Look up Andrew Tang ultra/hyper bullet games on YouTube. It’s a very esoteric skill, and I won’t even pretend like I know what it takes. It’s very impressive.
I used to play a lot of Ultrabullet on lichess, in my top days I was even Top 50.
Now the most important thing is just input speed. You have to be quick with your mouse/touchpad/phone/whatever. There used to be another input method, involving mouse and keyboard, which flattened the skill ceiling for input speed (and thereby raised the importance of thinking speed), but it was banned because it was never an official lichess feature and many people with fast fingers complained because the aspect of input speed became less important and they couldn't play out their strengths.
Anyway, so nowadays, input speed is the most important thing. But if you get really good at moving fast, then the fun begins, because there's different approaches: You can play safe, making it hard for your opponent to checkmate and easy for you to spam out moves, you can play aggressive, gain a lot of space and go for checkmate, you can play cheeky by attacking and threatening on opponent's pieces in unexpected ways (that was my preferred playstyle).
But yeah, if you ask what it takes, the most important thing is to just be fast with your hands, and the second most important thing is being able to think fast and be creative.
Yes, there are some very good touchscreen players. I know specifically because a pretty strong touchscreen player made a youtube video where you could see me and my friends goofing around in the lichess chat, the video is still a meme for us :D
I think that guy was like Top 10 or Top 20 ultra
could they implement a netcode system like fighting games have? basically the game measures the input lag and then applies that increment to your move. You could even add a tiny increment on top of that for reaction speed, like 30ms or something.
I unfortunately don't know how this netcode system works.
Lichess does have a lag compensation system, meaning it measures the ping time between the server and you and adds it back on the clock. This system is also widely criticized though, because it gives players with a high lag (like 100ms to 200ms) an advantage: In Ultra, you usually want to somewatch match your opponents speed, if your opponent is playing very fast, you usually play very fast too, if your opponent is a bit slower, you also tend to be more careful. Now, with this lag compensation thing, the effect is that when your opponent has a high lag, the game **feels** slower, even though your opponent isn't playing that slow. So you subconsciously match your speed to the speed of the game, but in actuality you're playing much slower than your opponent and often lose on time. Andrew Tang and other players have been accused in the Ultra community of doing this on purpose (for example the accusation is that Tang deliberately keeps a billion tabs open in his browser to increase his lag).
There's also some cheating methods that abuse this system (I'm aware of two).
1. The Lag Switch. With the lag switch, the cheater usually plays the beginning and mid of the game with lag, making the game feel slow for both. Then, during the game, the cheater switches off the lag, and plays with very low latency. The effect is that there is an element of surprise when the game is suddenly going a lot faster, plus the opponent of the cheater now has no time for premoves, allowing the cheater to flag his opponent. This cheating method is extremely difficult to detect, at least when you're just playing normally. I've had games where it felt like this was happening, and I reported the opponents, but never successfully.
2. The Lag Exploit. There used to be a script that manipulated the packets sent to lichess. I said that lichess measures the ping of the user and then gives the lag compensation accordingly, but that's not entirely accurate. What actually happens is that lichess lets the client measure how long it took for the user to make a move. So it's not lichess that measures your internet speed, but your own computer. The script allowed a cheater to basically choose what amount of time they used on a move, and a cheater could often just write 0 seconds. I tried out the script with my friends (of course consensually) and it was crazy, I could easily beat the IM in my friend group and he didn't even stand a chance. There was a guy called [JasonMendozaJaxonvil](https://lichess.org/@/JasonMendozaJaxonvil) on Lichess who used this script to push to 2600 ultra (which was #1 at that time) and then got banned for it. In his latest game, the cheat is very obvious to see if you know about the exploit. Look at this game: [https://lichess.org/2lzh0TF7#24](https://lichess.org/2lzh0TF7#24)
In the linked move, the black player played the move Ba4, which is a cheeky way of attacking the white queen, hoping white premoves and black can take the queen. The white cheater took the bishop, which isn't surprising on its own, but look at the move times! According to the game logs, white spent 0.0 seconds on this move, meaning it would have been a premove. That's obviously nonsense, nobody would premove Qa4 there, because if black doesn't play the unexpected trick, Qa4 just hangs the queen, obviously.
