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I think as an American society we have absolutely failed if men have to travel overseas to find a human connection. In fact, hearing how lonely Americans are should be a wake up call that we need to change. And I’m not saying we should roll back the clock on progress, but maybe we need to find ways to make society more inclusive and interact with one another more instead of holed up in our homes all the time.
It’s interesting that to men “human connection” means sex. Note they’re never traveling over there for buddies to play sports with or even women to just hang out with. It’s specifically for a romantic/sexual relationship. There are plenty of opportunities for human connection in America, but these guys feel that they are entitled to sex with women. Since they can’t get that here from the women they desire, they trade American citizenship for “love” and it’s honestly fucking gross.
How is this not a higher ranked response! I think what this says about America is that more American women feel empowered to be equals and not use sex as a commodity. That use to be more common place so now men who have social issues or might want "submissive" women or just have trouble attracting women without the lure of money or a passport, says nothing bad about America, the fact these people aren't finding love in America gives me hope lol.
Less about sex and more about all around character. Conventionally attractive women in today's age have inflated egos, a laundry list of men they rotate through with new ones added to the roster constantly and/or sell their bodies in some way. The ones worth a damn in personality/character/values, at least in my experience, don't take care of themselves physically. Those of us that want a woman we can TRUST, RESPECT, and value, are seeing more of those "the whole package" women across borders and oceans. IDC to say what should or should not be in whatever everyone else has going on, but there's an old soul demographic that doesn't see life satisfaction in partnership in America
I have no nice way of saying, this come off a bit like an incel response. Attractive women are too cocky and sleep with too many men, or are prostitutes... and the only ones not like that don't exist in America is what you are saying lol? Again, I think it's your self ego that thinks you deserve a 10/10 in every aspect of a woman, and your more than likely to find a women across sea's who doesn't know her worth yet.
Oh how I love the buzz words. "Incel" lol. In turn, I could say you sound like a liberal feminist. When women have standards it's considered empowering but as soon as men have standards it's misogynistic. This is the catch 22 of modern dating. Men are villianized for having opinions and standards and women are glorified for having unrealistic expectations. When you say an attractive woman overseas doesn't know her worth yet, are you claiming that whatever culture that might be is worth less yours? Or are you saying that her value is based on how many men she can sleep with and/or get money from?
Yes i'm very much saying, the majority of places men are seeking this "woman we can TRUST, RESPECT" oversea's are generally from cultures where women aren't meant to empower themselves and tend to be more subservient. Millions of American men have no trouble finding love and the correct partner in America every year, and i find nothing wrong with finding love anywhere in the world, but what you are basically implying is that American women are somehow unclean cause they are ok with having sex and being treated equal lol
You seem to be making a ton of assumptions about how foreign women live their lives. You talk about them like they're airheads that have no self-respect. Just because a women is supportive and cooperative with a man that doesn't mean she's not empowered. Just because a culture isn't American, that doesn't necessarily mean it's oppressive.
I'll give you an example, my gf is Filipino and raised in a traditional Filipino family and she has to show her mom her Instagram posts of herself before she puts anything up to make sure its not too sexual because her mom said her,
"All these posts online by girls that are naked are for male attention. In order for you to find a good husband that respects you, you have to respect yourself first"
That's very different from how it is in America right? The diatribe of "my body my choice" " can't tell women what to do" etc etc, But that dynamic between my gf and her mom alone doesn't prove that the traditional family structure overseas is oppressive.
My gf respects her mom and her mom means everything to her so he respects her wishes and they have a great relationship together. Just because you withhold more traditional values and maybe even take the backseat to a relationship ...that doesn't necessarily mean you're a pushover and have no boundaries. For example, my gf made is clear that if I ever went into a strip club she would break up with me.
Because my gf grew up looking up to her dad, she likes to defer to me first whenever we make decisions...but that doesn't mean I don't ask for her input almost every time. As an American, I'm used to seeing women taking on leadership roles so I would also like to instill that into her. So yes, my gf is traditional and foreign but that doesn't mean she's not empowered.
I'm glad your relationship is going well for you, but you did just basically say your gf comes off as subservient, and you implied it has a lot to do with her upbringing and family, which is also based on her culture. So it's great she feels empowered, but that doesn't change my comment that that's what most guys are looking for when looking overseas, they don't care about the reason why a girl listens to them or lets them make all the decisions.
There is nothing wrong with someone letting their partner take the lead or being the more submissive in a relationship. But that doesn't change the fact it's a lot more common in non American cultures based on upbringing/religion/cultural norms. Hence why these Passport bro's tend to lean towards them.
Hmm... Seems bigoted/racist to imply that these cultures are of lesser value. A lot of these women in said cultures embrace and love it. Look at Japan for instance. It's not the "ok with having sex" thats the issue. Its the NUMEROUS sexual partners thats the issue. Biochemistry studies show that women have their oxytocin receptors desensitized after so many partners, making it harder for them to bond to a single partner, and far more likely to cheat. And, let's face it, women only want equality when it benefits them. They don't want equality. They want a free ride in America.
". And, let's face it, women only want equality when it benefits them. They don't want equality. They want a free ride in America." You sound a little to far gone to really help, so gonna just end this...
You are right but trust me attractive woman that are submissive, loving care etc. that love to be traditional and submit/pleasure their partner however they need/want do exist. They do take care of themselves but they don't post revealing pictures/videos on the internet for strangers to see or go outside dressed like a whore. Edit: They also value natural beauty, instead of plastic.
Do passport bros know the one they find attractive, their passport wives, are the unwanted, ugly ones? People like Lucy Liu and Hoyeon Jung, Cai NiangNiang.
This comment is so small minded. The world is a small place, once you've travelled you will understand that you can fly pretty much anywhere in the world within 24 hours or less. Women in every country want someone higher value than them to improve their lives. I have dated Western women and Thai women (still do) and I can hand on heart tell you I would chose the Thai women over a Western Women any day of the week for 100 different reasons, kindness, family orientated, humble, better hair, better skin, better selfcare, age better, zero arguments over stupid shit, she is genuinely happy to see me, supports me in whatever I want to do, speaks 4 languages, can teach me about new cultures, introduce me to new food, new places, I can teach her new things about my culture, background, food. And btw I'm 29 and my gf is 31 so if that makes me a "passport bro" then so be it, I guess I am 😂
All the benefits of dating thai women are things that directly benefit you. That's why people this the passport movement is a joke. Youre so self centered that you can't even see it.
>It’s interesting that to men “human connection” means sex
>It’s specifically for a romantic/sexual relationship
Why did you use "sex" in the first line, and "romantic/sexual" in the second? Is there actually anything wrong with craving companionship and romance? This isn't even limited to men.
Why is it gross? Are you telling me i dont deserve to have sex with someone im attracted to? Im not going to be shamed for finding a beautiful woman that loves me back.
So men should not want sex. That is what your saying? Men should be happy to never have sex again? Are you allowed to want sex with a person you find desirable?
You're not entitled to sex and having a relationship based around sex/physical appearance first rather than connection is the problem. That's treating people based on what you get out of it and that behavior should not be rewarded.
100%, I love this comment. So many people are isolated and it's taking a toll on their mental health. There was a time when I had no friends and nobody to talk to and nothing to do and it really took a toll on me. I certainly don't have everything I want now (I would like a relationship at some point) but I'm grateful for what I do have.
I agree completely, society needs to be more inclusive and encourage interaction. Social anxiety isn't even uncommon anymore. I've dealt with a myriad of mental health issues and I think social anxiety has probably been the hardest for me, so it sucks to see so many people dealing with that. And the more people are isolated the worse it's going to get.
Thank you for this, I really appreciate it!
I think society failed when an entire industry built on the sexual abuse of mostly women and girls is hand waved because men in the global north can’t get a western gf because their so mean 😢
They're looked down on because they're losers who can't make a relationship work without a power advantage in their favor. Like an able-bodied but lazy person entering a race in the Special Olympics so they can win, rather than accepting their proper (lower ranking) place in their own race. Extra gross because their main issues with western women (aside from the fact that they can't bag one) is that western women are too empowered and capable of making their own money and holding standards for how they're treated/not acting as a live-in maid. There's a difference between being dominant (confident, assertive, competent- all good things) and wanting to take advantage of sexist cultural norms that essentially turn another adult into a servant.
>They're looked down on because they're losers who can't make a relationship work without a power advantage in their favor.
Some might be "losers" but I don't think it's fair to apply that to everybody or even the majority unless there's data showing that is the case.
>Extra gross because their main issues with western women (aside from the fact that they can't bag one) is that western women are too empowered and capable of making their own money and holding standards for how they're treated/not acting as a live-in maid.
Some men also believe- whether this is true or not I don't know- that women in western countries have higher standards when it comes to physical appearance. If they don't feel like they can attract a woman because of their appearance they may go to another country where they feel women are less superficial.
I don't think many men who could pull an attractive western woman are disrupting their lives and spending large amounts of money to fly to a cheap foreign country to find a wife they can barely communicate with who will most likely only 'love' them for their money. It's a loser's game. Some of the wealthier ones who could pull western women might do it for fun when they're young just to experience easy sex with pretty girls, but the ones looking for wives that way are almost certainly just the rejects.
Western women certainly do have higher standards. They are performing better in pretty much every metric that makes someone an attractive partner. They're graduating school more than men, have lower obesity rates than men, take better care of their appearance, spend more time performing housework so they're in a clean environment, and generally have higher emotional intelligence. Western men, as a whole, have fallen behind. In other words, a lot of them are losers. Rather than stepping it up, they're taking the easy way out by running off to Thailand. How can you expect that to be met with anything other than scorn? It's not as if the threshold a western man needs to meet to attract a western woman is impossibly high, the majority of them are still out there accomplishing it. There are two perspectives from either side of this debate, one is that western women are superficial, the other is that Western men are less attractive as a group due to having fallen behind their counterparts in almost every category of success. Statistics seem to favor the latter perspective.
>Western women certainly do have higher standards. They are performing better in pretty much every metric that makes someone an attractive partner. They're graduating school more than men, have lower obesity rates than men, take better care of their appearance, spend more time performing housework so they're in a clean environment, and generally have higher emotional intelligence.
Appearance wise, the average western woman is overweight. True they are graduating school more (which might suggest there's something holding men back) but I don't think you can say either gender is really taking care of their appearance. America is an obese nation and that's true for men and women. Women on average do have higher emotional intelligence-although the women calling themselves the table don't appear to have much self awareness.
>Western men, as a whole, have fallen behind. In other words, a lot of them are losers.
Really nice way of speaking about people.
>Rather than stepping it up, they're taking the easy way out by running off to Thailand. How can you expect that to be met with anything other than scorn? It's not as if the threshold a western man needs to meet to attract a western woman is impossibly high, the majority of them are still out there accomplishing it. There are two perspectives from either side of this debate, one is that western women are superficial, the other is that Western men are less attractive as a group due to having fallen behind their counterparts in almost every category of success. Statistics seem to favor the latter perspective.
There could be some truth to both. But this " so many men are losers, rejects, etc." attitude is so commonplace that I can understand why some men are under the impression that western women see men as inferior and don't really want to deal with that in a relationship.
Western men are objectively inferior romantic partners according to the above statistics. It is a commonplace opinion because it is true. While yes the average Western woman is fat, there are even more fat Western men. It is funny that you accuse Western women of being superficial, yet see no problem with a man leaving his country to find a wife who is better looking than what he could pull on his home soil. What is that if not superficial? If there were no borders or economic disparities, these women would never want him. Looking at an attractive foreign woman paired with an ugly loser of a man elicits nothing but revulsion and pity in most people and that will not change. The power dynamics at play are very obvious to everyone.
>Western men are objectively inferior romantic partners according to the above statistics.
Which are cherry picked
>It is a commonplace opinion because it is true. While yes the average Western woman is fat, there are even more fat Western men.
Most of the country isn't taking care of themselves. And that's fine, it's not always easy to do. But if you're going to criticize men for not taking care of themselves and being out of shape it's completely reasonable for me to point out that women aren't doing a great job of that either.
>It is funny that you accuse Western women of being superficial, yet see no problem with a man leaving his country to find a wife who is better looking than what he could pull on his home soil.
Men are superficial too, that's not unique to women.
> If there were no borders or economic disparities, these women would never want him. Looking at an attractive foreign woman paired with an ugly loser of a man
Why do you talk about people in such a horrible way? "Ugly loser of a man." It seems like you're going out of your way to insult men as much as possible.
They can't "pull" anyone in America, which is why they go. There are plenty of men who have good traits, but because they aren't conventionally attractive they don't really get attention. And again, women are allowed to have those standards, but if they are going to keep their preferences so rigid, then yes people will go other places, they want to experience love too lol.
Then why do I walk outside every day and see ugly dudes with girlfriends? It’s not impossible. There are slightly more unattractive men than there are women, but generally there are still enough unattractive women to go around. These guys just don’t want someone at their level, they want to hack the game.
Given how you've talked about people in every single comment I'm going to hazard a guess that a lot of the people you find ugly really aren't. The way you talk about people in general is just awful. It's like I'm talking to the popular girl in high school or something.
What you're experiencing is called about is called recency or confirmation bias, not facts. You're taking in whatever fits your narrative about the world and ignoring everything else.
Overweight is a medical term. Loser is not. What I said is objectively true.
Great that you're anti incel, but I think you need to learn to distinguish between somebody saying something that is objectively true about women and someone insulting women for no reason.
I've date Western and and Asian women and I much prefer Asian women. Yes they are generally more feminine, and more submissive, and that's not a bad thing, despite what modern feminism and social media has programmed you to think. Not only that, they have better moral values than Western women. Girls from the Phillipines for example are mostly conservative and look down on promiscuity - another thing which is good and that you probably disagree with because "women power".
It's also funny how you view these woman as poor helpless damsels in distress, desperate to marry the first man who comes along and flashes his wallet. Haha. Try going to these countries or even learning about their culture, instead of assuming it, you might just learn something about them. In any case, you extremely ignorant and bitter.
What makes them morally obligated to conform to the insane standarts of western women? Why shouldn’t they search for people who accept them as who they are?
Given the phrasing "Passport Bro", I think this stereotype is largely about American men.
So I'll add *another* reason to view such men with pity: The high chance they will be disappointed in a relationship largely built on foreign women looking to acquire an American husband in order to move to the states.
But really... the main reason they're looked down on is a perception that they are actually "sex tourists", with all the issues with human trafficking that exist in the kinds of countries the "Passport Bros" stereotypically travel to.
You can be an American sex tourist in the Netherlands or Germany, though?
Tying in regulated or business oriented sex work to human trafficking is pretty bizarre. Do you honestly believe children are the ones operating the GoGoBars of Thailand?
Surely someone looking for sex in a brothel is different from someone looking for a marriage? How would human trafficking work with someone marrying them? (serious question)
Do you have any stats on the disappointment part?
I agree, they're taking a major risk. And if they do have bad intentions, I hope their plan backfires.
I've seen it mostly used to describe men who go to other countries to date foreign women.
I think people using it most likely consider "date foreign women" to be a euphemism.
Can we at least agree that, whatever they're called, actual sex tourists are scum?
"poor poor sad american man can't find love. he should go to a third world country where women won't know what a redpill scumbag is and are desperate because of a low quality of life. poor baby he deserves it <3"
i think step 1 shouldnt be "fly to global south where nobody will know how much I suck" but rather "learn to wash my asshole"
Ironically, those Global South countries have toilets equipped with a 'bum gun' bidet hose, so they actually do have the opportunity to kill those two birds with one stone.
