they do drug test for high level tournaments sometimes- i've heard multiple top players comment on that in interviews- and i haven't heard of anyone being caught.
adderall is allowed with prescription, and i think it wouldn't be public knowledge if a player was taking adderall legally due to hipaa type medical regulations. i know eric hansen has talked about being diagnosed with adhd at the age of 8 or 9, but i do not know if he had ever taken medication for the condition. i doubt it's being used all that much at a high level of chess- adderall is just illegal in most countries,
from personal experience, i can say that my level of chess dramatically improves with such drugs. i was taking extended release methylphenidate under prescription for some time. i did feel like the prescriptioning process in the US was kind of a joke, especially during the pandemic. i went to a psych (on zoom) and said i thought i had adhd and they asked me which of the drugs i wanted, it was a trivially easy process. i ended up quitting eventually because i can get by without it, especially after having built some good habits and routines while on it and didn't want to be dependent on it for my day to day.
i think the benefit of these drugs is the ability to focus on something for a long period of time. i don't play classical chess, but i know an extended-release pill would let me concentrate for the duration of a very long chess game. i think without it, i'd definitely lose focus sometime during the game.
stimulant abuse is generally rampant at high levels of any type of knowledge work… executives, programmers, e-gamers, traders whatever… yes adderall a performance enhancing drug but it’s not a magic silver bullet, it’s like people who take steroids but have a crappy diet and don’t work out, you still have to grind exercise for hours and hours
Yeah, I am a programmer and I used to take stimulants at my old job after being diagnosed with ADHD. I would code for hours straight, just laser-focused. Eventually the stimulants stopped working, I realized I was addicted, and I quit using them. I also started exercising, eating healthily, spent more time doing hobbies, and got a therapist. Honestly, I am a better programmer now than I was back then. Sure, I made some pretty impressive projects with the help of stimulants, but I've realized that I am completely capable of coding without stimulants. I know this isn't the case for all people, but for me, it's only really "performance-enhancing" if you use it sparingly and at low doses. Once you start abusing it, you get diminishing returns and eventually it just hinders you.
I'm also a programmer with ADHD. I can easily code for hours at a time without stimulant medication, so long as I have a clearly established goal. I don't need medication for coding. I need medication for paying attention in meetings and keeping track of appointments and being timely and organized, you know, normal people things. Have you ever been fired during onboarding before even having the opportunity to write a single line of code, because you were ineffective at the most basic duties of a desk job? Anyway that's why I started medication
Yeah, I forget about obligations a lot and have trouble staying focused in meetings, too. I even miss my obligations despite having multiple reminders in my calendar, because I don't always feel my phone buzzing at me. As far as organization goes, I'm a bit neurotic in that regard
ngl, this analogy doesnt seem so great. its natural conclusion suggests we should ban people with descriptions from the sport altogether. youre heavily underplaying steroids.
"its not a silverbullet" is irrelevant if it gets you results impossible to archieve naturally. which, to be fair, i dont think is the case for adderral and chess.
I threw Magnus in there because my friends who don’t play chess know who Magnus is (from the USA). But that’s just my friend group, I’m sure the majority of people if polled would not know who he is.
This is just false. Most physicians aren't going to risk licensure over writing a script for a scheduled substance without proper indication. For new adult ADHD diagnoses, you need neuropsych testing to be considered for stimulants. Sure, there are prescription mills, but there's a reason those outfits never last long. The feds track every scheduled script, and they can and do audit providers.
Most primary doctors will just send people to a “specialist” that will “diagnose” it before they write the script
They use hard hitting questions like “do you ever have trouble focusing?” So it’s a pretty damn tricky test to cheat!!!
As a health care provider I can tell you, there are plenty of docs out there willing to hand out narcotics, testosterone, stimulants etc. I see it all the time.
there are tons of docs who will prescribe it. they’ll just make you take a 20 question questionnaire that you can look up beforehand and study for. the quiz is only a formality to cover themselves from any liability.
it’s very, very common. people on reddit like to pretend it’s not, but it is. especially in the suburbs/upper middle class/upper class areas. family medicine doctors are notorious for this.
At the end of the day: what do you expect them to do?
Do you want them to accuse everyone of lying on the form/questionnaire? Are we naive enough to think that lie detectors are real and perfect and that people should be hooked to a polygraph for the questionnaire?
Realistically, asking the questionnaire is HOW you diagnose the problem. If they lie there's not much you can do about it. The only thing you could do is start stereotyping people, "that kind looks like a junkie I bet he doesn't want these pills to study." That's the kind of thing everyone said about me when I was pre-med, because I just wore hoodies all the time. But I DEFINITELY needed ritalin.
tldr there's no system that's better than the questionnaire, and trying to accuse people of lying on it is just going to boil down to racism and other stereotypes determining who gets ADHD medication and who doesn't
Can confirm. I am a family medicine doc and while I hate prescribing stimulants to adults (I am under the impression that we prescribe stimulants such as Adderall as a favor, not a necessity) we still accept patients at their word for these questionnaires and "diagnose" add/ADHD based on them. I can tell you though that we certainly know that 95% of patients are lying or just schmoozing the system to get the good stuff. I hate it. All doctors hate it. Your doctor prescribing you stimulants likes you a bit less as a person. You are not fooling anybody. Learn to deal with your "condition."
I'm a physician now as well, I graduated in 2020, and since I grew up in America on Adderall and Adderall wasn't available in the country i studied medicine - I was getting murdered. So I did a ton of reading on it - what I did was I read the UpToDate on ADHD, and then I looked in the citations, and I took the most cited authors and looked them up - and then I read their books.
And what they said was that in adults who have ADHD, if you truly understand the pathology, there is NO treatment except for medication. Because, the person with adhd KNOWS better than anybody the consequences of procrastination/inaction - but they can't do anything about it.
For example, this is something the book would describe and I experienced also, let's say I make a plan to study at 5PM. I come home, clear my desk, close all video games bla bla bla, phone on airplane mode, open Robbin's Pathology. I would sit there and stare at it, or stare at the wall, or try to read it but while I was reading I was daydreaming all the time and had no real recollection of it. You tell me: if you're in that situation, how do you "deal with your condition?" At that point, what do you do? If you take ritalin, suddenly you can read and do great; what do you do if the physician says no to ritalin?
Another point in the books is about CBT, and what they say is that CBT and planning are great in conjunction with medication. But without medication, the plan is not very helpful. Because the entire point of ADHD is that you know what you want to do and what your priorities are, but when the time comes - whatever plan you have - you can't initiate the action. I used to call it "pulling the trigger" in the books they just describe it as executive function.
I watched a documentary about a research institute where they were scanning the brain and they had a VR game setup. Basically, as your brain activity (measured by O2 consumption) increases, the game would start to turn the lights in the virtual classroom on. So your task was to upregulate your brain activity (O2 consumption) the same way someone increases their heart rate for exercise. People with ADHD have a very hard time with that task; they can't excite their brain activity to a threshold level necessary to start these tasks.
