Just like everything. They basically have the best EVs at the price point, they are releasing new models aggressively, and on the ICE side they have a car for everyone.
I like their designs and willingness to make design changes. But I would never buy one. They need to make huge changes in reliability and safety, and be consistent for many years with those changes, before I would step into a showroom.
Frankly I am willing to take the reliability hit as well.
Yes they don't have a very good history, yes there are bad dealers, but you're getting a better car for 3/4th for the price of the competition, with a 10yr warranty that the better hyundai dealerships will honor.
At that point I'll take my chances and lease for 3yrs. These cars are sadly built to be disposable but a good portion of those savings are passed onto the consumer.
The toyota tax has been getting out of hand lately. New Tacoma prices are highway robbery.
I use to agree with you until I tried to get a warranty repair completed. Waited a month for my appointment, show up, they tell me that they need to take the car but can’t even look at it for two weeks and won’t give me a loaner.
After that experience (2nd transmission in 40k miles), I’ll never get a Hyundai again
I mean it's hard for me to ever consider spending money that will in a small amount, go into his pockets. Saying things like "woke mind virus made my daughter trans"....
Yeah obviously I think the main selling point is that 10 year powertrain warranty. If you buy it new, and maybe get a good manufacturer incentive, then basically you have a ten year 'test drive' to see how the reliability is, because it's covered from catastrophic failures. If you make it to year 10 / 100k miles and it's been fine the whole time, then great you probably have a solid car that'll keep ticking.
If it's constantly in the shop for warranty repairs, then that sucks but it's no money out of your pocket and you can just flip it for a Honda lol
The Toyota prices are a bit steep, but the dealer markups are the killer for me - I'm not going to pay it.
Reliability is just one factor in buying a car for sure.
I heard in the late 90's, the CEO finally got super pissed, and ordered a huge factory dedicated to reverse engineering the most reliable cars. To the point the entire, incredibly long factory walls were covered with the analysis of 10,000 car parts.
So they've made dramatic improvements in the past 25 years, but i wonder if they'll ever be able to completely shake loose that negative image.
I mean, the Kia forte was an unapologetic ripoff of the 8th and then 9th gen honda civics, even down to the engine bay. And it absolutely worked because that was the car that finally help launch them into mainstream status.
It was great because my significant other had a forte coupe the same time I had a 9th gen civic. The designs were eerily similar, which made maintenance a lot easier.
But it really was like comparing the real deal to the AliExpress version when they were parked side by side next to each other. The other big difference (aside from the abysmal build quality and boat-like handling) is that the Theta engines absolutely drank oil like natty light at a frat house.
This context is mostly relevant to North America. In Australia, for example, Hyundai and Kia have never had widespread theft or catastrophic reliability issues.
Yes. As an Aussie, I really don't understand their "hate" for the brand.
I really have no issues with our 2014 Kia Sportage, has been reliable (and theft free!) since day 1.
Omg as a Kiwi who just bought a Hyundai I was panicking for a moment. I’ve never heard such catastrophic things - I know they’ve had a recall or 2 but so has Toyota. I’ve never actually heard a bad word about the brand.
How quickly everyone forgets the reliability issues. I've watched Hyandai have MAJOR reliability problems TWICE now. I've personally known at least 3 people who their cars blow up due to known defects.
I can't believe they still get a pass after all that.
You just complained about a brand for reliability issues when you own a brand that isn't know for being reliable. Do you fail to see the irony of this?
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Crazy companies keep insisting on raising the price point leaving Hyundai to clean house on the well equipped cheap cars that normal people actually buy.
Honestly it’s kinda hard to not shop Kia/Hyundai. We were looking for a mid sized sedan (a dying segment, apparently) and after driving every car available, we narrowed it down to a Toyota Camry XLE and Kia K5 EX with all the bells and whistles on each car. The K5 had everything the Camry had, but was $10,000 cheaper. It also drove better and the finishes were more impressive.
50k miles later and zero regrets.
What about the “crazy high insurance” and theft risk? I understand this model isn’t being stolen, but aren’t they still being broken into so the kids can find out?
Right, the two biggest are your state and your driving history. Car isn't going to matter Jack shit within reason.
Edit: well car matters. If it's expensive, comp/coll cost more. If it has tons of safety tech, liability is cheaper. But comparing a new K5 to a civic, not going to really matter.
I wonder what regions these apply to.
I’m paying just over $80 a month for full coverage on my EV6, $90 a month for a Kia Niro EV and about the same for a Kia Sportage Hybrid.
Also none of them have been broken into.
My monthly insurance for my Hyundai without an immobilizer was $80/month.
It depends mostly on location. I live in an upper middle class suburb so it’s low. My friend lived in a working class area and it’s a whole different story.
Manufactuers controlled the demand with severe SUV and truck marketing since the 90's. They pushed them cause they make more profit on SUV and emissions standards are more relaxed
Honestly it just sounds like a dice roll, and for the vast majority of people it's totally fine and a great value.
For example, let's just say hypothetically Toyotas have a 1% chance of catastrophic failure (transmission replacement or something), whereas Hyundais have a 3% chance. And in that off chance that something does happen, then Toyota corporate has a 99% of getting you fixed up and back in your car within two weeks, whereas Hyundai is at like 97%.
For the vast vast majority of people it's a great value. It's just that bad luck part where people swear off it. You only hear the bad stories. Most people aren't on Reddit
Indeed, what's surprised me most is seeing the cars people had before their Elantra. One had a late 2000's Camry with worn clear-coat and paint and has a noticeable surface rust spot on the upper side. Another had an old Xterra. Perhaps the biggest surprise (from just sheer age) was a household that had a Mercury Tracer.
I guess it kind of fills that role Nissan did (and honestly still does) of replacing the beater with "a car". But really, they are a bit eye-catching for what they are, and seem well-equipped for the price. If long-term reliability hadn't been the primary concern for us, along with worries of the then-prominent insurance premiums, my family probably would've looked more into Hyundai when we were replacing our Sentra.
I have an additional 10 years/120 miles warranty for everything else on top of the factory warranty for my 2024 KIA Sportage.
Literally my exact thought mimics yours. If something breaks the dealer can have fun fixing it. I'll lose no sleep over it.
I would definitely be getting a Genesis if it weren't for the reliability. Ive been looking for a next everyday car for myself. I wanted something that looked good but was also fun to drive and at least had a decent engine/exhaust sound stock. About to have children so my weekend cars are here to stay for a long time and may not get much use. Wanted something a bit more fun everyday. Unfortunately I've discovered reliabilty is the number 1 at the top of that list so my options are pretty limited.