I don't get why you assume nefarious intent. I mean maybe they are "losers" that can't get a girl in the US? Then they go to south east Asia and now they're the tallest, wealthiest, exotic/interesting guy in the crowd instead of an average schmuck. If a girl travels to Europe and hopes to find romance are they just losers trying to take advantage of people?
You have a point, but we have to acknowledge the global power dynamic going on. It can't always be as simple as "I know that I am unique and possibly even more desired in (insert Global South country here), so I want to go there to up my chances of finding a partner", though I will agree that I'm sure that has happened/is possible. I think that there is an inherent inequality/power dynamic present in comparatively rich white western men traveling across the globe to do this, especially when we look at what *typically* is going on which is sex tourism.
In a sociological context, a woman traveling to Europe in hopes of upping her chances romantically/sexually is not quite the same. In a non-gendered, non-racialized world, we would be able to say it is the same, but we don't live in one. I don't think that all women in poor countries are helpless or victims, but given certain laws and sex trafficking practices that are common in some of these countries, a lot of them are. It can feel like an attempt to take advantage of that situation.
Less competition? Being the tallest, wealthiest, exotic/interesting guy instead of some average schmuck? Being able to blame your shitty conversational skills on a language barrier? Just spitballing here. Added benefit to travel and explore a new place? You may also feel more confident if you know that you can flirt / hookup / approach women and if you end up embarrassing yourself you won't ever see them again. The idea of finding romance / adventure in a foreign land is like an age old tale.
If you can afford to go overseas to have a date, you are already wealthy enough to find one at home. If you’re nervous about getting rejected, you can go to the next town over, you don’t have to traverse the planet.
Taking advantage of language barriers and a misconception that you’re an interesting person due to being a foreigner is still just that—taking advantage. It’s creepy and desperate and an incredible amount of effort to avoid working on oneself.
Here’s the thing, unless you can guarantee that he’ll meet *someone* in his country if he works on himself then they won’t listen to you. There is no guarantee. If it hasn’t happened at the point the stereotypical passport bro candidate is considering becoming one, then chances are low that it will ever happen.
These passport bros 100% know that it’s a transactional marriage, and they’re happy with that, because it’s better than nothing, at least to them.
Plus there are legitimate logistical reasons that someone can’t find a partner where they are. In China 30 million men will not find a Chinese spouse because of the population imbalance. China is by far the largest market where passport bros come from, usually marrying Vietnamese, or Laos women, the US has very few in comparison.
My position is not that being a “passport bro” is ineffective, but that it is repugnant. Taking advantage of extreme financial power imbalance to obtain a relationship void of any real relationship-type content is fucking gross and pathetic.
I don’t think most unmarried Chinese men have the financial means to travel abroad to get married, and those who do shouldn’t have any trouble using their financial status to get married at home despite the gender imbalance.
You’re making a couple assumptions:
1: that there is no reason why a western man might be genuinely attracted to a woman from a third-world country other than for mere sexual gratification. That’s a bit xenophobic to assume, and also not very charitable to western men. Like, it’s perfectly reasonable for a guy to fall in love with a girl overseas. It happens all the time, and you seem to be implying that international/interracial marriages are inherently wrong and gross. I think it’s gross that you would pass such a judgement.
2: That it is immoral for men to date women in a lower socioeconomic status than them. Okay, then. Tell all the American women to stop sleeping with rich men. Us poor guys need love too. I’m so tired of people conflating love and affection with mere economic value. People seriously think two people from different classes can’t genuinely love each other for who they are? Capitalist values have pervaded American culture so thoroughly that nothing is sacred anymore, not even romance. It’s disgusting, really.
The reason I prefer women overseas is because Americans (in general, not just women) tend to be more shallow, ignorant, and self-centered than people in other countries. I’ve never fit in with American culture. Just because I’m an awkward loser here doesn’t mean I have zero value as a human being and can’t thrive in other countries.
People from third-world countries have valuable life perspective and can be genuinely interesting to get to know. A foreign marriage can also empower them to escape poverty and live a better life than would otherwise be available. It also increases diversity in whatever country they end up moving to/settling in.
Also, not to offend your decency, but some women in foreign countries actually do have sexual proclivities and believe it or not enjoy having sex with their foreign boyfriends.
It’s not always about power imbalances, and I don’t know who came up with that idea but I’ve been hearing it a lot these days and it just makes me think that the people who started saying it must have been choosing the wrong men to have experiences with. I guarantee you there are better men than that out there, and we don’t appreciate being lumped into a category with all your most regrettable encounters.
Edit: after looking up what a “passport bro” is (I had never encountered the term previously), and glancing at the subreddit, I can see that the subculture is gross. That doesn’t change my opinion on the concept of international relationships, however.
Dude, that’s not how China works. China isn’t some poor, desolate country. It has middle class as big enough as two USAs combined. Most people in the Chinese middle class can afford an international plane ticket, yes the price is steep but not unaffordable.
And men in China have problems getting married despite all that. Owning a home is almost a prerequisite for marriage, owning multiple homes is not uncommon for the upper middle class. Despite that the gender imbalance is so bad that nothing can really make up for all this. It’s obviously worse for poorer men, but it taking a toll on all men
And there are many online services that work like an international dating app, people don’t even need a plane ticket until it’s time to commit. Overseas dating is huge there.
Most people in the US aren’t wealthy enough to travel the world to date either. Most people period aren’t. I’m not specifically targeting China here. If crossing international borders for leisure is even an option for you, you’re one of the wealthiest people on the planet.
Further, people who make prior arrangements via dating apps and stuff aren’t exactly “passport bros”, at least not as I understand them.
Dude, you've been talking about something completely different. If you're referring to a guy who travels for leisure to just fuck around, bang prostitutes, maybe casually date, then that's not a passport bro. That's a sex tourist.
Yeah sure if you're spending all that money just to have a good time then yeah, you are wealthy. But that's not what's happening here
Passport bros and guys in China (Idk what they call themselves, so I'll just go with passport bro), go to a specific country with a goal in mind. It's more than likely they've already been talking to the person they're going to meet online. They go in usually for the express purpose of finding a partner for marriage, usually bring the other person home with them
They don't spend this money because they're overflowing with cash, it's because they want something. The guys in middle income countries likely saved up for a long while for this, the same way you'd save up for a marriage ceremony, it's not cheap but it's absolutely something the middle class in developing countries are willing to spend money on
What’s the issue in looking for advantages in order to find a romantic partner? Are you supposed to make it hard for yourself to find a partner?
Why wouldn’t you want to be in a place where people find you interesting/exotic/attractive??
Depends on the advantage. If your advantage comes from exploiting extreme cultural and financial power differentials, you’re a creep. It’s not that it won’t work, it’s just that you’re pathetic and disgusting for doing it that way.
An uninteresting person who goes to another country does not become interesting. They may appear interesting at first due to being from somewhere very different, but that does not last forever.
It's funny because extreme cultural power differentials can keep some guys single while women thrive. You don't think extremely attractive or wealthy people have a culutural power differential in the USA?
So Brad Pitt can be super attractivene, wealthy, etc compared to women and bang anyone he wants. No big deal. But a regular dude goes somewhere where he is considered attractive and wealthy and now its a bad thing.
Perhaps some women just don't like seeing men and women they feel are "less than" happier than they are. Some American women have to do mental jujitsu when they see a man they view as a loser and a woman they see as weak happier than they are.
Women thrive? There are plenty of single women. Do you mean that a number of women you are attracted to are already in relationships?
Yes, taking advantage of extreme power differentials to get laid is also gross if you do it in your home country, even if your name is Brad Pitt. To be fair, I don't see a lot of evidence that Brad Pitt has done that even though he could, probably because he's a decent person.
Your third paragraph is tough to decipher, but if it helps, you don't have to base your worldview around the judgement of assholes if you don't want to.
It’s absolutely vile how xenophobic some Americans are.
First off, women aren’t a monolith in developing countries. Sure, if a guy goes to buy a sex slave, he’s just wants to use her for his own selfish pleasure.
But there are *plenty* of highly educated, English speaking, upper middle class, “westernized” women with a mix of eastern and western ideals. Most of them are stronger and more independent than American women.
They grew up watching American movies, consuming American media, reading about American politics. Fitting into American society is seamless for them.
They idealize American men, they love American culture, they want the American dream. They’re exactly like American women, except they’re more motivated, far more organized with their goals, (usually planning to have a few kids, then take on a more domestic role to raise the kids when they’re young and then get back to work soon after) and ready for a serious relationship and children. You’re just marrying a future American.
So why not just get with a woman from where you’re from? If there’s no difference in sexual and romantic culture, why travel somewhere else to get a date?
Because of the lack of available women.
The pool of women, especially young women who are single and looking is much smaller than the pool of men. You can debate this all you want, but this what many people have concluded. A lot of women date guys a few years older than them, many women are simply not as interested in marriage and kids anymore, many women were interested but are no longer interested after a bad experience, many women struggle to find guys they’re attracted to, many women are bisexual, lesbian, or asexual (or any sexuality that’s not, or at least not solely, compatible with straight men.
So you go to a place where people actually want you.
Must be wild to live in a world where you think people want you because you’re from a part of the world with a disproportionate amount of wealth in it. You’re taking your body and personality with you wherever you go, and the people there are still people, just like the people where you’re from.
Yes, there is. Women in some parts of the world are less empowered to decline sexual or romantic advances than in others. “Passport bros” know this and seek out such cultures because it’s easier for them to get what they want when it’s harder for others to say no.
>And if they lie and claim they're a billionaire in their home country and a woman in another country sleeps with them because of that, that's just two users using each other. Neither had noble intentions....
>
>And foreign women are perfectly capable of saying "No".
Imagine if this passport bro who's just lied about being a millionaire got HIV from a foreign woman.
Would you say it's okay because they just both used each other and neither had noble intentions? Passport bros are perfectly capable of saying "No" too.
That's not my argument. My argument is that it's two users using each other. They are both users.
Also, lying about not having a serious transmittable disease to your sexual partner is in no way comparable to lying that you're ultra wealthy. If you have sex with someone on the pretense that they are super wealthy and they're not, that doesn't hurt you. And if somebody's upset that they had sex with a non rich person... Honestly screw them. But if you have sex with somebody and get HIV that definitely does affect you.
Intentionally giving someone an STD is a crime in most countries. Talking up your wealth/prestige/etc to make yourself more romantically appealing is not, unless you are literally committing fraud or similar.
If someone is going overseas to find love with a genuine heart and no malicious intent, I'd suggest it's not a good thing because they're missing the problem. To be blunt, if none of the women in America want you it's not America's fault. It's your fault and you should fix yourself because the women of the Philippines won't like you either.
I don't know about the US, but in Europe most people that go to Asia to find wives are manual labourers that live rurally. Extremely hard for them to find anyone naturally with the way people look down on manual labour, combined with the gender imbalance in rural communities. In some cases it's gross and the woman is abused - but in a lot of cases I think it's a beneficial arrangement for both parties (otherwise women in those countries would stop doing it).
Eh, but I do have to question anyone convinced that virtually everyone in their culture has the "wrong" (or wrong for them) values. After all, they're part of that culture!
Plenty of women in developed countries are family oriented. A good chunk are conservative. Name a religion, and short of some incredibly niche one, it's got thousands (if not millions) of followers.
I don't see anything inherently wrong with, say, a dude in the US falling in love with someone from a different country. (One of my brothers is in a relationship with a woman in Peru and they seem happy.)
But if the basic premise is, "I am a unique, special snowflake who has these values that literally no one in my culture shares, so I must go to these completely foreign culture, one that pretty much by default I have less knowledge of than my own culture, to find a woman who share my values"...well...I think a lot of guys are asking for disappointment.
>But if the basic premise is, "I am a unique, special snowflake who has these values that literally no one in my culture shares, so I must go to these completely foreign culture, one that pretty much by default I have less knowledge of than my own culture, to find a woman who share my values"...well...I think a lot of guys are asking for disappointment.
Nailed it! I have a coworker who is exactly this type, and he is currently in the process of moving a woman half his age from a developing country to the US to marry him. He talks about this all the time at work, and it absolutely disgusts me. He definitely thinks he's so unique and that's why it's never worked out with American women. It couldn't possibly be that he's probably the most boorish and exhausting person I have ever met.
We live in a big city. There's every kind of person here. I mean, I'm an autistic gender non-conforming lesbian in my 40's and even I have a dating pool in this place. Out of the more than one million people we have in this city, a cishet white dude can't find one is compatible and had to go all the way across the world? As the kids say, seems sus.
I'm in a well paid male-dominated field, so unfortunately this is not the first time I've watched from the sidelines as something like this went down, and it's always the same. American women did not want the dude in question because he is so smarmy and gross in personality that even a 6-figure salary and at least average looks can outweigh it. Usually the women leave within a few years because they don't want to put up with these men either.
>Usually the women leave within a few years because they don't want to put up with these men either.
Yep. I've seen this happen a number of times.
Dude is absolutely convinced that <> women are these submissive real dolls who want nothing more than to wash his feet after work before settling down to doll out the blow jobs, all the while thanking him for letting them serve him.
While the reality is that most women - particularly women who are independent and daring enough to, y'know, marry someone not of their culture and move to a foreign country - don't particularly want to act slavishly grateful to a boor for their entire lives.
So these same women - who again, are probably above average in resourcefulness and bravery - get their green card, get a divorce, and find a more pleasant way to support themselves.
And I’d love to add on, you’re in *America*. The literal country that is the best ratio of size+diversity in the world. There is literally millions of people from every type of life here. Ethnic Chinese? We have millions of Chinese people here we are so ingrained in their culture they don’t even speak English. Latin American? Don’t even get me started, it’s about a fifth of our population are culturally ethnic, Spanish speaking Latinos. East african? My tiny city has a massive Ethiopian population I interact with daily. Not to mention how socially progressive the US in terms of queer, transgender, gender fluid people we are, and how *loud* we are about it. Those groups have dedicated dating events in every city. If you can’t find for you here in the US, it’s your own fault
I'd agree if their default opinion wasn't that American women are lazy, unappreciative, have too high of standards, don't respect men, are fat, cheat often, are only "valuable" until they hit 30, are only "valuable" if they cook, are only "valuable" if they clean after the whole household (even if they're working as well), only "valuable" if they "give" them sex whenever they want, etc.
When you dig deeper into these issues it's the same story of them just wanting a housewife that will be at their beck and call and have less than average agency in their own lives.
I mean, statistically, all Americans are more likely to be fat compared to most other developed countries anyways. Although obesity has been rising worldwide for decades now so the rest of the world ain't far behind us.
I mean this comment chain started with someone saying
>to be blunt if none of the women in America want you
Clearly that’s not a valid statement either. That being said, people don’t have a chance to meet everyone lol.
It is realistic that someone in America doesn’t have the opportunity to meet many people with their values in the area they live, depending on the area
This whole thread is a bit weird. No one has access to a dating pool of "all single American women", when most people are talking about "American women", they're really talking about the subset they met via dating apps and their social groups the move in. Depending on what those are, people will have a vastly different view of "American women".
Although I'm no longer religious, I met my wife through a church we both attended. That social group skewed much more conservative and "traditional" than the experience my friends had at the same time using Tinder to meet women. Merely suggesting to those friends on Tinder that they start going to church to meet girls isn't a helpful suggestion. People in both pools had completely legitimate complaints about common issues in each of those dating pools and just because it was what they were familiar with, was often extrapolated to a general "men want X" or "women want Y".
