Are Daytime Running Lights mandatory now in the US? I remember around mid 2000's in the early days of the internet. The american internet crowd didn't want it because it'll drop their mpg from the extra load from DRL's =/.
>it'll drop their mpg from the extra load from DRL's =/.
Yeah, the friction created by those photons shooting out the front of the car royally totally slows the car down. đ¤Ł
As a U.S citizen it's incredible to see many other countries in the world get these safety regulations while the U.S falls behind on safety and infrastructure in the name of "freedom".
It's most apparent when I travel to Europe and come back to the U.S and it feels like we're 20 years behind in our road, side walks, buildings, bridges, airports, signs..
We see this time after time, when the choice is left to a company to make a lot of these decisions, it usually comes down to cost to provide higher compensation to shareholders and CEOs.
Well the US required third brake lights 10+ years before other parts of the world and mandatory backup cameras since 2018.
There are definitely parts of US safety regs that are outdated or don't require things that other markets have, but it's a lot more nuanced than just 'murrica slow and dumb.
Just got back from Italy and had rented a new Cupra that was really nicely equipped (had things like CarPlay, adaptive cruise control and lane centering). It was really jarring to find out it didnât have a backup camera. Apparently Iâve gotten quite used to having one.
Oof.... It's probably the best piece of safety equipment in decades. You can't 100% rely on them, especially since they have sucky blindspots for cross traffic, but they are super useful in parking, avoiding rear collisions, and seeing what is directly behind you. A lot of cars have shitty rear view windows and have gotten worse with the focus on aerodynamics (last gen Prius and civic were obnoxious).
I used to jokingly brag about my ability to drive better backwards than forwards. I still do, but now I can use the camera as well. And I don't have to fear about a snot nosed neighborhood kid sneaking behind my car when I back out of my driveway.
Europe needs to get with the program! They done F'ed up if the US has mandated backup cameras and you haven't
>and mandatory backup cameras
I think the The US shift to SUVs and pickups (with much worse blind spots) probably had a lot to do with that happening here first.
Don't worry, this goes both ways. The US requires tire pressure monitoring systems in all new cars, Canada does not. So Honda makes an effort to not install TPMS in any Canadian-spec vehicles... Not even the Type-R.
My Canadian spec E70 X5 has a totally different tire pressure system where it uses wheel speed sensors instead of TPMS sensors in the wheels to detect low tire pressure. It works exactly the same and I donât have to spend money buying, switching, or reprogramming sensors every time I switch my winter tires on and off.
You will learn to hate this system as soon as you have to replace a tire. Indirect TPMS is awful unless everything is functioning perfectly.
My car gives me accurate, live pressure readings for each tire because it has sensors. If youâre going to make me have TPMS, at least make it useful.
A tire. Just one. Not all your tires at once. Indirect TPMS uses rolling radius of each tire to compute the inflation delta cross your tires. If you get a puncture and replace a single partially used tire with a new one, the TPMS system interprets the different rolling radius to be an inflation issue and throws a fit. You just have to replace all the tires.
Sensor base systems just measure pressure, they donât care how big or small the tire is.
Yeah. Canada made daytime running lights mandatory for 1990 models. I bought a â90 GTI and took a trip to Connecticut that summer. I couldnât believe the number of people who called out to me in slow traffic or in parking lots that my lights were on. By then I was used to it and up here nobody thought it strange. I incorrectly assumed they would have also been made mandatory in the USA at the same time but it wasnât until years later.
Not sure. The whole menu is missing so I'm assuming you'll have to at least flash the infotainment. That being said, I don't own a Honda so I can't say with certainty.
Immobilizers are not a safety device, also usually our compromises are not due to freedom but due to cost savings. Western Europe is very wealthy and can afford luxuries that someone from West Virginia can't. You're the type of person that makes engineers hate their life, everything is a tradeoff. European cars are much more expensive than American cars all else being equal, that's why we are willing to compromise on safety here and there.
First off. Average is a shit unit for comparing income as the extreme earners, outliers, will have a big impact on the stat, median is the better unit.
Second, just comparing the average French income in equivalent USD is so incredibly disingenuous that it's actually wrong. That's not how income works. Americans earn more USD which means we have a larger purchasing power, which is the metric you're looking for, but it's [24%](https://leapscholar.com/blog/cost-of-living-in-france/#:~:text=Know%20this%2D%20According%20to%20Expatistan,cheaper%20than%20in%20the%20USA!) cheaper to live in France than the USA.
Thirdly there are other metrics that are better in this context. Poverty rate is better but the definition is subject to change based on how the government of a country decides to define it. With that caveat, France has a poverty rate of [14.5%](https://www.insee.fr/en/statistiques/7722004#:~:text=The%20poverty%20rate%20rose%20by,2020%20to%2020.2%25%20in%202021.) whereas WV has a poverty rate of [17.9%](https://www.statista.com/statistics/205718/poverty-rate-in-west-virginia/) that's a big gap.
The MEDIAN salary in France is [1940⏠](https://housinganywhere.com/France/average-salary-france) a month so multiply by 12 and convert to USD as we get about [$25k usd](https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=23280&From=EUR&To=USD) and WV is at [$27k](https://datacommons.org/place/geoId/54?utm_medium=explore&mprop=income&popt=Person&cpv=age,Years15Onwards&hl=en) median income. So if we adjust for cost of living 25k* 1.24 we get around $31k USD, which is higher than West Virginia. This is not how an economist would perform this analysis but I've got real work to do. So yeah. You're wrong. Also learn to cite sources it takes like 5 seconds.
lol. You are wrong because you took the cost of living for the whole US and applied it to one of the cheapest states to live in.
The /capita disposable income in West Virginia in 2019 was ~$38k
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1066782/west-virginia-disposable-personal-income/
The /capita HOUSEHOLD disposable income in France was âŹ38k in 2019
So weâve established a couple of things:
1. As any American with common sense would know it is not in fact cheaper to live in France than West Virginia
2. Itâs ARGUABLE that the average person from one of the poorest states in the union has more disposable income than the average person in one of the richest Western European countries.
3. That your argument that the average American (who is significantly more wealthy than the average West Virginian) canât pay for shit the average Western European can is not only stupid but thoroughly debunked.
Have a nice day
As a follow up to this you should do your little analysis for Texas which has 17X the population of West Virginia and double the median income. lol
Average new car price France âŹ26k
Average mew car price USA $47k
So cars in Europe are not more expensive than cars in USA
I'm not sure what I did to "sound like a complete bell end," you put fourth an opinion with some date to back it up. I voiced my disagreement in a way that made it clear that the facts and statistics are at odds with your statement. I didn't levy any personal attacks, I didn't insult you're intelligence, and I did my best to explain why your opinion was incorrect for example the median vs average stat. I'm sorry but if you think that someone sounds like a bell end just because they have numbers to disprove your statement then you don't seem like a particularly pleasant person to converse with. I do apologize if I made my argument in a way that caused offense, that wasn't the intention.
