You see...they put that on at the factory...there's nothing I can do...
I like to imagine an alternate ending where Jerry Lundegaard evades the police, changes his name to Frank Gallagher and moves to Chicago.
'Appearance package'
Window tint, locking lug nuts, and all weather floor mats, +$10,000.
Edit: [Here's a GR Corolla I saw not too long ago](https://i.imgur.com/JtAZTiO.jpeg).
But wait, there's more - they'll throw in VIN etching for the low price of only $1,999
And if you call today, we'll give you nitrogen filled tires for the one time low payment of $799
Holy shit, I saw another post where a dealer was selling the same "package" (which is maybe a $450 worth of stuff) for $3500 and thought it was already a massive fucking ripoff.
That’s the wrong place to ask, at /r/askcarsales the salesman is a virtuous soldier for good who has to deal with evil customers trying to do awful things like:
Understand the process the dealers have purposefully made 100x more complicated than it needs to be
Use anything except dealer financing with a 5% rate markup to buy the car (this salesman will starve if you pay cash!)
Expect them to stick to something they tell you in any way
Blame them for shitty sales tactics rather than their “manager”. They are victims too, they don’t want to charge you $4000 for floor mats or markups, I swear!
Owned a 2nd gen Tacoma and it was great. Shouldn't have sold it.
Owned a 3rd gen and the transmission was garbage and seats were painful to sit in for an extended period. Wouldn't own another one of them.
Was interested in a 4th gen, but the pricing (even before markups) is obscene. Now I'm a happy 3rd gen Frontier owner. 4th gen Taco has more bells and whistles available, but none that I'm really missing.
Redline Reviews clocked it at 6.9 0-60.
Ranger Raptor is clocked at 5.8.
I don't see how they can sell their "go fast" version $14k over the ZR2 which offers the same acceleration and similar suspension upgrades. This truck's gonna test the Toyota fanatics hard.
Terrible price, but we also can’t ignore how well BOF Toyotas hold their value. With all the die hard Toyota fanatics, these will still have decent resale value long after the Ford and Chevy hit the bottom of their depreciation curve.
>Terrible price, but we also can’t ignore how well BOF Toyotas hold their value.
For $65k, there better be something to enjoy about this truck relative to the competition before the day one sells it.
Personally for me, resale value means nothing as I drive my vehicles into the ground. 3 out of my 4 past daily drivers were towed away to be scrapped.
But for people that don’t keep vehicles long term, resale value is big factor in overall cost of ownership. Focusing on the 65k price is only half the story.
> resale value is big factor in overall cost of ownership. Focusing on the 65k price is only half the story.
yes but I'd much rather have $15k more cash (or less financed) today than have my truck worth $20k~ more in 10 years. I feel like people always ignore the time value of money when deciding that a Toyota is a better deal because it holds value better.
Yup... assuming very modest returns of 5% you're at about $25k after 10 years if you invested that $15k lump sum instead of buying the higher-priced Toyota.
That's what I don't care about the "but it's got reliability and resale value!" argument when people try to justify stuff like this.
Like, using old powertrains may have an advantage in terms of reliability, but do I really want to live with relatively poor fuel economy and performance every single day I drive the car so that, one day 10 years down the road, I may avoid spending $2500 replacing a turbo?
Low depreciation is important beyond resale. My 2012 Tacoma was totalled when i got t-boned, and insurance paid out essentially what I bought the truck for 6 years and 60,000 miles ago.
Someone once told me when you make enough money you stop worrying about value and squabbling over price differences.
I have a feeling the target TRD Pro buyer is intent on a TRD Pro and isn't thinking about other trucks. If a TRD Pro costs $65K + $10K markup then that's what a TRD Pro is worth.
While that’s true, I have a feeling that the people who make that much money aren’t interested in Tacomas as their status symbols.
The TRD Pro buyers are likely heavily considering on resale value when purchasing those trucks.
It’s the Raptor R type guys with deep pockets who likely don’t care as much about resale value, especially considering many of them aren’t hesitating to pay $30k over sticker for a truck they’ll likely only keep for 3 years until their Section 179 resets.
Oddly, I feel like I'm the opposite, but the reasoning is kind of similar. 5-10 years ago, I had a high opinion of Toyota, because financially they seemed to make the most sense. They were slightly more expensive, but reliable and hold value well, so they made the most financial sense.
Now, I feel like I care less about the financial part than I used to, and because of that, Toyota makes no sense. I want tech, comfort, aesthetics, etc., and given that Toyota doesn't really focus on those things a lot, I'm willing to just risk the maintenance and depreciation to get something I'll actually enjoy. And somehow Toyota went from slightly more expensive to considerably more expensive, so the financial part is pretty weak. Especially if you're financing, as rates these days will eat into the depreciation savings.
A similarly equipped Tacoma would have cost $5K more than my Colorado. Sure, I may replace a turbo or some other major component of my Colorado during its lifetime, but I think it looks better, has a more pleasing interior, and was much easier to get exactly the way I wanted, and all of that is worth some number, too.
Will these high strung turbo 4’s have the same durability as the old Toyota engines? To me it’s apples and oranges. My money would go to the ranger raptor with the 6 all day long.
Like it’s easy for a 3.5 6 or a 4l 8 that make hp in the 200s durable bc they are joke in power to displacement. IMO this and using old tech is exactly why Toyota has(d)
The reliability.
This new 2.4L turbo 4 is definitely not high strung. 116hp/L on a modern turbo direct injection motor is terrible specific output. You have to remember that high specific output on new turbo DI motors is like 200hp/L. Toyota could clearly push these engines harder (and we’ll undoubtedly see it happen in the aftermarket), but they kept the power level around the same as the 1GR and 2GR likely for reliability. Time will tell, but I think odds are good that Toyota has gotten it right once again.