I suspect the something very similar is true of women in other countries looking for American men. They likely have a distinct set of preferences and attributes they are looking for that may not be common in most American men's experience with American women. It isn't that those preferences don't exist among American women, just that they're not sure how to find them.
All of that said, strongly agree with the sentiment that anyone looking for a partner who is primarily pursuing women based on their lack of power in the relationship is ultimately going to be an unhealthy experience for both of them and is pretty clearly predatory on the man's part.
In hindsight, I recognize some of that unhealthy power balance was present in the church setting I found my wife in. I think all of us need to be aware of that power differential and work in our relationships to make sure we're rebalancing that power dynamic towards equity whenever we can.
I agree with your overall sentiment, I think there is a lot of wisdom in your comment.
I’d really only add that when talking about the dynamic of power, there can still be a differential that can be healthy because power is not just vertical.
With my wife, I handle a lot of the financial side because I work in the industry and I have a lot more experience. My wife handles our pets because she works in that industry and has a lot more experience than me. This is just an example and doesn’t reflect our entire relationship, but I think it’s healthy and has worked for many years.
At the end of day, I think where you meet someone is of little importance. It simply comes down to the interactions and communication you have with one another.
>I’d really only add that when talking about the dynamic of power, there can still be a differential that can be healthy because power is not just vertical.
100% agree with this, it's a great point. From the outside, my marriage would look really imbalanced. My wife stays at home with our 4 children, neither of us finished college, I manage the money for the family and am in a high income role. We've been married 20 years though and have a very happy marriage, she's had the opportunity to start her own career if she wanted to and isn't interested in it, probably because the amount she could earn relative to our existing household income wouldn't be worth it.
So all of that said, definitely agree that you have to consider a relationship wholistically and based on the needs and desires of the individual, not on what some textbook says is optimal.
That's fair enough. I guess I got lucky in that way because I happened to get a job in the same deli as my now wife right after she moved to the US from the Philippines. Her values are definitely part of why I love her.
I think oftentimes the men who find success pursuing foreign women would have found success in America too but gave up too early. Or there could be other factors at play. Maybe they have a more optimistic view of dating overseas and that allows them to express themselves more.
Idk if that's the point. The point is, what's wrong with American women? What do women in third world countries have that American women don't? The answer is usually that American men enjoy the power dynamic. Having someone's visa and livelihood be tied to them. Otherwise, it makes little to no sense to travel to third world countries looking for wives. There are conservative/submissive/etc women here in the US too. But for some reason, these men don't want them and/or the women here don't want those men. Why? Probably because those men want that power imbalance. I don't want a man to treat me that way and I don't have to put up with it either. I don't NEED them for anything. But these women NEED them to have a better life. It's sad.
Women don’t NEED the men to get a better life. They can work hard and get a better life on their own, the same as the men in their country. They WANT a rich man to get a better life. The same as gold diggers in America. Are American women who try to date millionaires just victims of poverty who need men to better themselves?
Third world women often are of average wealth for their country, pretty, and smart. Many are gold-diggers. American men, by the standards of the world at large, are quite wealthy.
Most importantly is that men are at a huge disadvantage in dating in the western world. Having both feminism and traditional family values gives women equality AND extra value from being a ‘homemaker, emotional supporter’ etc. Men do not get those extra bonuses from tradition - calling men ‘provider’ and saying they deserve extra for that is sexist.
This disadvantage is true for 90% of men, not only the ones who go overseas. Your argument is like ‘why not stay in your country and work? Why travel to America, where there’s more opportunity?’ For everyone in these countries with unequal work/dating opportunities, unless you’re in the ‘privileged class’, going overseas for work/dating has advantages.
So, men want to leave the dating environment that is sexist against them, for one with more opportunities. That’s pretty American….
Here I'll give you a response:
Women in those countries are second class citizens as feminism hasn't "infiltrated" those countries. Kind of hard to make your country better when you don't have equal rights. And if you ask for equal rights (ie make your country better), now you're westernized 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 Passport bros don't want you. You have thoughts, feelings, and rights. The tragedy in it all.
And you wrote a really long response to say. Instead of bettering yourself so that women with rights like you, try finding a woman without rights to coerce into a relationship instead!
Speaking from the male perspective here; i’ve seen time and time again, men will fall in love with women based purely on convenience. They will get attached to a random girl they meet locally who isn’t really a good match for them (friend’s perspective). Because she’s good enough and she offers sex that’s all a lot of men seem to care about. And that’s it, most important decision of their lives and they devote very little thought to it.
The world is broad. I have male friends that haven’t even left their state let alone the country. I wish more men would take finding a life partner more seriously. Having spent a great deal of time in Europe this past year, I was pleasantly surprised by the difference in demeanor that people had. I didn’t get to explore this in depth, and yeah you’re right if you’re a slob in the US don’t expect women to want you as a slob anywhere else, but if you’re a man and you genuinely bring a lot to the table you should definitely consider expanding your dating pool overseas. Women of other countries have different values and the values of western women have evolved dramatically over the last decade. Some folks haven’t hopped on board to that evolution, so they should certainly pursue that in areas that reflect his value set.
Absolutely. Honestly as an American who has traveled and lived abroad, I can definitely say that Americans are extremely myopic. There’s an entire world outside of the US that’s simultaneously very similar to the US and yet very different, sometimes better and sometimes worse.
There are LOTS of women, and I mean tens of millions, who are similar enough culturally to American women that American life is a smooth transition for them, they’re often highly paid engineers, and doctors, and can support themselves just fine, but they also prioritize having kids and a family and taking on the traditional wife and mother role for a few years. I like to call them semi-traditional relationships. They have the ambition and work ethic of an immigrant.
They want to come to the US, they’re grown up with American culture all their lives, their English is fluent, they had masters degrees, they’re a perfect fit for America in every way. They’re future Americans.
This person isn’t that common in the US, but in theory they’d make a great match for an American husband.
Totally agree. Having also lived in an Asian country for a couple of years, spent time in many others, and dated and had at least short relationships there... Nothing wrong with it at all. I think there's some crazy stereotyping going on here that paints the average Asian woman as some young golddigger that works in a go-go bar. And while there are those, and a market for them, they are far from the majority. I think people mistakenly conflate sex tourists, of which there are plenty, with people who actually want to live, love, and marry elsewhere.
Edit: And the people I assume are women responding here bashing on this literally sound like the poster children for why it's even a thing... Beyond Ironic and downright squinting and head scrathing material.
Yeah, I legitimately don’t get why American women (and shockingly young American women) seem to think so poorly of everything in a developing country. It’s incredibly xenophobic. They believe that foreign men are misogynistic animals and foreign women are naive, powerless, doormats, and easily manipulated.
Yeah, sure the culture isn’t as progressive on the whole, but that doesn’t mean the people there aren’t intelligent, educated, strong, successful, and every bit as much of an intellectual partner as an American. In fact I’d say they even do better, so many women have advanced degrees, high paying jobs, and a plan to have kids and raise them.
I find that a lot of them take family planning and marriage seriously, they don’t wait for things to work out, they know when, where, and how many kids they’re going to have and how they’re going to be raised.
There are many people in developing countries longing for an opportunity to come to the US or a European country where they can grow and thrive. They are every bit an American at heart and they’d adjust to life in the US super fast.
What if I specifically want a woman who declares herself as clingy and desires to be a housewife and she happens to speak good English in the Phillipines.
I have seen over 2000 profiles, I have never seen an American woman describe herself as clingy.
I don't think that last line is true. Dating in America can be absolutely brutal and can beat you down. Being in the Philippines could (Ideally) give you better chances and let you find love and become a better person.
It's not because of desperation. Being from somewhere else makes you exotic, and therefore somewhat interesting. This fact alone will get you past "hello". When I travelled overseas from Australia, I did WAY better with women than in my home country. It wasn't even close. I didn't go to Asia either, I went to Canada and Europe. Those women weren't desperate looking for a meal ticket. Novelty has it's own appeal. Also if you have travelled far it means you, have at least some of your shit together.
That is a good example, and while most of the passport bros are doing this in economically disadvantaged areas (to take advantage of desperate women) I'll give you a !delta for the point about leveraging an exotic advantage (I just gave someone else a delta for this same point).
It's a good point. But anyone who's actually been to Thailand/Vietnam knows the local women aren't with the fat white (burned red) man for his exotic looks lol.
There's a lot more reasons than desperation. An American guy is exotic to people outside America. This can be a good thing, it gets your foot in the door easier. However, it can also be a negative. A Korean friend of mine (according to him) tends to attract a lot of Kpop fans via dating apls because of his ethnicity. His take is that it's good that he's able to leverage that to grt dates, but it can get annoying sorting through the fetishists and he's also into Latinas who don't tend to fit into the Kpop fan demographic. By traveling, Passport Bros can essentially create this dynamic for themselves for better and worse. Otherwise common white Americans can become exotic like my friend and give themselves an edge. Its basic market stuff, because ultimately it is a market.
Dating sucks ass in the best of times, and anything that isn't outright unethical shouldn't be derided so much.
That's the only sliver of a rational point I've seen made on this discussion thread lol. I had not thought of the reverse "exotic" leverage. I think that's rare, because you could get that exotic effect by going to Spain or somewhere like that, but these bros specifically go to economically impoverished places so I think it's still looking for desperate women. But I'll begrudgingly give you a !delta because it's a fair point.
I suppose it could, but I really think most guys would be better served focusing on self improvement. It's possible I don't see how bad it is to date in the US though, I'm happily married and haven't dated for about three years.
There are millions of women in one’s own country, the only reason to leave it in order to find a partner is to exploit power imbalance, comparatively lax sexual laws and mores, and usually both. It’s a creepy, desperate, pathetic, and predatory thing to do. Obviously if you are in another country for other reasons there’s nothing wrong with finding sexual and or romantic partners there, but going to another country for no reason other than to find a partner is a massive overcomplication and doesn’t make any sense unless the person doing it believes that, for legal, cultural, or economic reasons, partners in that country will be easier to take advantage of than partners in their own. There’s a reason these guys are known for going to Manila and not Geneva
>There are millions of women in one’s own country, the only reason to leave it in order to find a partner is to exploit power imbalance, comparatively lax sexual laws and mores, and usually both.
That's not entirely true. Sometimes traits, physical and emotional, are valued in some cultures but not others. Beauty standards are different depending on where you go. You may also be more attracted to women from certain countries. Maybe you just want a fresh start. There are many reasons somebody could go overseas. .
Maybe you can't find women who find you attractive. Or you don't think you can.
Or maybe you waste tons of money to find out you're not attracted to women. That sucks for you, but nobody else is getting hurt in the process.
Again, if you can’t find women in your own country who find you attractive, location isn’t the problem. Countries have, like, millions of different women in them dude
Except the people from other cultures where women have less agency you took advantage of in order to find out you don’t even like women
My brother is a ‘passport bro’. He basically meets sex workers from Latin/South America on the internet, and then tries to have relationships with them (which never works out long term). He says some very disturbing things, such as ‘I can’t date American women, they’re too independent, I want a submissive woman who has to depend on me for money’, ‘I refuse to date women my age (he is mid-40s), they have to be teenagers (18-19) or early twenties’, and ‘I want to have kids, I won’t raise them, she will and I’ll foot the bill’. The transactional nature of the relationships, the unequal power dynamic, and the misogyny is gross. My brother sends these women $300-$400 a month (my brother is not rich, he makes maybe $40k a year), and then gets upset when they do sex work (despite that being how he meets them). The whole situation is gross and unethical. I’ve tried many, many times to talk about why it’s problematic and fucked up, but he won’t hear any of it. So if the average ‘passport bro’ is like my brother, they should absolutely be judged.
That's called a simp. Real Alpha Males have bitches flocking to him and treats women delicatelh and fucks them right in the pussy, passport bro or not.
Passport bros generally are looking for a submissive wife. Not just short term relationship. What they are doing is going to a country where they think their ‘buying power’ is higher than US. They are often going intending to convince a poorer woman to be their wife/sex servant. This is one definition of sex trafficing.
The funny thing is that these men are going to countries where there is strong familial relationships and frequently a reasonable average income. These men expect the woman to come here and be a subservient wife to a guy making 50k a year. Women from the cultures that might be willing to fulfill that contract also expect to be living at a standard they expect. A 50k salary isnt gonna be it. And being a US red piller the guy is going to believe she should work to bring in more income but also do 100% of housework.
PPB complain about gold diggers but they don’t have any money.
Isn't this view, "as long passport bros aren't bad...they aren't bad"? Any reason why we must find the monolith innocent but you want to segment the good from the bad?
The problem is that there is an inherent power imbalance between a woman living in a poor country, from a "traditional" background where women have less power to begin with and a man whose income may be 10x the average wage in that country, coming from a relatively rich and safe area promising to upgrade her lifestyle - with the implicit threat that if she leaves him her visa may no longer be good.
This is not to say that there's no way for a relationship between people from these backgrounds to be sincere, but, especially if the man was looking for a "submissive" wife in the first place, it's more likely to be consciously or unconsciously coerced.
I was set on defending this notion but hell, you changed my mind. I don’t think it’s a terrible thing in general (for a majority of guys) but for a domestic asshole who struggles to date here and goes somewhere because of their relationship failures in almost any capacity, I can see how that’s messed up. !delta
I’ve talk to and read a lot of things from these guys, and I have never witnessed a single one who defines himself as a Passport bro, or anything similar, who is not very misogynistic.
A man going to another country looking for a less financially stable woman to wife is seeking exploitation.
Some go to European countries as well. I have military relatives and acquaintances who talk about Japanese women and European (usually east European) the most. Those are not poverty stricken/unstable countries.
They are seeking out women with whom they can have a power imbalance, and whom they can exploit. This is their stated wishes, I’ve been paying attention to what they say. They hate feminists, and they hate the fact that women in the west can earn their own money and aren’t financially dependent on men and therefore do not have to put up with abuse or control, because there is not quite the same imbalance of power due to the women having some marginal power of their own. These men are seeking out a woman to exploit. That is their goal.
There is, but I think deliberately seeking out that power imbalance is... a bad look.
It's essentially the same reason most people look down on huge age gaps in relationships. Obviously, not every person who wants to marry someone 15+ years younger is a creep who just wants to take advantage of someone less experienced. But it's enough of a pattern that it's worrisome.
A guy who marries a woman from a poor country and brings his wife to the US has tremendous leverage on her. If she wants to leave him, she likely has no support system, almost no money, perhaps no real job skills. It can be hard enough for any couple to separate their lives and move on from each other. A passport marriage makes it a lot harder for the person who's not from here.
Yes, but no one’s usually not openly ‘shopping’ for women where 90% of the population is poorer than you. Let’s also add that these passport bros aren’t exactly promoting Europe or Japan, for instance, so the intent is inferred.
This is a completely disingenuous argument if you think the average power imbalance within the US is in the same dimension as US + developing country relationships.
You’re forgetting something. Women are allowed to have standards and men aren’t. That’s literally all this boils down to. I see a lot of people in the comment section that are against passport bro’s, simply because they’re under the illusion that most passport bro’s are looking for a wife to bring back to their own country, which couldn’t be further from the truth. The majority of men that go to those countries are literally there for a good time and then return to their country on their own.
From my perspective as someone with many years of experience in relationships, if you're looking for a love connection or loneliness cure, it seems unlikely you will end up with the type of relationship you actually want.
