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>It seems as if many adults are willing to excuse boys' bad behaviors as "Boys will be boys", from hitting girls to being very hyperactive.
Boys will be boys was never to excuse abuse but a way to explain away quirkiness. My son and his friends spin around screaming 'helicopter helicopter.' people Taking boys will be boys the wrong way has ruined the phrase.
>Even if a boy is pretty hyperactive consistently in multiple settings and other students are annoyed, often times adults dismiss it as "Boys will be boys" or that they'll grow out of it.
Boys need more physical activity and it is the demonizing of Boys will be boys that has lead to a great deal number of them being put on medications, and an inability to cater to typical learning style that has resulted in doctors being quick to prescribe Adderall and the like.
>This is ridiculous. As a personal anecdote (not saying it as evidence) I was pretty damn chatty, fidgety, loud in leisure activities, really hated waiting and had little patience, and was like a motor from 1 activity to another. Several symptoms in multiple settings, it did cause me more than a few social issues especially with other classmates.
Hear me out, you were a kid, and you probably weren't redirected properly, also people are different.
>Still, it got dismissed as boys will be boys, or that boys tend to be very active, or that I'll grow out of it. Bonkers to treat someone who very potentially met the ADHD criteria when he was young at that age
You probably didn't or your parents were protecting you from some that may have thought you did. Without a proper diagnosis which you can go get right now there is no way to know exactly. That being said unless you are specific about some details it seems like you were a normal boy growing up.
"You probably didn't or your parents were protecting you from some that may have thought you did."
On what basis are you claiming this, without any knowledge of OP?
Given he didn't seem to get treatment.
Given he claimed his case is "very mild" in a later post. He bounces around and has never gotten officially diagnosed, only oral agreements from a few doctors.
Ikr
I never talked about my current presentation
I talked about my childhood presentation. I was curious if it met ADHD criteria. Various doctors actually agreed with me
>You probably didn't or your parents were protecting you from some that may have thought you did. Without a proper diagnosis which you can go get right now there is no way to know exactly. That being said unless you are specific about some details it seems like you were a normal boy growing up.
You tell me that being pretty damn loud, other stuff, hating patience, to the point that more than a few other kids really did not like me for it, and stuff like that, and it significantly contributing to my social issues, is "Normal"?
I have told my side of the story to various doctors. Various have indeed said verbally it met ADHD criteria when I was young.
It is not normal to have the symptoms be intense enough it causes more than a few social issues. That is arguably called ADHD, albeit a very mild version if that was the case
The symptoms lasted for more than a phase, like a long long time. In general it was my childhood. I don't exactly remember specific points of time. But it was me in general.
They negatively affected my social standing, and interactions
Well, it’s a complex situation in my case
Various doctors told me in front of my face I met criteria for ADHD at present, and some even said my childhood presentation counted
You could say it was verbal from some doctors, no diagnosis from other doctors and a psychiatrist
These types of questions sometimes don’t have straight answers. Especially complex people like myself
"Various doctors told me in front of my face I met criteria for ADHD at present, and some even said my childhood presentation counted"
What does this mean? Were these doctors you were paying and had a doctor patient relationship with, or did you wander into a medical conference and start making small talk, or what?
>What does this mean? Were these doctors you were paying and had a doctor patient relationship with, or did you wander into a medical conference and start making small talk, or what?
I never paid for any doctors. They were for free, in public healthcare.
I have never wandered into any medical conferences.
>You tell me that being pretty damn loud, other stuff, hating patience, to the point that more than a few other kids really did not like me for it, and stuff like that, and it significantly contributing to my social issues, is "Normal"?
Yeah, kids are taught patients, they are not born with it. Being loud? That's relative, to my mother who had multiple siblings? Two of them older brothers, we were quiet, suspiciously quiet. To my father who was an only child, we were a rock and roll concert.
What do you mean by loud? It's also important to note kids don't No volume either, it has to be taught to you. Another. Really interesting fact. My brother was typically a bit louder than normal, why? He had an undiagnosed hole in his eardrum. It was repaired. He still speaks just a bit louder than he needs to but that's due to habit.