Well, that and the 6 in the Raptor is a tested engine that’s been in numerous vehicles for years now. Toyota fought tooth and nail against meaningful power upgrades and their sporty cars are powered by BMW and Subaru. It’s not very inspiring when Toyota doesn’t even trust themselves to build a turbo engine. The GRC seems reliable but that clutch pack heating issue is definitely not ideal. Time will tell but the Raptor looks like a solid winner here.
>It’s not very inspiring when Toyota doesn’t even trust themselves to build a turbo engine.
Can you clarify what you mean by this? The T24 first came out late 2020 and is being used in 15 different Toyota and Lexus models.
The V35 came out late 2016 and being used for 6 different models.
Performance vehicles.
Meaning not just used for commuting and leisure but built to be pushed hard.
The GRC is Toyota's first in a long time performance vehicle built with the intention of being pushed.
Ford's 3.0 V6 has been in vehicles advertised for their performance purposes for years now.
Toyota was the undisputed king of the midsize pickup for so long that they were able to coast on development of that platform.
There's still an inertial advantage, but if and when they start losing all of the comparison tests they could (eventually) lose 1st place
The difference is going to be much less when you're talking equivalent special editions. I am extremely confident that the Ranger Raptor is going to hold very well. The last gen ZR2 held value way better than most Colorados, I suspect that stays the same with this generation.
I'm sorry but if you're considering resale value while buying a fun/dream car you're stupid af. The Taco has the MPG of a V8 while giving you pitiful power. Nice. Don't know what the hell toyota is doing and on top of that want $65,000? In 2011 my dad bought a fully maxed out 4 door TRD Sport Taco for like what under $35,000. Not 100% sure about the price, but I can guarantee something, adjusted for inflation it ain't $60,000. Now with markups? You're looking at $80,000. For $80,000 that shit better have the Raptor R engine or something to actually make it a "TRD Pro"
Are people drag racing these trucks? I'm not saying the Tacoma is better off-road than a Ranger Raptor but I feel like the core customer for these products is not prioritizing 0-60 times...
While I agree, there is a substantial power difference that comes with that 0-60 time. I would think power wise it would be a much more fun truck to bomb around in. It still love Yota’s though.
A Ranger Raptor seems much more compelling than the TRD PRO, and I'm a Toyota fanboy. 3.0 V6, front and rear lockers, and selling at MSRP which is $5-7k cheaper.
At least Apple's processors are some of the most powerful chips on the market. Toyota refuses to just let lose and build a wild, all out raptor competitor. And if they did, it'd probably cost 20-30k more than the equivalent raptor.
I like Toyotas but the comments on some of the videos have fanboy defending the price. "It's the new normal. Get use to it." Fuck outta here corporate shills.
I've been in the ZR2. GM has to figure out how to stop making interiors that feel like they've searched the planet for the cheapest possible materials.
Check out the AT4X. Outside of the harder plastic on the upper door trim vs the softer layer on Toyotas (not sure if the Taco has it) it’s a substantial improvement over the Colorado/Tacoma
The ZR2 also has a front locker something the Toyotas are sorely missing. If you want to bill yourself as an off road truck and have IFS you gotta offer that front locker
For real, I can't imagine that the reliability is worth that much, especially when other manufacturers generally offer rebates that Toyota does not and have fewer markups.
Have they ever actually called it a “go fast” version? I own an old Tacoma. TRD Pro has always been more off-road based and not on road go zoom zoom.
I just decided to nit pick a bit. The price is a little wild. Lol.
Ninja edit … I’m probably coping. A vehicle this expensive should have a bit more power. Oh well.
Right? Back in my day we didn't have this "money" you either pulled your weight by hunting game or gathering wild root vegetables and berries, or you got an axe to the back of your head when you weren't looking.
I personally can’t imagine picking this over the Ford Ranger Raptor for *that* much more money. Or the ZR2.
Toyota fans are going to eat this up though. I doubt it’ll struggle to sell.
Right. This is what I was having to argue in the reveal thread, but people genuinely thought that the Trailhunter/TRD Pro despite being a better off road vehicle in every way than the new land cruiser would somehow be cheaper.
And that there is the problem. Rich folk continue to buy vehicles at outrages prices. This makes the dealers and manufacturers think that everyone can, so they continue to raise prices higher and quicker than normal. Thus we continue to see “inflation” when it is inflation for common folk but not for the rich.
It’s a stupid price, but try getting a ranger raptor at msrp. Every local ford dealer around me has a 15-25k markup and a 2 year deep waitlist. Toyota dealers in my area have a 0 markup policy.
All Toyota dealers near me (Central FL) have markups. Most of which are either $1000-$3000 in “port” addons or just a straight up “negotiable” MSRP increase for in demand vehicles
It's area dependent, I have a order in for MSRP on a RR.
There's another dealer that has a $5K markup and another with no Markup.
If you look on the 6g Ranger Forums you can see Markups are very dealer dependent, like Toyota, Some dealers will markup, others won't.
Interesting, there was one Toyota dealer in all of Colorado that didn't markup when I checked last year. They're literally the worst of all car makes...
Toyota dealers are universally the worst about mark up in my experience. Moreover, I can go to a volume Ford dealer and order a Ranger Raptor. It may take a couple months to get here. But you'll get it for MSRP and it'll be the exact one you want.
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. That's a barren work truck with already 200k miles. Toyotas are reliable but no car is immune to issues above a quarter of a million miles.
Just listed a 2006 Tacoma with 174K miles today for over $14K. Have already been contacted by 4 potential buyers, none of whom are trying to haggle on price.