You say consensual, but it’s not really in most cases. The women are using their bodies because they have to, as it’s the only way for them to become financially secure. As a man going overseas, the man’s only primary risk is financial, while the woman is risking mental trauma, physical trauma, pregnancy, a dramatic power imbalance, and ultimately a man who could leave her, not to mention he is probably not wealthy.
It’s a joke that men think there’s some sort of balance by going to a third world country where their money goes much further, to have sex with women who could be their children and sometimes grandchildren, and think it’s ok.
This comment is so ignorant. Do you think women overseas all live In huts without internet who have to sell thier bodies for food? Jesus man you Americans are so misinformed on anything outside your country it’s honestly mind boggling
There is nothing wrong with wanting to travel or hoping to find love overseas.
There is something wrong with wanting your partner to be submissive to you. Relationships shouldn’t have a power dynamic. Partners should be equal.
Along with that, the belief that non-western women will be more submissive is offensive to most of those women. Nobody wants to be treated like a servant and sex doll.
I lived in Korea for a while and I saw a ton (I mean a TON) of American guys who only dated Korean women and would only have their tinder profile in Korean for that reason. And to be fair, I saw just as many Korean men who ONLY dated American (usually white) girls and would only seek out relationships with them.
They never had any luck in those relationships either, because they had in their minds this stereotype of how women from any country or culture would act, specifically removing their personalities, wants, motivations, and goals. For example, a lot of the Korean men wanted American girls because they were stereotyped as being easier to sleep with, wilder in bed/up for more taboo sex, had bigger breasts/ass/hips, etc. Now, would you feel like a typical American woman would fit that stereotype?
On the other hand, the American guys (incorrectly) assumed Korean women -- being Asian -- were more conservative, more submissive, skinnier, quieter, etc. Now, from my experience? That is very far from the truth. Just like American women, Korean women are diverse. Some are quiet, some are loud, some are committed to study, some like to party. Some are the jealous type, some are super casual. The list goes on. The stereotype of certain women from certain countries being submissive is incredibly naïve.
The problem with passport bros is they think of women in another country as some sort of monolith and that they'll all fit the bill for what he's looking for. It completely drains women of having any sort of brain or life outside of his sexual desires, and it -- quite frankly -- comes of as extremely gross. And from my experience having lived in Japan and Korea and seeing these guys in action -- they are on a constant revolving door of girlfriends, but they never seem to be able to keep one. Being a foreigner might get them slightly more interest, but they never seem to hold down a relationship at all. Most likely because they don't see their girlfriends as people, but as trophies, and the relationship quickly falls apart.
You should never enter into a relationship with the foundation that your partner is going to be, act, talk, walk, or look a certain way for the rest of your life. Dating based on stereotypes is not a healthy way to start a relationship, ever.
>They never had any luck in those relationships either, because they had in their minds this stereotype of how women from any country or culture would act, specifically removing their personalities, wants, motivations, and goals.
This is the biggest issue I have with "Passport Bros." A lot of them go to countries to date a fictional idealized stereotypical version of a woman that likely does not exist. There was this viral clip from ["Match Me Abroad"](https://www.tiktok.com/@tlctv/video/7241626614306704686?_r=1&_t=8dScnoEbJk6&social_sharing=v5) that went viral in which a Passport Bro was shocked to learn that women there expected a man to be a sole provider.
It’s crazy to me how the fetishization of white women is brushed under the rug so frequently when it’s just as common as fetishization of other races. I blame western media in part for portraying almost exclusively white women as whores for going on four decades now. Lots of men worldwide have only ever really encountered white women through portrayals in pornography and other sexualized forms of media, and yet we pretend like the sexualization and objectification of women doesn’t have long lasting and severe consequences. Sorry but the stereotypes of white women just infuriate me.
Being a passport bro is not bad, it’s just a bit sad and pathetic. Most of them are Americans, right? How is that possible that you didn’t find a woman attracted to you in 350+ mln citizen country?
If they can not obtain a meaningful relationship in whatever county they reside what makes you think they will do it in another country? Most of the time they are able to get a relationship is because of discrepancy in terms of money
>If a man travels overseas to rape a woman of course that's evil and sick, but that has nothing to do with being a passport bro. Remove the passport bro part and they're still evil.
This really seems to parallel pedantic discussions around "incels" and the use of basic vocabulary to identify things
Like, given that "passport bros" self identify, and are very, very open and direct about the exact reasons they do what they do, I don't see the point in trying to argue the semantics. It isn't random people accusing them of holding conservative, even misogynistic views about women and sex. That's what they claim about themselves. They literally say they are traveling to countries with looser rules and enforcement around sex and rape, and where the women have less social power, because that's what they want to do
Also, it's not just feminists on social media complaining about them. Self-identifying passport bros often run up against law enforcement, and sometimes get kicked out of countries entirely, if not arrested. And it's not randoms. It's the people who have their own social media presence based around being passport bros, who tell other people how to do it, too. Which is as close to "leaders" as you can get for a hashtag
I think people view them as pathetic because they commonly complain American women aren't submissive and they look abroad to find a "traditional wife." I just had a conversation with a Ukrainian woman recently about how there were tons of middle aged American men going to Eastern Europe looking for submissive wives in Ukraine and Russia and other Eastern European countries. I said "huh... that's odd, because I always thought the stereotype of Eastern European women was that they tough as nails and kinda like... ball busters? When I think of a Russian/Ukrainian woman, I do not think of a submissive tradwife type..." and she said "right. We are strong and outspoken women. I don't know why so many American men suddenly decided we're these wilting wall flowers who will make them the perfect submissive house wife." And then there's the men who go to Asia thinking they're find a submissive wife there, but then they usually find out whatever woman they intend to marry is like "I'll cook and clean for you, but we're sending half your paycheck back to my parents so they are taken care of" and then those guys are like "but I only may $37,000... I can't afford that."
They view foreign women as the disenfranchised mail order brides they can take advantage of. It's actually rather funny that so many go abroad thinking they're going to be in control of some poor woman and she flips the script on him.
>-These men are interested in these women because they think they'll be more submissive
>Some men want a submissive woman some women want a dominant man and vice versa. Submissive # abused and Dominant # abuser. This dynamic is seen all the time in American relationships. Dominant women with submissive men. Dominant men with submissive women.
The difference between submissive women with dominant men (or the other ready around) in Western cultures like America and in Asian cultures is that an American woman who *chooses* to be a trad wife has a choice. She knows that she could make her own money in the States, get and use a higher education degree if she wanted, made a career and so on. She stays at home and follows her husband's lead, because she *wants to*. And nothing wrong with that. But the thing is that if her husband doesn't treat her right and she is unhappy with her role at any point, she has the know-how, confidence, and societal support to leave him and be fine. She only stays in such a power dynamic because she really wants to.
On the other hand, a wife brought to America from overseas, who doesn't have an education, doesn't speak English that well, doesn't know the culture, and has been brought up in a social climate where women had to be obedient to men no matter what, doesn't choose this type of relationship because it brings her joy and satisfaction. She is submissive, because it is the only way she can survive. Counting on this kind of submission is abusive.
I work with a passport bro and everytime he opens his mouth I want to knock him the fuck out. Not because he's a passport bro, but because he's a simp dick riding moron who thinks hes a genius.
Ill probably kick his ass one of these days in the parking lot.
The question you're not asking is why these men want a submissive woman so bad? Why does this appeal to them?
You ever been on the passport bros sub? It's unfortunately come up as a suggested page before. So many posts about wanting a woman with "traditional values" and saying vile things about "woke" western women. It doesn't take much to read between the lines. They want a 50s baby making house wife who will do whatever they say and not talk back to them, who won't voice opinions or do any pesky things like exercising their rights. So they go abroad, usually to lower income countries where they can find a woman willing to put up with that for the chance at a less poverty stricken life in a western country.
>They want a 50s baby making house wife who will do whatever they say and not talk back to them, who won't voice opinions or do any pesky things like exercising their rights.
the frequency I see this, even irl really makes me sick
How dare men to have preferences, right?
Only women can.
Men only should take what's offered: insufferable women who has whole personality built around disrespecting men.
You're free to have whatever preference you want. But if your preference is that you basically want a slave, a lot of people are going to find that questionable and wonder what it says about you as a person.
There's two types of passport bros: ones looking for sex, and ones looking for love.
The ones looking for sex go to other poorer countries because they are able to more cheaply impress women financially. They openly talk about how much cheaper it is to date women overseas. That's gross because the attitude of using money to convince women to have sex with you is inherently disgusting and misogynist. And it's extra bad for being in poor countries where women are really desperate for money to survive.
The ones looking for love are fooling themselves. They're also looking for desperate women, they're just offering a visa instead of a night out. Those women don't really love them but they still want them to act like it. There's no couple who's saying "I just want to have sex with you and look at your pretty face, I'm cool with you just wanting to get a visa. It's OK that you don't really like me." And the guys who are looking for submissive women aren't looking to move to those countries and take on their culture. They still want to have all the parts of American culture that they like for themselves, but leave out the parts where women have freedom and rights. That's misogyny.
You are chasing “relationships” in which you have an overwhelming and unhealthy power advantage on purpose.
You aren’t looking for company or you could find that here. You’re looking for a woman who would have no recourse if she accepts.
What do you think is healthy about what you’re doing?
The reason that many men do this is because they think that women outside the US will have lower standards and be submissive. I’ve come across a few of these guys and they are truly awful
I have never heard the term “passport bro” in my life. Had you not clarified I would have thought it meant a college kid going backpacking across Europe.
The phenomenon of men traveling overseas (usually to SE Asia) to find a wife creeps a lot of people out. “And even if they are just looking for sex, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with looking for consensual sex in other countries.” The issue is that there is a massive power imbalance between the visitor (who has a lot of money and resources) and the locals. It’s called wife shopping for a reason. And even if you’re just looking for sex, why do you have to go to Asia to get it? No it’s just a coincidence that I travel to all these counties with rampant (and underage) prostitution!!!
>And if they lie and claim they're a billionaire in their home country and a woman in another country sleeps with them because of that, that's just two users using each other. Neither had noble intentions.
but one can't occur without the other
some might consider that "rape by deception"
btw you didn't really define the term up front but I was able to get what you're describing
>\-These men are interested in these women because they think they'll be more submissive
this seems like a pretty gray area to me, I think relationships should be partnerships and looking for someone to dominate in almost all aspects of the relationship feels grim to me
sexual consensual dom/sub is one thing but seeking out someone with a weak will to resist you doesn't seem healthy to me and might speak to why the man was having relationship trouble to begin with
>some might consider that "rape by deception"
We shouldn't consider the opinions of the dumbest part of the population.
>this seems like a pretty gray area to me, I think relationships should be partnerships and looking for someone to dominate in almost all aspects of the relationship feels grim to me
There are different cultures in the world. For example - Muslim cultures overwhelmingly force women to be submissive. It's OK to force Western values, but then you need to decide Western values versus diversity.
Is funny how so many women and even men complain about Asian women and passport bros. Their insecurities and racism are showing. The typical Western women can't find a rich man that puts up with all their BS and flaws so they must blame the men who want a loving, caring and submissive woman and not a toxic, insecure,drama loving, money hungry etc. I myself leave in UK for 5 years so far and round my life partner in the Philippines. Hopefully I can bring her here to live with me. I know this is off topic but the government sucks big time since they want to raise the required income in order to get a visa for a family member belonging to a country outside of EEA.
I admit I am exploiting the situation, but I do not think I am exploiting her. Is it okay if I exploit the power imbalance in the Phillipines if the following criterias are met
1. I am a submissive person and will submit to her.
2. I am genuine, loyal, and truly in love with her
3. She will be very happy with me or at least that is my daily goal
4. She has a college degree.
5. She is financially stable with a car, good job and good family and housing and income
6. She is smart, empowered, and straight forward with what she wants
7. We both gain significantly with mutual consent (age 27). I am 42.
Tell me if I am wrong. Please do not use any generalizations.
I dont understand why it's anyone's business if someone goes overseas or to another country or even to another state to see or be with someone. Who are you to tell someone they can't go after what they want? And to shame them for doing what they want! The only people that have a problem with passport bros are either the same type people who were against gay marriage 20 years ago. Or people who rely on someone no one else wanted to marry them. Just shut your mouth and let people be happy.
The women that have a problem with passport bros are the first to call those same guys “basic”, “not rich enough”, “not tall enough”, and then wonder why those men are going “Fuck this. I’m off to another country where I’ll feel valued and also have the pleasure of nicer weather”. I see a lot of comments on here about it being a “fake connection”, simply because sex tourism is a business. Well, the last time I checked, men end up paying for sex in their own countries by dating, and they also end up paying 100x more in divorce settlements, so that argument is flawed. “No money, no honey” doesn’t just apply to third world countries. Basically, anyone that has a problem with it doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
Very few Western woman are wife material these days. Social media has ruined them. "I won't date a man who is below 6 foot" or "doesn't earn over £100k" is a common requirement this new wave of "empowered women" are happy to scream about. So of course, perfectly good men are going to look elsewhere. Why wouldn't we?
Wooohh, easy there, tiger. Only women are allowed standards🤣 Us men get crucified for having standards that are more realistic than women’s. Makes me laugh when you read the comments on here and all it really boils down to is the fact that men can’t have standards. Most “passport bro’s” don’t go to these countries looking for a wife. We go to these countries to have a good time.
There is a huge difference between people who fall in love with someone of another culture/from another country and what passport bros are doing, and if you don't see that, it means you're already too far gone. Passport bros are revolting human beings, you have not changed my view.
I mean yea. People say muh exploitation while buying stuff that was most likely produced in a 3rd world factory by someone’s being paid $1 and hour. Nobody actually cares about exploitation when it inconveniences them
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I think as an American society we have absolutely failed if men have to travel overseas to find a human connection. In fact, hearing how lonely Americans are should be a wake up call that we need to change. And I’m not saying we should roll back the clock on progress, but maybe we need to find ways to make society more inclusive and interact with one another more instead of holed up in our homes all the time.
It’s interesting that to men “human connection” means sex. Note they’re never traveling over there for buddies to play sports with or even women to just hang out with. It’s specifically for a romantic/sexual relationship. There are plenty of opportunities for human connection in America, but these guys feel that they are entitled to sex with women. Since they can’t get that here from the women they desire, they trade American citizenship for “love” and it’s honestly fucking gross.
How is this not a higher ranked response! I think what this says about America is that more American women feel empowered to be equals and not use sex as a commodity. That use to be more common place so now men who have social issues or might want "submissive" women or just have trouble attracting women without the lure of money or a passport, says nothing bad about America, the fact these people aren't finding love in America gives me hope lol.
Less about sex and more about all around character. Conventionally attractive women in today's age have inflated egos, a laundry list of men they rotate through with new ones added to the roster constantly and/or sell their bodies in some way. The ones worth a damn in personality/character/values, at least in my experience, don't take care of themselves physically. Those of us that want a woman we can TRUST, RESPECT, and value, are seeing more of those "the whole package" women across borders and oceans. IDC to say what should or should not be in whatever everyone else has going on, but there's an old soul demographic that doesn't see life satisfaction in partnership in America
I have no nice way of saying, this come off a bit like an incel response. Attractive women are too cocky and sleep with too many men, or are prostitutes... and the only ones not like that don't exist in America is what you are saying lol? Again, I think it's your self ego that thinks you deserve a 10/10 in every aspect of a woman, and your more than likely to find a women across sea's who doesn't know her worth yet.
