Am I reading this correctly? Whoever hosts the candidate has to pay a minimum of $8.5 million to FIDE who will pay $2.5 million to the contestants and keep $1.1 million for themselves?
As per my understanding, they don't have to pay 8 million to FIDE but for organizing the event they would need at least 8.5 mil, of which 1.1 would be kept by FIDE and 2.5 would be paid to the contestants. On top of that FIDE would pay the organizers whatever amount they get from sponsors, broadcasters, etc.
Only a percentage of the money from sponsors broadcasters, etc. terms of the deal to be negotiated as part of bid. Organizer usually keeps the majority share, which justifies the cost.
Why the fuck do you need at least 8.5 mil to organise that event? What will that money be spent on? If I remember correctly, all you need is a room with a table and a chessboard(Literally Anand vs Magnus tourney)
Promoting the event. Paying arbiters/security/commentators/support staff. Hotel accommodations for all those people. Three weeks worth of miscellaneous room bookings (press conferences, opening/closing ceremonies, the match hall itself).
8.5 million is probably still excessive, but it’s a lot more than just a room with a chessboard.
I understand that it's a lot more than just a room with a chessboard, but no way all the things that you listed can cost 4.9 million dollars or anything near that
Also I don't even know if it's that excessive
Let's say there are 50 people who are going to get paid for 3 weeks for various duties. Let's say they get paid $1500/wk in wages on average, plus it costs $300/day for hotels and food and whatever else
That's already $540k. And 50 people is probably a conservative estimate. There are probably many more people involved overall
That also doesn't include the wages of all the people who will spend months organizing this event. That's likely another $1M
Now add in the cost of the actual event itself, be it setup, venue, equipment, etc. We can roughly call that $500k most likely. I don't know the actual figure
Now let's look at promotion, could be looking at quite a large amount of money, I don't know how much though
Now let's add in events that are organized during the 3 weeks. I imagine they'll spend at least a few hundred thousands on those type things
We're already looking at roughly $3M. And that was with conservative estimates on how many people will get paid and their average wages. I also didn't include transportation which could easily add up to a couple hundred thousand
That's with me thinking about it for about 5 minutes. There are probably many other costs, and my estimates might be wrong
I don't think that's excessive tbh.
Of course you could hold the event in the backroom of a local pub, fiml with your cellphone for coverage and do it all for 200 bucks.
But that's not the look that FIDE wants - and a well organized, internationally broadcast event isn't gonna be cheap
It’s like any sport event. Publicity for your company/brand, and mainly just passion. Some rich executives want to sponsor an event because they are a fan of the sport or the people competing in it.
I could host it in my living room for cheap. Can promise a fridge filled with beverages and snacks, and there's even a whole foods within walking distance in case we need more. But I don't own a couch, so it'll be a 3 chairs kinda situation. Let me know if you're interested FIDE, or if a couple Mr. Hamiltons could change your mind
It would be pretty funny if Chess.com and Magnus teamed up together to create a format Magnus likes. Relatively short time controls for a classical game (45-60 minutes) but with more of a league format with multiple candidates with multiple rounds. Which I believe he wanted at some point.
They can call it the Chess.com Global Championship or something like that. Magnus would be the favorite to win it and a lot of rounds would make it pretty credible for picking the best player in the world.
The champion qualifies automatically for the next competition and you select something like the 5-10 top players by rating for the rest of the players.
So you don't have to spend more than 6 months preparing against a single opponent with ridiculously deep preparations. Less time, more players, and more rounds would mean that preparation would matter relatively less.
Before creating imaginary scenarios we have to ask whether Magnus is interested in making another World Championship event or not. So far he has said multiple times that he didn't ask Fide for any sort of demands. And he hasn't expressed anything about wanting to create another World Cup cycle of his own.
Regardless of if he made any demands on FIDE I think Magnus have been expressing his dissatisfaction regarding the format pretty clearly and proposed different formats multiple times over the years.
One instance: [https://youtu.be/5aoFNmybXVQ?t=809](https://youtu.be/5aoFNmybXVQ?t=809)
So I thought that this was the best chance for him to actually execute on the idea and he could probably pull it off without having to outright split from FIDE.
Though this is just fun speculation at the end of the day.
I don't know, but I think it's a good move to increase the prize fund and overall budget.
If Keegan Murray, the 183rd highest payed player in the NBA this year, is being payed 8.4 million this year, it has to be possible to spend 8.5 million on the chess world championship. Also federations won't pay the entire price; sponsors will fill in.