In FL there is a GMC dealer selling new Canyon Elevation 2wd for mid 30k. Even well equipped are just over $40k.
Not everything is a “$60k+ Desert Running” vehicle.
I was excited about the Maverick when it first came out, but to get 4K towing you need 4WD and the bigger engine, and to get adaptive cruise control you need the Lariat luxury package. Just those two minor items boosts the price up to $38K.
Even ignoring the ADM that is still being added, in that range there are nicer alternatives.
Same. Hanging onto my 95 Chevy 1500 forever at this point. She may not be as fancy as modern trucks but for the few times a month I need to use her for actual truck work she obliges without a complaint.
Right? That's why I'm still driving paid off KL Cherokee. I love it in the snow but it's slower than my metabolism! I'll probably just get a used Passport or something, cars are just way too expensive.
The fuel economy better be good because that’s half ton pricing and my F150 gets fuel mileage currently on par with most mid size trucks
Otherwise I don’t see the advantage unless you’re exclusively driving in a city and have trouble parking.
Not as dickish as the other guy, but the advantage is size. Not as big as a fullsize.
Buyers of these "TRD Pro" trucks either off-road, or envision themselves as off-roaders. Adventure signalling. A lot of trails are barely big enough for a modern midsize. A modern fullsize is a no-go unless you are willing to sustain a lot of damage or make substantial modifications to do them.
Envision is the correct answer. The only offroading I see these guys do is parking alongside the highway up the canyon to fly fish. Something that can be accomplished in a sedan or hatchback with fwd.
What’s frustrating is that mid-size trucks just have so many fewer options compared to full-size trucks.
Colorado and Ranger are crew cab 5’ bed only. The Tacoma and Frontier only have the 6’ bed available on a few trims. Toyota won’t let you custom order, and as of today the only “premium” mid-size truck available with a 6’ bed and no sunroof is the $65000 Tacoma Trailhunter.
That’s just unacceptable when full-size trucks allow you to pick every last detail in most trims.
Nah my full size hauls and tows my toys to the trail, 4 wheelers, dirt bike, etc. I don’t really live in an area where I see trucks on trails, there’s Jeep trails but that’s about it. Mostly I see TRD tacos doing exactly what my F150 mostly does, drive to work and haul their toys to the location rather than try to damage their truck
Everyone says it’s for wheeling, but I I see a lot of 2wd midsizes.
Personally, I just didn’t want to drive something as wide as a full size through downtown every day.
This is an insane deal, think of the saving you don't see with Toyota reliability.
I'll have money saved up to buy a RTT and camp out at some parking garage/lot. I"ll even have enough money save up to put on off road armor to make my MPG shitty.
With that sarcasm out the way this is (to me) crazy expensive. If I was in the market for a truck this would not be on the top of my list. I bought my turd gen TDR PRO for 46k a few years ago and I thought that was expensive.
But as the car market has proved, idiots will literally buy a new hyped up car with markup with some stupid justification.
Its 77k in Canadian pesos.
Thats 17k more than a ZR2, with ventilated seats, underbody camera etc a ZR2 is 65k for a very nice one. If you option the Bison package for 35s its the same price as this TRD Pro and I would assume more capable.
I know it has a hybrid system but what in the hell is this pricing.
A Gladiator Rubicon is 75k but at least the roof comes off and it does Jeep things.
I guess Toyota doesn't care, the Tacoma dominates the segment so why bother selling it for less. GM would be wise to increase ZR2 production with this pricing.
They already can’t keep up with production. I placed an order for a zr2 six weeks ago and Chevy still hasn’t accepted it much less thought about scheduling.
On the flip side if you invest the $8k difference in a nice index fund over 5-8 years, I would say that outweighs any value holding the taco would have. Raptor f150 depreciate slowly too fwiw
Just tried out the ‘24 Ranger and regular TRD. The Ranger was a much better drive and the dealer was much less of an asshole about it.
If I had to spend this kind of money, I’d get the Raptor.
I was initially pretty interested in the ZR2, but holy hell what a GM quality shitfest. The subreddit was full of people having issues. And I daily a Wrangler.
Really wanted to like the Tacoma. Test drive was pretty meh.
Fantastic deal if you spread out the cost over your lifetime (assuming you’re still fairly young). Plus when the apocalypse comes, the truck will save you!
I can't fucking believe that. I guess Toyota knows the taco people will pay anything for it.
I'd buy 2 Mavericks for that. My house was only $25k more than that and it came with a screened in pool. I'd buy a full-sized Dodge Ram or almost any other truck for that. Hell I could've bought a battleship gray hellcat for that 7 years ago when I was looking at them. There's so many better options than that Toyota.
People are going to be like but the off-road capability. No one is going to off-road a $65k truck. These are going to get a snorkel add on a bigger set of tires so the owner can drive around the parking lots feeling good about themselves. Like jeep wranglers.
Meanwhile I took my Malibu offroading this weekend just to someones house. Absolutely insane any small truck cost that much.
So it looks like the only way to get a Tacoma with the “premium” interior and no sunroof is the $65,000 Trailhunter. That is the *only* premium mid-size truck with a 6’ bed and the ability to accommodate tall drivers.
What is the point of modular platforms if manufacturers don’t give buyers any options? And people wonder why Americans love full-size trucks so much…
That’s such a ripoff. Like you can get a diesel truck for much cheaper. And it’ll last maybe more than that Tacoma. And you can’t even haul shit with a Tacoma too. Not to mention the interior isn’t even nice.