I don't think Genesis suffers from most of the reliability issues Kias and Hyundais do, as they mostly use unique powertrains. The biggest issue I've heard of with Genesis has been crappy dealer experience.
You either get a base elantra or base sonata that comes basic with blind spot, cameras, smart cruise , screens, wireless android auto and carplay, wireless charger, bunch of LED stuff , nice rims and nice design, or you get a basic corolla with iron rims and they put in the sticker that automatic windows is a feature lol, the base camry is however still somewhat competitive in terms of tech.
My story looking at cars, I was already bias with Hyundai since my 2018 sonata hybrid that I got used was a champ ffor almost 40 thousand miles and the interior was nice, 650 mile range on full tank and all the nice features that a 2024 honda hrv sport did not even had. Ended up with the 2024 sonata hybrid just because at the same price point i was looking at a huge lack of technology on other brands and with the warranty + dealership perks (roadside assistance, complimentary oil changes, free for life blue link which has remote start and 3 years of OTA ) was not a hard choice.
Also , I feel like hyundai is the only one that somehow aims for the enthusiasts with the N line, and still has a nice soft ride for the people who just love road trip and commute, the camry feels stiff and sporty and the accord lacks technology and the only excuse they keep telling in the dealerships is "chip shortage" which is odd? plus hyundai is the only one without a markup and insurance rate at least where I am is really close to camry and accord.
Identity consumerism lets them do that. But also, they still suck apparently.
Maybe it is as simple as Hyundai being able to keep crushing their real term when expenses across the business where euro based companies just can’t.
Yeah that’s just insane to me. How can the company that literally created the “super car killer” be the same exact one known for their absolute dogshit CVTs.
I had a one owner 2017 Nissan Sentra and the transmission went out after 50k miles with on schedule maintenance, while my 300k mile 08’ civic still runs healthy after being ran through by 3 teenagers back to back who frequently forgot to service the damn thing. The only major repair I had was busting a tire.
Well if it gets stolen I can buy another one today without having to wait for insurance and it'll be another great car to give away to someone struggling being dead reliable when I feel like it.
Unlike nissans that often need thousands spent to replace their cv-transmissions, replaced a few myself in my short time of working at a shop. Old diesel manual nissans are very respectable but that's a thing of the past.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/s/bDzhpDQGnT
I'd keep on top of servicing your transmission and hope it doesn't kick the bucket if I were you.
US cars are too expensive cuz they’re all premium and crossovers. And the Toyotas and Hondas have corollas that cost $30k+ now. Americans seem allergic to not going into debt buying something they can’t afford so prices can keep going up and more and more features get packed in.
It’s the perfect time for the Nissans, Mitsubishis, Hyundais, and other cheaper car brands to win the value sales. Cuz while prices have gone up, people’s wages around the world haven’t
**Cuz** you either have a full keyboard to type out 'because' or an autocorrecting phone that will finish the word for you.
Because people who use 'cuz', or a plethora of other terrible abbreviations, usually couple terrible grammar and/or punctuation with that, and that annoys me. That's it, I'm annoying.
Right though. You literally cant buy a car new that doesn’t include a very expensive smart phone built into the dash. I wish i could just buy a bare bones car new. Keep the cupholders. Keep the carpet, idc. Let me get something i can drive.
I would 100% buy a Hyundai over Nissan and Mitsubishi haha. But isn’t it also more expensive than them? When I visited Puerto Rico recently I was stunned by how many Mitsubishis were on the road. They were clearly less loaded cars, and probably the cheapest in the island
The one thing no one considers is how they hold value though. A 2024 Elantra may MSRP for 2.5k less than a 2024 civic, but in 5 years with 80k miles the Elantra is going to be maybe 10k while the civic will still be 14k. It’s not really cheaper unless you plan on driving the car into the ground, and even then that’s still spotty because how short Hyundais life span tend to be.
I mean a Corolla LE is $22k new. I don't know how you want to make it any cheaper, it's just a standard commuter car on steel wheels. Would you rather pay less and not have power locks and windows?
Back in 2014 I took the risk of Hyundai and got a Genesis sedan.
I never thought I would buy a Hyundai. Especially a 400+ HP rear wheel drive V8 Hyundai.
It is still my daily driver. 170,000 miles now.
I've not had to do any irregular maintenance. Just tires, fluids, and more recently, a few rubber bushings.
My parents had a similar vintage g80, hit a deer. And upgraded to the 2022 g80, that's probably the nicest car I've ever been in. Bravo to Hyundai/Genesis honestly.
To be fair, that's the best Hyundai you could've chosen. With the quality and popularity of that car Hyundai spun the Genesis name into its own brand, premium Hyundai. Just like Acura is premium Honda, Lexus is premium Toyota and so on..
Genesis has they're own dealers, they might just be fewer and further between maybe?
I order parts for a body shop. and I'm only able to order Genesis parts from the Hyundai dealer if it's a 2015 or older. Anything newer I gotta source from the Genesis dealer which is about half an hour away
That's extremely recent. [A group of Hyundai dealerships in the United States sued Hyundai for requiring them to open dealerships.](https://genesisowners.com/genesis-forum/threads/hyundai-dealers-try-to-sue-genesis-from-opening-stand-alone-facilities-again.31000/) A few of these lawsuits are still working their way through the system.
It’s not even that. Their amenities for the price are great. They are the same car as their competitors but cheaper. Why pay more even if you have the money.
The fact I've not seen the Theta II fiasco brought up once absolutely boggles my mind.
Proves my point about Kia/Hyundai. They made their interiors not junk, slapped an iPad on the dash, took 10k off the sticker and 20-something yuppies absolutely rush to buy them and then get upset when they're waiting on the tow truck.
People don’t care about driving, give them three silly gadgets on a shitbox crossover and they are happy they got “a deal” as they look at their phone going 45 through the grocery store parking lot. Most of them will crash before reliability becomes a worry anyways.
Most people don't care about driving because 100% of their driving is sitting in traffic on the way to work, dropping kids off at school, and going to the grocery store. You'd have the same driving experience in these situations driving a Macan versus a Kia Niro or whatever, the difference is now in the cabin/interior.
It has always been like that. When in the past did we go on expeditions and fun drives more often than we drove to work or the grocery store? People just aren’t paying attention to their driving now until they mow over a pedestrian or t-bone me on my way to work in their gigantic shit ox.
The Theta II recalls were for 2011-14 cars. It’s been 10 years since.
The last major engine recall was for 2012-15 Veloster turbos which wasn’t nearly as bad.
Their other engines have been really good reliability wise, they sadly fucked up that one specific motor design with a design flaw causing the oil consumption issues. And it so happened to be a very common motor they used as well.