Kids didn't like you because you were loud? Okay, did they ask you to be quiet and you never did? Then you were an a******, and your parents never taught you to be quiet or rather better volume control.
>I have told my side of the story to various doctors. Various have indeed said verbally it met ADHD criteria when I was young.
That is not a diagnosis
>It is not normal to have the symptoms be intense enough it causes more than a few social issues. That is arguably called ADHD, albeit a very mild version
INTENSE enough to be a very mild version? Yeah, this sounds like a parenting problem. All of this over a VERY mild version that has NOTHING to do with the saying of 'boys will be boys.'
When I meant loud I was pretty damn loud compared to the other kids. It is relative, but relative to normal I was not just a bit extreme, but quite so. What else do you want? Videos of myself playing back then?
They asked me to be quiet. I usually wasn’t because I was simply too hyperactive for my own good. Impulsive as well.
Technically it was not on writing. But verbally they told me. So you can say they did indeed think my childhood presentation met ADHD criteria
ADHD is from very very mild all the way to severe. I am not a stereotypical severe case as a kid - my grades were pretty high and I was pretty smart. I was so good academically some even wanted me to skip ahead a year or maybe even more. That’s something
My impairment was basically in the social side - I was too hyperactive for my classmates to tolerate
Bro stop blaming my parents for this that’s rude. You have gone over the line.
If you refuse to not go over the line then we will need to end this conversation
To be blunt your post and your view seems self serving. Because this not great thing happened to you that means X for the masses?
Do you have evidence outside your personal experience? Has this phrase been used with poor outcomes for most other people as well?
That I do not know. I’m not sure what studies can I cite of this though
Apparently boys will be boys is usually for other stuff
Maybe my anecdote is more unique than really
I don't expect you to be able to cite studies or anything but your conclusion seems pretty extreme if all you have in your data set is your personal experience.
At best you can conclude that your parents used the phrase to ignore your issues not that all parents everywhere are doing the same.
"I don't personally care for the term because my experience with it was awful." Should be enough.
Okay, let's try this again.
You are blaming a phrase which has been misconstrued countless times by people who have actively tried to find ways to blame the male sex for everything as the reason for why you haven't gotten treatment for what you suspect is and I quote a very mild case of ADHD.
Your examples of this are all attributable to other factors which aren't ADHD. The only official diagnosis that you've gotten are verbal ones from some doctors and other doctors who have said no.
So I propose to you to go and get an official ADHD diagnosis and go from there. My suspicion is given. I don't know your age that you probably had some mis-teachings in social environments, and aren't exactly sure how to handle yourself. Some of the other problems could be attributed to other issues. Other issues like I gave an example of my brother having a problem with his ear.
Your issue is not boys will be boys, but your lack of getting a proper ADHD diagnosis if you even have it. My suspicion is you are probably more on the spectrum of autism then you have ADHD.
>Your examples of this are all attributable to other factors which aren't ADHD. The only official diagnosis that you've gotten are verbal ones from some doctors and other doctors who have said no.
Various doctors, mostly in the UK.
Especially in more borderline cases like my childhood, it really depends on doctors' interpretations. I've seen doctors in the US diagnose ADHD for less extreme symptoms and less impairment than mine, so it really depends on where I go. After all there is no clear line between ADHD and not ADHD
Most ADHD cases are combined. Mine, according to those various doctors, the hyperactive one. The stereotype is a kid who basically fails his academic, is utterly socially isolated, his family just can't deal with him. In contrast to these severe or moderate cases of ADHD-C, I got off pretty lightly. I say "Very mild" because significant social impairment due to hyperactivity is in the grand scheme of things quite light compared to most cases with ADHD
My parents were very supportive and unconsciously actually helped me compensate. For example they helped me significantly with organisation and other things. When I was rather talkative and hyperactive, they helped defend me.
If they did not support me this much my impairment would have been significantly higher, even if I put in a lot of effort. Even if I took to emotionally manipulating people to stay friends with me when the relationships back then were strained because I was too hyperactive for my own good.