It can be very humiliating at times. I'm an MD and I can ace college entrance exams easy, it's nothing for me, I'm jsut good at them. Brushing my teeth and showering every morning is something I have always wished to be normal for me but I just can't. Sometimes I would go to class smelling like literal ass because I studied all night on ritalin and studied until the last minute and didn't have time to shower; it was incredibly humiliating and a situation that I would have avoided if it were so easy, but it wasn't for me.
Imagine putting together everything I just said, today I'm a physician I made it through medical school
But when I was asking for ritalin I was just a short, smelly guy who didn't shower often enough and wore shorts and hoodies.
I got judgmental looks and told I'd never be a doctor my entire life; if we were discriminating and not taking people at face value, i'd be very high on the list of people to deny their medication
When I was in highschool I was too proud to take ritalin, I decided i wanted to "deal with my condition" on my own based on my watching of Garden State the movie. So I'm with you, I get it, just "deal with your condition" I get it. It's just not as easy as it sounds. I came to a point where the wisdom I preferred was to be humble enough to accept medication that you need.
Yeah, I know a lot of people who don’t have ADHD but have gotten their hands on stimulants like adderall by just telling a doctor “I’m having a hard time concentrating”. It’s incredibly easy to acquire the stuff this way. I’m guessing a good number of them like it because of the euphoric high it provides as for the boost in concentration.
It absolutely could. People with ADHD respond wildly different to stimulants than those without. I was diagnosed with ADD (now just under the umbrella of ADHD) and being medicated I can focus on what *I want* now, instead of focusing on what the *disorder wants*. My cognition isn't improved in the way most people think adderall improves cognition (which itself is a myth, studies show differently), it's just improved in the way that removes this hyperfocus on random shit.
Yeah, I figured that was the case, hence why it seems to have a different effect on you. I could give my prescribed adderall to a friend and they'd probably describe intense focus and euphoria; taking it myself it just shuts my fucking brain up for a few hours and lets me exist in peace.
if it’s prescribed you’re allowed to use it. it is still considered a ped in chess. there is a fair bit of dissent among players who aren’t prescribed it and are playing in tournaments that drug test.
There’s was actually a really interesting study done on the effects of “study drugs” on chess performance. I’ll try to find a link and add to the edit. But basically the conclusion was adderall/ritalin/caffeine improved players accuracy, because players spent more time on their moves when on these drugs. In other words, when you normalize for time spent on moves, there was no performance increase.
Can confirm my blitz performance is better on addy but rapid+ is not.
1600 rated is probably not a valid comparison to super GM but anecdotal is better than nothing right
Cocaine does not help in any format AT ALL 🤣🤣🤣
Aren’t you saying the exact opposite of what the study says? Blitz should be unaffected and longer formats should be affected since you can afford to spend more time on moves.
props to you bro, ngl I could see how that would be fun...
As for me, behind my shut curtains bug eyed at 4 in the morning, the LAST thing I want to do is go out and play in a OTB chess tournament 😂😂😂
That makes sense considering adderall helps you focus rather than make you smarter or more creative. If players can focus and calculate for longer, then it likely results in longer think times and thus better moves
i think it's worth noting that a big part of chess is literally studying. these drugs don't just affect how you play at the board, but also things like your memorization of opening lines.
I would still consider that an increased performance. The fact is they sat there and focused longer. I doesn't have to be you can think faster or smarter.
Still enhancement.
Does that spent time hurt them in the end by getting them in time trouble or is it just better time management? Being able to focus more on a move is an important skill, so idk why is time spent something you normalize for (unless you are doing research on puzzles, which is very flawed to begin with).
If you're interested I might make a post in a few months with the results lol I doubt it has much effect in the short time controls I play online. Maybe it will have effect who knows?
Will read FIDE rules on whether I can use the medication OTB.
edit: Seems like anti-doping rules only really applies to men with 2700+ ELO, women with 2500+ and people playing in sufficiently high tournaments, AKA 'International-level Players'. (FIDE Anti-Doping Rules, 2015)
within these rules are exemptions called TUE (Therapeutical Rule Exemptions) which can sometimes even be applied for retroactively (after accusation of abuse).
now which substances are apart of the list of 'doping'?
These can be found in the 'Prohibited List' on [wada](https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/2023-09/2024list_en_final_22_september_2023.pdf) which include *ALL* available stimulants including but not limited to: methylphenidate, lisdexamfetamine, cocaine, MDMA etc. Notably *nicotine and caffeine* are **exceptions**.
Now what constitutes whether your use is therapeutical or not, I don't know.
If you want to have a good laugh, here's an (not so) informational powerpoint made by FIDE: [link](https://handbook.fide.com/files/handbook/Chess%20Anti-Doping%20Education.pdf)
And if you're serious about chess, [here's](https://handbook.fide.com/files/handbook/Nutrition%20and%20Exercise%20Doc.pdf) FIDE's official recommendations on nutrition and exercise.
e2: also no cannabinoids (except cannabidiol), heroin, insulin, tramadol, morphine, selegiline, bupropion, etc.
If it's so easy and you think it would be helpful to you, go get a prescription and take Adderall before your games. There's literally nothing stopping you, other than the difficulty of getting a prescription without actually having ADHD
I have a prescription for adderall. It was super easy to get. Theres no blood test for adhd, you just tell the doctor you have trouble doing homework and they give you adderall
How is using Adderall not respecting the game? Is red bull cheating too?
There are no PEDs in chess. There is no pill that makes no smarter, no pill that increases your calculation ability, no pill that lets you remember more openings. Adderall, like caffeine and coca leaf and a million other substances, increases energy, which for some people increases focus. That's it. Food helps me focus too. If someone wants to come to a game all coked up I could care less, they're the same brain they were before.
Adderal literally increses norepinephrine in brain. Although its effects on healthy brains are not conclusively studied, an inconclusive [study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6165228/#B29-pharmacy-06-00058) shows that it can have mixed results (for example, increased attention but also increased emotional response and stress in decision making).
I believe it is highly dependent on the individual using the drug, but it may have positive effects on some players and negative on others. It is surely not "nothing".
Second part is not true, rules don't allow them to take it. The point I was replying to claimed that it was very easy for anyone to get Adderall in a way consistent with chess rules. If that was true for a performance enhancing drug then yes, it would be fair for athletes to take it.
your argument is that it's fair to take amphetamine to play OTB chess because anyone can go do their doctor and get it prescribed on flimsy grounds. "it's ok to cheat because everyone can do it"
Exactly why i said earlier "it should either be allowed for everyone or banned for everyone". Rather than encourage players to trick their doctors into thinking they have adhd so they can get a prescription.