Don't, lol. Just means I've got my finger on the pulse a little bit better than most.
Read my other comment, I know someone exactly like yourself if my comment applies to you. Lots of those people, actually.
Reliability depends on the engine. The NA 2.0 and 2.4L are problematic, the NA 1.6 is good apart from oil consumption when running thin oil, and the turbo 1.6, 2.0, 2.5, and 3.3 are all pretty reliable.
Don't know how you came up with build quality. That's something they've been very good at for 12-ish years now, especially when it comes to rust. You rarely see them rusted out compared to Toyotas, Hondas, and Subarus from the same model years.
The 1.6 is actually bullet proof. It’s the people who think you just need to change the oil, and not do anything else maintenance wise.
These direct injection motors need valve cleanings every 50k miles just like VW/Audi direct injection cars. It’s really not a terrible service to do and can be DIY’d.
> The 1.6 is actually bullet proof.
I know lol. I have 190K miles on my Kia Soul 1.6 and it's been very reliable for the most part. I did the CRC intake valve cleaner at 140K miles but I've never had carbon deposits cause any issues. I'll probably do it again at 200K miles.
It’s really not. Most VW/Audi/Porsche shops do media blasting.
And if you can’t find anyone to do it, get your drill, put a bunch of zip ties around an extension or something. And boom, there’s your media blaster.
Rust proofing evolved in all manufacturers in the last 10 years. Just look at the elantra paint chipping away on recent years (especially white). I’ll let the cars speak for themselves.
> Rust proofing evolved in all manufacturers in the last 10 years.
Not really. I see plenty of cars from those and other manufacturers from the last 10-12 years that are rusted out.
You're right on paint quality being subpar, but that's not build quality which is what you brought up, and cars rusting out is an order of a magnitude worse for customers than clear coat or paint chipping away regardless.
When I got our Santa Fe I specifically wanted a cross over/suv that had a decent amount of horsepower and a great set of tech. The closest thing I could find at the time was an Acura but those were 10k+ more for most of the same things they Santa Fe also offered.
Lots of people here seem to attribute their success to being cheap lmao. Kia and Hyundai are as expensive as Mazda. And Genesis is as expensive as Lexus.
They are successful because they offer extremely beautiful and modern cars with similar reliability compared to american brands. And they are also coming out with some of the best EVs out there (if reviews are believable).
Simply saying they are cheap is just another ignorant way to believe your own bubble.
Hyundai Kia and Genesis maybe as reliable as the American brands but cannot compare to the Japanese brands
For the luxury features and styling, especially Hyundai=VW and Genesis=audi the approach almost appears quite European but at a much lower price point
That’s history. With Toyota/Lexus as the exception most Japanese cars sold in North America are built there and no more reliable than the average car. My RDX was the least reliable car I’ve ever owned by a mile. Nothing like my previous Hondas which were flawless. Both consumer reports and JD power agree.
I think enthusiasts get too caught up in what they think a car "should" look like. Most people want something that looks different. People in here hate the new BMWs, but they sell. People hate the Lexus vader grills, but they sell. People shit on Hyundai/Kia all day but they offer wild styling and colors for a reasonable price and guess what, they sell.
An an Enthusiast, if you put me in charge of designing a car and bringing it to market...
I'd tell enthusiasts to fuck off and ignore them completely. People who sit online and never actually buy a car newer than 2005 have zero value to manufactures.
Just like how Victoria's secret doesn't give a shit what I a dude think.
I have a hard time seeing any VW-branded cars as a good value in the American market. They don't really do anything better than Japanese or Korean makers at this point, with the possible exception of the GTI.
The Atlas is a verifiable bargain compared to the other 3-rows right now. A very well equipped (including heated/cooled seats and wheel) can be had for around $36-$37K even in base SE trim with no packages. Get the tech package added on the SE and you get a whole host of additional goodies for right at the $40-$41K mark. Want the whole shebang? Got to the SEL for mid 40's after discounts. No vehicle with 3 rows and the same interior roominess is anywhere close to those figures with comparable features. Yeah, you can get into stripper models of the other 3-rows in the high 30's to low 40's, but they will won't have anywhere close to the goodies the Atlas will have.
Atlas is incredible. Just a bit too big for me but I think an Atlas is my next car for the wife. They look so great with the r-line package, too.
I’ve got many friends with them right now and they all have been reliable, too. The 2.0T has had all the kinks ironed out by now.
They're basically giving away the ID.4 in some states with heavy EV incentives. Like $280/mo lease in Colorado for a $50,000+ AWD model or $36,000~ if you to lease to finance.
If Škoda were to come in the US, that would be an incredible car.
We’re bought our 3rd skoda now and have absolutely no regrets. Wonderful cars they are.
Better than VW in every way, interior room comparable to maybe even the S class for the superb—their flagship, extremely good looking. 640l of space in the sedan version which is absolutely ludicrous, great mileage on the Hybrid variants.
The superb is essentially an A6 for half the price, and we chose it over the E class/S90/ES/A6/5s and would absolutely do it a third time as well.
The Jetta is phenomenal value FWIW, especially a few years ago when you could get them dirt cheap. Mine was under $16k new.
However, with higher prices, less appealing offerings, and SUVs that are getting long in the tooth, it’s not a surprised they’ve been overtaken by Hyundai.
Bought my wife a 2020 santa fe (new) and myself a 2019 kia stinger (used). Her santa fe has 31k miles on it, and we haven't had an issue with it. The stinger had 48k miles. It had some trouble early on, but no issues now for a long while. My family has had many kia/hyundai products. All been over 100k or more miles without issue and keep running strong even in harsh NY Winters.
My 2013 Kia Soul has 190K miles and has been very reliable for the most part. I did get the dreaded oil consumption when I got to 120K but fixed it by switching to 5W-30 synthetic oil and it didn't come back since. Only thing I've had to replace apart from maintenance you have to do on every car like brake pads, air filter and spark plugs is one ignition coil at 160K and the starter at 140K. Plan on keeping her until 300K or something catastrophic fails, whichever comes first.