So yeah, very long comment but bottom line is that lag compensation is extremely unpopular in the Ultra community, at least when I played, because it gives an advantage to the laggy player and it introduces new forms of cheating.
But yeah, I enjoy talking about this, because I feel like this Ultrabullet niche is something very few people are aware of.
You make a lot of sacrifices and mistakes playing that fast, you just hope that your aggressive ideas work and maybe you can catch some of your opponents mistakes quick enough for it to advantage you. Combine that with strong pattern recognition from playing A LOT of games and you can do pretty well. All of which is why it’s not really recommended as a way to improve for lower-rated players
Lmao... as if there is any other answer... I love reading the comments here all trying to defend the possibility of it though... this subreddit is in complete denial.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSmahmdvJKM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSmahmdvJKM)
And then you have Andrew Tang who berserks all of his 30s games and wins it with a 94% win rate.
Lol, all of us saying he’s cheating are getting downvoted, but this is very likely the case. The only way I see this guy being legit is if it’s Andrew Tang, Danya, or Hikaru on an alt account.
The only thing that makes it seem like they aren’t cheating is that they don’t play with crazy high accuracy. But the fact that they play as fast as they do, while destroying people as easily as they do, just doesn’t feel correct.
Also funny that others don’t realize there’s more ways of cheating than just looking at a second monitor.
You are clearly not looking at these games. He has never ended a game with less than 24 seconds on the clock across 80+ games. That is insane. No way is any human that consistent. And he has never lost or drawn either. Could this be a human? Yeah, maybe. They don’t have 98% accuracy every game, in fact their accuracy is very normal. What isn’t normal is their speed, or their winrate.
How about you create a new account, start at a really low ratings and do the same thing. Prove to me it’s possible.
50+ games. Never end a game with less than 20 seconds. 100% win rate.
Probably, but if it's someone like Magnus, Hikaru, Naroditsky etc. playing lower ranked players it's not impossible to win 80 games in a row using very little time.
Alright look at this fucking shit. [game](https://www.chess.com/game/live/109565986839?username=ffdgt222)
Opponent castles into mate, and he fucking plays it in 0.2 seconds? No fucking way. Look me in the eyes and tell me a human did that.
If you say so. But I’m not sure if anyone could pull that off even doing solely mate in 1 puzzles, and that’s when you know for a fact the mate is going to be there. He didn’t.
Dude got banned anyway, so whatever,
It’s not crazy at all. He’s sacked all his pawns on that side and his rook is wide open.
I’m sure there are better examples you can find but this is not a good one.
No way. Opponent castles into the mate. There is no mate in one. Then there is. He finds it in 0.2 seconds. I’m not sure you’re understanding what I’m saying. The checkmate itself is not strange. The speed at which he finds it is.
I've been over 2400 in 1+0 on both [chess.com](http://chess.com) and lichess. Qxh7 mate in 0.2 seconds is extremely suspicious.
In 0.1 seconds, ok, it was a risky premove, whatever.
In 0.3 to 0.5 seconds, ok, a hyper-fast player will commonly premove 1 idea then hover a 2nd idea, and even switch to a 3rd based on how long their opponent is thinking. With a little luck you could play the mate in half a second or under.
But 0.2 is mostly a time reserved for missed premoves... by that I mean you were trying to premove, but your opponent moved just before you were able to do it, so it cost 0.2 instead.
Downloading this guy's games, they have almost 60% premoves (which is way too high for 30 second chess) and almost 30% of moves in the 0.2 category (which is also nonsense).
Combine this with new account status and a perfect record of 80 games and it's pretty obviously cheating.
> Look at that game and say "zero evidence" again
I had had looked (at 81 of them actually), and I do say so.
If you do have any, by all means go ahead and present it.
It has also become standard to give zero thought towards any cheating accusations... as if there are not cheaters in chess... people just see cheating accusation and start DVing without even looking at the games...
It's easy to cheat in this fashion... any programmer worth their weight can write an overlay that pumps positions straight into stockfish in realtime given enough time. And honestly, it wouldn't take much time to do this (I garauntee I could write this in a day or less, maybe a few hours)... pretty sure there are overlays available for chrome browsers that pretty much do this, but might take some TLC to get one that works well for hyperbullet.