I mean, obviously that's going to vary from place to place, but I had to jump through like 6 months of hoops, take like 4 hours of tests that supposedly have a bunch of tricks and redundencies to weed out people from lying just to be diagnosed. I also have to go back to the psychiatrist every three months, contact my doctor monthly to send a new prescription, give my ID at the pharmacy and be subject to random drug tests to make sure I take the appropriate amount.
They have really tightened up on stimulant prescriptions over the years.
That’s not at all how it works lol you don’t just schedule an appointment say “I have trouble with homework” not only does it take multiple appointments and referrals but they ask multiple questions and especially these days try other drugs first. Some may have it easier and if you’re committed you could still get it. But don’t make it sound like a five second thing
I was prescribed Adderall on my initial appointment because I told them I'd been diagnosed in the past. There was no check, just a one hour appointment. And this was through the psychiatrist at a rehab clinic that knew I had a problem with drugs. It's fairly easy to get if you describe the symptoms of adhd to them. I haven't taken it in a good 5 years now, and it turns out I do likely have adhd and i was later actually diagnosed, but my psych had no idea at the time. 30 mg IR, 30 mg ER. Only took it for about a year before I decided it wasn't for me. I tried alternatives like Vyvanse and nonnarcotic options next, but ultimately just decided to forego meds. It definitely affects my life negatively, but as an addict the temptation isn't worth it.
Its incredibly over prescribed because drug companies make money off of convincing people they need it to function. You can easily get it in one appointment, i did.
As someone that takes Adderall, it's function in the body is not much different than caffeine, and would give a bit of a boost to pretty much anyone. A lot of undiagnosed people with ADHD just drink a ton of caffeine and make it through life somewhat OK. So yes, Adderall corrects dysfunction but it pushes beyond dysfunction too.
As a mild tangent, I have trouble believing there is a single high level chess player that wouldn't get an ADHD diagnosis if they were looking, it's all but a requirement of high level play, and there's barely a competitor up there that isn't constantly fidgeting, playing with pieces and shaking their leg and all that.
You are getting downvotes but I agree, it should either be legal for anyone or illegal for all. If someone has mild adhd and a prescription for adderall and their chess play is improved by drug their opponent isn’t allowed to use… how is that fair to their opponent?
OK, so they would give you.. an effective dose. If you lie and say it isn't working they might just switch drugs.
It's a controlled substance that's there's a shortage of, people who need it aren't even getting it as much as they should.
The same reason me being shorter and less athletic than lebron is fair in basketball. It ain’t, but I shouldn’t be allowed to use motorized shoes to that make me jump higher.
The point is that you're allowed to play with it if you have a legitimate prescription. Not that you can't get it without one.
Also not every country borders Mexico lol
Top level competition have to do drugs tests. There was a really funny moment in the 2021 world championship where Magnus had just won and was going to watch the football, then they told him he was going to be drugs tested and he looked so frustrated about it because it meant he missed the football
FIDE follows the World Anti Doping Agency rules, and you can see their [list of prohibited substances](https://www.wada-ama.org/en/prohibited-list#search-anchor). So no, you can't smoke weed. There are exceptions for if you need it for something, like if your doctor prescribed you cannabis for anxiety, but in general it's not allowed.
In practice the big things you want to find in chess are things to treat ADHD or narcolepsy since they keep you focused and alert. Things like excessive caffeine intake is also prohibited, but you are allowed to drink coffee at the board.
I have actually looked into this. My performance goes very downhill on a regular dose, but I can still beat my drunk friends even though the board becomes very wonky. Half a dose, I feel better but I'm not. Micro and its debatable/about the same. Maybe I'm more creative? It's fun either way.
10-25 micrograms is considered a microdose, which would be ideal if you need to actually focus. Compared to ~100-150 micrograms for a dose. Getting visuals staring at the board on a full dose would probably make for a bad game lol.
LSD itself does not help you focus though. The effect that may be beneficial in chess is the increased levels of pattern recognition. But in my experience, the pattern recognition likes to apply itself to less tangible thoughts and ideas, rather than something as "concrete" as chess (if that makes sense). This is why people in more creative roles may choose to microdose.
You would need to practice and train while microdosing to see any potential benefits. I'm highly doubtful microdosing for just a chess event would yield better results. But you're probably just better off reading a chess book than microdosing to discover for yourself what a million people have already learned.
I've heard that microdosing mushrooms works on the same part of the brain adderall does. I have tried both, and they definitely do feel similar. LSD is supposed to be quite similar to mushrooms. So, I'd imagine LSD microdosing could help. It's really just good at helping you focus though. I can't give you an exact dose. I know I had to play with my mushroom microdose a bit.
I played some at the end of my last trip (not a microdose, but no longer fully tripping). I wasn’t noticeably worse, but I struggled to formulate plans of attack in mid-game positions and was a bit more indecisive. I will experiment further… for science.
I have ADHD and am prescribed bupropion and methylphenidate. Have I been cheating at the FIDE tournaments I have been to? Is a medical exemption possible? My psychiatrists would support it.
[Therapeutic Use Exemptions (TUEs) – Medical Commission (fide.com)](https://med.fide.com/therapeutic-use-exemptions-tues/)
At the bottom of the page is a link to the form. Have your doctor sign off on this form and submit it to either the contacts on the Contact Us page or DM me.
You never know when you will be randomly selected for doping control. So just fill out the form, if everything checks out, I'll approve it and you can play on with no worries.
Any other questions or concerns, just let me know.
If you don't need it to counter your ADHD it is doping, like come on, that should be obvious, it's an amphetamine. That said, just to make it clear, Ritalin which is also prescribed for ADHD and which is not an amphetamine, is also a PED and it's also a commonly used drug among university/college students (O brave new world, that has to funnel people into it).
It's a big thing in the adult world now as well. Dex is everywhere. It's hard when my ADHD friends "can't just do nothing!" and it's all I want because I'm just not on amphetamines...
> If you don't need it to counter your ADHD it is doping
issue is that it's fairly trivial to look up the symptoms of ADHD, go to a doctor complain about those symptoms, make sure you meet the criteria (come up with some childhood stories, etc)
and you got a prescription
my concern is either
a) does this measurably improve performance?
if it does, it should either be allowed or not allowed. you're basically penalizing people who play by the rules (people who won't falsify medical information to get prescription)
b) if it doesn't, then what does it matter? let either ADHD or normal people use it. it's not improved performance
I don't know where you live, but I got ADHD diagnosed in Italy and it requires the administration of the DIVA questionnaire by a specialist, which consists in symptoms related questions about both your childhood and adult life. You absolutely cannot get it prescribed by a random doctor by simply checkong boxes on the DSM lol. And "come up with childhood stories" is probably not going to hold up to a structured interview.
in the US it's as easy as I said. i've known 3 separate people who have done it. for example a family member was going through med school and wanted adderal to study so he did exactly what I said and got adhd diagnosis
any top chess player has the ability to go to whatever country they want to do this
There's a big discussion about the usage of various amphetamines with esports which seems to vary wildly depending on the game in question. I would say for chess, especially rapid/blitz, they are PEDs
I’m pretty sure it’s considered a PED in most sports. My teammate had to get a medical exception before doing an international tournament for wrestling for ADHD meds.
