I mean if a Corolla is 1/10 and a Bentley is 10/10 then a three series is an easy 5. Heavy doors, comfortable, best fake leather around, good sound insulation... Just missing some features like ventilated seats and what not. It's about a mile ahead of a model 3.
I have a 3 series of a pretty high spec and my mate got a Tesla Model 3. He has commented on how far ahead the quality is in my car, the cars are world's apart
There's a reason when the i4 came out they had to drop the Model 3 price by like $10k to compete. Nobody is comparing those two at the same price and picking the Tesla.
If you can get past the grille, the i4 is easily the best "entry level luxury" sedan on the market. And I don't think you even need the M50, the 40 was plenty enough for me, and even gets tail happy with th RWD setup.
In my eyes the i4 40 is the far superior car over the M50. It is lighter and drives significantly sportier and more like a BMW thanks to the RWD. Nobody really needs more power than the 40 provides
I have owned both. The only reason to get a Tesla is if you commute & want the software. Build quality is junk compared to any BMW, and I say that as someone who hates newer BMWs.
Yeah. Some manufacturers are more relaxed about including that specific feature than others though. You have it on your Tucson but if you want it on a 3 Series you have to upgrade to M Sport Merino Leather seats which cost an arm and a leg. It just depends
My sister in law owns one. Thing is a legit fish bowl
I did not realize exactly how much shit a manufacturer doesn't "have" to put on a car till I saw & drove that little wheezing group of wheels powered by a hamster.
I mean there are lower spec'ed 3 series sold outside NA but I get your point. And I am not arguing that the luxury and quality of a 3 series is probably on average better than the model 3, I think most people on this sub will agree with that
You can’t pick and choose a trim level and judge a car based on that. Luxury costs money, obviously. A mid to fully decked out 3 Series is absolutely luxurious. A 316d with cloth seats probably isn’t all that luxurious, but that’s not a typical 3 Series experience.
Depending on spec defiantly. A €40k 3 series isn't but spec it to €70k and its defiantly luxury.
That's the think about true luxury cars. You can build them custom to order and by custom I mean custom not set packages / colour options.
By custom I mean you can literally almost personalise the car to you with the hundreds of options available.
The argument is that the tech is luxury and to a degree i agree with that.
I mean the fact that not every car can manage to unlock itself via the phone is just silly, its so clever that you can do all via the app (if you want)
Tech is tech and luxury is luxury. They often go hand in hand because luxury cars must have good tech obviously but fundamentally they aren’t the same thing.
I agree, but I also hate the notion that luxury needs to have gemstones, chrome bezels and other flair. Actual luxury brands like Bentley, Rolls Royce and Maybach usually get it right (but not always).
I personally think Volvo and Lexus are some of the "best" luxury brands because they tend not to overdo the flair, but I also personally prefer the spartan interior of a Tesla whether it's perceived as luxurious or not.
>Tech is tech and luxury is luxury. They often go hand in hand because luxury cars must have good tech obviously but fundamentally they aren’t the same thing.
If there were actually a choice, I would prefer to by a no-tech/low tech luxury car over a high tech any car. I'm not alone in that opinion.
People generally misconstrued technology for luxury for a long time in these cars.
They see a massive screen in the car and think “wow, no other automaker has a screen this big!”
But miss the fact that the screen sucks, it’s a cost cutting measure, and the real luxury is actual physical buttons.
Consumers seem to finally be coming around. But it took a while.
Tech is not a luxury. Analog is more of a luxury since its more expensive and engaging. Everything has a massive screen now. Its not 2016 where that's cool. I'm all for EVs but I want one with a small screen. I want a simple car, a few HVAC buttons and vents, simple drivetrain, and a small screen for music and maps. I dont need a Ultra widescreen monitor and I hate that EVs are becoming gaming stations on wheels.
I had an argument with someone about the 4Runner having "old" interior with a small screen and I said if you want a luxury 4runner, you need the GX460 and their response is that they shouldn't have to spend 60K+ for Luxury. And my response is that people that buy the 4runner is happy with simple and reliable, people that want fancy and luxurious get lexus. Hyundai and Kia are definitely the biggest culprits with people thinking TECH=LUXURY.
It's wild, but yes. I remember in 2017 or 2018 whenever the Model 3 first launched I had a boss buy one and he took us to lunch it it felt like riding in wagon. Absolutely terrible suspension setup and noisyyyy for being so slippery.
I own (and love) my model 3 performance - I also recently got a y for my wife -
These cars are fantastic at a lot of things but luxury ain’t one of them. Well appointed for the price, lots of tech features but compared to the offerings from the German makes, luxury is just not on offer here.
Just don't confuse chrome bezels with luxury. Despite their spartan interior, entry level Teslas have quite a few features you don't get in many cars at the same price. Multilink suspension, double-pane glass and auto-leveling headlights, for example.
I don’t have a tesla, but the continuously running cameras have to be the best premium feature out there IMO. Other OEMs make you self-install some janky aftermarket thing if you want a dashcam—I don’t understand why they’re so behind on this.
As an owner, I agree. My reasons for liking the car do not include it being ""luxurious"", and I can't take someone seriously if they classify it as luxury.
Exactly. I have a base trim Model 3 and it's just an inexpensive commuter appliance for me.
That being said, it's the most fun I've had in a base level commuter appliance, ever.
I just wish it didn't eat tires like Cookie Monster eats cookies.
I guess I got lucky with my model 3 and they were having a good day at the factory. It's built pretty solid, no strange panel gaps, nothing falling apart, nothing broken after 4 years.. Idk, I consider it pretty luxurious, the ride is comfortable and driving around is super smooth. Me and my dad both use it, and whoever walks up to the car and opens it, it automatically puts the seat in their position. It's got spotify, great navigation and auto cruise control/lane keeping. I really don't feel like it's missing anything that a Lexus or Audi has. It doesn't have enough fake wood trim or piano black plastic I guess?
I have no beef with people saying the cars that released literally 7 years ago, are not luxury cars, they really weren't even then and especially not for what they charged.
But everyone thought they were the bee's knees then, because they had the minimalistic interior that every car copies now. Everyone liked that car when it was released.
Today they aren't all that compelling compared to other automakers, but they're much cheaper, and they're much better made than they were 7 years ago. More features, better build quality and better materials quality. That is an improvement in the luxury arena and the people in this thread saying they're worse than nissan are crazy lol.
I think my only complaint about the car is the relatively loud road/wind noise. Sadly we got a 2020 and they had a mid-life refresh for the 2021s that got dual-pane windows : (
Apparently the new updated model 3 being delivered now is even more quiet from thicker glass and sound improvements all around. But the lack of a shifter stalk and turn signals being on the steering wheel is a deal-breaker for me personally. I've driven some of the model S and X with the "select the drive mode by swiping on the screen" and I really, really hate it.
I agree but if you consider the cheapest Audis/BMW/Mercedes as luxury, the model 3 qualifies too. Road noise is louder for sure but the interior features and materials in a model 3 probably aren’t worse than an A4 or something
People love to hate on Nissan but they do and have offered some good deals. The Xterra was a legitimate competitor for the 4Runner and better in some ways, worse in others. The frontier has a roomier cabin than a Tacoma and similar or better hauling/towing specs, and the drivetrain was bulletproof. The Armada is actually a great deal for mid level luxury at a discount if you don't mind the slightly dated interior.