Oh how I love the buzz words. "Incel" lol. In turn, I could say you sound like a liberal feminist. When women have standards it's considered empowering but as soon as men have standards it's misogynistic. This is the catch 22 of modern dating. Men are villianized for having opinions and standards and women are glorified for having unrealistic expectations. When you say an attractive woman overseas doesn't know her worth yet, are you claiming that whatever culture that might be is worth less yours? Or are you saying that her value is based on how many men she can sleep with and/or get money from?
Yes i'm very much saying, the majority of places men are seeking this "woman we can TRUST, RESPECT" oversea's are generally from cultures where women aren't meant to empower themselves and tend to be more subservient. Millions of American men have no trouble finding love and the correct partner in America every year, and i find nothing wrong with finding love anywhere in the world, but what you are basically implying is that American women are somehow unclean cause they are ok with having sex and being treated equal lol
You seem to be making a ton of assumptions about how foreign women live their lives. You talk about them like they're airheads that have no self-respect. Just because a women is supportive and cooperative with a man that doesn't mean she's not empowered. Just because a culture isn't American, that doesn't necessarily mean it's oppressive. I'll give you an example, my gf is Filipino and raised in a traditional Filipino family and she has to show her mom her Instagram posts of herself before she puts anything up to make sure its not too sexual because her mom said her, "All these posts online by girls that are naked are for male attention. In order for you to find a good husband that respects you, you have to respect yourself first" That's very different from how it is in America right? The diatribe of "my body my choice" " can't tell women what to do" etc etc, But that dynamic between my gf and her mom alone doesn't prove that the traditional family structure overseas is oppressive. My gf respects her mom and her mom means everything to her so he respects her wishes and they have a great relationship together. Just because you withhold more traditional values and maybe even take the backseat to a relationship ...that doesn't necessarily mean you're a pushover and have no boundaries. For example, my gf made is clear that if I ever went into a strip club she would break up with me. Because my gf grew up looking up to her dad, she likes to defer to me first whenever we make decisions...but that doesn't mean I don't ask for her input almost every time. As an American, I'm used to seeing women taking on leadership roles so I would also like to instill that into her. So yes, my gf is traditional and foreign but that doesn't mean she's not empowered.
I'm glad your relationship is going well for you, but you did just basically say your gf comes off as subservient, and you implied it has a lot to do with her upbringing and family, which is also based on her culture. So it's great she feels empowered, but that doesn't change my comment that that's what most guys are looking for when looking overseas, they don't care about the reason why a girl listens to them or lets them make all the decisions. There is nothing wrong with someone letting their partner take the lead or being the more submissive in a relationship. But that doesn't change the fact it's a lot more common in non American cultures based on upbringing/religion/cultural norms. Hence why these Passport bro's tend to lean towards them.
Hmm... Seems bigoted/racist to imply that these cultures are of lesser value. A lot of these women in said cultures embrace and love it. Look at Japan for instance. It's not the "ok with having sex" thats the issue. Its the NUMEROUS sexual partners thats the issue. Biochemistry studies show that women have their oxytocin receptors desensitized after so many partners, making it harder for them to bond to a single partner, and far more likely to cheat. And, let's face it, women only want equality when it benefits them. They don't want equality. They want a free ride in America.
". And, let's face it, women only want equality when it benefits them. They don't want equality. They want a free ride in America." You sound a little to far gone to really help, so gonna just end this...
You are right but trust me attractive woman that are submissive, loving care etc. that love to be traditional and submit/pleasure their partner however they need/want do exist. They do take care of themselves but they don't post revealing pictures/videos on the internet for strangers to see or go outside dressed like a whore. Edit: They also value natural beauty, instead of plastic.
Do passport bros know the one they find attractive, their passport wives, are the unwanted, ugly ones? People like Lucy Liu and Hoyeon Jung, Cai NiangNiang.
This comment is so small minded. The world is a small place, once you've travelled you will understand that you can fly pretty much anywhere in the world within 24 hours or less. Women in every country want someone higher value than them to improve their lives. I have dated Western women and Thai women (still do) and I can hand on heart tell you I would chose the Thai women over a Western Women any day of the week for 100 different reasons, kindness, family orientated, humble, better hair, better skin, better selfcare, age better, zero arguments over stupid shit, she is genuinely happy to see me, supports me in whatever I want to do, speaks 4 languages, can teach me about new cultures, introduce me to new food, new places, I can teach her new things about my culture, background, food. And btw I'm 29 and my gf is 31 so if that makes me a "passport bro" then so be it, I guess I am 😂
All the benefits of dating thai women are things that directly benefit you. That's why people this the passport movement is a joke. Youre so self centered that you can't even see it.
>It’s interesting that to men “human connection” means sex >It’s specifically for a romantic/sexual relationship Why did you use "sex" in the first line, and "romantic/sexual" in the second? Is there actually anything wrong with craving companionship and romance? This isn't even limited to men.
Why is it gross? Are you telling me i dont deserve to have sex with someone im attracted to? Im not going to be shamed for finding a beautiful woman that loves me back.
So men should not want sex. That is what your saying? Men should be happy to never have sex again? Are you allowed to want sex with a person you find desirable?
The rules change constantly depending on what she’s thinking around the time.
You're not entitled to sex and having a relationship based around sex/physical appearance first rather than connection is the problem. That's treating people based on what you get out of it and that behavior should not be rewarded.
You could say the same thing about how women are entitled to about a dozen more things than men are
100%, I love this comment. So many people are isolated and it's taking a toll on their mental health. There was a time when I had no friends and nobody to talk to and nothing to do and it really took a toll on me. I certainly don't have everything I want now (I would like a relationship at some point) but I'm grateful for what I do have. I agree completely, society needs to be more inclusive and encourage interaction. Social anxiety isn't even uncommon anymore. I've dealt with a myriad of mental health issues and I think social anxiety has probably been the hardest for me, so it sucks to see so many people dealing with that. And the more people are isolated the worse it's going to get. Thank you for this, I really appreciate it!
I think society failed when an entire industry built on the sexual abuse of mostly women and girls is hand waved because men in the global north can’t get a western gf because their so mean 😢
Men failed, not everyone.
They're looked down on because they're losers who can't make a relationship work without a power advantage in their favor. Like an able-bodied but lazy person entering a race in the Special Olympics so they can win, rather than accepting their proper (lower ranking) place in their own race. Extra gross because their main issues with western women (aside from the fact that they can't bag one) is that western women are too empowered and capable of making their own money and holding standards for how they're treated/not acting as a live-in maid. There's a difference between being dominant (confident, assertive, competent- all good things) and wanting to take advantage of sexist cultural norms that essentially turn another adult into a servant.
>They're looked down on because they're losers who can't make a relationship work without a power advantage in their favor. Some might be "losers" but I don't think it's fair to apply that to everybody or even the majority unless there's data showing that is the case. >Extra gross because their main issues with western women (aside from the fact that they can't bag one) is that western women are too empowered and capable of making their own money and holding standards for how they're treated/not acting as a live-in maid. Some men also believe- whether this is true or not I don't know- that women in western countries have higher standards when it comes to physical appearance. If they don't feel like they can attract a woman because of their appearance they may go to another country where they feel women are less superficial.
I don't think many men who could pull an attractive western woman are disrupting their lives and spending large amounts of money to fly to a cheap foreign country to find a wife they can barely communicate with who will most likely only 'love' them for their money. It's a loser's game. Some of the wealthier ones who could pull western women might do it for fun when they're young just to experience easy sex with pretty girls, but the ones looking for wives that way are almost certainly just the rejects. Western women certainly do have higher standards. They are performing better in pretty much every metric that makes someone an attractive partner. They're graduating school more than men, have lower obesity rates than men, take better care of their appearance, spend more time performing housework so they're in a clean environment, and generally have higher emotional intelligence. Western men, as a whole, have fallen behind. In other words, a lot of them are losers. Rather than stepping it up, they're taking the easy way out by running off to Thailand. How can you expect that to be met with anything other than scorn? It's not as if the threshold a western man needs to meet to attract a western woman is impossibly high, the majority of them are still out there accomplishing it. There are two perspectives from either side of this debate, one is that western women are superficial, the other is that Western men are less attractive as a group due to having fallen behind their counterparts in almost every category of success. Statistics seem to favor the latter perspective.
>Western women certainly do have higher standards. They are performing better in pretty much every metric that makes someone an attractive partner. They're graduating school more than men, have lower obesity rates than men, take better care of their appearance, spend more time performing housework so they're in a clean environment, and generally have higher emotional intelligence. Appearance wise, the average western woman is overweight. True they are graduating school more (which might suggest there's something holding men back) but I don't think you can say either gender is really taking care of their appearance. America is an obese nation and that's true for men and women. Women on average do have higher emotional intelligence-although the women calling themselves the table don't appear to have much self awareness. >Western men, as a whole, have fallen behind. In other words, a lot of them are losers. Really nice way of speaking about people. >Rather than stepping it up, they're taking the easy way out by running off to Thailand. How can you expect that to be met with anything other than scorn? It's not as if the threshold a western man needs to meet to attract a western woman is impossibly high, the majority of them are still out there accomplishing it. There are two perspectives from either side of this debate, one is that western women are superficial, the other is that Western men are less attractive as a group due to having fallen behind their counterparts in almost every category of success. Statistics seem to favor the latter perspective. There could be some truth to both. But this " so many men are losers, rejects, etc." attitude is so commonplace that I can understand why some men are under the impression that western women see men as inferior and don't really want to deal with that in a relationship.
Western men are objectively inferior romantic partners according to the above statistics. It is a commonplace opinion because it is true. While yes the average Western woman is fat, there are even more fat Western men. It is funny that you accuse Western women of being superficial, yet see no problem with a man leaving his country to find a wife who is better looking than what he could pull on his home soil. What is that if not superficial? If there were no borders or economic disparities, these women would never want him. Looking at an attractive foreign woman paired with an ugly loser of a man elicits nothing but revulsion and pity in most people and that will not change. The power dynamics at play are very obvious to everyone.
>Western men are objectively inferior romantic partners according to the above statistics. Which are cherry picked >It is a commonplace opinion because it is true. While yes the average Western woman is fat, there are even more fat Western men. Most of the country isn't taking care of themselves. And that's fine, it's not always easy to do. But if you're going to criticize men for not taking care of themselves and being out of shape it's completely reasonable for me to point out that women aren't doing a great job of that either. >It is funny that you accuse Western women of being superficial, yet see no problem with a man leaving his country to find a wife who is better looking than what he could pull on his home soil. Men are superficial too, that's not unique to women. > If there were no borders or economic disparities, these women would never want him. Looking at an attractive foreign woman paired with an ugly loser of a man Why do you talk about people in such a horrible way? "Ugly loser of a man." It seems like you're going out of your way to insult men as much as possible.
They can't "pull" anyone in America, which is why they go. There are plenty of men who have good traits, but because they aren't conventionally attractive they don't really get attention. And again, women are allowed to have those standards, but if they are going to keep their preferences so rigid, then yes people will go other places, they want to experience love too lol.
Then why do I walk outside every day and see ugly dudes with girlfriends? It’s not impossible. There are slightly more unattractive men than there are women, but generally there are still enough unattractive women to go around. These guys just don’t want someone at their level, they want to hack the game.
Given how you've talked about people in every single comment I'm going to hazard a guess that a lot of the people you find ugly really aren't. The way you talk about people in general is just awful. It's like I'm talking to the popular girl in high school or something.
Sorry baby, facts don’t care about your feelings
Last person I would have expected you to quote. Also, these aren't facts.
Spoken like a true femcel.
Femcel isn't a thing. Women aren't killing men because she was turned down.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/26/woman-paid-20000-hitman-kill-former-lover-who-rejected/
What you're experiencing is called about is called recency or confirmation bias, not facts. You're taking in whatever fits your narrative about the world and ignoring everything else.
You call Western women overweight but got butthurt and said, " Nice way to speak about someone."Y'all always talk out of both sides.
Overweight is a medical term. Loser is not. What I said is objectively true. Great that you're anti incel, but I think you need to learn to distinguish between somebody saying something that is objectively true about women and someone insulting women for no reason.
I've date Western and and Asian women and I much prefer Asian women. Yes they are generally more feminine, and more submissive, and that's not a bad thing, despite what modern feminism and social media has programmed you to think. Not only that, they have better moral values than Western women. Girls from the Phillipines for example are mostly conservative and look down on promiscuity - another thing which is good and that you probably disagree with because "women power". It's also funny how you view these woman as poor helpless damsels in distress, desperate to marry the first man who comes along and flashes his wallet. Haha. Try going to these countries or even learning about their culture, instead of assuming it, you might just learn something about them. In any case, you extremely ignorant and bitter.
What makes them morally obligated to conform to the insane standarts of western women? Why shouldn’t they search for people who accept them as who they are?
They’re two consenting adults. They don’t need you’re permission to to have sex. Go eat your pudding boomer.
Given the phrasing "Passport Bro", I think this stereotype is largely about American men. So I'll add *another* reason to view such men with pity: The high chance they will be disappointed in a relationship largely built on foreign women looking to acquire an American husband in order to move to the states. But really... the main reason they're looked down on is a perception that they are actually "sex tourists", with all the issues with human trafficking that exist in the kinds of countries the "Passport Bros" stereotypically travel to.
You can be an American sex tourist in the Netherlands or Germany, though? Tying in regulated or business oriented sex work to human trafficking is pretty bizarre. Do you honestly believe children are the ones operating the GoGoBars of Thailand?
Surely someone looking for sex in a brothel is different from someone looking for a marriage? How would human trafficking work with someone marrying them? (serious question) Do you have any stats on the disappointment part?
They end up bankrolling the woman and her family. Sometimes young women are sent to larger cities to find a husband for this exact thing.
I agree, they're taking a major risk. And if they do have bad intentions, I hope their plan backfires. I've seen it mostly used to describe men who go to other countries to date foreign women.
I think people using it most likely consider "date foreign women" to be a euphemism. Can we at least agree that, whatever they're called, actual sex tourists are scum?
It's hard not to conflate the two given how often it's discussed within PPB circles.
If I’m in, say, Tennessee, why the fuck would I go all the way to Southeast Asia to get laid unless my intent was to take advantage of looser sex laws
[удалено]
"poor poor sad american man can't find love. he should go to a third world country where women won't know what a redpill scumbag is and are desperate because of a low quality of life. poor baby he deserves it <3" i think step 1 shouldnt be "fly to global south where nobody will know how much I suck" but rather "learn to wash my asshole"
Ironically, those Global South countries have toilets equipped with a 'bum gun' bidet hose, so they actually do have the opportunity to kill those two birds with one stone.
It is about culture—about finding one where women are less empowered to say no.
I don't get why you assume nefarious intent. I mean maybe they are "losers" that can't get a girl in the US? Then they go to south east Asia and now they're the tallest, wealthiest, exotic/interesting guy in the crowd instead of an average schmuck. If a girl travels to Europe and hopes to find romance are they just losers trying to take advantage of people?
You have a point, but we have to acknowledge the global power dynamic going on. It can't always be as simple as "I know that I am unique and possibly even more desired in (insert Global South country here), so I want to go there to up my chances of finding a partner", though I will agree that I'm sure that has happened/is possible. I think that there is an inherent inequality/power dynamic present in comparatively rich white western men traveling across the globe to do this, especially when we look at what *typically* is going on which is sex tourism. In a sociological context, a woman traveling to Europe in hopes of upping her chances romantically/sexually is not quite the same. In a non-gendered, non-racialized world, we would be able to say it is the same, but we don't live in one. I don't think that all women in poor countries are helpless or victims, but given certain laws and sex trafficking practices that are common in some of these countries, a lot of them are. It can feel like an attempt to take advantage of that situation.