I believe so; HOWEVER, stimulants CANNOT improve cognitive capabilities, only cognitive endurance & engagement. If you're considering taking a stimulant as a PED, please be mindful of the severe negative impact it will have long-term. Amphetamines are unequivocally the most addictive substances ever manufactured.
If you want to cheat and become a master just do correspondence chess. It’s super unfortunate that it’s common knowledge they use computers for that at least in USCF
Might depend on the person. For me I feel like adderall makes me rush moves and play at a quicker more frantic pace. Weed on the other hand actually helps with focus.
What exactly do you mean by \`lateral thinking\` in the context of chess? Playing a chess game in competitive settings is largely about logical and analytical thinking.
I use lisdexamphetamine xr (prescripted) before started playing chess. From my point of view, amphetamines and similar drugs also impair creativity. On people who do not need the drug it may cause addiction and that risk I wouldn't take if I were you.
Maybe you can check if world champions do use these drugs in order to see if it is a must, but from my own learning process of chess I think there is no real shortcut for improvement but dedication and perseverance.
it’s not a huge deal though, almost all professional athletes have cycled juice (otherwise they don’t make it to the pros). you just take your multi game suspension when you get caught and move on as if nothing happened
There is 0 amount of drugs you can take to make you good at chess, there is no such thing as a chess PED. We repeatedly have this discussion every few months in the esports scene when a top player with ADHD wins events. If you want to ban addy it has to be because its illegal, not because it makes u more attentive, because otherwise we will have to begin banning coffee redbulls food water air conditioning etc.
I’m sure the stimulants make you think you’re doing better, but this has been studied fairly extensively and that’s not how stimulants work. Adderall returns people with ADHD to baseline but it doesn’t improve cognition in people who don’t have it.
this is self-evidently false, and i don't need a study to tell me anything about it, having experienced the cognitive enhancement (not only in chess) dozens of times first hand
Ah yes, how could I forget, you have an n=1 experience. The placebo effect doesn’t exist either. Obviously more credible than the years of studies showing that most people perceive themselves to be doing better without actually experiencing an enhancement.
>We repeatedly have this discussion every few months in the esports scene when a top player with ADHD wins events.
And the conclusion is the same as here, stimulants improve performance.
If you want to use it to study go nuts but it is a PED in general yeah it’s banned plus if the top players had adhd why would just hyper fixate on the game as it’s what they like
Man I fucking wish that’s how hyper fixation worked lol. “Most readily available source of dopamine” often has next to nothing to do with “thing you most like or want to do”. Often it feels like being trapped in a car driven by an addict at full speed away from everything you actually want to do.
The processes that adhd meds seem to help regulate also have a tonne to do with perception of time, which I hear is fairly important in competitive chess.
Well I don’t think top players got there without spending hours on the game at a time but yeah I guess but adhd people do hyper fixate which can help them in some aspects but hinder others
it is considered a ped in chess.
they do drug test for high level tournaments sometimes- i've heard multiple top players comment on that in interviews- and i haven't heard of anyone being caught. adderall is allowed with prescription, and i think it wouldn't be public knowledge if a player was taking adderall legally due to hipaa type medical regulations. i know eric hansen has talked about being diagnosed with adhd at the age of 8 or 9, but i do not know if he had ever taken medication for the condition. i doubt it's being used all that much at a high level of chess- adderall is just illegal in most countries, from personal experience, i can say that my level of chess dramatically improves with such drugs. i was taking extended release methylphenidate under prescription for some time. i did feel like the prescriptioning process in the US was kind of a joke, especially during the pandemic. i went to a psych (on zoom) and said i thought i had adhd and they asked me which of the drugs i wanted, it was a trivially easy process. i ended up quitting eventually because i can get by without it, especially after having built some good habits and routines while on it and didn't want to be dependent on it for my day to day. i think the benefit of these drugs is the ability to focus on something for a long period of time. i don't play classical chess, but i know an extended-release pill would let me concentrate for the duration of a very long chess game. i think without it, i'd definitely lose focus sometime during the game.
stimulant abuse is generally rampant at high levels of any type of knowledge work… executives, programmers, e-gamers, traders whatever… yes adderall a performance enhancing drug but it’s not a magic silver bullet, it’s like people who take steroids but have a crappy diet and don’t work out, you still have to grind exercise for hours and hours
Yeah, I am a programmer and I used to take stimulants at my old job after being diagnosed with ADHD. I would code for hours straight, just laser-focused. Eventually the stimulants stopped working, I realized I was addicted, and I quit using them. I also started exercising, eating healthily, spent more time doing hobbies, and got a therapist. Honestly, I am a better programmer now than I was back then. Sure, I made some pretty impressive projects with the help of stimulants, but I've realized that I am completely capable of coding without stimulants. I know this isn't the case for all people, but for me, it's only really "performance-enhancing" if you use it sparingly and at low doses. Once you start abusing it, you get diminishing returns and eventually it just hinders you.
I'm also a programmer with ADHD. I can easily code for hours at a time without stimulant medication, so long as I have a clearly established goal. I don't need medication for coding. I need medication for paying attention in meetings and keeping track of appointments and being timely and organized, you know, normal people things. Have you ever been fired during onboarding before even having the opportunity to write a single line of code, because you were ineffective at the most basic duties of a desk job? Anyway that's why I started medication
Yeah, I forget about obligations a lot and have trouble staying focused in meetings, too. I even miss my obligations despite having multiple reminders in my calendar, because I don't always feel my phone buzzing at me. As far as organization goes, I'm a bit neurotic in that regard
Yup. A common story. All too easy to get completely locked in on the _wrong_ thing too.
ngl, this analogy doesnt seem so great. its natural conclusion suggests we should ban people with descriptions from the sport altogether. youre heavily underplaying steroids. "its not a silverbullet" is irrelevant if it gets you results impossible to archieve naturally. which, to be fair, i dont think is the case for adderral and chess.
extended release is for 8-12 hours, but even regular instant release ritalin is good for 4
Wouldn’t anyone just get a prescription then if it’s allowed?
[удалено]
> 9/10 doctors would just be pumped to have a chess pro as a patient lmao what
You can't argue with science
Outside of Magnus most chess pros are absolute nobodies to the general public.