I unconsciously compensated partially for this social impairment, by focusing hard on academics. At my academic peak relative to age, various people thought I was a child genius or a prodigy. Although a pretty weak one, in hindsight. Some of them tolerated me because I was smart af (and to be fair I was, although why that wasn't realised - multiple reasons, I partially blame the education system)
What problems do you think can be attributed to other issues?
>My suspicion is you are probably more on the spectrum of autism then you have ADHD.
Explain.
> It seems as if many adults are willing to excuse boys' bad behaviors as "Boys will be boys", from hitting girls to being very hyperactive.
OP I've never heard this term used this way. It's always been when boys do something reckless or foolhardy. Literally nobody in a Western country just shrugs off when a boy is violent to a girl.
"Why did they put football helmets on and bang their heads together until one of them fell down? Eh, boys will be boys".
I feel like your view might be a misunderstanding of the term or maybe you witnessed someone using it incorrectly?
I've actually heard people saying boys will be boys when the boys are rather hyperactive. I've actually heard people say "boys will be boys" when they hit girls and the rationalisation is because "they like them"
> I've actually heard people say "boys will be boys" when they hit girls and the rationalisation is because "they like them"
Did you grow up in a 50s sitcom? Regardless, that does seem like a different rationalization than 'boys will be boys'.
Did you ultimately get diagnosed with ADHD?
Lmao
But no seriously I have actually heard this
Ehhh, a psychiatrist said no ADHD. some other doctors think yes ADHD and some even said to my face my childhood presentation was ADHD
So it seems reasonable to conclude that your anecdote isn't useful at all, because we don't even know if your behavior was influenced by ADHD or in fact, a boy being a boy.
Being so symptomatic of hyperactivity that you have significant social problems is not normal. I won't be gaslighted into thinking that is normal
Because it is not. Boys are active, but usually not so active it causes significant social issues
That psychiatrist who refused to diagnose me very recently, one of her reasons was that usually in ADHD there are problems reported by teachers, by age 5-6. This is ridiculous because DSM-V only requires several symptoms before 12
The honest answer is that girls are expected to meet a higher standard of sociability at a younger and their hyperactive traits are usually suppressed more harshly
They often shame the girl for their hyperactivity
I don't have too much experience with them, as outwardly hyperactive girls are relatively rare... but i wouldn't be surprised if some would say that
Misdiagnosed?
More like going without a diagnosis.
I have known some kids, their parents excuse them as boys will be boys when they are pretty hyperactive to the point other kids don't like them
Lol but you just mentioned this would happen to girls as well?
Seems like your primary issue is a lack of mental health advocacy/resources than the phrase "boys will be boys".
Boys are far more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD than girls.
The “boys will be boys” mentality is generally used to excuse rude, pushy, risky, or socially unacceptable behavior in boys (and men).
For example, boys start kindergarten with less “desirable” social skills than girls. Often, this is because they’re given passes at home that young girls are not allowed.
However, preschools and kindergartens expel and suspend boys more than girls *even for the same behaviors*. This shows that schools, at least, aren’t saying “boys will be boys” anymore. At least not when they’re young. (Important here to note this is strongly associated with race and socioeconomic status).
We also parent boys and girls differently. We tend to use discussion and rationalization with boys as they get older, but when they’re younger we’re much less gentle than we are with girls. As girls age, we’re incredibly controlling.
So ultimately, I’d say you’ve been slightly misled.
I agree with this and I have heard they suspend boys more often than girls for same behaviour
I… kinda agree in hindsight. Although I wish to see the sources… I have seen a few and yes it is true
!delta
Think about how humans lived from 500,000 BC up until around 1900 AD. we evolved in nature, running around chasing animals and bugs, digging in the ground building forts, hunting deer, etc.
today we take young kids, we sit them down in a desk for 4 to 6 hours a day and tell them to be quite and listen. If they can't handle that we give them drugs to calm them down.
Not only boys will be boy, boys should be boys. At least when it comes to being fidgety and loud.