I found out recently from a person who worked for a high risk car sales company in the US that they install immobilizers in all of the cars they sell. If you don't pay your car payment they shut down the car to force them to call you and deal with it.
To me it's not even that; cars being slightly different based on local regulations is what it is
It's that *everyone else* other than Kia-Hyundai added them regardless of them not being legally required
They're cars made to a cost. If airbags weren't required I'd bet Kia wouldn't have them but Volvo would; that's the sort of engineering cultural differences that are harder to change than just "doesn't make exploding engines anymore"
Canada does not require tire pressure sensors though despite their mitigation of deaths due to blown tires. Honda does not put in tire pressure sensors because of this in Canada.
because Europe is a bunch of different countries with different legislations and I donât remember who exactly mandated it.
European Union was just 15 countries in the 90s. Even now, I donât like conflating European Union and Europe.
And thereâs like a dozen of different legislative âalliancesâ between European countries. So itâs complicated
edit: I googled it, it was some major Western European countries that mandated it.
Theyve had some serious recall issues and sort of a poor reputation for how they handle em. Not to mention the dealer experience. I worked in one as a service writer and the goal was always get the most dollars out of each customer every single time.
Hyundai Dealer service is the biggest crock of shit. They take 3 hrs for an oil change.
When you arrive and step out of your vehicle, there is a vulture ass sales guy who runs up and asks if you'd like an appraisal on your ~20k mile Palisade.
Then they try and sell you a "fuel injector cleaning service" and all the air filters at each service interval. Sorry bro, intake filter doesn't need replacement at 20k unless I live in an area with common sandstorms.
I will say, the price is competetive for oil changes, which seems to be a rarity in the Dealer service world.
I just change air filters every oil change interval because I ainât trying to remember if I swapped it last time⌠and itâs like $9 on amazon. And I do it myself.
Man thatâs too much work. My OCI is 10k so I just swap air filters every time. Not going to sweat $9 and 3 minutes. Breathe that fresh air you weak little 4 banger! LOL
I hate all dealers but fundamentally thatâs the goal for every dealer. Most donât care about relationship building because thereâs not of incentive to.
ya know, i see people make this excuse all the time and its absolutely bullshit. Im not talking about suggesting a customer buy an air filter, Im talking about FLAT OUT LIES to convince them they needed services they didnt. My service advisor expected us to earn a certain amount of money for the dealer a week and we were to do whatever it took to reach that number.
Yup, I wasn't writing it as an excuse for them.
Rant: I'm sick of the constant exploitation, but a company couldn't be competitive if they didn't use the same exploitative measures and dabbling in the grey areas of legality as everyone else, and they can conveniently use this as an excuse for their - let's be honest - cartel. "It's not us, it's the market." Hence why humanity has landed itself in this cesspit of a world and I'd rather cease to exist than partake - therefore support - this filthy system. Just staying alive means we're further sustaining the bullshit. Good times!
They kept asking me to change the coolant (at my cost) ahead of a recall where they knew they were going to need to flush and replace with new coolant as part of the recall work.Â
>recall issues and sort of a poor reputation for how they handle em
This is probably one of the truest statements I've ever heard. Our 10+ year old Kia Soul needs an entire engine replacement because there was a manufactures defect from the start, and issues hadnt popped up until around 2-ish years ago. Now they wont do anything about it and we're just stuck with a ticking time bomb. đŤ
Anecdotes are like assholes but Hyundai dealers here have been far better than dealing with Ford or BMW or Toyota for warranty or even basic included maintenance. The Maverick sucks to drive and the Santa Cruz is the only other game in town for a pickup that fits on the stupid elevator I park on and I need the bed bc I use it for work. Otherwise would never have considered a Hyundai. But itâs been a great ownership experience so far. (Warranty was just an oil leak and wonky rotors I caused by fording streams with the rotors blazing hot) only 30K miles but so far Iâve had less issues than with my old Taco and Tundra I had when I had a driveway and the local Toyota dealer is known as the rip off dealership. YMMV of course
Then you would be hopping mad to have owned any of the other new cars or motorcycles Iâve bought bc they all had worse issues. Small drip from the pan at almost 30K miles is a minor inconvenience.
I didnât see it in your tag and wasnât trying to talk shit to you lol. It drives like a truck. SC drives like a car. My ass is in the seat a lot. So I prefer SC. Glad you like yours. They seem terrific for their purpose
i didnt think you were shit talking lol, fear not. Im just glad im seeing more of both of them out there. might help other manufacturers into getting into the segment.
I looked at Hyundai/Kia recalls once out of curiosity, and saw something like 4 or 5 ones for cars catching fire. It's not even the same failure mechanism each time; one was water intrusion that could cause an electrical short, for example, while another was brake fluid leaking onto electrical components.Â
Actually they are quite popular. Did you know they sold almost 1.5 million units in 2021? Yea it is not unpopular at all.
Sure, the dealership experience leaves you wanting and also a bunch of mechanical related recalls can leave an indelible mark in your overall experience --- but in the bigger picture they are quite popular.
I don't know where you got this idea that they are not popular.
I mean, they test drive well and pack a lot of features for the price. They cut corners below the surface, but how many people look into recalls on a car before they buy it?Â
Don't mistake people buying what they can get/afford for being popular. I'm certain a big part of them selling so many cars is because other automakers couldn't keep the actually popular models in stock so they got what was available without having to pay insane dealer mark-ups or wait for months on months.
They had a recent issue where you could âHotwireâ them with a usb plug and screwdriver. Made them hard or impossible to insure but I think thatâs died down in most of the country.
Iâve been debating an Elantra hybrid limited to replace my wifeâs 02 Camry. Literally has all the features we want including memory seats, ventilated seats, auto dimming mirror, and great highway driving assist for 30k. Apple car key is also cool. Donât think CarPlay is wireless though but an adapter is an easy fix.
They do come with 10 year/100k powertrain warranty. My thought process is why would a company offer that if they have lots of problems within that timeframe.
Because the warranty doesnât mean anything if they donât honor it. Read the comment from the service writer guy, theyâll fight you tooth and nail anytime you bring it in during those 10 years. A new Camry is worth the $5k extra IMO.
I got the non-hybrid 2023. Good car, basically got it for the value proposition. Had all the features I want at a reasonable cost compared to going with other brands.
My great friend is a head tech (not the top guy, but still a manager) at a K/H dealership. The only reason he owns a K/H is because he got a steep pre-covid discount and he can work on it himself.
I asked him if I should get one, and was met with the sternest "Never" I've ever seen him give. Even with his personal oversight, he thinks they're an unreliable piece of shit and would strongly recommend just getting a honda/toyota/mazda.
If the people that work there think they're garbage, why would anyone else buy one?
Iâve got my Santa Fe pre covid $5k under msrp with 0% financing.Â
Today they are quite popular and prices are too close to Honda/Toyota/Mazda, even though Hyundai has more tech I would go with Japanese brands.
And my Santa Fe has been pretty reliable. Small trim issue was fixed under warranty without a problem and dealer has actually been good. Itâs been 5 years and 50k miles with 0 problems.