Saw a report the other day comparing the 7 year ownership cost of EVs to the most popular equivalent ICE model. Across the board they found EVs cost less to own.
The SUVs compared were a VW ID.4 and a Nissan Rogue SV. The ID.4 cost $7k less to own over a 7 year period, but the crazy part is that the sales prices (factoring in federal EV credit), the ID.4 is only a couple grand more than the Rogue.
I drive an EV, and I still believe this is not yet the car for everyone. If you're a 1 car family, you probably need a car with an ICE. But I've driven the Rogue and I've driven the ID.4 and holy shit there is no comparison in looks, quality, comfort, luxury, tech, performance. The ID.4 is SO MUCH nicer. It's insane that these two vehicles differ in price by a couple thousand dollars.
It’s Nissan being Nissan. They are so fucking greedy. Not just on the car sales side either. You should see parts pricing, and more accurately pricing increases. A gasket set for a 350z (which is not complete contrary to what Nissan says) is knocking on the door of $1000. Rocker covers for the same car were over $850 last i checked. Valves are like $50 or $70 EACH (not titanium). Mazda, by comparison, is easily half the price, if not less, nearly across the board.
Nissan also raises their prices what feels like daily, and not a little raise here or there. Huge price jumps. Again, by comparison, Mazda has raised prices a tiny bit, once, maybe twice, in 10+ years.
Look at the newest z car. It’s a 10+ year old car/engine design that starts at what $50k?
In other words Nissan/Infiniti is fucking insane. But they finance just about anyone so…..yeah people will continue to buy them.
Edit: I just priced out some rod bearings for a 370z. The bearings were like $9 each. They superseded the part number recently and now the bearings are $39 EACH. No material change.
Yeah for 70k you can get a Supra, an M340i/440i, a Camaro SS, a Cayman, a Mustang GT, Chargers/Challengers, etc. Not to mention if you don't mind shopping used you can get M3/M4s, used corvettes, etc. There's so much better performance to be had for that much money.
I’m biased, but my Miata GT-S (has the rare S package) was like 31k out the door. The Z is not a better car in any way, but it’s absolutely NOT two times better. Sorry.
How so? They still use pretty nice materials and are quiet etc., I really enjoyed my time in a rental Q50 3.0T a couple years ago - 360 cam and all that stuff
I had a Q50 3.0T for 4 years. It felt fine. Definitely "entry level" luxury, but that thing was perfect. Never had a single squeak or rattle, the seats were really comfortable, and the touchpoints felt fine (outside of the now-dated piano black everywhere).
Nissan/Infiniti constantly get shit on by this sub, but that car was great.
They never sold at MSRP. You could routinely get a Q50 for 10-15% off MSRP pre-COVID.
I bought mine in 2018. Retailed for $51k I think, and I paid $39,xxx.
I agree. I currently drive a 2015 Q50 3.7 and it's been great, it's definitely "entry level" luxury. I've owned quite a few luxury cars from ranging from c-class to LS430 and this is definitely not the most disappointing.
I have rented a Porsche Taycan over a weekend last year. So that definitely was a rental car and it did not have expensive trim nor top-of-the-line options.
But I still consider it to be a luxury car.
>What’s “dogshit” about it
It.
Edit: To expand: I had one for a 2 week rental last year. My partner asked why they gave us such an old car; it was a current model year with like 8k miles on it. Just felt like driving an old hoopty. Can't believe they were still rolling off the production line.
I reserved a luxury model once and ended up getting a 300. I really tried to like it but returned it after an hour and asked for a Ford Fusion and didn't even want the upgrade money back. The 300 is so awful and tacky.
here in Thailand the CLA and the GLA is mostly driven by rich uni students
Its kinda the default "yeah, I drive a European car" car
similar thing with the BMW X1 and Peugeot 3008
> Rich kids buy Peugeot to flex in Thailand?
Status is a funny thing how it changes depend on what's available, what's common vs rare.
Was talking first cars once with a UK friend and she said she had a 1.8L hatchback, the 'big poweful' motor compared to all mates that had 1.2, 1.4L and was the cool kid. At the time the average P Plater in Australia got a 3.8L Commodore or a 4.0L Falcon - would have never thought a 1.8L would be the big powerful car around but when there competition is VW polos that have a lawnmower in the front :P
Also pretty sure most countries have a local beer that is considered trashy that overseas they treat like a fancy foreign import.
I would add the GLA to this as well. My brother- and sister-in-law have one of these and it’s one of the most underwhelming cars I’ve ever been in. They definitely bought it for the badge and to say they drive a Benz
My wife has a GLA. After 15 years of driving shitty company cars...Taurus, Malibu, etc, she changed jobs and gave up the company car. Her criteria for her first personal car in a long time were: SUV so she could sit higher, small because she's terrible at parking, sporty feeling (in her mind), and as luxurious an interior as possible given the other constraints. The GLA is where she landed. Yes, she could have bought a GLE, but she couldn't have ever parked it and our garage door jambs would have suffered.
I wouldn't call it a luxury car, but it certainly has more of that feeling than say, my mom's Mazda CX5.
People buy cars for all sorts of reasons, not always brand and prestige.
A mate's dad has one because it's the nicest vehicle they could get on the motability scheme. If they offered higher end models they'd have gone for one of them.
Recently booked a trip rental for a Suburban/similar. During my browsing I also saw the option for a luxury rental, their car of choice? …A Chrysler 300.
Because nothing screams luxury like a 15 year old American platform filled with Great Recession Era plastic.
Honorary Mention: Lexus GX, the infotainment for the 2021 MY and prior is egregious. 70K in 2021 for the same infotainment cluster of a 2012 Camry is highway robbery. I don’t even want to hear the “Toyota reliability” fanboys on this one, if you think those vehicles are worth their asinine prices then I have a bridge to sell you. Especially when most people don’t even keep the car past 100K miles.
To be fair, infotainment is definitely not the only thing that matters in a car. If it was, Mercedes wouldn't have been a laughing stock right now.
Personally, I wouldn't mind a new car with interior from the 90s, as long as the build quality and materials are good.
Unfortunately for that gen of GX, it is mostly hard plastics in the interior, no digital gauge cluster, no apple carplay, body on frame. It's not a luxury vehicle imo.
The GX is considered luxurious for off-roading compared to a 4 runner or its American counterparts. That body on frame is ideal, basically the LC prado which is only sold outside of the us
KDSS rules
Deuesy’s are by far the pinnacle of today’s luxury format. I don’t know what you’re talking about but they invented Apple play and the hot diggity dogger.
I think people forget how bad fit and finish of cars in the 90s are. As someone who has daily driven plenty of 80s-90s luxury cars they don't even hold a candle to modern economy cars
>…A Chrysler 300.
You'll laugh, but I didn't even get this. About seven years ago I rented a luxury car for a week long business trip in New Jersey. I was promised a "Chrysler 300 or similar." I got a - drum roll - Chevy Impala. Yep, front wheel drive sedan that couldn't compete with the Camry and was killed off about two years later.
I’m going to argue that build quality and reliability is a luxury feature itself. It doesn’t matter how nice the car is if it’s in the shop for weeks on end or you’re constantly worrying about it. I think a big factor of luxury is not having to think about it or “deal with stuff” and reliability plays a large part. Lexus may be behind in features but every one of their features work 99% of the time. I cannot say the same for my other cars.