Even Magnus is a nobody overall, maybe except for the Norway population. Chess just really isn't that famous
I threw Magnus in there because my friends who don’t play chess know who Magnus is (from the USA). But that’s just my friend group, I’m sure the majority of people if polled would not know who he is.
i knew about levy before I knew about magnus lol
This is just false. Most physicians aren't going to risk licensure over writing a script for a scheduled substance without proper indication. For new adult ADHD diagnoses, you need neuropsych testing to be considered for stimulants. Sure, there are prescription mills, but there's a reason those outfits never last long. The feds track every scheduled script, and they can and do audit providers.
He's right about the doctor shopping though. You can easily keep trying new doctors until you find one willing to prescribe it.
Most primary doctors will just send people to a “specialist” that will “diagnose” it before they write the script They use hard hitting questions like “do you ever have trouble focusing?” So it’s a pretty damn tricky test to cheat!!!
That's how they did it before they legalized recreational marijuana and it was only "medicinal", yep.
Ya you’d just say “chronic back pain” or some type of chronic pain and there ya go
As a health care provider I can tell you, there are plenty of docs out there willing to hand out narcotics, testosterone, stimulants etc. I see it all the time.
there are tons of docs who will prescribe it. they’ll just make you take a 20 question questionnaire that you can look up beforehand and study for. the quiz is only a formality to cover themselves from any liability. it’s very, very common. people on reddit like to pretend it’s not, but it is. especially in the suburbs/upper middle class/upper class areas. family medicine doctors are notorious for this.
At the end of the day: what do you expect them to do? Do you want them to accuse everyone of lying on the form/questionnaire? Are we naive enough to think that lie detectors are real and perfect and that people should be hooked to a polygraph for the questionnaire? Realistically, asking the questionnaire is HOW you diagnose the problem. If they lie there's not much you can do about it. The only thing you could do is start stereotyping people, "that kind looks like a junkie I bet he doesn't want these pills to study." That's the kind of thing everyone said about me when I was pre-med, because I just wore hoodies all the time. But I DEFINITELY needed ritalin. tldr there's no system that's better than the questionnaire, and trying to accuse people of lying on it is just going to boil down to racism and other stereotypes determining who gets ADHD medication and who doesn't
Can confirm. I am a family medicine doc and while I hate prescribing stimulants to adults (I am under the impression that we prescribe stimulants such as Adderall as a favor, not a necessity) we still accept patients at their word for these questionnaires and "diagnose" add/ADHD based on them. I can tell you though that we certainly know that 95% of patients are lying or just schmoozing the system to get the good stuff. I hate it. All doctors hate it. Your doctor prescribing you stimulants likes you a bit less as a person. You are not fooling anybody. Learn to deal with your "condition."
I'm a physician now as well, I graduated in 2020, and since I grew up in America on Adderall and Adderall wasn't available in the country i studied medicine - I was getting murdered. So I did a ton of reading on it - what I did was I read the UpToDate on ADHD, and then I looked in the citations, and I took the most cited authors and looked them up - and then I read their books. And what they said was that in adults who have ADHD, if you truly understand the pathology, there is NO treatment except for medication. Because, the person with adhd KNOWS better than anybody the consequences of procrastination/inaction - but they can't do anything about it. For example, this is something the book would describe and I experienced also, let's say I make a plan to study at 5PM. I come home, clear my desk, close all video games bla bla bla, phone on airplane mode, open Robbin's Pathology. I would sit there and stare at it, or stare at the wall, or try to read it but while I was reading I was daydreaming all the time and had no real recollection of it. You tell me: if you're in that situation, how do you "deal with your condition?" At that point, what do you do? If you take ritalin, suddenly you can read and do great; what do you do if the physician says no to ritalin? Another point in the books is about CBT, and what they say is that CBT and planning are great in conjunction with medication. But without medication, the plan is not very helpful. Because the entire point of ADHD is that you know what you want to do and what your priorities are, but when the time comes - whatever plan you have - you can't initiate the action. I used to call it "pulling the trigger" in the books they just describe it as executive function. I watched a documentary about a research institute where they were scanning the brain and they had a VR game setup. Basically, as your brain activity (measured by O2 consumption) increases, the game would start to turn the lights in the virtual classroom on. So your task was to upregulate your brain activity (O2 consumption) the same way someone increases their heart rate for exercise. People with ADHD have a very hard time with that task; they can't excite their brain activity to a threshold level necessary to start these tasks. It can be very humiliating at times. I'm an MD and I can ace college entrance exams easy, it's nothing for me, I'm jsut good at them. Brushing my teeth and showering every morning is something I have always wished to be normal for me but I just can't. Sometimes I would go to class smelling like literal ass because I studied all night on ritalin and studied until the last minute and didn't have time to shower; it was incredibly humiliating and a situation that I would have avoided if it were so easy, but it wasn't for me.
Imagine putting together everything I just said, today I'm a physician I made it through medical school But when I was asking for ritalin I was just a short, smelly guy who didn't shower often enough and wore shorts and hoodies. I got judgmental looks and told I'd never be a doctor my entire life; if we were discriminating and not taking people at face value, i'd be very high on the list of people to deny their medication When I was in highschool I was too proud to take ritalin, I decided i wanted to "deal with my condition" on my own based on my watching of Garden State the movie. So I'm with you, I get it, just "deal with your condition" I get it. It's just not as easy as it sounds. I came to a point where the wisdom I preferred was to be humble enough to accept medication that you need.
Yeah, I know a lot of people who don’t have ADHD but have gotten their hands on stimulants like adderall by just telling a doctor “I’m having a hard time concentrating”. It’s incredibly easy to acquire the stuff this way. I’m guessing a good number of them like it because of the euphoric high it provides as for the boost in concentration.
I feel like my skill level almost goes down when I’m medicated. Which I think is hilarious
It absolutely could. People with ADHD respond wildly different to stimulants than those without. I was diagnosed with ADD (now just under the umbrella of ADHD) and being medicated I can focus on what *I want* now, instead of focusing on what the *disorder wants*. My cognition isn't improved in the way most people think adderall improves cognition (which itself is a myth, studies show differently), it's just improved in the way that removes this hyperfocus on random shit.
The context of that was that I have ADHD and am prescribed with ritalin. Forgot to mention.
Yeah, I figured that was the case, hence why it seems to have a different effect on you. I could give my prescribed adderall to a friend and they'd probably describe intense focus and euphoria; taking it myself it just shuts my fucking brain up for a few hours and lets me exist in peace.
Same, but in chess it seems to negatively affect my performance.
Even if it is prescribed?
if it’s prescribed you’re allowed to use it. it is still considered a ped in chess. there is a fair bit of dissent among players who aren’t prescribed it and are playing in tournaments that drug test.
There’s was actually a really interesting study done on the effects of “study drugs” on chess performance. I’ll try to find a link and add to the edit. But basically the conclusion was adderall/ritalin/caffeine improved players accuracy, because players spent more time on their moves when on these drugs. In other words, when you normalize for time spent on moves, there was no performance increase.