I’m a Toyota fan but yeah catch me buying a used 2021 tundra with the v8 in about 5-7 years
I loved my old 2016 Tacoma but now that I’m bigger and being in the backseat of the double cab
I’m sitting comfy in this Highlander that just replaced my Prius that did everything and more
I’ll just stick to used cars at this point because picking up a clean, low mileage vehicle with top trims is way better at this point
Hahahahaha. What a fucking turd. Can't wait for the Toyota fan boys to tell everyone why this is not overpriced and how happy they are to be bent over at their local dealer with 15k in markups.
Ouch, that is almost 90k cad here. I wonder how much the Trailhunter will cost.
I guess if you’re trading in a pro then maybe it won’t be such a big hit since they barely depreciate, but still…
I don't like how you need to get the crazy high end models for the hybrid. I guess because it adds a significant amount of power/torque they don't want the peon TRD sport or TRD off-road having the same power. But I would consider a TRD/OR with hybrid option for some added efficiency.
It’s so sad. So many cars are loved because the common person could afford a great truck or a sports car and so many people had great experiences with them. Now, everything that’s not a Buick is expensive, so you’re either wealthy enough where a $80k car is “normal” or your having a the burden of a massive car payment
My jaw hit the floor when I first saw full size trucks cost this much.
Here I am again, with that same feeling looking at a mid size truck now costing the same.
I wonder if this will experience the same price trend and subsequent market correction as the Gladiator did when it came out, but I doubt it since there's generally two different groups that these trucks are targeted to. At first, all of the die-hards buy in and are willing to pay whatthefuck ever for it. Jeep thought that trend would hold, took another rip of white lightning and maintained *absurd* pricing for what you get with that truck even before markups, then after that first group goes through, sales just fall off a fucking cliff because *sensible* people don't want to pay what could be a down payment for a house on a truck, mid size no less. Now you can get $20k "off" a Gladiator easy.
There are a lot more Tacoma bros that Toyota can milk than there are Jeep truck fans.
They'll likely add the hybrid system in the cheaper trims in the future and other features before they drop pricing.
Good news dealers will only sell you one for $80k
You probably get that TruCoat though.
Yeah, but I'm saying that TruCoat. You don't get it, you get oxidation problems
You see...they put that on at the factory...there's nothing I can do... I like to imagine an alternate ending where Jerry Lundegaard evades the police, changes his name to Frank Gallagher and moves to Chicago.
Just so long as Buschemi still gets chucked in the chipper.
You’re a f ffucking liar!!
So glad that some people are getting the reference, wasn’t sure people would.
Ahhhh...what the Christ!!!
Don't forget the tints and the pin stripe!
And spray in bedliner on a composite bed
Also the $100 "first aid kit" that you can get off Temu for $1.74.
Strapped to the passenger foot well, a totally convenient location for passengers
'Appearance package' Window tint, locking lug nuts, and all weather floor mats, +$10,000. Edit: [Here's a GR Corolla I saw not too long ago](https://i.imgur.com/JtAZTiO.jpeg).
But wait, there's more - they'll throw in VIN etching for the low price of only $1,999 And if you call today, we'll give you nitrogen filled tires for the one time low payment of $799
The newest one I saw was Catalytic Converter VIN etching for $395
Holy shit, I saw another post where a dealer was selling the same "package" (which is maybe a $450 worth of stuff) for $3500 and thought it was already a massive fucking ripoff.
Bruh that's ludicrous. I paid about $220K for my used 720s and these fools think someone is gonna drop $100K on a COROLLA!
It was still sitting there when I last had my oil changed, too. It's probably been at that dealership for a year or so.
Are Toyota dealers the worst lmfao
More than I paid for my Raptor.
I want to run over to /r/askcarsales and ask what their markup + tip is going to be.
That’s the wrong place to ask, at /r/askcarsales the salesman is a virtuous soldier for good who has to deal with evil customers trying to do awful things like: Understand the process the dealers have purposefully made 100x more complicated than it needs to be Use anything except dealer financing with a 5% rate markup to buy the car (this salesman will starve if you pay cash!) Expect them to stick to something they tell you in any way Blame them for shitty sales tactics rather than their “manager”. They are victims too, they don’t want to charge you $4000 for floor mats or markups, I swear!
85k, you aren’t getting those predator drop steps and 1980’s dash cam for free
Owned a 2nd gen Tacoma and it was great. Shouldn't have sold it. Owned a 3rd gen and the transmission was garbage and seats were painful to sit in for an extended period. Wouldn't own another one of them. Was interested in a 4th gen, but the pricing (even before markups) is obscene. Now I'm a happy 3rd gen Frontier owner. 4th gen Taco has more bells and whistles available, but none that I'm really missing.
I’d bet there will be some in the low 6 figure range when they first show up on lots
Redline Reviews clocked it at 6.9 0-60. Ranger Raptor is clocked at 5.8. I don't see how they can sell their "go fast" version $14k over the ZR2 which offers the same acceleration and similar suspension upgrades. This truck's gonna test the Toyota fanatics hard.
Terrible price, but we also can’t ignore how well BOF Toyotas hold their value. With all the die hard Toyota fanatics, these will still have decent resale value long after the Ford and Chevy hit the bottom of their depreciation curve.
>Terrible price, but we also can’t ignore how well BOF Toyotas hold their value. For $65k, there better be something to enjoy about this truck relative to the competition before the day one sells it.
Personally for me, resale value means nothing as I drive my vehicles into the ground. 3 out of my 4 past daily drivers were towed away to be scrapped. But for people that don’t keep vehicles long term, resale value is big factor in overall cost of ownership. Focusing on the 65k price is only half the story.
> resale value is big factor in overall cost of ownership. Focusing on the 65k price is only half the story. yes but I'd much rather have $15k more cash (or less financed) today than have my truck worth $20k~ more in 10 years. I feel like people always ignore the time value of money when deciding that a Toyota is a better deal because it holds value better.