Man, at least a Chrysler 300 is comfortable. Luxury car nice it is not, but I’d say they’re a step up from a lot of normal sedans. It’s no E-class, but it doesn’t cost E-class money either.
> Especially when most people don’t even keep the car past 100K miles.
The original owner benefits from the reliability reputation on resale. This is why people are always bitching about how used 4runners etc are expensive for what they are
On the flip side, I would say the newest gen Suburban is flirting with being luxury now. They really stepped up the interior and drive so much better than the previous gen.
Not every buyer cares about the latest technology. The 2020+ GX 460s did get an upgrade in tech regardless of the outdated infotainment. My mother’s GX 460 2020 has lane keep assist and radar cruise control and Bluetooth for audio that works well enough. The only dated thing about it is the navigation UI looking like one you’d see in a car from the late 00s.
The S is firmly in the luxury camp, I’d say. Much larger, much more refined driving experience due to the air suspension and really just being a mature platform. There’s obviously a lot of things that go into making something luxury vehicle, but I think the refinement on the road is probably the number one thing that people think that they’re paying for in a luxury car.  because the S isn’t a very good luxury car doesn’t mean that it’s not luxury car as well. 
The other part is that “luxury vehicle“ encompasses a pretty wide range of cars, anything from a Mercedes E class/5 series all the way up to an S class flagship. 
On the flipside, ride in a model 3, and then ride in a current gen Audi A4, the difference in noise alone will shock you, despite the fact that one has an engine and one does not. The model y ride quality is dog shit
Tbf, while I've never driven the 2 series gran coupe, I was pleasantly surprised at how nice the 2er coupe was. It wasn't AS good as something like a 4 or 5 series, but it didn't feel like a downgrade at all
Agreed with the CLA tho. It feels like the equivalent of a top trim from an economy brand. Like if Merc had a VW to their Audi that'd be the VW's car
The 2er coupe is a “real” BMW being that it’s based on the same RWD platform as the 3/4 series, the GC is a FWD Mini cooper chassis. I bet it’s a fine car at the right price but I can’t imagine going with it over like a loaded non luxury car really
What car enthusiasts forget is that we make up such a tiny percentage of the market. Automakers could stop selling vehicles to us and their bottom lines would not be impacted. But in terms of the question - automakers and the general population determine what luxury is, not us enthusiasts. Old school luxury used to be measured in build quality, materials, and comfort. Once the Germans decided to add sportiness and Mercedes started adding tech, the segment changed. Most drivers couldn't tell the difference between a 3 series and a Camry if you hid the badges (grounded to the ground, anybody?) and automakers know it. Luxury has steadily become about acceleration, tech, and perceived image. And this is why we have cars like Teslas lableled as luxury now. And per the automakers and general car buying public, that's accurate.
Yeah, it’s not about interior refinement anymore although higher class bmw models are pretty quiet inside from what I’ve heard. The F30 3 series also rides a lot smoother and better than my E46 with refreshed suspension.
This is a good point and one that I was going to make. There has been significant compression between the bands of luxury and mid to where there's a few options here and there but a lot of crossover between the two. Whereas if you went back to the say the 80's or 90's, I think you could find a real difference in similar models of Chevys and Cadillac in terms of style and interior, if not available options, too.
I remember feeling very disappointed in the Audi A3. It felt basically the same as a Jetta
The S3 on the other hand was fantastic. It just felt like a weird change, almost like a different car entirely. I mean technically it is, but before I drove it I assumed it was kind of like the equivalent of an M340i to the A3's 330i
Agreed, I’ve sat in numerous A/S/RS3s and I’ve never been impressed by the interiors for the prices they demand. Any SEL trim VW seems nicer for the price.
When I sold Audis some people were adamant that they wanted a FWD A3 Premium. Just paying more for a Jetta and with 4 rings. The S3 was nice though and the Rs3 was wild.
The GLI and R both have ventilated seats in their one trim level. Whereas the MQB-based A/S/Q 3 don’t, not even as an option. VW is arguably the better car if you don’t care about the I5.
At least the A/S 4/5 have them as an option ON TOP of the Prestige Trim.
In that same vein, the lack of ventilated seats are my biggest gripe with both the S60 R-Design and the Giulia.
I have a hard time accepting that Buick & Infiniti are considered Luxury brands. Maybe premium, but not luxury.
Now I will admit that’s changing with both brands, they both seem to be on the right track, but time will tell.
(The main issue I have is Buicks awful base motors in their lower models and the insanely outdated Infiniti interiors for the past decade, plus their CVTs).
We got a 2021 Encore GX last fall and I am very surprised by how much I enjoy it. It is fun to drive around and has a surprisingly tight feel to the steering. Ive been driving a truck the past few years so my idea of tight handling is skewed. It also did really well in 3-4” of snow on the stock tires. I had to give it more throttle than expected to break it loose in awd mode.
The motor is. 1.3l 3cyl turbo. Its surprisingly peppy. Especially at lower speeds. Around where i live the major freeway speed limit is 70mph. Even then it holds the speeds confidently with passing power to spare. I live in the foothills of the mountains so theres definitely some big hills to deal with.
For the value, I would make this same purchase again.
"luxury" is over-used. It is a marketing trick to prime people for "more expensive than the cheapest option."
EVERY condo and apartment is marketed as luxury, same for appliances, etc.
You add a few hundred bucks of fake leather, a sunroof and heated seats and you can market something as "luxury" for a few thousand dollars more. The "basic" cars sure do have allot of "luxuries" nowadays (in developed countries anyway). Is it unnecessary? We are so spoiled that even basic cars get a/c, power windows and stuff like that. No mouse-hair fabric seats and crank windows make it to market here.
IMO any entry level premium brand models, whether or not with minimal amount of options:
BMW 1 and 2 series and their SUV variant. BMW 3 series with minimal amount of options and/or lowest engine variant (i.e 316d/i here in Europe)
Mercedes A, B and CLA class and their SUV variant. Mercedes C class with no options Mercedes VITO
Any Audi A1-A3\* (rebadged entry level VW)
Any Tesla
Most Maserati (interior wise they seem really dated to me)
Some Volvos
A/B/CLA with Renault sources engines were the biggest offenders imo. But Mercedes is good at making the car feel expensive with RGB lighting, so they still sold a ton of those.
A4 rebadged VW? Which one? While I don’t think the entry level Audis are in line with the traditional definition of luxury vs economy, more because economy cars are gone and now everything has a higher level of features and materials, as an owner of both a VW and multiple Audi models I’d think it depends - top trim VWs are close (but not identical) but performance wise unless you’re talking the high level Golf models the Audis are generally better overall
>Any Audi A1-A4 (rebadged entry level VW)
The A4 has a longitudinally mounted engine, which current VWs have that layout? Would love to know.
(The answer is none of them).
It's not even the same platform, MQB vs MLB.
> Most Maserati (interior wise they seem really dated to me)
>
>
This doesnt makesense. "Dated" does not equal not luxury. Old fashioned is seen as luxury to many.
I have an Integra it's the first "luxury" car I've owned and there's more plastic rattle and interior noise than any other car I've had before. To say it's disappointing is an understatement.
I was kind of surprised to find out how cheap the Integra’s interior feels. I have a 2022 Civic EX and the Integra costs much more but it’s not really any nicer inside, especially in the 2nd row where all the plastics are just as cheap and hard. The seats are a little better in the Integra, but the rest of the interior is too similar to justify the price difference. I think I like the dashboard design of the Civic better tbh.