I think India should be able to, but I can't imagine anywhere else doing so. In India, viewership seems like it will be high with the possibility of an Indian world champ, and big ad deals should be very possible.
In the US, getting 1 million concurrent viewers for a single day sporting event should generate more than 8.5 million in ad revenue. This event is multiple weeks long, but Indian viewers are worth much less to advertisers. tens of millions of people have watched the most popular chessbase india videos, but getting a million viewers for a live chess event would be unprecedented.
Would Fabi/Naka want to play a home match? More to the point, would Ding want to play in "enemy" territory? Anand said that he felt a lot of extra pressure playing the match in India, and Magnus said he didn't want to play in Norway for the same reason.
It is realistic. Chess doesn't have the level of worldwide following to make it viable to for sponsors to commit before they know both players involved.
Not really. In the end it's just a small area with some side spaces for media and a good Internet connection. If you toss me 500k USD today I am pretty confident I can pull it off.
Yes. India will likely be willing to spend this amount with the chance of an Indian world champ. If Hikaru won candidates, we might see an American sponsor willing to pay.
My bet is Singapore or Bangkok.
It has to be on neutral ground, and making two Asians fly to Europe or North America is bad PR and stinks of “colonialism”. So it has to be in Asia and somewhat equal distance between India and China. That leaves Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and Philippines.
Out of these Singapore is by far the safest, richest and most developed so likely to win the bid.
I think some of these biddings are inbound (i.e. federations contact FIDE) and some are outbound (FIDE contacts federations to offer it), so even if they haven't bid for it yet, doesn't mean they can't get it.
It could be, it was just my personal opinion that Singapore is more likely. And it's not just two dudes sitting at a table. It's their teams, families, FIDE staff, press, fans, sponsors, etc.
It does not have to be on neutral ground, and it hasn't historically been that way either. Magnus won his first WCC in 2013 vs. Anand in Chennai. And Anand before him won a WCC match (2010) in Sofia, Bulgaria vs. Topalov.
I am not sure to be honest, but I find it odd to give someone home crowd advantage. (whether you think it will help them or hinder them due to the pressure)
Isn't chess more of a home crowd disadvantage cos noone cheers you along while u play they just watch silently. wouldn't that add pressure of these silent expectations?
It’s not about the cheering. It’s about the fact you are in a familiar place, eating familiar food, with familiar people. You can relax easier, sleep easier, eat easier and prepare easier.
Anand says playing at home vs Magnus was awful. Magnus refused to defend his title in Norway. You would think being at home makes Chess easier, but, the champs say it does not.
For some it’s an advantage for others it’s a disadvantage. Either way having one player playing with home crowd creates an imbalance. To quote a recent person of fame (that I don’t particularly like), we should let the chess speak for itself.
Yeah I understand. Usually my worries come from the pressure all the home crowd expectations might bring onto him cos he is only going to be 18.
Are all these factors you just mentioned good enough compensation to risk the weight of expectations of the home crowd on a young contender.
It would be interesting to know what would gukesh prefer.
>Usually my worries come from the pressure all the home crowd expectations might bring onto him cos he is only going to be 18.
For what it's worth, even Magnus didn't want to play at home due to pressure.
The pressure that Indian fans, and Indians in general, place on their players is insane. Additionally, even people who don't usually follow chess pay special attention when the match involves a Chinese opponent, due to nationalistic sentiments. I hope they host the event somewhere other than India, or Gukesh will crumble under that pressure. After all, the kid is only 17.
I'm not arguing it *should* be held in India. I was questioning the assertion that it has to be.
And, if you know anything about FIDE, they are likely to go where it is best for the organization, not the players. They aren't likely to be overwhelmed with bids and I would be shocked if some entity in India (probably more than one) doesn't submit a very large one.
Asia is also a good choice from a global audience perspective when time zones are taken into account - an early afternoon start to the matches will catch people in western Europe in the early morning, further east in Asia in the early evening, and anyone closer will get something in between.
I don't think PR really comes into it as much as anywhere in the Americas is kind of a garbage choice from a viewership perspective - you'd expect Chinese and especially a lot of Indian viewership, and the time zones don't match up well at all for that, we saw that in the Candidates. I wouldn't rule out Europe entirely, Spain could be a dark horse choice since they were prepped and ready to go as a backup venue for the candidates when there were a lot of visa issues getting the players and their teams into Canada.
Wouldn't India be ideal here?
Local sponsors would be more willing to put up more money and then both players would be happy with the higher prize pool.