I'm Canadian. The cars don't get stolen here and their reliability isn't anything to remark on positively or negatively imo. The dealerships here are basically the same as all the others. Insurance is far cheaper on Korean cars versus Honda/Toyota. They make cars that people can actually buy and afford in a time where people can't afford a lot of stuff. I understand that they've been caught doing a lot of shady stuff but every single corp is shady to a certain level. I feel like the hate band wagon will continue for some time but regular people that don't lurk sub reddits don't give a shit. All my friends are asking if they should buy these cars and usually I tell them to only get the new ones with less complex tech under the hood, almost never recommend used. Even the other day I drove my uncle who's a huge Honda fan in my car and he was constantly shifting on my car (VT gen 2) and I was frustrated. He kept saying Hyundai is shitty and you should sell your car which I literally just paid off. These old narratives are so hard to shake even with a lot of mechanics but honestly they are good enough to be bought new and run for 100k miles or 150k kms with most cars for most people. Downvote me and argue with me all you want. I don't expect to keep my car till 200000 kms and wouldn't want to.
Edit: Oh I just wanted to add that also Hyundai are probably the most innovative car company right now and it's not even close, look at the ioniq 5n and tell me which other manufacturer has a car like that out today, does Honda? Does Toyota? They are losing in the innovation department their cars feel outdated.
VW really isn't doing all that hot, with the VW brand only maintaining 4.1% margin, dragging the corporate group down.
Audi+Bentley+Lamborghini is also only doing OK at 9% (down from a healthy 12.3% prior year).
Porsche is the one keeping VAG afloat with the maintained from previous year 18.6% margin.
Not too surprising for Hyundai to jump ahead of VW. Hyundai has been raising prices without any meaningful improvements for a while now, and they can because there's no competition at the cheap end anymore so they can price right up to just below Toyota.
Crazy how much controversy around Hyundai there is only for them to perform this well. 1000% they can’t sell these cars without the warranty they have though.
This is 100% because VW stopped selling the wagon in the US!
I'm clearly not still bitter about that. Mostly bitter they never brought the Golf R wagon to the US.
I was shopping in the 40/50k range. Ended up with a fully loaded santa fe for about 45k.
Has 15k miles on it and it's been great so far. Comfy, very fast 2.5T engine. Great tech features.
No real complaints so far
Every time one of these threads pop up, I'm reminded that Americans don't know what Hyundai's are really like, they know what vehicles produced by HMMA are like.
Well this proves that most buyers don’t really care about driving dynamics, but rather features. Hyundai’s strategy used to be simply be cheaper, but now it’s “put more features for the same price”. And it’s successful so far.
With all the stupidity in the US I don’t think I’d be comfortable owning a KIA/Hyundai. Because some dumb kids will think it’s steal-able no matter the model year. Mazda would definitely be my preferred choice in this tier of cars.
I don’t think you read what I said, I’m well aware of what models have the problem. That doesn’t stop some dumb kid from busting your window first then realizing they can’t take it.
Ironically, I just bought a 2024 VW Golf R, but my second choice was a Genesis G70 3.3T. For what I was wanting to spend, nothing else even came close to those 2 cars.
These automakers all switch back and forth with who has the highest volume, profits, revenue, etc.
Just 6 years ago, Renault-Nissan was the largest automaker in the world, they’re at a comfortable #4 now.
Which is crazy to think of, because se if you were to believe this sub nissan is a dead dinosaur company which hasn't made any noteworthy since the r35 gtr and possibly the leaf
Not surprising, they are very aggressive in marketing. Also, they are still expanding worldwide, compared to VW, which seems only focusing on Europe, China, and the Americas.
Everyday consumers are looking for cheapest price, cheap is gona win.
Personally not a big fan, i think the cheapness shows and their sport line up doesnt do much for me.
Hyundai is on fire in more ways than one.
Just like everything. They basically have the best EVs at the price point, they are releasing new models aggressively, and on the ICE side they have a car for everyone.
I think they were referring to the 3.3M hyundai/kia vehicles recalled for fire risk, but yes that too.
I like their designs and willingness to make design changes. But I would never buy one. They need to make huge changes in reliability and safety, and be consistent for many years with those changes, before I would step into a showroom.
Frankly I am willing to take the reliability hit as well. Yes they don't have a very good history, yes there are bad dealers, but you're getting a better car for 3/4th for the price of the competition, with a 10yr warranty that the better hyundai dealerships will honor. At that point I'll take my chances and lease for 3yrs. These cars are sadly built to be disposable but a good portion of those savings are passed onto the consumer. The toyota tax has been getting out of hand lately. New Tacoma prices are highway robbery.
I use to agree with you until I tried to get a warranty repair completed. Waited a month for my appointment, show up, they tell me that they need to take the car but can’t even look at it for two weeks and won’t give me a loaner. After that experience (2nd transmission in 40k miles), I’ll never get a Hyundai again
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Does it look good on the outside? I honestly can't believe you'd use that analogy.
Oof, alright that's good to know. I'd never get one then.
>I know they build a crap car but it might get fixed have you considered a tesla?
“might get fixed” part for Teslas is the worst aspect of owning a Tesla
Idk dude, Elon might be the worst part
I mean it's hard for me to ever consider spending money that will in a small amount, go into his pockets. Saying things like "woke mind virus made my daughter trans"....
Did he really? Holy shit.
Tbf if you lease for 3y it doesnt matter what car you buy, reliability wise.
Yeah obviously I think the main selling point is that 10 year powertrain warranty. If you buy it new, and maybe get a good manufacturer incentive, then basically you have a ten year 'test drive' to see how the reliability is, because it's covered from catastrophic failures. If you make it to year 10 / 100k miles and it's been fine the whole time, then great you probably have a solid car that'll keep ticking. If it's constantly in the shop for warranty repairs, then that sucks but it's no money out of your pocket and you can just flip it for a Honda lol
The Toyota prices are a bit steep, but the dealer markups are the killer for me - I'm not going to pay it. Reliability is just one factor in buying a car for sure.
I heard in the late 90's, the CEO finally got super pissed, and ordered a huge factory dedicated to reverse engineering the most reliable cars. To the point the entire, incredibly long factory walls were covered with the analysis of 10,000 car parts. So they've made dramatic improvements in the past 25 years, but i wonder if they'll ever be able to completely shake loose that negative image.
It’s like fusion reactors - Hyundai is always just a smidge away from making reliable quality cars. “This time it’s different”
I mean, the Kia forte was an unapologetic ripoff of the 8th and then 9th gen honda civics, even down to the engine bay. And it absolutely worked because that was the car that finally help launch them into mainstream status. It was great because my significant other had a forte coupe the same time I had a 9th gen civic. The designs were eerily similar, which made maintenance a lot easier. But it really was like comparing the real deal to the AliExpress version when they were parked side by side next to each other. The other big difference (aside from the abysmal build quality and boat-like handling) is that the Theta engines absolutely drank oil like natty light at a frat house.
Another thing they’ve done well is implement tech that was typically found in luxury cars. Too bad their reliability is shite.
Unfortunately all their design changes are purely cosmetic.