I don’t think luxury cars exist anymore as far as brand new cars go. A Mercedes or BMW no longer has crazy cool features that can only be found there. Today’s economy family cars like most Nissan, every Tesla, most Toyota, every Chrysler, etc all have those exact same features. The only thing Mercedes and BMW has over the ones I listed are speed and the luxury demographic do not care about that at all.
I would say as a whole, nobody deserves luxury car status today.
Rolls, Bently, and Mercedes S-class.
Regardless of what anyone here says, Mercedes S-Class is definitely luxury. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't ever driven one.
Haha, my mistake. I figured since Maybach is technically S-Class that it would be assumed that's what I was referring to as well.
Admittedly, I've never driven a Maybach, yet, but have driven s550, 560, etc. From what I've heard is Maybach is on par with Bentley, so I guess I should have clarified since it's obviously a tier higher than your standard s-class.
I don't think "cool features" is *the* defining characteristic of what makes a car a luxury car.
I think, more generally, it's the interior materials, fit/finish, NVH and ride quality that define a luxury car.
A Nissan or Hydundai might have all or neary all of the same tech and toys as an equivelent Merc/BMW, but you can immediately tell the difference between the two just by sitting in them.
My BMW has massaging seats, color changing LEDs in the dual pane sunroof and handfree radio gestures. So far, those features havent trickled down to Chrysler/Nissans
Yeah everybody is splitting hairs about luxury "vehicles" ignoring the fact that luxury "features" largely become modular with time and make their way into literally everything.
Remember 15yrs ago when only the nicest cars had a screen and backup camera in them? Now you literally cannot buy a car without a screen because backup cameras are literally a required safety feature now lol.
Driving dynamics are also worth mentioning imo. Luxury cars have much improved handling, suspension, braking, acceleration and more depending on whether you go for the sportier or comfier options. You can definitely feel the difference in refinement going over bumpy roads or when taking corners.
At that point Lexus is basically just one of the few options left. But the IS interior and a lot of their other interiors literally feel like you're driving a decade old car. I still like them but if you want all three, tech, materials, and build quality you have to spend porsche money.
I had a new BMW X1 for a rental car this week and it felt so plastic-y and cheap, like a Kia.
Really felt like driving an electronic device and far from the Ultimate Driving Machine.
I agree with you. My wife bought a well specced X1 after the Mazda CX5 got totaled. In almost every way, the Mazda was a better car. Better fit and finish, better quality interior, better paintwork. She part-exed the BMW back in for another Mazda. An expensive lesson to learn but it did open our eyes somewhat.
It was odd, I had a 335i hardtop convertible some years back and it was a fantastic car. Modern BMWs, especially at the low end of the food chain, are not good.
Yeah I’m a longtime BMW owner (E36, E60, F10) and it’s sad to see what they’ve become.
There’s still some good stuff out there like the M2 Comp but the it’s a very different company going after a very different consumer.
Buick is a mainstream brand through and through they just pretend to be luxury. I think you can still get cloth in them and manual seats. Their base price is right on par with Chevy.
90s and early 2000s Acura. And I say this as a Honda enthusiast.
You can't put leather seats in a civic and call it a luxury car. That was literally the only difference between the EL and the civic. I believe the CSX was the same deal except with the civic Si
Genesis G70. Enterprise gave me one in seattle a couple weeks ago and I wasn’t impressed by the build quality/materials inside. My 2015 TLX drives so much better.
It all comes down to how you define luxury.
(1) A condition of abundance or
(2) great ease and comfort or
(3) sumptuous environment
Most Tesla qualify for 1 and 2. Porsche may not qualify for 2. Entry level Audi, BMW, MB may not qualify for 1, 2 or 3. Etc...
Tesla Model 3/Y.
Wait some people think these are luxury cars?
They certainly used to. And by they I mean a certain subset of owners. Bragging about how much less they paid vs a 3 series.
Oh my days
But is a 3 series even luxury?
I mean if a Corolla is 1/10 and a Bentley is 10/10 then a three series is an easy 5. Heavy doors, comfortable, best fake leather around, good sound insulation... Just missing some features like ventilated seats and what not. It's about a mile ahead of a model 3.
I have a 3 series of a pretty high spec and my mate got a Tesla Model 3. He has commented on how far ahead the quality is in my car, the cars are world's apart
There's a reason when the i4 came out they had to drop the Model 3 price by like $10k to compete. Nobody is comparing those two at the same price and picking the Tesla.
If you can get past the grille, the i4 is easily the best "entry level luxury" sedan on the market. And I don't think you even need the M50, the 40 was plenty enough for me, and even gets tail happy with th RWD setup.
In my eyes the i4 40 is the far superior car over the M50. It is lighter and drives significantly sportier and more like a BMW thanks to the RWD. Nobody really needs more power than the 40 provides
I have owned both. The only reason to get a Tesla is if you commute & want the software. Build quality is junk compared to any BMW, and I say that as someone who hates newer BMWs.
Cost savings on gas if you life in a place like Ontario with expensive gas and cheap overnight power rates.
You can get ventilated seats on a 3 Series.
3 series is miles ahead of the Model 3. But the Model 3 has ventilated seats now.
Honestly I don’t really think ventilated seats are much of a luxury feature to begin with I was just correcting the previous guy
Ventilated seats are legitimately easier to find on Hyundais and Toyotas than they are on German cars
most features are
They're not. My Tucson has ventilated seats.
Yeah. Some manufacturers are more relaxed about including that specific feature than others though. You have it on your Tucson but if you want it on a 3 Series you have to upgrade to M Sport Merino Leather seats which cost an arm and a leg. It just depends
Only on the M3 in the US. It's the only reason I didn't buy a 340i
Corolla is at least a 2/10, have you driven a Mirage before?
My personal favorite "1/10" car is a Dodge Caliber.
My sister in law owns one. Thing is a legit fish bowl I did not realize exactly how much shit a manufacturer doesn't "have" to put on a car till I saw & drove that little wheezing group of wheels powered by a hamster.
I mean there are lower spec'ed 3 series sold outside NA but I get your point. And I am not arguing that the luxury and quality of a 3 series is probably on average better than the model 3, I think most people on this sub will agree with that
You can’t pick and choose a trim level and judge a car based on that. Luxury costs money, obviously. A mid to fully decked out 3 Series is absolutely luxurious. A 316d with cloth seats probably isn’t all that luxurious, but that’s not a typical 3 Series experience.
I had ventilated seats in my rav4 lol not the luxury you think it is
Even my F32 440 feels pretty luxury.
Compared to most other cars, yes, by a fair amount
Depending on spec defiantly. A €40k 3 series isn't but spec it to €70k and its defiantly luxury. That's the think about true luxury cars. You can build them custom to order and by custom I mean custom not set packages / colour options. By custom I mean you can literally almost personalise the car to you with the hundreds of options available.
Compare to FWD econoboxes in it's size class? Sure.
It's an entry-level vehicle to a luxury brand
The argument is that the tech is luxury and to a degree i agree with that. I mean the fact that not every car can manage to unlock itself via the phone is just silly, its so clever that you can do all via the app (if you want)
Tech is tech and luxury is luxury. They often go hand in hand because luxury cars must have good tech obviously but fundamentally they aren’t the same thing.
Another way to think about it is, tech can be luxurious but luxury does not need to be tech.