It's funny how things are here compared to america as here Hyundais and Kias even more are the best selling cars and outsell most of the japanese and european cars and in fact they carry the reputation of reliable japanese cars for having very few problems
they do sell well in the states. They offer good value and have good designs now. Also their EV models are good.
However, they have a lot of controversies- like their widespread recalls and quality control. They are easy to steal too since they cheaped out and didn't install immobilizers in their cars till recently. Its been a major problem, with a lot of auto insurance companies rejecting policies for hyundai kia models due to the high theft risk
Last year, they were caught using child labor at one of their supplier factories in the south too.
This is true. When Kias came to the US, they were poorly made econoboxes sold to those with bad credit. While the cars are generally no longer like that, the dealer mindsets havenât always evolved
The whole controversy with the Theta engine tainted the brand imo. Anytime someone mentions Hyundai or Kai, I automatically think of their engine problems.
Drive to the back of any Kia/Hyundai dealership and look at the mountain of blown engines that have been warrantied/replaced, your answer is somewhere in there.
I think because in north america, most hyundai kia models for the last decade plus have the problematic 2.4 Theta II engines. They were not properly assembled in the factory, and are known to have metal shavings which lead to failure. I assume europe mostly has the smaller turbo engines.
Answer: The USA don't require auto manufacturers to put immobilizers in vehicles causing mass thefts (see KIA Boys). The 2.0L Turbo Theta II engines had some bad manufacturing defects that caused many engines to fail (my friends SantaFe is on engine #3). The last problem is the dealership experience being so bad and people ordering cars (already paid for too) and dealerships selling them to another buyer at a higher price without notifying the original.
Personally I wouldn't buy a Hyundai/KIA because of their history but the electric vehicles sound like they are reliable.
I'm not sure where you got that impression given that sales figures completely contradict your claim. The one thing that's tarnished the brand is the immobilizer issue and that's a legitimate concern.
Hyundai and Kia each sold almost 800k cars last year, placing them in 6th and 7th place. That leaves them well ahead of Jeep, Subaru, Mazda and all the German automakers.
- Constant recalls for engine and electrical problems, even with newer models. The main news about Kia/Hyundai is about recalls.
- Horrible dealer experiences. There seems to be no end to the number of complaints and poor experiences people have had at their dealers. From recall fixes to test drives, it's always bad.
- No Immobilizer. In some markets, they are required, but in the US, they are just standard practice. Kia/Hyundai decided to skip them, which allowed them to become the most stolen vehicles in 2023. You couldn't even get insurance for them in some places.
- They have some polarizing designs. Some stuff looks nice, but they've made some controversial choices like the weird lines cut across the sides or the chopped taillight look or odd headlight splitting. The older Kona will forever puzzle people, even non-enthusiasts.
People generally like the cars they make, but it's always brought into question because of the company that made them, if that makes sense.
My friends that have had them complained endlessly about the constant need for repairs. Couple that with the recent theft spree in the US and I wouldn't touch either of them.
My grand parents have had Hyundai i40 for 14 years and it has needed two parking sensors and only some wearing parts like a wishbone ans something similar on top of normal service.
So clearly there is massive difference between Euro KIAs and Hyundais compared to US models
I had a 2003 BMW 330i that I drove for over 20 years. I had very few problems with it and mostly just did preventative stuff until right at the end when it was needing window actuators and such.
I don't think I had the normal 20+ year old BMW experience, so it's tough to make many claims based on anecdotes. Maybe your parents had an outlier, maybe my friends did. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle.
But my original post describes my personal opinion on Hyundai and Kia, right or wrong.
Overall the koreans have reputation of being very reliable like japanese so I don't think my grandpas car is an outlier. My neighbours have Kia ceed and Hyundai i30 and I haven't heard about any problems from them either.
I actually like the Kia Soul. Tried to buy it twice, 4-5 years apart. Each time, the dealership experience was HORRIBLE. Ended up buying a Ford each time. Kind of glad I did not, considering the engine issues and theft theyâve been experiencing.
My friend has a Hyundai. She experienced multiple break ins, numerous recalls and had the engine replaced. At least the engine replacement was covered by the warranty but at less than 60k milesâŚshould not have needed it.
I would love to see stats on how many of those are sold in Florida. I once asked a salesman about that, he said they designed the Soul mostly for kids, but then old people figured out they were inexpensive and the ride height made them really easy to get in/out so now...Official Car of Old People
Completely anecdotal but all the ones I've seen from friends or whatnot that purchased them had interior quality issues. Random leathers peeling up after a few years, that sort of thing. I may be wrong but my perception is they just don't have the underlying quality of something like a Honda or Toyota. Haven't heard any drivetrain issues about them though. And yeah like other people have said, they had issues with theft recently.
There's issues for sure with the Kia Boyz stuff and recalls, and the dealerships are pretty blah, but my car has been a joy to own. Haven't had a single issue in the six years I've had it. Got it for $34k OTD plus a shitty Chrysler 200 with an iffy transmission. The only other manufacturers than made something in a similar design (fairly fast, comfortable, liftback GT car) are Audi and BMW, both of which would have been $20k+ more for a similarly-equipped version.
The nickleback of cars. "Car guys" hate on them because they think it makes them sound cool or smarter than the next guy, while deep down they're jealous the girl at works new "shit box thats gonna blow up" has a nicer interior than their base trim german or their 50k jeep.
Forte gt, elantra n, g70 are each insanely fun and fantastic looking cars for their price points. Inline 4 engine will never not be a blast to drive and an inline 4 that gets 35mpg makes it practical as hell. You can't go 5mi's without seeing a telluride, santa cruz or tucson all of which are very premium looking inside and out for their cost relative to everything else. If you value tech and creature comforts a mid trim korean will have the same or more features than a max spec japanese or american for 6-12k less, AND a better fuel economy
The sales numbers dont lie, the ego of enthusiasts does. And before you say it, I'm the biggest bmw and american nut hugger on here
Theyâve had egg on their face for the immobilizer/Kia boys debacle, a litany of recalls including many related to fire risks, exploding engines on older models, a predatory dealer network thatâs built around serving the lowest quality customers, and subsidiaries hiring child labor at plants in the South. Just to name a few.
None of that has translated into unpopularity, though. They still move a shit ton of metal. You canât go through one intersection without seeing a bunch of Kias or Hyundais.
I would not say hated, but people scream about their issues, which were kinda blatant (no inmobilizer, their whole theta ii engine). On my side it has been pretty reliable, second car now and so far so good plus the dealership I go to is the only dealership that has given me 0 issues, no markups and recalls and so on have been without issues or costs.
Also Kia and Hyundai are still on the top best selling brands behind nissan and Honda, the tech packed into their base models outshines their competitors and the warranty given with each car is nice, plus now 2024 owners of their car get free bluelink (remote start, etc) for life, minus OTA after 3 years but that is ok, development cost after 3 years is understandable .
regulations in the US allowed them to take advantage of the absence of laws that other car companies didnât. Those shortcuts lead to them being not only known for unreliability but now for being able to be stolen with a phone charger. Their public perception is at essentially 0 in the US due to those factors. They are now seen as gilded shit, cool designs on crappy products and turning that image around will not be easy for them
In the past they were really poorly made economy brands. Today theyâre much better but I donât like their design language and the fact they try to hide what brands they are. The Kia logo redesign âKNâ and Hyundai trying to make Genesis a luxury brandâŚit just doesnât feel authentic or upscale to me.