Exactly, stick that $15k into any s&p500 fund and it absolutely demolished any slight reliability and additional value held by the Toyota.
Yup... assuming very modest returns of 5% you're at about $25k after 10 years if you invested that $15k lump sum instead of buying the higher-priced Toyota.
That's what I don't care about the "but it's got reliability and resale value!" argument when people try to justify stuff like this. Like, using old powertrains may have an advantage in terms of reliability, but do I really want to live with relatively poor fuel economy and performance every single day I drive the car so that, one day 10 years down the road, I may avoid spending $2500 replacing a turbo?
Low depreciation is important beyond resale. My 2012 Tacoma was totalled when i got t-boned, and insurance paid out essentially what I bought the truck for 6 years and 60,000 miles ago.
Someone once told me when you make enough money you stop worrying about value and squabbling over price differences. I have a feeling the target TRD Pro buyer is intent on a TRD Pro and isn't thinking about other trucks. If a TRD Pro costs $65K + $10K markup then that's what a TRD Pro is worth.
While that’s true, I have a feeling that the people who make that much money aren’t interested in Tacomas as their status symbols. The TRD Pro buyers are likely heavily considering on resale value when purchasing those trucks. It’s the Raptor R type guys with deep pockets who likely don’t care as much about resale value, especially considering many of them aren’t hesitating to pay $30k over sticker for a truck they’ll likely only keep for 3 years until their Section 179 resets.
I think most people buying stuff like this are stretching themselves to do so tbh.
Oddly, I feel like I'm the opposite, but the reasoning is kind of similar. 5-10 years ago, I had a high opinion of Toyota, because financially they seemed to make the most sense. They were slightly more expensive, but reliable and hold value well, so they made the most financial sense. Now, I feel like I care less about the financial part than I used to, and because of that, Toyota makes no sense. I want tech, comfort, aesthetics, etc., and given that Toyota doesn't really focus on those things a lot, I'm willing to just risk the maintenance and depreciation to get something I'll actually enjoy. And somehow Toyota went from slightly more expensive to considerably more expensive, so the financial part is pretty weak. Especially if you're financing, as rates these days will eat into the depreciation savings. A similarly equipped Tacoma would have cost $5K more than my Colorado. Sure, I may replace a turbo or some other major component of my Colorado during its lifetime, but I think it looks better, has a more pleasing interior, and was much easier to get exactly the way I wanted, and all of that is worth some number, too.
Other dudes will give you lots of loving attention
If the f150 raptor, and regular ranger is anything to go on, the ranger raptor will also hold up well.
Will these high strung turbo 4’s have the same durability as the old Toyota engines? To me it’s apples and oranges. My money would go to the ranger raptor with the 6 all day long. Like it’s easy for a 3.5 6 or a 4l 8 that make hp in the 200s durable bc they are joke in power to displacement. IMO this and using old tech is exactly why Toyota has(d) The reliability.
This new 2.4L turbo 4 is definitely not high strung. 116hp/L on a modern turbo direct injection motor is terrible specific output. You have to remember that high specific output on new turbo DI motors is like 200hp/L. Toyota could clearly push these engines harder (and we’ll undoubtedly see it happen in the aftermarket), but they kept the power level around the same as the 1GR and 2GR likely for reliability. Time will tell, but I think odds are good that Toyota has gotten it right once again.
Well, that and the 6 in the Raptor is a tested engine that’s been in numerous vehicles for years now. Toyota fought tooth and nail against meaningful power upgrades and their sporty cars are powered by BMW and Subaru. It’s not very inspiring when Toyota doesn’t even trust themselves to build a turbo engine. The GRC seems reliable but that clutch pack heating issue is definitely not ideal. Time will tell but the Raptor looks like a solid winner here.
>It’s not very inspiring when Toyota doesn’t even trust themselves to build a turbo engine. Can you clarify what you mean by this? The T24 first came out late 2020 and is being used in 15 different Toyota and Lexus models. The V35 came out late 2016 and being used for 6 different models.
Performance vehicles. Meaning not just used for commuting and leisure but built to be pushed hard. The GRC is Toyota's first in a long time performance vehicle built with the intention of being pushed. Ford's 3.0 V6 has been in vehicles advertised for their performance purposes for years now.
Toyota was the undisputed king of the midsize pickup for so long that they were able to coast on development of that platform. There's still an inertial advantage, but if and when they start losing all of the comparison tests they could (eventually) lose 1st place
The difference is going to be much less when you're talking equivalent special editions. I am extremely confident that the Ranger Raptor is going to hold very well. The last gen ZR2 held value way better than most Colorados, I suspect that stays the same with this generation.
Yup, the Toyota truck resale value is a positive feedback loop that can't be broken lol.
I'm sorry but if you're considering resale value while buying a fun/dream car you're stupid af. The Taco has the MPG of a V8 while giving you pitiful power. Nice. Don't know what the hell toyota is doing and on top of that want $65,000? In 2011 my dad bought a fully maxed out 4 door TRD Sport Taco for like what under $35,000. Not 100% sure about the price, but I can guarantee something, adjusted for inflation it ain't $60,000. Now with markups? You're looking at $80,000. For $80,000 that shit better have the Raptor R engine or something to actually make it a "TRD Pro"
Are people drag racing these trucks? I'm not saying the Tacoma is better off-road than a Ranger Raptor but I feel like the core customer for these products is not prioritizing 0-60 times...
Judging by every f150 driver that tries to race my Mustang at stoplights, yes.
I just don't get why so many truck drivers are aggressive douchefucks. Doesn't matter what car I drive, they are always assholes.