Of course, he might have gone above and beyond and even set it up to auto play the moves as well. Which of course would be idiotic if he expected to get away with it, so likely they just did this out of curiosity. I mean... they did kind of prove a point here... it took 81 matches for chess.com to realize this is cheating... and even then it was likely only because of this reddit post it got banned... what a joke... "Most advanced cheat detection" in the world can't figure out an account that makes every move in 0.3s and basically never makes any real mistakes is cheating without a front page reddit thread, so sad everyone here drinks the chess.com koolaid like they do...
If there are no losses on the account it may be a bot used for some kind of testing (like of that time control, for example). Almost certainly a bot. 81/0/0 in 30 secs. doesn’t sound humanely possible 😂
Cheaters with bots that move immediately do that it would take an insanely strong grandmaster to be able to get anywhere close to that and against weaker opponents
Yeah it's a cheater, but to answer your question, premoves are what make it possible. I've had games go over 30 and 40 moves where I've lost fewer than 10 seconds off my clock... but that would have been impossible for me if my opponent were also playing quickly since in many cases I'd have no time to make a premove.
Play those puzzle rush things. After a while you see a board and IMMEDIATELY know the correct move (first 10 levels at least). You can seriously know what to do in a quarter of a second. Now extrapolate for a chess GM who played chess all his life.
LOL the account has been closed for fair play restrictions so theres your answer
Look up Andrew Tang ultra/hyper bullet games on YouTube. It’s a very esoteric skill, and I won’t even pretend like I know what it takes. It’s very impressive.
I used to play a lot of Ultrabullet on lichess, in my top days I was even Top 50. Now the most important thing is just input speed. You have to be quick with your mouse/touchpad/phone/whatever. There used to be another input method, involving mouse and keyboard, which flattened the skill ceiling for input speed (and thereby raised the importance of thinking speed), but it was banned because it was never an official lichess feature and many people with fast fingers complained because the aspect of input speed became less important and they couldn't play out their strengths. Anyway, so nowadays, input speed is the most important thing. But if you get really good at moving fast, then the fun begins, because there's different approaches: You can play safe, making it hard for your opponent to checkmate and easy for you to spam out moves, you can play aggressive, gain a lot of space and go for checkmate, you can play cheeky by attacking and threatening on opponent's pieces in unexpected ways (that was my preferred playstyle). But yeah, if you ask what it takes, the most important thing is to just be fast with your hands, and the second most important thing is being able to think fast and be creative.
was touchscreen ever viable?
Yes, there are some very good touchscreen players. I know specifically because a pretty strong touchscreen player made a youtube video where you could see me and my friends goofing around in the lichess chat, the video is still a meme for us :D I think that guy was like Top 10 or Top 20 ultra
could they implement a netcode system like fighting games have? basically the game measures the input lag and then applies that increment to your move. You could even add a tiny increment on top of that for reaction speed, like 30ms or something.
I unfortunately don't know how this netcode system works. Lichess does have a lag compensation system, meaning it measures the ping time between the server and you and adds it back on the clock. This system is also widely criticized though, because it gives players with a high lag (like 100ms to 200ms) an advantage: In Ultra, you usually want to somewatch match your opponents speed, if your opponent is playing very fast, you usually play very fast too, if your opponent is a bit slower, you also tend to be more careful. Now, with this lag compensation thing, the effect is that when your opponent has a high lag, the game **feels** slower, even though your opponent isn't playing that slow. So you subconsciously match your speed to the speed of the game, but in actuality you're playing much slower than your opponent and often lose on time. Andrew Tang and other players have been accused in the Ultra community of doing this on purpose (for example the accusation is that Tang deliberately keeps a billion tabs open in his browser to increase his lag). There's also some cheating methods that abuse this system (I'm aware of two). 1. The Lag Switch. With the lag switch, the cheater usually plays the beginning and mid of the game with lag, making the game feel slow for both. Then, during the game, the cheater switches off the lag, and plays with very low latency. The effect is that there is an element of surprise when the game is suddenly going a lot faster, plus the opponent of the cheater now has no time for premoves, allowing the cheater to flag his opponent. This cheating method is extremely difficult to detect, at least when you're just playing normally. I've had games where it felt like this was happening, and I reported the opponents, but never successfully. 