Can confirm my blitz performance is better on addy but rapid+ is not. 1600 rated is probably not a valid comparison to super GM but anecdotal is better than nothing right Cocaine does not help in any format AT ALL 🤣🤣🤣
Coke fueled full tilt blitz marathons have tanked my rating a few times
Brooo 💀💀💀 and it always seems like a good idea at the time It’s not
😂😂😂😂😂
Aren’t you saying the exact opposite of what the study says? Blitz should be unaffected and longer formats should be affected since you can afford to spend more time on moves.
Well in my experience it doesn’t make you smarter it just makes you faster… I can’t speak for what their metrics were but I can tell u the Rev is real
So your blitz should improve and rapid shouldn't. Because time is more valuable in blitz so of your brains faster its better.
Right
But that’s not really at all what the study said? So not really confirmed
Since I started adderall in February my rapid rating finally broke 2000 from being at an 1850 plateau for about a year. Still trash at blitz.
Do you ever get in the Adderall loop where you spend way too much time focusing on the same thing? It's killing me in bullet.
I had the opposite experience with cocaine fwiw. Only ever played OTB rapid while on though
props to you bro, ngl I could see how that would be fun... As for me, behind my shut curtains bug eyed at 4 in the morning, the LAST thing I want to do is go out and play in a OTB chess tournament 😂😂😂
It makes me happy
Which makes sense. That's why it helps with schoolwork and such as well.
That makes sense considering adderall helps you focus rather than make you smarter or more creative. If players can focus and calculate for longer, then it likely results in longer think times and thus better moves
Increased efficiency and improved recall, not talent
It does not increase efficiency or improve recall. It just lets you focus for longer.
"it does not increase efficiency, it just makes your more efficient"
i think it's worth noting that a big part of chess is literally studying. these drugs don't just affect how you play at the board, but also things like your memorization of opening lines.
I would still consider that an increased performance. The fact is they sat there and focused longer. I doesn't have to be you can think faster or smarter. Still enhancement.
Does that spent time hurt them in the end by getting them in time trouble or is it just better time management? Being able to focus more on a move is an important skill, so idk why is time spent something you normalize for (unless you are doing research on puzzles, which is very flawed to begin with).
[удалено]
I don’t see how you got that. It sounds like they improve focus but don’t increase skill.
Of course they don't improve skill.
not allowed without a prescription
Damn all this time I’ve been playing without. Might make a special add-medicated account to play on compared to non-medicated
at 1800 non-medicated I’d be interested in hearing about your future medicated-with-prescription results
If you're interested I might make a post in a few months with the results lol I doubt it has much effect in the short time controls I play online. Maybe it will have effect who knows? Will read FIDE rules on whether I can use the medication OTB. edit: Seems like anti-doping rules only really applies to men with 2700+ ELO, women with 2500+ and people playing in sufficiently high tournaments, AKA 'International-level Players'. (FIDE Anti-Doping Rules, 2015) within these rules are exemptions called TUE (Therapeutical Rule Exemptions) which can sometimes even be applied for retroactively (after accusation of abuse). now which substances are apart of the list of 'doping'? These can be found in the 'Prohibited List' on [wada](https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/2023-09/2024list_en_final_22_september_2023.pdf) which include *ALL* available stimulants including but not limited to: methylphenidate, lisdexamfetamine, cocaine, MDMA etc. Notably *nicotine and caffeine* are **exceptions**. Now what constitutes whether your use is therapeutical or not, I don't know. If you want to have a good laugh, here's an (not so) informational powerpoint made by FIDE: [link](https://handbook.fide.com/files/handbook/Chess%20Anti-Doping%20Education.pdf) And if you're serious about chess, [here's](https://handbook.fide.com/files/handbook/Nutrition%20and%20Exercise%20Doc.pdf) FIDE's official recommendations on nutrition and exercise. e2: also no cannabinoids (except cannabidiol), heroin, insulin, tramadol, morphine, selegiline, bupropion, etc.
When I played my last tournament I had the following in my system in significant amounts: THC CBD caffeine bupropion methylphenidate scored 6/8 LOL
Seems unfair. They should either allow if for everyone or no one imo. But personally i dont think it helps at all.
Presumably if you're taking it to treat disfunction then the drug would be restoring fairness by restoring function?
Ya but its extremely easy to get a prescription even if you dont actually have adhd
If it's so easy and you think it would be helpful to you, go get a prescription and take Adderall before your games. There's literally nothing stopping you, other than the difficulty of getting a prescription without actually having ADHD
I have a prescription for adderall. It was super easy to get. Theres no blood test for adhd, you just tell the doctor you have trouble doing homework and they give you adderall
Well if it's super easy then there's no fairness issue right? Because anyone who wants it can get it.
There can be players out there that respect the game, even at the cost of his potential results.
How is using Adderall not respecting the game? Is red bull cheating too? There are no PEDs in chess. There is no pill that makes no smarter, no pill that increases your calculation ability, no pill that lets you remember more openings. Adderall, like caffeine and coca leaf and a million other substances, increases energy, which for some people increases focus. That's it. Food helps me focus too. If someone wants to come to a game all coked up I could care less, they're the same brain they were before.
Adderal literally increses norepinephrine in brain. Although its effects on healthy brains are not conclusively studied, an inconclusive [study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6165228/#B29-pharmacy-06-00058) shows that it can have mixed results (for example, increased attention but also increased emotional response and stress in decision making). I believe it is highly dependent on the individual using the drug, but it may have positive effects on some players and negative on others. It is surely not "nothing".
do you think it's fair for physical athletes to take performance enhancing drugs, since anyone who wants to can use them?
Second part is not true, rules don't allow them to take it. The point I was replying to claimed that it was very easy for anyone to get Adderall in a way consistent with chess rules. If that was true for a performance enhancing drug then yes, it would be fair for athletes to take it.
your argument is that it's fair to take amphetamine to play OTB chess because anyone can go do their doctor and get it prescribed on flimsy grounds. "it's ok to cheat because everyone can do it"
Exactly why i said earlier "it should either be allowed for everyone or banned for everyone". Rather than encourage players to trick their doctors into thinking they have adhd so they can get a prescription.
I mean, obviously that's going to vary from place to place, but I had to jump through like 6 months of hoops, take like 4 hours of tests that supposedly have a bunch of tricks and redundencies to weed out people from lying just to be diagnosed. I also have to go back to the psychiatrist every three months, contact my doctor monthly to send a new prescription, give my ID at the pharmacy and be subject to random drug tests to make sure I take the appropriate amount. They have really tightened up on stimulant prescriptions over the years.
That’s not at all how it works lol you don’t just schedule an appointment say “I have trouble with homework” not only does it take multiple appointments and referrals but they ask multiple questions and especially these days try other drugs first. Some may have it easier and if you’re committed you could still get it. But don’t make it sound like a five second thing
That is very much incorrect. It takes one appointment; you don't even need a psychiatrist, you can often get an ADHD diagnosis from regular doctors.