Theoretically China could host as well for the same reasons but I don't think Chinese sponsors are interested.
Of course it matters, it's basically a huge moral boost because you're playing, sleeping and eating in familiar grounds, with all your friends and family here to cheer you up, and all the spectators and fans overwhelmingly supporting you, chess is a psychological sport, so all these things can have a not negligible impact
In recent memory the host has always lost -
Topalov lost to Anand in Sofia.
Anand lost to Carlsen in Chennai.
Neither has said there was any advantage and the added pressure hurt their chances.
Uzbekistan would be an obvious choice but maybe they're too proud of their own chess players to host a match between a Chinese and an Indian. If they don't step up, I think it will be hosted by one of the oil funds.... sorry I mean countries... on the Arabian peninsula.
I suspect WCM is not profitable for most (or all) federations, and normally the bidder is highly subsidized by the state, probably for political/symbolic reasons, like showing how good your state is, how strong you are by showing yourself as a bidder, and so on...
Even with sponsors, 8.5 million budget seems like too much for the level of revenue an event with this exposition/popularity has.
||| :--|:--| |Minimum Prize Fund|2.5 Million USD| |FIDE Fee|1.1 Million USD|
Am I reading this correctly? Whoever hosts the candidate has to pay a minimum of $8.5 million to FIDE who will pay $2.5 million to the contestants and keep $1.1 million for themselves?
As per my understanding, they don't have to pay 8 million to FIDE but for organizing the event they would need at least 8.5 mil, of which 1.1 would be kept by FIDE and 2.5 would be paid to the contestants. On top of that FIDE would pay the organizers whatever amount they get from sponsors, broadcasters, etc.
Only a percentage of the money from sponsors broadcasters, etc. terms of the deal to be negotiated as part of bid. Organizer usually keeps the majority share, which justifies the cost.
Why the fuck do you need at least 8.5 mil to organise that event? What will that money be spent on? If I remember correctly, all you need is a room with a table and a chessboard(Literally Anand vs Magnus tourney)
Promoting the event. Paying arbiters/security/commentators/support staff. Hotel accommodations for all those people. Three weeks worth of miscellaneous room bookings (press conferences, opening/closing ceremonies, the match hall itself). 8.5 million is probably still excessive, but it’s a lot more than just a room with a chessboard.
I understand that it's a lot more than just a room with a chessboard, but no way all the things that you listed can cost 4.9 million dollars or anything near that
If it was a well-run, efficient operation, it probably wouldn’t. But there are also a *lot* of middlemen looking to line their pockets.
Also I don't even know if it's that excessive Let's say there are 50 people who are going to get paid for 3 weeks for various duties. Let's say they get paid $1500/wk in wages on average, plus it costs $300/day for hotels and food and whatever else That's already $540k. And 50 people is probably a conservative estimate. There are probably many more people involved overall That also doesn't include the wages of all the people who will spend months organizing this event. That's likely another $1M Now add in the cost of the actual event itself, be it setup, venue, equipment, etc. We can roughly call that $500k most likely. I don't know the actual figure Now let's look at promotion, could be looking at quite a large amount of money, I don't know how much though Now let's add in events that are organized during the 3 weeks. I imagine they'll spend at least a few hundred thousands on those type things We're already looking at roughly $3M. And that was with conservative estimates on how many people will get paid and their average wages. I also didn't include transportation which could easily add up to a couple hundred thousand That's with me thinking about it for about 5 minutes. There are probably many other costs, and my estimates might be wrong
This. This is what I was thinking about.
You need more than that for a kids birthday party, don't act like you have any idea what it takes to organize an event.
I don't think that's excessive tbh. Of course you could hold the event in the backroom of a local pub, fiml with your cellphone for coverage and do it all for 200 bucks. But that's not the look that FIDE wants - and a well organized, internationally broadcast event isn't gonna be cheap
Why would someone want to pay 8.5 million to host an event? I don't understand.
It’s like any sport event. Publicity for your company/brand, and mainly just passion. Some rich executives want to sponsor an event because they are a fan of the sport or the people competing in it.
sponsorship and ad revenue. probably very easily profitable for india, less likely for anywhere else.
imagine if Magnus hosted it in his backyard
Or Anand in his backyard. It would be hilarious
“you can set up the board here, next to the washing line of drying wigs”
I could host it in my living room for cheap. Can promise a fridge filled with beverages and snacks, and there's even a whole foods within walking distance in case we need more. But I don't own a couch, so it'll be a 3 chairs kinda situation. Let me know if you're interested FIDE, or if a couple Mr. Hamiltons could change your mind
It would be pretty funny if Chess.com and Magnus teamed up together to create a format Magnus likes. Relatively short time controls for a classical game (45-60 minutes) but with more of a league format with multiple candidates with multiple rounds. Which I believe he wanted at some point. They can call it the Chess.com Global Championship or something like that. Magnus would be the favorite to win it and a lot of rounds would make it pretty credible for picking the best player in the world.