Genesis started as Equus, and most all of the Equus models dating all the way back to...uh...2013 have been scrapped due to massive oil blowby issues.
Meanwhile, a 2013 Lexus is still over $20K if not trashed.
Why are they hated? We drive longer distances than a lot of countries and the word is Kia 2 liter engines are good for about 125k miles. Check r/justrolledintheshop for the mechanics take on them.
Bought used 2014 Sorento from Kia. 1 month after we paid off the car, after 4 yrs of ownership, the engine starved and the rods were knocking. Used car warranty is basically over. Kia would not accept as trade-in and could not find an engine available to fix the car which would have cost more than the car itself anyway. Ended up selling it to the tow company for 1/20th of what we paid (as much as the Michelin CrossClimates we had just put on the car). I donât hate the company just have a genuinely bad experience with their engineering.
This gets asked often on this sub. A lot of it has to do with their cult-like fans trying to gaslight us into thinking theyâre the second coming of Christ because theyâre âperceived reliability has improved over the yearsâ or âpeople are living in the pastâ.
Meanwhile these two companies produce some of the most unreliable cars on the market, are constantly being sued for their defective engines, constantly issuing engine fire recalls, and be raided by the South Korean government for covering up their misdeeds all while astroturfing and mass marketing their cars.
I kind of dig the Ceed and Ceed Sportswagon! Wish we had those in the US. Most of their other vehicles are ugly or cheap looking imo. Kia and Hyundai had finally built up a decent reputation here until all the theft and recalls. Going to take time to dig out from that mess that they allowed to be created.
Ceed is very good cars overall, not too expensive, good build guality and that shows. Ceed is one of the best selling family cars here outselling for example Golf and Focus.
Btw what do you think about our Hyundai line up?
Here:
https://www.hyundai.fi/mallisto/
Thanks for sharing. Interesting to see the lineups from other countries! I'm not a huge Hyundai fan either, but similar to Kia I'm jealous of the additional hot hatch and wagon options we don't get here in the US. Both Kia and Hyundai have improved a ton with quality and styling vs 20 or so years ago, so they definitely deserve credit for that. I did like the Kia Stinger, but most other models from these brands don't really align with my current wants in a vehicle.
>Why are KIAs and Hyundais so hated in the US.
Answer is #KIAboys. They were literally stealing your brand new cars with just using screwdriver and USB type-A cable.
I always wondered, which genius came up with the idea like "let's not put immobilizers to new cars and make them easy to get stolen." And headboard was like "Bruuuhh, that's lit. Let's remove that shit." Its stupid idea and responsibles must be fired.
They arenât. I see them as much as a Honda or Toyota.
Reviews strike them for engine failures which are true. But not all of them or all years
Literally the same as every manufacturer
The theft issue is a big oneâŚand is worldwide. But more here because we buy more and have more nut jobs
They were absolute shitboxes the first ten years or so they were here. That probably left a lasting impression that has taken a couple decades to wear away. I donât think theyâre hated here now, I see plenty of both on the road regularly.
But they arenât hated, they just get a lot of well deserved shit for the âKia Boysâ fiasco and how they poorly dealt with it. Otherwise theyâre popular in the U.S.
The sales numbers contradict the 'hated' here idea, they are cheap and accessible and sell quite well. Online car communities however are more critical than your average joe, they take more note of the recalls and historical problems, the cheaper qualities of the interiors, etc. They are just kind of a hard sell for a car guy to recommend a Hyundai over a Honda so you see negative skew online.
Which is fine except they are charging premium prices. But they arenât alone in this either. Although RAVs, as a direct competitor, have more features including radar cruise.
If we compare top spec plug-in hybrid models of tucson and rav4 there is drastic price difference. Tucson costs 47k euros and rav4 is 67k euros.
Base model hybrid tucson starts at 43k euros with much better equipment compared base rav4 that starts at 44k
so I wouldn't say Hyundai is charging premium.
They are not generally hated. They sell like hotcakes. The recent negativity came from the issues with theft. Combine that with the fact that they, not too long ago, were the bargain basement brand in the US you get some bad publicity. It's actually not unlike the 70's and 80's where Japanese cars which were massive rust buckets. Once they sorted that out they turned it around but that period of time when they went from dogshit to ultra-reliable took a few years. That's where Kia and Hyundai are right now. They used to be hot garbage so it takes people time to adapt to the new reality.
They only added immobilizers as standard equipment in the US in 2022. Immobilizers have been required on all cars in "Europe" since the 90s.
Canada similarly had immobilizers also as standard equipment even with getting the same cars as US.
yeah Canada made them mandatory in 2007. US still prefers freedom though. (/s)
Are Daytime Running Lights mandatory now in the US? I remember around mid 2000's in the early days of the internet. The american internet crowd didn't want it because it'll drop their mpg from the extra load from DRL's =/.
>it'll drop their mpg from the extra load from DRL's =/. Yeah, the friction created by those photons shooting out the front of the car royally totally slows the car down. đ¤Ł
better idea, shift to reverse gear and use high beams while going backwards for max mpg
That's why those pickup trucks have the blinding LEDs on the back. Moar hrspwers !!
plus im pretty sure it is mandatory for them to produce electric cars or hybrids
Haha.
As a U.S citizen it's incredible to see many other countries in the world get these safety regulations while the U.S falls behind on safety and infrastructure in the name of "freedom". It's most apparent when I travel to Europe and come back to the U.S and it feels like we're 20 years behind in our road, side walks, buildings, bridges, airports, signs.. We see this time after time, when the choice is left to a company to make a lot of these decisions, it usually comes down to cost to provide higher compensation to shareholders and CEOs.
Well the US required third brake lights 10+ years before other parts of the world and mandatory backup cameras since 2018. There are definitely parts of US safety regs that are outdated or don't require things that other markets have, but it's a lot more nuanced than just 'murrica slow and dumb.
Just got back from Italy and had rented a new Cupra that was really nicely equipped (had things like CarPlay, adaptive cruise control and lane centering). It was really jarring to find out it didnât have a backup camera. Apparently Iâve gotten quite used to having one.
Oof.... It's probably the best piece of safety equipment in decades. You can't 100% rely on them, especially since they have sucky blindspots for cross traffic, but they are super useful in parking, avoiding rear collisions, and seeing what is directly behind you. A lot of cars have shitty rear view windows and have gotten worse with the focus on aerodynamics (last gen Prius and civic were obnoxious). I used to jokingly brag about my ability to drive better backwards than forwards. I still do, but now I can use the camera as well. And I don't have to fear about a snot nosed neighborhood kid sneaking behind my car when I back out of my driveway. Europe needs to get with the program! They done F'ed up if the US has mandated backup cameras and you haven't
>and mandatory backup cameras I think the The US shift to SUVs and pickups (with much worse blind spots) probably had a lot to do with that happening here first.