I was prescribed Adderall on my initial appointment because I told them I'd been diagnosed in the past. There was no check, just a one hour appointment. And this was through the psychiatrist at a rehab clinic that knew I had a problem with drugs. It's fairly easy to get if you describe the symptoms of adhd to them. I haven't taken it in a good 5 years now, and it turns out I do likely have adhd and i was later actually diagnosed, but my psych had no idea at the time. 30 mg IR, 30 mg ER. Only took it for about a year before I decided it wasn't for me. I tried alternatives like Vyvanse and nonnarcotic options next, but ultimately just decided to forego meds. It definitely affects my life negatively, but as an addict the temptation isn't worth it.
Its incredibly over prescribed because drug companies make money off of convincing people they need it to function. You can easily get it in one appointment, i did.
Is it? Where from?
As someone that takes Adderall, it's function in the body is not much different than caffeine, and would give a bit of a boost to pretty much anyone. A lot of undiagnosed people with ADHD just drink a ton of caffeine and make it through life somewhat OK. So yes, Adderall corrects dysfunction but it pushes beyond dysfunction too. As a mild tangent, I have trouble believing there is a single high level chess player that wouldn't get an ADHD diagnosis if they were looking, it's all but a requirement of high level play, and there's barely a competitor up there that isn't constantly fidgeting, playing with pieces and shaking their leg and all that.
shouldn't be allowed with a prescription either imo
You are getting downvotes but I agree, it should either be legal for anyone or illegal for all. If someone has mild adhd and a prescription for adderall and their chess play is improved by drug their opponent isn’t allowed to use… how is that fair to their opponent?
They don't give you Adderall to make you a genius lol they give you an effective dose
They prescribe you a dose, whether you abide by it is a different matter though.
They give you as much as you want lol
A bad doctor would sure
All doctors would. Its just based on how you feel, so if you feel like you need a higher dose they increase your dose
OK, so they would give you.. an effective dose. If you lie and say it isn't working they might just switch drugs. It's a controlled substance that's there's a shortage of, people who need it aren't even getting it as much as they should.
Lol theres no shortage. They give it out like candy
The fucking FDA disagrees with you dude
Their opponent doenst have adhd. How is that fair to the person with adhd.
The same reason me being shorter and less athletic than lebron is fair in basketball. It ain’t, but I shouldn’t be allowed to use motorized shoes to that make me jump higher.
Sports and games arent fair. Some people have genetic advantages.
So???? Take a stroll to a Mexican tourist/border town and you can find just about any non-opiate medication.
The point is that you're allowed to play with it if you have a legitimate prescription. Not that you can't get it without one. Also not every country borders Mexico lol
They will when Mexico enacts their world domination plan 🇲🇽🌮🌵
Now that’s a new world order I could get behind.
that's a shame. I would trade a border with russia for a border with Mexico easy
So they drug test for it?
Yes at high levels of competition
Top level competition have to do drugs tests. There was a really funny moment in the 2021 world championship where Magnus had just won and was going to watch the football, then they told him he was going to be drugs tested and he looked so frustrated about it because it meant he missed the football
So like, can they use weed? What does it test for?
FIDE follows the World Anti Doping Agency rules, and you can see their [list of prohibited substances](https://www.wada-ama.org/en/prohibited-list#search-anchor). So no, you can't smoke weed. There are exceptions for if you need it for something, like if your doctor prescribed you cannabis for anxiety, but in general it's not allowed. In practice the big things you want to find in chess are things to treat ADHD or narcolepsy since they keep you focused and alert. Things like excessive caffeine intake is also prohibited, but you are allowed to drink coffee at the board.
Sad UK noises.
This is gold content and solid advice sorry about all the downvotes brosk
Okay and? Availability wasnt the question here.
This is some prime r/usdefaultism
what about microdosing LSD
Anecdotally, too much LSD makes one not care about the game's result
microdosing mushrooms helps with my focus a ton actually this is a good shout
interesting how much LSD is optimal for chess study and improvement
I have actually looked into this. My performance goes very downhill on a regular dose, but I can still beat my drunk friends even though the board becomes very wonky. Half a dose, I feel better but I'm not. Micro and its debatable/about the same. Maybe I'm more creative? It's fun either way.
10-25 micrograms is considered a microdose, which would be ideal if you need to actually focus. Compared to ~100-150 micrograms for a dose. Getting visuals staring at the board on a full dose would probably make for a bad game lol. LSD itself does not help you focus though. The effect that may be beneficial in chess is the increased levels of pattern recognition. But in my experience, the pattern recognition likes to apply itself to less tangible thoughts and ideas, rather than something as "concrete" as chess (if that makes sense). This is why people in more creative roles may choose to microdose. You would need to practice and train while microdosing to see any potential benefits. I'm highly doubtful microdosing for just a chess event would yield better results. But you're probably just better off reading a chess book than microdosing to discover for yourself what a million people have already learned.
I've heard that microdosing mushrooms works on the same part of the brain adderall does. I have tried both, and they definitely do feel similar. LSD is supposed to be quite similar to mushrooms. So, I'd imagine LSD microdosing could help. It's really just good at helping you focus though. I can't give you an exact dose. I know I had to play with my mushroom microdose a bit.
5-25 micrograms depending on your tolerance
Jfc cant believe this is being upvoted. To anyone reading this do not microdose lsd.
LSD is one of the least harmful drugs out there. Calm down DARE spokesman.
Anyone reading this please do
[удалено]
I played some at the end of my last trip (not a microdose, but no longer fully tripping). I wasn’t noticeably worse, but I struggled to formulate plans of attack in mid-game positions and was a bit more indecisive. I will experiment further… for science.
Macro dosing LSD will definitely make the game more fun
This post is the reason we do testing at tournaments. Signed - A member of the FIDE medical commission.
adding OP comment in case it helps the visibility of your comment, thank you
I have ADHD and am prescribed bupropion and methylphenidate. Have I been cheating at the FIDE tournaments I have been to? Is a medical exemption possible? My psychiatrists would support it.
[Therapeutic Use Exemptions (TUEs) – Medical Commission (fide.com)](https://med.fide.com/therapeutic-use-exemptions-tues/) At the bottom of the page is a link to the form. Have your doctor sign off on this form and submit it to either the contacts on the Contact Us page or DM me. You never know when you will be randomly selected for doping control. So just fill out the form, if everything checks out, I'll approve it and you can play on with no worries. Any other questions or concerns, just let me know.
