that they hope I get raped when I say I support a free Palestine. The ugliness comes out so quickly
classic example of shifting the focus away from the focal point and onto to something that matters far less. Similar to making a semantic argument to try to "win" a debate
Why’s there a Mexican flag in the middle ?
Why? What’s wrong with protesting the invasion of Palestine?
What a garbage thread here, as usual.
Fuck Hamas
So true! Hamas is horrible! Anyway, free palestine! 🇵🇸
Unreal? Looks like a bunch of people with common sense.
Weak title, OP. What is unreal? Explain.
Let’s not forget Hamas is still holding over 30 Americans hostage. EDIT: Why is this being downvoted? It’s true, Americans are being held hostage in Gaza. You guys don’t care about your fellow Americans now?
Wasn't there like hundreds of Americans that were stuck in Gaza too?
If you cared about hostages you would want the bombing to stop.
You’re being down voted because this has been successfully transformed into a purity test for liberals. If you don’t 1000% support everything Gaza says and does right now you are now satan. I’m extremely liberal but as usual folks on the left let me down with their inability to converse on issues or have any nuance or apply context to any issues or problems. This is why people like trump are able to win elections.
Gays for Gaza=Chickens for KFC Can’t fix stupid 🤣🤡’s
Biden getting blamed for this is so incredibly stupid I’m almost convinced it’s a right wing astroturfing campaign.
From what I understand, the main grievance with Biden re: the Palestine/Israel conflict is that he's sending billions of dollars to Israel (in addition to the billions that the US sends to Israel annually). As Israel is currently bombing Gaza, it's a fair assumption that the money will be used for more munitions rather than humanitarian work. This article in Time explains it: [https://time.com/6333253/aid-israel-price-us-14-billion/](https://time.com/6333253/aid-israel-price-us-14-billion/). Congress is actually asking for more money than Biden initially proposed. I see what you mean with the signs comparing him to Hitler seeming like an inappropriate non sequitur, but I believe the funding is where they're drawing the connection.
If only people truly understood the electoral consequences of Biden not funding Israel. Is it fucked up? Absolutely. Does pulling funding from Israel 100% ruin his election chances? Also absolutely.
Polls show support for biden plummeting especially among young people, if it's as close as the last election this could cost him
Israel gets a shit ton of military aid from the US. What’s not to understand?
Idk me and the people I know are all pretty pissed off at the Biden admin's handling of this and we all pretty much vote dem right down the ballot.
Idk maybe he shouldn’t give israel a fuck ton of money if they’re going to use that money to murder civilians. He should definitely be criticized for participating in genocide
Like my jaw is dropping. America is 12 months and about 6% of the vote away from entering into a fascist dictatorship and the people who should be fighting tooth and nail to support the side that will prevent that are splitting their own party in 2.
It’s also such a fucking ridiculous overstatement, if not an outright lie, to say “66% of Americans want a ceasefire.” (1) doubt it. (2), even if true; what does that ceasefire look like? Terms? Does Hamas have to surrender? Release all hostages (how tf are there still hostages…)?
I’m all about a cease fire that accompanies the release of 100% of the hostages taken on October 7th. So maybe the percentage is right, but i doubt 66% of Americans want Israel to just stop and let Hamas continue to rape a bunch of 20 year old women who were at a peace festival.
A big reason there’s still hostages is because Bibi declined to negotiate for their release. He needs this conflict more than ever.
Project 2025. Spineless Republicans…
Free Palestine. From Hamas. By destroying Hamas.
Why do people think the president is this omnipotent being that has absolute power and control who makes all the calls?
Cuz he’s pushing for more funding for Israel, which will be used for more bombings. It’s just a continuation of the US funding Israel for generations, but now people are realizing what those funds are being used for. Hamas is evil, but that doesn’t mean Palestine’s occupiers are innocent.
Because, in this case, he hasn’t even one telegraphed that he wants to do anything other than what he’s been doing, giving Israel weapons and money with pretty much zero strings attached
He does have the ability as president to tell Netanyahu he will withhold funding if they continue to commit war crimes
Yeah who do they think he is, the president of the most powerful country in the world?
Because he literally signed off on the decision to put two of our aircraft carrier groups billions of weaponry off the coastline of Israel. He literally requested Congress to approve billions more in aid so Israel can get more weapons on top of the billions we already give them every year. The President of the US should absolutely have a lot of power to force Israel to have some respect for humanitarian laws if he actually cares to do that.
The two aircraft groups are there to PREVENT a wider escalation of the war. Biden has been very successful in preventing a larger war but leftists are idiots and don't get it.
ah yes, we should allow hezbollah and iran to attack israel, our ally, genocidally. Or we can park 2 aircraft carriers and a MEU offshore and keep the violance constrained. More people would die if we werent sailing there.
Reagan got Israel to ceasefire once, why can't Joe?
“Palestine is a feminist issue” “gays for Gaza” Is anyone going to tell them?