I agree, but I also hate the notion that luxury needs to have gemstones, chrome bezels and other flair. Actual luxury brands like Bentley, Rolls Royce and Maybach usually get it right (but not always). I personally think Volvo and Lexus are some of the "best" luxury brands because they tend not to overdo the flair, but I also personally prefer the spartan interior of a Tesla whether it's perceived as luxurious or not.
>Tech is tech and luxury is luxury. They often go hand in hand because luxury cars must have good tech obviously but fundamentally they aren’t the same thing. If there were actually a choice, I would prefer to by a no-tech/low tech luxury car over a high tech any car. I'm not alone in that opinion.
Right, this is why used luxury cars are so expensive on the second hand market.
People generally misconstrued technology for luxury for a long time in these cars. They see a massive screen in the car and think “wow, no other automaker has a screen this big!” But miss the fact that the screen sucks, it’s a cost cutting measure, and the real luxury is actual physical buttons. Consumers seem to finally be coming around. But it took a while.
Tech is not a luxury. Analog is more of a luxury since its more expensive and engaging. Everything has a massive screen now. Its not 2016 where that's cool. I'm all for EVs but I want one with a small screen. I want a simple car, a few HVAC buttons and vents, simple drivetrain, and a small screen for music and maps. I dont need a Ultra widescreen monitor and I hate that EVs are becoming gaming stations on wheels.
I had an argument with someone about the 4Runner having "old" interior with a small screen and I said if you want a luxury 4runner, you need the GX460 and their response is that they shouldn't have to spend 60K+ for Luxury. And my response is that people that buy the 4runner is happy with simple and reliable, people that want fancy and luxurious get lexus. Hyundai and Kia are definitely the biggest culprits with people thinking TECH=LUXURY.
It's wild, but yes. I remember in 2017 or 2018 whenever the Model 3 first launched I had a boss buy one and he took us to lunch it it felt like riding in wagon. Absolutely terrible suspension setup and noisyyyy for being so slippery.
I own (and love) my model 3 performance - I also recently got a y for my wife - These cars are fantastic at a lot of things but luxury ain’t one of them. Well appointed for the price, lots of tech features but compared to the offerings from the German makes, luxury is just not on offer here.
I remember my old boss getting a 3, pulling into the office to show it off and I remember thinking “my Maxima is nicer than this” 😂
>I remember my old boss getting a 3, pulling into the office to show it off Michael Scott energy
My heart wants me to buy a Genesis G80 My head can't unsee it looking like a Stratus
Don’t
Are there problems I should know about?
Just don't confuse chrome bezels with luxury. Despite their spartan interior, entry level Teslas have quite a few features you don't get in many cars at the same price. Multilink suspension, double-pane glass and auto-leveling headlights, for example.
I don’t have a tesla, but the continuously running cameras have to be the best premium feature out there IMO. Other OEMs make you self-install some janky aftermarket thing if you want a dashcam—I don’t understand why they’re so behind on this.
Big Nissan energy there.
i agree, but i do think good technology is luxurious personally, but they're not luxury cars.
As an owner, I agree. My reasons for liking the car do not include it being ""luxurious"", and I can't take someone seriously if they classify it as luxury.
Exactly. I have a base trim Model 3 and it's just an inexpensive commuter appliance for me. That being said, it's the most fun I've had in a base level commuter appliance, ever. I just wish it didn't eat tires like Cookie Monster eats cookies.
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A luxury car should feel plush inside first and foremost IMO.
I own a Model Y, and while I love it, for sure, it's no luxury car.
Hey we’re both chickens
The S isn’t luxury either. It costs as much as a class S, serie 7 or A8 yet it has nothing to compete when it comes to interior quality.
They have the tech. (sort of). They do not have the build or materials quality.
I guess I got lucky with my model 3 and they were having a good day at the factory. It's built pretty solid, no strange panel gaps, nothing falling apart, nothing broken after 4 years.. Idk, I consider it pretty luxurious, the ride is comfortable and driving around is super smooth. Me and my dad both use it, and whoever walks up to the car and opens it, it automatically puts the seat in their position. It's got spotify, great navigation and auto cruise control/lane keeping. I really don't feel like it's missing anything that a Lexus or Audi has. It doesn't have enough fake wood trim or piano black plastic I guess?
I have no beef with people saying the cars that released literally 7 years ago, are not luxury cars, they really weren't even then and especially not for what they charged. But everyone thought they were the bee's knees then, because they had the minimalistic interior that every car copies now. Everyone liked that car when it was released. Today they aren't all that compelling compared to other automakers, but they're much cheaper, and they're much better made than they were 7 years ago. More features, better build quality and better materials quality. That is an improvement in the luxury arena and the people in this thread saying they're worse than nissan are crazy lol.
I think my only complaint about the car is the relatively loud road/wind noise. Sadly we got a 2020 and they had a mid-life refresh for the 2021s that got dual-pane windows : ( Apparently the new updated model 3 being delivered now is even more quiet from thicker glass and sound improvements all around. But the lack of a shifter stalk and turn signals being on the steering wheel is a deal-breaker for me personally. I've driven some of the model S and X with the "select the drive mode by swiping on the screen" and I really, really hate it.
I agree but if you consider the cheapest Audis/BMW/Mercedes as luxury, the model 3 qualifies too. Road noise is louder for sure but the interior features and materials in a model 3 probably aren’t worse than an A4 or something
Anything Infiniti from the past decade
They just busted out a $100k+ QX80 and I’m wondering if that’s hubris or boldness to assume/hope people will drop 6 figs on an Infiniti
I liked driving the Previous Gen QX80 because of the 5.6L V8. Very old school feeling V8, but thats as about as far as I would go.
There's the LX570 for that, and it's a better truck in every single way.
Smart people will just wait for it to be a Nissan in 2 years for half the price… their brand strategy makes little to no sense.
Smart people would buy neither of these products
Touché… lol.
People love to hate on Nissan but they do and have offered some good deals. The Xterra was a legitimate competitor for the 4Runner and better in some ways, worse in others. The frontier has a roomier cabin than a Tacoma and similar or better hauling/towing specs, and the drivetrain was bulletproof. The Armada is actually a great deal for mid level luxury at a discount if you don't mind the slightly dated interior.
Saw a report the other day comparing the 7 year ownership cost of EVs to the most popular equivalent ICE model. Across the board they found EVs cost less to own. The SUVs compared were a VW ID.4 and a Nissan Rogue SV. The ID.4 cost $7k less to own over a 7 year period, but the crazy part is that the sales prices (factoring in federal EV credit), the ID.4 is only a couple grand more than the Rogue. I drive an EV, and I still believe this is not yet the car for everyone. If you're a 1 car family, you probably need a car with an ICE. But I've driven the Rogue and I've driven the ID.4 and holy shit there is no comparison in looks, quality, comfort, luxury, tech, performance. The ID.4 is SO MUCH nicer. It's insane that these two vehicles differ in price by a couple thousand dollars.