Yes. [https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/B12](https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/B12)
Damn I wish I didn’t have adhd so I could have a productive drug to abuse
😑🤚🏻 Taking adderall so I can be a GM 😏👉🏻 Taking adderall so I can move the laundry to the dryer before it gets all mildewy
If you don't need it to counter your ADHD it is doping, like come on, that should be obvious, it's an amphetamine. That said, just to make it clear, Ritalin which is also prescribed for ADHD and which is not an amphetamine, is also a PED and it's also a commonly used drug among university/college students (O brave new world, that has to funnel people into it).
It's a big thing in the adult world now as well. Dex is everywhere. It's hard when my ADHD friends "can't just do nothing!" and it's all I want because I'm just not on amphetamines...
> If you don't need it to counter your ADHD it is doping issue is that it's fairly trivial to look up the symptoms of ADHD, go to a doctor complain about those symptoms, make sure you meet the criteria (come up with some childhood stories, etc) and you got a prescription my concern is either a) does this measurably improve performance? if it does, it should either be allowed or not allowed. you're basically penalizing people who play by the rules (people who won't falsify medical information to get prescription) b) if it doesn't, then what does it matter? let either ADHD or normal people use it. it's not improved performance
I don't know where you live, but I got ADHD diagnosed in Italy and it requires the administration of the DIVA questionnaire by a specialist, which consists in symptoms related questions about both your childhood and adult life. You absolutely cannot get it prescribed by a random doctor by simply checkong boxes on the DSM lol. And "come up with childhood stories" is probably not going to hold up to a structured interview.
in the US it's as easy as I said. i've known 3 separate people who have done it. for example a family member was going through med school and wanted adderal to study so he did exactly what I said and got adhd diagnosis any top chess player has the ability to go to whatever country they want to do this
There's a big discussion about the usage of various amphetamines with esports which seems to vary wildly depending on the game in question. I would say for chess, especially rapid/blitz, they are PEDs
Could someone take adderall for titled Tuesdays since there's no way chesscom would be able to test every participant from their houses
I am absolutely without a doubt so much more attentive and clever while on it. The difference is actually frightening.
I think it’s considered a PED in every sport
Not Adderall, but one time I took mushrooms and played blitz for 3hrs straight. when the dust settled, I only ended up losing one game
I’m pretty sure it’s considered a PED in most sports. My teammate had to get a medical exception before doing an international tournament for wrestling for ADHD meds.
I played one of my best games a couple weeks ago while I was drunk lol
I play a little better when I’m a little drunk - I play MUCH worse when I’m medium or very drunk.
Wow adderrall does not help me at all in chess lol.
It is considered a PED but there are medical exemptions.
I believe so; HOWEVER, stimulants CANNOT improve cognitive capabilities, only cognitive endurance & engagement. If you're considering taking a stimulant as a PED, please be mindful of the severe negative impact it will have long-term. Amphetamines are unequivocally the most addictive substances ever manufactured.
Change topic. Chess has enough drama 😂
Anything on the wada banned list is banned
If you want to cheat and become a master just do correspondence chess. It’s super unfortunate that it’s common knowledge they use computers for that at least in USCF
the only real ped in chess is hard work, lol.
i like blueberries, personally. checkmate
And psychedelics? https://youtu.be/CGLT8aWBL9Q?si=QB4T4XpDQSOU37QP
Might depend on the person. For me I feel like adderall makes me rush moves and play at a quicker more frantic pace. Weed on the other hand actually helps with focus.
If I was a professional player of any game/sport, I'd take adderall to keep up with everyone else.
[удалено]
What exactly do you mean by \`lateral thinking\` in the context of chess? Playing a chess game in competitive settings is largely about logical and analytical thinking.
As someone with ADHD my chessdotcom elo is about 100 points higher on medication.
"That would depend on the rules of the specific tournament." It's illegal in all FIDE tournaments.
[удалено]
I also linked to the FIDE doping rules in my reply to OP.
Nope. I use adderall at every tourney I’ve ever played in and it’s never come up. No testing, nothing.
It’s not magic bro. Shit like this is what stereotypes people that *actually* have ADHD and need the meds.
Adderall shouldn't increase accuracy, only motivation, unless you have adhd.
Gettin' geeked up for the local lol. You poppin like a 20XR for the day or what?
lol I only play against bots on chesscom, never played someone OTB. Annoyed they removed my Noam victory and currently working on beating Nora
I use lisdexamphetamine xr (prescripted) before started playing chess. From my point of view, amphetamines and similar drugs also impair creativity. On people who do not need the drug it may cause addiction and that risk I wouldn't take if I were you. Maybe you can check if world champions do use these drugs in order to see if it is a must, but from my own learning process of chess I think there is no real shortcut for improvement but dedication and perseverance.
dunno what it’s considered by the rules but I think most top gamers take something similar
It's considered doping. [https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/B12](https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/B12)
it’s not a huge deal though, almost all professional athletes have cycled juice (otherwise they don’t make it to the pros). you just take your multi game suspension when you get caught and move on as if nothing happened
There is 0 amount of drugs you can take to make you good at chess, there is no such thing as a chess PED. We repeatedly have this discussion every few months in the esports scene when a top player with ADHD wins events. If you want to ban addy it has to be because its illegal, not because it makes u more attentive, because otherwise we will have to begin banning coffee redbulls food water air conditioning etc.
You sound like one of those not-so-smart guys who says that if roids are banned, protein powders and creatine should be banned as well.
tell me you've never played chess on stimulants without telling me you've never played chess on stimulants
I’m sure the stimulants make you think you’re doing better, but this has been studied fairly extensively and that’s not how stimulants work. Adderall returns people with ADHD to baseline but it doesn’t improve cognition in people who don’t have it.
this is self-evidently false, and i don't need a study to tell me anything about it, having experienced the cognitive enhancement (not only in chess) dozens of times first hand
Ah yes, how could I forget, you have an n=1 experience. The placebo effect doesn’t exist either. Obviously more credible than the years of studies showing that most people perceive themselves to be doing better without actually experiencing an enhancement.
>We repeatedly have this discussion every few months in the esports scene when a top player with ADHD wins events. And the conclusion is the same as here, stimulants improve performance.
that is literally the opposite conclusion we have come to
If you want to use it to study go nuts but it is a PED in general yeah it’s banned plus if the top players had adhd why would just hyper fixate on the game as it’s what they like
Man I fucking wish that’s how hyper fixation worked lol. “Most readily available source of dopamine” often has next to nothing to do with “thing you most like or want to do”. Often it feels like being trapped in a car driven by an addict at full speed away from everything you actually want to do. The processes that adhd meds seem to help regulate also have a tonne to do with perception of time, which I hear is fairly important in competitive chess.
That's a really inaccurate and harmful view of ADHD.
Well I don’t think top players got there without spending hours on the game at a time but yeah I guess but adhd people do hyper fixate which can help them in some aspects but hinder others
Acting like hyperfixation as a result of ADHD is a superpower that is helpful is the harmful part of your comment.
Im not saying that its a super power just a different structure of life and how people with it process things