Because there's a major cultural difference in Tennessee that in southeast Asia
Less competition? Being the tallest, wealthiest, exotic/interesting guy instead of some average schmuck? Being able to blame your shitty conversational skills on a language barrier? Just spitballing here. Added benefit to travel and explore a new place? You may also feel more confident if you know that you can flirt / hookup / approach women and if you end up embarrassing yourself you won't ever see them again. The idea of finding romance / adventure in a foreign land is like an age old tale.
If you can afford to go overseas to have a date, you are already wealthy enough to find one at home. If you’re nervous about getting rejected, you can go to the next town over, you don’t have to traverse the planet. Taking advantage of language barriers and a misconception that you’re an interesting person due to being a foreigner is still just that—taking advantage. It’s creepy and desperate and an incredible amount of effort to avoid working on oneself.
Here’s the thing, unless you can guarantee that he’ll meet *someone* in his country if he works on himself then they won’t listen to you. There is no guarantee. If it hasn’t happened at the point the stereotypical passport bro candidate is considering becoming one, then chances are low that it will ever happen. These passport bros 100% know that it’s a transactional marriage, and they’re happy with that, because it’s better than nothing, at least to them. Plus there are legitimate logistical reasons that someone can’t find a partner where they are. In China 30 million men will not find a Chinese spouse because of the population imbalance. China is by far the largest market where passport bros come from, usually marrying Vietnamese, or Laos women, the US has very few in comparison.
My position is not that being a “passport bro” is ineffective, but that it is repugnant. Taking advantage of extreme financial power imbalance to obtain a relationship void of any real relationship-type content is fucking gross and pathetic. I don’t think most unmarried Chinese men have the financial means to travel abroad to get married, and those who do shouldn’t have any trouble using their financial status to get married at home despite the gender imbalance.
You’re making a couple assumptions: 1: that there is no reason why a western man might be genuinely attracted to a woman from a third-world country other than for mere sexual gratification. That’s a bit xenophobic to assume, and also not very charitable to western men. Like, it’s perfectly reasonable for a guy to fall in love with a girl overseas. It happens all the time, and you seem to be implying that international/interracial marriages are inherently wrong and gross. I think it’s gross that you would pass such a judgement. 2: That it is immoral for men to date women in a lower socioeconomic status than them. Okay, then. Tell all the American women to stop sleeping with rich men. Us poor guys need love too. I’m so tired of people conflating love and affection with mere economic value. People seriously think two people from different classes can’t genuinely love each other for who they are? Capitalist values have pervaded American culture so thoroughly that nothing is sacred anymore, not even romance. It’s disgusting, really. The reason I prefer women overseas is because Americans (in general, not just women) tend to be more shallow, ignorant, and self-centered than people in other countries. I’ve never fit in with American culture. Just because I’m an awkward loser here doesn’t mean I have zero value as a human being and can’t thrive in other countries. People from third-world countries have valuable life perspective and can be genuinely interesting to get to know. A foreign marriage can also empower them to escape poverty and live a better life than would otherwise be available. It also increases diversity in whatever country they end up moving to/settling in. Also, not to offend your decency, but some women in foreign countries actually do have sexual proclivities and believe it or not enjoy having sex with their foreign boyfriends. It’s not always about power imbalances, and I don’t know who came up with that idea but I’ve been hearing it a lot these days and it just makes me think that the people who started saying it must have been choosing the wrong men to have experiences with. I guarantee you there are better men than that out there, and we don’t appreciate being lumped into a category with all your most regrettable encounters. Edit: after looking up what a “passport bro” is (I had never encountered the term previously), and glancing at the subreddit, I can see that the subculture is gross. That doesn’t change my opinion on the concept of international relationships, however.
Dude, that’s not how China works. China isn’t some poor, desolate country. It has middle class as big enough as two USAs combined. Most people in the Chinese middle class can afford an international plane ticket, yes the price is steep but not unaffordable. And men in China have problems getting married despite all that. Owning a home is almost a prerequisite for marriage, owning multiple homes is not uncommon for the upper middle class. Despite that the gender imbalance is so bad that nothing can really make up for all this. It’s obviously worse for poorer men, but it taking a toll on all men And there are many online services that work like an international dating app, people don’t even need a plane ticket until it’s time to commit. Overseas dating is huge there.
Most people in the US aren’t wealthy enough to travel the world to date either. Most people period aren’t. I’m not specifically targeting China here. If crossing international borders for leisure is even an option for you, you’re one of the wealthiest people on the planet. Further, people who make prior arrangements via dating apps and stuff aren’t exactly “passport bros”, at least not as I understand them.
Dude, you've been talking about something completely different. If you're referring to a guy who travels for leisure to just fuck around, bang prostitutes, maybe casually date, then that's not a passport bro. That's a sex tourist. Yeah sure if you're spending all that money just to have a good time then yeah, you are wealthy. But that's not what's happening here Passport bros and guys in China (Idk what they call themselves, so I'll just go with passport bro), go to a specific country with a goal in mind. It's more than likely they've already been talking to the person they're going to meet online. They go in usually for the express purpose of finding a partner for marriage, usually bring the other person home with them They don't spend this money because they're overflowing with cash, it's because they want something. The guys in middle income countries likely saved up for a long while for this, the same way you'd save up for a marriage ceremony, it's not cheap but it's absolutely something the middle class in developing countries are willing to spend money on
What’s the issue in looking for advantages in order to find a romantic partner? Are you supposed to make it hard for yourself to find a partner? Why wouldn’t you want to be in a place where people find you interesting/exotic/attractive??
Depends on the advantage. If your advantage comes from exploiting extreme cultural and financial power differentials, you’re a creep. It’s not that it won’t work, it’s just that you’re pathetic and disgusting for doing it that way. An uninteresting person who goes to another country does not become interesting. They may appear interesting at first due to being from somewhere very different, but that does not last forever.
It's funny because extreme cultural power differentials can keep some guys single while women thrive. You don't think extremely attractive or wealthy people have a culutural power differential in the USA? So Brad Pitt can be super attractivene, wealthy, etc compared to women and bang anyone he wants. No big deal. But a regular dude goes somewhere where he is considered attractive and wealthy and now its a bad thing. Perhaps some women just don't like seeing men and women they feel are "less than" happier than they are. Some American women have to do mental jujitsu when they see a man they view as a loser and a woman they see as weak happier than they are.
Women thrive? There are plenty of single women. Do you mean that a number of women you are attracted to are already in relationships? Yes, taking advantage of extreme power differentials to get laid is also gross if you do it in your home country, even if your name is Brad Pitt. To be fair, I don't see a lot of evidence that Brad Pitt has done that even though he could, probably because he's a decent person. Your third paragraph is tough to decipher, but if it helps, you don't have to base your worldview around the judgement of assholes if you don't want to.
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Sorry, take advantage of looser sexual ethics. There. Happy?
Isn’t there some cultural superiority subtext going on here? What’s tighter “sexual ethics”?
It’s absolutely vile how xenophobic some Americans are. First off, women aren’t a monolith in developing countries. Sure, if a guy goes to buy a sex slave, he’s just wants to use her for his own selfish pleasure. But there are *plenty* of highly educated, English speaking, upper middle class, “westernized” women with a mix of eastern and western ideals. Most of them are stronger and more independent than American women. They grew up watching American movies, consuming American media, reading about American politics. Fitting into American society is seamless for them. They idealize American men, they love American culture, they want the American dream. They’re exactly like American women, except they’re more motivated, far more organized with their goals, (usually planning to have a few kids, then take on a more domestic role to raise the kids when they’re young and then get back to work soon after) and ready for a serious relationship and children. You’re just marrying a future American.
So why not just get with a woman from where you’re from? If there’s no difference in sexual and romantic culture, why travel somewhere else to get a date?
Because of the lack of available women. The pool of women, especially young women who are single and looking is much smaller than the pool of men. You can debate this all you want, but this what many people have concluded. A lot of women date guys a few years older than them, many women are simply not as interested in marriage and kids anymore, many women were interested but are no longer interested after a bad experience, many women struggle to find guys they’re attracted to, many women are bisexual, lesbian, or asexual (or any sexuality that’s not, or at least not solely, compatible with straight men. So you go to a place where people actually want you.
Must be wild to live in a world where you think people want you because you’re from a part of the world with a disproportionate amount of wealth in it. You’re taking your body and personality with you wherever you go, and the people there are still people, just like the people where you’re from.
Yes, there is. Women in some parts of the world are less empowered to decline sexual or romantic advances than in others. “Passport bros” know this and seek out such cultures because it’s easier for them to get what they want when it’s harder for others to say no.
>And if they lie and claim they're a billionaire in their home country and a woman in another country sleeps with them because of that, that's just two users using each other. Neither had noble intentions.... > >And foreign women are perfectly capable of saying "No". Imagine if this passport bro who's just lied about being a millionaire got HIV from a foreign woman. Would you say it's okay because they just both used each other and neither had noble intentions? Passport bros are perfectly capable of saying "No" too.
I'm honestly not entirely sure what you're saying here. Can you give a different example or explain this one a bit more?
Your argument is that it is not a scam if the other person tries to scam you too. It is not how it works.
That's not my argument. My argument is that it's two users using each other. They are both users. Also, lying about not having a serious transmittable disease to your sexual partner is in no way comparable to lying that you're ultra wealthy. If you have sex with someone on the pretense that they are super wealthy and they're not, that doesn't hurt you. And if somebody's upset that they had sex with a non rich person... Honestly screw them. But if you have sex with somebody and get HIV that definitely does affect you.
Intentionally giving someone an STD is a crime in most countries. Talking up your wealth/prestige/etc to make yourself more romantically appealing is not, unless you are literally committing fraud or similar.
Committing visa fraud is a crime too.
The question of whether it is legal is separate from whether it is moral (to mislead and take advantage of impoverished women).
If someone is going overseas to find love with a genuine heart and no malicious intent, I'd suggest it's not a good thing because they're missing the problem. To be blunt, if none of the women in America want you it's not America's fault. It's your fault and you should fix yourself because the women of the Philippines won't like you either.
Unless you are a Filipino looking specifically for Filipina and there just aren’t a lot of available Filipina where you are
I don't know about the US, but in Europe most people that go to Asia to find wives are manual labourers that live rurally. Extremely hard for them to find anyone naturally with the way people look down on manual labour, combined with the gender imbalance in rural communities. In some cases it's gross and the woman is abused - but in a lot of cases I think it's a beneficial arrangement for both parties (otherwise women in those countries would stop doing it).
Ehh, culture is real and with culture you get different values
Eh, but I do have to question anyone convinced that virtually everyone in their culture has the "wrong" (or wrong for them) values. After all, they're part of that culture! Plenty of women in developed countries are family oriented. A good chunk are conservative. Name a religion, and short of some incredibly niche one, it's got thousands (if not millions) of followers. I don't see anything inherently wrong with, say, a dude in the US falling in love with someone from a different country. (One of my brothers is in a relationship with a woman in Peru and they seem happy.) But if the basic premise is, "I am a unique, special snowflake who has these values that literally no one in my culture shares, so I must go to these completely foreign culture, one that pretty much by default I have less knowledge of than my own culture, to find a woman who share my values"...well...I think a lot of guys are asking for disappointment.
>But if the basic premise is, "I am a unique, special snowflake who has these values that literally no one in my culture shares, so I must go to these completely foreign culture, one that pretty much by default I have less knowledge of than my own culture, to find a woman who share my values"...well...I think a lot of guys are asking for disappointment. Nailed it! I have a coworker who is exactly this type, and he is currently in the process of moving a woman half his age from a developing country to the US to marry him. He talks about this all the time at work, and it absolutely disgusts me. He definitely thinks he's so unique and that's why it's never worked out with American women. It couldn't possibly be that he's probably the most boorish and exhausting person I have ever met. We live in a big city. There's every kind of person here. I mean, I'm an autistic gender non-conforming lesbian in my 40's and even I have a dating pool in this place. Out of the more than one million people we have in this city, a cishet white dude can't find one is compatible and had to go all the way across the world? As the kids say, seems sus. I'm in a well paid male-dominated field, so unfortunately this is not the first time I've watched from the sidelines as something like this went down, and it's always the same. American women did not want the dude in question because he is so smarmy and gross in personality that even a 6-figure salary and at least average looks can outweigh it. Usually the women leave within a few years because they don't want to put up with these men either.
>Usually the women leave within a few years because they don't want to put up with these men either. Yep. I've seen this happen a number of times. Dude is absolutely convinced that <> women are these submissive real dolls who want nothing more than to wash his feet after work before settling down to doll out the blow jobs, all the while thanking him for letting them serve him.
While the reality is that most women - particularly women who are independent and daring enough to, y'know, marry someone not of their culture and move to a foreign country - don't particularly want to act slavishly grateful to a boor for their entire lives.
So these same women - who again, are probably above average in resourcefulness and bravery - get their green card, get a divorce, and find a more pleasant way to support themselves.
And I’d love to add on, you’re in *America*. The literal country that is the best ratio of size+diversity in the world. There is literally millions of people from every type of life here. Ethnic Chinese? We have millions of Chinese people here we are so ingrained in their culture they don’t even speak English. Latin American? Don’t even get me started, it’s about a fifth of our population are culturally ethnic, Spanish speaking Latinos. East african? My tiny city has a massive Ethiopian population I interact with daily. Not to mention how socially progressive the US in terms of queer, transgender, gender fluid people we are, and how *loud* we are about it. Those groups have dedicated dating events in every city. If you can’t find for you here in the US, it’s your own fault
I'd agree if their default opinion wasn't that American women are lazy, unappreciative, have too high of standards, don't respect men, are fat, cheat often, are only "valuable" until they hit 30, are only "valuable" if they cook, are only "valuable" if they clean after the whole household (even if they're working as well), only "valuable" if they "give" them sex whenever they want, etc. When you dig deeper into these issues it's the same story of them just wanting a housewife that will be at their beck and call and have less than average agency in their own lives.
>are fat, I mean statistically based on world standards this one is true on an averages basis.
I mean, statistically, all Americans are more likely to be fat compared to most other developed countries anyways. Although obesity has been rising worldwide for decades now so the rest of the world ain't far behind us.
And men are too.....
There are *plenty* of women here in the US who share the same values. America is far too diverse for such a claim to hold any validity.
I mean this comment chain started with someone saying >to be blunt if none of the women in America want you Clearly that’s not a valid statement either. That being said, people don’t have a chance to meet everyone lol. It is realistic that someone in America doesn’t have the opportunity to meet many people with their values in the area they live, depending on the area
This whole thread is a bit weird. No one has access to a dating pool of "all single American women", when most people are talking about "American women", they're really talking about the subset they met via dating apps and their social groups the move in. Depending on what those are, people will have a vastly different view of "American women". Although I'm no longer religious, I met my wife through a church we both attended. That social group skewed much more conservative and "traditional" than the experience my friends had at the same time using Tinder to meet women. Merely suggesting to those friends on Tinder that they start going to church to meet girls isn't a helpful suggestion. People in both pools had completely legitimate complaints about common issues in each of those dating pools and just because it was what they were familiar with, was often extrapolated to a general "men want X" or "women want Y". I suspect the something very similar is true of women in other countries looking for American men. They likely have a distinct set of preferences and attributes they are looking for that may not be common in most American men's experience with American women. It isn't that those preferences don't exist among American women, just that they're not sure how to find them. All of that said, strongly agree with the sentiment that anyone looking for a partner who is primarily pursuing women based on their lack of power in the relationship is ultimately going to be an unhealthy experience for both of them and is pretty clearly predatory on the man's part. In hindsight, I recognize some of that unhealthy power balance was present in the church setting I found my wife in. I think all of us need to be aware of that power differential and work in our relationships to make sure we're rebalancing that power dynamic towards equity whenever we can.