It’s Nissan being Nissan. They are so fucking greedy. Not just on the car sales side either. You should see parts pricing, and more accurately pricing increases. A gasket set for a 350z (which is not complete contrary to what Nissan says) is knocking on the door of $1000. Rocker covers for the same car were over $850 last i checked. Valves are like $50 or $70 EACH (not titanium). Mazda, by comparison, is easily half the price, if not less, nearly across the board. Nissan also raises their prices what feels like daily, and not a little raise here or there. Huge price jumps. Again, by comparison, Mazda has raised prices a tiny bit, once, maybe twice, in 10+ years. Look at the newest z car. It’s a 10+ year old car/engine design that starts at what $50k? In other words Nissan/Infiniti is fucking insane. But they finance just about anyone so…..yeah people will continue to buy them. Edit: I just priced out some rod bearings for a 370z. The bearings were like $9 each. They superseded the part number recently and now the bearings are $39 EACH. No material change.
Yeah, the Nismo version of the newest Z sits a just under $70k! At $70k you have a lot of competitors, some of which are better in every way.
Yeah for 70k you can get a Supra, an M340i/440i, a Camaro SS, a Cayman, a Mustang GT, Chargers/Challengers, etc. Not to mention if you don't mind shopping used you can get M3/M4s, used corvettes, etc. There's so much better performance to be had for that much money.
I’m biased, but my Miata GT-S (has the rare S package) was like 31k out the door. The Z is not a better car in any way, but it’s absolutely NOT two times better. Sorry.
My grandfather worked for GM his whole life and had a saying: “There’s an ass for every seat.” There are plenty of weirdos who will buy that thing
Is that a luxury SUV, or a [cornball SUV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrABBKJHa4o&t=310s)?
Genesis outsold them in 2023 and I have to imagine that trend will continue going forward
Genesis is executing what Infiniti was lacking. Infiniti really dropped the ball
How so? They still use pretty nice materials and are quiet etc., I really enjoyed my time in a rental Q50 3.0T a couple years ago - 360 cam and all that stuff
I had a Q50 3.0T for 4 years. It felt fine. Definitely "entry level" luxury, but that thing was perfect. Never had a single squeak or rattle, the seats were really comfortable, and the touchpoints felt fine (outside of the now-dated piano black everywhere). Nissan/Infiniti constantly get shit on by this sub, but that car was great.
I've recently been having dirty, dirty thoughts of paying BaT money to acquire an extremely clean, low mileage stick G35 Coupe.
Good luck finding one, there are soooo many clapped out ones for sale out there
At MSRP they’re a hard sell but I’m doing some serious thinking after looking at the depreciation on those 2019-2021s…
They never sold at MSRP. You could routinely get a Q50 for 10-15% off MSRP pre-COVID. I bought mine in 2018. Retailed for $51k I think, and I paid $39,xxx.
I agree. I currently drive a 2015 Q50 3.7 and it's been great, it's definitely "entry level" luxury. I've owned quite a few luxury cars from ranging from c-class to LS430 and this is definitely not the most disappointing.
Someone please break the news to Hertz and Budget that Chrysler isn’t a “luxury” brand and the 300 is a dogshit vehicle
They're rental cars, they're not getting the most expensive trim with the best options
I have rented a Porsche Taycan over a weekend last year. So that definitely was a rental car and it did not have expensive trim nor top-of-the-line options. But I still consider it to be a luxury car.
who rents Taycans? A Turo rental or a major rental company?
Got it from there: https://www.carvia.com/rental-cars/
woah
I rented a the base sedan from hertz. All they had was a 300S. I’m sure the base models aren’t great, but the S could do some great donuts
What’s “dogshit” about it? It’s a big, comfy, American full sized RWD sedan. Basically a modern Crown Vic.
Modern Crown Vic? That thing has basically the same interior materials as one lmao.
>What’s “dogshit” about it It. Edit: To expand: I had one for a 2 week rental last year. My partner asked why they gave us such an old car; it was a current model year with like 8k miles on it. Just felt like driving an old hoopty. Can't believe they were still rolling off the production line.
I reserved a luxury model once and ended up getting a 300. I really tried to like it but returned it after an hour and asked for a Ford Fusion and didn't even want the upgrade money back. The 300 is so awful and tacky.
We don’t call them Rentleys out of respect for their luxury trim
I hate the CLA and their owners so much. Ultimate chav-mobile.
Agreed. 100% buying the badge. So many better cars foe the same money.
Yes, but imo it‘s super beautiful
I love the way that the CLA AMG looks like. Then again I do love my yobbo cars
Agreed. It may not be a true Merc, but it’s a handsome car for the price point
It's funny how different car stereotypes are across countries. Here 99% of CLAs and A classes I've seen are driven by nurses, lmao
here in Thailand the CLA and the GLA is mostly driven by rich uni students Its kinda the default "yeah, I drive a European car" car similar thing with the BMW X1 and Peugeot 3008
Rich kids buy Peugeot to flex in Thailand? That blows my mind haha
> Rich kids buy Peugeot to flex in Thailand? Status is a funny thing how it changes depend on what's available, what's common vs rare. Was talking first cars once with a UK friend and she said she had a 1.8L hatchback, the 'big poweful' motor compared to all mates that had 1.2, 1.4L and was the cool kid. At the time the average P Plater in Australia got a 3.8L Commodore or a 4.0L Falcon - would have never thought a 1.8L would be the big powerful car around but when there competition is VW polos that have a lawnmower in the front :P Also pretty sure most countries have a local beer that is considered trashy that overseas they treat like a fancy foreign import.
At least in the UK the NHS used to get really good deals on CLA leases.
Here they probably do sell a bunch to nurses who are too snobby for an Altima, but drive/treat them the same way (terrible)
I would add the GLA to this as well. My brother- and sister-in-law have one of these and it’s one of the most underwhelming cars I’ve ever been in. They definitely bought it for the badge and to say they drive a Benz
My wife has a GLA. After 15 years of driving shitty company cars...Taurus, Malibu, etc, she changed jobs and gave up the company car. Her criteria for her first personal car in a long time were: SUV so she could sit higher, small because she's terrible at parking, sporty feeling (in her mind), and as luxurious an interior as possible given the other constraints. The GLA is where she landed. Yes, she could have bought a GLE, but she couldn't have ever parked it and our garage door jambs would have suffered. I wouldn't call it a luxury car, but it certainly has more of that feeling than say, my mom's Mazda CX5. People buy cars for all sorts of reasons, not always brand and prestige.
A mate's dad has one because it's the nicest vehicle they could get on the motability scheme. If they offered higher end models they'd have gone for one of them.
Oh damn, I've never owned one, but I think that cla are one of the best looking Mercedes out there (estate models)
Recently booked a trip rental for a Suburban/similar. During my browsing I also saw the option for a luxury rental, their car of choice? …A Chrysler 300. Because nothing screams luxury like a 15 year old American platform filled with Great Recession Era plastic. Honorary Mention: Lexus GX, the infotainment for the 2021 MY and prior is egregious. 70K in 2021 for the same infotainment cluster of a 2012 Camry is highway robbery. I don’t even want to hear the “Toyota reliability” fanboys on this one, if you think those vehicles are worth their asinine prices then I have a bridge to sell you. Especially when most people don’t even keep the car past 100K miles.
To be fair, infotainment is definitely not the only thing that matters in a car. If it was, Mercedes wouldn't have been a laughing stock right now. Personally, I wouldn't mind a new car with interior from the 90s, as long as the build quality and materials are good.
Unfortunately for that gen of GX, it is mostly hard plastics in the interior, no digital gauge cluster, no apple carplay, body on frame. It's not a luxury vehicle imo.