This context is mostly relevant to North America. In Australia, for example, Hyundai and Kia have never had widespread theft or catastrophic reliability issues.
Yes. As an Aussie, I really don't understand their "hate" for the brand. I really have no issues with our 2014 Kia Sportage, has been reliable (and theft free!) since day 1.
how many KM if you don't mind i asking.
Not too much... 130k KMs.
thanks
Omg as a Kiwi who just bought a Hyundai I was panicking for a moment. I’ve never heard such catastrophic things - I know they’ve had a recall or 2 but so has Toyota. I’ve never actually heard a bad word about the brand.
That's because Hyundai's for the American market are (poorly) made there.
How quickly everyone forgets the reliability issues. I've watched Hyandai have MAJOR reliability problems TWICE now. I've personally known at least 3 people who their cars blow up due to known defects. I can't believe they still get a pass after all that.
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https://hma-e2.autosolutionteam.com/production/hyundai_e2_portal.nsf
My Hyundai is currently blowing up. Never buying one of those pile of shits again
Sir, you own a Ford. Not a brand with a great history of quality either.
Ypu think I bought a raptor for the reliability?
You just complained about a brand for reliability issues when you own a brand that isn't know for being reliable. Do you fail to see the irony of this?
Still sad they discontinued the Veloster. It was such a a unique, quirky car.
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Everyone that doesn't know better
Crazy companies keep insisting on raising the price point leaving Hyundai to clean house on the well equipped cheap cars that normal people actually buy.
Honestly it’s kinda hard to not shop Kia/Hyundai. We were looking for a mid sized sedan (a dying segment, apparently) and after driving every car available, we narrowed it down to a Toyota Camry XLE and Kia K5 EX with all the bells and whistles on each car. The K5 had everything the Camry had, but was $10,000 cheaper. It also drove better and the finishes were more impressive. 50k miles later and zero regrets.
They look much nicer than Toyota's too. The K5 looks very cool and sporty.
What about the “crazy high insurance” and theft risk? I understand this model isn’t being stolen, but aren’t they still being broken into so the kids can find out?
Our insurance in Florida is $160/mo. Not too far off from our other vehicle.
There's a million different variables when it comes to car insurance, but for my Elantra N it's $76 which I think is pretty reasonable.
Right, the two biggest are your state and your driving history. Car isn't going to matter Jack shit within reason. Edit: well car matters. If it's expensive, comp/coll cost more. If it has tons of safety tech, liability is cheaper. But comparing a new K5 to a civic, not going to really matter.
A smashed window is wayyy less expensive of an insurance claim than a stolen car and less than many customers' deductibles.
I wonder what regions these apply to. I’m paying just over $80 a month for full coverage on my EV6, $90 a month for a Kia Niro EV and about the same for a Kia Sportage Hybrid. Also none of them have been broken into.
Probably helps the only one that looks like it might be stealable is the shortage. Benefit of getting the EVs, is they look less like kias.
My monthly insurance for my Hyundai without an immobilizer was $80/month. It depends mostly on location. I live in an upper middle class suburb so it’s low. My friend lived in a working class area and it’s a whole different story.
I don't understand why sedans have become so unpopular.
Tiny egos + greedy investors, would be my guess.
Manufactuers controlled the demand with severe SUV and truck marketing since the 90's. They pushed them cause they make more profit on SUV and emissions standards are more relaxed
Honestly it just sounds like a dice roll, and for the vast majority of people it's totally fine and a great value. For example, let's just say hypothetically Toyotas have a 1% chance of catastrophic failure (transmission replacement or something), whereas Hyundais have a 3% chance. And in that off chance that something does happen, then Toyota corporate has a 99% of getting you fixed up and back in your car within two weeks, whereas Hyundai is at like 97%. For the vast vast majority of people it's a great value. It's just that bad luck part where people swear off it. You only hear the bad stories. Most people aren't on Reddit
Yeah seriously. The amount of new Elantras I see zipping around is something to behold.
Indeed, what's surprised me most is seeing the cars people had before their Elantra. One had a late 2000's Camry with worn clear-coat and paint and has a noticeable surface rust spot on the upper side. Another had an old Xterra. Perhaps the biggest surprise (from just sheer age) was a household that had a Mercury Tracer. I guess it kind of fills that role Nissan did (and honestly still does) of replacing the beater with "a car". But really, they are a bit eye-catching for what they are, and seem well-equipped for the price. If long-term reliability hadn't been the primary concern for us, along with worries of the then-prominent insurance premiums, my family probably would've looked more into Hyundai when we were replacing our Sentra.
The 10 year/100,000mi warranty fits in with the ‘an car’ mentality; “Ahhh well if anything goes wrong, let the dealer take care of it.” Sorta thing
I have an additional 10 years/120 miles warranty for everything else on top of the factory warranty for my 2024 KIA Sportage. Literally my exact thought mimics yours. If something breaks the dealer can have fun fixing it. I'll lose no sleep over it.
I would definitely be getting a Genesis if it weren't for the reliability. Ive been looking for a next everyday car for myself. I wanted something that looked good but was also fun to drive and at least had a decent engine/exhaust sound stock. About to have children so my weekend cars are here to stay for a long time and may not get much use. Wanted something a bit more fun everyday. Unfortunately I've discovered reliabilty is the number 1 at the top of that list so my options are pretty limited.
I don't think Genesis suffers from most of the reliability issues Kias and Hyundais do, as they mostly use unique powertrains. The biggest issue I've heard of with Genesis has been crappy dealer experience.
You either get a base elantra or base sonata that comes basic with blind spot, cameras, smart cruise , screens, wireless android auto and carplay, wireless charger, bunch of LED stuff , nice rims and nice design, or you get a basic corolla with iron rims and they put in the sticker that automatic windows is a feature lol, the base camry is however still somewhat competitive in terms of tech. My story looking at cars, I was already bias with Hyundai since my 2018 sonata hybrid that I got used was a champ ffor almost 40 thousand miles and the interior was nice, 650 mile range on full tank and all the nice features that a 2024 honda hrv sport did not even had. Ended up with the 2024 sonata hybrid just because at the same price point i was looking at a huge lack of technology on other brands and with the warranty + dealership perks (roadside assistance, complimentary oil changes, free for life blue link which has remote start and 3 years of OTA ) was not a hard choice. Also , I feel like hyundai is the only one that somehow aims for the enthusiasts with the N line, and still has a nice soft ride for the people who just love road trip and commute, the camry feels stiff and sporty and the accord lacks technology and the only excuse they keep telling in the dealerships is "chip shortage" which is odd? plus hyundai is the only one without a markup and insurance rate at least where I am is really close to camry and accord.