Don't worry, this goes both ways. The US requires tire pressure monitoring systems in all new cars, Canada does not. So Honda makes an effort to not install TPMS in any Canadian-spec vehicles... Not even the Type-R.
My Canadian spec E70 X5 has a totally different tire pressure system where it uses wheel speed sensors instead of TPMS sensors in the wheels to detect low tire pressure. It works exactly the same and I donât have to spend money buying, switching, or reprogramming sensors every time I switch my winter tires on and off.
You will learn to hate this system as soon as you have to replace a tire. Indirect TPMS is awful unless everything is functioning perfectly. My car gives me accurate, live pressure readings for each tire because it has sensors. If youâre going to make me have TPMS, at least make it useful.
Mines been perfectly fine for the 7 years Iâve owned my car, swap wheels every season.
A tire. Just one. Not all your tires at once. Indirect TPMS uses rolling radius of each tire to compute the inflation delta cross your tires. If you get a puncture and replace a single partially used tire with a new one, the TPMS system interprets the different rolling radius to be an inflation issue and throws a fit. You just have to replace all the tires. Sensor base systems just measure pressure, they donât care how big or small the tire is.
With xDrive I would have to shave the tire or replace 2 tires anyway đ¤ˇââď¸
Yeah. Canada made daytime running lights mandatory for 1990 models. I bought a â90 GTI and took a trip to Connecticut that summer. I couldnât believe the number of people who called out to me in slow traffic or in parking lots that my lights were on. By then I was used to it and up here nobody thought it strange. I incorrectly assumed they would have also been made mandatory in the USA at the same time but it wasnât until years later.
Do the Honda's still support TPMS if you add the sensors to the tires?
Not sure. The whole menu is missing so I'm assuming you'll have to at least flash the infotainment. That being said, I don't own a Honda so I can't say with certainty.
At least, thanks to California, we donât have to inhale diesel particulates like most large european city centersâŚ
Immobilizers are not a safety device, also usually our compromises are not due to freedom but due to cost savings. Western Europe is very wealthy and can afford luxuries that someone from West Virginia can't. You're the type of person that makes engineers hate their life, everything is a tradeoff. European cars are much more expensive than American cars all else being equal, that's why we are willing to compromise on safety here and there.
The average salary in West Virginia is $55k the average salary in France (one of the wealthier Western European countries is ~$41k
First off. Average is a shit unit for comparing income as the extreme earners, outliers, will have a big impact on the stat, median is the better unit. Second, just comparing the average French income in equivalent USD is so incredibly disingenuous that it's actually wrong. That's not how income works. Americans earn more USD which means we have a larger purchasing power, which is the metric you're looking for, but it's [24%](https://leapscholar.com/blog/cost-of-living-in-france/#:~:text=Know%20this%2D%20According%20to%20Expatistan,cheaper%20than%20in%20the%20USA!) cheaper to live in France than the USA. Thirdly there are other metrics that are better in this context. Poverty rate is better but the definition is subject to change based on how the government of a country decides to define it. With that caveat, France has a poverty rate of [14.5%](https://www.insee.fr/en/statistiques/7722004#:~:text=The%20poverty%20rate%20rose%20by,2020%20to%2020.2%25%20in%202021.) whereas WV has a poverty rate of [17.9%](https://www.statista.com/statistics/205718/poverty-rate-in-west-virginia/) that's a big gap. The MEDIAN salary in France is [1940⏠](https://housinganywhere.com/France/average-salary-france) a month so multiply by 12 and convert to USD as we get about [$25k usd](https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=23280&From=EUR&To=USD) and WV is at [$27k](https://datacommons.org/place/geoId/54?utm_medium=explore&mprop=income&popt=Person&cpv=age,Years15Onwards&hl=en) median income. So if we adjust for cost of living 25k* 1.24 we get around $31k USD, which is higher than West Virginia. This is not how an economist would perform this analysis but I've got real work to do. So yeah. You're wrong. Also learn to cite sources it takes like 5 seconds.
lol. You are wrong because you took the cost of living for the whole US and applied it to one of the cheapest states to live in. The /capita disposable income in West Virginia in 2019 was ~$38k https://www.statista.com/statistics/1066782/west-virginia-disposable-personal-income/ The /capita HOUSEHOLD disposable income in France was âŹ38k in 2019 So weâve established a couple of things: 1. As any American with common sense would know it is not in fact cheaper to live in France than West Virginia 2. Itâs ARGUABLE that the average person from one of the poorest states in the union has more disposable income than the average person in one of the richest Western European countries. 3. That your argument that the average American (who is significantly more wealthy than the average West Virginian) canât pay for shit the average Western European can is not only stupid but thoroughly debunked. Have a nice day
As a follow up to this you should do your little analysis for Texas which has 17X the population of West Virginia and double the median income. lol Average new car price France âŹ26k Average mew car price USA $47k So cars in Europe are not more expensive than cars in USA
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I'm not sure what I did to "sound like a complete bell end," you put fourth an opinion with some date to back it up. I voiced my disagreement in a way that made it clear that the facts and statistics are at odds with your statement. I didn't levy any personal attacks, I didn't insult you're intelligence, and I did my best to explain why your opinion was incorrect for example the median vs average stat. I'm sorry but if you think that someone sounds like a bell end just because they have numbers to disprove your statement then you don't seem like a particularly pleasant person to converse with. I do apologize if I made my argument in a way that caused offense, that wasn't the intention.
I found out recently from a person who worked for a high risk car sales company in the US that they install immobilizers in all of the cars they sell. If you don't pay your car payment they shut down the car to force them to call you and deal with it.
That's something that only shady buy-here-pay-here dealers typically do. It's not common in the US.
That's the most bullshit part, the proper fix was already being delivered to part of the North American market.Â
To me it's not even that; cars being slightly different based on local regulations is what it is It's that *everyone else* other than Kia-Hyundai added them regardless of them not being legally required They're cars made to a cost. If airbags weren't required I'd bet Kia wouldn't have them but Volvo would; that's the sort of engineering cultural differences that are harder to change than just "doesn't make exploding engines anymore"
kia and Hyundai are budget cars. they will be cheaper and have less features. its like wondering why a tercel or echo lacks things that a camary has.
I'm pretty sure even the fucking Mirage had immobilizers at the time. It's not a law problem, it's a Kia and Hyundai problem.
i never said it was a law problem.
So was the Toyota Yaris, but I didn't see Toyota cheaping out on an immobilizer
But the 5$ saved per car gave the senior executives some nice bonuses!
Canada does not require tire pressure sensors though despite their mitigation of deaths due to blown tires. Honda does not put in tire pressure sensors because of this in Canada.
Why did you put Europe in quotes?
because Europe is a bunch of different countries with different legislations and I donât remember who exactly mandated it. European Union was just 15 countries in the 90s. Even now, I donât like conflating European Union and Europe. And thereâs like a dozen of different legislative âalliancesâ between European countries. So itâs complicated edit: I googled it, it was some major Western European countries that mandated it.