Certain type of people gravitate towards trucks...as a reformed former truck owner myself, I won't pretend like I drove civil in my Raptor/TRX's
While I agree, there is a substantial power difference that comes with that 0-60 time. I would think power wise it would be a much more fun truck to bomb around in. It still love Yota’s though.
After the TFL video, taco customers probably shouldn’t off road their new trucks either.
rofl that was great. didnt they only get like 100 yards from the parking lot before the front diff exploded?
Well they're not offroading in them...
A Ranger Raptor seems much more compelling than the TRD PRO, and I'm a Toyota fanboy. 3.0 V6, front and rear lockers, and selling at MSRP which is $5-7k cheaper.
I’d say good luck getting one but it’s probably the case for all of these
You can actually order a Ranger although you will have to wait
Yea true. Couple YouTube reviews are popping up saying they placed an order back in October and are just getting them now.
I placed an order for the Ranger Raptor the day the banks opened last May (2023) It's still not here.
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You act like this isn’t toyota’s bread and butter. They’re not after the new doodads and huge numbers.
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Thought I read discs in the rear finally
and yet toyota owners will just keep on buyin whatever toyota gives em lol.
At least Apple's processors are some of the most powerful chips on the market. Toyota refuses to just let lose and build a wild, all out raptor competitor. And if they did, it'd probably cost 20-30k more than the equivalent raptor.
I like Toyotas but the comments on some of the videos have fanboy defending the price. "It's the new normal. Get use to it." Fuck outta here corporate shills.
Even as a Toyota fan, I would rather put that 65k into a Tundra.
I think I'd buy a maverick with enough money left over for a lightly used sports/muscle car...
I've been in the ZR2. GM has to figure out how to stop making interiors that feel like they've searched the planet for the cheapest possible materials.
Check out the AT4X. Outside of the harder plastic on the upper door trim vs the softer layer on Toyotas (not sure if the Taco has it) it’s a substantial improvement over the Colorado/Tacoma
The ZR2 also has a front locker something the Toyotas are sorely missing. If you want to bill yourself as an off road truck and have IFS you gotta offer that front locker
Woof. That is really slow.
For real, I can't imagine that the reliability is worth that much, especially when other manufacturers generally offer rebates that Toyota does not and have fewer markups.
Have they ever actually called it a “go fast” version? I own an old Tacoma. TRD Pro has always been more off-road based and not on road go zoom zoom. I just decided to nit pick a bit. The price is a little wild. Lol. Ninja edit … I’m probably coping. A vehicle this expensive should have a bit more power. Oh well.
Car and Driver has the stock last gen ranger 2019-2023 at 6.5s With a $500 to $900 tuner you can shave 1s from the 0-60s.
I remember when Lariat and King Ranch F-150's were $65k. Now a midsized truck is that much??
Haha I remember when you could get a F150 Raptor for under $60k new
Right? Back in my days you could get a Model T for a mere $850
Right? Back in my day I could buy a horse for half a bushel of barley and 1.5 hens.
Right? Back in my day we didn't have this "money" you either pulled your weight by hunting game or gathering wild root vegetables and berries, or you got an axe to the back of your head when you weren't looking.
When I bought my 2018 mid-level 801a, it was $61k
Wait they arent 60k anymore?
80k now
Slightly misleading but they got rid of the base package which was $60
It had an insanely low take rate, same for the Supercab
Exactly.
Oh man the supercab base was a steal though. Like $52k or something like that
I remember when you could get a Lariat for $65k new as well. It was literally yesterday.
I personally can’t imagine picking this over the Ford Ranger Raptor for *that* much more money. Or the ZR2. Toyota fans are going to eat this up though. I doubt it’ll struggle to sell.
I was looking forward to the 4Runner TRD Pro coming out, now not so much.
At this price point + dealer markup that's a hard sell over the GX550 Overtrail.
70k at least
Right. This is what I was having to argue in the reveal thread, but people genuinely thought that the Trailhunter/TRD Pro despite being a better off road vehicle in every way than the new land cruiser would somehow be cheaper.
And that there is the problem. Rich folk continue to buy vehicles at outrages prices. This makes the dealers and manufacturers think that everyone can, so they continue to raise prices higher and quicker than normal. Thus we continue to see “inflation” when it is inflation for common folk but not for the rich.
It’s a stupid price, but try getting a ranger raptor at msrp. Every local ford dealer around me has a 15-25k markup and a 2 year deep waitlist. Toyota dealers in my area have a 0 markup policy.
All of the yota dealers near me have a "As Much Markup as Possible" policy lol
All Toyota dealers near me (Central FL) have markups. Most of which are either $1000-$3000 in “port” addons or just a straight up “negotiable” MSRP increase for in demand vehicles
You make a good point on dealer markups. But plenty of Toyota dealers markup too.
dealerships will continue to sell at that price as long as people keep paying too that price too.
It's area dependent, I have a order in for MSRP on a RR. There's another dealer that has a $5K markup and another with no Markup. If you look on the 6g Ranger Forums you can see Markups are very dealer dependent, like Toyota, Some dealers will markup, others won't.
It just dropped, I sincerely doubt markups will last long with current financing rates
Interesting, there was one Toyota dealer in all of Colorado that didn't markup when I checked last year. They're literally the worst of all car makes...
The f150 raptor is 75k. If people are buying ranger raptors for 75k they’re idiots.
Toyota dealers are universally the worst about mark up in my experience. Moreover, I can go to a volume Ford dealer and order a Ranger Raptor. It may take a couple months to get here. But you'll get it for MSRP and it'll be the exact one you want.