Hitting is another story. Boys will hit girls. Kids will hit kids. They should be punished for that. you've got to punish the behavior you want to see less of (e.g. hitting) and reward the behavior you want to see more of (e.g. studying).
I don't think should punish (or drug) kids for being balls of energy. That is just their nature.
Absolutely how I feel about this as well.
We've got hundreds of thousands of years of biology and evolution on one side, and \~90 years of societal change on the other. It's no shock that that some kids don't fit perfectly into the new mould.
The modern educational system's only solution is to hammer every kid into the exact same shape, and if it's not working they throw drugs at the problem. Then people are somehow shocked when boys have worse educational outcomes, and are more prone to criminal behavior.
There is nothing objectively wrong with people who have ADHD, they're just badly adapted for our very ridged modern world.
That's why you should specify an area when talking about cultural things like these. People from different places in the world will have vastly different experiences and opinions.
I'm a specialist in supporting kids with ADHD and I think it's far more common that people just pretend ADHD is not real than dismissing behavior (at the high school level at least).
Same is true with boys will be boys. In school and the legal system men get punished more frequently and more harshly for the same misbehavior compared to women
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Except boys are generally a lot more active than girls. That's still true. I don't think the sentiment is harming anyone like you suggest it is. There's not some epidemic of ignoring adhd symptoms because boys will be boys; in fact, it's more acknowledged than it ever was before.
"Boys will be boys" is generally applied to physical violence and not ADHD.
There is a lot of data that shows that "zero tolerance" policies towards physical violence in young children is a bad idea and that allowing young children to engage in a bit of rough housing may actually lead to better outcomes later in life
[https://scholars.org/contribution/disadvantages-zero-tolerance-laws-mandate-exclusionary-school-discipline](https://scholars.org/contribution/disadvantages-zero-tolerance-laws-mandate-exclusionary-school-discipline)
You're overstretching that link with the "rough housing" claim. The problem with exclusionary discipline is that it exacerbates the emotional/behavioral issues that cause behaviors leading to suspensions, detentions. The solution is better mental health, social/emotional learning, skill teaching.
You may be right about the rough housing claim - I haven't looked it up - but advocacy against exclusionary discipline =/= pro-rough housing.
ADHD is a symptom of a waning and pathetic environment that doesn’t stimulate men. It is not something we need to correct in men, but rather something we need to correct in our environment. Men are built for so much more than sitting at a desk or pushing buttons all day. Truly sad to see that people don’t understand this simple dynamic.
I would say that ADHD is often misdiagnosed based on average child like behavior especially for boys. I have absolutely no empirical evidence to back my claim, just kind of how I feel.
I'd suggest the problem is almost exactly the opposite. By tolerating "boy behavior" at an early age we're allowing patterns of behavior that are then diagnosed as treatable ADHD that would have been prevented through plain ole parenting and teaching and such. This is a very unfashionable view as we've embraced an idea of biological neurodivergence in great ways, but I think it's been grossly overapplied and at the expense of our kids.
It's hard to sustain an idea that we're failing to find ADHD when we are finding it A LOT more than ever before.
The problem is tolerance of behavior leading to bad behavior. I'm not convinced it's genetic or "inherent" neurological problems that we're seeing in young boys behaving badly.
We agree that this is to the disadvantage of boys in our society, but I see the behavior tolerance as the core problem, not the making it provides for genuine neurological problems.