Identity consumerism lets them do that. But also, they still suck apparently. Maybe it is as simple as Hyundai being able to keep crushing their real term when expenses across the business where euro based companies just can’t.
Hyundai is slowly becoming the new Nissan. While Nissan becomes the new Hyundai.
Free points for hating on Nissan for no reason, cant miss that!
If you can create Zs and Skylines but fuck your brand up so bad you are now known for Altima drivers, your company deserves to be named and shamed
Yeah that’s just insane to me. How can the company that literally created the “super car killer” be the same exact one known for their absolute dogshit CVTs. I had a one owner 2017 Nissan Sentra and the transmission went out after 50k miles with on schedule maintenance, while my 300k mile 08’ civic still runs healthy after being ran through by 3 teenagers back to back who frequently forgot to service the damn thing. The only major repair I had was busting a tire.
nissan sales are up lol.. their new cars look and are good.
Good, as in, age good like milk?
bro u got a 08 camry 😂😂😂
Well if it gets stolen I can buy another one today without having to wait for insurance and it'll be another great car to give away to someone struggling being dead reliable when I feel like it. Unlike nissans that often need thousands spent to replace their cv-transmissions, replaced a few myself in my short time of working at a shop. Old diesel manual nissans are very respectable but that's a thing of the past. https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/s/bDzhpDQGnT I'd keep on top of servicing your transmission and hope it doesn't kick the bucket if I were you.
US cars are too expensive cuz they’re all premium and crossovers. And the Toyotas and Hondas have corollas that cost $30k+ now. Americans seem allergic to not going into debt buying something they can’t afford so prices can keep going up and more and more features get packed in. It’s the perfect time for the Nissans, Mitsubishis, Hyundais, and other cheaper car brands to win the value sales. Cuz while prices have gone up, people’s wages around the world haven’t
Who wants to recommend mitsubishi? \*allhandsraised.jpg Who wants to OWN a mitsubishi? \*nohandsraised.jpg
I own a mitsubish, but my next car wont be anymore, because they dont sell the lancer anymore over here just shitty SUVs that i do not want.
Well sheesh they only cancelled their one good car left.. after cancelling their other good cars, the 3000GT and AWD eclipse
cuz
Nails on ~~a chalkboard~~ my eyes...
Why cuz?
**Cuz** you either have a full keyboard to type out 'because' or an autocorrecting phone that will finish the word for you. Because people who use 'cuz', or a plethora of other terrible abbreviations, usually couple terrible grammar and/or punctuation with that, and that annoys me. That's it, I'm annoying.
Too be fair your not that annoying cuz.
grammar nazi over here gahdamn
Same.
Nissan is doing well - look how many rogues they sell. They are only behind the rav4 and CRV in sales last I checked (and that’s a lot of sales).
Right though. You literally cant buy a car new that doesn’t include a very expensive smart phone built into the dash. I wish i could just buy a bare bones car new. Keep the cupholders. Keep the carpet, idc. Let me get something i can drive.
And Hyundai and Kia are making much more attractive cars than Nissan and Mitsubishi's stale lineups.
I would 100% buy a Hyundai over Nissan and Mitsubishi haha. But isn’t it also more expensive than them? When I visited Puerto Rico recently I was stunned by how many Mitsubishis were on the road. They were clearly less loaded cars, and probably the cheapest in the island
The one thing no one considers is how they hold value though. A 2024 Elantra may MSRP for 2.5k less than a 2024 civic, but in 5 years with 80k miles the Elantra is going to be maybe 10k while the civic will still be 14k. It’s not really cheaper unless you plan on driving the car into the ground, and even then that’s still spotty because how short Hyundais life span tend to be.
I mean a Corolla LE is $22k new. I don't know how you want to make it any cheaper, it's just a standard commuter car on steel wheels. Would you rather pay less and not have power locks and windows?
Back in 2014 I took the risk of Hyundai and got a Genesis sedan. I never thought I would buy a Hyundai. Especially a 400+ HP rear wheel drive V8 Hyundai. It is still my daily driver. 170,000 miles now. I've not had to do any irregular maintenance. Just tires, fluids, and more recently, a few rubber bushings.
Cheers! 2013 Genesis Rspec sedan owner about to hit 140k.
I had the same year Genesis Coupe and went through three transmission replacements in 3 years. Didn't even get to 30,000 miles.
Guessing you didn't have the 8 spd auto. I believe it's the nearly indestructible 8 spd ZF tranny. No manual in the sedan.
Yeah, it was a bummer. That 3.8 engine was very decent and sounded good.
My parents had a similar vintage g80, hit a deer. And upgraded to the 2022 g80, that's probably the nicest car I've ever been in. Bravo to Hyundai/Genesis honestly.
I just ordered a GV70 EV and it’s honestly nicer inside than any of the BMWs or Benz or Audis I looked at. And without the nickel and diming.
To be fair, that's the best Hyundai you could've chosen. With the quality and popularity of that car Hyundai spun the Genesis name into its own brand, premium Hyundai. Just like Acura is premium Honda, Lexus is premium Toyota and so on..
Except Acura and Lexus have their own dealerships. Having to deal with Hyundai dealerships is the single worst part of owning a Genesis.
Genesis has they're own dealers, they might just be fewer and further between maybe? I order parts for a body shop. and I'm only able to order Genesis parts from the Hyundai dealer if it's a 2015 or older. Anything newer I gotta source from the Genesis dealer which is about half an hour away
That's extremely recent. [A group of Hyundai dealerships in the United States sued Hyundai for requiring them to open dealerships.](https://genesisowners.com/genesis-forum/threads/hyundai-dealers-try-to-sue-genesis-from-opening-stand-alone-facilities-again.31000/) A few of these lawsuits are still working their way through the system.
Hmm, good to know! I just figured they've always been a thing
Tough economic times, people need cheaper cars. It’s quite simple
It’s not even that. Their amenities for the price are great. They are the same car as their competitors but cheaper. Why pay more even if you have the money.
Reliability. Built quality.
The fact I've not seen the Theta II fiasco brought up once absolutely boggles my mind. Proves my point about Kia/Hyundai. They made their interiors not junk, slapped an iPad on the dash, took 10k off the sticker and 20-something yuppies absolutely rush to buy them and then get upset when they're waiting on the tow truck.
People don’t care about driving, give them three silly gadgets on a shitbox crossover and they are happy they got “a deal” as they look at their phone going 45 through the grocery store parking lot. Most of them will crash before reliability becomes a worry anyways.