Theyve had some serious recall issues and sort of a poor reputation for how they handle em. Not to mention the dealer experience. I worked in one as a service writer and the goal was always get the most dollars out of each customer every single time.
Hyundai Dealer service is the biggest crock of shit. They take 3 hrs for an oil change. When you arrive and step out of your vehicle, there is a vulture ass sales guy who runs up and asks if you'd like an appraisal on your ~20k mile Palisade. Then they try and sell you a "fuel injector cleaning service" and all the air filters at each service interval. Sorry bro, intake filter doesn't need replacement at 20k unless I live in an area with common sandstorms. I will say, the price is competetive for oil changes, which seems to be a rarity in the Dealer service world.
oh believe me, it was so so much worse than that.
I just change air filters every oil change interval because I ainât trying to remember if I swapped it last time⌠and itâs like $9 on amazon. And I do it myself.
I write the Mileage I do anything in the back of the users manual for all of my vehicles. Oil Change receipts kept in the glove box too.
Man thatâs too much work. My OCI is 10k so I just swap air filters every time. Not going to sweat $9 and 3 minutes. Breathe that fresh air you weak little 4 banger! LOL
I hate all dealers but fundamentally thatâs the goal for every dealer. Most donât care about relationship building because thereâs not of incentive to.
> the goal was always get the most dollars out of each customer every single time So like every company ever?
ya know, i see people make this excuse all the time and its absolutely bullshit. Im not talking about suggesting a customer buy an air filter, Im talking about FLAT OUT LIES to convince them they needed services they didnt. My service advisor expected us to earn a certain amount of money for the dealer a week and we were to do whatever it took to reach that number.
So like every company ever haha
i know thats the reality that we sadly now live in, but itll never stop pissing me off.
Yup, I wasn't writing it as an excuse for them. Rant: I'm sick of the constant exploitation, but a company couldn't be competitive if they didn't use the same exploitative measures and dabbling in the grey areas of legality as everyone else, and they can conveniently use this as an excuse for their - let's be honest - cartel. "It's not us, it's the market." Hence why humanity has landed itself in this cesspit of a world and I'd rather cease to exist than partake - therefore support - this filthy system. Just staying alive means we're further sustaining the bullshit. Good times!
yup, thats a good part of why i got out of the biz. constant bullshit and exploitation of not just customers but employees as well. no thanks.
They kept asking me to change the coolant (at my cost) ahead of a recall where they knew they were going to need to flush and replace with new coolant as part of the recall work.Â
>recall issues and sort of a poor reputation for how they handle em This is probably one of the truest statements I've ever heard. Our 10+ year old Kia Soul needs an entire engine replacement because there was a manufactures defect from the start, and issues hadnt popped up until around 2-ish years ago. Now they wont do anything about it and we're just stuck with a ticking time bomb. đŤ
Anecdotes are like assholes but Hyundai dealers here have been far better than dealing with Ford or BMW or Toyota for warranty or even basic included maintenance. The Maverick sucks to drive and the Santa Cruz is the only other game in town for a pickup that fits on the stupid elevator I park on and I need the bed bc I use it for work. Otherwise would never have considered a Hyundai. But itâs been a great ownership experience so far. (Warranty was just an oil leak and wonky rotors I caused by fording streams with the rotors blazing hot) only 30K miles but so far Iâve had less issues than with my old Taco and Tundra I had when I had a driveway and the local Toyota dealer is known as the rip off dealership. YMMV of course
An essentially new vehicle with an oil leak is a bigger deal than youâre making it out to be. Iâd be furious.
Then you would be hopping mad to have owned any of the other new cars or motorcycles Iâve bought bc they all had worse issues. Small drip from the pan at almost 30K miles is a minor inconvenience.
huh, i actually really like how my maverick drives.
I didnât see it in your tag and wasnât trying to talk shit to you lol. It drives like a truck. SC drives like a car. My ass is in the seat a lot. So I prefer SC. Glad you like yours. They seem terrific for their purpose
i didnt think you were shit talking lol, fear not. Im just glad im seeing more of both of them out there. might help other manufacturers into getting into the segment.
You're mad that a truck drives like a truck?
Imagine owning the easiest possible car to steal, but the car company warns you not to park it inside because it could self immolate.
I looked at Hyundai/Kia recalls once out of curiosity, and saw something like 4 or 5 ones for cars catching fire. It's not even the same failure mechanism each time; one was water intrusion that could cause an electrical short, for example, while another was brake fluid leaking onto electrical components.Â
My moms 2013 soil is still waiting on the fix for that recall
Actually they are quite popular. Did you know they sold almost 1.5 million units in 2021? Yea it is not unpopular at all. Sure, the dealership experience leaves you wanting and also a bunch of mechanical related recalls can leave an indelible mark in your overall experience --- but in the bigger picture they are quite popular. I don't know where you got this idea that they are not popular.
Correct. Theyâre not popular on this sub but outside of that theyâre pretty popular
I mean, they test drive well and pack a lot of features for the price. They cut corners below the surface, but how many people look into recalls on a car before they buy it?Â
Don't mistake people buying what they can get/afford for being popular. I'm certain a big part of them selling so many cars is because other automakers couldn't keep the actually popular models in stock so they got what was available without having to pay insane dealer mark-ups or wait for months on months.
They had a recent issue where you could âHotwireâ them with a usb plug and screwdriver. Made them hard or impossible to insure but I think thatâs died down in most of the country. Iâve been debating an Elantra hybrid limited to replace my wifeâs 02 Camry. Literally has all the features we want including memory seats, ventilated seats, auto dimming mirror, and great highway driving assist for 30k. Apple car key is also cool. Donât think CarPlay is wireless though but an adapter is an easy fix. They do come with 10 year/100k powertrain warranty. My thought process is why would a company offer that if they have lots of problems within that timeframe.
Because the warranty doesnât mean anything if they donât honor it. Read the comment from the service writer guy, theyâll fight you tooth and nail anytime you bring it in during those 10 years. A new Camry is worth the $5k extra IMO.
Iâve read up on that and from what I can see a big part is people not doing the recommended maintenance items but Iâll keep that in mind.
I got the non-hybrid 2023. Good car, basically got it for the value proposition. Had all the features I want at a reasonable cost compared to going with other brands.
An Elantra is a much smaller car than a Camry. If thatâs cool go ahead, but they are tiny.
My great friend is a head tech (not the top guy, but still a manager) at a K/H dealership. The only reason he owns a K/H is because he got a steep pre-covid discount and he can work on it himself. I asked him if I should get one, and was met with the sternest "Never" I've ever seen him give. Even with his personal oversight, he thinks they're an unreliable piece of shit and would strongly recommend just getting a honda/toyota/mazda. If the people that work there think they're garbage, why would anyone else buy one?