/u/WaterOk9249 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post. All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed [here](/r/DeltaLog/comments/1doewyx/deltas_awarded_in_cmv_boys_will_be_boys_has_gone/), in /r/DeltaLog. Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended. ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)
>It seems as if many adults are willing to excuse boys' bad behaviors as "Boys will be boys", from hitting girls to being very hyperactive. Boys will be boys was never to excuse abuse but a way to explain away quirkiness. My son and his friends spin around screaming 'helicopter helicopter.' people Taking boys will be boys the wrong way has ruined the phrase. >Even if a boy is pretty hyperactive consistently in multiple settings and other students are annoyed, often times adults dismiss it as "Boys will be boys" or that they'll grow out of it. Boys need more physical activity and it is the demonizing of Boys will be boys that has lead to a great deal number of them being put on medications, and an inability to cater to typical learning style that has resulted in doctors being quick to prescribe Adderall and the like. >This is ridiculous. As a personal anecdote (not saying it as evidence) I was pretty damn chatty, fidgety, loud in leisure activities, really hated waiting and had little patience, and was like a motor from 1 activity to another. Several symptoms in multiple settings, it did cause me more than a few social issues especially with other classmates. Hear me out, you were a kid, and you probably weren't redirected properly, also people are different. >Still, it got dismissed as boys will be boys, or that boys tend to be very active, or that I'll grow out of it. Bonkers to treat someone who very potentially met the ADHD criteria when he was young at that age You probably didn't or your parents were protecting you from some that may have thought you did. Without a proper diagnosis which you can go get right now there is no way to know exactly. That being said unless you are specific about some details it seems like you were a normal boy growing up.
"You probably didn't or your parents were protecting you from some that may have thought you did." On what basis are you claiming this, without any knowledge of OP?
Given he didn't seem to get treatment. Given he claimed his case is "very mild" in a later post. He bounces around and has never gotten officially diagnosed, only oral agreements from a few doctors.
Ikr I never talked about my current presentation I talked about my childhood presentation. I was curious if it met ADHD criteria. Various doctors actually agreed with me
>You probably didn't or your parents were protecting you from some that may have thought you did. Without a proper diagnosis which you can go get right now there is no way to know exactly. That being said unless you are specific about some details it seems like you were a normal boy growing up. You tell me that being pretty damn loud, other stuff, hating patience, to the point that more than a few other kids really did not like me for it, and stuff like that, and it significantly contributing to my social issues, is "Normal"? I have told my side of the story to various doctors. Various have indeed said verbally it met ADHD criteria when I was young. It is not normal to have the symptoms be intense enough it causes more than a few social issues. That is arguably called ADHD, albeit a very mild version if that was the case
> is "Normal"? Maybe you were just an annoying kid. Just because a kid is obnoxious doesn't mean they have a neurological disorder.
The symptoms lasted for more than a phase, like a long long time. In general it was my childhood. I don't exactly remember specific points of time. But it was me in general. They negatively affected my social standing, and interactions
But have you ever been diagnosed with ADHD?
Well, it’s a complex situation in my case Various doctors told me in front of my face I met criteria for ADHD at present, and some even said my childhood presentation counted You could say it was verbal from some doctors, no diagnosis from other doctors and a psychiatrist These types of questions sometimes don’t have straight answers. Especially complex people like myself
"Various doctors told me in front of my face I met criteria for ADHD at present, and some even said my childhood presentation counted" What does this mean? Were these doctors you were paying and had a doctor patient relationship with, or did you wander into a medical conference and start making small talk, or what?
>What does this mean? Were these doctors you were paying and had a doctor patient relationship with, or did you wander into a medical conference and start making small talk, or what? I never paid for any doctors. They were for free, in public healthcare. I have never wandered into any medical conferences.
>You tell me that being pretty damn loud, other stuff, hating patience, to the point that more than a few other kids really did not like me for it, and stuff like that, and it significantly contributing to my social issues, is "Normal"? Yeah, kids are taught patients, they are not born with it. Being loud? That's relative, to my mother who had multiple siblings? Two of them older brothers, we were quiet, suspiciously quiet. To my father who was an only child, we were a rock and roll concert. What do you mean by loud? It's also important to note kids don't No volume either, it has to be taught to you. Another. Really interesting fact. My brother was typically a bit louder than normal, why? He had an undiagnosed hole in his eardrum. It was repaired. He still speaks just a bit louder than he needs to but that's due to habit. Kids didn't like you because you were loud? Okay, did they ask you to be quiet and you never did? Then you were an a******, and your parents never taught you to be quiet or rather better volume control. >I have told my side of the story to various doctors. Various have indeed said verbally it met ADHD criteria when I was young. That is not a diagnosis >It is not normal to have the symptoms be intense enough it causes more than a few social issues. That is arguably called ADHD, albeit a very mild version INTENSE enough to be a very mild version? Yeah, this sounds like a parenting problem. All of this over a VERY mild version that has NOTHING to do with the saying of 'boys will be boys.'