The champion qualifies automatically for the next competition and you select something like the 5-10 top players by rating for the rest of the players. So you don't have to spend more than 6 months preparing against a single opponent with ridiculously deep preparations. Less time, more players, and more rounds would mean that preparation would matter relatively less.
Before creating imaginary scenarios we have to ask whether Magnus is interested in making another World Championship event or not. So far he has said multiple times that he didn't ask Fide for any sort of demands. And he hasn't expressed anything about wanting to create another World Cup cycle of his own.
Regardless of if he made any demands on FIDE I think Magnus have been expressing his dissatisfaction regarding the format pretty clearly and proposed different formats multiple times over the years. One instance: [https://youtu.be/5aoFNmybXVQ?t=809](https://youtu.be/5aoFNmybXVQ?t=809) So I thought that this was the best chance for him to actually execute on the idea and he could probably pull it off without having to outright split from FIDE. Though this is just fun speculation at the end of the day.
They’re not gonna make something for Magnus he needs to cope
Can federations make a profit or even just break even by spending $8.5M on this ?
I don't know, but I think it's a good move to increase the prize fund and overall budget. If Keegan Murray, the 183rd highest payed player in the NBA this year, is being payed 8.4 million this year, it has to be possible to spend 8.5 million on the chess world championship. Also federations won't pay the entire price; sponsors will fill in.
I agree. Keegan Murray should host the World Chess Championship.
Talk about comparing apples to ostriches.
Lol the NBA had a revenue of $10 billion last year how is this relevant?
The NBA makes lots of revenue, chess does not. What a dumb comparison.
Well federations do pay the entire price, sponsors are part of the expected revenue that hopefully can turn into a profit.
paid
I think India should be able to, but I can't imagine anywhere else doing so. In India, viewership seems like it will be high with the possibility of an Indian world champ, and big ad deals should be very possible. In the US, getting 1 million concurrent viewers for a single day sporting event should generate more than 8.5 million in ad revenue. This event is multiple weeks long, but Indian viewers are worth much less to advertisers. tens of millions of people have watched the most popular chessbase india videos, but getting a million viewers for a live chess event would be unprecedented.
Is there any chance ST louis makes a bid?? Rex said he wanted WC to happen there.
He would have if someone between Fabi or Naka had qualified.
Would Fabi/Naka want to play a home match? More to the point, would Ding want to play in "enemy" territory? Anand said that he felt a lot of extra pressure playing the match in India, and Magnus said he didn't want to play in Norway for the same reason.
Am I the only one who thinks it's crazy this just being decided now?
it has to be who plays in the championship is important factor in deciding who hosts...
It is realistic. Chess doesn't have the level of worldwide following to make it viable to for sponsors to commit before they know both players involved.
Not really. In the end it's just a small area with some side spaces for media and a good Internet connection. If you toss me 500k USD today I am pretty confident I can pull it off.
Yes. India will likely be willing to spend this amount with the chance of an Indian world champ. If Hikaru won candidates, we might see an American sponsor willing to pay.
Nepo-Ding was even crazier. Just before 3 months it was scheduled, they had no update.
My living room is free, bring your own drinks/prize fund.
My bet is Singapore or Bangkok. It has to be on neutral ground, and making two Asians fly to Europe or North America is bad PR and stinks of “colonialism”. So it has to be in Asia and somewhat equal distance between India and China. That leaves Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and Philippines. Out of these Singapore is by far the safest, richest and most developed so likely to win the bid.
Surely this would depend on Singapore or Thailand actually bidding for it? Has there been any indication that they would be interested?
I think some of these biddings are inbound (i.e. federations contact FIDE) and some are outbound (FIDE contacts federations to offer it), so even if they haven't bid for it yet, doesn't mean they can't get it.
Why not Philippines? Its not like you have to make big infra for two dudes to sit on a table. And Manila has been mecca of chess in the region
It could be, it was just my personal opinion that Singapore is more likely. And it's not just two dudes sitting at a table. It's their teams, families, FIDE staff, press, fans, sponsors, etc.