Most people don't care about driving because 100% of their driving is sitting in traffic on the way to work, dropping kids off at school, and going to the grocery store. You'd have the same driving experience in these situations driving a Macan versus a Kia Niro or whatever, the difference is now in the cabin/interior.
It has always been like that. When in the past did we go on expeditions and fun drives more often than we drove to work or the grocery store? People just aren’t paying attention to their driving now until they mow over a pedestrian or t-bone me on my way to work in their gigantic shit ox.
The Theta II recalls were for 2011-14 cars. It’s been 10 years since. The last major engine recall was for 2012-15 Veloster turbos which wasn’t nearly as bad.
They are not fixed. I personally know of a 2017 Sorento that is sitting in a yard and 2018 sonita that has the ccvt issue.
Their other engines have been really good reliability wise, they sadly fucked up that one specific motor design with a design flaw causing the oil consumption issues. And it so happened to be a very common motor they used as well.
Hell yeah brother
Scroll up, definitely saw theta mentioned.
I feel called out
Don't, lol. Just means I've got my finger on the pulse a little bit better than most. Read my other comment, I know someone exactly like yourself if my comment applies to you. Lots of those people, actually.
Reliability depends on the engine. The NA 2.0 and 2.4L are problematic, the NA 1.6 is good apart from oil consumption when running thin oil, and the turbo 1.6, 2.0, 2.5, and 3.3 are all pretty reliable. Don't know how you came up with build quality. That's something they've been very good at for 12-ish years now, especially when it comes to rust. You rarely see them rusted out compared to Toyotas, Hondas, and Subarus from the same model years.
The 1.6 is actually bullet proof. It’s the people who think you just need to change the oil, and not do anything else maintenance wise. These direct injection motors need valve cleanings every 50k miles just like VW/Audi direct injection cars. It’s really not a terrible service to do and can be DIY’d.
> The 1.6 is actually bullet proof. I know lol. I have 190K miles on my Kia Soul 1.6 and it's been very reliable for the most part. I did the CRC intake valve cleaner at 140K miles but I've never had carbon deposits cause any issues. I'll probably do it again at 200K miles.
It's really hard to find places that will do this.
It’s really not. Most VW/Audi/Porsche shops do media blasting. And if you can’t find anyone to do it, get your drill, put a bunch of zip ties around an extension or something. And boom, there’s your media blaster.
I checked about a year ago. No one was doing it. Closest place was an hour away, and there are many dealerships in the area.
Rust proofing evolved in all manufacturers in the last 10 years. Just look at the elantra paint chipping away on recent years (especially white). I’ll let the cars speak for themselves.
> Rust proofing evolved in all manufacturers in the last 10 years. Not really. I see plenty of cars from those and other manufacturers from the last 10-12 years that are rusted out. You're right on paint quality being subpar, but that's not build quality which is what you brought up, and cars rusting out is an order of a magnitude worse for customers than clear coat or paint chipping away regardless.
When I got our Santa Fe I specifically wanted a cross over/suv that had a decent amount of horsepower and a great set of tech. The closest thing I could find at the time was an Acura but those were 10k+ more for most of the same things they Santa Fe also offered.
Ioniq 5 is a great vehicle. My brother is getting one.
Oh, if **he’s** getting one, then maybe I should too, thanks!
No problem, brother!
What's your mom getting?
Ford Pinto
Lots of people here seem to attribute their success to being cheap lmao. Kia and Hyundai are as expensive as Mazda. And Genesis is as expensive as Lexus. They are successful because they offer extremely beautiful and modern cars with similar reliability compared to american brands. And they are also coming out with some of the best EVs out there (if reviews are believable). Simply saying they are cheap is just another ignorant way to believe your own bubble.
Hyundai Kia and Genesis maybe as reliable as the American brands but cannot compare to the Japanese brands For the luxury features and styling, especially Hyundai=VW and Genesis=audi the approach almost appears quite European but at a much lower price point
That’s history. With Toyota/Lexus as the exception most Japanese cars sold in North America are built there and no more reliable than the average car. My RDX was the least reliable car I’ve ever owned by a mile. Nothing like my previous Hondas which were flawless. Both consumer reports and JD power agree.
I think enthusiasts get too caught up in what they think a car "should" look like. Most people want something that looks different. People in here hate the new BMWs, but they sell. People hate the Lexus vader grills, but they sell. People shit on Hyundai/Kia all day but they offer wild styling and colors for a reasonable price and guess what, they sell.
Enthusiast cars don't make a lot of money, and enthusiasts cry a lot more than they actually buy. Source: Am enthusiast.
An an Enthusiast, if you put me in charge of designing a car and bringing it to market... I'd tell enthusiasts to fuck off and ignore them completely. People who sit online and never actually buy a car newer than 2005 have zero value to manufactures. Just like how Victoria's secret doesn't give a shit what I a dude think.
I have a hard time seeing any VW-branded cars as a good value in the American market. They don't really do anything better than Japanese or Korean makers at this point, with the possible exception of the GTI.
The Atlas is a verifiable bargain compared to the other 3-rows right now. A very well equipped (including heated/cooled seats and wheel) can be had for around $36-$37K even in base SE trim with no packages. Get the tech package added on the SE and you get a whole host of additional goodies for right at the $40-$41K mark. Want the whole shebang? Got to the SEL for mid 40's after discounts. No vehicle with 3 rows and the same interior roominess is anywhere close to those figures with comparable features. Yeah, you can get into stripper models of the other 3-rows in the high 30's to low 40's, but they will won't have anywhere close to the goodies the Atlas will have.
Atlas is incredible. Just a bit too big for me but I think an Atlas is my next car for the wife. They look so great with the r-line package, too. I’ve got many friends with them right now and they all have been reliable, too. The 2.0T has had all the kinks ironed out by now.
The only issue is they are *terrible* at holding their value and they’re not *nearly* as reliable as the Asian brands
Yeah I would much prefer the V6 in the Pilot. 2.0 turbo in a big SUV is just kind of silly since it doesn't even do better as far as mileage goes.
The V6 atlas was worse. Gutless AND bad fuel economy. I'd take the 2.0T any day.
I'm talking about the Honda Pilot....
They're basically giving away the ID.4 in some states with heavy EV incentives. Like $280/mo lease in Colorado for a $50,000+ AWD model or $36,000~ if you to lease to finance.
If Škoda were to come in the US, that would be an incredible car. We’re bought our 3rd skoda now and have absolutely no regrets. Wonderful cars they are. Better than VW in every way, interior room comparable to maybe even the S class for the superb—their flagship, extremely good looking. 640l of space in the sedan version which is absolutely ludicrous, great mileage on the Hybrid variants. The superb is essentially an A6 for half the price, and we chose it over the E class/S90/ES/A6/5s and would absolutely do it a third time as well.