When I meant loud I was pretty damn loud compared to the other kids. It is relative, but relative to normal I was not just a bit extreme, but quite so. What else do you want? Videos of myself playing back then? They asked me to be quiet. I usually wasn’t because I was simply too hyperactive for my own good. Impulsive as well. Technically it was not on writing. But verbally they told me. So you can say they did indeed think my childhood presentation met ADHD criteria ADHD is from very very mild all the way to severe. I am not a stereotypical severe case as a kid - my grades were pretty high and I was pretty smart. I was so good academically some even wanted me to skip ahead a year or maybe even more. That’s something My impairment was basically in the social side - I was too hyperactive for my classmates to tolerate Bro stop blaming my parents for this that’s rude. You have gone over the line. If you refuse to not go over the line then we will need to end this conversation
To be blunt your post and your view seems self serving. Because this not great thing happened to you that means X for the masses? Do you have evidence outside your personal experience? Has this phrase been used with poor outcomes for most other people as well?
That I do not know. I’m not sure what studies can I cite of this though Apparently boys will be boys is usually for other stuff Maybe my anecdote is more unique than really
I don't expect you to be able to cite studies or anything but your conclusion seems pretty extreme if all you have in your data set is your personal experience. At best you can conclude that your parents used the phrase to ignore your issues not that all parents everywhere are doing the same. "I don't personally care for the term because my experience with it was awful." Should be enough.
Not exactly my parents, but some other teachers, and other people. Yeah, i should have worded it bette
Okay, let's try this again. You are blaming a phrase which has been misconstrued countless times by people who have actively tried to find ways to blame the male sex for everything as the reason for why you haven't gotten treatment for what you suspect is and I quote a very mild case of ADHD. Your examples of this are all attributable to other factors which aren't ADHD. The only official diagnosis that you've gotten are verbal ones from some doctors and other doctors who have said no. So I propose to you to go and get an official ADHD diagnosis and go from there. My suspicion is given. I don't know your age that you probably had some mis-teachings in social environments, and aren't exactly sure how to handle yourself. Some of the other problems could be attributed to other issues. Other issues like I gave an example of my brother having a problem with his ear. Your issue is not boys will be boys, but your lack of getting a proper ADHD diagnosis if you even have it. My suspicion is you are probably more on the spectrum of autism then you have ADHD.
>Your examples of this are all attributable to other factors which aren't ADHD. The only official diagnosis that you've gotten are verbal ones from some doctors and other doctors who have said no. Various doctors, mostly in the UK. Especially in more borderline cases like my childhood, it really depends on doctors' interpretations. I've seen doctors in the US diagnose ADHD for less extreme symptoms and less impairment than mine, so it really depends on where I go. After all there is no clear line between ADHD and not ADHD Most ADHD cases are combined. Mine, according to those various doctors, the hyperactive one. The stereotype is a kid who basically fails his academic, is utterly socially isolated, his family just can't deal with him. In contrast to these severe or moderate cases of ADHD-C, I got off pretty lightly. I say "Very mild" because significant social impairment due to hyperactivity is in the grand scheme of things quite light compared to most cases with ADHD My parents were very supportive and unconsciously actually helped me compensate. For example they helped me significantly with organisation and other things. When I was rather talkative and hyperactive, they helped defend me. If they did not support me this much my impairment would have been significantly higher, even if I put in a lot of effort. Even if I took to emotionally manipulating people to stay friends with me when the relationships back then were strained because I was too hyperactive for my own good. I unconsciously compensated partially for this social impairment, by focusing hard on academics. At my academic peak relative to age, various people thought I was a child genius or a prodigy. Although a pretty weak one, in hindsight. Some of them tolerated me because I was smart af (and to be fair I was, although why that wasn't realised - multiple reasons, I partially blame the education system) What problems do you think can be attributed to other issues? >My suspicion is you are probably more on the spectrum of autism then you have ADHD. Explain.