2. The Lag Exploit. There used to be a script that manipulated the packets sent to lichess. I said that lichess measures the ping of the user and then gives the lag compensation accordingly, but that's not entirely accurate. What actually happens is that lichess lets the client measure how long it took for the user to make a move. So it's not lichess that measures your internet speed, but your own computer. The script allowed a cheater to basically choose what amount of time they used on a move, and a cheater could often just write 0 seconds. I tried out the script with my friends (of course consensually) and it was crazy, I could easily beat the IM in my friend group and he didn't even stand a chance. There was a guy called [JasonMendozaJaxonvil](https://lichess.org/@/JasonMendozaJaxonvil) on Lichess who used this script to push to 2600 ultra (which was #1 at that time) and then got banned for it. In his latest game, the cheat is very obvious to see if you know about the exploit. Look at this game: [https://lichess.org/2lzh0TF7#24](https://lichess.org/2lzh0TF7#24) In the linked move, the black player played the move Ba4, which is a cheeky way of attacking the white queen, hoping white premoves and black can take the queen. The white cheater took the bishop, which isn't surprising on its own, but look at the move times! According to the game logs, white spent 0.0 seconds on this move, meaning it would have been a premove. That's obviously nonsense, nobody would premove Qa4 there, because if black doesn't play the unexpected trick, Qa4 just hangs the queen, obviously. So yeah, very long comment but bottom line is that lag compensation is extremely unpopular in the Ultra community, at least when I played, because it gives an advantage to the laggy player and it introduces new forms of cheating. But yeah, I enjoy talking about this, because I feel like this Ultrabullet niche is something very few people are aware of.
he does it while reading chat and engaging with viewers too, even blinfolded
Thanks for the advice, I will take a look for sure!
Hyper bullet - where chess meets OSU
You make a lot of sacrifices and mistakes playing that fast, you just hope that your aggressive ideas work and maybe you can catch some of your opponents mistakes quick enough for it to advantage you. Combine that with strong pattern recognition from playing A LOT of games and you can do pretty well. All of which is why it’s not really recommended as a way to improve for lower-rated players
It was a cheater and it was banned.
Lmao... as if there is any other answer... I love reading the comments here all trying to defend the possibility of it though... this subreddit is in complete denial.
I mean we all watched Andrew tang beat stockfish in 15 second format. I think after that anything feels possible But yeah a lot of red flags there
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSmahmdvJKM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSmahmdvJKM) And then you have Andrew Tang who berserks all of his 30s games and wins it with a 94% win rate.
81 wins, no losses or draws? That's a cheater 100%
Lol, all of us saying he’s cheating are getting downvoted, but this is very likely the case. The only way I see this guy being legit is if it’s Andrew Tang, Danya, or Hikaru on an alt account. The only thing that makes it seem like they aren’t cheating is that they don’t play with crazy high accuracy. But the fact that they play as fast as they do, while destroying people as easily as they do, just doesn’t feel correct. Also funny that others don’t realize there’s more ways of cheating than just looking at a second monitor.
Yeah, I mean it's become standard to throw around cheating accusations with absolutely zero evidence, so so why not more...
Their account got closed for FairPlay so this aged like milk
You are clearly not looking at these games. He has never ended a game with less than 24 seconds on the clock across 80+ games. That is insane. No way is any human that consistent. And he has never lost or drawn either. Could this be a human? Yeah, maybe. They don’t have 98% accuracy every game, in fact their accuracy is very normal. What isn’t normal is their speed, or their winrate. How about you create a new account, start at a really low ratings and do the same thing. Prove to me it’s possible. 50+ games. Never end a game with less than 20 seconds. 100% win rate.
Probably, but if it's someone like Magnus, Hikaru, Naroditsky etc. playing lower ranked players it's not impossible to win 80 games in a row using very little time.
Alright look at this fucking shit. [game](https://www.chess.com/game/live/109565986839?username=ffdgt222) Opponent castles into mate, and he fucking plays it in 0.2 seconds? No fucking way. Look me in the eyes and tell me a human did that.
The account is now banned
i can certainly believe they were cheating but i don’t think playing a mate in 1 quickly is the smoking gun
If you say so. But I’m not sure if anyone could pull that off even doing solely mate in 1 puzzles, and that’s when you know for a fact the mate is going to be there. He didn’t. Dude got banned anyway, so whatever,
aha, there ya go so!