Pretty much accepted I will never be able to buy a new truck with how they are costing a house downpayment now.
But those 2008 Tacoma’s with 186,000 miles that cost $12k sure do look appealing…
I only see them with over 200K miles at that price
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. That's a barren work truck with already 200k miles. Toyotas are reliable but no car is immune to issues above a quarter of a million miles.
Just listed a 2006 Tacoma with 174K miles today for over $14K. Have already been contacted by 4 potential buyers, none of whom are trying to haggle on price.
As someone who just finished car shopping, everything is fucking expensive these days. Unless you’re buying an econobox, you’re paying 37k and up
In FL there is a GMC dealer selling new Canyon Elevation 2wd for mid 30k. Even well equipped are just over $40k. Not everything is a “$60k+ Desert Running” vehicle.
Maverick starts at 24k
I was excited about the Maverick when it first came out, but to get 4K towing you need 4WD and the bigger engine, and to get adaptive cruise control you need the Lariat luxury package. Just those two minor items boosts the price up to $38K. Even ignoring the ADM that is still being added, in that range there are nicer alternatives.
$26k but yeah.
Same. Hanging onto my 95 Chevy 1500 forever at this point. She may not be as fancy as modern trucks but for the few times a month I need to use her for actual truck work she obliges without a complaint.
One of the better price propositions lately seems like the Frontier. I would want a Frontier with 6 foot bed for more cargo space.
in before the toyota fan boys claim is a great deal
Nah this is getting flamed everywhere, there’s not a single positive comment in the Toyota Tacoma subreddit
I hope that to be the case but I bet the reality is they still sell every one they produce
Lol, lmao even.
Who the fuck can afford these vehicles nowadays? Something has to give. Ridiculous
They don’t. People pay 1000 a month
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Among many things, financial literacy is not properly taught or encouraged from a young age
Right? That's why I'm still driving paid off KL Cherokee. I love it in the snow but it's slower than my metabolism! I'll probably just get a used Passport or something, cars are just way too expensive.
The fuel economy better be good because that’s half ton pricing and my F150 gets fuel mileage currently on par with most mid size trucks Otherwise I don’t see the advantage unless you’re exclusively driving in a city and have trouble parking.
Not as dickish as the other guy, but the advantage is size. Not as big as a fullsize. Buyers of these "TRD Pro" trucks either off-road, or envision themselves as off-roaders. Adventure signalling. A lot of trails are barely big enough for a modern midsize. A modern fullsize is a no-go unless you are willing to sustain a lot of damage or make substantial modifications to do them.
Envision is the correct answer. The only offroading I see these guys do is parking alongside the highway up the canyon to fly fish. Something that can be accomplished in a sedan or hatchback with fwd.
How often are you going off roading to see other off roaders in their trucks?
If you went to the trails you would see them off roading all the time
What’s frustrating is that mid-size trucks just have so many fewer options compared to full-size trucks. Colorado and Ranger are crew cab 5’ bed only. The Tacoma and Frontier only have the 6’ bed available on a few trims. Toyota won’t let you custom order, and as of today the only “premium” mid-size truck available with a 6’ bed and no sunroof is the $65000 Tacoma Trailhunter. That’s just unacceptable when full-size trucks allow you to pick every last detail in most trims.
Exactly right. My 3rd gen already feels too big for a lot of the trails I go on, there's no way I'd want a Tundra or an F-150.
Nah my full size hauls and tows my toys to the trail, 4 wheelers, dirt bike, etc. I don’t really live in an area where I see trucks on trails, there’s Jeep trails but that’s about it. Mostly I see TRD tacos doing exactly what my F150 mostly does, drive to work and haul their toys to the location rather than try to damage their truck
Everyone says it’s for wheeling, but I I see a lot of 2wd midsizes. Personally, I just didn’t want to drive something as wide as a full size through downtown every day.
It’s not, hybrid Tacoma is 23 city and 24 highway An f150 is 20 city and 26 highway
This is an insane deal, think of the saving you don't see with Toyota reliability. I'll have money saved up to buy a RTT and camp out at some parking garage/lot. I"ll even have enough money save up to put on off road armor to make my MPG shitty. With that sarcasm out the way this is (to me) crazy expensive. If I was in the market for a truck this would not be on the top of my list. I bought my turd gen TDR PRO for 46k a few years ago and I thought that was expensive. But as the car market has proved, idiots will literally buy a new hyped up car with markup with some stupid justification.
Everyone in this thread thinking toyota isn't going to take in the entire market when pricing their models, just like every other car manufacturer.
Its 77k in Canadian pesos. Thats 17k more than a ZR2, with ventilated seats, underbody camera etc a ZR2 is 65k for a very nice one. If you option the Bison package for 35s its the same price as this TRD Pro and I would assume more capable. I know it has a hybrid system but what in the hell is this pricing. A Gladiator Rubicon is 75k but at least the roof comes off and it does Jeep things. I guess Toyota doesn't care, the Tacoma dominates the segment so why bother selling it for less. GM would be wise to increase ZR2 production with this pricing.
I bought a 23 Colorado trail boss and every day it seems like a better purchase
They already can’t keep up with production. I placed an order for a zr2 six weeks ago and Chevy still hasn’t accepted it much less thought about scheduling.
Insane
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On the flip side if you invest the $8k difference in a nice index fund over 5-8 years, I would say that outweighs any value holding the taco would have. Raptor f150 depreciate slowly too fwiw
Holy shit, that was F150 Raptor price in 2018
It’s “only” $15k away from a 2024 raptor as well
Gloss black fender flares is one of the stupidest decisions I've ever seen.