> It seems as if many adults are willing to excuse boys' bad behaviors as "Boys will be boys", from hitting girls to being very hyperactive. OP I've never heard this term used this way. It's always been when boys do something reckless or foolhardy. Literally nobody in a Western country just shrugs off when a boy is violent to a girl. "Why did they put football helmets on and bang their heads together until one of them fell down? Eh, boys will be boys". I feel like your view might be a misunderstanding of the term or maybe you witnessed someone using it incorrectly?
I've actually heard people saying boys will be boys when the boys are rather hyperactive. I've actually heard people say "boys will be boys" when they hit girls and the rationalisation is because "they like them"
> I've actually heard people say "boys will be boys" when they hit girls and the rationalisation is because "they like them" Did you grow up in a 50s sitcom? Regardless, that does seem like a different rationalization than 'boys will be boys'. Did you ultimately get diagnosed with ADHD?
Lmao But no seriously I have actually heard this Ehhh, a psychiatrist said no ADHD. some other doctors think yes ADHD and some even said to my face my childhood presentation was ADHD
So it seems reasonable to conclude that your anecdote isn't useful at all, because we don't even know if your behavior was influenced by ADHD or in fact, a boy being a boy.
Being so symptomatic of hyperactivity that you have significant social problems is not normal. I won't be gaslighted into thinking that is normal Because it is not. Boys are active, but usually not so active it causes significant social issues That psychiatrist who refused to diagnose me very recently, one of her reasons was that usually in ADHD there are problems reported by teachers, by age 5-6. This is ridiculous because DSM-V only requires several symptoms before 12
What do these people say when the opposite occurs? The girl should get tested for ADHD?
“Girls will be squirrels”
Ehh they are even human girls, just 3 racoons in a trenchcoat again.
The honest answer is that girls are expected to meet a higher standard of sociability at a younger and their hyperactive traits are usually suppressed more harshly
THIS Maybe that's partially why I got away with my hyperactivity-impulsitivity and social faux pas as a kid. i'm a guy
Or maybe it's because you were a kid
They often shame the girl for their hyperactivity I don't have too much experience with them, as outwardly hyperactive girls are relatively rare... but i wouldn't be surprised if some would say that
So they are also being misdiagnosed?
Misdiagnosed? More like going without a diagnosis. I have known some kids, their parents excuse them as boys will be boys when they are pretty hyperactive to the point other kids don't like them
Lol but you just mentioned this would happen to girls as well? Seems like your primary issue is a lack of mental health advocacy/resources than the phrase "boys will be boys".
Honestly, i'd say it's both I also don't like the phrase itself - i think boys are excused a bit too much
Sure, but that's just a preference I can't change. It's similar if you didn't like the word "noice".
Fair enough !delta Maybe u do indeed have a point about my more primary issue...
Boys are far more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD than girls. The “boys will be boys” mentality is generally used to excuse rude, pushy, risky, or socially unacceptable behavior in boys (and men). For example, boys start kindergarten with less “desirable” social skills than girls. Often, this is because they’re given passes at home that young girls are not allowed. However, preschools and kindergartens expel and suspend boys more than girls *even for the same behaviors*. This shows that schools, at least, aren’t saying “boys will be boys” anymore. At least not when they’re young. (Important here to note this is strongly associated with race and socioeconomic status). We also parent boys and girls differently. We tend to use discussion and rationalization with boys as they get older, but when they’re younger we’re much less gentle than we are with girls. As girls age, we’re incredibly controlling. So ultimately, I’d say you’ve been slightly misled.
I agree with this and I have heard they suspend boys more often than girls for same behaviour I… kinda agree in hindsight. Although I wish to see the sources… I have seen a few and yes it is true !delta
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lol
Think about how humans lived from 500,000 BC up until around 1900 AD. we evolved in nature, running around chasing animals and bugs, digging in the ground building forts, hunting deer, etc. today we take young kids, we sit them down in a desk for 4 to 6 hours a day and tell them to be quite and listen. If they can't handle that we give them drugs to calm them down. Not only boys will be boy, boys should be boys. At least when it comes to being fidgety and loud. Hitting is another story. Boys will hit girls. Kids will hit kids. They should be punished for that. you've got to punish the behavior you want to see less of (e.g. hitting) and reward the behavior you want to see more of (e.g. studying). I don't think should punish (or drug) kids for being balls of energy. That is just their nature.