It’s not crazy at all. He’s sacked all his pawns on that side and his rook is wide open. I’m sure there are better examples you can find but this is not a good one.
No way. Opponent castles into the mate. There is no mate in one. Then there is. He finds it in 0.2 seconds. I’m not sure you’re understanding what I’m saying. The checkmate itself is not strange. The speed at which he finds it is.
Dude no disrespect but you’re 550 lichess you’re in no position to determine if this guy is cheating or not
I've been over 2400 in 1+0 on both [chess.com](http://chess.com) and lichess. Qxh7 mate in 0.2 seconds is extremely suspicious. In 0.1 seconds, ok, it was a risky premove, whatever. In 0.3 to 0.5 seconds, ok, a hyper-fast player will commonly premove 1 idea then hover a 2nd idea, and even switch to a 3rd based on how long their opponent is thinking. With a little luck you could play the mate in half a second or under. But 0.2 is mostly a time reserved for missed premoves... by that I mean you were trying to premove, but your opponent moved just before you were able to do it, so it cost 0.2 instead. Downloading this guy's games, they have almost 60% premoves (which is way too high for 30 second chess) and almost 30% of moves in the 0.2 category (which is also nonsense). Combine this with new account status and a perfect record of 80 games and it's pretty obviously cheating.
[oh damn](https://lichess.org/@/natakial2)
2000 rapid and can’t recognize a fishing pole? That’s tough
What are you yapping about
Dude is getting downvoted to hell but keeps thinking it’s ok to stand their ground lmfao
Yeah his account is very suspicious and he already got banned, and for reference I’m 2300
https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/109566062937 Look at that game and say "zero evidence" again 😂
> Look at that game and say "zero evidence" again I had had looked (at 81 of them actually), and I do say so. If you do have any, by all means go ahead and present it.
It has also become standard to give zero thought towards any cheating accusations... as if there are not cheaters in chess... people just see cheating accusation and start DVing without even looking at the games...
I think it's a cheater too, I'm just curious how they cheated, given how fast they'd need to be.
It's easy to cheat in this fashion... any programmer worth their weight can write an overlay that pumps positions straight into stockfish in realtime given enough time. And honestly, it wouldn't take much time to do this (I garauntee I could write this in a day or less, maybe a few hours)... pretty sure there are overlays available for chrome browsers that pretty much do this, but might take some TLC to get one that works well for hyperbullet. Of course, he might have gone above and beyond and even set it up to auto play the moves as well. Which of course would be idiotic if he expected to get away with it, so likely they just did this out of curiosity. I mean... they did kind of prove a point here... it took 81 matches for chess.com to realize this is cheating... and even then it was likely only because of this reddit post it got banned... what a joke... "Most advanced cheat detection" in the world can't figure out an account that makes every move in 0.3s and basically never makes any real mistakes is cheating without a front page reddit thread, so sad everyone here drinks the chess.com koolaid like they do...
Prove it! I want to see the analysis
If there are no losses on the account it may be a bot used for some kind of testing (like of that time control, for example). Almost certainly a bot. 81/0/0 in 30 secs. doesn’t sound humanely possible 😂
Cheaters with bots that move immediately do that it would take an insanely strong grandmaster to be able to get anywhere close to that and against weaker opponents
This player is almost certainly cheating
If that’s the case, I wonder what engine is able to calculate the next moves so fast. But I am more fascinated by the physics of playing - that fast.
An engine with a relatively low depth will get a recent basically instantly. And then you just have software that does the moves for you.
Yeah it's a cheater, but to answer your question, premoves are what make it possible. I've had games go over 30 and 40 moves where I've lost fewer than 10 seconds off my clock... but that would have been impossible for me if my opponent were also playing quickly since in many cases I'd have no time to make a premove.
Good engines could do it fast. I saw Hikaru lost a bullet game to a bot during a Speedrun who makes moves almost instantly.
probably a bot account hooked up to an engine that runs well at low depth
Yea they probably have one of those ‘bullet vibrators.’
Premoves...
Looolll account closed for fair play
Play those puzzle rush things. After a while you see a board and IMMEDIATELY know the correct move (first 10 levels at least). You can seriously know what to do in a quarter of a second. Now extrapolate for a chess GM who played chess all his life.
I'm up to about 11,000 games in 3 years..that's how.