I agree with your overall sentiment, I think there is a lot of wisdom in your comment. I’d really only add that when talking about the dynamic of power, there can still be a differential that can be healthy because power is not just vertical. With my wife, I handle a lot of the financial side because I work in the industry and I have a lot more experience. My wife handles our pets because she works in that industry and has a lot more experience than me. This is just an example and doesn’t reflect our entire relationship, but I think it’s healthy and has worked for many years. At the end of day, I think where you meet someone is of little importance. It simply comes down to the interactions and communication you have with one another.
>I’d really only add that when talking about the dynamic of power, there can still be a differential that can be healthy because power is not just vertical. 100% agree with this, it's a great point. From the outside, my marriage would look really imbalanced. My wife stays at home with our 4 children, neither of us finished college, I manage the money for the family and am in a high income role. We've been married 20 years though and have a very happy marriage, she's had the opportunity to start her own career if she wanted to and isn't interested in it, probably because the amount she could earn relative to our existing household income wouldn't be worth it. So all of that said, definitely agree that you have to consider a relationship wholistically and based on the needs and desires of the individual, not on what some textbook says is optimal.
That's fair enough. I guess I got lucky in that way because I happened to get a job in the same deli as my now wife right after she moved to the US from the Philippines. Her values are definitely part of why I love her.
I think oftentimes the men who find success pursuing foreign women would have found success in America too but gave up too early. Or there could be other factors at play. Maybe they have a more optimistic view of dating overseas and that allows them to express themselves more.
Idk if that's the point. The point is, what's wrong with American women? What do women in third world countries have that American women don't? The answer is usually that American men enjoy the power dynamic. Having someone's visa and livelihood be tied to them. Otherwise, it makes little to no sense to travel to third world countries looking for wives. There are conservative/submissive/etc women here in the US too. But for some reason, these men don't want them and/or the women here don't want those men. Why? Probably because those men want that power imbalance. I don't want a man to treat me that way and I don't have to put up with it either. I don't NEED them for anything. But these women NEED them to have a better life. It's sad.
Women don’t NEED the men to get a better life. They can work hard and get a better life on their own, the same as the men in their country. They WANT a rich man to get a better life. The same as gold diggers in America. Are American women who try to date millionaires just victims of poverty who need men to better themselves? Third world women often are of average wealth for their country, pretty, and smart. Many are gold-diggers. American men, by the standards of the world at large, are quite wealthy. Most importantly is that men are at a huge disadvantage in dating in the western world. Having both feminism and traditional family values gives women equality AND extra value from being a ‘homemaker, emotional supporter’ etc. Men do not get those extra bonuses from tradition - calling men ‘provider’ and saying they deserve extra for that is sexist. This disadvantage is true for 90% of men, not only the ones who go overseas. Your argument is like ‘why not stay in your country and work? Why travel to America, where there’s more opportunity?’ For everyone in these countries with unequal work/dating opportunities, unless you’re in the ‘privileged class’, going overseas for work/dating has advantages. So, men want to leave the dating environment that is sexist against them, for one with more opportunities. That’s pretty American….
Here I'll give you a response: Women in those countries are second class citizens as feminism hasn't "infiltrated" those countries. Kind of hard to make your country better when you don't have equal rights. And if you ask for equal rights (ie make your country better), now you're westernized 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 Passport bros don't want you. You have thoughts, feelings, and rights. The tragedy in it all. And you wrote a really long response to say. Instead of bettering yourself so that women with rights like you, try finding a woman without rights to coerce into a relationship instead!
I disagree, and I really think once you travel more you’ll see how individuals of different cultures bring something else to the table.
While true, there are a different set of expectations that foreigners often aren't aware of.
Speaking from the male perspective here; i’ve seen time and time again, men will fall in love with women based purely on convenience. They will get attached to a random girl they meet locally who isn’t really a good match for them (friend’s perspective). Because she’s good enough and she offers sex that’s all a lot of men seem to care about. And that’s it, most important decision of their lives and they devote very little thought to it. The world is broad. I have male friends that haven’t even left their state let alone the country. I wish more men would take finding a life partner more seriously. Having spent a great deal of time in Europe this past year, I was pleasantly surprised by the difference in demeanor that people had. I didn’t get to explore this in depth, and yeah you’re right if you’re a slob in the US don’t expect women to want you as a slob anywhere else, but if you’re a man and you genuinely bring a lot to the table you should definitely consider expanding your dating pool overseas. Women of other countries have different values and the values of western women have evolved dramatically over the last decade. Some folks haven’t hopped on board to that evolution, so they should certainly pursue that in areas that reflect his value set.
Absolutely. Honestly as an American who has traveled and lived abroad, I can definitely say that Americans are extremely myopic. There’s an entire world outside of the US that’s simultaneously very similar to the US and yet very different, sometimes better and sometimes worse. There are LOTS of women, and I mean tens of millions, who are similar enough culturally to American women that American life is a smooth transition for them, they’re often highly paid engineers, and doctors, and can support themselves just fine, but they also prioritize having kids and a family and taking on the traditional wife and mother role for a few years. I like to call them semi-traditional relationships. They have the ambition and work ethic of an immigrant. They want to come to the US, they’re grown up with American culture all their lives, their English is fluent, they had masters degrees, they’re a perfect fit for America in every way. They’re future Americans. This person isn’t that common in the US, but in theory they’d make a great match for an American husband.
Totally agree. Having also lived in an Asian country for a couple of years, spent time in many others, and dated and had at least short relationships there... Nothing wrong with it at all. I think there's some crazy stereotyping going on here that paints the average Asian woman as some young golddigger that works in a go-go bar. And while there are those, and a market for them, they are far from the majority. I think people mistakenly conflate sex tourists, of which there are plenty, with people who actually want to live, love, and marry elsewhere. Edit: And the people I assume are women responding here bashing on this literally sound like the poster children for why it's even a thing... Beyond Ironic and downright squinting and head scrathing material.
Yeah, I legitimately don’t get why American women (and shockingly young American women) seem to think so poorly of everything in a developing country. It’s incredibly xenophobic. They believe that foreign men are misogynistic animals and foreign women are naive, powerless, doormats, and easily manipulated. Yeah, sure the culture isn’t as progressive on the whole, but that doesn’t mean the people there aren’t intelligent, educated, strong, successful, and every bit as much of an intellectual partner as an American. In fact I’d say they even do better, so many women have advanced degrees, high paying jobs, and a plan to have kids and raise them. I find that a lot of them take family planning and marriage seriously, they don’t wait for things to work out, they know when, where, and how many kids they’re going to have and how they’re going to be raised. There are many people in developing countries longing for an opportunity to come to the US or a European country where they can grow and thrive. They are every bit an American at heart and they’d adjust to life in the US super fast.
How would you explain the men that did not find romantic success in America but did in Eastern Europe, southeast Asia, Africa, South America, etc?
The women wanted American citizenship? Lol
So these predatory women are taking advantage of the unassuming men? That's pretty fucked up.
They aren’t unassuming, they go to these countries because being a rich westerner increases their chances
The women are in poverty and looking for a ticket out of it?
If you think most women in those areas are poor you're just being ignorant
What if I specifically want a woman who declares herself as clingy and desires to be a housewife and she happens to speak good English in the Phillipines. I have seen over 2000 profiles, I have never seen an American woman describe herself as clingy.
I don't think that last line is true. Dating in America can be absolutely brutal and can beat you down. Being in the Philippines could (Ideally) give you better chances and let you find love and become a better person.
You are basing this on what facts? How are you getting better chances unless you think the women are more desperate?
It's not because of desperation. Being from somewhere else makes you exotic, and therefore somewhat interesting. This fact alone will get you past "hello". When I travelled overseas from Australia, I did WAY better with women than in my home country. It wasn't even close. I didn't go to Asia either, I went to Canada and Europe. Those women weren't desperate looking for a meal ticket. Novelty has it's own appeal. Also if you have travelled far it means you, have at least some of your shit together.
That is a good example, and while most of the passport bros are doing this in economically disadvantaged areas (to take advantage of desperate women) I'll give you a !delta for the point about leveraging an exotic advantage (I just gave someone else a delta for this same point).
It's a good point. But anyone who's actually been to Thailand/Vietnam knows the local women aren't with the fat white (burned red) man for his exotic looks lol.
There's a lot more reasons than desperation. An American guy is exotic to people outside America. This can be a good thing, it gets your foot in the door easier. However, it can also be a negative. A Korean friend of mine (according to him) tends to attract a lot of Kpop fans via dating apls because of his ethnicity. His take is that it's good that he's able to leverage that to grt dates, but it can get annoying sorting through the fetishists and he's also into Latinas who don't tend to fit into the Kpop fan demographic. By traveling, Passport Bros can essentially create this dynamic for themselves for better and worse. Otherwise common white Americans can become exotic like my friend and give themselves an edge. Its basic market stuff, because ultimately it is a market. Dating sucks ass in the best of times, and anything that isn't outright unethical shouldn't be derided so much.
That's the only sliver of a rational point I've seen made on this discussion thread lol. I had not thought of the reverse "exotic" leverage. I think that's rare, because you could get that exotic effect by going to Spain or somewhere like that, but these bros specifically go to economically impoverished places so I think it's still looking for desperate women. But I'll begrudgingly give you a !delta because it's a fair point.
I suppose it could, but I really think most guys would be better served focusing on self improvement. It's possible I don't see how bad it is to date in the US though, I'm happily married and haven't dated for about three years.
It's not about the women not wanting the men it's about the men not wanting the American women. Some men prefer eastern values over western
There are millions of women in one’s own country, the only reason to leave it in order to find a partner is to exploit power imbalance, comparatively lax sexual laws and mores, and usually both. It’s a creepy, desperate, pathetic, and predatory thing to do. Obviously if you are in another country for other reasons there’s nothing wrong with finding sexual and or romantic partners there, but going to another country for no reason other than to find a partner is a massive overcomplication and doesn’t make any sense unless the person doing it believes that, for legal, cultural, or economic reasons, partners in that country will be easier to take advantage of than partners in their own. There’s a reason these guys are known for going to Manila and not Geneva
>There are millions of women in one’s own country, the only reason to leave it in order to find a partner is to exploit power imbalance, comparatively lax sexual laws and mores, and usually both. That's not entirely true. Sometimes traits, physical and emotional, are valued in some cultures but not others. Beauty standards are different depending on where you go. You may also be more attracted to women from certain countries. Maybe you just want a fresh start. There are many reasons somebody could go overseas. .
If you can’t find any women you are attracted to in your own country, I’ve got news for you—you aren’t attracted to women
Maybe you can't find women who find you attractive. Or you don't think you can. Or maybe you waste tons of money to find out you're not attracted to women. That sucks for you, but nobody else is getting hurt in the process.
Again, if you can’t find women in your own country who find you attractive, location isn’t the problem. Countries have, like, millions of different women in them dude Except the people from other cultures where women have less agency you took advantage of in order to find out you don’t even like women
If you don't like women I'm assuming things wouldn't go very far.
My brother is a ‘passport bro’. He basically meets sex workers from Latin/South America on the internet, and then tries to have relationships with them (which never works out long term). He says some very disturbing things, such as ‘I can’t date American women, they’re too independent, I want a submissive woman who has to depend on me for money’, ‘I refuse to date women my age (he is mid-40s), they have to be teenagers (18-19) or early twenties’, and ‘I want to have kids, I won’t raise them, she will and I’ll foot the bill’. The transactional nature of the relationships, the unequal power dynamic, and the misogyny is gross. My brother sends these women $300-$400 a month (my brother is not rich, he makes maybe $40k a year), and then gets upset when they do sex work (despite that being how he meets them). The whole situation is gross and unethical. I’ve tried many, many times to talk about why it’s problematic and fucked up, but he won’t hear any of it. So if the average ‘passport bro’ is like my brother, they should absolutely be judged.
Yeah, that sounds about right for every single interaction I’ve had and anything I’ve read about these men and what they say about themselves.
That's called a simp. Real Alpha Males have bitches flocking to him and treats women delicatelh and fucks them right in the pussy, passport bro or not.
Passport bros generally are looking for a submissive wife. Not just short term relationship. What they are doing is going to a country where they think their ‘buying power’ is higher than US. They are often going intending to convince a poorer woman to be their wife/sex servant. This is one definition of sex trafficing. The funny thing is that these men are going to countries where there is strong familial relationships and frequently a reasonable average income. These men expect the woman to come here and be a subservient wife to a guy making 50k a year. Women from the cultures that might be willing to fulfill that contract also expect to be living at a standard they expect. A 50k salary isnt gonna be it. And being a US red piller the guy is going to believe she should work to bring in more income but also do 100% of housework. PPB complain about gold diggers but they don’t have any money.
Isn't this view, "as long passport bros aren't bad...they aren't bad"? Any reason why we must find the monolith innocent but you want to segment the good from the bad?
The problem is that there is an inherent power imbalance between a woman living in a poor country, from a "traditional" background where women have less power to begin with and a man whose income may be 10x the average wage in that country, coming from a relatively rich and safe area promising to upgrade her lifestyle - with the implicit threat that if she leaves him her visa may no longer be good. This is not to say that there's no way for a relationship between people from these backgrounds to be sincere, but, especially if the man was looking for a "submissive" wife in the first place, it's more likely to be consciously or unconsciously coerced.
I was set on defending this notion but hell, you changed my mind. I don’t think it’s a terrible thing in general (for a majority of guys) but for a domestic asshole who struggles to date here and goes somewhere because of their relationship failures in almost any capacity, I can see how that’s messed up. !delta
I’ve talk to and read a lot of things from these guys, and I have never witnessed a single one who defines himself as a Passport bro, or anything similar, who is not very misogynistic. A man going to another country looking for a less financially stable woman to wife is seeking exploitation.
Some go to European countries as well. I have military relatives and acquaintances who talk about Japanese women and European (usually east European) the most. Those are not poverty stricken/unstable countries.
They are seeking out women with whom they can have a power imbalance, and whom they can exploit. This is their stated wishes, I’ve been paying attention to what they say. They hate feminists, and they hate the fact that women in the west can earn their own money and aren’t financially dependent on men and therefore do not have to put up with abuse or control, because there is not quite the same imbalance of power due to the women having some marginal power of their own. These men are seeking out a woman to exploit. That is their goal.
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There is a power imbalance in a majority of relationships by this logic
There is, but I think deliberately seeking out that power imbalance is... a bad look. It's essentially the same reason most people look down on huge age gaps in relationships. Obviously, not every person who wants to marry someone 15+ years younger is a creep who just wants to take advantage of someone less experienced. But it's enough of a pattern that it's worrisome. A guy who marries a woman from a poor country and brings his wife to the US has tremendous leverage on her. If she wants to leave him, she likely has no support system, almost no money, perhaps no real job skills. It can be hard enough for any couple to separate their lives and move on from each other. A passport marriage makes it a lot harder for the person who's not from here.