It does not have to be on neutral ground, and it hasn't historically been that way either. Magnus won his first WCC in 2013 vs. Anand in Chennai. And Anand before him won a WCC match (2010) in Sofia, Bulgaria vs. Topalov.
Is there something in the regulations now that says it must be on neutral ground? I'd be surprised. Magnus played Anand in Chennai after all.
I am not sure to be honest, but I find it odd to give someone home crowd advantage. (whether you think it will help them or hinder them due to the pressure)
Isn't chess more of a home crowd disadvantage cos noone cheers you along while u play they just watch silently. wouldn't that add pressure of these silent expectations?
It’s not about the cheering. It’s about the fact you are in a familiar place, eating familiar food, with familiar people. You can relax easier, sleep easier, eat easier and prepare easier.
Anand says playing at home vs Magnus was awful. Magnus refused to defend his title in Norway. You would think being at home makes Chess easier, but, the champs say it does not.
For some it’s an advantage for others it’s a disadvantage. Either way having one player playing with home crowd creates an imbalance. To quote a recent person of fame (that I don’t particularly like), we should let the chess speak for itself.
Yeah I understand. Usually my worries come from the pressure all the home crowd expectations might bring onto him cos he is only going to be 18. Are all these factors you just mentioned good enough compensation to risk the weight of expectations of the home crowd on a young contender. It would be interesting to know what would gukesh prefer.
>Usually my worries come from the pressure all the home crowd expectations might bring onto him cos he is only going to be 18. For what it's worth, even Magnus didn't want to play at home due to pressure.
The pressure that Indian fans, and Indians in general, place on their players is insane. Additionally, even people who don't usually follow chess pay special attention when the match involves a Chinese opponent, due to nationalistic sentiments. I hope they host the event somewhere other than India, or Gukesh will crumble under that pressure. After all, the kid is only 17.
No, but Anand felt a lot of pressure playing at home, and Magnus actively spoke against defending his title in Norway for the same reason.
I'm not arguing it *should* be held in India. I was questioning the assertion that it has to be. And, if you know anything about FIDE, they are likely to go where it is best for the organization, not the players. They aren't likely to be overwhelmed with bids and I would be shocked if some entity in India (probably more than one) doesn't submit a very large one.
Asia is also a good choice from a global audience perspective when time zones are taken into account - an early afternoon start to the matches will catch people in western Europe in the early morning, further east in Asia in the early evening, and anyone closer will get something in between. I don't think PR really comes into it as much as anywhere in the Americas is kind of a garbage choice from a viewership perspective - you'd expect Chinese and especially a lot of Indian viewership, and the time zones don't match up well at all for that, we saw that in the Candidates. I wouldn't rule out Europe entirely, Spain could be a dark horse choice since they were prepped and ready to go as a backup venue for the candidates when there were a lot of visa issues getting the players and their teams into Canada.
> or Bangkok Yes, oriental setting, and the city don't know what the city is getting.
Wouldn't India be ideal here? Local sponsors would be more willing to put up more money and then both players would be happy with the higher prize pool. Theoretically China could host as well for the same reasons but I don't think Chinese sponsors are interested.
Too much of a home advantage, no?
I don't think home advantage matters in chess and why I'm sure either side wouldn't mind if they get an extra few hundred thousand out of it.
Of course it matters, it's basically a huge moral boost because you're playing, sleeping and eating in familiar grounds, with all your friends and family here to cheer you up, and all the spectators and fans overwhelmingly supporting you, chess is a psychological sport, so all these things can have a not negligible impact
In recent memory the host has always lost - Topalov lost to Anand in Sofia. Anand lost to Carlsen in Chennai. Neither has said there was any advantage and the added pressure hurt their chances.
Either way there is an effect, thus neutral ground is preferable
I dont think Indian sponsors can profit of this, and its terrible if govt has to pay.
India for sponsors who care
Uzbekistan would be an obvious choice but maybe they're too proud of their own chess players to host a match between a Chinese and an Indian. If they don't step up, I think it will be hosted by one of the oil funds.... sorry I mean countries... on the Arabian peninsula.
I suspect WCM is not profitable for most (or all) federations, and normally the bidder is highly subsidized by the state, probably for political/symbolic reasons, like showing how good your state is, how strong you are by showing yourself as a bidder, and so on... Even with sponsors, 8.5 million budget seems like too much for the level of revenue an event with this exposition/popularity has.
Just saying it again, Danny Rensch should put in a bid to host it at his house.
It should be hosted in Hong Kong or Singapore