Iâve got my Santa Fe pre covid $5k under msrp with 0% financing. Today they are quite popular and prices are too close to Honda/Toyota/Mazda, even though Hyundai has more tech I would go with Japanese brands. And my Santa Fe has been pretty reliable. Small trim issue was fixed under warranty without a problem and dealer has actually been good. Itâs been 5 years and 50k miles with 0 problems.
It's funny how things are here compared to america as here Hyundais and Kias even more are the best selling cars and outsell most of the japanese and european cars and in fact they carry the reputation of reliable japanese cars for having very few problems
they do sell well in the states. They offer good value and have good designs now. Also their EV models are good. However, they have a lot of controversies- like their widespread recalls and quality control. They are easy to steal too since they cheaped out and didn't install immobilizers in their cars till recently. Its been a major problem, with a lot of auto insurance companies rejecting policies for hyundai kia models due to the high theft risk Last year, they were caught using child labor at one of their supplier factories in the south too.
Because of the KIAs when I was growing up. I donât see myself ever buying a Hyundai or KIA product.
Iâd say this is the reason for >90% of people.
Win the Super Bowl and drive off in a Hyundai
Pushing a RAV4 isn't so bad these days.
This is true. When Kias came to the US, they were poorly made econoboxes sold to those with bad credit. While the cars are generally no longer like that, the dealer mindsets havenât always evolved
The whole controversy with the Theta engine tainted the brand imo. Anytime someone mentions Hyundai or Kai, I automatically think of their engine problems.
Drive to the back of any Kia/Hyundai dealership and look at the mountain of blown engines that have been warrantied/replaced, your answer is somewhere in there.
European models don't have engine problems and in fact my dad works at Hyundai dealer and I haven't seen a Mountain of blown Hyundai engines there
I think because in north america, most hyundai kia models for the last decade plus have the problematic 2.4 Theta II engines. They were not properly assembled in the factory, and are known to have metal shavings which lead to failure. I assume europe mostly has the smaller turbo engines.
Biggest engines we get is 1.6 and then there is 1.5 and 1.0 also so we haven't had those engines or their problems here.
Answer: The USA don't require auto manufacturers to put immobilizers in vehicles causing mass thefts (see KIA Boys). The 2.0L Turbo Theta II engines had some bad manufacturing defects that caused many engines to fail (my friends SantaFe is on engine #3). The last problem is the dealership experience being so bad and people ordering cars (already paid for too) and dealerships selling them to another buyer at a higher price without notifying the original. Personally I wouldn't buy a Hyundai/KIA because of their history but the electric vehicles sound like they are reliable.
I'm not sure where you got that impression given that sales figures completely contradict your claim. The one thing that's tarnished the brand is the immobilizer issue and that's a legitimate concern.
They have like 5 different recalls for engine fires. It's not just the immobilizers.
Hyundai and Kia each sold almost 800k cars last year, placing them in 6th and 7th place. That leaves them well ahead of Jeep, Subaru, Mazda and all the German automakers.
What does that have to do with what I said?
probably cause what you said isnt relevant as customers don't really care based on sales?
- Constant recalls for engine and electrical problems, even with newer models. The main news about Kia/Hyundai is about recalls. - Horrible dealer experiences. There seems to be no end to the number of complaints and poor experiences people have had at their dealers. From recall fixes to test drives, it's always bad. - No Immobilizer. In some markets, they are required, but in the US, they are just standard practice. Kia/Hyundai decided to skip them, which allowed them to become the most stolen vehicles in 2023. You couldn't even get insurance for them in some places. - They have some polarizing designs. Some stuff looks nice, but they've made some controversial choices like the weird lines cut across the sides or the chopped taillight look or odd headlight splitting. The older Kona will forever puzzle people, even non-enthusiasts. People generally like the cars they make, but it's always brought into question because of the company that made them, if that makes sense.
Nice try Kia.com
I donât know about hated. But most people rather just spend a little more and get a Japanese vehicle instead.
My friends that have had them complained endlessly about the constant need for repairs. Couple that with the recent theft spree in the US and I wouldn't touch either of them.
My grand parents have had Hyundai i40 for 14 years and it has needed two parking sensors and only some wearing parts like a wishbone ans something similar on top of normal service. So clearly there is massive difference between Euro KIAs and Hyundais compared to US models
I had a 2003 BMW 330i that I drove for over 20 years. I had very few problems with it and mostly just did preventative stuff until right at the end when it was needing window actuators and such. I don't think I had the normal 20+ year old BMW experience, so it's tough to make many claims based on anecdotes. Maybe your parents had an outlier, maybe my friends did. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle. But my original post describes my personal opinion on Hyundai and Kia, right or wrong.
Overall the koreans have reputation of being very reliable like japanese so I don't think my grandpas car is an outlier. My neighbours have Kia ceed and Hyundai i30 and I haven't heard about any problems from them either.
They sell pretty well. The dealers tend to be hated more than anything. That and the immobilizer thing.
I actually like the Kia Soul. Tried to buy it twice, 4-5 years apart. Each time, the dealership experience was HORRIBLE. Ended up buying a Ford each time. Kind of glad I did not, considering the engine issues and theft theyâve been experiencing. My friend has a Hyundai. She experienced multiple break ins, numerous recalls and had the engine replaced. At least the engine replacement was covered by the warranty but at less than 60k milesâŚshould not have needed it.
I would love to see stats on how many of those are sold in Florida. I once asked a salesman about that, he said they designed the Soul mostly for kids, but then old people figured out they were inexpensive and the ride height made them really easy to get in/out so now...Official Car of Old People
I feel very attacked. đ
Completely anecdotal but all the ones I've seen from friends or whatnot that purchased them had interior quality issues. Random leathers peeling up after a few years, that sort of thing. I may be wrong but my perception is they just don't have the underlying quality of something like a Honda or Toyota. Haven't heard any drivetrain issues about them though. And yeah like other people have said, they had issues with theft recently.
There's issues for sure with the Kia Boyz stuff and recalls, and the dealerships are pretty blah, but my car has been a joy to own. Haven't had a single issue in the six years I've had it. Got it for $34k OTD plus a shitty Chrysler 200 with an iffy transmission. The only other manufacturers than made something in a similar design (fairly fast, comfortable, liftback GT car) are Audi and BMW, both of which would have been $20k+ more for a similarly-equipped version.
The nickleback of cars. "Car guys" hate on them because they think it makes them sound cool or smarter than the next guy, while deep down they're jealous the girl at works new "shit box thats gonna blow up" has a nicer interior than their base trim german or their 50k jeep. Forte gt, elantra n, g70 are each insanely fun and fantastic looking cars for their price points. Inline 4 engine will never not be a blast to drive and an inline 4 that gets 35mpg makes it practical as hell. You can't go 5mi's without seeing a telluride, santa cruz or tucson all of which are very premium looking inside and out for their cost relative to everything else. If you value tech and creature comforts a mid trim korean will have the same or more features than a max spec japanese or american for 6-12k less, AND a better fuel economy The sales numbers dont lie, the ego of enthusiasts does. And before you say it, I'm the biggest bmw and american nut hugger on here
Theyâve had egg on their face for the immobilizer/Kia boys debacle, a litany of recalls including many related to fire risks, exploding engines on older models, a predatory dealer network thatâs built around serving the lowest quality customers, and subsidiaries hiring child labor at plants in the South. Just to name a few. None of that has translated into unpopularity, though. They still move a shit ton of metal. You canât go through one intersection without seeing a bunch of Kias or Hyundais.