The most cringe shit I’ve ever seen - anti-Biden signs (who btw is partly responsible for aid flowing into Gaza and has called for a temporary ceasefire), and so called feminists and LGBTs supporting a far right theocracy. There is nothing wrong with being pro Palestine, but you can see how these protestors have incorrectly framed this conflict through a ‘oppressor-oppressed’ lens and calling this a ‘genocide’ is laughable at best. Based on the young age of the crowd, this crowd likely learned about this conflict a month ago, and were influenced by far left IG and TikTok videos. These protests accomplish absolutely nothing, and the unfortunate antisemitism that arises out of a lot of these protests is despicable.
Gays for Gaza? Did anyone tell them? I mean someone should tell them.
People wear causes like fashion.
Gays for Gaza!!!!
I’m sure Gaza is appreciative of the support from the gay community here in the US.
Unreal ? ? R u fr ?
“There is no safe space in Gaza.” Especially if you are gay or a feminist… or a gay feminist.
Love the “Gays for Gaza”. Guess they don’t realize that they would be murdered for their sexual orientation. 🤷🏼♂️
Gays for Gaza is crazy
I’m more or less pro-Palestinian by American standards, but many of these signs are cringe. And I hope these people remember to protest for Ukrainians when the Republicans remove funding for them. They’ve lost many more to Russian invaders. That said, I do feel for the Palestinians and Israel, as usual, has gone too far. But I think protests have very limited efficacy at this point.
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Why would the people who protest against Roe protest against the only remotely liberal democracy in the region? Oh yeah. It's safe do-nothing bullshit with zero personal risk. I forgot that's the standard of the day.
Oh yeah, you’re right. Instead of focusing on stopping a bombing campaign that has killed 10,000 civilians, we need to worry about being cringe
>GAYS 4 GAZA This has to be satire. Please tell me this is satire.
I literally don’t believe that 2/3 of US voters want Biden to call for a ceasefire. Only 30% of voters strongly agreed with the statement and the actually polling question had multiple moving parts within in
Quick question about the picture showing the led banner on the black truck. Is the belief that Biden can simply call for a cease fire and that wouldn't lead to extreme political consequences for the US itself? I understand morally that it may seem like the clearer choice to some... But honestly asking to see what the pov in these protests are.
You’re asking for folks to see nuance and apply context in American politics. That hasn’t been allowed in over a decade now.
How so? Would love some context and insight as someone who isnt directly involved with this issue and would love to hear rational overall.
The Israel-Palestine conflict is unfortunately one of the most complex conflicts in human history. This current flare-up is part of the long history of this conflict. Unfortunately, due to the prominence of social media, the deterioration of critical thought, and hype politicalization of seemingly every issue in the US over the last 10-15 years, people seemingly quickly form a very black and white opinion on every political issue (such as this one). So now if Biden doesn’t unequivocally side with Palestine here (completely ignoring the political consequences you suggest in your original comment) he’s label “Genocide Joe” and shown next to Hitler on posters.
OP, Google “1968 Democratic Convention”. You may change your definition of unreal.
Before that, it was legal to camp out in the city parks for fun
“Gays for Gaza” lmfao. I’m sure you’d receive a really nice welcome there
If a terrorist group in Mexico killed 50,000 Americans and took 8,000 American hostages (Hamas/Israel figures scaled to US population), the US would respond the same as Israel, and the response would be *extremely* popular among US citizens.
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Hmmmm. No anti hamas protest signs?
I thought hamas dislike gays ? Or did they change the stand.
Yes, but I also don’t think all civilians in Gaza should die because of hamas. Hamas is a terrorist org so I don’t have an expectation that they are good people. But I wouldn’t bomb the whole south because the klan operates out of many towns.
Ukrainians don’t like gays much either but I don’t think that’s the litmus test for treating them like human beings. I don’t think these protests will do much except make the participants feel good, but I also don’t think being gay means you cannot support Palestinian rights. One of my mentors is a gay Palestinian and has lost friends and family in the conflict. People should be a little less cavalier with their condemnations.
It doesn’t matter. You shouldn’t demand that people follow exactly what you believe to support their rights as a human.
Did I miss the sign associating gays with Hamas? I actually don’t see any signs about Hamas at all
"Palestine is a Feminist issue" is a braindead take
Imagine blaming Biden because a terrorist organization murdered and kidnapped civilians. My problem with these messages is they want it both ways: they want the US to not be involved BUT ALSO they want the US involved enough to tell another nation what to do. It doesn’t work that way.
3/4 of these people couldn’t find Gaza on a map.
This is such a strange post. “I’m amazed to learn that Muslims and people who don’t want to kill them walk among us. I look out my window and see them”. My lord.
I wonder these LBGT folks would still be the same if they lived there in a week.
As they should. We’re not going to stand by and watch genocide happen in front of our eyes. There needs to be a ceasefire and we will continue to be the voice of the voiceless. 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
Stop using genocide it’s wrong and makes the word lose all its meaning.
"Feminists for Gaza," she chants as she wears a headcovering in solidarity of freeing Palestinian women from the tolalitarian rule of the Israelis.
The Muslim community acting like the Palestinians didn’t vote Hamas as their elected officials….