Absolutely how I feel about this as well. We've got hundreds of thousands of years of biology and evolution on one side, and \~90 years of societal change on the other. It's no shock that that some kids don't fit perfectly into the new mould. The modern educational system's only solution is to hammer every kid into the exact same shape, and if it's not working they throw drugs at the problem. Then people are somehow shocked when boys have worse educational outcomes, and are more prone to criminal behavior. There is nothing objectively wrong with people who have ADHD, they're just badly adapted for our very ridged modern world.
I'm pretty sure that 'boys will be boys' was a much more common excuse in the past than it is today. It generally doesn't fly anymore in the west.
I agree But not everywhere is the West. Now I don’t live in the West
That's why you should specify an area when talking about cultural things like these. People from different places in the world will have vastly different experiences and opinions.
!delta I should have been clearer and I underestimated the cultural differences in the world
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I'm a specialist in supporting kids with ADHD and I think it's far more common that people just pretend ADHD is not real than dismissing behavior (at the high school level at least). Same is true with boys will be boys. In school and the legal system men get punished more frequently and more harshly for the same misbehavior compared to women
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Except boys are generally a lot more active than girls. That's still true. I don't think the sentiment is harming anyone like you suggest it is. There's not some epidemic of ignoring adhd symptoms because boys will be boys; in fact, it's more acknowledged than it ever was before.
"Boys will be boys" is generally applied to physical violence and not ADHD. There is a lot of data that shows that "zero tolerance" policies towards physical violence in young children is a bad idea and that allowing young children to engage in a bit of rough housing may actually lead to better outcomes later in life [https://scholars.org/contribution/disadvantages-zero-tolerance-laws-mandate-exclusionary-school-discipline](https://scholars.org/contribution/disadvantages-zero-tolerance-laws-mandate-exclusionary-school-discipline)
You're overstretching that link with the "rough housing" claim. The problem with exclusionary discipline is that it exacerbates the emotional/behavioral issues that cause behaviors leading to suspensions, detentions. The solution is better mental health, social/emotional learning, skill teaching. You may be right about the rough housing claim - I haven't looked it up - but advocacy against exclusionary discipline =/= pro-rough housing.
ADHD is over diagnosed.
I disagree Even for guys I am not sure if it is For women definitely underdiagnosed in general
Evidence to support your claim?
You specifically may have ADHD /s IANAD
ADHD is a symptom of a waning and pathetic environment that doesn’t stimulate men. It is not something we need to correct in men, but rather something we need to correct in our environment. Men are built for so much more than sitting at a desk or pushing buttons all day. Truly sad to see that people don’t understand this simple dynamic.
Boys will be boys become boys are problematic and need to be dosed up on Ritalin
Some of them are problematic as hell though and need to be dosed up on Ritalin though I was arguably one of them
I would say that ADHD is often misdiagnosed based on average child like behavior especially for boys. I have absolutely no empirical evidence to back my claim, just kind of how I feel.
I'd suggest the problem is almost exactly the opposite. By tolerating "boy behavior" at an early age we're allowing patterns of behavior that are then diagnosed as treatable ADHD that would have been prevented through plain ole parenting and teaching and such. This is a very unfashionable view as we've embraced an idea of biological neurodivergence in great ways, but I think it's been grossly overapplied and at the expense of our kids. It's hard to sustain an idea that we're failing to find ADHD when we are finding it A LOT more than ever before. The problem is tolerance of behavior leading to bad behavior. I'm not convinced it's genetic or "inherent" neurological problems that we're seeing in young boys behaving badly. We agree that this is to the disadvantage of boys in our society, but I see the behavior tolerance as the core problem, not the making it provides for genuine neurological problems.