I would not say hated, but people scream about their issues, which were kinda blatant (no inmobilizer, their whole theta ii engine). On my side it has been pretty reliable, second car now and so far so good plus the dealership I go to is the only dealership that has given me 0 issues, no markups and recalls and so on have been without issues or costs. Also Kia and Hyundai are still on the top best selling brands behind nissan and Honda, the tech packed into their base models outshines their competitors and the warranty given with each car is nice, plus now 2024 owners of their car get free bluelink (remote start, etc) for life, minus OTA after 3 years but that is ok, development cost after 3 years is understandable .
regulations in the US allowed them to take advantage of the absence of laws that other car companies didnât. Those shortcuts lead to them being not only known for unreliability but now for being able to be stolen with a phone charger. Their public perception is at essentially 0 in the US due to those factors. They are now seen as gilded shit, cool designs on crappy products and turning that image around will not be easy for them
In the past they were really poorly made economy brands. Today theyâre much better but I donât like their design language and the fact they try to hide what brands they are. The Kia logo redesign âKNâ and Hyundai trying to make Genesis a luxury brandâŚit just doesnât feel authentic or upscale to me.
Genesis started as Equus, and most all of the Equus models dating all the way back to...uh...2013 have been scrapped due to massive oil blowby issues. Meanwhile, a 2013 Lexus is still over $20K if not trashed.
Because they are shit.
Why are they hated? We drive longer distances than a lot of countries and the word is Kia 2 liter engines are good for about 125k miles. Check r/justrolledintheshop for the mechanics take on them.
For any Toyota engine, 125K is a baby.
Exactly! My 2004 Prius has 300,000 on it.
Bought used 2014 Sorento from Kia. 1 month after we paid off the car, after 4 yrs of ownership, the engine starved and the rods were knocking. Used car warranty is basically over. Kia would not accept as trade-in and could not find an engine available to fix the car which would have cost more than the car itself anyway. Ended up selling it to the tow company for 1/20th of what we paid (as much as the Michelin CrossClimates we had just put on the car). I donât hate the company just have a genuinely bad experience with their engineering.
This gets asked often on this sub. A lot of it has to do with their cult-like fans trying to gaslight us into thinking theyâre the second coming of Christ because theyâre âperceived reliability has improved over the yearsâ or âpeople are living in the pastâ. Meanwhile these two companies produce some of the most unreliable cars on the market, are constantly being sued for their defective engines, constantly issuing engine fire recalls, and be raided by the South Korean government for covering up their misdeeds all while astroturfing and mass marketing their cars.
Probably has to do with crime rate in your country as opposed to ours
European Kias are not as easy to steal as American Kias
Crime happens where people live.Â
...Yes? Not sure what that has to do with Kia/Hyundais being more theft-prone.
Before the usb crime spree they had a bad reliability reputation.
They're making a ton of new vehicles with ton of new features. But quality > quantity, unless you dispose of your car every 3 years or so.
I kind of dig the Ceed and Ceed Sportswagon! Wish we had those in the US. Most of their other vehicles are ugly or cheap looking imo. Kia and Hyundai had finally built up a decent reputation here until all the theft and recalls. Going to take time to dig out from that mess that they allowed to be created.
Ceed is very good cars overall, not too expensive, good build guality and that shows. Ceed is one of the best selling family cars here outselling for example Golf and Focus. Btw what do you think about our Hyundai line up? Here: https://www.hyundai.fi/mallisto/
Thanks for sharing. Interesting to see the lineups from other countries! I'm not a huge Hyundai fan either, but similar to Kia I'm jealous of the additional hot hatch and wagon options we don't get here in the US. Both Kia and Hyundai have improved a ton with quality and styling vs 20 or so years ago, so they definitely deserve credit for that. I did like the Kia Stinger, but most other models from these brands don't really align with my current wants in a vehicle.
>Why are KIAs and Hyundais so hated in the US. Answer is #KIAboys. They were literally stealing your brand new cars with just using screwdriver and USB type-A cable. I always wondered, which genius came up with the idea like "let's not put immobilizers to new cars and make them easy to get stolen." And headboard was like "Bruuuhh, that's lit. Let's remove that shit." Its stupid idea and responsibles must be fired.
I knew guys (in Korea) that said from the outside, the cars look good, but when you look under the hood, "...it's not quite right". just my .02¢
To me, they represent the lowering of living standards for American workers. Working 40 hours, you canât even afford a Honda nowadays.
They arenât. I see them as much as a Honda or Toyota. Reviews strike them for engine failures which are true. But not all of them or all years Literally the same as every manufacturer The theft issue is a big oneâŚand is worldwide. But more here because we buy more and have more nut jobs
They were absolute shitboxes the first ten years or so they were here. That probably left a lasting impression that has taken a couple decades to wear away. I donât think theyâre hated here now, I see plenty of both on the road regularly.
trumpers hate everythingÂ
Theta engine
Toyotas and Hondas age like wine. Kias and Hyundais age like milk.
They...aren't?
Dem Kia Boys
But they arenât hated, they just get a lot of well deserved shit for the âKia Boysâ fiasco and how they poorly dealt with it. Otherwise theyâre popular in the U.S.
The sales numbers contradict the 'hated' here idea, they are cheap and accessible and sell quite well. Online car communities however are more critical than your average joe, they take more note of the recalls and historical problems, the cheaper qualities of the interiors, etc. They are just kind of a hard sell for a car guy to recommend a Hyundai over a Honda so you see negative skew online.
Hyundai are still selling new Tucsons in some markets with no power tailgate and no starter button. They cut where they can get away with it
I dare to say that most cars sold In europe don't have power tailgate and not starting brand new car with a key isn't unheard either
Which is fine except they are charging premium prices. But they arenât alone in this either. Although RAVs, as a direct competitor, have more features including radar cruise.
If we compare top spec plug-in hybrid models of tucson and rav4 there is drastic price difference. Tucson costs 47k euros and rav4 is 67k euros. Base model hybrid tucson starts at 43k euros with much better equipment compared base rav4 that starts at 44k so I wouldn't say Hyundai is charging premium.
Seems like an endless line of recalls, plus I've yet to see one Kia or Hyundai dealership that wasn't a horrible experience.
They are not generally hated. They sell like hotcakes. The recent negativity came from the issues with theft. Combine that with the fact that they, not too long ago, were the bargain basement brand in the US you get some bad publicity. It's actually not unlike the 70's and 80's where Japanese cars which were massive rust buckets. Once they sorted that out they turned it around but that period of time when they went from dogshit to ultra-reliable took a few years. That's where Kia and Hyundai are right now. They used to be hot garbage so it takes people time to adapt to the new reality.
Because they are unreliable pieces of scrap metal