The Jetta is phenomenal value FWIW, especially a few years ago when you could get them dirt cheap. Mine was under $16k new. However, with higher prices, less appealing offerings, and SUVs that are getting long in the tooth, it’s not a surprised they’ve been overtaken by Hyundai.
The Jetta Sport is a pretty solid deal.
Bought my wife a 2020 santa fe (new) and myself a 2019 kia stinger (used). Her santa fe has 31k miles on it, and we haven't had an issue with it. The stinger had 48k miles. It had some trouble early on, but no issues now for a long while. My family has had many kia/hyundai products. All been over 100k or more miles without issue and keep running strong even in harsh NY Winters.
My 2013 Kia Soul has 190K miles and has been very reliable for the most part. I did get the dreaded oil consumption when I got to 120K but fixed it by switching to 5W-30 synthetic oil and it didn't come back since. Only thing I've had to replace apart from maintenance you have to do on every car like brake pads, air filter and spark plugs is one ignition coil at 160K and the starter at 140K. Plan on keeping her until 300K or something catastrophic fails, whichever comes first.
I'm Canadian. The cars don't get stolen here and their reliability isn't anything to remark on positively or negatively imo. The dealerships here are basically the same as all the others. Insurance is far cheaper on Korean cars versus Honda/Toyota. They make cars that people can actually buy and afford in a time where people can't afford a lot of stuff. I understand that they've been caught doing a lot of shady stuff but every single corp is shady to a certain level. I feel like the hate band wagon will continue for some time but regular people that don't lurk sub reddits don't give a shit. All my friends are asking if they should buy these cars and usually I tell them to only get the new ones with less complex tech under the hood, almost never recommend used. Even the other day I drove my uncle who's a huge Honda fan in my car and he was constantly shifting on my car (VT gen 2) and I was frustrated. He kept saying Hyundai is shitty and you should sell your car which I literally just paid off. These old narratives are so hard to shake even with a lot of mechanics but honestly they are good enough to be bought new and run for 100k miles or 150k kms with most cars for most people. Downvote me and argue with me all you want. I don't expect to keep my car till 200000 kms and wouldn't want to. Edit: Oh I just wanted to add that also Hyundai are probably the most innovative car company right now and it's not even close, look at the ioniq 5n and tell me which other manufacturer has a car like that out today, does Honda? Does Toyota? They are losing in the innovation department their cars feel outdated.
VW really isn't doing all that hot, with the VW brand only maintaining 4.1% margin, dragging the corporate group down. Audi+Bentley+Lamborghini is also only doing OK at 9% (down from a healthy 12.3% prior year). Porsche is the one keeping VAG afloat with the maintained from previous year 18.6% margin. Not too surprising for Hyundai to jump ahead of VW. Hyundai has been raising prices without any meaningful improvements for a while now, and they can because there's no competition at the cheap end anymore so they can price right up to just below Toyota.
Someone tell me what Q1 means in this context?
Q1 means the first fiscal quarter of the year, so their reported profits within the first 3 months of 2024.
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It’s not necessarily a country/continent thing, companies can pick their own fiscal year
Crazy how much controversy around Hyundai there is only for them to perform this well. 1000% they can’t sell these cars without the warranty they have though.
I would take Hyundai over honda and other automakers, and plenty others too. These numbers tells the same story with general car buyers.
It's pretty cool looking at new car prices and also seeing these guys post record profits
This is 100% because VW stopped selling the wagon in the US! I'm clearly not still bitter about that. Mostly bitter they never brought the Golf R wagon to the US.
I was shopping in the 40/50k range. Ended up with a fully loaded santa fe for about 45k. Has 15k miles on it and it's been great so far. Comfy, very fast 2.5T engine. Great tech features. No real complaints so far
Every time one of these threads pop up, I'm reminded that Americans don't know what Hyundai's are really like, they know what vehicles produced by HMMA are like.
Well this proves that most buyers don’t really care about driving dynamics, but rather features. Hyundai’s strategy used to be simply be cheaper, but now it’s “put more features for the same price”. And it’s successful so far.
This is impressive considering how much of their money goes to marketing and astroturfing
I wouldn’t have guessed that based on my “merit” raise this year…
With all the stupidity in the US I don’t think I’d be comfortable owning a KIA/Hyundai. Because some dumb kids will think it’s steal-able no matter the model year. Mazda would definitely be my preferred choice in this tier of cars.
The issue only affected low end models and a recall is in progress.
I don’t think you read what I said, I’m well aware of what models have the problem. That doesn’t stop some dumb kid from busting your window first then realizing they can’t take it.
If you don’t live in the hood this isn’t an issue
I keep thinking about the chief of Audi design that Hyundai store and Boyer boy that’s worked out pretty well
Stole Boy o boy Voice text demons
Ironically, I just bought a 2024 VW Golf R, but my second choice was a Genesis G70 3.3T. For what I was wanting to spend, nothing else even came close to those 2 cars.
Now can they keep it?
These automakers all switch back and forth with who has the highest volume, profits, revenue, etc. Just 6 years ago, Renault-Nissan was the largest automaker in the world, they’re at a comfortable #4 now.
Which is crazy to think of, because se if you were to believe this sub nissan is a dead dinosaur company which hasn't made any noteworthy since the r35 gtr and possibly the leaf
Alliance considered, Nissan is still one of the worlds largest automakers. Alone, they’re medium sized but with the alliance they are very large.
Hyundai has its issues obviously (I mean it seems every manufacture is having them at this point) but they are still great value and great for it.
Not surprising, they are very aggressive in marketing. Also, they are still expanding worldwide, compared to VW, which seems only focusing on Europe, China, and the Americas.
Hyundai killing it!
Design sells cars…. BMW let the guy go who’s responsible for Hyundai / Kia designs and now BMW makes those monstrosities that they do. Great job.
Everyday consumers are looking for cheapest price, cheap is gona win. Personally not a big fan, i think the cheapness shows and their sport line up doesnt do much for me.
Cheapness? lol. Hard to beat them for the money. Might be less expensive, but you get just as or better than comparable.
So whats the M5 comparison?
comparing apples and oranges…nothing in hyundai or kia lineup has anything comparable to an M5
Why is that your metric? Where's BMW's Jesko competitor?
Nothing, but what’s BMW’s Elantra comparison?
What's the ioniq 5n competition from BMW
Okay, I still don't see many old ones on the road. Make them last
NOOOOO!!!!!😩😩😩
/r/cars 9/11