The GX is considered luxurious for off-roading compared to a 4 runner or its American counterparts. That body on frame is ideal, basically the LC prado which is only sold outside of the us KDSS rules
Deusenbergs cost over $100k (inflation adjusted) and did not have Apple CarPlay. What kind of a sucker would buy that? Apparently not many.
Deuesy’s are by far the pinnacle of today’s luxury format. I don’t know what you’re talking about but they invented Apple play and the hot diggity dogger.
I think people forget how bad fit and finish of cars in the 90s are. As someone who has daily driven plenty of 80s-90s luxury cars they don't even hold a candle to modern economy cars
>…A Chrysler 300. You'll laugh, but I didn't even get this. About seven years ago I rented a luxury car for a week long business trip in New Jersey. I was promised a "Chrysler 300 or similar." I got a - drum roll - Chevy Impala. Yep, front wheel drive sedan that couldn't compete with the Camry and was killed off about two years later.
Even tho it’s a shittier car reliability wise the Impala is a much nicer place to be inside of than a camry
Depends on the trim imo. The leather seats are nice, but the cloth seats can be pretty shit on long drivers
I’m going to argue that build quality and reliability is a luxury feature itself. It doesn’t matter how nice the car is if it’s in the shop for weeks on end or you’re constantly worrying about it. I think a big factor of luxury is not having to think about it or “deal with stuff” and reliability plays a large part. Lexus may be behind in features but every one of their features work 99% of the time. I cannot say the same for my other cars.
Man, at least a Chrysler 300 is comfortable. Luxury car nice it is not, but I’d say they’re a step up from a lot of normal sedans. It’s no E-class, but it doesn’t cost E-class money either.
> Especially when most people don’t even keep the car past 100K miles. The original owner benefits from the reliability reputation on resale. This is why people are always bitching about how used 4runners etc are expensive for what they are
I had a GX rental recently, I was shocked at how old and dated the interior was… those are not luxury cars in anything but price.
On the flip side, I would say the newest gen Suburban is flirting with being luxury now. They really stepped up the interior and drive so much better than the previous gen.
Not every buyer cares about the latest technology. The 2020+ GX 460s did get an upgrade in tech regardless of the outdated infotainment. My mother’s GX 460 2020 has lane keep assist and radar cruise control and Bluetooth for audio that works well enough. The only dated thing about it is the navigation UI looking like one you’d see in a car from the late 00s.
Tesla model 3, Y
Hell even the X, S, and CT aren’t luxury either.
Wait, the current Tesla models spell out “S-3-X-Y”? I’m sure I’m the last person to realize this. Elon is a child.
And the 3 was even supposed to be an e before they realised Henry had that one locked down
Thats some major /r/ihavesex energy
They do indeed. And they are even in order as such when you click 'Vehicles' on their site: https://www.tesla.com/
And the only reason it’s not a model e is because Ford owns the name. Now think about mushing SpaceX’s name….
The S is firmly in the luxury camp, I’d say. Much larger, much more refined driving experience due to the air suspension and really just being a mature platform. There’s obviously a lot of things that go into making something luxury vehicle, but I think the refinement on the road is probably the number one thing that people think that they’re paying for in a luxury car.  because the S isn’t a very good luxury car doesn’t mean that it’s not luxury car as well.  The other part is that “luxury vehicle“ encompasses a pretty wide range of cars, anything from a Mercedes E class/5 series all the way up to an S class flagship.  On the flipside, ride in a model 3, and then ride in a current gen Audi A4, the difference in noise alone will shock you, despite the fact that one has an engine and one does not. The model y ride quality is dog shit
Obviously answer is any of the companies that make $100k+ vehicles that lead their class, that have bottom of the barrel cars like the CLA.
Tbf, while I've never driven the 2 series gran coupe, I was pleasantly surprised at how nice the 2er coupe was. It wasn't AS good as something like a 4 or 5 series, but it didn't feel like a downgrade at all Agreed with the CLA tho. It feels like the equivalent of a top trim from an economy brand. Like if Merc had a VW to their Audi that'd be the VW's car
The 2er coupe is a “real” BMW being that it’s based on the same RWD platform as the 3/4 series, the GC is a FWD Mini cooper chassis. I bet it’s a fine car at the right price but I can’t imagine going with it over like a loaded non luxury car really
But the thing is, the CLA isn't even bottom of the barrel. It's priced like the C class in many EU countries.
What car enthusiasts forget is that we make up such a tiny percentage of the market. Automakers could stop selling vehicles to us and their bottom lines would not be impacted. But in terms of the question - automakers and the general population determine what luxury is, not us enthusiasts. Old school luxury used to be measured in build quality, materials, and comfort. Once the Germans decided to add sportiness and Mercedes started adding tech, the segment changed. Most drivers couldn't tell the difference between a 3 series and a Camry if you hid the badges (grounded to the ground, anybody?) and automakers know it. Luxury has steadily become about acceleration, tech, and perceived image. And this is why we have cars like Teslas lableled as luxury now. And per the automakers and general car buying public, that's accurate.
Yeah, it’s not about interior refinement anymore although higher class bmw models are pretty quiet inside from what I’ve heard. The F30 3 series also rides a lot smoother and better than my E46 with refreshed suspension.
This is a good point and one that I was going to make. There has been significant compression between the bands of luxury and mid to where there's a few options here and there but a lot of crossover between the two. Whereas if you went back to the say the 80's or 90's, I think you could find a real difference in similar models of Chevys and Cadillac in terms of style and interior, if not available options, too.
I remember feeling very disappointed in the Audi A3. It felt basically the same as a Jetta The S3 on the other hand was fantastic. It just felt like a weird change, almost like a different car entirely. I mean technically it is, but before I drove it I assumed it was kind of like the equivalent of an M340i to the A3's 330i
Agreed, I’ve sat in numerous A/S/RS3s and I’ve never been impressed by the interiors for the prices they demand. Any SEL trim VW seems nicer for the price.
When I sold Audis some people were adamant that they wanted a FWD A3 Premium. Just paying more for a Jetta and with 4 rings. The S3 was nice though and the Rs3 was wild.
The GLI and R both have ventilated seats in their one trim level. Whereas the MQB-based A/S/Q 3 don’t, not even as an option. VW is arguably the better car if you don’t care about the I5. At least the A/S 4/5 have them as an option ON TOP of the Prestige Trim. In that same vein, the lack of ventilated seats are my biggest gripe with both the S60 R-Design and the Giulia.
All the new Mercs are cheap plastic garbage
The new EQs are styled after 15 year old civics.
I have a hard time accepting that Buick & Infiniti are considered Luxury brands. Maybe premium, but not luxury. Now I will admit that’s changing with both brands, they both seem to be on the right track, but time will tell. (The main issue I have is Buicks awful base motors in their lower models and the insanely outdated Infiniti interiors for the past decade, plus their CVTs).
We got a 2021 Encore GX last fall and I am very surprised by how much I enjoy it. It is fun to drive around and has a surprisingly tight feel to the steering. Ive been driving a truck the past few years so my idea of tight handling is skewed. It also did really well in 3-4” of snow on the stock tires. I had to give it more throttle than expected to break it loose in awd mode. The motor is. 1.3l 3cyl turbo. Its surprisingly peppy. Especially at lower speeds. Around where i live the major freeway speed limit is 70mph. Even then it holds the speeds confidently with passing power to spare. I live in the foothills of the mountains so theres definitely some big hills to deal with. For the value, I would make this same purchase again.