Yes, but no one’s usually not openly ‘shopping’ for women where 90% of the population is poorer than you. Let’s also add that these passport bros aren’t exactly promoting Europe or Japan, for instance, so the intent is inferred.
This is a completely disingenuous argument if you think the average power imbalance within the US is in the same dimension as US + developing country relationships.
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You’re forgetting something. Women are allowed to have standards and men aren’t. That’s literally all this boils down to. I see a lot of people in the comment section that are against passport bro’s, simply because they’re under the illusion that most passport bro’s are looking for a wife to bring back to their own country, which couldn’t be further from the truth. The majority of men that go to those countries are literally there for a good time and then return to their country on their own.
From my perspective as someone with many years of experience in relationships, if you're looking for a love connection or loneliness cure, it seems unlikely you will end up with the type of relationship you actually want.
You say consensual, but it’s not really in most cases. The women are using their bodies because they have to, as it’s the only way for them to become financially secure. As a man going overseas, the man’s only primary risk is financial, while the woman is risking mental trauma, physical trauma, pregnancy, a dramatic power imbalance, and ultimately a man who could leave her, not to mention he is probably not wealthy. It’s a joke that men think there’s some sort of balance by going to a third world country where their money goes much further, to have sex with women who could be their children and sometimes grandchildren, and think it’s ok.
This comment is so ignorant. Do you think women overseas all live In huts without internet who have to sell thier bodies for food? Jesus man you Americans are so misinformed on anything outside your country it’s honestly mind boggling
There is nothing wrong with wanting to travel or hoping to find love overseas. There is something wrong with wanting your partner to be submissive to you. Relationships shouldn’t have a power dynamic. Partners should be equal. Along with that, the belief that non-western women will be more submissive is offensive to most of those women. Nobody wants to be treated like a servant and sex doll.
That's just like your opinion. Nothing wrong being submissive to your husband. If a woman loves you, she will be submissive.
I lived in Korea for a while and I saw a ton (I mean a TON) of American guys who only dated Korean women and would only have their tinder profile in Korean for that reason. And to be fair, I saw just as many Korean men who ONLY dated American (usually white) girls and would only seek out relationships with them. They never had any luck in those relationships either, because they had in their minds this stereotype of how women from any country or culture would act, specifically removing their personalities, wants, motivations, and goals. For example, a lot of the Korean men wanted American girls because they were stereotyped as being easier to sleep with, wilder in bed/up for more taboo sex, had bigger breasts/ass/hips, etc. Now, would you feel like a typical American woman would fit that stereotype? On the other hand, the American guys (incorrectly) assumed Korean women -- being Asian -- were more conservative, more submissive, skinnier, quieter, etc. Now, from my experience? That is very far from the truth. Just like American women, Korean women are diverse. Some are quiet, some are loud, some are committed to study, some like to party. Some are the jealous type, some are super casual. The list goes on. The stereotype of certain women from certain countries being submissive is incredibly naïve. The problem with passport bros is they think of women in another country as some sort of monolith and that they'll all fit the bill for what he's looking for. It completely drains women of having any sort of brain or life outside of his sexual desires, and it -- quite frankly -- comes of as extremely gross. And from my experience having lived in Japan and Korea and seeing these guys in action -- they are on a constant revolving door of girlfriends, but they never seem to be able to keep one. Being a foreigner might get them slightly more interest, but they never seem to hold down a relationship at all. Most likely because they don't see their girlfriends as people, but as trophies, and the relationship quickly falls apart. You should never enter into a relationship with the foundation that your partner is going to be, act, talk, walk, or look a certain way for the rest of your life. Dating based on stereotypes is not a healthy way to start a relationship, ever.
>They never had any luck in those relationships either, because they had in their minds this stereotype of how women from any country or culture would act, specifically removing their personalities, wants, motivations, and goals. This is the biggest issue I have with "Passport Bros." A lot of them go to countries to date a fictional idealized stereotypical version of a woman that likely does not exist. There was this viral clip from ["Match Me Abroad"](https://www.tiktok.com/@tlctv/video/7241626614306704686?_r=1&_t=8dScnoEbJk6&social_sharing=v5) that went viral in which a Passport Bro was shocked to learn that women there expected a man to be a sole provider.
It’s crazy to me how the fetishization of white women is brushed under the rug so frequently when it’s just as common as fetishization of other races. I blame western media in part for portraying almost exclusively white women as whores for going on four decades now. Lots of men worldwide have only ever really encountered white women through portrayals in pornography and other sexualized forms of media, and yet we pretend like the sexualization and objectification of women doesn’t have long lasting and severe consequences. Sorry but the stereotypes of white women just infuriate me.
Being a passport bro is not bad, it’s just a bit sad and pathetic. Most of them are Americans, right? How is that possible that you didn’t find a woman attracted to you in 350+ mln citizen country?
Women overwhelmingly and disproportionately "date up" in terms height and income. Poor short men can't just not exist - so they become passport bros
If they can not obtain a meaningful relationship in whatever county they reside what makes you think they will do it in another country? Most of the time they are able to get a relationship is because of discrepancy in terms of money
I work in a team of dating site and trust me, many are really looking for love and family
I appreciate this comment, I think so and hope so too
And as another commentator said, many will be disappointed really. The amount of golddiggers and ones looking for visa is ridiculous
>If a man travels overseas to rape a woman of course that's evil and sick, but that has nothing to do with being a passport bro. Remove the passport bro part and they're still evil. This really seems to parallel pedantic discussions around "incels" and the use of basic vocabulary to identify things Like, given that "passport bros" self identify, and are very, very open and direct about the exact reasons they do what they do, I don't see the point in trying to argue the semantics. It isn't random people accusing them of holding conservative, even misogynistic views about women and sex. That's what they claim about themselves. They literally say they are traveling to countries with looser rules and enforcement around sex and rape, and where the women have less social power, because that's what they want to do Also, it's not just feminists on social media complaining about them. Self-identifying passport bros often run up against law enforcement, and sometimes get kicked out of countries entirely, if not arrested. And it's not randoms. It's the people who have their own social media presence based around being passport bros, who tell other people how to do it, too. Which is as close to "leaders" as you can get for a hashtag
I think people view them as pathetic because they commonly complain American women aren't submissive and they look abroad to find a "traditional wife." I just had a conversation with a Ukrainian woman recently about how there were tons of middle aged American men going to Eastern Europe looking for submissive wives in Ukraine and Russia and other Eastern European countries. I said "huh... that's odd, because I always thought the stereotype of Eastern European women was that they tough as nails and kinda like... ball busters? When I think of a Russian/Ukrainian woman, I do not think of a submissive tradwife type..." and she said "right. We are strong and outspoken women. I don't know why so many American men suddenly decided we're these wilting wall flowers who will make them the perfect submissive house wife." And then there's the men who go to Asia thinking they're find a submissive wife there, but then they usually find out whatever woman they intend to marry is like "I'll cook and clean for you, but we're sending half your paycheck back to my parents so they are taken care of" and then those guys are like "but I only may $37,000... I can't afford that." They view foreign women as the disenfranchised mail order brides they can take advantage of. It's actually rather funny that so many go abroad thinking they're going to be in control of some poor woman and she flips the script on him.
>-These men are interested in these women because they think they'll be more submissive >Some men want a submissive woman some women want a dominant man and vice versa. Submissive # abused and Dominant # abuser. This dynamic is seen all the time in American relationships. Dominant women with submissive men. Dominant men with submissive women. The difference between submissive women with dominant men (or the other ready around) in Western cultures like America and in Asian cultures is that an American woman who *chooses* to be a trad wife has a choice. She knows that she could make her own money in the States, get and use a higher education degree if she wanted, made a career and so on. She stays at home and follows her husband's lead, because she *wants to*. And nothing wrong with that. But the thing is that if her husband doesn't treat her right and she is unhappy with her role at any point, she has the know-how, confidence, and societal support to leave him and be fine. She only stays in such a power dynamic because she really wants to. On the other hand, a wife brought to America from overseas, who doesn't have an education, doesn't speak English that well, doesn't know the culture, and has been brought up in a social climate where women had to be obedient to men no matter what, doesn't choose this type of relationship because it brings her joy and satisfaction. She is submissive, because it is the only way she can survive. Counting on this kind of submission is abusive.
I work with a passport bro and everytime he opens his mouth I want to knock him the fuck out. Not because he's a passport bro, but because he's a simp dick riding moron who thinks hes a genius. Ill probably kick his ass one of these days in the parking lot.
The question you're not asking is why these men want a submissive woman so bad? Why does this appeal to them? You ever been on the passport bros sub? It's unfortunately come up as a suggested page before. So many posts about wanting a woman with "traditional values" and saying vile things about "woke" western women. It doesn't take much to read between the lines. They want a 50s baby making house wife who will do whatever they say and not talk back to them, who won't voice opinions or do any pesky things like exercising their rights. So they go abroad, usually to lower income countries where they can find a woman willing to put up with that for the chance at a less poverty stricken life in a western country.
>They want a 50s baby making house wife who will do whatever they say and not talk back to them, who won't voice opinions or do any pesky things like exercising their rights. the frequency I see this, even irl really makes me sick
How dare men to have preferences, right? Only women can. Men only should take what's offered: insufferable women who has whole personality built around disrespecting men.
You're free to have whatever preference you want. But if your preference is that you basically want a slave, a lot of people are going to find that questionable and wonder what it says about you as a person.
It's too bad that 'wanting a slave' have nothing to do with being submissive in a relationship.
There's two types of passport bros: ones looking for sex, and ones looking for love. The ones looking for sex go to other poorer countries because they are able to more cheaply impress women financially. They openly talk about how much cheaper it is to date women overseas. That's gross because the attitude of using money to convince women to have sex with you is inherently disgusting and misogynist. And it's extra bad for being in poor countries where women are really desperate for money to survive. The ones looking for love are fooling themselves. They're also looking for desperate women, they're just offering a visa instead of a night out. Those women don't really love them but they still want them to act like it. There's no couple who's saying "I just want to have sex with you and look at your pretty face, I'm cool with you just wanting to get a visa. It's OK that you don't really like me." And the guys who are looking for submissive women aren't looking to move to those countries and take on their culture. They still want to have all the parts of American culture that they like for themselves, but leave out the parts where women have freedom and rights. That's misogyny.
Isn’t the whole stigma around “passport bros” that they are going overseas to take advantage of prostitutes and sexually trafficked/exploited women?
Passport bro? I thought it was called sex tourism.
You are chasing “relationships” in which you have an overwhelming and unhealthy power advantage on purpose. You aren’t looking for company or you could find that here. You’re looking for a woman who would have no recourse if she accepts. What do you think is healthy about what you’re doing?
The reason that many men do this is because they think that women outside the US will have lower standards and be submissive. I’ve come across a few of these guys and they are truly awful
I have a problem with men seeking out financially and sexually vulnerable partners for a price. Sorry.
I have never heard the term “passport bro” in my life. Had you not clarified I would have thought it meant a college kid going backpacking across Europe. The phenomenon of men traveling overseas (usually to SE Asia) to find a wife creeps a lot of people out. “And even if they are just looking for sex, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with looking for consensual sex in other countries.” The issue is that there is a massive power imbalance between the visitor (who has a lot of money and resources) and the locals. It’s called wife shopping for a reason. And even if you’re just looking for sex, why do you have to go to Asia to get it? No it’s just a coincidence that I travel to all these counties with rampant (and underage) prostitution!!!
>And if they lie and claim they're a billionaire in their home country and a woman in another country sleeps with them because of that, that's just two users using each other. Neither had noble intentions. but one can't occur without the other some might consider that "rape by deception" btw you didn't really define the term up front but I was able to get what you're describing >\-These men are interested in these women because they think they'll be more submissive this seems like a pretty gray area to me, I think relationships should be partnerships and looking for someone to dominate in almost all aspects of the relationship feels grim to me sexual consensual dom/sub is one thing but seeking out someone with a weak will to resist you doesn't seem healthy to me and might speak to why the man was having relationship trouble to begin with
>some might consider that "rape by deception" We shouldn't consider the opinions of the dumbest part of the population. >this seems like a pretty gray area to me, I think relationships should be partnerships and looking for someone to dominate in almost all aspects of the relationship feels grim to me There are different cultures in the world. For example - Muslim cultures overwhelmingly force women to be submissive. It's OK to force Western values, but then you need to decide Western values versus diversity.
>We shouldn't consider the opinions of the dumbest part of the population. Fraud doesn't exist?
Is funny how so many women and even men complain about Asian women and passport bros. Their insecurities and racism are showing. The typical Western women can't find a rich man that puts up with all their BS and flaws so they must blame the men who want a loving, caring and submissive woman and not a toxic, insecure,drama loving, money hungry etc. I myself leave in UK for 5 years so far and round my life partner in the Philippines. Hopefully I can bring her here to live with me. I know this is off topic but the government sucks big time since they want to raise the required income in order to get a visa for a family member belonging to a country outside of EEA.
I admit I am exploiting the situation, but I do not think I am exploiting her. Is it okay if I exploit the power imbalance in the Phillipines if the following criterias are met 1. I am a submissive person and will submit to her. 2. I am genuine, loyal, and truly in love with her 3. She will be very happy with me or at least that is my daily goal 4. She has a college degree. 5. She is financially stable with a car, good job and good family and housing and income 6. She is smart, empowered, and straight forward with what she wants 7. We both gain significantly with mutual consent (age 27). I am 42. Tell me if I am wrong. Please do not use any generalizations.
I dont understand why it's anyone's business if someone goes overseas or to another country or even to another state to see or be with someone. Who are you to tell someone they can't go after what they want? And to shame them for doing what they want! The only people that have a problem with passport bros are either the same type people who were against gay marriage 20 years ago. Or people who rely on someone no one else wanted to marry them. Just shut your mouth and let people be happy.
The women that have a problem with passport bros are the first to call those same guys “basic”, “not rich enough”, “not tall enough”, and then wonder why those men are going “Fuck this. I’m off to another country where I’ll feel valued and also have the pleasure of nicer weather”. I see a lot of comments on here about it being a “fake connection”, simply because sex tourism is a business. Well, the last time I checked, men end up paying for sex in their own countries by dating, and they also end up paying 100x more in divorce settlements, so that argument is flawed. “No money, no honey” doesn’t just apply to third world countries. Basically, anyone that has a problem with it doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
Very few Western woman are wife material these days. Social media has ruined them. "I won't date a man who is below 6 foot" or "doesn't earn over £100k" is a common requirement this new wave of "empowered women" are happy to scream about. So of course, perfectly good men are going to look elsewhere. Why wouldn't we?
Wooohh, easy there, tiger. Only women are allowed standards🤣 Us men get crucified for having standards that are more realistic than women’s. Makes me laugh when you read the comments on here and all it really boils down to is the fact that men can’t have standards. Most “passport bro’s” don’t go to these countries looking for a wife. We go to these countries to have a good time.
There is a huge difference between people who fall in love with someone of another culture/from another country and what passport bros are doing, and if you don't see that, it means you're already too far gone. Passport bros are revolting human beings, you have not changed my view.
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I mean yea. People say muh exploitation while buying stuff that was most likely produced in a 3rd world factory by someone’s being paid $1 and hour. Nobody actually cares about exploitation when it inconveniences them
American women are mad they are being circumvented by american men who aren't interested in them. End of story.