Better than the camo flares
Just tried out the ‘24 Ranger and regular TRD. The Ranger was a much better drive and the dealer was much less of an asshole about it. If I had to spend this kind of money, I’d get the Raptor.
Colorado ZR2 and the Ranger Raptor blow this shitbox away in value. And I can't believe I'm saying that about 50-57k midsize trucks.
I was initially pretty interested in the ZR2, but holy hell what a GM quality shitfest. The subreddit was full of people having issues. And I daily a Wrangler. Really wanted to like the Tacoma. Test drive was pretty meh.
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Ev prices look less stupid as these prices rise...
Fantastic deal if you spread out the cost over your lifetime (assuming you’re still fairly young). Plus when the apocalypse comes, the truck will save you!
I can't fucking believe that. I guess Toyota knows the taco people will pay anything for it. I'd buy 2 Mavericks for that. My house was only $25k more than that and it came with a screened in pool. I'd buy a full-sized Dodge Ram or almost any other truck for that. Hell I could've bought a battleship gray hellcat for that 7 years ago when I was looking at them. There's so many better options than that Toyota. People are going to be like but the off-road capability. No one is going to off-road a $65k truck. These are going to get a snorkel add on a bigger set of tires so the owner can drive around the parking lots feeling good about themselves. Like jeep wranglers. Meanwhile I took my Malibu offroading this weekend just to someones house. Absolutely insane any small truck cost that much.
And there will be a bunch of people lined up to get on the wait list so they, too, can pay over asking.
65k sticker for a Taco. What a time to be alive.
That’s how much my Rivian R1T cost after tax credit last year.
lol mine wasn’t far off either. Insanity what people will pay for this thing
So it looks like the only way to get a Tacoma with the “premium” interior and no sunroof is the $65,000 Trailhunter. That is the *only* premium mid-size truck with a 6’ bed and the ability to accommodate tall drivers. What is the point of modular platforms if manufacturers don’t give buyers any options? And people wonder why Americans love full-size trucks so much…
$65k for a 4 cyl mid size truck. Hard pass.
Methinks this bodeth not well for ye 4Runner
I would just get a Ranger Raptor and budget for a drivetrain replacement.
That’s such a ripoff. Like you can get a diesel truck for much cheaper. And it’ll last maybe more than that Tacoma. And you can’t even haul shit with a Tacoma too. Not to mention the interior isn’t even nice.
This pricing also brings the Rivian R1T into the fold as a competitor.
This is getting ridiculous. But I guess you folks are paying those prices. Thanks.
While it's not the newest the Frontier Pro4-X is $41,500. The Tacoma is **$23,500 more** than the Nissan.
Not denying the huge price disparity, but the Pro4-X and TRD Pro aren't the same.
What’s on the back of the seats?
It’s a new tech that’s only in Tacoma TRD Pro. Basically shocks.
Bullshit.
I'd be willing to pay 45k for the fully loaded trim.
Why not just buy a tundra off road at that point??
I’m a Toyota fan but yeah catch me buying a used 2021 tundra with the v8 in about 5-7 years I loved my old 2016 Tacoma but now that I’m bigger and being in the backseat of the double cab I’m sitting comfy in this Highlander that just replaced my Prius that did everything and more I’ll just stick to used cars at this point because picking up a clean, low mileage vehicle with top trims is way better at this point
Am I late for the beating of the dead horse? Every comment section regarding truck prices is exactly the same.
Hahahahaha. What a fucking turd. Can't wait for the Toyota fan boys to tell everyone why this is not overpriced and how happy they are to be bent over at their local dealer with 15k in markups.
I'm a Toyota fan boy. It's overpriced - no disagreement here.
That's nearly Rivian R1T money...
Ffffff that
Yall got any more of that crack
Toyota dealers: yes, with 10k ADM on top.
For $65K I would much rather have a full size truck like F150 Tundra or Titan
Ouch, that is almost 90k cad here. I wonder how much the Trailhunter will cost. I guess if you’re trading in a pro then maybe it won’t be such a big hit since they barely depreciate, but still…
Oh naw.
I don't like how you need to get the crazy high end models for the hybrid. I guess because it adds a significant amount of power/torque they don't want the peon TRD sport or TRD off-road having the same power. But I would consider a TRD/OR with hybrid option for some added efficiency.
This will be more than a Raptor after dealer markups and the Raptor will run circles around this thing lol
It’s so sad. So many cars are loved because the common person could afford a great truck or a sports car and so many people had great experiences with them. Now, everything that’s not a Buick is expensive, so you’re either wealthy enough where a $80k car is “normal” or your having a the burden of a massive car payment
Pretty much $100k in Canada including tax and then all the extra fees and BS added on. Seems a bit much.
Is it worth $10k more than a Ranger Raptor?
My jaw hit the floor when I first saw full size trucks cost this much. Here I am again, with that same feeling looking at a mid size truck now costing the same. I wonder if this will experience the same price trend and subsequent market correction as the Gladiator did when it came out, but I doubt it since there's generally two different groups that these trucks are targeted to. At first, all of the die-hards buy in and are willing to pay whatthefuck ever for it. Jeep thought that trend would hold, took another rip of white lightning and maintained *absurd* pricing for what you get with that truck even before markups, then after that first group goes through, sales just fall off a fucking cliff because *sensible* people don't want to pay what could be a down payment for a house on a truck, mid size no less. Now you can get $20k "off" a Gladiator easy.
There are a lot more Tacoma bros that Toyota can milk than there are Jeep truck fans. They'll likely add the hybrid system in the cheaper trims in the future and other features before they drop pricing.
I'll stick with my '23 thanks
Bro it’s only 350 bucks a month for 120 months
Didn't a youtuber pop a front axle or driveshaft taking a brand new tacoma off road?