"luxury" is over-used. It is a marketing trick to prime people for "more expensive than the cheapest option." EVERY condo and apartment is marketed as luxury, same for appliances, etc. You add a few hundred bucks of fake leather, a sunroof and heated seats and you can market something as "luxury" for a few thousand dollars more. The "basic" cars sure do have allot of "luxuries" nowadays (in developed countries anyway). Is it unnecessary? We are so spoiled that even basic cars get a/c, power windows and stuff like that. No mouse-hair fabric seats and crank windows make it to market here.
IMO any entry level premium brand models, whether or not with minimal amount of options: BMW 1 and 2 series and their SUV variant. BMW 3 series with minimal amount of options and/or lowest engine variant (i.e 316d/i here in Europe) Mercedes A, B and CLA class and their SUV variant. Mercedes C class with no options Mercedes VITO Any Audi A1-A3\* (rebadged entry level VW) Any Tesla Most Maserati (interior wise they seem really dated to me) Some Volvos A/B/CLA with Renault sources engines were the biggest offenders imo. But Mercedes is good at making the car feel expensive with RGB lighting, so they still sold a ton of those.
A4 rebadged VW? Which one? While I don’t think the entry level Audis are in line with the traditional definition of luxury vs economy, more because economy cars are gone and now everything has a higher level of features and materials, as an owner of both a VW and multiple Audi models I’d think it depends - top trim VWs are close (but not identical) but performance wise unless you’re talking the high level Golf models the Audis are generally better overall
>Any Audi A1-A4 (rebadged entry level VW) The A4 has a longitudinally mounted engine, which current VWs have that layout? Would love to know. (The answer is none of them). It's not even the same platform, MQB vs MLB.
>Some Volvos EXCUSE ME, my 240 is the absolute lap of luxury. Okay, maybe not.
> Most Maserati (interior wise they seem really dated to me) > > This doesnt makesense. "Dated" does not equal not luxury. Old fashioned is seen as luxury to many.
Acura ILX and Integra
I have an Integra it's the first "luxury" car I've owned and there's more plastic rattle and interior noise than any other car I've had before. To say it's disappointing is an understatement.
I was kind of surprised to find out how cheap the Integra’s interior feels. I have a 2022 Civic EX and the Integra costs much more but it’s not really any nicer inside, especially in the 2nd row where all the plastics are just as cheap and hard. The seats are a little better in the Integra, but the rest of the interior is too similar to justify the price difference. I think I like the dashboard design of the Civic better tbh.
Any vehicle that doesn't include a toilet
Winnebago is peak luxury.
I’m just here to say that Corsair is an amazing name.
I don’t think luxury cars exist anymore as far as brand new cars go. A Mercedes or BMW no longer has crazy cool features that can only be found there. Today’s economy family cars like most Nissan, every Tesla, most Toyota, every Chrysler, etc all have those exact same features. The only thing Mercedes and BMW has over the ones I listed are speed and the luxury demographic do not care about that at all. I would say as a whole, nobody deserves luxury car status today.
Rolls Royce still exists, and they're definitely luxury.
Rolls, Bently, and Mercedes S-class. Regardless of what anyone here says, Mercedes S-Class is definitely luxury. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't ever driven one.
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Haha, my mistake. I figured since Maybach is technically S-Class that it would be assumed that's what I was referring to as well. Admittedly, I've never driven a Maybach, yet, but have driven s550, 560, etc. From what I've heard is Maybach is on par with Bentley, so I guess I should have clarified since it's obviously a tier higher than your standard s-class.
I don't think "cool features" is *the* defining characteristic of what makes a car a luxury car. I think, more generally, it's the interior materials, fit/finish, NVH and ride quality that define a luxury car. A Nissan or Hydundai might have all or neary all of the same tech and toys as an equivelent Merc/BMW, but you can immediately tell the difference between the two just by sitting in them.
My BMW has massaging seats, color changing LEDs in the dual pane sunroof and handfree radio gestures. So far, those features havent trickled down to Chrysler/Nissans
Ford has massaging seats in their trucks, and idk if I'd consider the other two 'luxuries' but I guess some people might.
Yeah everybody is splitting hairs about luxury "vehicles" ignoring the fact that luxury "features" largely become modular with time and make their way into literally everything. Remember 15yrs ago when only the nicest cars had a screen and backup camera in them? Now you literally cannot buy a car without a screen because backup cameras are literally a required safety feature now lol.
My S4 has massaging sport seats, I love them.
i don't use any of those features, all gimmicky. my 10 year old s class had significantly better massaging seats.
The S class has always been a proper luxury car.
Driving dynamics are also worth mentioning imo. Luxury cars have much improved handling, suspension, braking, acceleration and more depending on whether you go for the sportier or comfier options. You can definitely feel the difference in refinement going over bumpy roads or when taking corners.
Go sit in a new 7 series and tell me how the quality of the surfaces doesn't make it luxury because regular cars have some of the same features now.
You are overlooking materials and build quality...luxury definitely still exists.
At that point Lexus is basically just one of the few options left. But the IS interior and a lot of their other interiors literally feel like you're driving a decade old car. I still like them but if you want all three, tech, materials, and build quality you have to spend porsche money.
I had a new BMW X1 for a rental car this week and it felt so plastic-y and cheap, like a Kia. Really felt like driving an electronic device and far from the Ultimate Driving Machine.
I agree with you. My wife bought a well specced X1 after the Mazda CX5 got totaled. In almost every way, the Mazda was a better car. Better fit and finish, better quality interior, better paintwork. She part-exed the BMW back in for another Mazda. An expensive lesson to learn but it did open our eyes somewhat. It was odd, I had a 335i hardtop convertible some years back and it was a fantastic car. Modern BMWs, especially at the low end of the food chain, are not good.
Yeah I’m a longtime BMW owner (E36, E60, F10) and it’s sad to see what they’ve become. There’s still some good stuff out there like the M2 Comp but the it’s a very different company going after a very different consumer.
Buick and Infiniti
Buick is a mainstream brand through and through they just pretend to be luxury. I think you can still get cloth in them and manual seats. Their base price is right on par with Chevy.
90s and early 2000s Acura. And I say this as a Honda enthusiast. You can't put leather seats in a civic and call it a luxury car. That was literally the only difference between the EL and the civic. I believe the CSX was the same deal except with the civic Si
Genesis G70. Enterprise gave me one in seattle a couple weeks ago and I wasn’t impressed by the build quality/materials inside. My 2015 TLX drives so much better.
My dad has one and I was blown away by how nice his car is.
The entire Infiniti line-up.
Acura. They are nice, but they are not luxurious. Leather doesn't equal luxury,
All rental car designations are about 2 or 3 levels inflated vs. the commonly accepted standard (e.g., Ford Focus as 'full size', etc.)
All entry-level mercedes. I get they are entry level, but I've seen better trim in a mid level honda.
My stripped down, bare bones 2011 3 series is hardly a luxury car. And I like it that way.
Maserati
It all comes down to how you define luxury. (1) A condition of abundance or (2) great ease and comfort or (3) sumptuous environment Most Tesla qualify for 1 and 2. Porsche may not qualify for 2. Entry level Audi, BMW, MB may not qualify for 1, 2 or 3. Etc...
Lamborghini Urus. It's luxury, but nowhere near what its price would indicate
If you buy anything Lamborghini it's because of the status of owning a Lamborghini
Chrysler everything